.
Odds are every one of these ‘plans’ is the random fantasizing of a defeated narcissist, but still: ROOTING FOR INJURIES.
this ends in tears but not for fox
— kilgore trout, four seasons appreciator (@KT_So_It_Goes) November 12, 2020
One p.s.:
Fox News could very easily reverse the situation by blowing smoke up Trump’s ass about needing to “team up”.
He’d just shift to saying he was “taking on corrupt mainstream media”.
He doesn’t care what the excuse is. He just needs one.
— The Hoarse Whisperer (@TheRealHoarse) November 13, 2020
Unsure who's going to win here because OOH, Murdoch is an infinitely better businessman but OTOH, what's Fox gonna do, tell its audience "So… that guy we've been telling you to believe over the rest of the world for years in the face of all evidence? About that…" https://t.co/v5XTFhGp9N
— Starfish Who Just Wants To Grill (@IRHotTakes) November 12, 2020
Thread, but I would add here: Most damaging thing Fox might do to him post-election is just *not engage with him.*
Right now, they have incentive to cover "Media/Dems are being v unfair to Trump!" But then there'll be other targets: Biden admin, AOC &c. They may just… move on https://t.co/uglQWFrKJI
— James Poniewozik (@poniewozik) November 12, 2020
it's also sort of saying the quiet part loud about fox news. a president should never be able to say "I'm the one who made you successful" to a news network https://t.co/GVb5jIJUV1
— Gerry Doyle (@mgerrydoyle) November 13, 2020
I hope Trump goes back to hosting celebrity apprentice but this time whenever he tries to fire anyone, they sue him and refuse to leave
— Sarah Cooper (@sarahcpr) November 13, 2020
The GOLDEN GOOSE EGG, two-time loser of the popular vote!
He has come up with a new nickname for himself. And now I have a mental image of him laying eggs. https://t.co/UFb2ptLn41
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) November 12, 2020
HumboldtBlue
If you boil a funny bone do you get laughing stock?
geg6
I agree with the sentiment that FOX would win this by just ignoring him. A significant minority of his voters are just lazy and aren’t all in on the Q shit and other crazy conspiracies. They’ll keep watching FOX because they always have and some of them can barely work a remote, let alone find OANN or Newsmax.
Chetan Murthy
Wouldn’t it be great if he convinced Hannity to jump ship, maybe a few others, and then, well, they found out that Shitler, unlike Hyman Roth, doesn’t make money for his partners? Man, that’d be some good times!
Keith P.
On a related note, the son of one of the suspected people behind QAnon parley’ed a comment stating that yes, his father has posted as QAnon. He’s now claiming it’s a bogus account/hack.
West of the Rockies
@HumboldtBlue:
You have got to be a dad.
Aleta
dmsilev
We talked about this down towards the bottom of the previous open thread, but it looks like Trump’s team has thrown in the towel on (what passes for) substantial litigation and now just are arguing about a few votes here and there:
Trump campaign jettisons major parts of its legal challenge against Pennsylvania’s election results
So, they’re not really trying to “win” the vote in PA (and therefore, the overall election) but instead are either trying to throw up enough chaff to “discredit” President-to-be Biden in the eyes of Trump supporters or are just going through the motions to make President-in-name-only Trump feel better about “being a fighter”. Or both.
Of course, the lawsuit that they just dropped was pretty heinous, saying “600,000 votes don’t count because we say so.”, and sadly that’s pretty much par for the course for today’s GOP.
dmsilev
@Aleta: Do we have to bring her and the rest of the family back? Also, did we guarantee them a soft landing, or is lithobraking an acceptable solution?
West of the Rockies
@geg6:
They’re also an aged audience that won’t take well to new faces, new shows, new advertisers, etc.
HumboldtBlue
@West of the Rockies:
Nope.
Just easy
And old.
Was on a Zoom with friends last week and one niece pulled out the joke — what’s black and white and read all over? — Being the genius I am, I got it straight away and dunked on her second-grade self.
Then me, her father, and mother wondered if kids are gonna get the context of that joke in 10 years. That family still reads a printed newspaper but the numbers who do keep melting away.
Kay
I think they have to find jobs for all the low quality hires, most urgently the grown Trump children.
