Right now, the experts I follow on Twitter seem equally divided among
- Coup coup coup with a response of no, it’s an autogolpe
- They look like clowns but they are damaging the country
- Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die
There are also some more or less rational attempts to look at deadlines and the actual intentions of the various state officials.
I try to stick with the last, and what I see there is that the election will be decided fairly. With a few exceptions, like those two in Michigan, election officials and secretaries of state are doing their jobs with integrity.
Ignoring today’s clown show (what kind of hair dye dissolves in sweat? Shoe polish?), the courts are doing their job. The Trumpies are something like 1 – 30, and the one was solely on procedure.
With every unit that confirms the election results, the Trumpies have one fewer avenue to pursue. Events are closing in on them. Republican legislators in several of the swing states have stated they have no intention to go against the will of the voters.
Trump is following one of his customary gambits: sue and sue and sue until the other party runs out of money. His presidency has, in effect, been the infliction of an abuser on the country, and we are reacting to that. We are extremely sensitive to his actions, and we would just like them to stop. This is the end of the abuse, and Trump is reacting as abusers do. He can’t sue the American public, but he will try to keep the punishment going.
The legal fight is going against Trump.
The bureaucracy (with the sad exception of Emily Murphy) is standing on the side of law and order.
An article in Politico this morning said that Biden’s organization will ramp up public opinion for starting the transition. And, sure enough, the Chamber of Commerce and National Association of Manufacturers, good Republican organizations, called today for the certification of the transition. I suspect we will see more calls with every day that passes. The purpose is to pressure Republican members of Congress to pressure Trump.
I’m not fond of predictions, but it’s hard for me to see how Trump is doing himself any favors with any but the most extreme members of his party, perhaps 10% of the population. He will hurt Republican chances in the Georgia senate elections.
The Republican members of Congress who are sticking with him (most of them) should be shunned by all decent people. This whole business is making me think about the virtues of the practice of shunning. We have only one party now that wants to govern the country. We will have to deal with that.
For now, there is so much crazy that it’s hard to think about how things should be. Joe Biden has had literally thousands of people thinking about that since the spring, and he has plans. He is not allowing Trump to derail those plans.
We need to start the transition ASAP, but so far the consequences are not as dire as some make them out to be. Biden’s people have experience in government, and he’s got all those plans. The transition teams are probably focusing on what they can: mainly personnel choices. What they will learn when they have access to the civil servants in the agencies, who want to do a good job, is exactly how broken things are. That is the basis from which they will have to start.
The progress on the logistics of getting a vaccine produced and distributed is probably the most important area in which the transition teams need to be involved. But even there, it’s likely changes will need to be made.
So I see this period as something to be gotten through with my sanity intact, which means not getting involved in whether it’s a coup or an autogolpe or which Michigan official is more likely to break under Trump’s pressure. I’m pulling back to look at the bigger picture, and that looks like the country will get through this. If you feel like you need to do something, help campaign in Georgia or call your Republican members of Congress and tell them what you think.
Baud
Thank you, Cheryl. Agree completely.
Kristine
Thanks, Cheryl.
SiubhanDuinne
Autogolpe is a fine word. I’m delighted to add it to my personal lexicon.
Say this about the Trump Era: It’s done wonders for my vocabulary.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
Dotard is still my favorite.
cmorencok
It’s possible that Emily Murphy is too broke to afford being abruptly fired by Trump without having any other job lined up, especially nothing independent of the gop partisan network.. It could be that simple.
Nicole
Thanks, Cheryl. Yeah, this.
Two months to go.
Edmund Dantes
I really don’t like any of these takes that go on “no need to worry”
If someone tried to kill me, they fail only because their a ducking moron it doesn’t change the fact they are willing to try.
Which means the thing stopping them is their incompetency. Not any believe in norms, institutions, laws, et al.
They want to perform a coup. They just aren’t competent. And even with that rank incompetence people are willing to go along.
So we can’t just look forward. There needs to be consequences.
Professional sanctions for lawyers bringing insanely frivolous lawsuits that once in front of a judge they won’t even claim the thing they are suing for.
Politicians going along with the coup attempted need to pay for it.
But I think too many will dismiss this cause “oh look it’s a clown show, let’s just move on”.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
I was kind of hoping self-coup meant he was undermining himself.
MC
Thank you, Cheryl. I do agree, but my rational brain and emotional brain are two very different things.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
It’s a word that exceeds cromulence, although I knew and used it long before I ever heard of DJT.
*****
I’ve been reading King Lear:
Gin & Tonic
Thankfully, I do not have Republican members of Congress to call.
mrmoshpotato
Not-so-ceremonial-bashing-of-Trump-trash-bones by Lady Justice?
This last-attempted fascist hurrah is quite pathetic, but should still be beaten into the ground. Just ignore them whining that their Daddy Vladdy said they could have an authoritarian kleptocracy of their own.
natem
We shouldn’t be worried. We should be angry. These last few weeks should be ones we never forget. DougJ loves to fun on GOPers still holding a grudge about Bork 33 years later, but seriously this needs to be our Bork moment.
ant
My thinking is about the future.
They keep escalating.
The ridiculous redistricting efforts of 2010 locked in more in 2020.
They do whatever it is in their power to do. If not this time, then they’ll work towards it for next time.
And the voting public is fucking crazy. How do these people get elected in the first place?
I worry that American democracy has failed.
Splitting Image
Looking at the bright side, Trump’s ability to keep this charade going is making it easier for Biden to identify the people who need to be cleared out of the services when he is eventually inaugurated. Presumably he was never going to pick Lindsey Graham or Ted Cruz for cabinet posts anyway, but with so many moles burrowing in over the last few years, anybody who is following their lead or who treats them as honest actors needs to be weeded out.
Princess
I agree. It’s worth remembering though that McConnell could stop this in fifteen minutes. He hasn’t chosen to.
Cheryl Rofer
@Edmund Dantes: It’s fair to be concerned.
It seems foolish to build one’s life around all the negative things that might happen. Good things can happen too.
I’m all for making the Republicans pay. It’s not something we can do this week, though, so let’s deal with it when we can.
Mary G
I hope you’re right. I am in a state today and tweeting in all caps about #coup and #sedition. The fact that the press seems to see this exactly as they did in 2015/2016 – as a hilarious spectacle that’ll get them clicks, rather than a serious assault on everything this country is supposed to stand for, and the howling silence from anyone in the GOP who isn’t actively abetting this bullshit worry me greatly.
Plus so far today the WaPo shows 185,242 new cases of covid reported and 2,027 deaths while we laugh at Rudy’s dimestore hair polish just is getting to me.
cain
There must be consequences at the end – this can’t be stuff we shove under the carpet. If so, the rest of us are the biggest suckers in the world simply because we are basing our political will on 40% of the electorate. I remember it used to be only 27% now it’s grown.
Major Major Major Major
The good news is, as T. Greg Doucette has been laying out in excruciating detail for days on his twitter account (https://twitter.com/greg_doucette?s=21), there is a 0.0% chance that a Republican will be president on the afternoon of January 20. None of the electoral vote shenanigans will succeed because the House will not certify a tainted result. In the worst case, we get Acting President Pelosi.
With that knowledge, I’m able to stay sane and focus more on the damage being done to democracy, and the risks of a delayed transition. Which is a lot but at least a coup is off the table.
mrmoshpotato
@Gin & Tonic: Same. No Rethuglican Senators either.
mrmoshpotato
@cain:
Can we shove the Rethuglican party under the carpet then go all Wrestlemania on their traitorous asses?
Baud
Joy announces GA recount done. Biden wins, of course.
SiubhanDuinne
Breaking (per Joy/MSNBC) — not that it will be a surprise to anyone here: GA SoS has completed the hand recount of the vote and confirms that Joe Biden did indeed win the state. She didn’t provide numbers, but I’m sure they’ll follow soon.
