Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

You cannot shame the shameless.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

The revolution will be supervised.

T R E 4 5 O N

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

People are complicated. Love is not.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Friday Morning Open Thread: A Presidency We Can Look Forward To

Friday Morning Open Thread: A Presidency We Can Look Forward To

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265Comments

  1. 1.

    Patricia Kayden

    President Biden definitely has a mandate and should act accordingly. I expect substantive accomplishments from his administration. We just have to flip Georgia in January and we’re golden.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    Today show did a nice explainer on how frivolous the lawsuits were and that were been used to fleece money from the rubes.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    I have no idea what Joe Biden is doing or thinking or watching on tv right now. how fucking awesome is that

    When I see something is BREAKING news, I don’t have to assume the worst anymore.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    About that last tweet, Yeah:

    Top US cybersecurity official Christopher Krebs has told associates he expects to be fired by the White House, according to three sources familiar with the matter.

    Krebs is the government’s point person on securing voting technology and is widely respected among local election officials. His agency has also been aggressively pushing back on rumors that something went wrong with the 2020 election, as Donald Trump, who refuses to concede to the president-elect, Joe Biden, contests.
    ………………………….
    Separately, Bryan Ware, assistant director for cybersecurity at Cisa, confirmed to Reuters that he had handed in his resignation on Thursday.

    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Krebs has drawn praise from both Democrats and Republicans for his handling of the US election, which generally ran smoothly despite persistent fears in the run-up that foreign hackers might try to undermine the vote or that there might be chaos with mail-in voting during a pandemic or intimidation of voters going to the polls to cast their ballots in person.

    But he drew the ire of the Trump White House over a website run by Cisa dubbed Rumor Control which debunks misinformation about the election, according to the three people familiar with the matter.

    White House officials have asked for content to be edited or removed from the website, which has disputed numerous false claims about the election, including that Democrats are behind a mass election fraud scheme, for which no evidence has been presented. In response, Cisa officials have refused to delete accurate information.

    The Deep State strikes back!

    In particular, one person said, the White House was angry about a Cisa post rejecting a conspiracy theory that falsely claims an intelligence agency supercomputer and program, purportedly named Hammer and Scorecard, could have flipped votes nationally. No such system exists, according to Krebs, election security experts and former US officials.

    Just think, 47% of American voters want more of this shit.

  5. 5.

    RandomMonster

    Expect Dump to now try to fire everyone in that coalition of cybersecurity experts.

    ETA: Did not see Ozark’s comment when I typed that.

  6. 6.

    Emma from FL

    I agree completely with @itsJeffTiedrich.  And I will add that when one does hear about Biden he’s always doing something that I would expect a president to be doing. Such a relief.

  7. 7.

    TS (the original)

    China congratulates Joe Biden on being elected US president, says “we respect the choice of the American people.”

    So China respects the US vote – that the US President & his sycophants refuse to do.

  8. 8.

    danielx

    I have no idea what Joe Biden is doing or thinking or watching on tv right now. how fucking awesome is that

    I know what he’s not doing. He’s not wanking away on Twitter about his grievances and television ratings.

    Which is pretty awesome at that.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    My bold prediction: President Biden will never send out a tweet written in ALL CAPS.*

    *Unless different church lady joins the White House Press Team.

  12. 12.

    germy

    It looks like the Washington Post headline writers are fed up with him:

    As Trump stews over election, he mostly ignores the public duties of the presidency
    He has been mostly absent from view, focused on purging disloyal aides and tweeting grievances and misinformation even as the pandemic rages.

  14. 14.

    CliosFanBoy

    BTW, historic trivia: Trump is the 3d president to lose the popular vote twice but serve a term as president. JQ Adams and Benjamin Harrison both lost the popular vote but got elected anyway for a first term, then lost re-election. BOTH were much better presidents than Trump.

  15. 15.

    germy

    So Tommy Tuberville has a bachelor in phys ed from Southern Arkansas University and he's never been in politics before and now he's a Senator. This should work out great.

    — Schooley (@Rschooley) November 13, 2020

    “Ladies and gentlemen, please rise for Senator Potato Town”

  16. 16.

    germy

    "This is the longest period of time that the president has not spoken publicly in his entire presidency" reports @yamiche. People who work for him are 'anxious and fearful."

    — Sara Just (@sarajust) November 12, 2020

    They’ve been anxious and fearful for four years.

    We’ve all been anxious and fearful for four years.

  17. 17.

    Danielx

    @germy:

    Well, he can’t scream “you’re fired” at all the people who didn’t vote for him, so he has to do something. Guy needs a hobby, right?

  21. 21.

    germy

    BREAKING: ⁦@TiffanyATrump⁩ and I are friends! pic.twitter.com/WAORQNGGef— Matt Gaetz (@mattgaetz) November 13, 2020

    This might become the love affair of the century. Yesterday, Gaetz was replying with heart emojis to her selfies.

    Folks, I think we may witness the creation of a political dynasty. Trump/Gaetz 2024 and beyond

    Nestor will need earplugs— Maxwell (@purplestates) November 13, 2020

    Nestor gonna watch— Shaun Benson (@shaunmbenson) November 13, 2020

    I think @TiffanyATrump is the one who’s gonna watch— The Liberal in FL (@Tenchi2020) November 13, 2020

  26. 26.

    Bruce K

    @Baud: The only person whose ALL CAPS tweets I pay attention to is John Scalzi, and that’s only because he does it not when he’s agitated, but when he’s being deliberately silly.

    (Note to self: unblock @POTUS account at 7:01pm Athens time on January 20.)

  29. 29.

    Kay

    I get a lot of pleasure thinking about not paying the Trump people after January 20th. We also won’t have to pay the Trumps for 9 dollar glasses of water anymore. I resent that that family has robbed the public for four years and I cannot wait to stop sending tax dollars to their sleazy “businesses”. No more three figure salaries for hundreds of Trump hires who haven’t done a lick of work since last January. Unemployed. I’m thrilled about that. The Right wing grift sector is big enough to absorb the low quality hires and we may have to remove them physically from the premises to get them to clear out but they will no longer be on our payroll. Wonderful.

    I sometimes hope they have to be removed. An eviction action. I think that would be fun to watch.

  37. 37.

    SFAW

    @Spanky:

    Is WindsorMann like Florida Man, but with British royalty?

    Does that mean he types with his pinky finger uplifted? Does he spit-take tea, not coffee, on his keyboard

  39. 39.

    Sab

    @germy: Good job Alabama. You had a guy who could do the job, but no, you needed a newbie in the slot, to prove something or other.

  40. 40.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I like the “cut off the water and electricity” method myself.  They wouldn’t last three hours.

    Meanwhile I do feel very bad (but now relieved?) For the staff.

  42. 42.

    Soprano2

    @germy: My response to this is that I hope he continues to not speak in public until January 20th! I think this is a benefit. If only they could take his phone away from him. Twitter should just shut down his account, most of it these days is blank due to spreading lies about the election.