Good! Put them all in Trump tv slots. It means I’l never hear them again. I nominate Ivanka for the morning show with the couch. She can interview Bannon.
smike
@Aleta:
Buh-bye.
Danielx
@Aleta:
Not soon enough.
Also, in any fight between Trump and Fox: rooting for injuries.
Kay
@dmsilev:
They told the suckers they were going to the supreme court. I read Trumpy Twitter last night and they all think Kavanaugh and Barrett are going to save the regime. I think Kavanaugh and Barrett probably would have if we had only got Pennsylvania but now they’d have to knock out a coupla states with their legal imagineering, and that’s too tall an order. Terrifying though. If Biden was relying on PA and 50k votes we’d be looking at a coup. I think we came really close to literally losing the country.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
gotta go far to avoid extradition, I guess
dmsilev
@Kay: I think there’s a big enough block on the Supreme Court with the “not going to touch this with a ten foot pole” attitude. As evidence, note that they haven’t revisited that 4-4 decision that effectively let PA count the (not very many) late-arriving ballots. But yes, if it were close enough I think you’re absolutely right that they would have tried it.
frosty
@Aleta: “To the moon,
AliceIvanka, to the moon!!!”Another Scott
“Hey Rudy! What crimes haven’t we done yet? Yeah, let’s do that one, too…”
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
I feel like we lost a lot of lead time with the transition and they ruined the election anyway so now there’s very little upside -for us- for them leaving like decent people so now I hope it’s as humiliating as possible and they have to be physically kicked out. We should at least get that after what we’ve been through.
Redshift
Uhhh, I don’t see why that would be a problem. Fox and the GOP have pretty frequently told their audience that they should believe the exact opposite of what they’ve been told to believe for years, and they swallow it unquestioningly.
HumboldtBlue
Let us all conduct ourselves in a mannerly fashion.
caring & sensitive
@HumboldtBlue: When I was in the 8th grade in 1958 we said it was a bleeding nun
frosty
@Kay: I like the way you think! I’m all for throwing their shit out on the lawn.
SFAW
@dmsilev:
First time I’ve seen that term. I like it. Maybe come up with an acronym for it:
“System of Positive Lithobraking and Adverse Trajectory” or some such
ETA: You’re the physics/engineering guy, so I expect some help here
Sm*t Cl*de
@Redshift:
We have always been at war with Trumpania.
Kay
@frosty:
Too late! They could have reserved some small shred of dignity but they chose not to and they’ve done the damage to the country already. Now I think they should stay so we can cut off the power and tow their cars.
SFAW
@HumboldtBlue:
Zebra in a blender?
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Kay:
Kavanaugh and Barrett would have painted large targets on their backs if they had done that. Their lives would have been effectively over imo
HumboldtBlue
@SFAW:
There it is.
My dinner table joke circa eight years old was: what’s green and dangerous? A frog with a hand grenade.
@caring & sensitive:
Uncle/Auntie Stosh/Sonia? Is that you?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I don’t see Channel Trump All the Trump, All the Trump Time working at the level of Fox News. The only reason Trump is a ratings hit is because he is president, 21st he goes back the Celebrity Apprentice on MSNBC level freak show.
Considering how gullible their audience is, I can see Fox News turning them on Trump too. All does Fox needs to do start bringing up how Trump was a life long Democrat until he ran for office.
Aleta
@Kay: It couldn’t be clearer when you look at everything his organization tried in the last 9 days to overturn democracy and stay in power after the election. Sure one can mock their failures as inept, and be proud about the people who stopped them, but the desire and intention were still serious.
He talked early on about staying in power, he admires dictators, he did loyalty checks and firings, he asked for a big military parade, he turned the WH into a stage for propaganda, he sent federal forces to intimidate protesters. Then he made as good an attempt at authoritarian takeover as he could muster, after the election.
dmsilev
@SFAW: Much as I’d love to take credit for coining the term, I can’t; it is in fact a real thing.
