.
It’s probably too late to change the minds of those among your friends & loved ones who want a “real Thanksgiving, just like every other year”… but some people may still be indecisive, wondering whether the increased level of difficulty involved in ‘celebrating’ a not-always-stress-free BIG! FAMILY! EVENT! is really worth the effort. Give them whatever plausible arguments can be tailored to their excuses. Here’s some samples…
Here's what an ER doc told me about Thanksgiving when I asked yesterday: pic.twitter.com/nlNgbD7jFf
— Charlie Warzel (@cwarzel) November 20, 2020
For an unfortunately significant number of people, the choice will be one last Thanksgiving or many Thanksgivings in the coming years.
For some, it will be a choice between skipping Thanksgiving this year or causing the death of relatives.
— Steven J. Frisch (@stevenjfrisch) November 15, 2020
Things were very bad in March and April, and now they are much worse. We can’t afford the risk https://t.co/51PnDTpqUg
— The Cut (@TheCut) November 16, 2020
As I mentioned in this interview with @BuzzFeedNews, my family often has 50+ people together for Thanksgiving — but this year, it’ll be just (our quarantine bubble of) 5.
Let’s make this sacrifice now so that we can all be together later with everyone alive & well at the table. https://t.co/B12tpTq025
— Dr. Maimuna Majumder ??? (@maiamajumder) November 15, 2020
Better a Zoom Thanksgiving than an ICU Christmas.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) November 20, 2020
Huge queues are forming across the US as people rush to get Covid tests ahead of next week's Thanksgiving holiday
But how effective is getting a test before you go? We asked an experthttps://t.co/bUv4ojCm1B pic.twitter.com/cTKHhPJ4Wd
— BBC News (World) (@BBCWorld) November 20, 2020
Here's a thing I want everyone to understand.
There is a roughly 12-day lag between rising cases rising hospitalizations.
So the 1.5 million (!!!) confirmed cases from the last 2 weeks have not yet factored into stories about packed emergency rooms. https://t.co/JID98tWjbt pic.twitter.com/3DNeiX2esb
— Ed Yong (@edyong209) November 15, 2020
Everyone misses their loved ones. Everyone’s kids are growing up fast. Everyone values celebrating holidays and life milestones with the people they care about.
Don’t lie to yourself that you somehow feel these things more than the people who are being responsible.
— laurasaurus ?? (@iamlaurasaurus) November 20, 2020
Fair Economist
Halloween parties spread it between families. Thanksgiving will spread it within families. They are horribly synergistic.
debbie
Apocalyptic is right. If you thought now was bad, just wait ’til mid-December, then just wait ’till mid-January, then just wait ’til …. Does anyone really see a time when this will be a nuisance and nothing more?
(I was so hoping this was a T-Day recipe thread…)
tinare
I had agreed a few weeks ago to go my brother’s for thanksgiving. It would just be the three of us, but he and his wife are wing nuts and I knew they weren’t being safe. They went on vacation to New Hampshire and to Florida to visit my niece this year. I was trying to figure out how to get out of it and my brother called yesterday to say that they had been to a friend’s last weekend to watch the game and the friend tested positive for COVID and my sister-in-law now has a fever. So while I of course hope they will be fine — they are both relatively healthy normally — I’m relieved to stay home without having to be the one to cancel.
ThresherK
My wife and I had spent each Xgiving and Xmas with her parents, and then dessert at my wife’s best friend’s family’s home. Then my FiL passed, and then my MiL, and we were down to dinner on both holidays at the wife’s best friend’s family’s.
We don’t have kids. My Dad and two siblings are widespread. I liked going there for the second-hand happiness of these people; they went to our wedding in the ’90s, they sora accept having me over as the price of getting my social butterfly beloved wife over.
This year it’s Boston Market takeout supplanted with a dish or two from our own oven.
I get thermal scanned every day going into my workplace. I’ve seen the state maps–they’re all awful except for <1% of the country.
I can’t risk this. I can’t stand anyone who’ll risk this and spread it.
raven
I guess if this constant pounding saves one life it’s worth it.
Raoul Paste
Justin Trudeau has proclaimed that a normal Christmas is out of the question
That’s what leadership looks like
Chyron HR
@tinare:
They know it’s too early to blame it on Biden, right?
geg6
My usual family Thanksgiving is about 15-16 family and, almost always, some “orphans” and also friends who stop by for appetizers or dessert. Probably 25 or 30 by the end of the day. This year, it’s just me, my John and one of my sisters and BIL, who have been our COVID bubble. Everyone else is staying within their households. For our bubble, we aren’t even cooking, which is tough because we love to cook and, even more so, cook together. But we ordered from a local caterer to keep us from all gathering in the kitchen. It’s supposed to be fairly warm (in the 50s), so we can open some windows for circulation and just dress more warmly than we normally would. Two will dine in the dining room, which is open to the living room where the other two will dine. Masking when not eating or drinking. I feel pretty confident we’ll be safe, especially as I am the only one who has to leave home for work (only 2 days a week and WFH the rest of the work week). I am also tested regularly and can request a test at any time through the university. It’s not how I like to spend my absolute favorite holiday, but it will do and my family will be as safe as possible. That’s all that matters.
lowtechcyclist
Our pattern for the past several years is that my wife, son, and I celebrate Thanksgiving with my extended family up here in the DC area, and we celebrate Christmas with my wife’s extended family in Florida.
My clan decided all the way back in late September that there would be no big Thanksgiving dinner this year, so I’ll be celebrating with just my wife and son.
My wife’s family is all conservative evangelicals. They’ll be getting together for Christmas. We decided weeks ago that we wouldn’t be joining them. We don’t trust their willingness to stay safe.
With any luck, next year will be better, and I want as many of us as possible to be alive and in good health when Thanksgiving 2021 rolls around. In the words of Vampire Weekend, “I don’t wanna live like this, but I don’t wanna die.” So for the next few months at least, we stay in our bubble.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@tinare: Good lord. Talk about the nick of time.
Kent
We are facing a bit of a conundrum in our family.
We are planning Thanksgiving with just our immediate family. However oldest daughter just landed a job working at a local ski resort this winter and moved out this week to join a shared house with two other girls also working at the resort up closer to the mountain. They haven’t started working yet. Apparently the first day will be the day after Thanksgiving and are only doing orientation and training this week. All the indoor places at the resort are closed and they are only running the outdoor spaces under some kind of covid quarantine (no strangers sharing lifts, social distancing on lines, etc.
So daughter wants to come back home for Thanksgiving and bring one of her new roomies. I don’t see the point in letting her come and not the roomie as they are obviously a bubble living together. My wife isn’t going to let me exclude daughter from Thanksgiving. So our bubble is expanding. But I am going to tell my elderly parents to stay home this year. We will be a group of 6.
tinare
@Chyron HR: Not sure they do. We usually manage to avoid politics when it’s just the three of us. I had been dreading the thought that something might come up about the election.
wvng
I’ve enjoyed Thanksgiving with my brother every year for forty years, until now. We’ll be staying home and having a family toast over Zoom, and hopefully next year we can continue the traditional get together for another twenty years. I fail to understand how people can make a different choice, but then I don’t understand how people dying of covid can be screaming at nurses that they don’t have covid. Turns out humanity is far less impressive than I imagined.
O. Felix Culpa
@raven: Absolutely it is. I find it astonishing that people — even on this nearly top 10,000 blog — are still allowing themselves to be guilted into unwise gatherings. FFS, I have children, I have aging parents, I have dear friends that I miss, but I’m not going to endanger them or me or the grocery store clerk by engaging in selfish, reckless behavior. Apparently the message requires a lot of repeating.
Steeplejack (phone)
Question: Is it now “standard” to wear a mask at all times when outside? I thought it was only when you were in the vicinity of other people, but I have seen comments lately criticizing people for not wearing masks in all circumstances outside, e.g., when jogging alone.
raven
@Steeplejack (phone): They are making Pitt and Virginia Tech wear them at all times during the game.
Quinerly
Times like this I am happy to be an only child born of two only children.