ETA: Dammit Baud
Mike in NC
@SiubhanDuinne: Well done!
jl
@Edmund Dantes: I agree. The Trumpsters are trying to steal the election. The national GOP is implicit: standing by, ready to jump in if chances start to look good, but keeping just enough distance if it doesn’t. In other words, they are pretending to stand down but standing by.
Doesn’t make any difference if it will take half a dozen Hail Marys. They are trying, and damaging our democracy in the process.
The big fraudulent and dishonest fuss over Detroit involves 400 votes out a quarter million, and fewer discrepancies than in other, whiter, areas. They are lying about it to the courts and in public, at least by Lincoln’s definition of a lie.
There must be consequences, otherwise the next time they try it (and they will) with a more competent team, our democracy will be in more danger of being lost.
@EricKleefeld
Underneath this scary right-wing talking about how “71% of the precincts in Detroit cannot reconcile their votes,” the numerical discrepancies really amount to just ~400 actual votes out of 250,000 cast in the city. (Errors happened in the suburbs, too.)
https://twitter.com/EricKleefeld/status/1329438430862962689
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
Thanks, Cheryl
It’s important to also note that this effort would have to get past the Dem House. Does anybody think the R’s seriously think that appointing Trump electors instead of Biden’s would get past the House?
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: Also, apparently judge has not only tossed the GOP lawsuit against Maricopa County, he has ordered them to pay the SoS’s legal fees.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: The only thing that changes is the machine ballots from the Rome area that were never scanned. So instead of being 14,000 ahead it will just be under 13,000. At least that’s my understanding
From Dave Wasserman
Biden wins Georgia’s (16 EVs) by 12,284 votes.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Good news on the legal fees.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yay!
Does this include overseas military ballots?
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in NC:
Thanks. Thinking of calling it One Flew Over the Coup Coup’s Nest.
Baud
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
Don’t know. I assume so.
Shakti
@natem: We’ve had so many Bork moments it makes Bork irrelevant as a metaphor for an unfair partisan slugfest exercise of raw power.
A reminder to myself: Bork was the acting attorney general who fired Special Prosecutor Cox on Nixon’s orders during the Watergate investigation
Bork had a full confirmation hearing in the Senate.
Bork was the main attraction of a shitty, then unaccredited law school called Ave Maria which tried to recruit me in undergrad.
boatboy_srq
Not entirely sure about this one.
What I see is this: tRump is following “sue and sue and sue until either the other party runs out of money or recognizes that giving up is more cost-effective.”
Remember that tRump is most accustomed to following this playbook in civil court, where his opponents are contractors, clients, or people who have dirt on him and his businesses. Private sector – be it investor, union, contractor or service provider – has both limited funds and checkpoints on litigation that will trigger settlements when the costs of continuing become more expensive than settling out of court. Those checkpoints are frequently hit long before the defendant runs out of capital, because the defendant has to remain not merely solvent, but at least break-even if not profitable, to satisfy shareholders and other interested parties.
The public sector knows no such limitation: there are only the facts, and the means to pursue them no matter how long it takes. This is for tRump totally unfamiliar territory, and he has no idea that proceeding as he is will not result in the state backing down to save its nestegg. What makes it worse is that his advisors are either dismissed for disloyalty if they point this out to him, or complicit by egging him on with ever more increasingly pointless litigation.
This will end, not when the public sector tRump is assailing runs out of funds, but when the tRump machine does. Which, if anything we surmise is at all accurate, will likely come long before anyone expects.
SiubhanDuinne
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
I don’t know, but I would assume so (the usual provisos about ASS U ME apply).
Martin
Autogolpe is just a more precise, but more importantly a more polite way of saying coup. Once again, we need to protect the feelings of the autocrats.
Baud
@natem:
I hope so. Out side historically has had shorter memories.
schrodingers_cat
Freaking out at every horrible thing the Orange troll says or does amplifies his lies. I am not going to do it. We are not without agency. The walls are closing in on him and he is getting more desperate. I am going to follow Biden’s example and keep my cool.
BTW I just wrote to Mnem told her that all you guys were missing her.
Mike in NC
If the Trump family insists on following Mussolini’s exit strategy, who are we to object?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Thanks, SC.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Shaking my fist, once again. What is this strange mind-meld?
Redshift
My congressperson (Don Beyer) is posting on social media saying in no uncertain terms that Trump and the GOP are disgracefully trying to steal the election. I love him, rarely a need for calls other than an attaboy.
Mary G
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): Again, if the election goes to the House, each state gets one vote, not each representative. The are more Republican-controlled delegations in the House than there are Democratic ones. Trump wins in that situation.
NotMax
Auto-da-
fébray.Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
I strive to emulate the greats.
Benw
@SiubhanDuinne: way to go Georgia!!
schrodingers_cat
@natem: I am mad as hell. I have been mad as hell for 4 years. Anyone who voted for T in 2016 or Jill Stein will remain unforgiven for eternity. What is happening now was predictable when he “won” four years ago.
zhena gogolia
Baud
@Mary G:
Each state does not get one vote in selecting electors. It’s a normal vote.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: IANAL, but apparently that order was under a state statute pertaining to vexatious litigation.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
@SiubhanDuinne:
Thanks. I’d assume the SOS would know if military votes would change the result
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
The way I calm myself down is: they have been acting like this for four years. We knew they would just get worse in the interregnum. There was never any reason to expect anything different. We have to just wait. Wait. Wait for Jan. 20.
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: that’s not true. It only applies in the event of a tie. Both houses of Congress must agree to count each individual state’s vote so things will never get to that point.
Cheryl Rofer
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Gin & Tonic: Nor do I.
Benw
@Gin & Tonic: please proceed, Rudy
XD
Mary G
The sabotage being done under the radar is what all this circus is concealing. Mnuchin is declaring a lot of emergency programs passed by the CARES Act will stop on December 31. That ties Biden’s hands, as new legislation will be required and that will waste time. Even the Fed is opposing it.
boatboy_srq
@SiubhanDuinne: Brava!
geg6
I found it rather heartening to see that five GOP governors today. They have more balls than anyone else in the party with the exception of the SoS of Georgia. The rest are a bunch mewling eunuchs.
jl
I see that the Lincoln Project is still focused in going after Trump and the GOP. There have been squabbles among Democratic factions about what role the Lincoln Project can, should, or should not, play in Democratic politics going forward.
But several of the Lincoln Project leaders said they don’t want any, they want to burn the Trumpster GOP to the ground and rebuild the party. Going by their ads I’ve seen since the election, I think that that’s what they want.
If anyone knows about Lincoln Project feelers, or Dem outreach, for an active role in Dem politics or policy going forward, let me know.
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: OMG I hope so. Since he has decided that the republican representatives in Michigan can overturn the election, he has to go, and go quickly.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Mary G:
The House can refuse to initiate that procedure, which would only happen with a deadlock in the EC. I’m talking about the approval process for EC electors. Congress has to certify each state’s slate of electors. The House could simply refuse to vote to certify a state’s electors if they violate election law and appoint Trump electors. We would end up in a stalemate like 1876, and if it went on long enough, Pelosi would ascend to the Presidency automatically
PsiFighter37
They are all traitors. The leaders of the Michigan Senate is term-limited anyways; what did he have to lose by telling Trump to suck it? I will be quite nervous until the results in Michigan are certified. Once that happens, reality will really start settling in.
What I can’t wait for is Mike Fucking Pence having to read out the results in a special Senate session. I hope someone sets a bucket to catch those juicy tears.
Doug R
Biden has spent 45 years in either the Senate or going in and out of the White House. I think he already knows at least 90% of what goes on. Might be a procedure or two he doesn’t know, but Harris has been in the Senate for most of a term. Between the two of them, they got this covered.