(the end of that article cites the game Kerbal Space Program; that’s where I became familiar with the term)
Calouste
@Another Scott: IANAL, but I’d think that whatever is in the campaign finance laws is just a reference to other laws that state “you can’t use personal data for a purpose that that person hasn’t explicitly given permission for”, and that the campaign finance laws set fairly narrow limits on the purpose for campaign data. The problem of course is that if you don’t enforce data privacy laws in a campaign context, they become less enforceable in other contexts as well, which is why as that tweet states, violations are routinely prosecuted.
Or I might be totally wrong here, in which case I’m happy for someone knowledgeable to correct me.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
What does everybody think is going to become of the so-called “alt-right” now that Trump has been defeated?
Chetan Murthy
@Aleta: As was pointed-out elsewhere (LG&M, I think, maybe other places) he also tried *before* the election. That’s what the sabotage of the PostOffice was all about, all the lawsuits to stop states changing rules in the face of the pandemic.
SFAW
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
“That” == what, exactly?
SWMBO
@Aleta: Do they need help packing?
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@dmsilev:
Yeah! It’s the Greek version of “air braking”. It’s a technique commonly used by spacecraft to slow down and enter orbit around a celestial body
Geoduck
@SFAW: Or if you want to be less grisly, a zebra with a sunburn.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@SFAW:
Basically, had thrown out hundreds of thousands of ballots on some bullshit spurious legal grounds, crowning Trump in the process. The country would’ve exploded
jl
Looks like Trump has his own stages of grief, a little different than for the rest of us. It includes desperate grifting, for example, and vicious lust for revenge taken on out everyone around him. And Trump sort of lurches back and forth through them randomly.
Will take someone smarter and with more stomach than I have to sort it out. After the book comes out, I’ll watch for a BJ post to explain it to me.
Delk
Fox will make more money railing against a democratic presidency than they will rallying a republican presidency and that especially includes trump.
SFAW
@SWMBO:
I’d like to see someone pack them all into boxes, in a manner similar to D.P. Gumby’s flower arranging.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@jl:
Just as long as it’s not the MAGAHabs one
: )
West of the Rockies
@Kay:
Oh, great… so much to look forward to: Cooking with Eric; Kushner and Chums; maybe a late-night horror fest–Miller Chiller.
SFAW
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
Umm, you realize that “litho” translates to “stone,” not “air,” right?
ETA: Which I assumed was dmsilev’s point, hence my proposed acronym.
Viva BrisVegas
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): They stay stupid, but get meaner.
The Secret Service will need to be on their toes to protect Biden and Harris.
West of the Rockies
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I hear Uranus is nice this time of year.
Buh-dum-CHHHH!
SFAW
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
For a week. Maybe.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@SFAW:
Eh, I was technically correct and not wrong. Which is the best kind of correct : )
joel hanes
@Aleta:
I would gladly contribute to a gofundme to send the entire Trump family to the moon, and then to Mars.
jl
Thinking of the greatness that might have been. Say a real leader, some sort of, for example, Baud XXXX!! lost an election. Tie on a little beer drunk, sleep it off, hitch a ride out to the cousin’s house in Victorville. One and done, dignified. Presidential.
Me, hell, I’d find a place for the wife and kids asap after the election. From what I’ve heard, the FLOTUS is always “Let’s book this stinking joint, pronto”. So, that would help to smooth familial feelings. Ask the new chump when he or she wants to move in. If I got a new place Jan 5, OK fine, goofball, you were dumb enough to want this job, come on over with your truck on Jan 6.
Start to work on the library. First, want to keep some things out, so shred the ‘art’ photography.
Go through the WH garden and glean whatever looks promising, see if any potatoes left to dig up. Need to be thrifty after you get thrown off that government salary.
joel hanes
@HumboldtBlue:
When I was in middle school, the punchline to that joke was
“A nun run over by a tank”
SFAW
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
Back atcha
If that’s what you need to tell yourself, OK I guess.
SFAW
@joel hanes:
Did tanks even exist when you were in middle school?
Wapiti
@dmsilev: I’ve also heard it used in regards to wingsuit BASE jumping. (BASE jumping is parachuting or wingsuiting from fixed objects: Buildings, Antennas, Spans (bridges), Earth (cliffs, etc.))
joel hanes
@HumboldtBlue:
Q: What’s purple and goes SLAM SLAM SLAM SLAM?
