According to a Reuters/Ipsos poll, 73% of those polled agreed that President-elect Joe Biden had won the election. But when asked specifically whether Biden had 'rightfully won,' Republicans showed suspicion https://t.co/RI93qv60Q2 pic.twitter.com/1wavN1RojV
— Reuters (@Reuters) November 19, 2020
At some level, Republicans know perfectly well that their guy lost the popular vote, just as he did in 2016. (And as Bush did in 2000, for that matter.) Rather than accept the fact that they’re in the minority (dreadful word!), they choose to insist that only rigging and cheating can win the White House. Ergo, when it’s plain a Democrat has more votes, well…
Just to put into perspective the poll that 50% of R's think Biden stole this election…in a 2012 PPP poll 49% of R's thought Acorn (which didn't exist by then) stole the election for Obama. And 52% of R's felt Acorn stole it for Obama in 2008. https://t.co/ofiBay4AR6
— Danny Strong (@Dannystrong) November 19, 2020
Wolverines!
"A second official tells CNN their goal is to set so many fires that it will be hard for the Biden administration to put them all out."https://t.co/mmpa7FO1mf
— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) November 18, 2020
First step towards disarming the GOP death cult has to be discouraging its leaders from ginning up the rampant imaginary terrors of their more impressionable followers…
Screenshotting this for posterity. We can’t allow ourselves to forget who perpetrated, supported, and/or failed to stand up to this disinformation campaign, this attack on democracy. pic.twitter.com/fmHOedDOCY
— Kate Starbird (@katestarbird) November 19, 2020
On The Road After Dark – Mike in Oly – Fall Foliage – My Backyard
dmsilev
How crazy have things gotten! Well, some of the cult have turned on Tucker Carlson because he apparently briefly came within shouting distance of being a journalist and asked one of Trump’s Elite Legal Strike Force if they could possibly share even just a wee bit of evidence for all that fraud they’re claiming.
HumboldtBlue
Biden has surpassed 80 million votes. Absurd numbers.
Biden/Harris has received more than 10 million votes than any other presidential candidate.
The vote lead is more than six million.
That’s an avalanche.
jl
I didn’t see this news on BJ yet.
Seeing is believing with any GOP official, but the two MI legislative leaders say that they gave Trump a demand letter on covid-19 assistance and that they stand on their statements that the election is over in MI. We’ll see. I think the MI election is certified early next week.
Rural and conservative MI, as well as a few college towns, are getting slammed right now. I hadn’t thought of a covid-19 angle for their trip. We’ll see it. Won’t congratulate them until I see a certified honest election, though.
@BenjySarlin
” The MI GOP leaders told Trump they desperately need coronavirus relief money and that they’re not going to mess with the election result. Seems like the pretty blunt implication here that the president’s focus on the latter issue is distracting from the former. ”
https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/1329928158892666882
Edit: if these two MI GOPers are honest about the meeting, I hope one of them wore a wire. Would be interesting to hear the meeting.
Another Scott
Good company to keep (masked and 6 feet away for less than 15 minutes).
Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
HumboldtBlue
Ok, who is this commenter?
Own up.
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: LOL!
“Cheeto-humping fucknuggets.”
“Nuttier than squirrel turds.”
Zelma
I have to admit that, while I am very happy that Joe won, am filled with a kind of dread about the country’s future. What scares me is that I fully understand the behavior of the Republicans. 70 plus million voters supported Trump. He got 10 million more votes than in 2016. He brought those voters out. They came out for him. Many of them love him. And any politician who is looking for a future in the Republican Party knows that. So they daren’t cross him because what matters to those people is maintaining their power and position.
I don’t know how a democracy survives when one of its two major parties has become an anti-democratic organization. Sorry to be so pessimistic but I’ve spent my life reading history and democracies are very fragile constructions. Ours is threatened.
cain
@Zelma:
You need to reform how information is propagated. These people are put into news bubble and have absolutely no idea what reality is.
It’s insidious and we need to find a way to do this without running afoul of the 1st amendment.
MobiusKlein
“A second official tells CNN their goal is to set so many fires that it will be hard for the Biden administration to put them all out.”