No family to worry about. Most all of my friends seem to be doing the right thing. Seems I have surrounded myself with Liberal Democrats who didn’t marry, are divorced, and/or didn’t procreate.? I’m working on this copper penny bathroom floor and reading Obama’s book next week. Stay safe jackals.
raven
@O. Felix Culpa: Ot guilted into not.
debbie
@Steeplejack (phone):
I’ve noticed that more and more people are masking up for their daily walks and bike rides (not runners, though). My county just hit Level 4 and there’s now a curfew. I wasn’t wearing masks for walks, but I think I should start.
dexwood
You’ll have to pry my turkey drumstick from my cold, dead hands is pretty close to what one member of our family is saying. He’ll be joined by 9 or 10 others. Fuck ’em.
BC in Illinois
Sometimes questions answer themselves.
Our semi-extended family includes six households (6 members, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1) extending over three states (Missouri, Iowa, North Carolina). None of these states are doing well in their Covid response. There was some talk in the family of how we could get together in small gatherings. (Every get-together would be 10 people or fewer.) The NC couple are the youngest and most willing to drive to the midwest and back. The Iowa family is the most observant about Covid precautions, yet they were thinking that they could drive into town for a controlled 48-hour visit to one household at a time.
That’s where things were at, until yesterday. One daughter sent a message to all the other households. Her teenaged daughter (my eldest g’daughter) had been exposed to someone who had Covid. The g’daughter has tested negative, but her mother – asymptomatic — has tested positive.
So there are no more questions. No one travels. No one gets together. The sister, mother, and aunt of the Covid-positive daughter, who had all got together for an outside, distanced, hour-long meeting on Tuesday are all locked down for the coming week.
And the two-hour Friday evening Zoom meeting – discussing viruses, precautions, what to do with all the food, and names/clothes/toys/stories of the upcoming baby, was hilarious.
Sometimes questions answer themselves. Zoom-thanks-giving it is.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Kent:
This sounds iffy. You don’t know the daughter’s new roomies’ history, for one thing. I see it not as your bubble expanding but as your bubble shrinking, i.e., daughter no longer in it until safety reconfirmed. I hope things work out.
Rusty
After much debate we are having our two oldest that graduated from college home for Thanksgiving with us (and I am also remote during the week, lost job, found job but two states away, moving family on hold during pandemic). So everyone testing before and after Thanksgiving, masks even indoors, designated bathrooms, as must social distancing as we can manage for the few days. We already know there will be no Christmas even with just us the nuclear family. Grandparents live down the street, no Thanksgiving with them, both have high risk conditions. An imperfect situation, but there is some grey between total isolation and a normal Thanksgiving with extended family and friends.
O. Felix Culpa
@raven: Whatever it takes for people to be safe and not spread the disease and overburden our hospitals and endanger healthcare workers.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack (phone): I have not seen anything that says we should and the WI rules, for what they are worth, say masks are unnecessary when outdoors and social distant. That being said, I carry one with me when out so that I have it if I run into people or need to go into a building.
I look forward to being told that I am wrong and a reckless danger to society*
*As if I didn’t know that already.
RandomMonster
We originally planned to host Thanksgiving for RandomWife’s father, sister, and sister’s husband. Thankfully we’ve all collectively decided we don’t want to take the risk, even though we’re all fairly good with preventative measures (though sister and sister’s husband admit to being slightly more lax than we are). Everyone is thinking, “We’ve made it eight months, it would be awful to throw that away by catching the damn thing now.”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kent: That seems reasonable. Maybe you could deliver Thanksgiving dinner to your parents.
Steeplejack (phone)
@raven:
That’s “around other people.” Someone this morning was criticizing someone walking alone on the sidewalk without a mask.
catclub
Next year in … not a funeral home!
Another Scott
@Steeplejack (phone): I wear mine all the time whenever I leave our yard. When we walk Ellie, there’s too likely a chance of some kid coming up behind us on a bike or a skateboard, or other chance encounter. The risk is small, but why increase the chance?
Plus, wearing it all the time makes it more of an automatic habit.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Steeplejack (phone): Everybody has something to say. We had a person here say they washed their hands every time they went from one room to another.
West of the Rockies
@debbie:
Maybe after Super Bowl parties things will tend downward with Biden.
catclub
@Omnes Omnibus: I think the rules are generally put as ‘wear a mask in public’ which busybodies interpret as ‘if I can see you from a quarter mile, wear a mask’ -which of course is stupid.
Dan B
My Mike and I are just the two of us. Mike is afraid of going to the store. I feel it’s having been through a decade during AIDS when we mourned the people who we would not see again. Now we have a disease that we can avoid and a vaccine on the horizon. We find it impossible to understand how people can justify the riskiest gathering. It’s equivalent of the maskless stranger in the store.
We are hard wired to fear the stranger so the stranger in the store frightens but the invisible virus that came with your cousin does not.
I am not looking forward to the stories of relatives who fell ill.
catclub
@West of the Rockies: Not sure if my house is typical, but my house has watched NO NFL games this year. Usual is more like two or three a month.
So much less superb owl enthusiasm – and the hometown team has been winning.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s where I am. Don’t wear a mask when I’m out walking or putzing around, but I carry one in case I get near people.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Now that it’s turned cold, wearing a mask keeps my nose warm.
Another Scott
@raven: My autistic brother has carried a small bottle of Purell with him for years. Uses it very frequently, with great flair. He was ahead of the curve…
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Lacuna Synechdoche
Deleted by author. Quote included an image that wouldn’t paste properly, and without which the comment makes no sense.
Ohio Mom
Both sides of Ohio Family didn’t even discuss this, it was well understood that everyone was staying home by themselves.
For however annoying I sometimes find the lot of them, it is a source of pride for me that everyone I am related to, by blood or marriage, is, on this topic at least, grounded in reality (it’s a long list for another time of the things they are not so clear on).
Ohio Dad did set up a Zoom for his mother, brother and a smattering of cousin’s so we will have that bit of family interaction.
KithKanan
@Steeplejack (phone): FWIW, I’m in about the same place you are on mask-wearing outside. California recently strengthened its statewide mask mandate to make clear it applies to all settings with limited exceptions. We appear to be fine under one of those exceptions, though:
Chief Oshkosh
“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?”
― George Carlin
Barbara
I am so thankful to have a sane family. All agreed to cancel dinner festivities. There might be small outdoor events, like a walk in the woods. For those who seem not to understand how thankful they should be that they have a choice to be safer, think of essential workers who don’t have the same choice, and whose safety depends on others making safer choices.
Pick some random week or holiday weekend after the vaccine has started to percolate into higher risk communities — six months, 12 months from now — and plan your off-season celebration of every holiday you have missed in the interim. It will be grander knowing your deferred wishes kept others safe and that this long twilight is finally coming to an end.
Kent
@Steeplejack (phone): Oh, I agree. The kid moved out of the house 2 days ago and I’m not sure I can tell her she can’t come home again until the pandemic is over. My wife wouldn’t stand for that anyway and I expect she’ll be popping in and out to do laundry and such. She’s been living here since she graduated college in May. There also seems little point in excluding her roommate and letting her come home. They are all supposed to be covid tested before employment but apparently that isn’t happening due to the current lack of testing capacity.
We aren’t doing anything wider for the obvious reasons. It’s really a question of whether the daughter who moved out this week to a house an hour away gets to come home until the pandemic is over.
Dan B
@BC in Illinois: It’s a relief to me that your families will be delaying your Thanksgiving.
How many heartbreaking stories will we be reading at Christmas? How many of us will be memorializing loved ones Thanksgiving 2021?
Ohio Mom
Another Scott:
This story about your brother makes me smile. Means a lot to me as the mother of someone on the spectrum when I hear our brethren spoken of with such affection.
Kent
Here in OR and WA the rules are that masks are required in all indoor public spaces and outdoors in public if you cannot socially distance.
Which seems completely reasonable. I put on a mask every time I go shopping, but not when I walk the dog in our suburban neighborhood. That seems to be the pattern most people follow.
mrmoshpotato
@Steeplejack (phone): I don’t know what’s “standard.”
I personally don’t leave my apartment without wearing a mask, and that includes walking down a half-flight of stairs to check my mail.