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): also, if a state decides to pass a law changing how they appoint electors, since it’s after the election they would need congress’s approval.
there is a 0.0% chance a Republican is president the afternoon of January 20. Literally only possible if Pelosi allows it.
schrodingers_cat
Meanwhile the performance artists who call themselves the Squad are protesting the Biden administration. I just can’t with these idiots.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: ” that’s not true. It only applies in the event of a tie. Both houses of Congress must agree to count each individual state’s vote so things will never get to that point. ”
I think that is true. The House has to agree for the process to go forward to a House election by the state delegations. The House can gum up the works until it’s too late, with tactics ranging from telling the GOP to GTFO, to subtle delaying tactics, like tying up the process in investigative committees.
David ?Booooooo!? Koch
@Baud:
what did you say, I can’t remember?
Major Major Major Major
@jl: and quite famously each house can make their rules say whatever the fuck they want.
km
I agree with you but I’ve been taken aback sometimes by finding people I respect who are more alarmed.
bbleh
@ant: I agree. I go with a combination of Cheryl’s #2 #3 and #4. They ARE damaging things REALLY badly, although they’re probably not going to succeed THIS time, so eat drink etc.
(They would do #1 if things were closer, but they aren’t.)
Oh, and @SiubhanDuinne: GA SoS is a he — the sole Republican who is publicly acting honorably (and an engineer, ahem). The MI SoS is the bad-ass she in the biker jacket who is very articulately telling all the whiners to go pound sand.
Mary G
Where’s Adam?
Martin
The concern shouldn’t be over whether Biden will or won’t be president on 1/20. He will be.
The concern should be over whether the GOP, getting away with increasing levels of dishonesty and illegality, won’t simply up their game for the next election. They started courting the GA SOS back in January to throw the election for Trump. This wasn’t some last minute gambit, they’ve been at it for 10 months.
Martin
@Mary G: I’m assuming he found a nice hardened bunker to lock himself into after the Pentagon was decapitated.
Roger Moore
@Edmund Dantes:
Sure, but there are different levels of incompetent. There’s a difference between someone who shoots at you and fails because they’re a bad shot and someone who wants to blow up your building but fails because the person who sold him the explosives was an under cover police officer who sold him Plasticine instead of C4. Only one of them had a reasonable chance of success.
Trump is a lot closer to the latter than the former. He’s failing not just because he’s an idiot but because he’s surrounded himself with idiots. More important, the people he needs to make his plan work are showing no interest in helping him. It’s disappointing how few Republicans- especially non-Retired Republicans- are willing to stand up and say he’s engaged in an attempted coup. But at the same time, he’s only gotten a handful of all the officials who could help him to actually do so. Even the silent ones are at least tacitly resisting him. He needs their active support to have a prayer of succeeding, so their silence is helping Biden, if less so than if they would speak up.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne:
Should be a tagline.
SiubhanDuinne
@bbleh:
Thank you. I know that. I have lived in Georgia for 36 years. The “she” in my comment referred to Joy Reid. Next time, I’ll take a bit more care with my antecedents.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
There have been people arrested on such charges and we tend to laugh at them, and at the authorities who try to claim a major win on the war on terror.
Gin & Tonic
@Mary G: Probably busy. He e-mailed me today, so that’s proof of life.
geg6
@geg6:
Wow, bunch of my comment got erased. My fat fingers, I’m guessing.
Anyway, five GOP governors met with Biden today. That’s a good thing, even if some are considered RINOs. Didn’t think Kay Ivey or Asa Hutchinson were ever conserved that, though.
SiubhanDuinne
@boatboy_srq:
Ta!
SiubhanDuinne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
HAHAHAHA! ? ?
jl
@Major Major Major Major: ” and quite famously each house can make their rules say whatever the fuck they want. ”
IANAL, but from what I understand, the Constitution makes Congress the final arbiter. You have a majority in the House, you can decide disputes over electoral college votes. You have a majority in the House and 2/3 of the Senate, you can decide whether the president stays or goes, whether SCOTUS justices stay or go.
For reasons people can argue over, Congress has tried to run away from it’s power, responsibility and authority for decades. But they have it, and if worse comes to worse, the Dems in the House will have to face it.
Fair Economist
Totally agree that Trump’s chances are extremely slim. But my previously-reasonably-sane Republican brother is breathlessly announcing EVERY new stupid stunt suit puts the election result “in question”. And he’s a lawyer; he *should* know better. The cultists are going to be all in for nullifying black/educated/coastal votes on the flimsiest excuse now, and they are perilously close to a majority.
We have to change the usual American result where the President’s party backslides during his tenure or 2024 or 2028 will be a different story.
bbleh
@SiubhanDuinne: Oops, sorry :)
UncleEbeneezer
Cheryl, if you have the time/interest, a post about the actual research and efficacy of shunning would be awesome. I love the idea from an emotional perspective but am not sure if it actually works as a tool for changing people’s behavior.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Has anyone seen a comment from would-be Senator John “2000% with trump” James thinks about his hero trying to cut the voters of Detroit out of the election?
chopper
autogolpe? what’s an autogolpe?
it’s what you oughtn’t to do but you do anyway
LuciaMia
Everyones upset about these two being invited to the WH tomorrow. They cant ‘rescind’ their decision. Its done. And Michigan’s made it plain they wont go along with changing electors. So whats Trump’s point? Is he going to give them a cookie for first trying to block the certification?
Mai Naem mobile
I don’t know if this is possible and its a gamble but I think Biden should get 2 or 3 GOP senators into plum positions in his administration and that let’s McConnell know that Biden is going to play hardball. I don’t know the special election/senator replacement laws everywhere but obviously you want to pick blue governor states. If these appointees do their own thing once they get in, fire their asses. I don’t even care if Biden fires them the next day. The GOP doesn’t deserve to have him dealing with them in good faith. Perhaps just the threat of doing this would bring McConnell to heel but he is the problem.
Dan B
@Major Major Major Major: I’m hopeful that all this layering theater is preventing a lot of destruction by the Trumpers. Plus the Ghouliani / Crazy Woman presser gave the twitterverse yet another reason to serve up mounds of ridicule. Could it get bad enough that Trump would fire Ghouliani? Then he’d be left with Crazy Woman and radio announcer.
scav
@Martin: Autogolpe. There’s a certain amount of glee in using a Spanish term, at least for me. Plus, I keep getting it confused mentally with a Big Gulp, which is just soooo on-brand for Team Hamberders.
Ronno2018
Great post. Cheered me up.
Major Major Major Major
@jl:
This is correct. What I meant was that the constitution also makes it clear that the House can set a rule saying that all votes must take place after a thirty day clown rodeo is complete.
Peale
@LuciaMia: the people he’s summoned are in the state Legsilature, not on the Wayne county election certifying board. This is his play to get the leg to overturn the election in that state.
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: which I understand would require the consent of Congress, these people are such idiots
Ksmiami
@Edmund Dantes: agreed. I can’t be complacent because these orcs are attacking my home…
Peale
@Major Major Major Major: so the senate and house can’t agree on Michigan’s electors. Neither Trump nor Biden gets them. Or is this solely the discretion of the house?
Baud
Frank Wilhoit
@jl: How do you suppose they are going to burn Trump’s voters to the ground?
My answer is that they are not serious about that — or, therefore, about anything.
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: I believe there is a completely separate approval process for changing how you determine your electors (if you do it after the election)
If an objection is lodged against a state’s electors, both chambers have to rule on it. If there’s a deadlock then I guess nobody gets them.
White & Gold Purgatorian
@geg6: Kay actually used to be a Democrat, if I’m remembering correctly. 30 or 40 years ago, something like that, when everybody wanted to win here ran as a Democrat.
We’ve been lucky to have her through this. She extends that mask mandate one month at a time, always saying what the good old boys want to hear, but doing at least the minimum. It could have been a hell of a lot worse fo Alabama. Looking at you, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida …
raven
@Baud: The Loeffler ads on the radio are fucking stupid. She plays a recording song “Goddamn America” about 5 times in one minute.
Kristine
@SiubhanDuinne:
To me, it sounds like an Italian dessert, like affogato (which I swear means “I forgot to pick up dessert on the way home.”)
Baud
@raven:
You’re not the audience.
raven
@Baud: no shit, what was your first clue?