  44. 44.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I sometimes hope they have to be removed. An eviction action. I think that would be fun to watch.

    Are you kidding? If they could stream it and charge people to watch, they could raise a huge pile of money. I’d pay to watch that! My dream is that they have to drag Trump out by the hair. I know it won’t happen, but I can dream can’t I?

  45. 45.

    leeleeFL

    @Baud:  But Senator Warren knew why we fought the f’in Second World War, to say nothing of being BRILLIANT on economics fir years on TPM>

  46. 46.

    SFAW

    If Mike Bloomberg has any money left (i.e., that he earmarked for the campaign), I think it would be a trolling good time were he to have various lawyers initiate lawsuits seeking to overturn the results in FL, NC, and OH. I expect they could find various “affidavits” claiming that voters in deep Blue “The Villages” (1) (for example) saw poll workers make alterations to their ballots, or discard them, or something. I think it would be just the push needed to make the Traitor-in-Chief’s head a-splode.

     

    (1) Yes, I know The Villages is not deep Blue by any stretch. That’s why I chose it.

  49. 49.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Sab: Tuberville is a depressing come down from Doug Jones. He made some statement about WWII that suggested he thought it was fought to defeat socialism. It’s possible he’s one of those people who takes the Nazi’s name to mean Bernie Sanders.

    I’ve done something to my left knee, so I’ve decided to rest it for a week or so and see what happens. Not being able to exercise is going to make me crabby

  50. 50.

    SFAW

    @Soprano2:

    Are you kidding? If they could stream it and charge people to watch, they could raise a huge pile of money. I’d pay to watch that! My dream is that they have to drag Trump out by the hair. I know it won’t happen, but I can dream can’t I?

    Thought exercise: would more money be brought in from that, or from owning the beer concession near the graves of Trump, Barr, Miller, et al.?

    Yes, I know they can do both.

  51. 51.

    leeleeFL

    @Sab:  Thanks, I didn’t realize there was such a difference. She impressed the heck out of me with her knowledge.

  52. 52.

    TS (the original)

    @germy:

    People who work for him are ‘anxious and fearful.”

    Working for him was their biggest mistake. Ever getting another job is why they are anxious and fearful. I so hope Biden appoints no-one to his team who worked for trump (permanent govt employees excepted).

  53. 53.

    SFAW

    @Sab:

    Could you come talk to my cats? Afterwards I will have a professional consultation with Werebear to scrape them off the ceiling.

    Next time, turn the volume down before one of DCL’s comments is displayed, so the cats  don’t get freaked.

  55. 55.

    dww44

    @Baud: but she had a recognizable background in public policy. The new senator thinks we fought in WWII to defeat European socialism. Good job Alabama  You replaced a just and thoughtful public servant with a sports  icon with zero understanding of history

  56. 56.

    geg6

    @germy:

    Anxious and nervous?  They should be.  They are all criminals, as far as I can tell.  Myself, I’m thrilled he’s shut the hell up and is only screaming on Twitter, which I do not frequent myself.

  60. 60.

    geg6

    @Baud:

    Yeah, but I’m pretty sure she had accomplishments bigger than a BA or BS in phys ed and being a college football coach.

  61. 61.

    germy

    @geg6:

    The tweets are in response to an interview he gave yesterday.

    He displayed an ignorance of history and politics … he made my own high school gym teachers sound like Einstein.

  62. 62.

    Baud

    @geg6:

    The degree doesn’t mean that much to me. I think his life history is more relevant to his lack of qualifications, although not necessarily his lack of political experience.

    ETA: His actual statements are relevant too, of course.

  63. 63.

    geg6

    @Immanentize:

    Meanwhile I do feel very bad (but now relieved?) For the staff.

    OMG, can you imagine the joy among the permanent White House staff that the Bidens will soon be in residence?  I simply cannot imagine the torture they’ve endured over the last four years.

  64. 64.

    Betty Cracker

    Found a new series to watch on HBO last night: The Beforeigners. Anyone seen it? It’s Norwegian, so subtitles, but the concept is interesting. About 15,000 people suddenly start arriving annually through a mysterious time-travel phenomenon. All of the “beforeigners” are from three specific eras: prehistoric cave dwellers, Norse people from around the year 1000 and people from the 19th century.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    Wal Mart hired a bunch of people to do “picking” and “running”. When you order online or by phone someone picks it and someone runs it out to your car. My youngest just started as a “runner”.
    Last night they had a customer upset because they did substitutions in her order- the Wal Mart here is poorly managed. It’s kind of a mess. My son told her “I’ve only been here like a week and he’s (gesturing to 22 year old manager) basically powerless”. I could not stop laughing over “basically powerless”.

  66. 66.

    Immanentize

    @geg6: But these last days of waiting for January — even if Trump has folded and is leaving them mostly alone — must really be hard.

  67. 67.

    geg6

    @dww44:

    But is he even a sports icon?  I never heard of him before this election and I do pay attention (if not a lot) to college football.  Never once had I heard his name.

  68. 68.

    dww44

    These ads for the runoff are brutal.  Loeffler is running  one that paints Warnock as  a Marxist and a radical’s radical, showing him behind the pulpit with Castro in his familiar green military garb.  Looks photo shopped to me.
    The GOP is selling unrestrained fear and ignorance  They are “Saving America.”

  70. 70.

    germy

    Tuberville never showed up for a debate.  “Nope, I ain’t debating.”

    I really think people like him watched Trump for four years, and said to themselves “I like the way he makes his own rules!”

    We’ll be seeing a lot more Republican politicians like Tuberville in the next few years.  Trump turned on a light switch in their brains.

  71. 71.

    Gin & Tonic

    @dww44:

    Good job Alabama  You replaced a just and thoughtful public servant with a sports  icon with zero understanding of history

    Some old proverb about making one’s bed…

  72. 72.

    germy

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I get paid here, but Cole expects a kickback every month.  Doug, too.  After all the fees, etc., it actually costs me to comment.

    I was reading an interview with a comedian who played small clubs and resorts in the late 1940s.  At one venue where he was booked for a week, management charged him for meals and room rent.  When he complained to the boss about all the deductions, and how he was losing money, the boss replied “Some jobs, you gotta save up for.”

  73. 73.

    Sab

    @Kay: Thank God I didn’t have a mother like you. Mine was tough, but her expertise was in passive aggression.My husband (who really liked her and whose own mother was never passive about anything) says my mother was an absolute master at passive aggression. I hadn’t known it was an art form. I only thought it was unpleasant.

  74. 74.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    I’m sure Tuberville will be awful, but Elizabeth Warren’s first political office was the Senate.

    A law professor who focused on consumer protection, economics, etc., might have a background that is somewhat more relevant to politics and governing than a college football coach. [And, no, being a college football coach does not mean you’ve learned how to get difficult policy implemented, etc.]