Nicole
@Steeplejack (phone): I think the science doesn’t indicate a high risk of transmission outside as long as you are not stationary, but it’s a good gesture to demonstrate caring for other people to wear them outside whenever possible.
For outdoor sporting events I absolutely would see the need to require them; you’re sitting with the same group of people for an extended period of time. Of course, I also wouldn’t attend an outdoor sporting event for that reason, masked or no.
HalfAssedHomesteader
Let’s not overlook the possibility that a goodly number of folks will reach the end of their solitary Thanksgiving and privately think, “That was… awesome!”
Omnes Omnibus
@Nicole: I don’t know that jogging alone should be considered an outdoor sporting event for which masks should be required.
LuciaMia
My local classical station (WQXR) has its streaming Holiday Channel up. So here I am listening to Christmas music already. Are people around you putting up christmas decorations yet? I guess its a comfort thing.
Glidwrith
@Kent: Um, no you are less safe if you let a stranger, health status and safety precautions unknown, into your home. Is the roomie seeing someone? How about relatives visited? Whom is roomie hanging out with? Not. Safe. At. All.
Nicole
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree, and I don’t get irritated when I see runners without masks (I run too, and will pull mine down when I’m alone), but as I’m in a city, I still wear one when I go out running so I can put it on as soon as I’m back on paved sidewalks or if the park is crowded. I know I’m not likely to transmit or pick up anything by passing someone at jogging pace, but I like to be polite.
oatler.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ednc/pr/group-ties-white-supremacy-including-one-current-and-two-former-marines-charged-0
germy
‘Tofu Is Gross,’ Says Mom While Fisting a Turkey’s Ripped-out Asshole
“I just don’t see how you can eat that stuff.”
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: Wait…you have an audience when you jog? Do they get charged for the privilege? What is your cut of the sales? So many open questions here… :P
Elizabelle
@LuciaMia: I was listening to holiday music in the run-up to the election. Had it on in the car while driving around for contactless lit drops.
It was comforting. Because by Christmas, this would all be over (WRT the election).
But: Trump. So no. But he is a fucking loser, and a sore one too.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: That of course was my point. Unlike Baud, I do not have an* horde of groupies who would pay for such a thing.
*Take that, Steve in the WTF.
Chetan Murthy
@Kent:
don’t have Thanksgiving, then. Seriously. Your daughter is now part of another household unit. And the rule has to be enforced, or people will die, be maimed. Just don’t celebrate the holiday. It’s going to be a matter of life or death for many people, real soon. Don’t be one of that number.
Elizabelle
@HalfAssedHomesteader:
Yes! Missing all the horrible family drama, and people who have had their patterns of behavior set since puberty.
Like the first year one participated in “friendsgiving.” So much calmer.
For me, traveling somewhere that does not celebrate Thanksgiving is ideal. Would be Toronto or Montreal this year, but for us being excluded because we are a nation of plague rats.
Zelma
My RWNJ step-daughter is having family over. Six people in total. She thinks this is all overblown. Two of the attendees are doctors who are at the hospital regularly. Fortunately I live 400 miles from them so our contact is small. I’m invited to my cousin’s but I’m not sure I am going. I usually go to my son’s but we decided it is not a good idea. He has been spending time at the Capitol setting up his boss’s office and while he is masked, there are too many unmasked Republicans around. He tries to avoid them at all times
Step-daughter just texted me that masks are “virtue signaling.” Oh well.
Nicole
@Yutsano:
I don’t but I should, because I have a REALLY good running soundtrack, darn it.
dmsilev
I feel this. I miss seeing my parents, my brother and his family. Etc. But, there’s no way on Earth that I’m going to fly cross-country to see them in person right now. Or at Christmas for that matter. I have a ticket to go visit in February, but I’m fully expecting that I’ll have to change that as well; we’ll make that call in January.
Sebastian
@Steeplejack (phone):
I myself am sloppy as well but have made it a habit. Several reasons for it:
– builds the habit and it becomes second nature.
– avoids surprises.
– one can still spread aerosols and droplets. Breeze or draft might help but you never know. Especially when you are jogging you might be shedding a ton of viral particles due to hard breathing.
– it chills the other person out and frees them from having to make an instant mental risk calculation.
Bruce K
Heck, I’ve been missing Thanksgiving since work took me to Greece, which was … lessee … twelve years ago. Irony of ironies, my family’s all here now, but they’re in the islands, I’m in Athens, and there’s a lockdown and regional travel ban in effect, so this will be my twelfth year running missing Thanksgiving.
I’m just hoping that maybe, maybe Europe will generally get a better handle on things before Christmas and New Year’s, because I haven’t seen the most important person in my life since last New Year’s, and the separation is starting to drive me nuts…
GenXFiles
I keep hearing “Covid bubble” and I’m wondering what the hell that is. How do you know what kind of precautions others are taking? Well, aside from our best friend posting pictures of herself in the gym without a mask and another friend posting pictures of his large Halloween gathering, only one of whom was wearing a mask on the preeminent mask wearing day of the year – a ski mask with holes cut out for his mouth and nose. The only Covid bubble is whoever lives under your roof and only because you’re fucked anyway in that case.
This is every man for himself now.
Elizabelle
@raven: The Richmond Times Disgrace reports that the VA Tech and Pitt players do not have to mask up.
Which is it? (I think they should mask up, personally.)
Barbara
@Zelma: I somehow made it onto Republican party email lists, which frequently send out messages seeking my “opinion” on matters. This morning, it was “do I agree that the latest COVID scaremongering will turn out to be just as overblown as it was earlier”? This is how they think.
West of the Rockies
@Elizabelle:
Take good cheer in the knowledge that Trump is now in existential misery. He has been made to look ridiculous. He is not what he once saw himself to be: an athletic, desirable man about town. He is instead a bedraggled 74, an obese, homely LUH-ooooser. He will end his days in constant legal jeopardy and diminished brain function. Happy Holidays, Donny!
LuciaMia
Jesus, talk about a leading question!
scav
@Zelma: Well, then, not wearing masks is thus Vice in Action. Thank her for clearing that up for everyone.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: …
This better not turn into the Oxford comma debate of the 21st century.
@Nicole: Is this like Starlord where you’re a much better fighter with your earbuds in? Except in this case jogging.
mrmoshpotato
WANSB – Whiny-Ass Nazi Shitstain Babies
You lost. Get over it. Fuck your Nazi shitstain feelings.
Ken
Text back “so are wills”.
Ken
@mrmoshpotato: Hope they get a move on, January 5 isn’t that far off.
Zelma
@Ken:
Well, I already took her out of mine. Not completely, just mostly.
Ken
There is no debate about the Oxford comma. As can be clearly seen in…
[12,847 lines omitted]
…which settles the matter as far as I am concerned.
(I’ve recently joined the Project Gutenberg Distributed Proofreaders. There are an awful lot of tracts and books that basically follow the above pattern. I’ve also been struck by how much religious debates from the 17th century, conducted by exchange of letters, remind me of USENET in the 1980s right down to the quoting patterns.)
Geminid
A couple of customers were contemplating a Thanksgiving visit from their daughter, son in law, and grandson, who live three hours away in Baltimore. I learned yesterday that the visit was cancelled, and I was relieved. There was the question of infection, but also this couple just did not need the stress of a visit, even by loved ones. His Parkinsons is progressing, and she is recovering from a broken hip. This Thanksgiving will be special just because they may not share many more.
When the pandemic began, it was not hard to forsee that besides sickness and death it would bring economic hardship for many, and stressful social isolation for some. One silver lining, I thought, was that people would have to just slow down, and get away “from the every day running around.” Our world will open up again, and when it does my hope is that those who survive will better appreciate just living
Sloane Ranger
OT but Just being reported on CNN that the Michigan GOP and RNC are requesting that certification of the election results for Wayne County (aka Detroit) be delayed for 2 weeks to allow for an audit of the votes. Apparently, the people who legally certify are due to meet Monday and comprise 2 Dems and 2 Thugs. CNN lawyers now paging through law books to see what happens if the Thugs refuse to certify.