Roger Moore
@Baud:
They deserve to be laughed at. The authorities deserve to be commended for trying to take down terrorists, even if they deserve mockery for playing up the danger from those kinds of people.
An important, if unrelated point, is that I think people are judging the silent Republicans too harshly. I hear a lot of people saying they’re keeping quiet because they don’t want to piss off the Republican base, but I don’t think silence will do it. The rabid Trumpers will see them as having betrayed Trump with their silence in his hour of need. Anything but full throated support will be seen as betrayal.
lgerard
While we can laugh at this clown show knowing that it will never succeed, it is incredibly corrosive to our democracy. We will be plagued with an infection of ballot truthers for decades to come, all part of the never ending attempt to undermine our institutions.
The only upside I see is that it certainly cements the Kumquat Kim as the worst president in our long history
gwangung
What the upshot here is that we should be thinking more about retribution than worry about Trump worming his way back into power.
Dan B
@schrodingers_cat: Ii keep thinking the Trumper like to fight. Also the toxic masculinity of Fred and Roy Cohn is loud and clear with the Orange one. And we have the business magnates on our side. What is the conversation like between them and White House staffers?
I also am enjoying the shade Lt. Gov. Fetterman. Is every Trump scum going to have a Simpsons spirit animal or are going to have expanding cultural references to infinity?
schrodingers_cat
Mnem update : She is doing well. Working on her novel, author website and her job is keeping her busy with no inclination or time to argue about politics. She was wondering about the troll situation here. And said she may be back in the lurker mode before she starts commenting again. She was touched that people were concerned about her.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major:
It would also be unconstitutional, an ex post facto law.
David ?Booooooo!? Koch
Even the liberal Drudge Report (link)
raven
@Dan B: As long as they don’t have to really fight.
Aleta
It’s a serious disinformation campaign happening in the open that undermines the voting process and (acc. to a poll) has convinced more than a few Republicans that Biden cheated. Republican leaders at the federal and state level are actively, openly, supporting it. I’m not at all worried that Biden won’t be president. My mood is also good right now. I can believe that this is very serious at the same time. Disinformation can last a generation. I’m grateful to the people who are naming and explaining the abuses of the system even though nothing can be done yet. I think it’s important that regular people be as loud as they’re inclined, now and as attempts continue, not wait and expect that Biden will be able to fix things later. (Nothing against him, but there will be many priorities and possibly serious crises.) Just like in the months before the election, it continues to be up to us regular people to be vocal about what the GOP is doing and demand consequences for the outrages.
Ksmiami
@Mike in NC: that’s been my prediction since he was first elected…
Dan B
@Cheryl Rofer: Excellent news that Trump’s popularity is dropping. The base may be abandoning the whiney loser.
Funny that Trump primed them to loathe “losers”. Own goal!
Matt McIrvin
@Mary G: That’s in the contingent election, which happens if nobody has a majority of electors. He’s talking about the counting of the electoral votes.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
Oh, tell her we miss her terribly.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: You want stupid, got a news alert that a 22 yo guy was arrested in Hollywood for crashing his drone into a LAPD chopper.
Dan B
@schrodingers_cat: Would it help if AOC had it explained that McConnell’s office is 8n a different location? As in McConnell is where their dreams will be dashed. Did they not understand?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: I will. TBH I must admit the incessant doom posting on BJ makes it difficult to be here for me as well.
Mary G
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks for that. I’ve been wondering if it would be OK to email her.
raven
@schrodingers_cat: There’s some funny shit in between.
gwangung
@schrodingers_cat: I’d rather think about payback.
Much more satisfying.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodingers_cat: Thank you for the update. Add me to the list of those who miss her and wish her well.
Dan B
@Martin: I’m wondering if Adam is talking to some Biden transition folks or if he’s huddling with some of his good Generals and guiding strategy.
frosty
I wrote out my script for Toomey and Smucker based on what all you valued commenters have been saying. Tried to keep it short but hit the high points. Anything to add?
It is past time for you and the other Senate Republicans to stand up for your country and tell Trump to concede. We have had a free and fair election and he lost.
His behavior, and that of you and your colleagues, is corrosive to our democracy. You took an oath to uphold the Constitution. This is the time to live up to your oath.
raven
@Dan B: He’s probably walking the dog.
raven
@frosty: Back huh?
Kent
The election only goes to the House if the House decides to take it up. The Dem majority can simply refuse to consider it and on January 20 we wind up with President Pelosi.
raven
“”I got my twelve hundred dollars from the coronavirus Illinois unemployment cause I was on furlough from YMCA. And I got my first unemployment check so I was like, ‘Oh, I’ll use this to buy it,'” Rittenhouse said in a phone interview with the Washington Post that was published Thursday.”
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: That really should be!
O. Felix Culpa
@frosty: Very nice. The only addition I can think of would be an action step, namely to get GSA Emily to certify the transition process.
Charluckles
All of these ridiculous shenanigans in the face of Biden and Harris being patient and presidential are going to give a tremendous amount of strength to attempts at strengthening our democracy. Including a John Lewis Voting Rights Act.
Mai Naem mobile
@raven: is this the Barack Obama pastor guy saying goddamn America? That’s an old one if that’s what they’re using. I read up her bio and I know Loeffler is not stupid but jeezus she looks like such a scheming bimbo.
raven
@Mai Naem mobile: yup, Jeremiah Wright.
WaterGirl
@LuciaMia: I thought the ones going to the white house are actual Republican leaders from the MI state legislature. Not the two racist yahoos that have been publicly shamed since they refused to certify the votes at first.
edit: Or, what Peale said.
zhena gogolia
Kamala Harris’s tweets are very soothing.
Mai Naem mobile
@raven: so are they blaming the Democrat Party yet since Democrat congressional members pushed for the stimulus?
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Oh, you’re kidding. They’ve dug him up again?
How about the SDS guy? What does Jeremiah Wright have to do with the GA senate runoff?
Dan B
@raven: What? Isn’t shouting and whining fighting? Whaddya want, some violence – pistols at 30 paces, charge of the light brigade?
/s
And I’m not hoping for a sinecure at The Onion.
frosty
@Martin: They’re really two different things. Pinochet killing Allende in Chile was a coup. Evo Morales in Bolivia, giving himself extra terms of office, was an autogolpe. It seems like a good distinction to me.
Gvg
@Martin: I am assuming he is finally getting job offers to go with his experience with the change in administrations. If so, I think he won’t be able to be a commenter here anymore.
The sequester and funding fights between the parties, cost him a few jobs.
raven
@zhena gogolia: Bill Ayers
frosty
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks, I’ll try to follow your example as well.
Thanks for that!
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Is he in her ads too?
Joy in FL
Thank you, Cheryl. I’m mostly reading and listening to reasonable people, but sometimes worry creeps in, so your post is really helpful.
Dan B
@Aleta: Pushing back on GOP shenanigans is good even if we only reach a small percentage of the electorate and some yoots!
Gvg
@Roger Moore: Also antagonizing the military is not a good tactic for a would be dictator. In fact it is exceptionally stupid even for Trump.
rikyrah
@Edmund Dantes:
ICAM??
Mai Naem mobile
@raven: during the Jeremiah Wright thing my work situation was that I spent half an hour to an hour every day at a place where they had FOX News blaring. You really got a taste of what FOX News does watching that period of time. They easily played that ‘goddamn America’ clip 4 times every 30 minutes. It was like watching the space shuttle blowing up clip in the 80s.
Baud
Rachel’s partner had serious covid but is recovering. Rachel is fine.
WaterGirl
@Kent: That’s only if it’s 269 to 269. Which it’s not.
Dan B
@raven: So true.
Doggoes?
raven
@zhena gogolia: no
Eljai
@Baud: It’s making me a little emotional though.
FelonyGovt
We need to remember that in spite of the HUGE structural disadvantage of the Electoral College, we have ejected the Orange tyrant and Joe Biden will be President (and Kamala Harris VP!) on January 20.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Not enough melatonin, I guess.
raven
@Dan B: Yea
zhena gogolia
@Dan B:
He has two.