CNN needs to quit sharing anonymous crap like this. If that official feels so strongly, they can use official whistleblowing channels, and be remembered as a hero, vs a simpering worm.
West of the Rockies
Any way Team Biden could make known through a back alley contact to Team Clump that if Trump wants to “start fires,” the new AG will take a scorched earth approach to all things Trump? Yes, I know Biden won’t really install a dirty AG, but there have got to be grave repercussions for this horse shit.
jl
If the two MI GOPers are honest and keep their pre-Trump meeting promise, then Trumpster coup plotting gets a wee bit harder. GA election was certified. If MI is certified early next week, and WI is too hard to get due to state constitutional and legislative hurdles to electoral vote stealing, then only path left is AZ, NV, and PA.
Starfish
@cain: The leadership of this country is creating that information vacuum. They had an entire Senate subcommittee meeting on how big medicine is denying us hydroxychloroquine
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/ron-johnson-hydroxychloroquine-senate-hearing-coronavirus-trump.html
RaflW
I’ve seen that Republican leaders are worried that GA voters of a certain type will just not bother to vote in the runoff since it’s all ‘rigged’ and going to be ‘fraudulently decided’. So earlier today I tweeted my proposed an Alternative Postcards to Voters project. Dunno how to get the lists, but here’s the sample text.
“Dear MAGAdude, I hope you know how much Nancy Pelosi is counting on you voting in this sham election. Boycotting it will really, really stick it to the Demoncrats. Stay home! Save Trump. Thank you.”
CaseyL
@jl: That story isn’t as clear cut as it seems. The two legislators said they had “not yet” heard any information that would change the result of the election, and in the next breath state that any allegations of fraud need to be taken seriously and investigated.
They left themselves an out. They might be looking for some money, for “covid relief,” after which they might suddenly remember that they did hear information that could lead to changing the election results.
But if that’s the game they’re playing, they have to move fast. I think Michigan gets certified on Monday.
Poe Larity
None of this liberal negativity can change Don Jr’s positivity.
cckids
@mrmoshpotato:
The slapping the camera! Just golden.
cain
@Starfish:
Basically they are believing their own bullshit and sane ones will be replaced with folks like Ron Johnson. It’s a dangerous time.
jl
@CaseyL: Yeah, of course they left themselves an out, they’re GOP. So they had to have an escape clause, just to keep a chit in the pot, or a sad lame attempt to throw MI GOP Trumspters a scrap.
But, as you say, hard to say how to get a solid plan in place by Monday. If it weren’t for the covid-19 emergency in MI that I didn’t think about, I wouldn’t have put any faith in what they said.
We’ll see what’s up Monday.
CaseyL
@mrmoshpotato: OMG, she’s **wonderful**! I’m not her, but I’d love to be her when I grow up.
Cheeto-humping fucknuggets is how I will refer to the GOP from now on, voters and pols alike.
RaflW
@Zelma: It seems to me that getting Trump out of office, and into as much legal jeopardy as fast as possible would solve a lot of the Frankenstein creators problems.
To be clear, I just mean quietly, unobtrusively stepping aside so that Trump will face the legal consequences he’s earned. And his close family and associates. There’s no need for the next DOJ to play dirty or do anything particularly out of bounds, except for the norm that ex-presidents don’t get dinged.
But every other norm has fallen, so why keep this one?
I suppose the trick, since most elected Republicans are atrophied and deeply invested in learned helplessness (just look at Cornyn bleating that Congress should do something about Covid relief), coupled with all their apparatuses being leaky as sieves, that they can’t sort out how to give him a series of undetectable pushes towards natural consequences, undetected. Sucks to be them.
jl
@RaflW: It did occur to me that if there are enough slam dunk state cases waiting for Trump, the establishment GOP and the Dems may be counting on that taking Trump off the board, so problem solved if they can just wait out his hi-jinx. Not sure how I feel about that.
