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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: *Someone* Has to Be the Grown-Up…

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: *Someone* Has to Be the Grown-Up…

by Anne Laurie|  November 10, 20207:23 am| 238 Comments

This post is in: Biden-Harris 2020, GOP Death Cult, Open Threads

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Biden behaves as the incoming president, even as Trump balks at giving up power https://t.co/fSlWMz31TT

— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) November 10, 2020

Penned by the Liz Warren hate-stalker who was repurposed after the primaries to chew Biden’s ankles, so bring your own salt shaker. After all, Biden *is* the incoming president, however much the GOP and their media enablers may squall!

… Biden began taking calls from foreign leaders, speaking Monday with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. He also was weighing whom to appoint to top White House positions, with several of his longtime advisers expected to take senior roles. And he turned his attention to the coronavirus, dispatching a key aide to brief Senate Democrats this week and making a strong pitch to Americans of every ideology to follow public health recommendations…

“What President-elect Biden has to do is act like a winner, because he won,” said presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, who noted that Biden’s victory in the popular vote and the expected win in the electoral college are by unusually large margins. Still, given Trump’s recalcitrance, Brinkley said, it behooves Biden to be visible….

Some staffers not going to the White House immediately will help set up a presidential inaugural committee that will oversee the Jan. 20 transfer of power and associated festivities.

The pandemic raises the possibility that the traditional ceremonies, which draw thousands of supporters to the Mall, may have to be reimagined. The people with internal knowledge said it was possible that Rufus Gifford might chair the inaugural committee, though they were not aware of any final decisions. Gifford served as deputy campaign manager and has been a longtime Democratic fundraiser whom President Barack Obama tapped as ambassador to Denmark.

Holding the event safely amid the pandemic will be difficult, some Biden allies acknowledge, but they have said it’s important to preserve some sense of grandeur given Trump’s refusal to concede.

“It’s easier to scale back than scale up,” Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), who chairs the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.” He said that a “full-scale inauguration” is being planned.

Pretty sure there will be national, even global, celebrations on the day as well…

the people saying “give them a few days” just really haven’t been able to process a single fucking fact over the last four years. i just want to shirt these people against a wall and say “can you please just pay attention one time in your life” https://t.co/XUV4eVGElJ

— That's Game (@CalmSporting) November 9, 2020

A stopped clock is right once every day and if we are extremely lucky that clock is stopped at the exact time that Erick tweeted this https://t.co/1F60oYLSEL

— Zoomcock Archivist (@canderaid) November 8, 2020

if the electoral system does not work i see no reason to vote in the georgia runoffs in january. show the libs your contempt and stay home. https://t.co/cJONa9il4M

— That's Game (@CalmSporting) November 10, 2020

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Reader Interactions

238Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    November 10, 2020 at 7:26 am

    Re. Erickson’s tweet: We’re internalizing plenty ourselves, bub. Fair warning.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 7:28 am

    I hope Erick is correct, but GOP voters are a pretty focused group.

  3. 3.

    John S.

    November 10, 2020 at 7:32 am

    @debbie: Yes, we should all be internalizing that the Senate is within our reach. We can then wipe that smug look off Mitch McConnell’s face, and tell the fucking media to shut up, because Americans don’t really want divided and dysfunctional government — we prefer to actually get shit done.

  4. 4.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 7:37 am

    “It’s easier to scale back than scale up,” Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), who chairs the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.” He said that a “full-scale inauguration” is being planned.

    Given that letter in front of his name, is Blunt talking about an inauguration of Biden?

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    November 10, 2020 at 7:39 am

    Take a deep breath and let it out slowly. Feel calmer?

    Okay, Hamimaniacs, this one’s for you.

    ;)

  6. 6.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 7:39 am

    I’ve been sniffing at the headlines for any sign that the media are legitimizing Trump’s bullshit. Surprisingly, today the New York Times front page seems more vehement about calling it out than the Washington Post’s, and that headline up there was one of the things that bugged me (“Behaves as”?). But they’re basically holding firm.

  7. 7.

    debbie

    November 10, 2020 at 7:42 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    They’re all cutting those ridiculous press conferences of, so that’s something. I wonder how OAN is handling them?

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2020 at 7:42 am

    I hope smart and focused Democrats are studying Biden’s GA win and figuring out the message that would motivate voters to show up when Trump isn’t on the ballot. Pointing out that Loeffler and Perdue are brazen crooks who enriched themselves while lying to Americans about the pandemic and saying Warnock and Ossoff would look out for the interests of working people in GA seems like a good message to me. But I don’t understand voters. Hopefully someone who does is working on this. Abrams figured out how to counter the most outrageous attempts at suppression. Now two politicians have to figure out how to get people to show up for them.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 7:43 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Kasie Hunt on MJ basically said her sources say the GOP is playing politics and knows full well Biden will be the next president.  Sounds about right.

  10. 10.

    raven

    November 10, 2020 at 7:44 am

    @Betty Cracker: People in Athens are fired up bit that don’t mean much.

  11. 11.

    raven

    November 10, 2020 at 7:44 am

    @NotMax: Off to costco!

  12. 12.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 7:45 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, I’ve been wondering about why Biden didn’t have more coattails in GA.  Did he get a lot of crossover GOP votes there?  Did some people just vote president and not down ticket?

  13. 13.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 7:46 am

    @debbie: I have no great confidence that Rupert Murdoch will hold his position of acknowledging that Trump lost through the entire lame-duck period. That could go down the memory hole if the conservatives who are his main customers remain adamant and he starts to think he could actually make this scheme work by joining in.

  14. 14.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 7:47 am

    @Baud: That may well be true, as of November 10. Does it remain true if they keep saying the same thing for weeks? People can convince themselves of a lot.

  15. 15.

    raven

    November 10, 2020 at 7:48 am

    @Baud: What I hear is the republicans wanted him gone but, in now way, does that mean they’d vote for dems down ballot. That’s pretty obvious.

  16. 16.

    John S.

    November 10, 2020 at 7:49 am

    @Baud: Yes. One of the allegations of fraud coming from the Trump camp is that a lot of ballots only cast a vote for president, and nothing else.

    ETA: Which of course isn’t proof of fraud, but seems to indicate that plenty of folks held their nose to vote for Biden and couldn’t bear to vote for any other Democrats down ballot.

  17. 17.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 7:50 am

    @Baud: There were probably ticket-splitters. But among the various anomalies of the polls I find curious, one is that Trump typically polled AHEAD of downticket Republicans almost everywhere, yet he underperformed them. That’s one thing I really can’t explain by reference to the Trump phenomenon as a unique thing. It may be that very different groups of people were energized and one of them was just anti-Trump people who had no opinions about anyone else on the ballot.

  18. 18.

    NotMax

    November 10, 2020 at 7:50 am

    @raven

    Indulge thyself. And your better half five-eights too.

    ;)

    By coinkydink planning on doing my monthly run this very afternoon.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 7:54 am

    @raven:

    @John S.:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Thanks. Honestly, I wish we had better info on who came out and what they did.  All of the conversation is about Trump’s high turnout and inroads among Latinos, and then we have the ongoing moderate/progressive debate about what motivates voters.  We’re in an info vacuum.

  20. 20.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 7:56 am

    @John S.:

    No, it’s Democrats and it happens every cycle. Democrats often don’t vote down ballot. Democratic organizers have been complaining about it for 20 years. The same “sporadic” Democrats who only come out every four years for the presidential and don’t vote in midterms don’t vote down ballot.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 7:57 am

    @John S.:

    Which of course isn’t proof of fraud, but seems to indicate that plenty of folks held their nose to vote for Biden and couldn’t bear to vote for any other Democrats down ballot.

    Actually, I believe Kay has said that one of the problems with a lot of Dem voters is that they only vote for president and ignore other races. At least in Ohio.  So those could simply be no regular voters inspired to come out to defeat Trump.

    ETA: or what Kay said.

  22. 22.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 7:57 am

    @John S.: Right. It’s ridiculous to cite that as evidence of fraud–of course there are all sorts of people who vote that way! I don’t like it, but people whose interest in politics doesn’t extend beyond the Presidency are legion.

  23. 23.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 7:59 am

    @raven: Also, I think that it will end up that a bunch of people voted down ballot for Republicans, but left the presidential vote blank.

  24. 24.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 7:59 am

    @John S.:

    For Democrats, the reverse is probably true. Not only did they not “hold their nose” to vote for Biden, Biden (presidential race) is the only reason they came out.

  25. 25.

    Ken

    November 10, 2020 at 8:00 am

    The graph of trust in the electoral process gives some support to the idea that some independents are just Republicans who don’t want to call themselves that.

  26. 26.

    sanjeevs

    November 10, 2020 at 8:01 am

    somewhat unbelievably, there really is a hidden message congratulating Trump just about visible underneath the graphic Boris Johnson tweeted congratulating Biden on his win. I have no idea why Downing Street just didn’t start a new image, or why they are so bad at Photoshop

    https://mobile.twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1326120070821650432

  27. 27.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 8:02 am

    @Baud: It may be that the adjustments pollsters made to try to account for their misses in 2016 were the wrong adjustments for 2020. I got some impression from crosstabs that Trump’s relative advantage in 2016 among low-education, low-info voters wasn’t quite what was operating this time–Trump became respectable and the Trumpsters are higher-education now.

  28. 28.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 10, 2020 at 8:03 am

    Repeating from yesterday afternoon, the latest post on my blog is by WereBear, who wrote about those six (weird) tricks to overcome writer’s block. Check it out.

  29. 29.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2020 at 8:04 am

    @raven:

    What I hear is the republicans wanted him gone but, in now way, does that mean they’d vote for dems down ballot. That’s pretty obvious.

     
    I agree. We need NEW voters and that must be the focus. The Lincoln Project is a lifeboat for media, but did they budge any voters? I’m not seeing much that says they did.

  30. 30.