EthylEster
re: the experts I follow on Twitter
experts on Twitter: oxymoron much?
zhena gogolia
@FelonyGovt:
YESSSSS!!!!
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
That was a powerful segment. Glad to see her back (even without makeup!)
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia:
I’m going to venture a guess as to their thinking:
All black pastors are the same, right? So Warnock has surely said “God damn America!” and you should be afraid of him. Be very afraid.
raven
@zhena gogolia:
Aleta
WaterGirl
@Baud: whew! Scary about her partner. But Rachel is still testing negative for COVID? Or has a “mild” case?
Baud
@WaterGirl:
She said she’s been testing negative.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Oh, for Christ’s sake. Warnock is absolutely right.
raven
@zhena gogolia: I’m not the audience /s
Geoduck
@Peale: Specifically, Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and House Speaker Lee Chatfield.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: It doesn’t seem like it’s been enough time.
I have two friends whose (respective) husbands both have COVID.
They are in each in their respective houses, trying to maintain distance. My friend T has to start her count of 14 days at day 10 of the diagnosis of her husband.
So husband gets diagnosed on the 1st of the month, count 10 days ahead, and THEN her 14 days starts. Because you could get COVID from them even on the last day they are contagious.
So it doesn’t seem like enough time for Rachel to be back.
dmsilev
I guess my general view is that Joe Biden and the team he assembled seem to have inherited the “no drama”, “everybody chill the fuck out, I’ve got this” mantle from Obama. They don’t seem at all concerned that there’s any hint of a doubt that Biden will become President in January. Disgusted at Trump’s actions, yes, but not concerned about what the final outcome will be. If we start to get “sources close to the Biden team are worried that…” stories, I’ll become more seriously worried, but until then I think they’ve shown they have a handle on things.
raven
@WaterGirl: She’s on from her home.
jeffreyw
WaterGirl
@raven: That makes sense. Thank you.
lowtechcyclist
This strikes me as an approach from a bygone era that I really don’t expect will work now. If Democrats want to move public opinion, they’ve got to get in the arena themselves.
While I think Biden should stay above the fray, Pelosi, Schumer, and their compatriots shouldn’t. They should be out there daily, making the point that nearly the entire GOP Congressional caucus refuses to recognize the outcome of what is now a long-settled election, and that by their silence, they have become accomplices to an attempt, however clumsy and unlikely to succeed, to subvert the election and with it, our democracy.
Mary G
I still think he’s a weasel, but one Republican still in office has finally had enough and pushed back.
SiubhanDuinne
@bbleh:
Nope, my error. I wasn’t clear in my comment, and was much too snotty in my reply to you. I’m sorry.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist:
You may be right. But that approach gives Biden the best chance of not having a civil war on his hands and his best chance of calming the waters, and being able to govern the 70million crazies.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: I feel confident that there is a lot of strategizing going on, and that anything that’s being said by a Dem is part of the messaging strategy.
Redshift
@zhena gogolia:
I didn’t pay too close attention, but I think the supposed connection is that Warnock either said something in support of Wright at the time or maybe just wouldn’t condemn him. Of course, we all know the real “connection” is that Warnock is a Black preacher (and really, just that he’s Black.)
Funny how Wright’s condemnation of America is still anathema, but Trump’s “American Carnage” and “this country’s done some terrible things” are a-ok. What could the difference be?…
Benw
@FelonyGovt: yup we kicked their ass. If Biden and Co can even nudge the playing field toward flat, we can keep kicking their ass
SiubhanDuinne
@Kristine:
LOL
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mary G: step by step…. Kinda surprised Willard’s White Horse ego and his own daddy issues haven’t called him to step up a bit more vigorously
I think he was wildly overrated for 99% of his career, but John McCain’s vindictive streak would’ve had him on this like a wolverine on a wounded caribou’s neck
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: My snottiness detector must be on the fritz. But then I was sure that your “she” was referring to whatever female newscaster had shared the news, so maybe that impacted my judgment.
Splitting Image
@Redshift:
Orange privilege is a helluva drug.
Redshift
@raven: Loeffler perfectly illustrating the quote:
jl
@Frank Wilhoit:
” How do you suppose they are going to burn Trump’s voters to the ground?
My answer is that they are not serious about that — or, therefore, about anything. ”
I do not know how they are going to do that. That is their problem, as is whether they are serious about anything or not.
As long as they are doing ads that slam the Trumpsters and their GOP allies, I don’t see a problem. If we get Trumpsters and and Lincoln Project ad people both attacking the GOP, seems OK to me.
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
She’s broadcasting from home, still isolating, and it sounds as though she will for the foreseeable future. If you can watch her first 10 or so minutes, do.
frosty
@raven: Yeah, you guys can’t keep me away. I got some productive stuff done yesterday (sorting pictures and slides to send to Scancafe) so now I can waste away the evening.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
My comment above (#192) was meant for you, not me!
FlyingToaster
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): Secretaries of State (or for a few of us, Secretaries of Commonwealth) certify the ballots, which auto-selects the electors previously chosen.
In Massachusetts, we selected our electors back on SuperTuesday; if you voted in the D primary, you also voted for your D elector, and D Town Committeemen & Committeewomen. Ditto for the GOP, Libertarians and Greens (I think those were the only ballots I saw for the primary).
So when MA certified it’s results Wednesday, it selected the 11 D electors (1 per CD and two selected at the State Convention).
Certification is after the cutoff for military ballots. Georgia finished its recount and certifies tomorrow (as does North Dakota).
There’s a certification page at Ballotpedia.
raven
@frosty: I’m going to bed!
dmsilev
Lead story at the Post just now:
Trump uses power of presidency to try to overturn the election and stay in office
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: You are so great.
raven
@dmsilev:
(
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
That was my intent, but it really wasn’t clear. And when I went back and reread my first reply to @bbleh, it came across as arrogant. Snippy. I wouldn’t have wanted to be on the receiving end of my comment.
Benw
@raven: FUCK HIS FEELINGS
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: I knew that, too. :-)
WaterGirl
@dmsilev:
In what CRITICS decried? Not all reasonable people who care about democracy? I would like to smack the person who wrote that. They are part of the problem.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
Good heavens. Undeserved, but thank you!
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
:-)
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@raven:
Fuck that piece of shit! He’s fucking with the country because his feelings are hurt
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Jesus. Do you think we could get him to hold his breath until he turns blue?
dmsilev
One reason Trump, and his children, might be feeling a tad desperate right now:
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@FlyingToaster:
I didn’t know that. Thanks! Then the House wouldn’t even need to reject an alternate set of electors if R state legislatures went crazy
dmsilev
@SiubhanDuinne: What color do you get if you mix orange and blue?
Patricia Kayden
MomSense
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m trying to enjoy how pathetic he and Rudy are, but once we finally get them out of power we need to throw the motherfucking book at them.
Thanks for sending greetings to Mnem.
cain
What is this bullshit about Trump campaign suing electors? Saw it on Imani’s twitter feed.
I think it’s time to start counter-suing these assholes. We need to stop just defending – the Biden campaign has the power to also do lawsuits. Let’s see if we can distract the Trump campaign with some lawsuits as well – drag their ass to court.
We need to respond as well. If he wants to do a court battle then we should do that too. Start suing.
debbie
@Mai Naem mobile:
Throw Trump’s remark about military veterans being suckers and losers back at them.
Citizen Alan
@Mai Naem mobile: That Jeremiah Wright bullshit pissed me off so much. Go into any evangelical church on Sunday and there’s a 50-50 chance you’ll see some white asshole in a cheap suit pounding the table and screaming that America is damned because abortion is legal and we don’t stone our gays, but nobody gives a shit about that.