    Eisenhower’s first political office was President, but — intellect aside — I think he brought something more to the governing table that Auburn’s Bestest Football Coach EVAH. But maybe his role in WW2 was a sinecure, and I’m mistaken.

  75. 75.

    geg6

    @Immanentize:

    They have light at the end of the tunnel, though.  They can dream about soon having Joe and Jill and grandkids and Major and Champ to bring life and laughter back into what must have been a hellish nightmare of a workplace.

  76. 76.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @geg6: I don’t pay any attention to college football, but I’d heard his name before. Everybody in AL knew his name just by virtue of being either an Alabama fan or an Auburn fan. That’s 90% of Alabama.

  77. 77.

    dww44

    @geg6: Point well taken. He is one to football mad Alabamians. A former coach at one of the 2 big football powerhouses, Auburn. Football coaches in these parts are often elevated to revered positions in the culture that translates to the political arena. No different than how we got Trump. The GOP voters are the enemy of our democracy.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    I didn’t weigh into the AOC controversy and I don’t want to weigh in on the ideological fight, but AOC is not alone when she says Democrats need a better campaign infrastructure. This is a remarkably consistent complaint from organizers and I have heard it for years.

    What the center, center Left and Left could come together on that we have to rethink how we do organizing and campaigns. We have to get better at it. If you don’t like her saying it then pick someone else, because everyone says it. They have to spend less on parachuting in with tv ads and more on building organizing infrastructure. They have resisted it. It has to change and I think it will change now but please don’t put it inside whatever you think about AOC. She’s just one of the ones who said it.

  79. 79.

    Spanky

    @Kay: Sounds like a grand invitation for kids to shoplift under the guise of “running”. OK, they do run, but basically don’t stop until they’re home.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, he had a pretty good run in the SEC. I was hoping his standing as an Auburn coach would prompt more Tide fan Repubs to keep the Atticus Finch guy in the senate even though he’s a Democrat. But nope. I hope Biden finds a good spot for Jones. AG maybe. He seems like a genuinely good man.

  81. 81.

    Soprano2

    This is going to go well: https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/parson-relaxes-school-guidance-on-coronavirus-quarantines-in-missouri/article_1f23af61-fa37-56d4-9db6-548c1c10f02e.html

    Students and teachers will no longer need to quarantine for 14 days after being exposed to COVID-19 if all parties were wearing a mask, Missouri officials said Thursday.

    “If a district or charter school has a mask mandate in place and all individuals are wearing masks correctly, as long as they do not begin to show symptoms, those close contacts may continue to attend school in person,” Gov. Mike Parson said at a news conference.

    I think they’re admitting that convenience for parents is more important now than protecting people’s health, because they are totally ignoring the fact that asymptomatic people can spread the virus! And this guy got re-elected in MO.

  82. 82.

    geg6

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Well, that’s Alabama, I guess.  It never even made a single sports segment here in Western PA or I would certainly have heard of it.  Of course, no one gives a crap about the SEC around here.  It’s the ACC (mainly basketball) or the Big 10 that has meaning here.

  83. 83.

    Gin & Tonic

    The dozens and dozens of lawyers who comment here probably already know about this and have had their chuckles, but I found this pretty amusing.

    Trump lawyers appear to have filed a lawsuit in the wrong court, sending what was supposed to be a Michigan suit to a special D.C. federal court that only hears monetary claims against the federal government. https://t.co/HEPVNowaaw
    — Byron Tau (@ByronTau) November 12, 2020

  84. 84.

    Spanky

    Tuberville is perfect for Alabama, which seems to want everyone to consider the retarded sibling that the other 49 have to spend the rest of their lives taking care of.

  85. 85.

    hueyplong

    The newly  minted Senator from Alabama isn’t the way I was hoping to say “Cornyn isn’t the dumbest Senator anymore.”

    Now we’ll know what it would have been like had Louie Gohmert become a Senator.

  86. 86.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @geg6:It’s the ACC (mainly basketball) or the Big 10 that has meaning here.

    Heh, I almost tacked that difference on at the end of my reply to you. :-)

  87. 87.

    Soprano2

    @SFAW: Thought exercise: would more money be brought in from that, or from owning the beer concession near the graves of Trump, Barr, Miller, et al.?

    Yes, I know they can do both.

    Boy, I’ve gotta admit that’s a tough one. Probably the beer concession, because it will last a lot longer.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    @Sab:

    We’re having a bad year. We fight all the time now and he was always easy going. I think it’s because he’s leaving next year so they do that thing where they’re mean to you so it’s easier to go. He’s just so patronizing. Last night I asked him if he did the high school to college transcript requests and he said “you’re empty nesting- I can handle it”. Gross- “empty nesting”. Half the time I don’t respond to him at all because if I did I would rip his head off and that’s over reacting. I genuinely believe he doesn’t know how horrible he sounds.

  90. 90.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @germy:

    He displayed an ignorance of history and politics

    Thinks the three branches of government are “the House, the Senate, and the Executive.”

    I don’t believe in literacy tests for voting, but I’m thinking that every candidate for public office should, at minimum, have to score north of 90% on a test similar to the one aspiring U. S. citizens take. It’s insane that a Senator-elect got this so wrong.

  92. 92.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Baud: Well, we do have some idea what he is thinking, and we ought to have an idea of what he is doing.  The bully pulpit is still as bully as it ever was, despite its misuse and overuse by the outgoing regime.

    One of the reasons why I voted for Mr. Ford in 1976 (my first vote, my only and last for a Republican) was because Mr. Carter promised to routinely appeal to the people over the heads of Congress; that, I thought, made him the worse of two demagogues.  But today I do not want to see Mr. Biden follow Mr. Obama’s example of appearing to disdain personal propaganda.

    Politics is the art of the possible and the art of the necessary; one must first define the necessary before considerations of what is possible can even make any sense.  (Republicans know this (if little else).)  This must be planned and executed like any marketing campaign: there is a large first-mover advantage, and all effects depend upon cumulative repetition.

  95. 95.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been holding my tongue about it because AOC sets people off, and I get that, and I haven’t felt like arguing about it. But she’s right about the organizing, and that conversation absolutely needs to happen. People like Wikler of WI and Abrams of GA should lead the way.

  96. 96.

    hueyplong

    @Gin & Tonic: Saw someone somewhere blame the court misfiling on PACER (the electronic filing system).  From personal experience filing federal lawsuits, I can assure you that is nonsense.

    They — every one of them — are not very bright and things always get out of hand if there is any transparency on literally anything they attempt to do.

    Anything.  Their evil really distracts us from their nearly incomprehensible level of incompetence.

  97. 97.

    Keith P.

    @germy: Given the booster issues that Auburn (and the rest of college football, for that matter) has had, particularly in the Tuberville era, the odds are decent that he gets busted for taking a bribe in his first year in the Senate.