I don’t think there is any excuse for waiting out an attempt to destroy our democratic system of government
Edit: Just thought that unless the state cases can put Trump in isolation in Pelican Bay type supermax, he won’t be off the board, multiple criminal convictions or not.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Starfish:
This shit pisses me off. Nursing in particular has spent decades building up public trust. It’s one of the most trusted professions according to Gallup; has been for the last 19 years. I’ve read about anecdotal stories of nurses and medical staff being blamed for the shutdowns by people; that it’s all their fault or something! It took decades for nursing to become the most trusted profession in the US for 19 years; it only took 10 months for Trump and the GOP to potentially destroy that. This hits me personally
RaflW
@mrmoshpotato: No idea who she is, but I’d imagine she knew Ann Richards and Molly Ivins.
RaflW
@jl: Yeah, what I’m talking about doesn’t solve the crisis ramp-up he is doing now thru Jan 20 out of desperation. And sure, he could tweet from some minimum security white collar ‘workhouse’ (the Minnesota euphemism for the easy prison) and keep the MAGAs riled up.
But a couple of years of really public airing of his dirty laundry, particularly the likely sexual abuse and, to a lesser extent, the wild tax evasion, might not really keep him in good company outside the basest base.
Kay
Here’s the story on how half of Republicans believed Obama stole the election in both 2008 and 2012.
They were always going to get this bad. They ramped up the fraud allegations more each time the Democrat won, leading to where we are today.
Wisconsin has voter ID now- didn’t change a thing about Republicans believing the election was stolen when the Democrat wins.
Mary G
@HumboldtBlue: This seems to be her TikTok account. I don’t belong so I couldn’t play the other videos.
Kay
About that voter ID. Republicans said for a decade that when voter ID was put in they would stop saying the election was stolen every time they lose.
They got voter ID put in and…that didn’t change their beliefs about black people voting fraudulently at all. In fact, they claim voter fraud more often and more vehemently now than they did before they put voter ID in.
Can’t fix an imaginary problem.
Platonicspoof
Once again . . . .
RaflW
@Kay: Over a decade ago I was at a national conference for my denomination. It moves around the US, and that June it was in Salt Lake City. The org I ran at the time had a voter integrity project (I facilitated the volunteer leadership, not the content), and we got a workshop slot.
I don’t remember the name of the guy, but he was this classic right wing guy in a big ass cowboy hat. He was a special guest co-presenter. He had a great patter about how we probably disagreed on just about everything in fiscal and social policy. But we had common cause hating on paperless touchscreen voting.
But he was the rare exception back then. It was really the liberals (and a few progressive state SOSes) who were insisting on hand marked paper ballots, and high quality post-election audits.
Now that the right sees blood in the water for touchscreen voting and secret, untraceable tabulations, I’m sort of taken aback by the whiplash.
Kay
@RaflW:
It won’t matter though. It isn’t the ballot process they object to, it’s the voters.
In 2008 it was ACORN, in 2012 it was a lack of voter ID in some states, in 2020 it’s “dominion”.
50% of Republicans will never believe an election won by a Democrat is valid.
Redshift
@RaflW:
I don’t think that’s learned helplessness (and Chris Hayes made the same mistake.) I think it’s blame-shifting to Congress vs. the Senate – the endless “it’s Pelosi’s fault there isn’t covid relief, really!
Kay
@RaflW:
I mean, they pretty much say it. “If we just throw out the results in these three Democratic counties we win”
They don’t think people in those D counties should be voting at all.
Redshift
@Kay: Of course it didn’t change anything. The purpose of voter ID was voter suppression, not election integrity, and and any promise it would satisfy their concerns was as phony as their concerns.
#AllRepublicanOutrageIsFake
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Poe Larity:
Ha! this is the kind of bright-side-looking we need more of around here
@HumboldtBlue: glad I’m old and most of my meatspace acquaintance is not terribly on line so I can steal “nuttier’n’a squirrel turd!” and if no one quite thinks I made it up, they won’t know where I stole it.
Redshift
@Kay: Remember when they used to say “if it wasn’t for the black vote, Democrats would never win”?
Kay
@Redshift:
God, yes.
At some point we have to raise an objection to Republicans smearing so many parts of the country. It’s really pretty outrageous and I don’t know why they get away with it. Rein that shit in.
