Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

The words do not have to be perfect.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

Nothing worth doing is easy.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

You are here: Home / Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Sunday Morning Open Thread: Yes, We Did

Sunday Morning Open Thread: Yes, We Did

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168Comments

  4. 4.

    John S.

    It was nice to see the FTFNYT out there this morning already trying to drive a wedge and sow dissent with a sensational interview of AOC shitting all over the Democratic Party. I guess old habits die hard for a gangrenous leech sucking on the soul of America.

    Anyway — America, FUCK YEAH!

    Biden had an amazing and pitch perfect speech last night. He’s starting off on the right foot, and the contrast with the orange shitstain couldn’t be more clear.

  8. 8.

    Cervantes

    @John S.: Really? I thought AOC’s interview was highly constructive. Here’s a money quote:

    So I need my colleagues to understand that we are not the enemy. And that their base is not the enemy. That the Movement for Black Lives is not the enemy, that Medicare for all is not the enemy. This isn’t even just about winning an argument. It’s that if they keep going after the wrong thing, I mean, they’re just setting up their own obsolescence.

  12. 12.

    zhena gogolia

    @Cervantes:

    So sick of being lectured to by her.

    She’s been shitting on the Lincoln Project people, who did a hell of a lot more for this campaign than she did.

  13. 13.

    John S.

    @Cervantes: My comments referred to how the interview was being framed, not the contents of the interview itself. Although to be honest, while I don’t think some of what AOC said was wildly off mark in some instances, she really should have known better than to be the unwitting plaything of the FTFNYT.

    ETA: She’s supposed to be smarter and more media savvy than to feed the “Democrats in Disarray” narrative.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    @Cervantes:

    Who is she talking about? The only Dem I saw in the news was Abigail Spanburger who criticized Defund the Police IIRC.

    I think some other folks said we have no shot at the GA senate seat if the race turns on those progressive issues, which just seems like good advice until Jan 5 runoffs.  That’s not making anyone the enemy.

  15. 15.

    Nicole

    It’s so good to wake up and think that everything is possible again.

    I  cannot WAIT to start writing postcards for Georgia’s Senate races.

  17. 17.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Question: If Trump pardons everyone else and then resigns so Pence can pardon him, Pence, not Biden, would then be the 46th president. So here’s my great concern: Is Biden going to have to change all his stationery order?

  23. 23.

    raven

     

     

    @OzarkHillbilly:

     

    Unless you were here last night for Adam’s thread

     

    “’ll be back tomorrow to harsh everyone’s mellow and explain why the next 74 days will be the most dangerous days the US has ever faced. “

  24. 24.

    Calouste

    @John S.: AOC could have waited until after the Georgia runoffs with giving that interview that criticizes her own party, and not the day after the Presidential election was called. because if we lose those, we’re sure as hell not going to get the progressive nominations she wants. Own goal there really.

    And with those two seats in Georgia still to be won, this election isn’t over yet, no need to start talking about 2022. Eyes on the prize.

  25. 25.

    John S.

    @OzarkHillbilly: I sure hope that’s not the case, but given the nature of the Democratic Party, it may be all but inevitable. Gonna try my best not to hang on a few early outbursts as a sign of things to come.

    I want to savor the victory as long as I can until Jan 20 when Cheeto Benito’s humiliation is complete.

  28. 28.

    germy

    @John S.:

    For the last 4 years, Trump bullied and humiliated his staff in meetings. Now that he’s lost, they’re turning on him. “Why put up with it anymore?” one outside WH adviser said.

    — Gabriel Sherman (@gabrielsherman) November 7, 2020

  30. 30.

    Tony Jay

    Executive orders. Tons of them. Let the gish-gallop technique serve the forces of good for a change. So many restorations that the Ameriklanists can’t coordinate their responses properly. High-profile the reversals of Trump orders to force the GOP to side with the Squashed Pumpkin. Stamp the bad guys with the obstructionist label right out of the gate.

    Meanwhile behind the scenes all the real work is being done on the legislative agenda that awaits in January regardless of what happens in Georgia. Non-stop hits, keep the pressure on and increasing right up until 2022.