    LurkerNoLonger

    November 10, 2020 at 8:06 am

    Via NBC News: They’re not going along with Barr’s shit:

    DOJ’s election crimes chief resigns after Barr allows prosecutors to probe voter fraud claims

    https://apple.news/AhCS1QvW6TVq_o7glnKyP7w

  31. 31.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 8:07 am

    @WereBear: Great post at DAW’S!

    Also, I think the LP got a bunch of Republican voters to not vote for Trump, rather than to vote for Biden.

  32. 32.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 10, 2020 at 8:10 am

    This crap is why after Trump loses, we can’t just declare bygones and move on. That only works if the offender has learned a lesson. I see no sign of a lesson learned.

  33. 33.

    PsiFighter37

    November 10, 2020 at 8:10 am

    @Baud:  These clowns don’t realize that “playing politics” shouldn’t be conflated with “destroying democratic norms”.

  34. 34.

    gene108

    November 10, 2020 at 8:11 am

    @Baud:

    For all the flaws of the Republican base, their redeeming quality is they always show up to vote.

    I doubt this changes.

  35. 35.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 10, 2020 at 8:12 am

    @NotMax: That was fun. :-)

  36. 36.

    Ramiah Ariya

    November 10, 2020 at 8:12 am

    I wrote this in FB today, about the lesson Trump’s era holds for the rest of the world:
    For a long time, there has been a fantasy that people outside of politics, people who have no experience with government can lead a nation/state. A hatred for professional politicians is prevalent throughout India.
    The United States carried out that experiment for us all – having a guy who had no political experience (including as an activist) as a leader. It has resulted in disaster for the nation and the world.
    To be a professional politician, of course, means there is corruption. But it also means someone who takes defeat in their stride; someone who forms alliances irrespective of deep differences.
    We all thought these characteristics as sign of moral corruption, but it is clear that these people are just professionals, and that politics is, actually, a profession. To be a politician is to have a thick skin.
    Trump had none of these, and he is unable to leave power now with decency.
    For India, this does not mean that we need to tolerate corruption – but we should learn to see it as a systemic problem, than a few people’s moral failings.

  37. 37.

    HinTN

    November 10, 2020 at 8:16 am

    @Baud:

    We’re in an info vacuum.

    Your msm hard at work.

  38. 38.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 8:19 am

    @PsiFighter37:

    What is the practical difference between “playing politics” and not recognizing an election and not recognizing an election? Would they somehow not recognize an election without politics?

    This is not recognizing an election. It’s not rhetorical. It’s a series of acts.

    White House, escalating tensions, orders agencies to rebuff Biden transition team

  39. 39.

    Zzyzx

    November 10, 2020 at 8:21 am

    @HinTN: In a year where polls were way off and exit polling couldn’t happen as normal due to mail in balloting, I would not want to trust at all exit poll crosstabs.

    I don’t know why we always treat them as gospel in general when we know that polling is inexact at the best of times and looking at the smaller samples is always more questionable.

  40. 40.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 8:24 am

    @PsiFighter37:

    Not recognizing an election politically is “not recognizing an election”. It’s a political act. People thought it would be non-political? What other mechanism would they use to not recognize an election other than “politics”?

    What Republicans were doing yesterday was, literally, “not recognizing an election”. The one and only difference is they are hinting they may recognize it at some undetermined time in the future but they are right now engaging in not recognizing an election.

  41. 41.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    November 10, 2020 at 8:25 am

    @WereBear:

    I think the Lincoln Project legitimized the notion that reluctant Republicans could abandon the top of the ticket and helped create a climate that could see a shift of between 2 to 5 percent of GOP votes.

    That effort will help with structural changes down the line, too.

  42. 42.

    Peale

    November 10, 2020 at 8:25 am

    @Baud: Oh, come on. The willingness of these press to continue with the “secretly, the upper middle class and wealthy Republicans are only playing games for the rubes” charade is just annoying. “We aren’t racist. We just play racists to get votes.” “We aren’t authoritarian. But it polls well in Georgia. We’re just being clever”. I guess once you have a pedigree and a bit of breeding, MJ will excuse anything.

  43. 43.

    phdesmond

    November 10, 2020 at 8:27 am

    @NotMax:

    refreshing!  thank you.

  44. 44.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2020 at 8:29 am

    Good Morning, Everyone???

  45. 45.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 8:29 am

    @Peale:

    It also ignores that the only reason the “stolen election” theme polls well is the entire Republican Party has promoted the stolen election theme. They’re confusing cause and effect here. GOP voters believe the election was stolen because Donald Trump and the GOP told them it was. They’re not being helplessly borne along by the irrational beliefs of their voters. They deliberately planted those beliefs.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 8:30 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

     

    @Kay: To be fair, Hunt also said that  this morning.

  47. 47.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2020 at 8:31 am

    @NotMax: ????

  48. 48.

    Zzyzx

    November 10, 2020 at 8:32 am

    If you haven’t been following, the Republicans’ latest lawsuit is that mail in voting is itself inherently unconstitutional because it creates a two tier system. Seeing how:

    1) Anyone who wanted to vote that way could have

    and

    2) The claims that there were no signature verification or watching of the count are blatantly wrong

    and

    3) States have been doing this for decades already

    This feels like another thrown out in 34 seconds case. You can’t go after the fact and say “We discovered that people who voted against us did so this way, so we want you to throw out millions of votes because we don’t like the process” and expect to win.

  49. 49.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 8:32 am

    @Peale:

    Also, not that it matters, but the Cavuto clip they’re all passing around is the single instance where anyone at Fox pushed back against the lie. Fox is 24/7 stolen election and has been since the day they called the race.  Caputo probably made the clip so they’d pass it around, knowing none of them watch Fox.

  50. 50.

    Peale

    November 10, 2020 at 8:32 am

    @Baud: He did have what would have normally been seen as coattails in Georgia.  We retained a congress seat that we picked up barely in 2018 by a wider margin and flipped another one that we barely lost in 2018. Georgia is one of the few states where that happened.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 8:32 am

     

    @HinTN:

    I think we don’t have reliable data.  Not that we do and then MSM is covering it up.

  52. 52.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2020 at 8:33 am

    @Ramiah Ariya: Sounds about right.

    @Baud: You’re right — we’re in an info vacuum and probably will be until respectable research outfits can sift through the data. Meanwhile, falsehoods will gain currency and be repeated as fact, just as they were in 2016. Le sigh.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 8:34 am

    @Baud:

    I imagine at some point they’ll have to state clearly that Republicans aren’t recognizing an election, since that is in fact what is occurring. It is occurring “politically” that’s true, but “politically” is the only way it could have happened so that’s a distinction without a difference.

  54. 54.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2020 at 8:35 am

    I love that first tweet

     

    OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT

     

     

    YESSSSSSS!!!!!

  55. 55.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 8:35 am

    Bill Barr’s greatest caper

    After many years of practice on other countries, America is finally attempting a rightwing coup on itself, like a jaded big game hunter who finds there’s only one species he hasn’t yet slaughtered, and places the shotgun under his own chin.

    — paul bassett davies (@thewritertype) November 10, 2020

  56. 56.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 8:36 am

    @Peale: Good point.

  57. 57.

    Soprano2

    November 10, 2020 at 8:37 am

    NPR is up to its old tricks. On Morning Edition today I heard an interview with three black male voters – one who voted for Trump, a Bernie supporter who voted for the Green Party candidate, and a Bernie supporter who reluctantly voted for Biden. Notably absent – an actual Democrat who voted for Biden!  I swear, they are absolutely addicted to this kind of reportage. They are bound and determined to show that even though Biden got more votes than literally any other presidential candidate in history, he isn’t really well-liked and sure shouldn’t act like he got any kind of mandate.

  58. 58.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 10, 2020 at 8:37 am

    Non political news.

    Every Monday we get our youngest granddaughter for the day. For better than 3 months I have been picking her up, and every time, and I do mean every time, when first she’d see me, she would burst into tears and not stop crying thru out the goodbyes, the strapping in, the getting of toys for her to occupy herself on the long drive, right up until I started the car. At that she would finally quiet down.

    When we’d get to the house she’d be OK with me, happy to let me carry her into the house, stopping to look at flowers, the fountain, and the birds. And then as soon as we walked in and she saw MawMaw, that was it. barely tolerated my presence and definitely keeping me away.

    It started when she had a really bad day of constipation. I spent about 6 hours on the floor with her just rubbing her back and talking to her. The next week MawMaw started 6 weeks of training and baby girl had me and only me for those days. Combined with separation anxiety, it seemed the die was cast. I had to laugh about it. What else can you do? “I have this wonderful effect on Baby Girl…”

    Yesterday when I picked her up? She smiled.

    I am a happy PawPaw.

    Now, off to the Doc.

  59. 59.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 8:39 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    ?

  60. 60.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 10, 2020 at 8:42 am

    @WereBear:

    O/T. Loved your guest post yesterday over at DAW’s place.

  61. 61.

    Peale

    November 10, 2020 at 8:43 am

    @Soprano2: Yep. It does seem that no one voted for Biden.  Weird, that.  There must have been massive fraud to getting across the finish line.

  62. 62.

    cmorenc

    November 10, 2020 at 8:44 am

    Have Loffler and Perdue explained in any articulate way the basis for demanding Ga’s GOP

    Secretary of State’s resignation – any proof he allowed illegal voting or counting?  I mean, beyond the fact that Trump lost and there were enough votes for opposing candidates that both of them are now forced into a runoff.  In other words, too many people showed up and voted against them and Trump.

  63. 63.

    zhena gogolia

    November 10, 2020 at 8:44 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    So sweet.

  64. 64.

    Brachiator

    November 10, 2020 at 8:45 am

    “It’s easier to scale back than scale up,” Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), who chairs the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.” He said that a “full-scale inauguration” is being planned.

    Pretty sure there will be national, even global, celebrations on the day as well…

    It’s sad that in a sullen alternate universe, Trump and his base believe not only that Trump is the best president since ever, but that world leaders raved about him and thanked gods that he had delivered them from that … elitist… Obama.