TriassicSands
It probably does’t. But it isn’t “an anti-democratic organization.” It’s a cult. And that could ultimately be its downfall. When Trump, the worshipped cult leader is gone, the infighting for supremacy and/or leadership could destroy it. Imagine a battle for the nomination between Don Jr. and Ivanka, both of whom, apparently, want to be Emperor or Empress. There could be bodies.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Redshift: remember Bill Schneider on CNN in the 90s? that and “the gender gap is a problem for Democrats!” was his jam
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I hate these fucking people. I wish they’d just fuck off and die already, and it pains me to say that about anybody. But I can’t help feeling this way.
Kay
@Redshift:
I knew it wouldn’t.
We moved immediately to “all absentee ballots are fraud”. The same absentee ballots Republicans have used for years immediately became fraudulent when Democrats started using them.
The focus on the DELIVERY of the absentee ballots is amusing to me. “The trucks came in with the ballots! Fraud!”. How did they think they move boxes of ballots? On a bicycle? Why would a truck be suspicious when you’re moving heavy boxes from place to place?
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Redshift:
I’m old enough to remember, “Get off the Democratic plantation” was supposed to be some kind of GOP outreach to black voters. Racist and denies black people agency
Yutsano
@HumboldtBlue: Totes Subaru Diane.
Winston
Interesting Covid facts today.
First day new cases exceeded 200,000 in USA.
Florida reports the exact same number of new cases AND deaths for the second day in a row. What are the odds?
TriassicSands
@Kay:
Votes are normally moved one at a time on the backs of turtles. It takes longer, but, damn, are turtles reliable!
Dopey-o
That phrase is heard in a Netflix promo for a film / series about John Brown the abolitionist.
danielx
@TriassicSands:
I’m trying to imagine either of those two being in charge of anything bigger than a convenience store at this point. Providing either could pass a pre-employment screening, which seems questionable.
Redshift
@Zelma:
This fact gets mentioned a lot, but the context is that as many as 28 million more people voted in 2020 than in 2016. About 8 million of that is population growth, and the rest is higher turnout.
So while it’s fine to be appalled that anyone additional voted for him, it seems far more likely that the difference was not having a Republican primary that turned off supporters of other candidates than it was Trump having a lot of enthusiastic new followers.
Mallard Filmore
@RaflW:
I could see Biden giving a pardon to Trump provided that Trump issues no pardons of his own.
Trump has enough problems from the states to worry about Federal charges.
I, a sane person, do not see Trump accepting the offer.
Winston
@Starfish: As I recall, quinine was used to cause miscarriages back before Roe. I wonder if they know that?
Redshift
@TriassicSands: Maybe, but it’s not really a Trump cult, it’s a conservative media bubble cult. Trump sticking around and demanding that everyone pay attention to him and no one else complicates things a bit, but once he’s no longer in office, Fox will probably have a lot more control over how much he appears in the bubble.
Mallard Filmore
@Dopey-o:
Almost the same phrase here:
https://margaretandhelen.com/2018/11/08/criminals-nazis-dead-brothel-owners-these-are-a-few-of-my-favorite-things-thursdaythoughts/
“Republicans are nuttier than squirrel shit. #Resist”
TriassicSands
@danielx:
Yeah, but the same could be said for their Dad, who pretty much took the Peter Principle and beat it to death. He surpassed his level of incompetence when he was in kindergarten*. That’s the business equivalent of traveling faster than the speed of light.
*Opinions vary. Some believe it was in the womb.
Redshift
@Mallard Filmore: I have pretty much resigned myself to the idea that Trump isn’t going to be charged with federal crimes because it would “look bad.” But the rest of the administration have to be fair game.
TriassicSands
@Redshift:
We’ll have to wait and see. Trump may have his own plans, which may depend on the wealth of others — nothing new there.
Personally, I’m just going to hope for a “tragic” accident. ASAP.
JaySinWA
@CaseyL: I am not getting knicker knotted about what looks like boilerplate caveats from a politician. It is interesting that they throw in lines about not allowing intimidation or threats to keep votes from being counted.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
That is so funny you would say that, because she and I actually look alike superficially (short hair, huuuge glasses) (OTOH, her hair is whiter, and she has way more wrinkles) and share a salty vocabulary.