    The Hope & Change 2: Elected To Work For You barrage should contrast beautifully with the remorseless slowgrind of state level legal action exposing Republican crimes and the federal response to the evidence of treason they’ll inevitably unearth.

    Someone needs to corner the market in low-fat popcorn futures stat. It’s going to be a gorgefest.

  31. 31.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I stopped looking at Trump’s tweets months ago, but I peeked this morning. He hasn’t sent any in 15 hours. The tranquilizer dart must have worked.

    I love seeing how he’s mostly being ignored.

  33. 33.

    germy

    @John S.:

    Two Republicans close to Trump said west wing is growing exasperated with Trump’s denialism. “It’s over. Some are waking up from the spell,” one source said. “Trump staff might remove him themselves.”

    — Gabriel Sherman (@gabrielsherman) November 7, 2020

  34. 34.

    germy

    Per source, lot of west wing anger at Jared right now over how embarrassing Trump’s legal fight has so far been. “Jared is running everything and it’s a disaster!”

    — Gabriel Sherman (@gabrielsherman) November 7, 2020

  37. 37.

    cmorenc

    It’s not just how great since yesterday having good people in Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as the focus of the country, but having Trump so abruptly cast into the background, fading out with impotent yelps.  How wonderful having our kids regularly exposed to such positive role models of what we hope they can be like, rather than a preening, lying self-absorbed jackass.

  39. 39.

    John S.

    @Calouste: My thoughts exactly. Look, I don’t dislike AOC — I think she’s smart and I agree with many of her positions. But her passion often overrides any chance for her wisdom or logic to prevail. This is something I understand all too well looking at myself in my 20s vs. now in my 40s.

    Less Veruca Salt vibe and more John Lewis vibe would serve her well.

  41. 41.

    Elizabelle

    Was out early to pick up the Sunday editions of the WaPost and the FTF NY Times. They each proclaim loudly: Biden Defeats Trump, and Biden Beats Trump, respectively.

    We have gorgeous warm fall weather in central VA. Going to enjoy the rest of our lives, as we dig out from under the Trump occupation.

    Haven’t read it, but a Mary Trump article in The Guardian:

    Mary Trump on the end of Uncle Donald: all he has now is breaking things

    The president will be having ‘meltdowns upon meltdowns’, according to his niece, who sees poetic justice in the lies and cheating now coming back to bite him

  42. 42.

    Chyron HR

    @Cervantes:

    So I need my colleagues to understand that […] the Movement for Black Lives is not the enemy

    AOC appears to be confused:  DA STABBISHMENT are the ones who support BLM.  The Sunshine Justice Squad are the ones who booed BLM speakers at the 2016 convention.

  46. 46.

    germy

    @debbie:

    There’s only so much we can do for Jared.  He needs a better work ethic.  Maybe he lacks one because his father was in jail?

  47. 47.

    different-church-lady

    @germy:

    “Jared is running everything and it’s a disaster!”

    BLUE STATE HOSPITALS: “You’re telling us?“

  50. 50.

    Baud

    Now that we’ve accomplished our goal of defeating Trump, I’m going to try to start moving mentally into “qué será será” mode.

  52. 52.

    John S.

    @cmorenc: My 10 year old daughter and her friends are absolutely thrilled that Biden won. And the fact that a non-white woman is VP is not lost on them either. I am absolutely delighted she will enter her teenage years without the malignancy of Trump in the White House.

    My 13 year old son is autistic, and completely oblivious to all this politics nonsense. How we all envy him!

  55. 55.

    different-church-lady

    @germy: That’s one of the reasons this feels more like he’s been deposed instead of defeated: when the strong man shows weakness, suddenly all the lickspittles turn on a dime.

  58. 58.

    John S.

    @Immanentize: Really? Because that circular firing squad seems to work in both directions (hence the metaphor) given the FTFNYT article we have been discussing. Gonna be a bumpy first 2 years of a Biden administration if we can’t at least be honest with each other.

  59. 59.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    I would love to have been in the room when Twitler saw Bibi’s congratulations to Joe and Kamala.