AWOL
@Sloane Ranger: At least Carl Bernstein called it for what it is: grifting and racism on behalf of a Mad King.
Tazj
We usually celebrate Thanksgiving with my brother and sister-in-law who have four children and a gathering of about 20 people or so for the holiday. Of course, that went by the wayside a long time ago but we had planed to have Thanksgiving with my two sisters.
The assisted care facility where my one sister worked had locked down very early this year and avoided any COVID cases. However, they now have cases among both residents and staff and the hospital where my husband works has seen their caseload increase. So now it will just be our immediate family, and I hope that restrictions slow the spread again in my area.
Raven
@Elizabelle:
Face coverings have been a part of college football sidelines this fall … sort of … but to this point they have not been present on the field during play. After a few days of miscommunication and confusion, it would appear that teams playing in the state of Pennsylvania will not have to take an additional step by wearing face coverings while on the field.
The clarity came Friday afternoon after Pitt received word from the governor’s office that it and Virginia Tech would not have to force players to wear face coverings during Saturday’s game.
laura
Just spouse and me for Thanksgiving- we’ll deliver a dinner box to a friend who hasn’t left his apartment except midnight laundry or a walk since March.
Roadie brother the elder usually has a really big Thanksgiving shindig – family, friends and orphans. This year they are hosting a neighbor’s family including a recently transplanted 93 yo granny. I am sad and freaked all the way out. One of his sons has already had covid, recovered and currently donating plasma. The other is happy to while away the hours computer gaming and so a fairly tight bubble. Brother had testicular cancer in the late 80’s and had much of his abdominal lymph glands removed. He had a non cancerous kidney tumor removed two years ago when dad died. Brother the younger and I were terrified we’d lose him – and even though were olds he’s still the boss of us kids and we adore him. If he gets covid, I fear for his life.
He doesn’t know it but were going to have a heart to heart chat today. There will be begging…
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack (phone): Here in CA, we’re supposed to be masked any time you’re not in your home.
T-day will be me, the wife and her daughter.
JMG
@Sloane Ranger: As I understand it, the governor can replace board members who refuse to certify unilaterally. This could be wrong, but it is from a reporter in Michigan.
Catherine D.
My mother got a gizmo that’s akin to a reading glasses chain, so she can drop her mask when she’s outside on her own, but put it on quickly without having to carry it in her hand.
Redshift
@Elizabelle: I saw that article, and I thought it said the state says they have to but the colleges are claiming they don’t. Because reasons, I guess, I didn’t read the whole thing.
Redshift
@mrmoshpotato:
Please proceed, wingnuts.
trollhattan
I assume the two weeks following Thanksgiving will feature a significant increase in new infections mimicking the two weeks following Halloween. We’re off the charts and yet, will see even more. Last summer’s peak here is prosaic by comparison to the case rate today. Ugh.
And, oh, “Newsom’s going to arrest me” and “As sheriff I will not be enforcing Newsom’s curfew” are the new “Help, liberals are coming for my guns.”
trollhattan
@Redshift:
Yeah, looking for a downside here. Can they perhaps self-immolate prior to the senate runoff election?
Kent
@Redshift: And while you are at it, take out the one in Florida too!
JMG
The great college football blogger Spencer Hall just posted this on Twitter. “Why would you endanger anyone else’s health when you can stay home and eat a whole turkey by yourself?” Sort of our sentiments, although we’re two. Make the turkey, eat the turkey, eat leftovers, then carve up what’s left. Turkey slices can be put in freezer bags. Carcass makes turkey soup. FWIW, the other night we had lamb chops that had been in our freezer since May. They were still delicious.
Barbara
@Zelma: A stepdaughter is probably too close to ghost, but I shut out relatives like this even when I was from time to time looking at FB. They thought COVID was a big laugh, and said things like this (and actually much worse) all the time.
“I think it’s a virtue to protect other people from disease but YMMV.”
LuciaMia
As the saying goes, “You may ask…”
Yarrow
I have a concern for after Thanksgiving. My dad lives in a retirement community by himself. His place just opened the dining room again a few weeks ago after closing it in March. It’s been a massive relief for many residents who have had to eat every meal by themselves in their own place. Loneliness is a big issue at the best of times for seniors and with the pandemic it has become a real heath risk on its own.
The dining room option is heavily restricted. Only two per table, very widely spaced. Limited time allowed to eat. Masks other than actively eating or drinking. Etc. My dad has been eating with one other friend. This friend is also careful, like my dad is. But for Thanksgiving apparently he’s going to be with his family. My dad says he has a fairly large family and their plans keep changing. Some people are coming in from another state, from what I last heard.
After Thanksgiving I expect my dad will go back to eating with his friend and that’s what concerns me. I am so torn because it has been such a boost for my dad to “get of jail” (his words) and get to see people and eat with someone. It has done wonders for his mood. But if this friend has a large family Thanksgiving with people coming in from another state, I have no idea how safe my dad will be when dining with him again. It scares me to no end.
I can’t tell my dad he can’t eat with his friend, but I have expressed my concerns about the situation. Last night I asked him to ask his friend if his family was going to have their meal outdoors. It’s supposed to be gorgeous here on Thanksgiving so that will be a real option. I really hope their family is safe and is limiting it to just one family but I have no control over that and I don’t know them at all so can’t gauge how safe they might be in general.
This whole thing just sucks.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Yes, I keep coming by to see if there’s any news. This is getting me down.
lee
At my house my youngest daughter and I have been at home since March 23rd. I’m 100% work from home and she is remote learning for college.
I go out for groceries and the occasional take out.
My wife has to go into work (veterinarian). They have been doing drop off (client stays in the car and someone brings pet in) since April.
My oldest is out of college and out of work (got laid off because of pandemic). She does not quarantine at all. She is planning on coming up for Thanksgiving.
We are going to have my dad over Sunday to spend the day with him. If my oldest actually does come up we won’t have him over for Thanksgiving.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Ken:
Something about that initial text absolutely infuriated me. But Ken’s response is pitch perfect. Although it won’t penetrate the RWNJ mental shield people like that have built around themselves.
I’m so glad I’m married to another only child, all our parents are dead and we didn’t procreate. Our friends are our family and since we can choose them, we chose wisely. No get-together this weekend with 6 others and no get-together on Tday with another couple. They have two adult kids coming in, one’s in law school back in DC (he’s the low-key wingnut in their family so I don’t trust his behavior) and we’re not that needy to be with people.
Redshift
My local immediate family were contemplating having dinner or dessert outdoors together if it was warm enough, or having a self-serve dinner indoors, but decided a couple of weeks ago we had to go to each picking up our serving and taking it home. We wouldn’t have out of state relatives join us in any of those plans.
Then my sister in Louisiana died and my brother and I both had to travel there. So now we’re not even going to go into the parents’ house to pick up food, just have them put it in the car. I got a covid test on Thursday, and should get the results on Tuesday. If it’s positive, I won’t even be in the car there.
The worst is my niece, who will be spending Thanksgiving with no family at all two weeks after her mother died. She should at least get to spend it with her roommate’s family, who she was in contact with when they came to LA to adopt their dogs.
So that’s how it’s going here.
LuciaMia
Wasnt that an episode of “Friends”?
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
I’ve told people that there are sadder things than Thanksgiving for one or two, A Christmas funeral makes the grade. Sadder yet would be a Christmas funeral on Zoom.
Feel free to spread this idea, and not Covid.
Redshift
@Yarrow: It really does suck. Maybe you could try to convince him to hold out for a two week quarantine after Thanksgiving and then go back to eating with his friend? (Or shorter if they’re doing testing.)
JMG
My deepest sympathies for those of you here in near-impossible family dilemmas or have totally isolated family members. My daughter is alone in France, but as she says, “here’s it’s just another Thursday, so it’s not so bad.”
FlyingToaster
We’ve been quarantining since March. We have our normal bubble (best friends & son) who we go over about once a month.
My SIL has her family quarantining as well. School’s been remote the past week as well. So we’ll do our usual Thanksgiving at her place minus the outta town adult boys.