I’m sort of chuffed that you picked up on that.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Redshift:
@TriassicSands:
State level prosecutions might be enough combined with loans coming due in a few years. Definitely agree with other admin officials being fair game. ICE has a lot to answer for
JaySinWA
@TriassicSands:
Are you throwing out Game of Thrones allusions here?
Roger Moore
@jl:
My fervent hope is that the Trumpist wing of the party will see the silence of the establishment Republicans as abandoning Dear Leader in his hour of need. They’re really a gang of equivocating poltroons who are hoping they can just hide out until this is all over. Their just deserts is for their silence to be interpreted exactly the opposite way: as silent support for Trump by the Democrats and silent abandonment of him by Trumpists.
Danielx
@JaySinWA:
well, there is a certain parallel between the political situation today and Cersei deciding to burn the motherfucker down….
mrmoshpotato
@TriassicSands:
Flying “leap” through a window pane into a lava lake?
SiubhanDuinne
Donald Trump was largely absent/distant while Don Jr., Ivanka, and Eric were growing up. Now I’m in NO WAY defending Trump for how his three oldest kids turned out, but I do think it’s odd that Ivana Zelníčková Trump, the parent who had by far the greater influence on them during their formative years, is never mentioned — let alone given any responsibility for — the fuckupedness of three so-called “adult” kids.
mrmoshpotato
Anyone else need more info before deciding on Cole’s “What to thaw” tweet?
Roger Moore
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
And completely misrepresents what was evil about slavery. It’s part of a larger conservative attempt to whitewash slavery. See, the thing that made slavery bad wasn’t that the slaves were treated as less than human; it’s that the slavers were too paternalistic toward the slaves. The slavers gave the slaves roofs over their heads and food in their bellies, and that generosity made the slaves lazy and dependent. We’re supposed to forget who built the roof and grew the food and see the slavers as excessively generous for giving back some of what they extracted from their slaves under pain of the lash.
Roger Moore
@Mallard Filmore:
I hate the idea of pardoning Trump. The only way it would be even remotely acceptable is if Trump first has to publicly confess, in detail, to what it is he wants a pardon for. I can barely accept the idea of trading a pardon for a full accounting of Trump’s wrongdoing, Truth and Reconciliation-style. But a full and unconditional pardon should be right out.
Mallard Filmore
@Roger Moore:
Golly. Those slaves had no interest in working hard to make someone else rich!
Mallard Filmore
@Roger Moore:
As much as I agree with the sentiment, I think it is an acceptable trade-off if used to short-circuit all the other pardons Trump could pass out.
It’s not like there is a danger he could “get away”.
Emma from FL
Strangely enough, I really don’t care if Trump is ever brought to trial in a federal court. I am more than happy to leave him to the tender mercies of Letitia James AND the oligarchs holding his IOUs. I do want to remind him every day that his piss-poor presidency is bracketed by Barack Obama at one end — the man that laughed at him — and Joe Biden on the other — the man that beat him like a rented mule.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
Do you think that is even possible? Let alone probable? Can he even remember yesterday, would he have any idea what he did or that it was wrong? I seriously doubt he can because of his narcissism. Now I’d also bet that you were taking that into consideration…
Personally, I say no pardon for him. First it would be a massive misuse of the pardon process. Second how can you pardon someone for being such a disaster? He’s not just made a bad decision, he hasn’t made one right decision in 5 yrs. He gets a reward for all his bullshit? In an earlier time he’d face a firing squad for his level of destruction. Even if he is a moron. Reward him for what he’s done? No Fucking Way.
smike
@Redshift:
If there were 28 million additional voters, and tRump got 10 million of those, doesn’t that mean that we got 18 million of them? though troubling, it still sounds good to me.
Brachiator
@Redshift:
I’m not sure what federal crimes Trump might be charged with. But I hope that New York continues to pursue him over his taxes and anything else they might be able to nail him on.