  60. 60.

    mad citizen

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Haven’t looked at his tweets in a week.  Last time I was there I was doing some replies with “Flush the turd November 3rd” in English then thought to do it in Spanish.  Also did some replies calling him a “mashed potato head loser” (per Mary Trump story in her book

     

    Appreciate the Four Seasons Landscaping thread.  I think that one could grow into a movie.

  66. 66.

    germy

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Don, Jr. and Eric are flailing, spreading conspiracy theories, insisting their father was cheated.  Ivanka is maintaining a dignified silence.  When she tweeted close to the election, it almost sounded like she was trying to sound presidential herself.

  67. 67.

    p.a.

    Bizarre molten planet discovered with lava ocean, supersonic winds [NBC]
    Well tRumpturds are ‘threatening’ to leave the country, and since the orange idiot’s covid ‘response’ failure means nowhere else on earth is emigratable, …

  68. 68.

    germy

    ABC anchor just quoted an angry Ari Fleischer tweet at Biden’s campaign co-chair.

    She’s responding that we should all come together as one nation.

  70. 70.

    Salty Sam

    @John S.: FTFNYT out there this morning already trying to drive a wedge and sow dissent with a sensational interview of AOC shitting all over the Democratic Party.

    Clicking around the intertoobz, I’m seeing WAY too many calls for progressives to temper their hopes and expectations, and for Joe to reach across the aisle and find common ground with McConnell.

    WHERE THE FUCK HAVE THESE PEOPLE BEEN FOR THE LAST TWELVE YEARS!?!?

    AOC pointed out that those who embraced and ran on progressive ideals all kept their seats, while those that played the “safe” center lane got booted.  WTF does that tell you pundits!?!

    Jeezus these people- already harshed my buzz from yesterday’s victory lap…

  73. 73.

    schrodingers_cat

    BTW did you guys notice Biden’s well cut suit yesterday he looked dapper. Quite a change from a President whose suits look like garbage bags with red ties.

  80. 80.

    TS (the original)

    @WaterGirl:

    I would like to see some names. Seems they are still “sources”. Until they come forward & identify themselves – it’s all make believe.

  84. 84.

    WaterGirl

    We can’t control what AOC or Chuck Schumer or The Squad or anyone else says.

    Can we – in our little microcosm here at BJ – accomplish what we are asking them to do?  Not slag on our party, anywhere from AOC to Joe Manchin?

    Because if we can’t do here, in our own little world, how can we expect them to do it?

  86. 86.

    debbie

    @Scout211:

    Chapelle’s monologue was genius!!! Even more genius than his monologue after the 2016 election!!!

    Here, the show started 45 minutes late because of fucking football (it was nice seeing Clemson lose), so I didn’t last past the monologue, but I’m already looking forward to it being rerun.

  87. 87.

    germy

    @WaterGirl:

    Excellent point.

    I’m cheering myself by reading about all the work and preparation Biden and his team have done.  His spokespeople are great on TV.  I like what I see on his website.

    My guilty pleasure is reading about the tension and feuds within the outgoing Trump administration.

  89. 89.

    Calouste

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes, a very nicely tailored suit, same as Obama. Republicans seem to have crappy tailors. Of course there’s the shitgibbon, but I saw a picture yesterday of Giuliani in front of the landscaping company in a badly fitting suit, and even Paul Ryan, who as a fit man in his forties should not pose a challenge for a tailor always looked like he was wearing a jacket two sizes too large.

  93. 93.

    MagdaInBlack

    @schrodingers_cat: I noticed. I also noticed that he actually knows how to hold a baby. And likes doing it

    Eta: I’m recalling the one picture of trumples holding a baby as if its a foreign object.

  95. 95.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    Good!

     

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Did you see where Trump was on a phone call with Bibi (surrounded by cameras) and tried to lead Bibi to badmouth “Sleepy Joe”? Bibi didn’t bite, proof the Trump-friendly part of the world was already abandoning him.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Salty Sam:

    AOC pointed out that those who embraced and ran on progressive ideals all kept their seats, while those that played the “safe” center lane got booted.  WTF does that tell you pundits!?!