A: A four-door grape.
Q: What’s purple and commutes?
A: An Abelian grape
Aleta
@Chetan Murthy: For sure. Then even after all the pre-election suppression and propaganda efforts had failed, his organization tried their best in several states and courts to overturn a completed democratic election and incite violence they hoped would rise to support them. A seriously deadly intention, not just another failed caper to laugh at.
Aleta
@frosty: “One of these days, Ivanka, …”
Chetan Murthy
@Aleta: attempted murder of our Republic, the fuckers.
joel hanes
@SFAW:
Only crude ones.
jl
@joel hanes:
” Q: What’s purple and commutes?
A: An Abelian grape ”
To paraphrase a great mathematician, you never understand math humor, you just get used to it.
Edit: though in this life you have to get used to lots of things. Should math humor be added to the list? Just asking the question…. is all…
Aleta
@jl: List some rugs and furniture and candlesticks on Taobao.
jl
@Aleta: I don’t know about that. Damn feds would come after me for filching gummint property. Who do you think I am, a crook like Trump.
I was already stretching it filching government gnarly old winter squash and wilted ‘taters from the WH garden. I’d have to go to the Secret Service and ask “Hey, can I take this? My pension don’t start for a while.’
HumboldtBlue
Men, think with your dicks.
Winston
According to the Atlanta Journal Courier, the recount is going splendidly with no major discrepancies as the count continues. The Trump campaign and republicans in general bemoan the legitimacy of the recount. I wonder how the people of Georgia will feel about being demonized after the recount shows a Biden win?
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Chetan Murthy:
@Aleta:
It’s not a laughing matter exactly, but I remember this
“And I would’ve gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for you meddling libtards!”
Chetan Murthy
@HumboldtBlue: Huh. I remember “covid toes”, but never “covid dick”. You’d think .. extremities, about the same size, hum … why the one and not the other?
mrmoshpotato
Giant foam fingers at the ready, Juicers!
HumboldtBlue
@Chetan Murthy:
Are you wearing pants?
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: What’s black and white and has trouble going through revolving doors?
A nun with a spear through her head.
Ian
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): that’s called a wink and a nod to violence.
Aleta
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): perfect
Pete Downunder
I love bad math jokes. Two plus two equals five for a sufficiently high value of two.
HumboldtBlue
@Omnes Omnibus:
How do you make holy water?
Boil the hell out of it!
Viva BrisVegas
@Pete Downunder: For a pollster 2 = 2 +/- 3.
So 2 + 2 can be anywhere between -2 and 10.
Pete Downunder
@Viva BrisVegas: very true. I have always thought that The Margin of Error would be a great band name.
mrmoshpotato
The White house has a T-Rex!
Raven Onthill
@Chetan Murthy: COVID does in fact sometimes attack testicles. Google around you’ll find cites.
Raven Onthill
Gods! Is this going to go on for more than two bleeping months?
Luciamia
@Winston: Georgia will probably feel, ala Jane Austen, ” You have now insulted me in every possible way.”
mrmoshpotato
@Raven Onthill:
Gods: Please be more specific.
mrmoshpotato
@Luciamia:
“And now I’m required to slap you with your own bones. Those are the rules.”
ByRookorbyCrook
Fox would wipe the floor with whatever trump media channel started. Murdoch doesn’t just have Fox. There are all the dailies, tabloids, radio, and streams. It would seem like all of the conservative media suddenly found out what a shit heel Trump was at once. The echo chamber will not allow a counter-harmony. So Trump cultists might dismiss Fox News, but when every other media starts repeating the same beat, the cultists will begin chanting. The line between political christ and anti-christ is razor thin.
As for the country rising up to protest the Supreme Court overturning the election? Wouldn’t happen. AA communities have had to endure much greater and longer lasting injustice for centuries and we, as allies, could only manage a few weeks of protest over the latest batch of wrongs. The majority of the US population is either ok with Trump rule (71 million+) or indifferent to the daily reality of the threat of Trump rule. There are many Biden voters who would not take part in any unrest and decry any civil protest. We had a preview in 2000. There was no revolution. The Black Lives Matter era of the last 6 years or so have shown the inattention of our fellow citizenry at large. Biden would not call for a protest. His legal team would fight whatever legal challenges until it was clear there was no remedy and would try to preserve what tatters of the government was left.