  98. 98.

    narya

    @dww44: I saw Warnock’s pizza and puppies ad yesterday, and loved it. Not that that means a damn thing, but I sometimes hope that projecting humor and kindness is a good thing and that at least some voters will respond to that.

  100. 100.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    Was it her comments on organizing that set people off?  I don’t follow her, but I don’t recall that.  I recall digital ads mostly, as well as her response to Spanberger (who was in the wrong, to be clear).

  102. 102.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Gin & Tonic: The depth of the stupidity involved in that filing is almost impossible to explain.  It is like filing your personal injury suit from an accident in New Hampshire in a family court in New Mexico.

  103. 103.

    different-church-lady

    @Kay:

    I genuinely believe he doesn’t know how horrible he sounds.

    Being child-free-by-choice, I usually hesitate to meddle in parent-child relationships. But, based on some recent non-parent-child experiences of similar nature, I think it would be a good thing to talk with him about this very thing before he wanders off into the adult world on his own. Because I can pretty much guarantee you’re not the only person he meets who’s going to think this.

  105. 105.

    Nora

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I agree 100% that anyone running for Federal Office should have to pass a citizenship test before being allowed to run.  It would have prevented Trump, that’s for sure.

  111. 111.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Betty Cracker:

    prehistoric cave dwellers, Norse people from around the year 1000 and people from the 19th century.

    I assume the first two find our treatment of women and sexual repression barbaric.

    EDIT – @Kay:

    AOC is not alone when she says Democrats need a better campaign infrastructure.

    Nobody was complaining about that.  They were complaining that she claimed ‘progressive policies’ would have gotten swing district politicians reelected.  It is dishonest of her and her fans to claim it’s an argument about infrastructure.

  113. 113.

    WaterGirl

    @Betty Cracker:

    People like Wikler of WI and Abrams of GA should lead the way.

    I think you will be happy to know that they are!  I listened to the interview with Stacey Abrams on Pod Save America last night, and she talked about that.

    She talked about how the road to the win in Georgia didn’t start with her run in 2018 – it started in 2010 when they got serious about organizing, and that’s also when she started the organization “New Georgia”.

    She says she can’t promise a win every election, but they can always make progress, and that’s what got them the win this year. And that the organizing and connections can’t just happen around elections.

    They are doing it year-round.

  116. 116.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I wish we did talk about organizing more, because I think that’s one area where there’s probably near universal agreement that improvements are needed, and its not directly tied to ideology or messaging.

  118. 118.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Nora: They give you a booklet of 100 questions to study and ask any 3 of them. If you don’t get any of the questions right, it happens because people are nervous then they ask you again. You can get up to 3 questions wrong.

    Then there is the English test, where you have to show that you can read and understand English.

    I aced it.

  120. 120.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: But she made other comments as well in response to Spanberger, and i think it was those other comments that rubbed some people the wrong way.

    I don’t even recall hearing what she said about organizing other than criticizing people like Conor Lamb for not spending money on Facebook ads (which I wouldn’t call organizing anyway).

  121. 121.

    Betty Cracker

    @different-church-lady: AOC was responding to an attack from another MOC, but while we’re on the subject, who thought it was a good idea to organize a caucus primal scream therapy session on that particular day? That’s the person who should be dinged for feeding disarray narratives, IMO.

  122. 122.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @different-church-lady: She is still a freshman in Congress.  She is a future star, but I think way too many people, left, center-left, and center, pay way too much attention to what she says.  Being pretty seems to be a force multiplier.

  123. 123.

    germy

    @Haroldo:

    Tuberville invested $1.9 million in GLC Enterprises, which the Securities and Exchange Commission called an $80 million Ponzi scheme; he lost about $150,000 when the business closed in 2011, filing for bankruptcy.

  124. 124.

    Fair Economist

    @Betty Cracker: Both sides of this moderate vs. progressive spat have points. AOC is right we should spend less on TV ads and more on organizing and social media. But the moderates are right that divisive slogans like Defund the Police hurt us badly with swing voters, of which there were actually a fair amount this time because of how horrible Trump is.

    (Bothsiderism usually works if both sides are sane. Not with Repubs because they aren’t. )

  126. 126.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    God, no. Covid has been hard for all of them- for kids. I’m taking that into account. He is also close with my middle son- the electrician- and middle son bought a house and moved an hour away. Youngest used to see middle nearly every day and now he rarely sees him.

  128. 128.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: No one came out of that scrape looking great, IMO, but the most potentially constructive part was the conversation about organization, and quite contrary to my nature, that’s what I’ve been trying to focus on. :)

  129. 129.

    different-church-lady

    @Betty Cracker: Saying I understand things correctly (which is always hazardous territory), Spanberger’s accusations were on a private conference call, but AOC then took the spat public.

    This is really not a good time to be spotlighting disunity.

  131. 131.

    germy

    @Fair Economist:  But the moderates are right that divisive slogans like Defund the Police hurt us badly with swing voters

    I like how Biden avoided that trap when reporters tried to corner him:

    He said of course we’re not going to defund the police.

    But deep in his policy statement (where reporters are too lazy to read) he says police departments will have to prove they’ve made progress in reforming themselves before they can qualify for funds.

    People like Nora O’Donnell thought they could trip him up, but he just smiles at them.

  132. 132.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    I agree.  If nothing else, I think GA proves the importance of it.

    I’ve said for a while now that the Dems have not developed an adequate replacement for white churches, unions, and, frankly, old time party bosses when it comes to organizing.

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: Right, but it doesn’t seem that the organizing part of what was said is what is raising people’s ire.  Except for those she triggers who get angry about everything she does or doesn’t do.

  136. 136.

    Betty Cracker

    @Fair Economist: I agree, but I also think the lefties have a point in that if we focus on never frightening Joe Manchin or offending Michael Bloomberg, voters wonder what the hell we even stand for. That’s not a new problem, of course.

  137. 137.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat: Sure he would.  Coaching football at a top level would get him all kinds of short cuts in the process.  But that’s a different issue.

    ETA: Corrected a typo.

  138. 138.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Betty Cracker: But she’s criticizing the Dems for not doing what we have been doing. That’s what pisses me off. She is speaking from a place of ignorance. Whether willful or not, I can’t tell. We’ve been building a robust ground game for some time. Perhaps not in all states, but certainly in mine.

  139. 139.

    Gin & Tonic

    Boy, talk about hot buttons. Kay specifically tried to avoid the ideological fight and talk just about nuts and bolts, and we’re off to the races anyway…

  140. 140.

    Just One More Canuck

    @Spanky: Neil Young got it right about Alabama almost 50 years ago, and he could have written it last week

    You got the rest of the union to help you along
    What’s going wrong?

  142. 142.