    That the progressives were running from deep-blue districts, and the safe-center-lane people were running from precarious purple districts. In what seems to have been a weakly Republican year in the House, some of the centrists districts flipped, whereas in a real blue wave like 2018 you’d have seen more centrists seated.

    It’s what statisticians call the Will Rogers phenomenon : when districts flip from Democratic to Republican, it actually tends to move both sets of districts individually to the left. (Though it’s also reminiscent of the other Will Rogers phenomenon about being part of no organized political party.)

  98. 98.

    rikyrah

    Good Morning, Everyone ???

    I usually wake up and can’t get back to sleep.

     

    I woke up last night, but after drinking some water, I went back to sleep ??

     

    Yes ?

  100. 100.

    Tony Jay

    It will surprise no one that the Guardian continues its deliberate descent into Britain’s version of ‘even the Liberal NYT’ by jumping right onto the same “Democrat Civil-War” bandwagon. It’s what they do.

    Bunch of pricks. That is all.

  102. 102.

    John S.

    @rikyrah: You deserve a good nights sleep after 4 years of nail biting. And as our new president made clear, he owes a lot to black women and he will not forget who had his back — and he will always have yours. ?

  106. 106.

    NotMax

    One modern tradition I heartily hope Dolt 45 eschews is that of leaving a letter for his successor in whatever desk is in the Oval Office when leaving.

    The one Obama left.

    One cringes contemplating what would be in a letter* left by the current occupant.

    *More likely a Post-It.

  107. 107.

    PPCLI

    @germy: Well, he is surrounded with people like Donald Trump, Jason Miller, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, ….

    You know, children with several different mothers, credible accusations of partner abuse, sometimes failure to pay child support, constant lawbreaking,….

    His father is a felon.

    Frankly, people like Jared aren’t going to be able to contribute positively to society until there is a change in their culture.

  110. 110.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: It is really really good.  People want to be rubbed the wrong way.  How many people here said how many times that we need to listen to black women?

    If the party believes after 94 percent of Detroit went to Biden, after Black organizers just doubled and tripled turnout down in Georgia, after so many people organized Philadelphia, the signal from the Democratic Party is that John Kasichs won us this election? I mean, I can’t even describe how dangerous that is.

    The whole interview is great.

  112. 112.

    Immanentize

    @Salty Sam: Added — look at Katie Porter. Who everybody seems to want to rule the world -+ she took an R+3 district and this time around won by 9!  She did it by being openly progressive. By explaining her positiond and working her district.  We love her!  But she is white….

  114. 114.

    Ken

    @Baud: We’ll make Pence 45½.

    We could give him a title instead of a number. There’s precedent with John Hurt’s War Doctor.  Maybe “the Pardon President”, since that’s very likely to be the only reason he gets the office.

  116. 116.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    If the party believes

    If I had read it, this is the part that would me the wrong way.  Who is the “party” here that purports to believe that? It’s line when Republicans say that “liberal Democrats” support some bad thing hey don’t actually support.

    I think it’s important for all sides of our coalition to name names and be specific when they’re offering criticisms, rather than referring to abstract faceless entities.  Even at BJ, it’s something we should move away from IMHO.

  117. 117.

    Ken

    Let’s not get too confident, though. The Trump team’s legal challenges start Monday. Rudy Giuliani is spearheading the case in Georgia and already has his tickets for Tbilisi.

    (Original with me, as far as I know. Also reposted since I accidentally put it in the latenight open thread.)

  118. 118.

    germy

    So Sophia Loren is in a new movie on Netflix.  I had no idea.

    She’s being interviewed right now on CBS.

  119. 119.

    Elizabelle

    WRT the incumbent:  I suspect the authorities in New York and several other places are keeping a sharp eye on Trump, so that he cannot flee the country.  All he would have to do is head to his golf resort in Scotland — as he’d planned to do after Election Night in 2016 but — surprise!  And then on to a country with a non-extradition treaty.

    Trump needs to stay in this country and face justice, or what passes for it at this late stage in his career.