    I mentioned in another thread that the only world leaders who did not offer a full and hearty congratulations to Biden were right wing autocrats, the president of Mexico (who doesn’t want to make Trump Hulk angry) and Bibi of Israel.

    The GOP could probably put a stop to Trump’s crybaby tantrum if they ceased enabling him. But it is very telling that Barr and McConnell had a meeting and that subsequently the phony ass litigation against reality continues.

    They know that they can’t win. And yet they persist in feeding Trump’s empty rage, and in poisoning the minds of their base, some of whom truly believe that they can get their Dear Leader back.

  65. 65.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 8:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: As it should be.

  66. 66.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 8:48 am

    Wow: "I was asked to lie about Hunter Biden, admits Ukrainian businessman. Hares Youssef claims he was promised a US visa and legal immunity in return for information that would damage Joe Biden’s presidential campaign https://t.co/ZhntN0LjLo— Josie Ensor (@Josiensor) November 9, 2020

  67. 67.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 8:49 am

    Trust in the electoral process among Republicans has cratered from 68% before the election to 34% now.

    Well, when your god-emperor is a fascist shitstain who hates democracy, these kinds of things tend to happen.

  68. 68.

    Peale

    November 10, 2020 at 8:49 am

    @cmorenc: They are going with “The normal errors associated with any recording processes involving human beings means that voting is not reliable and therefore, there is a conspiracy and we win.”

  69. 69.

    rp

    November 10, 2020 at 8:49 am

    @Ramiah Ariya: What a great point.

  70. 70.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 10, 2020 at 8:51 am

    @rikyrah:

    I love that first tweet

    OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT

    YESSSSSSS!!!!!

    When I was watching Joe yesterday morning on TV, I could hardly take my eyes off that on the wall behind him. OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT. I am there for it!

  71. 71.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2020 at 8:51 am

    We’re getting there.

    Good morning.How's the Republican coup coming along?Have we gotten to the "if you voted for any Democrat, your vote doesn't count" stage yet?— Yeah Sure WTF Ever ????❤️???? (@YeahSureWhatev2) November 10, 2020

  72. 72.

    RSA

    November 10, 2020 at 8:55 am

    On the USAID call — audio leaked to Axios — Trump loyalist Catharine O’Neill, newly installed as the agency’s WH liaison fresh off a stint with the re-election campaign, declared: “The election is still happening. The Electoral College has not voted yet.”

    As I mentioned a couple of days ago, Trump was recognized as President-Elect Trump no later than November 9, 2016. The election is over when it’s over.

  73. 73.

    hueyplong

    November 10, 2020 at 8:56 am

    The only good I can see coming from this is that it likely tamps down any “bygones” sentiment after 1/20.

  74. 74.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 8:57 am

    They told the GOP base for months that Trump was due a huge victory, to the extent that Trumpists were posting maps showing him carrying NY and CA.

    That was a lie and so now they have to tell another lie, that there was election fraud.

    Each lie then requires another bigger lie. They are worse today than they were Friday and they will be worse tomorrow.

  75. 75.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2020 at 8:58 am

    @hueyplong: Reach out to Republicans if and only if they renounce Trump and all his works. And the vast majority of them have chosen not to. They made their choice.

  76. 76.

    cintibud

    November 10, 2020 at 8:59 am

    Question – there was a lot of talk about what Barr may or may not do in the evening thread last night but I didn’t get to it until very late. So my question is – Has Barr actually done anything that could result in serious charges once investigations by an honest justice dept is in place? Or will everything that upsets us and what we think should be illegal really just be papered over by tons of legal BS that ends up protecting him? Unlike other cabinet members that have obvious shady financial dealings that could result in a conviction, could Barr just say he was just doing his job as he saw fit? Thanks

  77. 77.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 9:00 am

    @RSA:

    By words and deed, not recognizing an election. Just so we’re clear on what’s happening here. The Trump Administration and the Republican Party are not recognizing a democratically elected leader and a peaceful transfer of power. Today more than yesterday and tomorrow more than today.

    Is it “political”? Sure. Does that matter? No.

  78. 78.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:02 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    This crap is why after Trump loses, we can’t just declare bygones and move on. That only works if the offender has learned a lesson. I see no sign of a lesson learned. 

    But we were told by the Furrowed Brow of Concern that Dump was impeached and that that’s a pretty big lesson!

    Are you saying a manbaby who’s never faced consequences didn’t learn a pretty big lesson, or learned that he could get away with anything post-impeachment?

  79. 79.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2020 at 9:06 am

    @Kay: Do you think they have any chance of succeeding, i.e., helping Trump cling to power even though he lost the election?

  80. 80.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2020 at 9:06 am

    @Kay:

    You are obsessed with the phrase ‘not recognizing the election’.  Define it.  Define its limits.  Say exactly who is and isn’t doing it.  This is not some absolute on/off state perfectly described by its name.  I’m no longer even sure what you think its effects are or how we should feel.  Are you panicked?  Is it just offensive?  You’ve been chanting it like a mantra.  You’re normally one our most insightful and nuanced commenters, but you’ve gone monomaniac on this.

  81. 81.

    NotMax

    November 10, 2020 at 9:08 am

    Am I alone in figuring that after all the publicity the adult shop will see a significantly greater uptick in business than the landscaping concern?

    //

  82. 82.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 10, 2020 at 9:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Awwww. She loves her PawPaw ?

  83. 83.

    Skepticat

    November 10, 2020 at 9:10 am

    I’m simply hoping that because Biden and team all have long experience, deep connections, and actually want government to work that they can accomplish a great deal without the “cooperation” of this maladministration. But what childish idiots tRumpsters are. All that said, the GSA’s Murphy isn’t being unreasonable (yet). She’s sought advice from Clinton’s GSA administrator, a Democrat who didn’t allocate transition  resources until after the Supreme Court ruling in 2000. Let’s just hope the counting ends soon ad only confirms the current positions.

  84. 84.

    Danielx

    November 10, 2020 at 9:12 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Are you saying a manbaby who’s never faced consequences didn’t learn a pretty big lesson, or learned that he could get away with anything post-impeachment?

    That would be door #1 and door #2.

  85. 85.

    Peale

    November 10, 2020 at 9:12 am

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, honestly, I think they do have a chance. We were told to suck up our loss last time. Sure we won the popular vote, but it wasn’t in the right places. So this time we won the popular vote and made sure that we had the right votes in the right places. But now it looks like they are going to try to change the rules again to the GOP advantage. They can milk the Electoral College madness more. And the idea that the PA and WI legislators promised that they wouldn’t do it is naive.

  86. 86.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2020 at 9:14 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Thanks, I feel a tad better about the stranglehold they continue to have on the media.

  87. 87.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    November 10, 2020 at 9:14 am

    @Skepticat:  Yep. They have to operate as a government in exile because the Executive Branch is occupied by an enemy.

    Nevertheless, they will quietly and competently do their jobs while operating under those ludicrous conditions.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    November 10, 2020 at 9:15 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Trust in the electoral process among Republicans has cratered from 68% before the election to 34% now.

    Well, when your god-emperor is a fascist shitstain who hates democracy, these kinds of things tend to happen.

    I recently listened to a podcast with some articulate ordinary Americans. The conservative had drunk the Kool-Aid and was somewhat reluctantly insisting that the “voter fraud” be investigated.  He even insisted that unsubstantiated claims posted on social media were evidence of a smoking gun, or something.

    This guy had appeared on earlier episodes of the podcast when it took a look at what was happening in America, and was more or less reasonable with respect to his conservative perspective. But now he is full on tribal cultist.

     

  89. 89.

    Soprano2

    November 10, 2020 at 9:15 am

    @Peale:@Soprano2: Yep. It does seem that no one voted for Biden.  Weird, that.  There must have been massive fraud to getting across the finish line.

    Well, no one willingly voted for Biden. *rolleyes* It’s the same play as Hillary in 2016, the press couldn’t seem to find even one voter who was enthusiastic about Hillary, because they weren’t looking in any of the places where those people live.

  90. 90.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    November 10, 2020 at 9:17 am

    Of all the fuckery going on, the one that worries me the most is the effort to remove the GA Secretary of State. To me the only interpretation is that they have somebody they want to put in there to steal the January runoff. It worries me that of all the mostly looney crap they’re pulling, this one could fly under the radar and succeed.

  91. 91.

    Soprano2

    November 10, 2020 at 9:17 am

    @Brachiator: They know that they can’t win. And yet they persist in feeding Trump’s empty rage, and in poisoning the minds of their base, some of whom truly believe that they can get their Dear Leader back.

    I’ve got a totally sane friend who posted to me that the first thing is that we “have to get this presidency vote fixed”. I posted comments to her about it, but I doubt it will have any effect. His cult followers really do believe there is some way to fix it so that he wins after all.

  92. 92.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:20 am

    @NotMax: Do you usually presume that porn enthusiasts have no landscaping needs?

  93. 93.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: From the GA SoS’s “Suck my left nut.  The people hire and fire me.” response, I gather it’s an elected position, not appointed by the (fraudulent) governor.

  94. 94.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    The bush needs tending to.

  95. 95.

    NotMax

    November 10, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @mrmoshpotato

    What happens in the garden shed stays in the garden shed.

    Usually.

    :)

  96. 96.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:24 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Oh, hell, I read “manscaping needs.”

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:26 am

    @Baud: Well, it is said that trimming the bush makes the tree look larger.  I think maybe Sullivan wrote that….

  98. 98.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 10, 2020 at 9:26 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: That’s an elected position. I don’t think they can remove him.

  99. 99.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:26 am

    @Brachiator: Did you see a pair of sexy eyes roll this way?

  100. 100.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:28 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Is this a good strategy in GA?  Dump on the elected Republican Secretary of State.  Peachtree Jackals?  What say you?

  101. 101.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2020 at 9:28 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Squee! Thank you!

  102. 102.