    Kay

    So this is Elissa Slotkin. A moderate who runs in a swingy, Trump district in Michigan. She thinks it needs work too:

    “The brand of the national Democratic Party is mushy. People don’t know what we stand for, what we’re about. So, every two years when the new flavor of attack comes out, it’s easy to convince a portion of the population that those attacks are true, because they still don’t know our brand,” Slotkin said. “I think that’s the real strategic problem for the Democratic Party. It’s not any one line of attack; it’s not any one slogan. It’s that the underlying brand is mushy. And until we get that right, until we really work that out, we’re going to have a problem every two years.”

  143. 143.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly:a conspiracy theory that falsely claims an intelligence agency supercomputer and program, purportedly named Hammer and Scorecard, could have flipped votes nationally

    They’re never going to run out of conspiracy theories, are they?

    sigh

  144. 144.

    Hoodie

    @Haroldo: Shows how powerful tribalism is.  There is absolutely nothing in his resume that suggests senatorial material or even Director of Sanitation. He was generally a crappy – not even mediocre – coach, had 2 good years at Auburn, but that’s it.  Horribly failed business ventures.   It’s not like the guy is Nick Saban or even a perennial also-ran.   I guess white folks in Alabama set the bar at “not a pedophile.”

  145. 145.

    different-church-lady

    @Another Scott: Well, true, but I’m thinking more about learning to be aware of how one expresses one’s thoughts. It took me five years of adulthood to realize I was doing it rather wrong all too often, and here, thirty years later, I’m still working on getting it right.

    My parents were rather clueless about all this, and I got lucky that I had enough inherent sensitivity to realize that the bad reactions I was getting were my problem, and that I needed to either figure that shit out or have a miserable life.

  146. 146.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @danielx:Chances of survival ranking right up there with his chances of ascending bodily into heaven, wafted aloft on the good wishes of his followers.

    The Passion of The Donald? Has Jon McNaughton done this yet?

  151. 151.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Fair Economist: Anybody who says something remotely controversial or emotional in a conference call with a couple hundred participants and expects it to stay private is a moron. Spanberger is ex-CIA – has she forgotten everything she learned about opsec?

  152. 152.

    Fair Economist

    @germy: Biden handled the whole Defund the Police business perfectly. Abjure the slogan, embrace the actual policy. One of the insanities of the focus group I read about was that the voters *still* believed the defunders might control Biden while they thought Republicans would never do things the whole party swears to like forced birtherism and killing health insurance.

  155. 155.

    Baud

    @Kay: I don’t disagree.  But I think it’s hard to come up with a brand that enough of our wildly diverse people can agree on.

  157. 157.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:

    Kay,  from day one of this dispute , I have been saying this in not an AOC thing.  It is an argument between “better message” versus better more modern campaigns.  Luckily Jayapal, Beto and Doug Jones have now said the same, so I think the Congresscritter from NY can now step back (white guys have now weighed in).

    You have been on this beat for always.  And I took it all in.  Messaging was the Ryan/Molton complaint against Pelosi (perhaps with a little age and  lady parts thing thrown in). Now both fully back her.

    Social media, going where new voters are (like Twitch), knowing your district intimately, making a connection, letting people know who you are deep down.  That is always a good way to beat deceptive Republican propaganda.  Then, get a tone of your voters to the polls.

    As for messaging, one group can never prevail over another regarding what is their district’s necessary message.  Yesterday? Ayanna Presley said:

    Unity at the expense of my equality and my freedom and my existence and my safety is not an option….

    But everyone thinks campaigns can be better run.

  162. 162.

    different-church-lady

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    She is a future star,

    No, she’s a current star. If she navigates all this correctly, she’ll continue to be a star but also a leader.

    but I think way too many people, left, center-left, and center, pay way too much attention to what she says.

    And why do we suppose that is?

    I really hate to say this, but she shares a trait with Trump: they both suck all the oxygen out of any room they’re in.

  163. 163.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @SFAW:
    Argue the only way the polling could have been that off was outright cheating from Florida election officials and cite numerous documented times the state of Florida has tried to fix the COVID infection and death numbers for political reasons.

  168. 168.

    Amir Khalid

    @BR:

    So as of this morning, Trump is represented in his PA lawsuit by…a divorce attorney.

    I find that somehow … fitting.

  169. 169.

    Fair Economist

    @Betty Cracker: And I’d agree with the progressives we don’t have to to cater to the Conservadems in everything. Those swing voters were generally supportive of BLM, higher taxes, cutting greenhouse emissions, sensible gun control, etc. The problem looks to be the extreme Abolish xxx and Defund xxx slogans, which misrepresent our actual proposals, even those by progressives.

  170. 170.

    Jeffro

    @geg6:Yeah, but I’m pretty sure she had accomplishments bigger than a BA or BS in phys ed and being a college football coach.

    I know I’ve beat this to death, but we need to up the requirements for national offices (not just president, although that one’s obviously the most important).

    It’s a big country.  We’ll still get Elizabeth Warrens who are willing to run for state rep (and win, and serve a term) before they can run for Senator.

    I don’t want Representative Taylor Swift, Senator Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, or President Mark Cuban unless they’ve been willing to put in the work for a few years first.  And think of the benefits: no more quack runs for the White House!

    Something that shuts up Marianne Williamson, Kanye West, and DJT Jr in a single stroke is intrinsically a good thing!!  =)

  172. 172.

    sdhays

    @Haroldo: The problem with Tuberville is that he’s the perfect representative for Alabama Republicans, and that’s a large majority of the state: racist, stupid, and nasty.

  173. 173.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I only had one and we had a shared tragedy…  Still he was a total teenage jerk at times.  And I undoubtedly was a total parent jerk at times (but way less likely).  He learned techniques to calm me down (staring impassively without responding when I was ranting about him getting his damn applications done! For example).  He just let me burn that put because he knows I don’t hold grudges and move on very quickly to problem solving after blaming.  With him, when he would do something harsh and hurtful, I would leave, go back in a half hour or so — or sometimes even text him if he had retreated to his room — and tell him it was not OK to treat me that way.  It was some kind of code between us, I guess, because he always apologized and got less reactive.

    Fast forward to now — he is eager to come home for winter break.  Ok, my cooking is part of the allure.

  174. 174.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Soprano2: Yes, well “Give us Liberty and give us Death!” seems to be the motto for the Midwest now. Doubtless those REAL American parents will take comfort in that COVID will mean they won’t have to go to their kid’s gay marriages.

  175. 175.

    Jeffro

    @SFAW:Thought exercise: would more money be brought in from that, or from owning the beer concession near the graves of Trump, Barr, Miller, et al.?

    I’m bringing my own 12-pack and drinking it in line. ;)

  176. 176.

    Yarrow

    @Kay:

    “The brand of the national Democratic Party is mushy. People don’t know what we stand for, what we’re about.

    This is absolutely true. I even had some Republicans who I worked on getting to vote Biden (and they did!!!) say exactly that to me. They don’t know what Democrats are. Since Dems don’t have a distinct brand it’s much easier for attack branding to stick.