Christmas she’s planning on having her older sons there, so we probably won’t go. One of them is relocating back East from Nevada, and I don’t imagine he’ll be through quarantine yet (and the problem is that he’s moving to RI which though close by, is in worse shape than the rest of New England).
Threading the needle, it feels like.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: will this cheer you up?
Chetan Murthy
@Kent:
We all have had to make sacrifices, in order to keep our loved ones safe. I adhere to probably a stricter safety protocol than most people commenting here: I’ve been in a grocery store once in May, twice in recent weeks in a bagel store to pickup a phone order, and aside from that, no foreign buildings since March. I always mask up, and always wash everything I can when taking grocery deliveries or pickups. Always. My mom lives with my sister and her BF across the way, about a mile up the hill. I’ve delivered groceries weekly since this all started. I’ve been six feet away from my mom on the sidewalk, when my delivery coincided with their taking some cooked food to my other sister and the grandkids. And I’ve never once hugged my mom. My sister+her-BF have had to adjust the deliveries to times when the smallest grandkids aren’t awake, b/c they can’t control themselves, they want to hug their grandmother. Even with all my care and strict measures, my mom, my sister, her BF, and I assume … ASSUME … that I might be infected. And we act accordingly. We only have one Mom, and for fucking sure, I want her to be able to visit my house to complain about my not having a working dishwasher for years to come.
It’s all heart-rending. All. Heart-rending. But this is about life or death. I don’t want to be brutal, but: “didn’t she think this thru before separating her household from yours? I mean, it’s a pandemic, for God’s sake!” If she wants to rejoin your household, there’s a way to do that: quarantine for 14 days with you bringing her food to the door, and then she can move back in. But jesus, she shouldn’t be bringing laundry home!
Just cancel Thanksgiving. The life you save might be your wife’s: think of it that way.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Steeplejack (phone):
These comments are silly. Masking outside is only necessary when you can’t maintain 6 ft or more with other people
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Steeplejack (phone): I wear a mask when walking outside my own yard, because you never know when you’re going to encounter a neighbor. Frequently an unmasked neighbor. And have no escape path because for instance there are people across the street as well.
A couple times I’ve walked the dog late at night and skipped the mask. Inevitably there was a situation where somebody unmasked approached me from the other direction, and I had no recourse but to turn my back, go way up on somebody’s lawn and do my best not to breathe their air till they passed.
It wasn’t worth the anxiety. I go masked now.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
Please proceed, morons
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Catherine D.: My wife as made some of those, she’s given me two of them. Very useful.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Here’s the thing about people who are still unmasked now, as bad as things are. They are not a random sample of the general population. They are people who go to unsafe gatherings elsewhere, who have friends and family who expose themselves without masks. Their chance of being a carrier is considerably higher than that of a random person who exercises some precautions, regardless of how minimal.
I don’t want to be around those high-risk people. I don’t want to share air with them.
Ohio Mom
Yarrow:
Have you checked with the retirement home management — maybe they have an isolation policy for people going out for Thanksgiving (or other occasions). That would solve this problem for you.
Sounds like they’ve been cautious up so far. They have to be terrified of the PR disaster an outbreak would be.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
My sister is having a safe Thanksgiving, with just her daughter/son-in-law/grandson and son/daughter-in-law. Her son & daughter-in-law work at home, and her daughter is a radiologist with an obstetrics practice and gets tested regularly. This is her regular “bubble” and she feels safe with it. Fine, so far. BUT. They are having Thanksgiving on Friday. Why? Because both couples are going to be celebrating with the other side of the family on Thursday! And the other side of both families are Trumpers, who don’t take any of this seriously! I am at my wit’s end with her. She is in good health at the moment, but she’s 68, has a rare autoimmune disease that killed one of our sisters, and her husband is 70 and is undergoing radiation treatment. I don’t even know what the kids are thinking, especially the daughter who is a healthcare worker.
Just had to vent.
Chetan Murthy
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Yesterday my mom and sis visited. They drive up in a parking spot; I sit in a camp chair next to the car. Typically I lower my mask, but it’s around my chin, so when neighbor comes past (I sit facing the rear of the car, so we can watch both directions) I can pull it up. Most neighbors either wear the mask, or have it around the chin so they can pull it up. And everybody stays >6ft apart.
Yeah: I always wear the mask around my chin at least, so I can pull it up. And just like you, I once got caught (hadn’t brought the mask, b/c I was just moving the car for street-cleaning) and somebody came up maskless. I stepped out into the street to let ’em pass.
Gravenstone
@debbie: Yeah, the numbers greeting the newly inaugurated Biden administration are going to be abominable. And of course the media will be primed to blame them for not fixing things within minutes of taking power.
germy
Priorities.
cain
@Kent:
Yep, although many also wear masks – and at times I bring one with me when it’s like ‘peak walking’. While running, you are putting out a lot of possible COVIDy thing in the air. So I try to be reasonable.
PsiFighter37
@Steeplejack (phone): I wear a mask whenever I step outside my apartment, with the sole exception of when I go for a run. Running on bike lanes and streets Keeps me plenty socially distanced from other folks who may not be wearing masks (although in Manhattan, this is not really a problem).
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato:
I dunno… that works for me!
Another Scott
While things are bleak in many respects, there’s good news as well, as driftglass reminds us.
Cheers,
Scott.
dmsilev
@germy: The G20 really should have just invited Joe Biden to come instead.
Yarrow
@Redshift: I will mention it to him. My dad can get a bit overwhelmed if I sound too worried or give him too much information at once. I have to walk that line carefully.
I forgot to mention that his friend’s family are apparently all getting tested before getting together. I know that’s not perfect but it’s better than nothing. If someone is asymptomatic it might catch that before they get together. OTOH, it might give them a false sense of security. Sigh.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Goku (Amerikan Baka):
This was in reply to the Georgia Trump supporters threatening to destroy the GA GOP if Trump doesn’t win Georgia. Don’t know why the tag didn’t appear
Kent
My suburb is not that dense. People out walking the dog just cross the street or walk out onto the street when passing each other. Feels fine and safe to me. I never come within 15 ft of anyone else while outdoors and then only in passing. If I were in a more dense city it would be different.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@JMG:
Is this in the Michigan Constitution as a power the governor explicitly has?
Kent
That would actually be illegal. Only one president at a time. It’s what tripped up Mike Flynn, among other things.
cain
She seems to enjoy trolling you. But she hasn’t gotten it I presume. Let’s hope she doesn’t or no one she knows doesn’t even if it would be an abject lesson that you COVID is not to be fucked with.
Goku (Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
Yeah, a city like NYC would be a different story. Most of the time shoulder to shoulder there the few times I’ve visited
cain
@Sloane Ranger:
They are wasting their times – there won’t be a hanging chad bullshit last in 2000. There is no point in doing anything – Detroit is a democratic stronghold and the gap is too wide.
They are using delay tactics to do some more lawsuits or something – but in the end – it’s done. Also didn’t they already certify? The votes were done.
They must be seriously worried that Trump supporters are going to tear the Republican party apart. I think that’s the real problem for these bozos. They should look at this shit as virus too.
Kristine
@Steeplejack (phone): I’m in NE Illinois. The whole state just reentered Tier 3.
That said, I carry a mask with me just in case, but I don’t wear one when I walk. I live near wilderness areas and a state park and seldom run into anyone except on weekends. If I spot someone, I take another route. It would be a different story if I walked in the city or a more crowded suburban area.
Yarrow
@Ohio Mom: The retirement community has been very good so far. They have a “Covid unit” where anyone goes who tests positive. They had state officials tour it and apparently it has been a model for other places.
They are okay about communicating with family. There was something I became aware of at the community last week and I sent an email last Sunday and asked someone to follow up with me by email or phone. I’ve heard nothing. I need to follow up with them but it’s just one more thing.
I haven’t heard of any restrictions after people get together with family over Thanksgiving. I don’t think they will do that but I will inquire when I call to chase down someone about the other thing. Maybe it will plant an idea for them.
This whole thing is so awful. I have heard from quite a few seniors in these communities that they feel like they’re in jail and they don’t want to live out the short amount of life they have left like this. It’s so demoralizing for them. I hate that our country is so unsafe that it essentially imprisons these folks.