    Danielx

    November 10, 2020 at 9:30 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    There could be (and probably will be) dissertations written on the whys and wherefores of “refusing to recognize an/the election”. It doesn’t make me panicky; it does disturb me on any number of counts. It would take an Adam Silverman-style analytical post to even summarize the primary and secondary effects of this refusal. But just for starters, the full power of the government is still in the hands of someone who recognizes no limits on his authority but who has been rejected by a majority of voters- who he regards as enemies. There are many ways in which he can make life (more) miserable for a lot of people.

  103. 103.

    Yarrow

    November 10, 2020 at 9:31 am

    @WereBear:

    I agree. We need NEW voters and that must be the focus. The Lincoln Project is a lifeboat for media, but did they budge any voters? I’m not seeing much that says they did.

    I can’t speak as to actual data on it, but on a personal anecdotal level, yes they did. One thing that I think isn’t discussed much is that the LP gave people language and framing with which to talk to friends and family members who usually vote Republican but who might have shown signs of wavering. I know several people who used LP framing and even ads to talk to family members about why Trump was dangerous and those family members ended up voting for Biden. That switch was not all because of the LP but they definitely helped people talk to wavering R’s.

  104. 104.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:31 am

    @Immanentize: Four Seasons Total Manscaping

    Did you know?

  105. 105.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2020 at 9:34 am

    @mrmoshpotato: The GOOD news from that would be the pouty response of Fundamentalists to their private win/public loss during the Scopes Monkey Trial.

    They withdrew from political action for a few generations.

  106. 106.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 9:37 am

    @Baud: Only when someone can demagog them up and it so far Trump doesn’t give a shit. Look at the midterms and special elections since 2016, the Republicans took a beating because the Left got the vote out and the Right were just hanging on to what Trump said  We will see, but I suspect this is going to be a big problem going forward for the GOP that Trump is such a king blowhard no one else will be the same for their voters.

  107. 107.

    topclimber

    November 10, 2020 at 9:37 am

    @Kay: You were calling for Dem push back on Barr’s misuse of election investigations yesterday. Do you think Congress should call in the guy who resigned from the elections investigation unit at DOJ to testify? (I do). Think it would do any good?

  108. 108.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:38 am

    @mrmoshpotato: Ha!

  109. 109.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 9:38 am

    It’s clear that we’re becoming increasingly polarised, growing ever more intolerant and abusive towards those who don't share our beliefs. Only a fucking idiot would disagree with that.

    — paul bassett davies (@thewritertype) October 3, 2020

  110. 110.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:39 am

    @topclimber: Congress can call him, but the DOJ, his boss agency, can deny the request for his testimony.  Then subpoenas, then fights.  Holidays.  Then two months later, Biden is President.

  111. 111.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2020 at 9:41 am

    @Danielx:

    That is an answer I can debate, thank you.

    the full power of the government is still in the hands of someone who recognizes no limits on his authority but who has been rejected by a majority of voters- who he regards as enemies. There are many ways in which he can make life (more) miserable for a lot of people.

    But that does not actually change anything.  Trump is not more powerful than he was before the election.  Slightly less, because some of the people who actually do things are planning for a Biden presidency and paying Trump less attention.  Trump always viewed everyone who wasn’t on his side as his enemy.  He was always working hard to make life more miserable for a lot of people.  He’s not going to get worse about that, because he never had any restraint.  He might get slightly better about it, because he won’t bother to put in work if he won’t get to stay president, and right now his singular obsession is law suits to overturn his loss – law suits that are getting laughed out of court.  He’s also lashing out at his allies now, starting with his employees.  If they hadn’t failed him, he’d have won, after all.  Or so narcissists think.  Odds are decent he’ll go after Senate Republicans when (if) it gets through to him that the law suits won’t work.

  112. 112.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 9:42 am

    Imagine being a fly on the wall in the White House right now. You’d be the most qualified legal brain in the building.

    — paul bassett davies (@thewritertype) November 8, 2020

  113. 113.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:42 am

    @germy: You don’t know what to he fuck you’re talking about.

     

    Oh….

  114. 114.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:44 am

    @germy: I think I’d rather be a fly on a head right now.

  115. 115.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2020 at 9:45 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I suspect this is going to be a big problem going forward for the GOP that Trump is such a king blowhard no one else will be the same for their voters.

    I’ve been thinking this, too.  They will abandon Trump when he loses power to enforce white supremacy, and go look for a new champion – but they may not be able to find another Trump.  They don’t want a smarter, more efficient white supremacist.  They want a whiny, petty, butt-ignorant, corrupt asshole.  They want someone whose only goal as president is to piss off liberals.  Trump was fantastic at being that person, and shouting it to the hills.  He didn’t have to act, it’s who he was.  It’s likely no one else can produce the same voter motivation Trump has.

  116. 116.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 9:46 am

    @Ramiah Ariya: When Sarah Palin resigned as governor of Alaska Willie Brown the Democratic major of San Francisco’s comment was “Politics isn’t for amateurs”.  But this anti-elitism goes far beyond politics.

  117. 117.

    sixthdoctor

    November 10, 2020 at 9:46 am

    One of my favorite Georgians speaks…

    My family has been in Georgia for at least 5 generations. I own multiple businesses in Ga. I employ Georgians. My home is Georgia. And my senators are embarrassing me and the state they are supposed to represent. @sendavidperdue and @SenatorLoeffler I am talking g to you.— Alton Brown (@altonbrown) November 9, 2020

  118. 118.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:46 am

    @germy: What would it look like to see a mobster manbaby having a screamy sad?

  119. 119.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:49 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Odds are decent he’ll go after Senate Republicans when (if) it gets through to him that the law suits won’t work. 

    Now where did I put my Injuries #1 foam finger?…  WOO!

  120. 120.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 9:50 am

    Let me be clear: I will not vote to pack the courts & I will not vote to end the filibuster. The U.S. Senate is the most deliberative body in the world. It was made so that we work together in a bipartisan way. If you get rid of the filibuster, there's no reason to have a Senate. pic.twitter.com/g0fasdzVmt

    — Senator Joe Manchin (@Sen_JoeManchin) November 10, 2020

  121. 121.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 9:52 am

    Moments ago on @NewDay… Sen. @ChrisCoons reveals what some of his Republican colleagues have said to him in private — "please convey my well wishes to the President-Elect, but I can't say that publicly yet." pic.twitter.com/lr6J2XigGa

    — Alisyn Camerota (@AlisynCamerota) November 10, 2020

  122. 122.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 9:53 am

    Zoom for you Zoom for me,

    Zoom for all to see!

    Later peeps.

  123. 123.

    topclimber

    November 10, 2020 at 9:53 am

    @Immanentize: Even calling for the testimony and issuing subpoenas is push back. If the guy is disgusted enough, he can probably testify without DOJ approval as long as he steers clear of discussing actual cases. He may risk his job, but if there is no Biden taking office in three months, he is fracked anyway.

    I want him to discuss the reasons he resigned in a forum that gives it more visibility. And explain what the 40-year old policy on such investigations was before Barr butted in.

    If I am wrong about his being able to testify at least we have the spectacle of Barr shooting down open discussion of how election investigations are conducted while he is telling us he wants to investigate election irregularities.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 9:53 am

    I never thought I would hope Eric Erickson will finally be right about something.

  125. 125.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:54 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: For their own Trump trash sake, I hope they realize deep down that their Soviet shitpile god emperor will die some day.

  126. 126.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2020 at 9:56 am

    To repeat: put me down as uninterested in wet-nursing sad Trump voters. Grow up. And repeat what you told Clinton voters in 2016 in the mirror. The rest of us are moving on. https://t.co/PWaqOIz8Qg— Joy WE VOTED!! WEAR A MASK!! Reid ?) (@JoyAnnReid) November 10, 2020

  127. 127.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2020 at 9:57 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    They’ll forget him personally with a speed that will turn your head.  They won’t forget the buzz they got from a president like him anytime soon.

  128. 128.

    The Moar You Know

    November 10, 2020 at 9:58 am

    I have no great confidence that Rupert Murdoch will hold his position of acknowledging that Trump lost through the entire lame-duck period. That could go down the memory hole if the conservatives who are his main customers remain adamant and he starts to think he could actually make this scheme work by joining in.

    @Matt McIrvin:   Fox ratings jump more than 30% when Republicans are not in power.   He’s not going to do jack shit.

    Plus, Trump insulted him.  Several times, in public.  Rupert will not let that slide.

  129. 129.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2020 at 9:58 am

    Both of these seats are winnable: I think either both Democrats win or both Republicans win. #GEORGIA #Elections2020 #Reiders pic.twitter.com/eAqRlgv10W— Jason Johnson (@DrJasonJohnson) November 10, 2020

  130. 130.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 9:58 am

    @germy:

    what some of his Republican colleagues have said to him in private — “please convey my well wishes to the President-Elect, but I can’t say that publicly yet.” 

    Let’s let bygones be “Fuck you, you Soviet shitpile mobster conman-enabling piles of shit!  And fuck you for shitting all over President Obama for 8 fucking years!”

    Yup.  That’s the copy.  Print it.

  131. 131.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2020 at 9:59 am

    @rikyrah:   The first please.  The first.

    We can help make it happen.

  132. 132.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2020 at 9:59 am

    Biden is going to win by 4, 5 or 6 MILLION votes. It's about as clear and clean a win as it gets. Trump may be too much of a toddler to understand or accept that, but his party are the worst of it — lying to their own voters and to their media simply to serve the Mad King. pic.twitter.com/cfK1vVqY34— Joy WE VOTED!! WEAR A MASK!! Reid ?) (@JoyAnnReid) November 10, 2020

  133. 133.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 9:59 am

    @topclimber:

    Think it would do any good?

    I do think it would do some good. I think if a career prosecutor goes out of his way to tell us bad things are happening, risks real damage to his career, we should listen to the career prosecutor rather than professional legal pundits on Twitter.
    It wasn’t just one either. One used his name. There were others.
    Call him before the House and ask him what he’s worried about. Make the risk he took and the sacrifice he made worthwhile. If we want people to behave ethically and with courage we have to support those who do. There are so few of them who stand up. We will need every single one.