    I rather hope that he is arrested immediately, arraigned, and that his passport is lifted.  Perhaps also an incredibly high bond set — he’s a billionaire, right?  That’s what he always tells us.

    Politico, from late October.  Author is Brig General (Retired) Peter B. Zwack:
    Is President Donald Trump a Flight Risk?

    Yes, this sounds like a B-grade spy novel. But consider the evidence.

  121. 121.

    Bostondreams

    @Salty Sam:

    the issue is looking at the data, there is a massive split between Biden and egg congressional candidates. Millions voted FOR Joe and AGAINST the Democratic congressional candidate. This does suggest that in a place like Georgia, going all left may backfire in the Senate races.

  122. 122.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Baud: I am highly disappointed in Spanburger as I feel she lashed out in panic.  She won by a greater margin (not much but still) than she did in 2018.  But her votes came in late from the mail-in ballots.  Let’s hope she’ll calm down, otherwise, she’s not long for Congress.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    @Immanentize: I’m not interested in the article. I was responding to your selected quote from the article in response to other people here criticizing what she said.  I tried to explain why I could see their point of view from the quote you excerpted.  Now I’m going to take WaterGirl’s advice and end this conversation.

  125. 125.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Immanentize: who is saying John Kasich won us this election? I saw Herself trying to give Rashida Tlaib credit for Michigan, which was news to a whole lot of people on the ground

    Who says BLM is “the enemy”. A whole lot of people said “Defund the police” is a stupid slogan. And it is. If AOC (!) wants to conflate the two, she can. I don’t agree. And I don’t think it’s smart.

    Who said “M4A” is the enemy? Probably nobody, cause it doesn’t make any sense. It’s a losing political position, unpopular with most voters, and not the only or the best path to expanding health care.

    Let’s get to her “their base is not the enemy”. I know she thinks she speaks for the base of the party. 1) She doesn’t. She may somehow not have noticed that her wing of the party actually isn’t “the base”. Her candidate, the candidate of what she calls “their base”– notably, not “our” base–  lost. Badly. And (2) more importantly, and I can’t fucking believe this still has to be pointed out: There is not one “base” in the Democratic Party. It’s a broad coalition, and taking to the NYT (at least her third public, and stupid, attack on what is ostensibly her party in the last 10 days) to attack big parts of that coalition, the day after the fucking national election is decided, is stupid. It’s destructive. It’s narcissistic.

  127. 127.

    J R in WV

    @schrodingers_cat:

    ETA: BTW did you guys notice Biden’s well cut suit yesterday he looked dapper. Quite a change from a President whose suits look like garbage bags with red ties.

     

    They both looked great! Kamala’s white suit fit the occasion perfectly, as did Joe’s. And the speeches were also pretty sweet, too!

    I slept well, and when I woke to make a bathroom trip, I was calm and went right back to sleep. A blessing!

  128. 128.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize:

    The election was only called for Biden yesterday.  Do we know when ACO was interviewed?

    My question is this: In the article, is AOC accusing the party of already doing that, or is she counseling the party not to go in that direction.

    No, I have not read the article yet.  I only get so many a month and don’t want to spend one on that if she is accusing the party of doing that.

  130. 130.

    Mary G

    I think Americans don’t fully trust either party and did quite a bit of ticket-splitting because Twitler yanked things so far into the right ditch that they fear giving everything to the Democrats who might drag them all the way across the highway into the left ditch. Nancy SMASH let everybody get too emotional during the conference call and leak it. It’s understandable because we lost so many races below president that polls had led us to believe were in the bag. They didn’t even know for sure that Biden would pull it out at the time. It has to have been so stressful and disappointing. Hopefully Biden will tell everybody to knock it off, and that the party needs to model the unity he’s selling and keep the inter party fights out of the press. Fight Republicans!

  131. 131.

    Elizabelle

    @WaterGirl:  Emailing you the text of the AOC interview in the FTF NY Times.

    ”  … on Saturday, in a nearly hourlong interview shortly after President-elect Biden was declared the winner, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez made clear the divisions within the party that animated the primary still exist. … ”

    Reading it now.  And the Times did edit it, in publishing it.