Dan B
@Yarrow: That’s a tough spot emotionally. The choices are being overly cautious and deeply depressed or risking the ultimate heartbreak and enjoying the joys of connection.
The one consideration is how long might it be until his facility gets the vaccine? It could be as early as February.
Another question are Zoom or FaceTime possibilities?
JMG
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): It wouldn’t be in the state constitution. It’d be part of election law. Some reporter on twitter said it was and I repeated that statement. Reporters get it wrong sometimes, but they’re more often right.
Barbara
@cain: They certified at the county level. Next step is certification at the state level. From what I have read, there have been incidences at the county level where the losing party has refused to certify, and the AG brought a lawsuit forcing them to abide by the law. That could likely happen at the state level as well.
cain
@Kent:
I’m passing people a lot, I usually move to the bicycle lane on the street to avoid people. We like our walks here – and of course Oregon/Washington people are huge pet lovers – everyone has pets! :D
Yarrow
@Dan B: Well, the issue is that I can’t control what my dad’s dining companion does. I can’t even control what my dad does but I can help him think through the risks. Right now I have confidence that his friend is being quite safe, but over the holiday I don’t know. It’s just frustrating.
I’m working on my dad to talk to his friend about it so maybe at least he can get the straight story about what actually happened at Thanksgiving. Then he/we can make the best decision about what my dad should do re: dining with him in the future.
I told my dad I think he’ll be one of the first to get the vaccine but so far we haven’t heard anything along those lines. I don’t think anyone knows yet since the vaccine hasn’t been fully cleared for use. I would think such communities would be near the top of the list.
J R in WV
I do go out to shop every couple of weeks. We have been to doctor and dental appointments. But we DO wear masks when out of the house. We visit with neighbors at a distance, outdoors. We do pet the dogs, and I nap with a dog some afternoons. In fact, I feel a nap coming on, and I’ll bet that Coo is already in bed.
When I watch a football game on TV, and there are people in the stands, I think, “Imbeciles!”
Fortunately almost everyone is masked at the stores where I shop.
ThresherK
@LuciaMia: I will have to check out ‘QXR’s holiday selection. Nice tip!
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: LOL. Took longer than I thought to get going but all the traitor tots are going down. Tick tock, motherfuckers.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Now that (hurrah!) the riding mower is once again functional I have no reservations at all about being alone on the property and maskless when mowing. Nearest other human, if any, is over a hundred feet away.
Same for mowing close to the street. If cars should pass, they all have windows rolled up and A/C blasting.
cain
But they can’t go back and demand they recertify a county again can they having already passed certification? Otherwise, the state can go on delaying by forcing the county to keep certifying because they arent satisfied.
Yeah, I think the AG needs to bring a lawsuit in and just tell them to certify.
It’s amazing the power this man has over the party. I think there is a lot of theater going on within the GOP party as to not to be seen to go against the cult leader. But they must know that having this man in charge will fuck them up – they will be replaced by even crazier people.
Ohio Mom
Yarrow: My MIL lives not far from us in an independent living building and I know exactly what you mean about how demoralizing it is for the people trapped in those retirement homes.
She’s learned how to Zoom and that has helped some but I do think the isolation and boredom is taking a toll on her cognitive functioning.
Ruckus
@Dan B:
You have had the experience of having the possibility that anyone around you can, well kill you. Not necessarily maliciously but still just by them being themselves they can kill you. Most people alive today have never really had that. I was born, as were many here, at a time when many diseases had no vaccine. Polio. Measles, and some of the conditions that can come with it, like I had, encephalitis. And on and on. But I was young and didn’t have any idea what all of it was about, just that some of it was serious. At my 50th HS reunion some of us talked about everyone coming down with all these diseases, that people no longer have to suffer through. So many people don’t have the experience of the risk, like you do, like many of us older farts have to a lessor degree. I have personally known 4 people with polio. Two of them my age and haven’t seen one of them for almost 50 yrs and one I see regularly. I think that makes it harder for a lot of people to understand how easy it is to spread this type of disease and how easy it is to be very sensitive to it. And of course we have a markedly dumb dipshit supposedly in charge, who can’t see past the fun house mirror in his mind.
I’m not trying in any way to say that you are lucky that you’ve had this experience, just that you have. The possibility that any one of your friends can kill you, just by their presence, knowingly or not. Covid is that way, with the exception that it can be anyone, stranger on the street, in a store, someone at work, or someone in their, or your own home, a partner in your life. And that a carrier can infect, unknowingly many other people, rather than a death sentence to a few. I don’t envy that knowledge and I’m sorry that you’ve had that experience. I am also sorry that so many places have done such a shitty job of doing any of the rather simple things that slowing this down, stopping it almost completely take. Are we too good to have to sacrifice not really all that much to control this? Maybe my perspective is somewhat warped from many other folks realities, but this doesn’t seem to be that difficult, given the circumstances and the failure to change a few small habits can cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
danielx
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not news, as any of the jackaltariat could testify.
One sister-in-law coming in for the week, who has been isolating for a month in preparation and who has been tested repeatedly during the period. As safe as safe can be, which is good because at this point she’s the only one of my in-laws of whom I’m really fond. Be good to spend time with someone outside the household bubble. Of course, she is bringing her two indoor cats to enjoy spending quality time (?!??) with our three, so that will no doubt be a real treat.
I sense a great disturbance in the feline force…
Yarrow
@Ohio Mom: Two of my dad’s doctors have brought it up with us. The isolation and loneliness, I mean. My dad is doing better than most but it’s so, so hard. It is so much better now that they can go to the dining room. I really don’t want that to be curtailed but I am certain that not everyone will be safe over Thanksgiving because someone will have a dumb family or at least family member who isn’t safe and there you go. Ugh.
JoyceH
I guess I’m glad I’m an introvert. I plan on spending both holidays alone and don’t have a problem with it. And might have even without a pandemic. Prior to the last couple years, my holidays were always small – would go up to my sister’s for Thanksgiving and she’d come down here for Christmas. More often than not, an old college friend would join us for Christmas.
Jane died in early December of last year. (With all these ICU horror stories, it now seems almost a blessing that she unexpectedly died peacefully in her sleep.) Old college friend came down for Christmas so I wouldn’t be alone that year, and I was thankful for that, but this year we’ve both decided to shelter in place.
At the dawn of 2020, I had all these resolutions about getting out more and seeing more people and making local friends, since Jane’s absence left a pretty big hole. (We lived about 90 miles apart, but texted back and forth all day every day.) Well, that’s obviously been delayed for the duration. The last time I had a sustained conversation with someone in person was — back in July, when I was packing out Jane’s house and her boss/best friend came over to visit with me while the movers were there. We sat outside and talked a while and that was pretty much it.
I have long Skype or phone conversations with people three or four times a week, and that seems to be enough to suit me. My local grocery store has just instituted curbside pickup and I’m thrilled to death about that.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes, I saw that, and it was like Christmas in November!
Lyrebird
@Dan B: There are so many great wits and great writers who comment here. You worded your post so beautifully, even about sadness and an awful situation.
NotMax
@Catherine D.
Bought a pack of these doohickeys, to which both side elastics of the mask are attached. Elastics then can go across or underneath the ears rather than around them, with the strap sitting on the back of the head. Makes it a snap to drop the mask and have it hang below the chin when it is suitable to do so.
Dan B
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): Good to hear the mood of a frontline healthcare worker. You are in the slot canyon trying to rescue people while thunderheads loom over the hills. Meanwhile there are families at the trailhead debating if the clouds are far enough away.
Many of feel your fear. Some of us have lived with overwhelming dread and the unfathomable grief that follows.
Why does our emotional neediness cloud the necessity of thinking about the potential of breaking our healthcare system?
Kent
The mini-Trumps are taking their cues from their Fuhrer. Here in Washington this is happening. They are starting to eat their own.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/loren-culp-refusing-to-concede-washington-gubernatorial-race-turns-on-top-republicans/
It gets better…..
Josie
@JoyceH:
Curbside pick-up is the best. I just did my first one this week and I may never go in a grocery store again.