  178. 178.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I like Slotkin as an analyst because she is willing to look at the moderate brand. Instead of reflexively punching Left part of what she’s asking is why they haven’t defined themselves enough to withstand being branded as AOC. AOC has a brand. They were able to brand Spanberger as AOC because Spanberger doesn’t have one. That wouldn’t work in reverse. An attack on AOC that she’s secretly a centrist would not be persuasive.

  179. 179.

    Aleta

    @Betty Cracker:  I hope people in the different groups start falling in love.  Poignant and startling plot twists in the bi-cultural relationships.  The UN is revolutionized.  Ice Age cooking shows take off.   New restaurants open.    Geologic mysteries are solved.  Some people work  together to abate climate change.

  181. 181.

    Fair Economist

    @Yarrow: It’s hard for us to have a brand at this point, because we have basically all the non-crazies and non- fascists. That is necessarily a big tent.

  182. 182.

    PJ

    @Baud:

     

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    @Kay: to my knowledge, AOC hasn’t made any comments about basic organizing (unlike Doug Jones, who said that the DCCC and DSCC need to focus on the electorate in districts/states year round, rather than on candidates and only during elections.) In the NYT article, AOC complained that representatives didn’t take her advice about running their campaigns, which was that they should invest massively in digital ads (IIRC, she spent over $5 million on Facebook this year).

  183. 183.

    different-church-lady

    OK, just what the fuck is this “brand” that we’re supposed to have? What’s the GOP brand? Fascism? Authoritarianism? Law and Order™? Make Libs Cry? It’s not a god-damned candy bar, it’s a complicated picture full of millions of problems that need to get solved, and we’re supposed to pick one and come up with a logo?

  185. 185.

    Immanentize

    @hueyplong: PACER sucks, but over all the years I’ve been forced to use that portal, at least since this century started, I have never had a misfiling because of the system. It just doesn’t happen.

    The only thing I could think of besides they are lying liars, is the Buttle/Tuttle mistake in the movie Brazil.

  186. 186.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I agree.  People still think of the Dem moderates as if it’s still the 1990s, when they had a shtick.  They are a hollow shell of what they once were.  But they win in swing districts that we need (let’s not forget that Spanberger ended up winning, even if she got overly nervous about it), and they are media darlings because they talk of bipartisanship.  But they have no core left, as far as I can tell.

  188. 188.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jeffro: Sadly, we might be headed in the opposite direction. I read something that seemed half in jest the other day (here or elsewhere, I can’t recall) that maybe the answer is to find a liberal celebrity who’s aware of his or her limitations (that’s the hard part!) and willing to listen to advisors to run for president. President Brad Pitt? President Taylor Swift? I mean, people are so goddamned dumb that 70M+ voted for a bloated old has-been reality TV figure. Maybe they’d go ape-shit for Ryan Gosling.

  189. 189.

    Immanentize

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    They were complaining that she claimed ‘progressive policies’ would have gotten swing district politicians reelected.

    Link please. To my knowledge she never said this.

  191. 191.

    Calouste

    The good thing about making passing the citizenship test a requirement for running for federal office is that if the white supremacists want to make it harder for immigrants to become citizens, they make it harder for themselves to get elected, and vice-versa. Because these assholes aren’t the brightest.

  193. 193.

    Jeffro

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, okay, since you said so.

    Why am I wrong, again?  I don’t remember there ever being an argument attached to this.

    It was the Taylor Swift comment, wasn’t it?  =)

  196. 196.

    Baud

    I would be interested in hearing what Katie Porter and Lauren Underwood have to say, as they have found the formula for winning in GOP districts without compromising their brand or their principles.

  198. 198.

    Immanentize

    @different-church-lady: AOC did not take them public — a reporter was on the call and pushed it out.  AOC wasn’t even quoted in the first reports and may have said nothing.  But Jayapal and Tlaib spoke up.

  199. 199.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Rep. Katie Porter
    @RepKatiePorter

    ·16h

    I’m running for Deputy Chair of

    @USProgressives
    for the 117th Congress. Representing a Republican district, I know firsthand that a bold, progressive agenda is the right policy for America *and* a winning political message.

  200. 200.

    PJ

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    @Betty Cracker: that was a private call that a member (probably a Justice Dem) leaked in order to set up a weekend media campaign (NYT, Tapper, Politico) to promote AOC and the Justice Dems as a counter-narrative to the Biden/Harris victory, trying to bolster the narrative that Justice Dems were responsible for Biden’s victory (AOC claimed that Tlaib, who pointedly refused to endorse Biden, and who this year got 17 percent less of the vote than in 2018, was responsible for pulling Biden to victory in Michigan), while moderates were responsible for the Congressional losses.

  203. 203.

    artem1s

    @Baud:

    When I see something is BREAKING news, I don’t have to assume the worst anymore.

    when I see BREAKING news I will be able to assume it’s not just the media slavering over another twitter rant from the water closet in the east wing.

  205. 205.

    Immanentize

    @Just One More Canuck:

    I heard ol Neil ding about her
    I heard ol Neil put her down
    Neil Young must remember
    Southern man don’t need him around anyhow.

    Huge applause line in Montgomery and Birmingham.

  207. 207.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: agree on the ‘sadly’ part.

    I don’t want President George Clooney, even if he would represent 99% of my policy views and beats me by 20 IQ points.  But if he wants to work his way up like everyone everywhere, learn the ropes, get a reputation in that line of work, then sure, let him run and I hope he wins.

    We don’t put student teachers – even popular, energetic ones full of  promise – into school superintendent positions.  Why would we do something like that when our whole country and the immense power of the presidency is at stake?

    Anyway, I’ll just add it to The List of Things I’m Not Getting For Christmas.  (It’s quite a list ;)

  208. 208.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker:My understanding is the media took the spat public.

    A leaked caucus conference call was a story in Axios/on twitter. AOC went to the New York Times and amplified the dispute. And if she had stopped at talking about better/modernized campaigns, things probably would have ended there. But she said this:

    So I need my colleagues to understand that we are not the enemy. And that their base is not the enemy. That the Movement for Black Lives is not the enemy, that Medicare for all is not the enemy

    So, besides declaring herself “their base” (that phrasing fascinates me), she’s accusing unnamed (of course) colleagues of treating BLM as “their enemy”. Who? How? Is she talking about James Clyburn? Are there things she needs James Clyburn to understand?
    I have trouble with addressing “Medicare for all is not the enemy”, because it’s incoherent, but MFA is a good slogan, as opposed to a bad slogan, but it falls apart when people understand it means eliminating private insurance. As Biden likes to say, he won the primary, “the base”, by not opposing BernieCare. He got more votes in AOC’s district than she did.
    And if people want me to talk about white guys saying stupid things: Beto O’Rourke effectively ended a promising career in electoral politics with “Damn right we’re gonna take your AR15s away!” You can say that’s all well and good and for a noble cause, but Tim Miller and Rick Wilson both said TX Rs thought if O’Rourke hadn’t tried to run for President of Left Twitter in 2019, he could have taken a serious run at Cornyn in 2020. He can still organize, and maybe he’ll be back as a candidate. In the meantime, Mitch McConnell is gonna be Majority Leader for two more years. Slogans have consequences.