  132. 132.

    artem1s

    @Immanentize:

    the signal from the Democratic Party is that John Kasichs won us this election?

    who the fuck in the Democratic Party is signaling that Kasich won the election?  that right there is unmitigated bullshit and she should be ashamed of saying it.  Biden trying to calm down the tone to keep Trump supporters from tearing up polling places is not signaling that Kasich won the election. The only persons signaling that yesterday was that self absorbed asshole Kasich himself.  BTW, I think the Biden campaign noticed how spectacularly poorly Kasich did to help bring in the vote in OH.

  133. 133.

    Tony Jay

    @Baud:

    Everybody has a business model. IMHO for the Guardian it’s to pose as the ‘newspaper of the liberal centre-left’ while actually gearing their editorial stance towards keeping the opposition to right-wing governments divided. They sell more subscriptions to their target demographic by attacking right-wing government from the left than they would attacking left-wing government from the right, and editorialise accordingly.

    In their American coverage they eulogise the left-wing of the Democratic Party (they loved them some Bernie) to store up cred with the paper’s target demographic, while taking a completely opposite tack in its domestic coverage. Though should the (for the sake of brevity) ‘progressive wing’ of the Dems ever take over the Party they’d switch effortlessly to pumping up the ‘sensible moderation’ and ‘centrist sex-appeal’ of the likes of Seth Moulton. They’re all about promoting contrarian discord on the centre-left, and any tool will do.

    I fully understand that I may be seen as biased in my opinion, because I am. Doesn’t mean I’m wrong, though.

  134. 134.

    Tony Jay

    @John S.:

    The list of Guardian columnists and shitty journalists who can and will slide slowly down impaling poles should I ever achieve complete mastery over the Realms of Men is long and entirely fair.

  135. 135.

    gwangung

    Humph.

    There are MULTIPLE bases for the Democratic Party. And ALL of them are important because there are so many. That includes centrists/moderates. That includes progressives.

    And we ALL have to get along. Destroy the Republicans FIRST.

    And as for Georgia…well, you know there are a lot folks there who DO like progressive ideas and, more importantly, the politicians who support them…..

    Figure it out, folks. But time waits for no one….

  138. 138.

    Steeplejack

    That RTÉ clip really hits me. So great to have a president who has even heard of Seamus Heaney, much less read and appreciated him.

  139. 139.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    So I guess everybody is feeling a little better today?

    For the first time in four years — four years to the day, actually — I slept deeply for almost eight hours, and woke feeling refreshed rather than the sluggy feeling I’ve had most mornings.

    So the answer to your question is Yes. And I assume the same is true of you, since I’m not seeing Blech anywhere in your comment.

  140. 140.

    Tony Jay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    They’re transparent. Don’t ever bother trying to mention it in their comments section, though. When it comes to questioning the honesty or accuracy of their reporting they have a stricter moderation policy than the Chinese Communist Party.

    Devoid of bias my ample arse.

    Congratulations on the Election victory, btw. You guys did good. Bask in the envy of those who didn’t get the job done. ;-)

  144. 144.

    piratedan

    I would just like to say a couple of small things about the AOC/NYT stuff…

    1. haven’t read the article, do not intend to
    2. the NYT is a bad faith actor who does a wonderfully surreptitious job of placing GOP framing into a LOT of things that they do
    3. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is a savvy person, but even savvy people get played.
    4. It’s okay to have disagreements with people in your own party, I have no quarrels with people putting down a marker and standing up for what they believe in, but as many people have noted, who she represents in NYC doesn’t equate with lets say the proud folks of Las Cruces NM.  Same country, different interests.
  147. 147.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @piratedan: It’s okay to have disagreements with people in your own party, I have no quarrels with people putting down a marker and standing up for what they believe in, but as many people have noted, who she represents in NYC doesn’t equate with lets say the proud folks of Las Cruces NM. Same country, different interests.

    This.  I would also note that the Lincoln Project people may have been our allies in getting rid of Trump, but most of them are still conservatives.  They are largely W’s people.  Remember his administration? I don’t want them anywhere near policy making in the Biden Administration.