  134. 134.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 10, 2020 at 10:00 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’ll pass.

  135. 135.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 10:02 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    They’re terrified of Republican voters.   If these anonymous politicians congratulate Joe too early (or even at all) they’ll never be able to hold another town hall without being heckled, cursed and physically threatened.  They’ve got a tiger by the tail.

  136. 136.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 10:03 am

    @germy:

    Nice sentiment, but sadly not enough courage. He has to say their names.

  137. 137.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 10:03 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: He didn’t have to act, it’s who he was.  It’s likely no one else can produce the same voter motivation Trump has.

    That he didn’t have to act and refused to is likely a big part of Trump’s draw to the Right too.  Worth noting that even a towering intellect as the young and oh so supple Jared Kushner has opined the GOP is a bunch of feuding tribes.  My experience in just running a silly little role play game on line is most of conservatives hate each other as much as they hate liberals.  By Trump’s refusal to do anything required of a president he did nothing to give any faction in his base  offense.  Trump is the political equivalent of Abram’s Mystery Box.

    Since the typical person who is attracted to power has a desire to change the world the conservative demagogues who will come after Trump simply won’t be able to play Mystery Box on which any conservative can imagine their dreams.

  138. 138.

    danielx

    November 10, 2020 at 10:03 am

    Comment from one Viceroy Fizzlebottom at LGM: he’s right.

    I am going absolutely insane at the assurances from our media gatekeepers that “relax, this scheme is farfetched, it won’t work, the claims about the election being stolen are just them trying to placate Our Big Wet President and soothe his massive, fragile ego.”

    You know who absolutely doesn’t understand that? Rank-and-file Goddamn Republicans.

    These Cult of Savvy fucks still see this as a shared, coded game of People In The Know, where Republican elites say horrible, despicable, dangerous shit and we’re all supposed to understand it as them pushing the boundaries but more-or-less playing within the established rules to try and gain a partisan advantage of some kind, and hey, that’s just The Game, ol’ buddy, ol’ sport.

    If we have learned anything at all over the past decade, it’s that Republican voters do not understand this game; they take what they hear from their leaders both literally quite goddamn seriously. They heard that Barack Obama wasn’t born here and may not be a legitimate president – that the PRESIDENT of our COUNTRY was NOT LEGITIMATE. They heard that Obamacare was destroying freedom. They heard that immigrants were pouring over the border and stealing our jobs and murdering beautiful innocent white ladies. They heard that Hillary Clinton had committed myriad crimes, from the bullshit in the 90s to BENGHAZI to compromising our precious national security with her careless, traitorous use of a private email server!

    And you know what? Republicans voters didn’t say “Oh, I get it: our party leaders and their lapdogs in the Conservative Infotainment Complex are exaggerating, indulging our biases and fears in order to gain a momentary advantage politically.”

    They said “holy shit, this is all really, really bad, and we have to take steps that are commensurate with the problems our leaders are telling us exist!” They believed their leaders, and it drove them bugfuck goddamn insane with paranoia and rage. When Republican elites – from elected politicians to scream machine talking heads to stuffed-shirt lawyers – tell them that the 2020 election was stolen from their God-Emperor, they believe it, and I don’t see any way this doesn’t lead to violence.

  139. 139.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2020 at 10:04 am

    @germy:

    Sometime in 2018 (I think?) a Republican staffer said exactly that, elected Republicans are physically afraid of their base.  I remember in 2009 when a few top Republicans like McConnell and Rove tried to tamp down the ‘death panels’ style crazy talk and got such a deluge of hate calls that they were forced to publicly apologize.

    EDIT – @danielx:

    They believed their leaders

    To echo what I just said, no.  Their leaders said what the base demanded to hear.  This shit comes from the ground up.  Republican voters will throw a screaming rage fit if they are not told that they are perfect and everyone else must cater to them and say “Thank you, Sir, may I have another?”

  140. 140.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 10:06 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Rick Wilson has said he heard similar things in 2017, R electeds getting menacing comments, and more, if they didn’t praise trump enough

  141. 141.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 10:06 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Remember the GOP Base was just picketing Barr at his home for not arresting liberals.

  142. 142.

    Peale

    November 10, 2020 at 10:06 am

    Not to bring this up, but if the courts and state legs do decide to install him under these new rules (but they’ve always been there!), there’s nothing really stopping Trump from running for a third term in 2024 because the GOP will just go along with the idea that his first term doesn’t count and once that happens, why bother going against it.  If they can ask “well, what is an election for anyway.” they can certainly go along with “what does the term “term” mean, anyway? What counts as a term is open for debate.”

  143. 143.

    Spanky

    November 10, 2020 at 10:08 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    They want a whiny, petty, butt-ignorant, corrupt asshole.

    Hellooooooo Tom Cotton!

  144. 144.

    hueyplong

    November 10, 2020 at 10:08 am

    I’m sick of this dodge that they’re nervous about what Trump voters might do to them if they aren’t craven.

    They’re not afraid of Trump voters.  They want Trump voters for themselves after Trump is gone.  Read Ted Cruz’s tweets and say that a single one of them is inconsistent with that position.

  145. 145.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2020 at 10:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m so glad!

  146. 146.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 10:09 am

    @Peale: Everyone is predicting Trump will announce his 2024 candidacy the micro second he can’t milk anymore drama from this Vote Count thing. In fact Trump will have to, simple as excuse to milk his supporters for more money to pay his bills.

  147. 147.

    Formica

    November 10, 2020 at 10:10 am

    I usually spend some time at Free Republic a few times a week in order to take the pulse of MAGA America. It’s less smarmy (though often more outwardly racist and fascist) and more authentic than RedState; I really feel like I’m listening to some grey haired Midwestern types who consume a steady diet of right wing media. These are people who are fully read in on the Fox News Cinematic Universe, people who understood everything Trump talked about during the final debate. You get the idea.

    I spent a lot of time before the election trying to figure out why they believed so intently that the “Hunter Biden Laptop” was real, given that 1. the supposed “evidence” is flimsier than my hot girlfriend in Canada, and 2. the blanket refusal by the Trump campaign and their henchmen to provide the evidence to any non-right-wing media outfit.

    You would think that, if the evidence is the Drudge Sirens, Dems in Disarray, OMG Q IS REAL thing they claim it to be, they would want it in the hands of every conventional media outlet there is. Instead, of course, they have refused or ignored all such entreaties.

    And the MAGAs don’t care. At all. Neither of these things even enters into their thinking. The only thing that matters is that the Leader says it is true. Therefore, they will perform whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to make it true, in order to support and venerate the Leader. Straight up cult behavior.

    I bring this up for two reasons. First, the “stolen election” meme is following exactly the same trajectory: Bannon, Giuliani et al put the meme into the ecosystem for consumption by their base while studiously avoiding providing any evidence that supports their claim. This is again analogous to Trump’s hot girlfriend in Canada, whom nobody has met, but she’s super hot, she just doesn’t like having her picture taken.

    Second, the MAGAs buy it with all the devotion a know-nothing white person can muster. They have crafted a unverifiable narrative that ignores reality. And their capacity for cognitive dissonance is stunning, demanding evidence of Trump’s many crimes and then dismissing them as “Fake News”, while insisting that obviously edited images and video (which their cult leaders will not share) are more than enough for Obergruppenführer Barr to start arresting everyone.

    In any case, I bring this up because I have not been able to stomach Free Republic since Election Night. They are absolutely convinced that “the dimocRATz” stole the election, implementing a conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands of people around the country.

    Who did not then also steal the Senate.

    Who allowed their party to lose seats in the House.

    Who made no effort to prevent Republican poll watchers and election monitors from observing the count (directly challenging the words of the Leader and the Inner Party).

    Thus, the idea that Trumpists and conservatives at large have lost faith in our electoral system (not the Electoral College, but the whole thing from towns on up) is frightening. A constituency which does not feel represented by its vote is likely (in my opinion) to resort to violence. It simply does not matter to them that the entire story is false. The Leader has proclaimed it. Being an ignorant follower is very emotionally comforting, and the mindset of most conservative voters is particular in that they actively refuse new evidence or knowledge that challenges what they heard the first time (i.e. coronavirus and masks). If the fascists succeed in keeping the “stolen election” meme alive, and Republican voters really do feel disenfranchised because they lost, this is exactly the kind of situation Meal Team Six, the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, etc have been fantasizing and fetishizing for decades.

  148. 148.

    LurkerNoLonger

    November 10, 2020 at 10:13 am

    @germy: “If you get rid of the filibuster, there’s no reason to have a Senate.”

    Sounds good to me!

  149. 149.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 10:16 am

    @Ramiah Ariya:  For India, this does not mean that we need to tolerate corruption – but we should learn to see it as a systemic problem, than a few people’s moral failings.

    India’s and many other govt’s problem is that it doesn’t have a court/justice system that is not corrupt. If you have corruption and no way to meet out justice that is fair then it isn’t doing its duty.l

    If there is one thing that the U.S. has – it is comparably better at it than some other countries. Be corrupt, but if you’re caught then you will be punished – that doesn’t happen in a lot of places – India is one of them.

  150. 150.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2020 at 10:16 am

    @Kay: Exactly. It’s a species of rehabilitation, IMO, to grant their anonymity. Better to say nothing and let their outrageous silence speak for itself.

  151. 151.

    hueyplong

    November 10, 2020 at 10:19 am

    Manchin’s timing on his statement seems unhelpful.  Maybe if he squints hard he’ll discern a more immediate issue.

  152. 152.

    Jeffro

    November 10, 2020 at 10:19 am

    @germy: what a complete dumbass

    There’s no point in having a Senate if the filibuster goes away???  Ye gods…

  153. 153.

    Joe Falco

    November 10, 2020 at 10:19 am

    My own belief is Republican voters in general are not going to let their own delusions about so-called voter fraud prevent them from turning out to vote in the run-off. I wish to be wrong about this.