This sounds like a real defeatist screed and I don’t mean it that way, but I do not see a rise in left-wing militias. We try to make the system work. We try to repair it. We try to make it better for the future. We believe in the Nation and the power of government for positive change. It is hard to turn on that and fight against that same creation, for good or ill.
oatler.
@joel hanes:
What’s purple and lives under the sea?
Moby Grape Yeah, I know.
HumboldtBlue
For later today:
Frankensteinbeck
I told you worriers that Trump wouldn’t spend his lame duck period trying to destroy the country in revenge. He’s trying to destroy his allies in revenge. Narcissists can be so predictable.
@dmsilev:
Trump would love a coup, but for everyone else in the Republican Party this is pacifying the toddler. Besides, not conceding and demanding recounts are already a GOP tradition. All Trump is doing is dragging things out after it’s stupid to do so. You know, being Trump.
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
Most of MAGAdom will rebrand, like they have so many times before. The hardcore white supremacists will sink into whiny depression, their usual state, because they’re cowards who have been relying on a friendly Trump DoJ. They’ll hope for a white supremacist in 2024. God knows what they’ll get. Part of Trump’s appeal was being a moron.
Addendum: This is post-transition. They will do a fair amount of whining the next few months, with tiny amounts of violence while they still can. ‘Lone wolf’ terrorists are a small but real risk.
@ByRookorbyCrook:
If the election were overturned, California and New York would have seceded. They barely tolerated a legitimate Trump administration. Breaking the system would have left them no reason to stay in the US. Where that would have gone I have no idea, but Trump is damn near the only Republican in power who would want that.
Geminid
@ByRookorbyCrook: I wonder if OANN and Newsmax can survive with trump out of office. A third non-fox consevative network founded by trump sounds even less viable. I am a curious person, and one of the many reasons I look forward to Inauguration Day is to see what happens to trump’s power as a political leader. My theory is that when Joe Biden is sworn in, the 800 lb. gorilla will become a 400 lb. gorilla. Mixing metaphors, after that trump’s power will have a half-life, like an especially toxic radioactive isotope. Twenty months on the outside. In a couple years, I think he’ll only make the news when there are important developments in civil and criminal actions against him, or when the Trump Organization sells off another golf course. trump may wield a kind of negative power in the republican party, but nowhere else. Or at least that’s my theory.
Frankensteinbeck
@Geminid:
I think pretty much the same thing, except that he won’t last even that long. He has failed the Republican Party and white supremacy. Yeah, he was just what the base wanted, but asshole white supremacists are a dime a dozen. Having the power to deliver was crucial. Without the presidency, he’s just another schmuck. His financial and legal issues will make that worse. He can’t afford the rallies and network that might string out his popularity a little longer.
Tl:dr remember, folks, everything Trump touches turns to shit.
Robert Sneddon
@joel hanes: “What’s black and white and red and can’t turn round in an elevator?”
“A nun with a javelin through her.”
Robert Sneddon
@SFAW: Stratabraking is used when lithobraking just isn’t enough. See also “bathybraking” which is actually a real thing — there’s a “dead zone” of really deep water in the southern Pacific that’s the target graveyard for expended rocket stages and defunct satellites. Sometimes the rocketeers miss though (a lot of bits of Skylab were spread over central Australia, some parts were recovered and put into museums).
NeenerNeener
@Aleta: Is that where the Trumps plan on hiding from extradition?
cmorenc
@Kay:
Now that Kavenaugh and Barrett have lifetime seats on SCOTUS, you shouldn’t be so quick to assume their interests as SCOTUS members and federalist movement conservatives – or their personal loyalties, line up with Trump in election disputes or keeping him in office. Now that they have solidified a conservative majority on the court, their interests lie with maintaining the legitimacy of the instirution of the court, not with Trump personally – and a Biden presidency will be a stabilizing period during which (and after) they are solidly positioned to reign in any excess liberal drift, very possibly followed by a more stable GOP president, whereas Trump is an institutionally destabilizing force.