Sebastian
@Redshift:
You are projecting our current state of knowledge into the future. A lot of things are going to see daylight very soon and public opinion will change quickly. Very quickly.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
I wasn’t thinking of that specifically, but I do deeply dislike the idea of an unconditional pardon. My biggest goal is to get to the bottom of everything that happened under Trump, and to get it out into the public eye in a way that will be hard for Republicans to disclaim later. Prosecution is one way of doing that, but an admission of guilt in exchange for a pardon is another. It will be much harder for Trumpists to ignore when it’s coming straight from Trump’s mouth, especially when it’s done in a way where he has no reason to lie and every reason to tell the full truth.
2liberal
https://youtu.be/I6sVow9l8H4
H/t John Scalzi whatever.scalzi.com and what happens with the process the rest of the way to Jan 20th
trnc
First pardon by DT would go to DT if that’s actually possible (and I’m sure the SC would say it is but shouldn’t imply precedent, wink, wink). So, no leverage regarding other pardons.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Sadly, I cannot see any circumstance under which Trump will admit guilt for anything. I also expect to see him pardon himself and maybe his kids. I don’t see that he needs to or would try to make any deal with Biden.
I also imagine that his last pardon list will raise a few eyebrows.
Winston
There should be no pardons. The crimes are ongoing and haven’t finished. There is still the Mueller investigation to sort thru. His retribution against the democratic party is to distract from that as “here is an example of what you did to me”. Only it wasn’t the democratic party conducting a witch hunt and it wasn’t democrats or a fraud, it was republicans in the DOJ under an AG that he appointed and subsequently fired. The obstruction of Justice is well documented by evidence that is beyond refute. So is the collusion.
Now he is conducting a fraud. That is in addition to his original crimes. If I can see that, there are a lot of lawyers that can too.
He should pay for all of this with loss of liberty, loss of fortune and his name taking place along side of Benedict Arnold. Traitors. As well as those who facilitated this farce. And there are a lot of them
We can pardon rank and file voters for being brainwashed and stupid.
Amir Khalid
@Roger Moore:
It is surely premature to talk about pardoning Trump for anything. Indict, try, convict him for some number of his crimes against New York state and/or the US. Let him serve out his sentence(s). If he is still alive after that and can show honest remorse, then it will make sense to consider a pardon.
Ford made a terrible mistake when he granted Nixon a blanket pardon for crimes that Nixon had not even been accused of, crimes that should have been accounted for in a trial. Biden should not repeat that mistake with Trump.
Kent
No way in hell Biden pardons Trump. Ford’s pardon of NIxon contributed to his defeat. And not after all the scorched earth campaigning he did and is still doing.
Biden might call off the dogs, or stay very hands off. But he will let the fucker twist and squirm under endless investigations and such. If the Southern District of NY wants to dig into Trump’s affairs I don’t see Biden getting in the way.
Winston
On Jan 20 he should be arrested, arraigned and bail set at 5 billion. Let’s see how many pro bono Rudyoozing brains come forth to defend him.
Ksmiami
@Zelma: agreed- first we need the Dems to prosecute enablers and conspirators- then we need to take a sledgehammer to Rt wing propaganda disguised as news. This includes Sinclair, Fox, Oann. The denazification of Germany didn’t include leaving Goebbels in charge. We cannot be a world power when 50 percent of the populace live in an alternate universe. That said, Biden needs an all hands on deck PR campaign to order the transition to happen yesterday
Amir Khalid
@Kent:
Biden has said he’s staying hands off, that it’s not POTUS’ place to politicise the DoJ by directing it on what to investigate or not, whom to indict or not. I think he’s got that right.
trnc
It had already been verified by election day that he
Of course, all of the details and inner workings do need to be made public, but try not to be too disappointed when it doesn’t change a single mind of the people who voted for him.
Winston
Trump should also stand trial for deliberate indifference mass murder of 260,000 + Americans.
TriassicSands
@JaySinWA:
No, this would way more violent. But plenty of monsters.
trnc
@Winston: Yes, but I would suspect a civil suit over wrongful deaths would be more likely to succeed. Sadly, being a policymaker gives him a lot of wiggle room around whatever law would apply, even though it was his indifference that led to many of those deaths.
Having said that, I still can’t believe there hasn’t been a libel suit against him by Yovonavitch, Vindeman and numerous others whom he has outright lied about. Add Dominion to the list, too.