Aleta
@Aleta: Audre Lorde
dmsilev
@WaterGirl: Yeah, I know, “journalistic view from nowhere” and all that. Still, the article goes into depth about just how baseless everything Trump is doing is. Also, there’s this bit which was new to me (in regards to certifying the Michigan vote):
Omnes Omnibus
I see it this way. I have an entirely rational fear of clowns. That does not mean I am scared of everyone who wears make-up.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s time to unleash Barack Obama:
VeniceRiley
Gates on Cooper and Fauci on Cuomo for the better part of the shows is LIFE.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: Was your doctor’s visit for your son today? How is he???
WaterGirl
@cain: “Both sides.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
nope, not even a sarcastic thoughts and prayers to this goon
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: Agreed.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: You should be. You should be.
FlyingToaster
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): The laws on electors vary a lot from state to state. But AFAIK, the actual slates of electors were chosen a while ago (August/September), and certifcation tells which set of electors get the train/plane tickets.
State Legislatures can change how the electors are chosen for the NEXT election, but ex post facto bars them from changing for this one. I don’t know of a single state where the lege has to certify the results; it’s always either the SoS/C or an Electoral Commissioner (an employee in the SoS/C’s office).
Trump, not remembering a damn thing about the Constitution test every kid takes in 10th grade, doesn’t know any of this. He assumes that it’s all like civil court, and he can just keep suing and suing and suing. Though now he has to pay Maricopa County’s legal fees… Tee Hee.
Lyrebird
Thank you Cheryl.
More smidgens of hope:
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: I knew the first part of that but not the second. Thanks!
Yeah, overall the article was good, but weasel word crap frustrates me. This is not a reasonable people disagree situation.
Aleta
@MomSense: RGiu shouldn’t be on television any more. Like the saying goes, it’s a privilege not a right, and he’s lied so much there should be no obligation to give him any more time.
WaterGirl
@VeniceRiley: LIFE?
Splitting Image
@raven:
Once again, it’s always about him and his hurt little fee-fees.
Kent
Golpe is just the Spanish word for coup. I lived through several coup attempts during my time in Guatemala. A coup doesn’t require the assassination of the former leader. It’s simply seizing power through illegal means. Usually military means but not necessarily.
What Evo Morales did wasn’t even a coup of any kind. As I understand the narrative. He was term-limited to 3 terms. Tried to get a constitutional amendment passed to repeal term limits and the effort narrowly lost. He then appealed to the Bolivian Supreme Court (packed with his loyalists) that term limits were a violation of human rights and through a series of controversial court cases, got the term limits set aside so he could run for a 4th term. The 2019 elections which he won were reportedly marred by fraud. The OAS investigated the election and found evidence of widespread fraud. Subsequent investigations by independent researchers questioned this finding and found no evidence of fraud. But by that time Morales was essentially run out of office and an interim right-wing government was appointed, which Morales claimed was itself a coup. This year Morale’s party won back the presidency and Congress.
Redshift
@Patricia Kayden:
Except maybe by the Russian intelligence after he brought them into the Oval Office unsupervised…
debbie
@Aleta:
I’m wondering if the cases Rudy tried as a prosecutor should be reviewed, what with his propensity for dishonesty.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Separately, a proud alumna of my high school (“We’re loyal to you, Oak Park High! We’re orange and blue, Oak Park High!”)
Mixed, an unattractive, if not downright repellant, mud-brown-greyish tone.
LongHairedWeirdo
While I agree the process is working, it still feels like this is a pivotal moment.
When W lied us into war – and yes, there were explicit lies told – and when he ordered torture, and violated the Geneva conventions, and spied without FISA approval (that one burned – I remember Republicans SCREAMING how unfair it was that Clinton could spy on Americans with just a rubber stamp from the FISA court, but when W violated FISA, eh, no biggie, good luck finding someone with standing to sue to make him stop!), I could see that, while W was no Hitler, the Republicans were backing him *exactly* as they’d have backed a Hitler.
It was the refusal to do so much as admit “there is cause for criticism.” Criticizing W was tantamount to attacking America and the American military, “do you want the TERRORISTS to win?”
With Trump, what, exactly, is left?
Will they criticize him for corruption, and taking bribes? Of course not.
Will they criticize him for bigotry and cruelty? They might be “very concerned” for the duration of a press conference.
Do they care that his campaign and transition team had *REALLY* horrifying contacts with Russians? Of course not.
Obstruction of justice? Kewl. Trying to start baseless criminal investigations? Oh, yeah, who doesn’t do *that*? Abuse of office? Aw, c’mon, now! Failure to see the laws faithfully executed? “Off the record – you *really* believe that happy horsecrap ‘we revere the Constitution’? Wow!”
Dereliction of duty, and disinformation spreading, during a pandemic, leading to 10s of thousands of preventable deaths? “VOTE TRUMP OR BIDEN WILL DESTROY THIS GREAT NATION!”
Attempted coup? “What attempted coup? We don’t see an attempted coup, unless and until the polls say that voters are angry about this soi disant ‘attempted coup’; for now, all we see is Trump trying to throw a free and fair election to the courts, and what could be wrong with *THAT*?”
What line is left to cross, short of invading Poland and commencing mass extermination of sufficiently unpopular people?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
someone sounds a might on-edge
Steve in the ATL
@frosty:
Apropos of your comment, I’ve been drinking a Don Melchor cab from Puento Alto, Chile this evening
Gin & Tonic
@Aleta: Looking at him today, I almost feel kind of sorry. The fact that he doesn’t have anyone in his life who cares for him enough to take away his keys is a little sad.
Just a little. I’m over it now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: So we should fear many women and all drag queens? That seems a bit off to me. Or do you mean I should fear those people because I know what I have done? That is quite reasonable and I would thank you for the heads up.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks for the report. She is missed by this commenter as well.
Cheers,
Scott.
TS (the original)
@cmorencok:
It could also be (and much more likely) that she is a partisan hack appointed by, and to act for, Donald Trump.
This is not her first rodeo. She also knows nothing about anyone from outside of the US staying in trump’s DC hotel (despite it is her job to know these things)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: it’s almost as if Grandpa Fred knew what he was doing while he ran these (I think fairly common in family businesses large and small) money-laundering tax scams while keeping his head down and living well beneath his means and letting everyone think he was a jumped-up slumlord when in fact he was a bit-by-a-radioactive-spider-level jumped-up slumlord
@Steve in the ATL: what’s your rating?
artem1s
days after the election Kasich was demanding the Dems pay fealty to ‘voices on the other side’. His feed was full of ‘Biden should put you on his cabinet’. Kasich could be angling for a post but is more likely going to lead the ‘Dems are bad at the economy’ charge and then challenge Biden in 2024. He’s as narcissistic as Trump, easily.
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
I know that’s right??
NotMax
@Goku (Amerikan Baka)
Minor quibble in that it doesn’t necessarily fall to the Secretary of State, as some states have a Chief Elections Officer or a Board of Elections to fulfill the ballot voting certification procedure.
AFAIK, thereafter everything thereafter ascends to the governor, who is the one who certifies and transmits the actual electoral vote result following the voting by the designated electors having occurred and transmits it to Congress (the obvious exception being D.C. which has no governor).
Baud
@artem1s: He also couldn’t deliver Ohio.
Steeplejack
For those who are interested, Jonathan Capehart’s interview with Barack Obama is starting now on MSNBC.
a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio
@LuciaMia:
It’s so they can have a crack at contracting the extra-special White House strain of La Rona. That’s the Big Circus Peanut’s favorite gift for his most faithful supporters!
cain
@WaterGirl:
This is the kind of “both sides” I can get behind. But only one side will be left standing the other bankrupt.
cain
@FlyingToaster:
He’s not going to pay – he’s got a whole system for that! He hasn’t paid any state for any of his rallies has he? :-)
cain
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
She’s one to talk since her dad is literally going on a politically motivated witch hunt – and never mind that Trump was going after Hunter Biden. So yeah, fuck her, fuck him and roll over her.
Brachiator
Thing is, governments don’t typically run out of money.