The best way to establish their bona fides as jurists is to demonstrate independence from Trump and reinforce the court as an institution is to refuse to be aboard a more egregious version of bush v gore ii, especially to help out someone as corrosively unstable as Trump. And Roberts is probably privately influencing them in that direction, to take the long view.
r
jonas
@Geminid: I tend to agree but for slightly different reasons. Deep down, Trump’s followers know that his whole norm-busting, tantrum-throwing, media-bashing schtick is just that — schtick. To pwn the libs. When he does his schtick on MSM networks, or even Fox, the pwnage is that much greater because these are “normal” TV networks that get picked up and retweeted by other outlets and everyone gets to see Trump bash his favorite targets. If he were to found his own network, or move exclusively to OANN or something, it would be all insanity, all the time, but with no pwnage because only QAnon-addled morons watch that network. It’s a massive circle-jerk and that just won’t really appeal to his base because they know no liberals will cry over what Trump, a failed ex-president, has to say to a propaganda network so over the top, Pravda is embarrassed by it.
Uncle Cosmo
Brings to mind a cartoon I saw waaaay back in the 80s: Dad & small son together in a room with about a dozen digital clocks. Caption: Daddy, what’s “clockwise”?
Also brings to mind “free rein” (widely misapplied, as Webster’s notes, as “free reign”).
evodevo
@Wapiti: Oh, THAT’S what “base” means…always wondered…never curious enough to look it up..
Chief Oshkosh
@Redshift: Yep, as that never Trumper GOP operative wrote, the GOP intentionally set out to create “reprogrammable meatbags,” and they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
Fuck ’em. Just scrape ’em off the sole of your boots and keep on walking.
evodevo
@Uncle Cosmo: Yes…as a horse owner, that rein/reign thingy drives me nuts…also am a grammar Nazi…that doesn’t help lol
Uncle Cosmo
Q: How can you tell if some guy is a mathematician, a physicist, or an engineer?
A: Ask him to prove the following theorem: All odd numbers are primes.
The mathematician will mutter, One, three, five, seven – ha! Proof by induction!
The physicist will stammer, One, three, five, seven – good so far – nine – um – eleven, thirteen – aha! Proof within experimental error!
The engineer will ask, What’s a prime?
—
I gots a few more engineer jokes as souvenirs of the 8.5 years when my employer called me one (& for what they paid me they coulda called me late for dinner for all I cared)…
Uncle Cosmo
@HumboldtBlue:
(Allan Sherman, “The Bronx Bird Watcher Song”)
Bill Arnold
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They’ll have to deal with the Emperor of Mars, Elon Musk. Musk does not tolerate threats to his ego.
Bill Arnold
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
Increased internal disputes and fractures, and also increased exogenous attempts to reshape and/or damage the alt-right (and QAnon), and also attempts to take it and/or parts of it over. It’s driven in large part by propaganda platforms highly friendly to (anonymous!) computational propaganda/influence and hand-crafted targeted propaganda/influence and ratfucking, and these can and will be used against it.
The Moar You Know
@HumboldtBlue: I think it’s been lost in the noise that while COVID does not make your unit fall off, it does cause massive penile damage for quite a few men, and many more lose their ability to get an erection, because of the savage amount of vascular damage that the disease inflicts. That should probably be publicized a lot more.
Bill Arnold
@ByRookorbyCrook:
Supreme Court overturning a 5-6 million vote popular vote lead and 306 electoral votes? Nope. That would not be accepted. You are wrong on this. Militias, perhaps/probably not.. Other tools, absolutely. And I don’t mean just the 2nd Amendment. There is a well-established non-violent toolset for stopping/reversing coups, that many people have been studying for many months, and if that doesn’t work, escalation.
Haroldo
@jl:
But what do we then call an inverted grape?
J R in WV
@dmsilev:
Anyone remember how much the Mars mission that lithobraked smack (SPLAT — I luv it!) into Mars because one set of engineers used traditional English measurements and the other set of engineers used the metric scientific system of measurements cost us?
Something like $300,000,000 if I recall correctly.
Plus all the lost science opportunity!
In 2020 dollars, that would be $511,085,690.28 hope those guys are now greeters at Walmart, obviously not competent as engineers.