Ruckus
@Zelma:
I have virtue? Who would have ever guessed, thought, surmised, laughed……
danielx
@Elizabelle:
A-mennn, sister! Family on my side is generally drama free, but when spousal unit and her three sisters are in the same place for too long (not this year), it invariably ends in tears for somebody. They all know each other’s weak points and sore points too well, and it’s always “remember when I was 14 and you did that to me?”.
Delivered through clenched teeth and with a stiffened finger thrust to the breastbone, figuratively speaking – usually.
Kent
Shit is getting serious. Looking the college football schedule today, there are SIX games involving top-25 teams that are postponed or canceled today due to Covid. That’s like 25%.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/scoreboard
Ken
@Kent: Culp, like Trump, is going to find out that it really doesn’t matter whether he concedes or not, except in regard to his reputation.
Zzyzx
I wear a mask while inside stores but on my walks/runs I usually see 1-2 people a mile tops and I can usually move away from them so I don’t get close.
The equation for infection is proximity and time. The odds of getting infected by someone who is 12 feet away from you, outdoors, for 3-4 seconds is so minimal and it’s next to impossible to run with a mask on (and as a diabetic who controls it via exercise, I can’t just blow it off), so I don’t feel bad about it.
It’s 30/70 masks/none on walking people.
Catherine D.
@JoyceH:
I get that! I’m grateful (if that’s the right word) that my father died in September 2019 while we could enter the ICU.
NotMax
Thinking of the scores of families who will be thankful to not have to deal with their own Uncle Gabriels.
;)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
anybody having/hearing of problems with Safari today? I can’t access about half the pages I’m trying to get to, including twitter (I don’t use the app, I just look at pages through twitter)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Yarrow: I live in an over-55 condo bldg with an associated assisted living/memory care/skilled nursing bldg. This week, management said that as a congregant living facility, they’d been “required” (by whom, I don’t know) to register for vaccine distribution with either CVS or WalGreen. They asked for enough doses for our bldg too. What that will come down to, I don’t know.
I’m in Illinois, in case this is some sort of state program.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
If all they are doing is running around from place to place for at best a quick hello/goodbye, that really isn’t life. It’s like twitter replacing books or discussions, 280 characters often is just not enough, neither is a gathering that does really nothing for actual family other than being there in person.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m having issues with Chrome. IIUC it and Safari are similar, being based on Webkit.
Pages freeze, comments won’t post, etc. FF seems normal.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Zzyzx: another introvert report: On my walks on a paved path by a river I carry, but don’t wear, a mask, I move away from people coming in the opposite direction, and not everyone does– they like to take their half out of the middle, as my old man used to say about drivers. One thing I often see is people walking and talking, not shoulder to shoulder but closer than I would want to be. Occasionally they pull masks up while they pass me, walking and more than eight feet away, then pull them down and start yakking again
ETA: and I assume it goes without saying: Don’t get me started on those young people!
actually, I yesterday I saw two younger people masked while solo biking
Kent
The only reputation Culp has is as a yahoo gun rights extremist cop from a small town in eastern WA. He doesn’t have a reputation to destroy. Prior to the election the only thing he was known for was going on Fox and screaming about how he wasn’t going to enforce Washington’s new red flag gun law.
There was a time when competent reasonably centrist business-type Republicans could win state-wide in WA. Candidates like a Romney or the MD and MA governors. Culp was not that person. The GOP here screwed itself by not consolidating around a single establishment candidate and our jungle primaries don’t help matters for them.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I live in an over 55 complex as well, in CA, and haven’t heard anything like this. And the office is very much into communications about life in the community. There is a federal concept to the over 55 complex idea, but states do have input into aspects. It would be interesting to know whose idea that was.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus:
Heh! Some of us have met you.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: thanks, I can access BJ, but not the NYT, WaPo or Vanguard.
CaseyL
@Kent: I wondered what was going on with that yoyo. Just what our fair state needs, a Trump Mini-Me.
Washington State Republicans used to be reasonable, moderate folks. I worked for a while with a NW Innocence Project legislation liaison, who said that when it came to criminal justice issues, sometimes she preferred Republicans to Democrats because they were better about keeping their word.
After Trump won in 2016, though, the Washington State GOP very quickly radicalized to mirror the national party. I watched it happen in real time and was gobsmacked.
Zelma
@Barbara:
It’s hard to ghost someone when you know she has serious mental issues as well as health issues. And whom you have loved dearly for nearly fifty years. She’s steeped in the right-wing, crazy Christian milieu. You know what’s so tragic about such people? They are so unhappy and fearful. There is no joy in their lives. I do keep contact to the minimum, but sometimes I just feel I have to check in on her. It rarely ends well.
Raven
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I got a VA newsletter outlining their plan for workers and at risk people.
Dan B
@Yarrow: I ask about the wait for the vaccine because, frankly, I have horrible unresolved memories of friends dying of AIDS after the drug cocktail was available. They were too sick to qualify for the first doses. I don’t want anyone to experience that feeling. At the time there was no time-line for an effective treatment. Now there is and it appears to be very soon. This year has been the year of waiting for good news.
I’m as sad for you as for your dad. You deserve a big virtual hug too for caring for him.
NotMax
@Zelma
Avoiding situations conducive to infection is intelligence signaling.
Raven
@Zelma: Are you talking about BJ?
”They are so unhappy and fearful. There is no joy in their lives.”
Kropacetic
Never too early. By 2024, the whole pandemic, beginning to end, will have been Biden’s fault.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Barbara:
I keep thinking how we fetishize “the greatest generation”, my parents used to talk– not much but occasionally– about victory gardens and ration coupons, scrap metal drives, etc, when they were kids. “If you ride alone you ride with Hitler”.
Half the country is having an emotional meltdown because people want them to wear a cloth mask in WalMart.
Zzyzx
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I also avoid main streets and trails wherever possible (other than one 5 block stretch of the Burke Gilman trail which is one of the less crowded stretches) and start my cardio between 5-6 AM, except for now where it has to be later on running days so I can see.
It helps to have the entire street and both sidewalks to avoid people. My nemeses are those people who are doing socially distanced walking hangouts but their spacing takes up the whole road. Fortunately that’s pretty rare.
cain
@Ken:
I’m glad that there are sane republicans in Washington in offices of power. I wouldn’t trust a Republican in SoS position though. But given that the state is solidly blue there would be dire consequences if she went off the beaten path.
WaterGirl
From Bill Penzey:
Barbara
@Zelma: Yes, when it’s close family it’s better to stay in touch, especially when you live far enough away that it doesn’t really encroach on your own life too much. I had started reconnecting with my cousins after some deaths in the family, but I am happy to keep the contact to funerals and family reunions at this point. I was close to them once upon a time, but not anymore.
Kent
@CaseyL: Yeah. It probably dates me, but in my previous life working for NOAA on fisheries management issues I had to work pretty closely with Slade Gorton’s staff on fisheries and marine mammal protection legislation. They were pretty decent and reasonable and fairly engaged when it came to environmental protection. Those days are long gone. It’s not just Trump. It’s also Fox and the right wing media environment. It has completely changed the incentive structure for GOPers.
germy
Dan B
@Ruckus: Thanks. I don’t have to be told to to take extreme and discouraging precautions. It’s deep in my bones and part of my – acquired – instincts.
There were kids in school in braces or with lifts in one shoe because one leg was shorter. One schoolmate was very muscular because he’d been through excruciating PT to learn how to walk. He lost his legs in Vietnam and was regularly overtaken by bitterness. I so so want people to avoid these nightmares. It feels like crying into the void at times.
Geoduck
@CaseyL: This isn’t the first time that the WA state GOP anointed a loon to run for governor. Longtimers in the state may remember a certain Ellen Craswell..
Redshift
@Yarrow: Yeah, two of my close friends have mothers in assisted living, and it’s definitely taken a toll on them. My parents are still on their own, and Ms. Redshift’s died a year before the pandemic. She says she can’t imagine how bad it would have been for her mother with dementia.
If you feel like the facility is doing a good job with it, then it may be easiest to trust them to keep things safe.