TriassicSands
@mrmoshpotato:
That might suffice, as long as there is video.
patrick II
@Brachiator:
There have been no laws written to enforce the emoluments clause of the constitution so there can be no criminal penalties. But, since the constitution is the most basic law of the land, I would hope the government could sue to get back every illegal penny he has taken.
That would also get around the self pardon problem and hit him where it hurts the most.
patrick II
@Kay:
You’re skipping over 2016 when I think it made a significant difference. But what they call proper identification I call voter suppression since Walker closed many of the license bureaus in the city of Milwaukee. The hard work of voter registration and returning those voters’ eligibility has taken a few years.
Winston
@trnc: Whether he could weasel out of it, the charge stands. I would like to see what a jury would rule. If guilty, he should be hanged or placed before a firing squad. If he’s lucky, life without parole along with a sizeable part of his enablers and accessories. To me this is the greatest crime ever committed against the American people.
Mai Naem mobile
I saw an unnamed source blurb somewhere that Biden supposedly doesn’t want to investigate Donny because he thinks his whole presidency will end up being sucked up by Donny investigations. Then I saw the interview with Obama where Obama said 2020 was not 2008 and Dubbya was not Donny. There is no way Biden and Obama haven’t talked about this. Not sure how you do it but I want Donny’s people prosecuted quickly, not deny them a fair trial etc but not turn it into seven year legal battles where the public forgets what they were even prosecuted for.
Mai Naem mobile
I occasionally will look at responses to a comment on Twitter and end up wading through right wing world on Twitter. I think I’ve developed a good feel for when they’re real people and not bots. It can give you an idea of what’s bubbling up. I’ve seen comments here and there about how Stacey Abrams is registering illegal voters etc. and I am betting the RW is going to try and ACORN Abrams and her group.
Geminid
I say appoint a good AG and Justice Department leadership, and select strong U.S. Attorneys, as many as possible from the Obama administration, like Joyce Vance and Preet Bharara. They can empanel grand juries to hear evidence on criminal conduct. And then let the chips fall where they may.
There will be disappointment for some of us. Not all of the trump administration’s malfeasance is prosecutable. These actions can at least be exposed by Congressional investigators and journalists. As to potential criminal law violations, the smart actors will have skated inside the law, and will get off. There are plenty of dumb ones though.
Prosecutions under federal anti-corruption law will be constrained by recent Supreme Court decisions first in the case of Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, second in the New Jersey Bridgegate case. These decisions limited convictions to where the quid pro quo is a financial benefit, not a political one. Even if the Supreme Court could be expanded, you’d have to expand it a lot to override the second result, as it was a 9-0 ruling. Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote the opinion. She is a former federal prosecutor and trial judge, and knows what she is talking about. Of course, this particular criminal statute is not necessarily the only one applicable to administration crimes.
Pete Mack
Looks like I won’t be able to see my sister this year, but will be able to see parents. All of us have been isolating pretty carefully for a week now, but my BIL had an unavoidable business trip, and can’t get an instant test on Monday or Tuesday, because *there just aren’t enough tests*. It’s insane how much govt money goes to vaccine compared to how little goes to testing. The vax is useless if everyone comes down with the virus first!
Aziz, light!
Junior and Vanky, if either should run, would have zero traction in any upcoming primary.
Starfish
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The expense and unattainability of medical care has eroded trust in the medical profession before all this became visible.
Mousebumples
Starfish
@Mai Naem mobile: I usually assume they are all bots because the alternative is depressing.
Geminid
@Starfish: like you say, people are already alienated by the cost of health care. And this crisis will have starkly exposed the for-profit health care industry by the time it is over. I’m not sure what the solution is. But cost growth benefits executives on both the provider and the insurance sides. Implementing a good Public Option reform could counteract this dynamic.