    Right now, I’m more concerned about whether the Georgia state assembly will be convened for a special session to somehow change the rules for the run-off. A Federalist whackjob wrote an article demanding the state government eliminate mail-in voting for the run-off, and while they may not go that far, I’m sure Georgia Republicans will think of some way to tilt the odds in their favor.

  154. 154.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2020 at 10:19 am

    @cain: Wow, I cannot possibly disagree more. We’ve basically LEGALIZED corruption in the U.S., and it’s a serious fucking problem — see the case of the former GOP governor of Virginia (McDonnell?) as just one illustration. We also ignore illegal corruption. If there’s anything the Trump admin should have brought home to Americans, it’s that white collar crime and corruption have run completely amok in this country because we IGNORE it.

  155. 155.

    Llelldorin

    November 10, 2020 at 10:20 am

    @germy:

    …there’s no reason to have a Senate.

    Well, now that you mention it…

  156. 156.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2020 at 10:23 am

    @Formica:

    The only thing that matters is that the Leader says it is true.

    Not quite.  The only thing that matters is that they want it to be true.  Trump thinks like them and is good at saying things they want to be true.

    Second, the MAGAs buy it with all the devotion a know-nothing white person can muster.

    Kay is excellent at relaying the viewpoint of the MAGA voter on the ground, and says that most of them really do know they’ve lost.  They’re depressed and resigned about it.  There is definitely a contingent that truly believes, but I think a larger contingent who want to say it with other MAGAs for the comfort of whining.  Whining is, after all, the heart of their movement.

    And their capacity for cognitive dissonance is stunning

    That term does not mean what you think it means.  Look it up in a psych textbook, not Wikipedia.  Yes, this is a nitpick, but it’s one of my pet peeves.  EDIT – You know what?  Maybe you are using it right.  Finally, someone does.  Yes, they take an action, and rearrange their entire belief system to support it.

    A constituency which does not feel represented by its vote is likely (in my opinion) to resort to violence.

    Forget it.  Not going to fucking happen.  There is a risk of a brief period of a very small number of violent acts by individuals or very small groups.  Now, that sucks, and is a danger to keep an eye on, but one of the major threads of conservatism is that they’re chickenshits.  They are all bluster and no fight.  Even the Proud Boys only did their thing in times and places when they were absolutely sure the cops would protect them.

    this is exactly the kind of situation Meal Team Six, the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, etc have been fantasizing and fetishizing for decades.

    Forget that, too.  Like above, it’s their masturbatory fantasy, not something they will actually act on.  And The Call has happened before.  Repeatedly.  Remember the wildlife reserve they took over?  Nobody shows up for it.

  157. 157.

    Jeffro

    November 10, 2020 at 10:24 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Everyone is predicting Trump will announce his 2024 candidacy the micro second he can’t milk anymore drama from this Vote Count thing. In fact Trump will have to, simple as excuse to milk his supporters for more money to pay his bills.

    …annnnnnd to keep the attention flowing.  He’s gotta have that.

    Good luck, Republicans!  For as long as he’s still breathing, trumpov’s going to suck all the oxygen out of your party and keep your talent on the bench.

  158. 158.

    NickM

    November 10, 2020 at 10:25 am

    @Spanky: Fortunately, Tom Cotton has all the charisma of a slightly moist funeral-home director.

  159. 159.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Soprano2:

    NPR is up to its old tricks. On Morning Edition today I heard an interview with three black male voters – one who voted for Trump, a Bernie supporter who voted for the Green Party candidate, and a Bernie supporter who reluctantly voted for Biden. Notably absent – an actual Democrat who voted for Biden!  I swear, they are absolutely addicted to this kind of reportage. They are bound and determined to show that even though Biden got more votes than literally any other presidential candidate in history, he isn’t really well-liked and sure shouldn’t act like he got any kind of mandate.

    They like reporting on the disgruntled and the butt hurt – Democratic voters are generally hopeful and positive folks and I guess that isn’t great “thought provoking” radio.

  160. 160.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Jeffro:

    Is he simultaneously asking his fans to contribute to efforts to overturn Biden’s win and contribute to his 2024 campaign?  Because I wouldn’t be surprised…

  161. 161.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @cain: Democratic voters are generally hopeful and positive folks

    You frequent this place and you can say that?

  162. 162.

    topclimber

    November 10, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @Jeffro: Let’s keep the filibuster–just change the rules on cloture.

  163. 163.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @cain:

    It’s almost like them ignoring a million “man feeds his dog everyday” stories because these are too normal.  It’s more exciting and newsworthy to run a story about a dog who puts out a bowl of kibble everyday for his man.

  164. 164.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am a happy PawPaw.

    It’s funny how people use words like PawPaw, in our family we use appa-pa or amma-ma for grandfather and grandmother. It used to be tata and tati or pata and pati (depending on which side of the family) but nobody liked those because it made them feel old. :-)

    I’d have a hard time calling myself ‘grandpa’

  165. 165.

    Another Scott

    November 10, 2020 at 10:31 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m going to be a (savvy?) contrarian and say this is all kabuki.

    Barr went and did selfies with the “protesters” in front of his house.

    It’s awfully convenient that the GOP base is “preventing” the GOP from doing the opposite of what they’ve been doing for decades, isn’t it??  “Draw and quarter me, set me on fire, skin my beloved grandmother alive and tie her onto a murder hornet nest, but please, please don’t make me say anything against my base!!11”

    :-/

    Memes don’t thrive without care and feeding.  The GOP is more than happy to feed their base and the memes whenever they want, and ignore the ones they think won’t increase their power.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  166. 166.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 10:32 am

    @NickM:  Fortunately, Tom Cotton has all the charisma of a slightly moist funeral-home director.

    I’ve quit the game of trying to figure out who Republican voters find charismatic.  I look at Cotton and the rest of his colleagues and find them repulsive.  But I also found Trump repulsive for decades, and he got screaming fans at every rally, and millions of votes.

    I actually laughed when Trump won the Republican nomination.  I said “Well, the GOP is fucked now. He can’t possibly win in the general.”

  167. 167.

    topclimber

    November 10, 2020 at 10:32 am

    @Llelldorin: I remember the late great John Dingell pointing out that it would be easier to eliminate the Senate (constitutional amendment) than the two-per-state allocation formula (basically impossible).

  168. 168.

    NickM

    November 10, 2020 at 10:33 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: I think lawn signs might be helpful in gauging just where the MAGAs are on the depressed/enraged scale — whether they believe the election was lost or stolen.  In my neighborhood, I was encouraged that two of the three Trump houses took down all their stuff.  I wouldn’t expect it from all — some will have their signs up 50 years from now — but are people seeing a lot of signs come down?

  169. 169.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 10, 2020 at 10:37 am

    I am so tired of these fucking bedwetting takes. Peale and Matt McIrvin are sitting in a tree and eating  pie. Don’t amplify his con and give it more life. He is undermining our democracy and reputation there is no need to help him by making him sound like the second coming of Mao and Hitler put together. He is a whiny, petulant buffoon who is trying to litigate out of a jam like he has always done

    ETA: Thanks Frankensteinbeck for holding the fort. I am out of here.

  170. 170.

    leeleeFL

    November 10, 2020 at 10:39 am

    @mrmoshpotato: We will find out soon, possibly already!  I am listening to jazz  while I read BJ, so i don’t know what is happening out there.

  171. 171.

    Jeffro

    November 10, 2020 at 10:39 am

    @germy: I think that for the moment, it’s only the former.  The 2024 “campaign” will start just as soon as his allies abandon him or Inauguration Day 2021, whichever comes soonest.

    It seems like the GOP powers-that-be (McConnell and Barr, mostly) have decided that there’s no down side to them causing as much trouble as possible for Biden and the Democrats at least through the GA runoff elections.  If they lose both seats, in their mind, there’s no down side to continuing the disruption until the Inaguration and beyond – all the way through ‘til 2024, even.

    If they win one or both seats, they’ll have their Senate majority and they’ll likely ramp down a bit, encourage trumpov to move on, etc.

  172. 172.

    prostratedragon

    November 10, 2020 at 10:39 am

    “What is the practical difference between “playing politics” and not recognizing an election and not recognizing an election? ”

    Not recognizing as a tactic versus as a strategic objective. Or in one word, commitment.

  173. 173.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Another Scott: If it’s Kabuki, then it’s bad Kabuki because Trump lost the election.  Barr was out of sight all October until then.

    The GOP doesn’t control the mems, they outsourced that to the Right Wing Media, 4/chan and the Evangelicals

  174. 174.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2020 at 10:41 am

    @Elizabelle:  Sorry to have to say this, but we are just pulling it out of our collective asses when we say we don’t think we can win the senate seats in Georgia.

    When Stacey Abrams says we can’t win the senate seats in Georgia, then I’ll believe that.

    In the meantime, starting about one second from now, we need to do everything we can to help them win.  Our best shot in the senate rests on our winning both of those races, and I’m not about to give that up without a fight.

  175. 175.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 10, 2020 at 10:42 am

    @germy:  I said “Well, the GOP is fucked now. He can’t possibly win in the general.”

    And he didn’t, just got some weird ass EC victory that instantly delegitimize him.

  176. 176.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 10:49 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I expected a landslide in HRC’s favor.  I didn’t think it’d be close enough for an EC win.  I literally didn’t think he had a chance.  My thought was “I mean, look at him!”

    Plenty of Republican voters looked at him and didn’t see anything wrong.

    My comment was a response to a comment about Tom Cotton’s lack of charisma.  I look at Tom Cotton and a see a bobble-throated Psycho-era Anthony Perkins.  He looks and sounds horrible to me. But Republican voters  will cheer him when he runs for president. They don’t see what I see.

  177. 177.