Trump has usually lost or had to settle most of his court battles (you’d think he’d learn, but no). This time, he thought it might be different if he were the actual head of government.
Trouble is, he lost the election. There has never been any question about this. But Trump hoped that somewhere along the way, he would bring his case before a panel that included loyal suckers. This has not worked out according to plan.
It is sad that there are so many metaphorical situations that apply to what Trump has done to this country. I often see him as a third rate hood who got away with his crap for awhile because he could brutalize decent people, and got protection from the second rate hoods of the GOP leadership.
The good thing is that he turned out to be a lousy autocrat. Sadly, I believe that there are people taking notes, and will try it again if they rise to power.
We see that a good chunk of citizens don’t mind tossing democracy away, or believe that democracy means the right kind of hypocritical white people in charge.
And we have seen that practically the entire Republican Party is willing to fall in line behind the most despicable person imaginable if it will help them gain political power.
NotMax
@NotMax
Shall append it wasn’t all that long ago that Hawaii created a post of Chief Elections Officer, when it finally dawned on enough people that the previous system of having the Lt. Governor handle election certification was an awkward set-up.
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: mid 90’s, for what that’s worth! It’s quite good. And I generally like South American wines, certainly more so than South American politics.
Redshift
@Lyrebird: Frum has been a pleasant surprise in the Trump interregnum. I still disagree with most of what he believes (he wrote for my college newspaper, and he was a smug bastard even then), but he seems to be the rare conservative intellectual who actually cares about maintaining intellectual honesty.
rikyrah
@Patricia Kayden:
????
frosty
@Kent: I didn’t like the word “kill” in that context but it’s all I could come up with. Nevertheless, I think we agree. Here’s what I meant:
Coup: overthrow from outside the legal government.
Autogolpe: Illegal seizure of power from within the legal government.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: For a second, I thought you were talking about Trump, where the same thing also applies.
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: A couple of people told me when I was traveling though Mendoza, that the really good stuff never leaves the country.
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Nah, fuck him. I hope he dies alone and scared.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Steve in the ATL: gonna pick up some wine for the Thanksgiving hole-up, following my usual sophisticated process of matching price-point to a cool-looking label. I don’t usually wander down the S American aisle, but these are unprecedented times…
NotMax
@Steve in the ATL
There are quite a few good Chilean wines and more than a handful of really good ones. Used to be nearly all were eminently affordable; prices have risen dramatically in recent years.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“real estate” is trending on twitter, for apparently reality-show related reasons that I do not choose to explore, but it makes me think that according to recent stories in the NYT, trump’s three most valuable assets are one-third shares in three different office buildings, two in Manhattan and one in San Francisco. I wonder how much that’s contributing to his panic, what with all the debt coming due and all….
Also of note: He owns those buildings as a partner in a company called Vornado (IIRC) that he unsuccessfully sued to try to get out of, so if I understand correctly, a good chunk of what actual assets trump does have, he owns inspire of himself
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
YMMV, of course, but have yet to be disappointed in any bottle from Chile with the brand name Montes on the label.
Aside for the Costco people: some of the Kirkland brand wines are very nice. A number of web sites out there devoted to reviewing and rating just the Kirkland label output.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: thanks for the tip
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus: I would suggest you fear all women initially. Safest choice. Watch some drag queens carefully. And of course clowns are scary AF, and should be avoided altogether.
J R in WV
@Mary G:
I don’t know… he may be busy with paying work?
Aleta
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “political motivation” is the happening song for Ivanka and Jared
MomSense
@Steve in the ATL:
I love Culpeo- affordable and very good.
patroclus
Before I went to work, I actually watched much of the Guiliani presser today on Fox/OAN and it was utterly ridiculous. First, Hugo Chavez has been dead for 7 years. Second, Dominion is owned by Americans and wasn’t even used in Milwaukee, Detroit or Madison. The supposed “food truck” that arrived with thousands of ballots actually arrived with food. The supposed “hundreds” of affidavits actually boils down to about 10 because all the other “affiants” refuse to go public and let their names be used (which isn’t allowed in courts). The worst allegation is that someone was instructed not to check the signature on a photo ID (in a state where the best evidence of the signature is the one contained in the voter registration). And the second best was an alleged instruction to backdate the receipt date of mail-in ballots but not an actual allegation that they were so backdated. That’s about it. It’s all ludicrous. the funniest thing was that Rudy’s hair dye was melting constantly; causing two giant streaks on his face the whole time.
I am not worried whatsoever that Trump will ever succeed. The House would have to approve any tainted electors and that’ll only end in an impasse (like 1876), not the special House rules (like 1800 or 1824). Which means it’s either President Biden or President Pelosi. Also, any House (or Senate) members whose election hasn’t been certified can’t take office either, meaning they won’t be able to vote.
I’m not all that concerned about the GSA and the transition funds and office space either. That law was enacted in 2007 and has only applied to 3 transitions. Somehow, we got through 43 other transitions without it. If Biden needs money, he could get a line of credit. Sure, it’d be better if his team could talk officially to the CDC, HHS, Fed, Treasury and all the defense agencies, but he and his team already have a lot of experience with these agencies.
The Guiliani/Trump/Powell clown show is actually pretty humorous to me. But I’m glad everyone else has their hair on fire because it should help in the Georgia run-offs. “Normally,” there’s an enormous drop-off in interest by the electorate and run-offs typically get low vote percentages. I don’t think that will be the case this time.
frosty
@Steve in the ATL: Chilean wines are quite good. Even the ones I buy on the bottom shelf.
Brachiator
@Redshift:
I largely agree, but the problem remains that to many journalists, historians, pundits and political leaders have been reluctant to call Trump what he is, a vile, racist, petty would-be autocrat.
And I believe that a good number of publishers, editors and reporters concluded, “well, we’ve seen a number of autocratic leaders before. We think that we can do business with this one.”
I believed that Trump would fail miserably in handling some crisis, but I never imagined anything like his craven incompetence with respect to the pandemic, or his subsequent psychological inability to handle electoral defeat.
I also never imagined that a large number of fools would stick with him until the very end.
Still, I believe that even though we might have to sit and watch Trump’s political death rattle, he is done.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I think I shall reject your advice, except for the part about clowns which is only common sense. The rest seems as though it would lead to a boring life.
NotMax
@Mary G
The first rule of Adam Club is don’t talk about Adam Club.
:)
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Costco FTW!
@SiubhanDuinne: SiubhanDuinne, Foolish Literalist!
@Gin & Tonic: rat bastards—give us the good stuff!
Steve in the ATL
@frosty: I like them better than just about anything from the Willamette Valley
@MomSense: I will try it. If it’s bad, you pied!
Brachiator
@patroclus:
Imagine that!
I listened to about 5 minutes of this farce on the radio, then switched it off and took a nap.
The GOP leadership should issue a strong statement repudiating Trump. But I think that since Watergate, the party took a pledge to protect their leader, no matter what. They think that this will help them some day.
Democrats should take note and keep this in mind when the Republicans inevitably come climbing out of their rat holes crying for bipartisanship.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I wasn’t really thinking about the feeling sorry for him part. Just the “if anyone loved him, they would have stopped all this shit long ago” part.
Now I can’t remember who has said all along that they will carry Trump out of the white house. I think it was Martin.
Kent
OK, that distinction makes sense. By that definition, what Hitler did with the burning of the Reichstag was an auto-golpe.
cmorenc
@TS (the original):
These two (or three?) things are not mutually exclusive.
Jeffro
Totally random thought: Joe Biden should put on a mask tomorrow that says “trumpov 2020”, look the camera straight in the lens, and go, “See? It’s not that hard. Pick one out and JUST WEAR IT, you dumb motherfuckers!”
NotMax
@Brachiator
You mean the Steelers didn’t smuggle in 100,000 votes along with that catered meal they provided election workers?
//
debbie
@Brachiator:
Nope. They need to have Trump chained around their collective neck like an albatross.
Lyrebird
@Redshift: Agreed!