  149. 149.

    germy

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    “Jaime Harrison started to plateau when ‘Defund the Police’ showed up … on TV right across his head.”

    Biden was smart enough to avoid that trap, although Trump and his surrogates accused him of it anyway.

    And in my local races, every Democratic incumbent and challenger was labeled with the Defund The Police banner. Even when they came right out and said they had no intention of trying to defund the police.

  150. 150.

    mad citizen

    @debbie: The SNL parts are available on YouTube.   Just watched the opening and Chappelle.   He loved his town on the Letterman Netflix show, but denigrated them on snl.  Not cool.

  155. 155.

    Mike in NC

    We took a long walk in our neighborhood this morning, a beautiful fall day. Most of the Trump signs are gone, but nearly half the houses still had those black-and-blue “Support our Police” ribbons on the mailboxes. Fuck ’em. I countered by putting out a dozen small actual American flags, the ones our fathers and grandfathers fought under against fascism in WW2.

  156. 156.

    Nobody in particular

    @John S.:

     

    According to Will Rogers, that is the default state of the Democrats. And not necessarily a bad thing. Haters gonna hate.

  160. 160.

    Sebastian

    @Cervantes:

    I thought the content to be good but what she did on Twitter was absolutely terrible.

    She kicked it off with a tonedeaf attack on Lincoln Project accusing them of failing miserably, telling them to take the L, and to give the money they received from their donors to grassroots organizations.

    Whoa.

    First, complete lack of grace and sportsmanship and inability to actually analyze a battlefield. There were more than 3 million votes for Biden that voted Republican downticket. Not saying LP is responsible for all that but they were singlehandedly responsible for multiple changes of public perception and changing talktracks in media. Not to mention the lift in morale.

    Second, I find it troubling how she picks a day of jubilation, where we congratulate each other after a hard battle, to drive wedges between allies. I am still not 100% convinced she is not an operative.

    Third, the audacity to lay claim to someone else’s money and funds is breathtaking and just confirms all cliches about socialists owning other people’s money. What LP does is between them and their donors. She alienated every single LP donor or supporter there.

    (I didn’t donate to LP but gave Meidas Touch a few times. I found her attempt to decide where we allocate our donations offensive.)

     

    I’ve had it with that gang. She is either too stupid too understand or ideologically too blind or too self centered or compromised.

    It is my opinion that Bernie and his gang of loose cannons cost us 2016. And they are working tirelessly to destroy the Democratic Party.

  163. 163.

    Bluesky

    @Salty Sam:

    AOC statement ignored one important fact – those who kept seats with progressive agenda ARE in progressive leaning districts. She shows lack of appreciation of others who represent a more conservative constituency. Many Americans do not like Trump but they voted for republican agendas because they are not ready to move far left. Her timing of this interview and criticism of her party is a gift to republican still working on overturning Biden Harris win.

  164. 164.

    H-Bob

    @Sebastian: Bernie is a Socialist who ran for the Democratic Presidential nomination, while AOC is Democratic Socialist who won the Democratic Congressional nomination. Their advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt – they’re not much different than the Republicans who advise the Democrats to adopt Republican positions.

  165. 165.

    Sebastian

    @Baud:

    Not so much the NYT interview where she brings up valid points like campaigns having absolutely no digital strategy ($0 spent on SM outreach), no canvassing, and spending all money on TV ads and consultants.

    The problem was her 36 hour Twitter binge attacking everyone. She has to be the bride at every wedding.

  167. 167.

    Sebastian

    @Immanentize:

    Yes it is and that’s what’s so frustrating about this.

    Instead of using the positive energy to celebrate and be gracious she went and attacked viciously on Twitter.

    I saw mild mannered middle aged moms ask her why they can’t decide for themselves what to do with their money.

    And then she doubled down. I have nothin’

  168. 168.

    Chris T.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  That would be a smart move. Trump isn’t smart. Evil, yes—an evil born of narcissism and pettiness—but not smart. The narcissism won’t let him do that.
    (I’m sure this thread is dead by now, but had the need to comment.)

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