    Another Scott

    November 10, 2020 at 10:49 am

    @cain: Yesterday, Megna Chakrabarti was doing her thing on “On Point” along those lines.  (Roughly) “Already we’re seeing the Democratic party is fracturing over the election results…” – I rage-flipped the channel.  I assume she was referring to Spanberger’s and AOC’s comments.  Lack of perfect conformity and expressing an opinion is fracturing, you see.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  178. 178.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 10:52 am

    @germy:

    It’s hard to predict. I remember when Scott Walker was supposed to be a real threat. Then he wasn’t.

  179. 179.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 10:53 am

    @germy: I expected a landslide in HRC’s favor.  I didn’t think it’d be close enough for an EC win.  I literally didn’t think he had a chance.  My thought was “I mean, look at him!”

    and that’s still my gut response: How can anyone look at this buffoon and see: a president, a manly man, a successful businessman….

    as to Cotton, I think Josh Hawley’s smarmy, Elmer Gantry schtick (I say that having never seen the movie) would eclipse Cotton, but with the people who think trump is a strong leader…. Who the fuck knows?

  180. 180.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 10, 2020 at 10:57 am

    A friend who was a poll worker in Connecticut was diagnosed with COVID yesterday. She assumes she got it while working.

  181. 181.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2020 at 10:58 am

    @Baud: It’s funny because I saw him up close and always saw the pure charisma deficit.  He looked good to conservatives because he rode a wave and was the face of the conservative win in WI in 2010.  But he was never more than an apparatchik in the WI GOP. A little sunlight exposed him for what he was.

  182. 182.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 10, 2020 at 10:58 am

    To be a professional politician, of course, means there is corruption. But it also means someone who takes defeat in their stride; someone who forms alliances irrespective of deep differences.

    I disagree with this premise that if you are politician you are corrupt.

  183. 183.

    Citizen Alan

    November 10, 2020 at 10:59 am

    @hueyplong:  Actually, I thought it was very  helpful. It was an announcement to every voter in Georgia that having a 50/50+1 Senate wouldn’t mean total Dem control.

  184. 184.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2020 at 10:59 am

    @schrodingers_cat: To some, compromise is corruption.

  185. 185.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 11:02 am

    @danielx:

    I don’t see any way this doesn’t lead to violence.

    Not a bold prediction since there’s already been violence.  There’ll be a lot more violence if they successfully overturn the election results, and it would be morally righteous. But they won’t, so we’ll probably have to deal with sporadic right-wing domestic terrorism for a little while.

  186. 186.

    Citizen Alan

    November 10, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @germy:

    Tom Cotten is everything Donald Trump is except: younger, healthier, relatively handsome (by politician standards), and without accusations of financial and/or sexual misconduct. He’s not as rich (to the extent we pretend Trump is rich), but that’s not his brand. It’s “noble ex-warfighter.” He’s our Hitler in the wings.

  187. 187.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:05 am

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Glad to see that Georgia’s SoS is standing up for Democracy – but also that overturning it would turn his life into a living hell.

  188. 188.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 10, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @Baud: This is their new lie. The new birtherism.

  189. 189.

    germy

    November 10, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @Citizen Alan:  It’s “noble ex-warfighter.”

    I don’t know much about his service.  Maybe in the future Mr. Silverman will let us know if Cotton’s wounds are from paper cuts and stapler mishaps.

  190. 190.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @Immanentize:

    And then we drag his ass back to the court – he won’t have a cover this time or any protection. Put the fucker in jail.

  191. 191.

    japa21

    November 10, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @cain:  I would think his life is one now. Would imagine he is getting death threats.

  192. 192.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 11:10 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Shit.  That is bad and sad.  I hope she is OK.

  193. 193.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:12 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I would love to see this – because it will fuck over so many Republicans who want to run for President. They’d have to wait for another 8 years at that point. Trump will be pretty old too by that time but that’s not gonna stop him.

    He’s going to be hanging around like a bad smell. The whiff of crazy – driving his people nuts and moving them so right that they’ll be primarying everyone and replacing with Qanon.

  194. 194.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 11:14 am

    @Citizen Alan: This is kind of what Hoarse Whisperer said yesterday — In January, we will all love Manchin.

  195. 195.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 11:15 am

    Betsy Klein
    @betsy_klein
    ·2h
    Trump White House staffers, take note — a GOP Hill aide tells me, “This is incredibly upsetting to me. I hope campaign and admin folks keep sending me their resumes, and realize between me and Johnny which one of us is going to have a job on January 21st.”

    No interest in the public, no actual work performed in months, but they all have time to put the employment prospects of the former Trump hires front and center.
    Republicans in Congress are working hard to make sure approximately 200 former Trump staffers keep a government job. That’s the extent of their work product since August.
    Pandemic raging, Trump refusing to concede or allow Biden to run an orderly transition, and this is the focus.
    We’re just SO poorly served. They do lousy work.

  196. 196.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 11:16 am

    @Baud: Agreed.  Overturning the election would be itself an act violence that will call forth responsive acts, etc.  Continued low level sporadic domestic terrorism seems like a part of our futures going forward.

  197. 197.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:16 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    @cain: Wow, I cannot possibly disagree more. We’ve basically LEGALIZED corruption in the U.S., and it’s a serious fucking problem — see the case of the former GOP governor of Virginia (McDonnell?) as just one illustration. We also ignore illegal corruption. If there’s anything the Trump admin should have brought home to Americans, it’s that white collar crime and corruption have run completely amok in this country because we IGNORE it.

     

    Yes, NOW it’s a problem – it’s why I used the word ‘comparably’ because in India, you just bribe the judge. You can’t do that even now unless youre are a rich muckety muck. But over there, anybody can give a bribe. So the system mostly works.

    But the past 20 years there has been a degradation thanks to Republicans. They speak bout the rule of law while they break it, they speak about morality while they’re every act is immoral, they talk about sexual deviance while swimming in deviancy.

    It’s a sad state of affairs and we need to lurch back and course correct quickly. Those judges the Republicans have all installed are probably all corrupt.

  198. 198.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    November 10, 2020 at 11:18 am

    @germy:

    Senator, your proposal is acceptable.

    Please proceed.

  199. 199.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 11:19 am

    @cain: We were talking about subpoenaing the very brave DOJ lawyer who just stepped down from Election integrity to avoid Barr’s illegal order.  I for one have no interest in seeing him in jail!

  200. 200.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 11:19 am

    Cokehead and Lapdance are on the move!

    Jim [email protected]·1h
    Three GOP sources, including close advisers to the president, say Donald Trump Junior and Kimberly Guilfoyle are making moves to expand their influence at the RNC, with sources saying they may seek to take over the party structure themselves.

  201. 201.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 11:19 am

    @cain:

    They’re going to use Kavanaugh’s new legal theory to ratchet down voting rights in state legislatures and state courts won’t be allowed to review them. That’s why Kavanaugh invented the new legal theory. They’re worried they could start losing statewide and national elections in southern states. They can barely put together 270 now and they do it without a majority.

    The next ten years are going to be voting rights battles as far as the eye can see. They’re anti-democratic.

  202. 202.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:19 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: You frequent this place and you can say that?

    hah – I think we feed on each other here – this is a bubble. In my daily life I’m mostly a positive person.

  203. 203.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 11:22 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That will be some party structure!

  204. 204.

    Kay

    November 10, 2020 at 11:22 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t think it’s at all given that the Trump Family owning the RNC works out well for Republicans. It’s the single most optimistic development I’ve seen. There is huge downside risk but no one ever looks at that with Donald Trump. It’s there.

    They don’t have any choice either. Even if they wanted to limit the risk they couldn’t. Trump owns them.

  205. 205.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:25 am

    @Another Scott:

    The Democrats are in disarray is a frequent and common declaration by the media. We are a big tent – so we are going to have people from conservatives to left wingers.  Everyone wants to pull the party in one way or another – because you can only have two.

    This is a great argument for run off elections IMHO. If we can get away from factions that would be nice – but us humans love our tribal associations.

  206. 206.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:29 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    So I guess they are gonna go around with a dime bag? Sounds like Make Drugs Great Again followed by lap dancing – the two will work in concert.

    Imagine what the next RNC would look like :D

  207. 207.

    Zelma

    November 10, 2020 at 11:31 am

    I have been pondering the “why” of Republican insanity and I am pretty sure it’s the fact that they marinate in the radical right media world.  My evidence is anecdotal, but hear me out.

    My cousin-in-law should be a Trump voter (and was in 2016).  He’s a redneck personified: registered Republican, blue collar, veteran, pick-up truck, beer.  But, when he’s in his truck, he listens to country music and Fox News is never on in his house.  He depends on NBC for his news.  Also, he doesn’t attend any of the all too many evangelical churches around here.  And he has come to despise Trump.

    I don’t know how we fight the Fox News and radical right curse but it’s clearly what is at the heart of the problem.

  208. 208.

    cain

    November 10, 2020 at 11:32 am

    @Kay: The next ten years are going to be voting rights battles as far as the eye can see. They’re anti-democratic.

    Yep, they are fascists and they want to hold on to power and now realize that racism and others is not working anymore.

    They need to be broken. Our side really need to do bold moves. We need to get advisors who can figure that out and not try to play it safe.

  209. 209.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 11:34 am

    “may have”, but… she bought a private jet for statewide political campaign….

    Roger Sollenberger @SollenbergerRC
    NEW: Kelly Loeffler may have taken advantage of a loophole in Trump’s tax bill to fully write off the cost of a private jet she bought to use on the campaign trail. Me @Salon

    looks like she and her husband bought it, not the campaign, through one of several shell companies they have set up to make their fancy life taxpayer subsidized

    Loeffler has taken the plane, which she bought last December, on campaign flights as short as an 18-minute hop from a central Georgia hot dog stand to Savannah, as well as between the Peach State and Washington, D.C.

  210. 210.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2020 at 11:35 am

    Don’t forget, First Commandment really is “Never speak ill of a fellow Republican,” which feeds right into the lack of self-awareness and refusal to admit a mistake.

    If they weren’t awash in cash it couldn’t possibly work, because it doesn’t actually work.