Whether its because of insurance company propaganda, or a basic skepticism of government, or both, the Single Payer reform is a heavy lift politically. You could put a group of people in a room with the most articulate Nobel Prize winning economist and have him make the most effective single payer pitch possible, and many would walk away saying, “Sounds great. But I’ll believe that when I see it.” Over time, the public option would provide a way for them to see it, as more and more of their friends and family get insured under the public option.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
If they thought Trump won or had an actual path to staying in office, they wouldn’t be setting those fires would they? Because they might be the ones who have to put them out. It’s a huge tell that they’re talking about setting fires. Also, it’s a really shitty thing to do to the country and Biden should be pointing that out about 60 times a day.
low-tech cyclist
I’d say that slogan was really about solidifying the support of white racists. The not-so-underlying message was “blacks are lazy bums, and Dems keep their support by giving them handouts.”
cmorenc
@Zelma:
Fortunately, Trump is 74 yo and not 54, and has some co-morbidities beside just age. He wont arrive at 78 in anywhere near as robust health as Biden. Which doesn’t mean he won’t be a malignant force in American politics for awhile, but consider the alternative possibility of the effect another aggressively outsize ex-President with a magnetic grip on a huge faction within his party had on the GOP a century ago (Teddy Roosevelt) whose antics split the party in 1912, paving the way for Wilson (D) to win. History doesn’t often exactly repeat, but it does very often rhyme.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@jl: It wouldn’t surprise me if Trump cuts off any COVID relief for Michigan as a consequence of that.
zhena gogolia
@TriassicSands:
I’d watch that.
Matt McIrvin
@jl: Monday is effectively the date in Pennsylvania too. It’s the deadline for official county certification, and I don’t think there’s anything like a state board of canvassers who can override that. Nevada is on Tuesday, and in Arizona, Monday is the county deadline (and the rest of the process is in the hands of a Democratic secretary of state; I know someone who personally knows her and describes her as having zero tolerance for bullshit).
So the door is closing fast for any more funny business with elector certification.
sphouch
Completely off-topic, but it’s kind of awesome to see you guys capturing a tweet from a high-school classmate of mine!
Uncle Cosmo
@HumboldtBlue: That sweet ole gramma deserves a place in the Biden Administration. Maybe in the soon-to-be-created Department Of Trolling The Ever Loving Shit Out Of Trump Cultists.
Michael Cain
@Emma from FL:
Yeah, the whole thing feels like a house of cards to me. IIRC, $400M in loans due in 2021 that have Donny boy’s personal guarantee. Deutsche Bank says they’re done with him. None of the US banks have been willing to deal with him for years. Everyone’s watching now, there’s not going to be hundreds of millions of dollars show up from mysterious sources. Cascading bankruptcies and the oligarchs pick up assets that will probably be fine in the long term at fire sale prices.
CliosFanBoy
@Zelma: I agree completely. (and I’m a professional historian: a professor of modern US history who has spent 40+ years studying coups, revolutions, and how democrarcies are born and how they die)
Uncle Cosmo
On the downside, the infighting might well be won by someone really competent – with enough of Orangecandyass’s “charisma” plus specific authoritarian objectives and formidable organizational and political skills. Imagine a Brigham Young who aims not to find a home for his people but to demolish and supplant the one they live in. Nehemiah Scudder, if you will.
CliosFanBoy
@Uncle Cosmo: Nehemiah Scudder, if you will.
AKA Senator Cotton from Arkansas.
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: my go-to phrase is “buggier than batshit” but “nuttier than squirrel turds” works too!
J R in WV
@Yutsano:
@SiubhanDuinne:
I was going with Betty Cracker’s Mom, but Subaru Dianne works too.
Uncle Cosmo
A lot lower than the odds of someone along the reporting chain copying the numbers from the day before by accident. A variation of Hanlon’s razor: Never attribute to nefarious schemes what can adequately be explained by clerical error.
Zelma
@CliosFanBoy:
Me too! Actually, I was a British historian but I taught lots of different subjects. Right now I’m reading a lot of ancient history because it’s an area I don’t know well.
My favorite quote about history:
“History is meant to be a bummer, not a stroll down memory lane.” Simon Schama
Alan Barney
@Zelma:
We have reached a point where one political party – The Republican Party. – refuses to accept a well won election. The Republican Party has no platform. No expressed ideas beside, “What he (Trump) says.”. We are watching Republicans dissolve into a well financed, well armed, mob that will shoot you dead in the streets to stay in power.