Yeah, I think he has cared about that for longer than some of my fellow students like Jonathan Karl. Either way, yes these are such strange times. I am grateful to every single conservative TV person who has stood up for some truth, even as I look forward to getting to disagree with them again.
Another Scott
(Includes image of November 19 letter to her.)
(via RepDonBeyer)
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@debbie:
They are already doing that. It’s not working out.
The government has to move forward. Trump cannot stop it.
I wonder if there is a way to decertify the entire Republican Party?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Credit where due, Mitt Romney must’ve seen me call him out in the comments section of this almost top 10,000 blog
Brachiator
@Kent:
Wow. Here’s a word that has rarely been used here in the US.
At first I thought it was a drink holder in a German automobile.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
‘ It would also be unconstitutional, an ex post facto law. ‘
There are exceptions to that constitutional provision. I think it’s absolute only for criminal law for US residents.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus: Certainly not boring if you choose the wrong women to move out of the “initially” category… There’s of course no reason to worry about drag queens, but I was trying to follow the construction, if you will.
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
That would be an appropriately tacky ending to Trump’s miserable presidency.
And my movie of “Fall of Trump” ends with Melania standing outside on the street with a small suitcase, Barron by her side, accepting a ride from a stranger and heading off into the sunset.
jl
Two officials in the MI executive are putting word out that those two MI legislators going to some BS meeting with Trump tomorrow better watch themselves, lest they get investigated and prosecuted for crimes. Below is from press secty for MI Attorney General. Another MI official who I think could initiate an investigation said he was watching them closely too, but forget who he is.
@rossmanmckinney
” Opinion | Why Michigan’s Top Legislators Should Cancel that Meeting with Trump ”
https://twitter.com/rossmanmckinney/status/1329611897906184194
PS: She didn’t write it, she’s just pointing it out to anyone who may be interested in a constitutional lawyers opinion.
The Moar You Know
@frosty: that’s excellent.
Jeffro
@Another Scott: Go Gerry!!
Aleta
@Brachiator: A hideous movie will be made from the book Melania’s publisher will be selling with her name on front. The Christmas scenes will be special.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Upton’s still a big deal in MI, I think. And, fun fact, Kate Upton’s uncle.
Cheryl Rofer
Here’s one. I know we’re jaded about the expected Republicans doing the expected things, but this is a strong statement.
jl
@Brachiator: They could lure Trump down into the bunker and seal it off, deliver meals, etc. Or get him up into the attic.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: There are exceptions, but I don’t think this is one of them.
rikyrah
rikyrah
@Cheryl Rofer:
This is the best we will get from Willard
sdhays
@raven: It’s almost funny that the spin they’re going with now is that the President-Reject isn’t stupid or off his rocker in denial, or even believes there should be a coup to keep him power. He’s just very petty.
I believe it. (Although that doesn’t mean it’s not “and” rather than “or”.)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
You’re going soft on us jl, what would Baud say?
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I guess if it gets to SCOTUS, we’ll find out if they can find one for this mess.
Maybe the two MI legislators are going to the WH to tell Trump MI is out of play, he has to subvert democracy in another state. The national GOP is too chicken to do it. Tomorrow will be interesting.
Their statements that the MI legislature is not going to overturn the election were so categorical and firm, if they change their minds, they’ll have some explaining to do.
Original Lee
@UncleEbeneezer: I don’t think it changes the shun-ee’s behavior very often. Shunning is frequently a form of emotional bullying by a fairly small group. I was shunned in high school over a fairly tactless statement I made. I had nothing I could change, except to apologize (apology not accepted) and to try to be more tactful, which wouldn’t have been noticed even if I had been successful, because nobody was talking to me.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: There’s one more thing, if the MI leg wanted to change the law, they’d have to get the Governor’s signature.
GoBlueInOak
@patroclus: Personally I think what the country deserves is Trump holding on until the bitter end, with him holed up in a sofa cushion fort in the Oval office.
Biden gets sworn in, and immediately one of the guys behind him with an ear piece and mirrored Ray-Bans whispers into his cufflink. And 5 minutes later we all get to watch the Secret Service toss Trump feet first onto Pennsylvania Avenue along with a ratty cardboard box filled with the personal belongings from his desk.
Cheryl Rofer
@rikyrah: It may give other Republicans cover to back away from Trump. But that’s been said before, and it hasn’t happened.
You would think that now that he is a loser, his hold would weaken. We’ll see what happens in the morning.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: They will be very HEALTHY meals. Stuff like tuna salad with lettuce and no mayo. That might run too close to comfort to human rights crimes against Trump, but it’s the right thing to do for his welfare.
It’s not going to be easy, it is a dilemma. Tough decisions, hard choices, difficult conversations, will get worse before it gets better, etc., etc.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: They must be trying to get dueling electoral slates appointed. Some federal laws have been passed to stop that kind of coup plotting after the 1876 crisis, but that is above my IANAL paygrade.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: If they did that, they’d be in violation of state law, and the House would throw out that slate of electors.
ETA: We should just pass some Capital Gains Tax Cuts, that’ll solve the problem. Cures the ‘Rona too!
patrick II
@sdhays:
That’s part of how he rationalizes what he is doing, I think to himself as well as his fans. But it is not the goal. He has often said that he deserves another term (after this one) to make up for the years the investigations handicapped his administration. He wants to be president forever, and in his dreams, he thought he could be.
Craig
@Cheryl Rofer: thanks for being sensible. Mad respect to you. Thanks for posting here, I really appreciate your perspective.
mrmoshpotato
Soledad’s having none of Kremlin Barbie’s whiny bullshit.
Cheryl Rofer
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer: a polite golf clap for Sasse, and hoping that he and Our Willard are the shape of things to come, but this response made me laugh
I wonder if Young Ben senses, as I do, that Josh Hawley knocks him out of the running for the “intellectual” young conservative from the “heartland’ lane in 2024
Jinchi
It would, but Trump is all about saving face and he isn’t going to put himself in a position where Joe Biden can have him dragged out of the White House. But he also can’t concede. My guess is that he’ll head to Mar-a-lago for a quick weekend getaway on January 16th, conspicuously schedule meetings at the White House and set the White House staff to some idiotic and back breaking task just to prove he’s still president.
And then never return to DC.
Which is fine by me. I really don’t want him anywhere near the inauguration.
mrmoshpotato
@Jinchi:
Dump or no Dump at the Biden-Harris inauguration – there’s no way in hell the usual ceremony and all of the hoopla can take place.
On January 20th, we will still have a pandemic raging throughout the country.
Manxome Bromide
@Omnes Omnibus:
This may be the most wonderful metaphor I have ever seen for the emotional questions I’ve been facing all month. My hat is off to you.
lowtechcyclist
@dmsilev: Yay!!!!!!
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl: You may be right. But I just don’t want the complicity of elected Republicans to be flushed down the memory hole after this is all over. The stain of this moment needs to stay with them. In January, everyone in the media, and practically everyone on the Dem side of the aisle in both houses of Congress, will be treating elected Republicans with the same degree of respect and comity as always.
Among other things, 2020 has been a series of moments that have defined why GOP delenda est should be a rallying cry. We can’t go on pretending they’re anything but a bunch of traitors who went along with their leader while he let a quarter of a million Americans die, and then tried to wreck our democracy.
There are moments that call for strategizing. There comes a time to just pull out the sledgehammer.
Chris Johnson
@jl: One thing I’m noticing about the Lincoln Project is they’re increasingly radicalized, for understandable reasons.
Right-wing terrorists are threatening them, their families, their children, and they’re not messing around. The LP are getting a really visceral lesson in the form of the beast they grew from a pup, and they’re not liking it one bit.
Hopefully it’s making a big impression.
J R in WV
@raven:
I’m pretty sure it’s illegal for a minor under 21 y o to even buy ammunition for a long gun. My grandma had to buy my .22 plinking ammo back when she was teaching me to shoot well.
Also pretty sure that’s a Federal statute. So there’s more to this story than the despicable wurm is telling the Post.