  211. 211.

    Goku (Amerikan Baka)

    November 10, 2020 at 11:41 am

    @Peale:

    But now it looks like they are going to try to change the rules again to the GOP advantage. They can milk the Electoral College madness more. And the idea that the PA and WI legislators promised that they wouldn’t do it is naive.

    And how exactly will they do that? It would be blatantly illegal. There’s laws on the books that only the pop vote winner in those states can be allocated the electors to vote in the EC. The PA leg, I believe, is out of session and cannot will itself into session. There’s also a federal law on the books stating that states cannot just arbitrarily change their election rules retroactively to alter a voting outcome

  212. 212.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 11:46 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: OT, But related to our conversation last night of what people were really saying — I think Doug Jones gets what I was inartfully trying to convey.  The problem is not the message of democrats (although countering Republican falsehoods is part of “message”) — it’s the strategy of campaigns:

    We’re not some demonic cult like we’re portrayed to be,” said Jones. “I was fighting the same battle that Jaime Harrison was fighting, that Mike Espy was fighting, that Cal Cunningham was fighting, that Steve Bullock was fighting. And Democrats have not been able to fully counter the Republican narrative.“….

    Jones, the sole incumbent Democratic senator to lose, said both party campaign arms need to change their mission. He said Stacey Abrams’ work in Georgia should be a model for the party’s work in individual states, while he contends the “DSCC and DCCC spend too much time investing in candidates and not the electorate. They don’t invest in House districts, they don’t invest in states.”

    (Politico so not linking)

  213. 213.

    Aleta

    November 10, 2020 at 11:52 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You’re Invited!  Come to Don & Kim’s Party!
    Where:  Your Town, Your State!
    When:  After Millions in Donations
    Let’s Party !

  214. 214.

    Baud

    November 10, 2020 at 11:52 am

    @Immanentize:

    He said Stacey Abrams’ work in Georgia should be a model for the party’s work in individual states, while he contends the “DSCC and DCCC spend too much time investing in candidates and not the electorate. They don’t invest in House districts, they don’t invest in states.”

    I agree with this FWIW.  I think our bigger problem is organization and infrastructure, rather than messaging.

  215. 215.

    frosty

    November 10, 2020 at 11:53 am

    @NickM: No. I’ve seen one sign come down in my area (South PA)!My guess is the flags stay up until the weather has turned them into rags.

  216. 216.

    Aleta

    November 10, 2020 at 11:53 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: “sources, including close advisers to the president”  ha ha

  217. 217.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    @Baud: me too!  I’ve been trying to say that….  I think that discussion is sadly getting lost in the already pre-programmed fighting between “moderates” and “progressives.” I think the smart money is on better organization, recruitment, and constituent service rather than killer “messaging.”

  218. 218.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 12:12 pm

    @Immanentize: I don’t disagree with any of that, but it seems to me that this is a problem that’s been around since as long as I’ve been following politics as Rs, long pre-dating the current version of left vs center: Dems and Den-leaning voters just don’t care about local elections as much as Rs. Seems to me all three candidates for DNC Chair a couple years back all made building state parties a priority. I think a big part of the problem is money. People send Amy McGrath an ungodly amount of money for a doomed cause, but absent a Stacey Abrams or a Ben Wikler it’s harder to get them excited about state-level politics.

    Two pieces of anecdata. My sister lives in Illinois and volunteered for the Bernie-like candidate in their most recent Dem primary for governor. He was a solid progressive, a low-key regular guy from Chicago’s Bungalow Belt, running against a… BILLIONAIRE! 18-29 turn out in that primary was about 3%. Pritzker won it in a walk.

    Charlie Pierce made an early trip to Iowa in advance of the 2020 primaries and went to a county GOP meeting where they were going to pick a slate for some county agriculture board, IIRC, five candidates for three spots that were effectively the election. All five candidates for a county agricultural authority talked about their commitment to “life”. They’ve been doing this for almost fifty years now.

    ETA : I guess I should mention Beto O’Rourke, too. I never went all-in on him in ’18, and he may be the best example of the candidate who misread the political terrain in 2019, but from what I understand after he dropped out of the ’20 primary, he turned his focus back to state-level TX politics

  219. 219.

    Emma from FL

    November 10, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    @Kay: I spent most of last night thinking about your posts. And I agree. This is a slow burn coup. And after it is over, Democrats will have to be cleaning the Augean stables for decades.

  220. 220.

    Miss Bianca

    November 10, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    @NickM: So, the right-wing rag in town took down *all* their signage, including “Recall Polis” (our governor). And since they are the fomenters of batshit RWNJ-ism in our county, I took that as a hopeful sign. But other MAGAts around the county haven’t followed suit yet.

  221. 221.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 10, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    @Brachiator: I mentioned in another thread that the only world leaders who did not offer a full and hearty congratulations to Biden were right wing autocrats, the president of Mexico (who doesn’t want to make Trump Hulk angry) and Bibi of Israel.

    I mentioned in another thread that I’d seen a tweet from Modi that congratulated Kamala on her historic election (as an Indian-American) but made no mention of Biden. Which seemed, um, bizarre.

  222. 222.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 10, 2020 at 12:45 pm

    @Immanentize: @germy: I think I’d rather be a fly on a head right now.

    For some reason I failed to relate this bit of jollity at the appropriate time (just post-VP debate), so here goes:

    Guy walks into a bar with a frog on his head and sits down at the bar.

    Bartender sez, Where’d you get that?

    Frog replies, Would you believe it started as a wart on my ass?

    /rimshot ;^D

  223. 223.

    NotMax

    November 10, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    @Brachiator

    FYI, from two days ago.

    Israel’s Netanyahu congratulates Biden on U.S. election win, thanks Trump

    If Bibi knows one thing it’s on which side the subsidies are buttered.

  224. 224.

    J R in WV

    November 10, 2020 at 12:50 pm

    @Immanentize:

    @germy: I think I’d rather be a fly on a head right now.

    I think when that fly landed on Dense’s head, Mike’s IQ was doubled!

  225. 225.

    Miss Bianca

    November 10, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    @Zelma:

    I don’t know how we fight the Fox News and radical right curse but it’s clearly what is at the heart of the problem.

    Encourage more people to listen to country music instead?

  226. 226.

    Miss Bianca

    November 10, 2020 at 1:01 pm

    @Immanentize: OK, as someone who has had this “Moderates!” “Progressives!” argument with you in the past, I concur with these conclusions.

  227. 227.

    J R in WV

    November 10, 2020 at 1:24 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I disagree with this premise that if you are politician you are corrupt.

    I agree with you on that. While there are corrupt politicians [Shelley Moore Capito, Joe Manchin] there are many politicians who intend to do their best to provide good governance and help their constituents.

    Some few of them may even be Republicans.

  228. 228.

    J R in WV

    November 10, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    @Immanentize:

    In January, we will all love Manchin.

    I once shook hands with Joe. It was something I couldn’t avoid and keep my job. Scum. I will vote for him, I will never like him.

  229. 229.

    Brachiator

    November 10, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @NotMax:

    The BBC news story about Bibi included this observation.

    And while he congratulated Mr Biden, observers have noted the absence of the words “president-elect” and “vice-president-elect” in his message.

  230. 230.

    Jeffery

    November 10, 2020 at 2:00 pm

    Three million people at the inauguration is not a good idea in a pandemic.

  231. 231.

    Bill Arnold

    November 10, 2020 at 2:20 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    but that’s not his brand. It’s “noble ex-warfighter.”

    His brand is not entirely under his control. Democrats (and non-authoritarians) need to be working on defining (potential) up-and-coming authoritarians; deep and complete oppo research, A/B message/narrative/brand testing, the works.

  232. 232.

    taumaturgo

    November 10, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @germy:

    Let me be clear: I will not vote to pack the courts & I will not vote to end the filibuster. The U.S. Senate is the most deliberative body in the world. It was made so that we work together in a bipartisan way. If you get rid of the filibuster, there’s no reason to have a Senate. pic.twitter.com/g0fasdzVmt

    — Senator Joe Manchin (@Sen_JoeManchin) November 10, 2020

    One of the best encapsulation of the conservative democrat’s defense of the status quo.

  233. 233.

    taumaturgo

    November 10, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    Here are other wonderful words of political wis-doom:

    Already, Democratic leadership has set the tone: If “we are going to run on Medicare for All, defund the police, socialized medicine, we’re not going to win,” House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn reportedly warned on the Democratic-caucus call, to the frustration of many progressives. The next two months, Pelosi added, will be “fraught with meaning.” The Atlantic 11/09/20

    Will someone, somehow please informed Nancy and Jim that the majority of Democrats who supported M4A, even in the red-leaning district won the seat, most democrats who opposed M4A lost the seat, even in democratic leaning districts.

  234. 234.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 2:48 pm

    @taumaturgo: okay, since it’s a dead thread, I’ll play: Which Democrat lost in a Democratic-leaning district?

  235. 235.

    mg_65

    November 10, 2020 at 2:59 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: that’s a really good and useful point. Trump is sort of the political equivalent of a Mary Sue.

  236. 236.

    taumaturgo

    November 10, 2020 at 3:05 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: okay, since it’s a dead thread, I’ll play: Which Democrat lost in a Democratic-leaning district?

    Debbie Murcas Power-FL29 D+6

    Donna Shalala-FL27 D+5

    Xochitl Torres – NM02 – Even

  237. 237.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2020 at 4:02 pm

    @taumaturgo: so your sample is so small you feel the need to pad it with a case that doesn’t meet your own criteria, and your other argument is that voters in districts dominated by old white people and Cuban/Latin American emigre culture were looking for more socialism and promises to disband the police? including a “Dem-leaning district” that sent freaking Ileana Ros-Lehtinen to Congress for thirty freaking years?

  238. 238.

    ET

    November 10, 2020 at 5:24 pm

    It would serve Republicans right if their voters were so distrustful they stopped voting. Especially the ones in Georgia.

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