  209. 209.

    Gin & Tonic

    WaPo reporting more than 130 Secret Service officers are COVID-positive or in quarantine because of contact with someone who is.

  213. 213.

    Betty Cracker

    @PJ: There are a lot of kooky anti-AOC conspiracy theories out there, so I take stories like that with a mound of salt. I don’t agree with everything she says, but I don’t think she’s a cyborg from Planet Bernie sent to destroy the Democratic Party either.

  221. 221.

    PJ

    @Omnes Omnibus: people complain about not knowing what the Democratic “brand” is because they don’t pay attention to politics.  They could read what the Democratic platform is or go to Joe Biden’s web page, or listen to the debates, for that matter, but they won’t.  It doesn’t help that the media focuses on horse races and fights rather than policy (or what was in the hundreds of bills that the Democratic House passed under Trump.)

    This is why messaging is important, and the Democrats need to get much better at it.  They need clear and uncomplicated statements about what they are going to do, and why and how Republicans plan to stop them.  Blindly adopting activist slogans helps no one.

  224. 224.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Baud: I fear devoutly hope, before all is said and done, Trump and all his evil spawn and henchpersons will be seen in a tan orange jump-suits.

    FTFY, dagnabit! :^D

  229. 229.

    Croaker

    No such system exists, according to Krebs, election security experts and former US officials.

    Lies.  I have seen the historical documents.

    Colossus: The Forbin Project

  231. 231.

    schrodingers_cat

    The Vt senator could not even win a Presidential primary in neighboring blue Massachusetts in either 2016 or 2020.  The Roses are not the base. I don’t have to indulge the delusion of social media influencers who happen to be in the Congress.

    Anointing yourself and your group that can’t win except in heavily Democratic congressional districts ” the base” while insulting the actual base of black people who did the hard work and propelled Biden to victory from South Carolina in the primaries to the general election is insulting.

    It was the Roses who started Kamala is a cop in 2017, when it looked like she might throw her hat in the ring.

  232. 232.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker: though if you want to alter that to “Blame Bernie Sanders for Mitch McConnell”… that gets closer. Still not quite there. “A bunch of prominent Democrats wildly misreading the 2016 and 2018 election results and investing all their focus and energies on promoting slogans and ideas popular with twitter and unpopular with voters, including “the base”, hurt Democrats in down-ticket races in 2020″, that gets even closer.

  233. 233.

    PJ

    @Betty Cracker: what AOC said and did is not a conspiracy theory.  She chose to embark on a media campaign while the rest of the country was celebrating the Biden/Harris victory (that weekend, she had dozens of tweets attacking Democrats, one congratulating Biden and Harris, and three retweets of people celebrating the victory.)   Spanberger didn’t go public with her venting, and no other Democrat, to my knowledge, chose to take that moment to amplify his or her grievances.
    it’s hard not to take away something about motivations from that.

  234. 234.

    TS (the original)

    @Amir Khalid:

    Following through on the tweets – this is why she is the remaining lawyer – she wrote an op ed  against allowing an extension on postal votes receipt times in PA.

    Probably all because of this op ed: https://t.co/N2E5BncDnd
    — Nick (@njoldersma85) November 13, 2020

    From the link (the op ed)

    Election officials therefore have no way of verifying whether ballots were actually sent before the 8:00 p.m. deadline on election night, which means as long as they arrive before the extended return deadline, they will be counted, even if they were actually voted after Election Day.

    When ballots cast after Election Day are accepted, it fundamentally alters the nature of the election––something the Supreme Court reiterated after Wisconsin’s election mess in April. And with Pennsylvania’s long history of election fraud, extending the return deadline only increases opportunity for ballot fraud and illegal voting.

  238. 238.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: I kind of wonder about the “branding” bit. Since the Republicans have become crazier and crazier, the Democrats have had to absorb more and more people. What “brand” are we supposed to stand for? Other than “Not insane”?

  239. 239.

    Miss Bianca

    @Immanentize: I’m betting a reporter wasn’t on the call. We have enough bright-eyed, bushy-tailed “progressives” who would have been HAPPY to leak it.

    Ask me how I know! Or, actually, don’t.

  240. 240.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Marcus Johnson is an actual political scientist, and this (unthreaded) exchange uses nicer and fancier language than I would, but I think this explains a lot of the “left vs center” fight

    David Mihalyfy @mihalyfy · Nov 11
    Replying to @marcushjohnson
    My impression is that it’s also a combo of things, esp.:

    – strong in-group/out-group boundaries; and
    – “vanguard consciousness” (self-ideal as authentic & truly representative).

    The group has a discernible ideology, but it’s not their predictable & ad hoc rationalizations.

    Marcus H. Johnson @marcushjohnson
    · Nov 11
    Agree to a certain extent, but I think progressive is mostly a signifying label and the ideology is completely malleable. If Bernie in the campaign or AOC now said “drop defund the police” or took a conservative stance on an issue they’d immediately pick it up. Imo its all power

    Moreover I would argue they define themselves not by ideology but through opposition to mainstream Dems. So whatever stance mainstream Dems take on a salient issue they’ll just take counter “left” position. Its a power play. Which is why so similar to Trump “dominance politics”

    In a heterogeneous coalition building party like Dems this strategy consistently fails. But in the GOP where most voters/politicians are similar despite geography it can allow someone like Trump to essentially takeover the party.

    The difference is Johnson places AOC outside of that group informed by “opposition to the mainstream”, by that “Vanguard consciousness”.

  241. 241.

    Croaker

    @TS (the original):

    Yet in North Carolina

    • With about 98% of the expected vote counted, Donald Trump is up about 71,000 votes, a margin that narrowed slightly Thursday evening
    • Thursday was the deadline for ballots to be received as long as they were postmarked by election day.
    • Counties are scheduled to count any remaining votes and certify their final results today.
  243. 243.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Betty Cracker: Is this comment directed at me?

    She calls herself a Democratic socialist. She is a part of Justice Democrats who want to primary Democrats in safe Democratic seats, many of them black. She attacks Ds in the media from the left.

    These are facts, this is not a conspiracy theory

  247. 247.

    rikyrah

    @schrodingers_cat:

     

    She calls herself a Democratic socialist. She is a part of Justice Democrats who want to primary Democrats in safe Democratic seats, many of them black. She attacks Ds in the media from the left.

    These are facts, this is not a conspiracy theory

     

    CLAP CLAP CLAP

  248. 248.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Mask-wearing is unpopular with voters. Coal power is popular with voters (at least in some states!)

    I’m seeing this with the Lincoln Project folks too, and it’s frustrating. Science is not a popularity contest. Nor is economics, surprisingly.

    Progressive ideas are adaptations to catastrophes. You can stick your head in the sand, and certainly w.r.t. economic issues the Lincoln Project folks and others are doing just that. It’s fine that we can win elections, it’s fine that disaffected Republicans are also good at winning elections, but stark refusal to look at reality is what GOT us into this jam, and it’s not going to get us out.

    Somebody has to think of what will actually work. You can’t go by ‘what will win elections’ and call it wisdom. It’s tactics, and that might win battles but doesn’t win the peace.

  250. 250.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris Johnson: Mask-wearing is unpopular with voters. 

    Is it?

    I’m seeing this with the Lincoln Project folks too, and it’s frustrating. Science is not a popularity contest. Nor is economics, surprisingly.

    Progressive ideas are adaptations to catastrophes.

    I sense that you’re trying to make a point about BernieCare?

    and before I respond further: Am I correct that you used to post as “Applejinx”?

  251. 251.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s a name I’ve not heard in a long, long time… ;)

    Count the Trump voters. Mask wearing and accepting what a pandemic is, is not popular among voters.

    It is ALWAYS going to be possible to lie and say the coal jobs are coming back, and get votes out of that. Brazen bullshitting is part of the reactionary playbook. It’s bullshitting to say that our private-insurance system is able to survive COVID-19: that’s not going to work, there’s going to have to be something that does work, call it what you like.

    Fossil fuels and fracking and all that, are not going to work. We are already rocketing into a climate meltdown that is already delivering astonishing damage to us all in the form of storms, floods, and hurricanes, and this is entirely predictable. The fact that you can’t win elections on shutting down all the coal extraction and banning fracking doesn’t change what is happening RAPIDLY to the climate.

    COVID has dealt a death-blow to employment and the citizenry. Even if you can’t win elections on socialism and welfare promises (never mind swearing you will NOT help people in their material conditions!) you have to reckon with either killing all the poors or watching them go to some right-wing demagogue who is prepared, like Trump, to outright lie that he’s going to fix everything and bring the old days back. Which he can’t: it’s a lie. But if you just say ‘sorry! You didn’t aspire enough’ you leave ’em no choice.

    NO, ‘socialism and green energy and ban fracking’ will not win elections, and we have seen that. The thing is, just like with climate, we are out of time on a whole number of fronts.

    At least the Green New Deal is a massive jobs plan. And so should it be.

    And yeah… I got badly burned by ‘Rose Twitter’, the dirtbag left, and all that crowd. I bought into their stuff. They were only using these realities as a stalking horse: a bunch of ’em were Russian trolls of some kind or other. Putin uses people on every extreme to heighten the contradictions and drive us apart. I figured that out, and it changed me.

  252. 252.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris Johnson:

    Count the Trump voters. Mask wearing and accepting what a pandemic is, is not popular among voters.

    show me a poll that backs up your original statement that mask-wearing is unpopular. One thing that struck me at the Count the votes/Stop the votes rallies is that even the vast majority of the trumpkins were wearing masks. And you have to give them credit: I imagine masks are more uncomfortable for mouth-breathers.

    ignoring your next two incoherent paragraphs… did I trigger the blatherskyte by typing “Applejinx”? is it like the Beetelgeuse of logorrhea?

    a “public option” and hedging your bets on fracking can win elections, and then you can advance a green jobs plan, and while you’re gathering votes for a public option, which will help a lot of people, you can further Medicaid expansion, which also helps a lot of people. Or you can cling to slogans, lose elections, and send out tweets and give interviews that celebrate your own righteousness, your own vanguard consciousness, to borrow again from my new academic friends. I would’ve put it more crudely, something like: “You can masturbate to your own ideological boldness while people die”

    One of the things I resent most about Rose Twitter is that they are teaching a generation that “incrementalism” is a corrupt choice made by people called “corporatists”. Incrementalism is how things happen in this country. People clinging to their current, and often shitty, health insurance aren’t doing it because out of ideology, because they’re “corporatists”. They do that because they’ve achieved precarious equilibrium in life, and they’re terrified of rocking the boat.

  253. 253.

    J R in WV

    @Kay:

    No more three figure salaries for hundreds of Trump hires who haven’t done a lick of work since last January.

    Don’t you mean six figure salaries? ‘Cause no one works for less than $999 anymore. I think most of the White House money is in the $150,000 – $175,000 range…

  254. 254.

    J R in WV

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I’ve done something to my left knee, so I’ve decided to rest it for a week or so and see what happens. Not being able to exercise is going to make me crabby

    When my right knee went out on me going down the steps to do laundry downstairs I was fortunate to be holding the railing, or I would have been really hurt. I had to ice my knee and put a compression bandage on it for days before I could even go to the Dr.

    It took so long to see an ortho surgeon that it was about healed up. He recommended arthroscopic work, which I’m not sure really improved things past were they would have been if I had just maintained doing ice and light exercise. So patience and ice alternated with heat may do what you need.

  255. 255.

    J R in WV

    @danielx:

    What? I just purchased a new Corvette with those sweet Soros bucks. Has Cole been holding out on you?

    A NEW Corvette? Come on man, you know they haven’t produced a real Corvette since 1967!!!!

  258. 258.

    taumaturgo

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This last sentence brought to mind the infamous Obama quote. “They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion…”

    They do that because they’ve achieved precarious equilibrium in life, and they’re terrified of rocking the boat.

  259. 259.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: These things were why I was all in for Warren, and voted for Biden.

    I think you’re seeing enemies where they don’t exist. I’m all for your incrementalism :)

    I also have a brother who STILL refuses to wear a mask ever. I’m certain it’s code for a political statement. Nobody is willing to let him weasel out of what he is, anymore

    Also:

    The fact that you can’t win elections on shutting down all the coal extraction and banning fracking doesn’t change what is happening RAPIDLY to the climate.

  260. 260.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris Johnson: I will stipulate that on a poll sample based of your parents’ known-on-this-blog offspring, mask-wearing has a fifty percent disapproval rating.

    @taumaturgo: Okay, Obama was right and so am I. Since I’m not running for office, I don’t have to worry about massaging the feelings of stupid motherfuckers.
    and along those lines: “comes to mind”? Did you borrow one, you little halfwit?

  261. 261.

    H-Bob

    She was the head of the CFPB (as a political appointee) although her first elective office was as a Senator.  She did have experience in government and politics (testifying before Congress) and knows our WWII ally was Communist!

  265. 265.

    Toxic

    Being the first to win 78 million votes is a rather dubious claim.  For how long has it even been possible?   Population growth is going to automatically eliminate the majority of presidential elections and those that ran right off the bat.  So honestly how many elections can this really be compared,  two?  Maybe?   

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