The Moar You Know
@Steeplejack (phone): I always have since this started, but I spent five years of my life wearing a FAR more uncomfortable version of what y’all are wearing, 14 hours a day, and I find them reassuring. I flat-out don’t get the people who complain about them.
If you’ve ever been out walking and gone “oh, smoker was walking here a few minutes ago” or “wow, someone was wearing a lot of perfume”, well, these days you wouldn’t smell it, but that could be COVID, and you could be on your way to being dead. That’s the particle size and how long it hangs in the air.
There go two miscreants
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): This was in reply to the Georgia Trump supporters…
I thought you were just offering encouragement to the rest of us!
//
narya
@Steeplejack (phone): @debbie: @catclub: @Nicole: @Sebastian: I’ve been masking while I run all along–and have even upped the layers. I was using a gaiter, doubled over; now I’m also slipping a piece of paper towel between the layers. I do pull it down if there’s no one in sight at all, which is common, but there are a couple of places where there’s not much room to avoid someone, in either direction. Plus, I’ve decided that it helps encourage others to do so as well. I recognize that it might be extra, and that I could probably be okay without anything, but I’ve also been looking at the maps, and the very minor inconvenience of running w/ a mask seems trivial.
Dan B
@WaterGirl: Great link!
HELP if you have time. I accidentally modified my nym and have two comments in moderation.
Chetan Murthy
@narya:
I remember seeing research that showed that when people wear masks, others around them are more careful about adhering to distancing rules. Your wearing masks reminds other that, yeah, we could all die, they need to do their part. Thank you for doing your part!
Kent
Ellen! I remember her. Basically the Phyllis Schlafly of Washington if I remember correctly. Her main campaign issue was that gays were evil. Which gained her about 40% of the vote against Gary Locke, our first Asian-American state-wide politician.
narya
@Chetan Murthy: I’m so fortunate–still employed; living in an area of the state/city that has relatively low numbers; access to outdoor space to actually do the running; surrounded by folks who are pretty good about masks–I feel like it’s really the least I can do. But that research is very encouraging, so you’re welcome!
Redshift
@Chetan Murthy: I saw on Twitter (maybe here as well) a person who has a mask that read “IT GOES OVER THE NOSE!” She noted it seemed to be very effective and kept her from having to yell at people. :-)
eclare
@HalfAssedHomesteader: More mashed potatoes for me!
Sister Golden Bear
@mrmoshpotato: “Let them fight.”
O. Felix Culpa
@Dan B: Per last night’s discussion, trained but not working as a healthcare worker. Because being a grocery store cashier/bagger is…safer.
CaseyL
@Geoduck: Oh, hell, yes; I remember her. Didn’t remember the context, though, and just looked it up on Wikipedia. She started out as a bog-standard anti-tax GOPer and then morphed into a Christian Crazy.
I mean, there’s always been a streak of crazy – but after Trump it became the default position.
Mary G
Once in a while I feel bad that my parents were so abused and aggravated by their families after they married that they moved halfway across the country and I had very little contact or love for anyone but my mother’s mother. This is not one of those times.
Sure Lurkalot
@Yarrow: Why not abstain for 2 weeks and then resume the meals together thereafter?
Sister Golden Bear
Sadly, all too many LGBTQ folks know what it’s like to do the holidays alone because they’ve been disowned by their families (there’s a reason that the busiest days for gay bars are Thanksgiving and Christmas).
For me it’s going to be a solo Zoom Thanksgiving. Had plans to get together outside for a meal with friends, but we decided it was prudent to cancel.
JoyceH
@Josie:
I just placed my first pickup order, was fun! But I scheduled pickup for Tuesday afternoon. I know myself too well – pick up the order too soon and there won’t be any pumpkin pie left by Thanksgiving.
RedDirtGirl
@Redshift: I’m so sorry.
Geminid
I was happy to see that Kelly Loeffler will debate Raphael Warnock December 6. Should be good.
cain
@Geoduck:
We got a number of loons running for Gov in Oregon too.I still think Kitzhaber was the best so far, a nice blend of rural and progressive ideals.
The damn Oregonian took a scalp though. Alas.
Dan B
@Kent: That election was sorta Twilight Zone to me. I had anxiety about the possibility of having a governor who felt I, and many friends, were to be marginalized, at best. Then in the reverse direction was Gary Locke. He had wanted to marry my sister in law. His parents didn’t approve of a red headed Swedish American girl. We still have a photo of them together as part of the wildly diverse, and all eventually extremely successful, Franklin High Choir tour of Europe. They could have been the poster kids for why diversity and integration makes the country great. Ellen Craswell hated that concept.
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
@Sloane Ranger: Democrats should ask for a recount in Livonia, Michigan which is republican and reportedly has bigger discrepancies than anything in Detroit. Hell, ask for all the Republican Counties to recount.
Geminid
@Geminid: Warnock wants three debates, Loeffler has agreed to only one so far. Even that one may prove to be a mistake for her. She may be overconfident. The republicans are predictably running a dirty campaign in Georgia, painting Warnock as a rage-filled radical. The people who tune in will see a different man than the one they’ve been hearing about. And Warnock is a professional communicator; Loeffler is not.
Dan B
@Dan B
Nym still fubar. Hoping for salvation.
Zelma
@Barbara:
I’m lucky that my cousins, who live near-by, all voted for Biden. One pair voted for Trump last time and it took a while to repair the relationship.
Brachiator
@Redshift:
This makes a lot of sense. It might be helpful if everyone try to throttle back their contacts with other people after Thanksgiving for two weeks if they can reasonably do so, especially if they attended a Thanksgiving dinner.
Kent
Pretty self-inflicted. He gave his flaky girlfriend way too much power and access. Came back to haunt him. He should have known better.
WaterGirl
@Dan B: Have you changed your nym back to Dan B?
Dan B
@O. Felix Culpa: Good to have that clarified. I thought he was working in a clinic as staff but not as a nurse. I bet the anger at being at risk if he gets into nursing at people who don’t seem to believe in science or safety, theirs or his, has an emotional impact.
JoyceH
@Geminid:
I hope he and Ossoff go all in on the corruption angle, because I think it’s a great one. Saw a great slogan for the GA runoffs, and it fits both of them – “They got rich. You got sick.” Simple, pithy, fits on a bumper sticker.
PsiFighter37
@Sloane Ranger: Fuck them. I bet this is what was discussed with the heads of the state legislature yesterday. Whitmer should summarily fire the board members on the GOP side and appoint someone with an ounce of honor (like Fred Upton) to push the certification through.
I think the GOP is making clear that if they ever win another election, they will never let another election be held again. This should be the permanent campaign slogan going forward.
Dan B
@Sister Golden Bear: When I moved away from home a group of us who were chosen family had the best Thanksgivings. The food was great – no sweet potato marshmallow casseroles, or the green bean version, or Jello vivisection molds. And we didn’t have to fearful of the bigoted and icy relatives.
Dan B
@WaterGirl: I tried to change it back and may have succeeded. We’ll see.
Thanks for the rescue! You’re the best!!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PsiFighter37:
can she? Rick Snyder endorsed Biden, if she needs a second one
Geminid
@JoyceH: Loeffler has avoided taking questions about her stock trades, but she can’t run away when Warnock pushes her on the issue, and I bet he pushes hard. Almost any debate topic can be used to set up an attack on her finances, and Warnock will be ready.
MeidasTouch put together a great ad detailing Loeffler’s stock trades. It leads off with 15 seconds of Judge Janeane Pirro ripping Loeffler on this issue (Pirro was trying to help idiot Doug Collins in the jungle primary). The ad ends with the tag line, “Fire Looting Loeffler.” I hope MeidasTouch gets the money to run it on TV. Rachel Bitecofer remarks that when people tell pollers they don’t like negative ads, they are not being totally honest. Those ads work.
Kathleen
@Nicole: I’m 71 and I think I look OLD because when I run in my urban neighborhood I have cheerleaders who encourage me from their porches or as they walk by. I attribute that NOT to my running prowess (I’m SO SLOW) but to the fact they see an OLD person who’s doing something resembling “running” (I call it “lumbering”). I don’t wear a mask while running but if I approach someone on the sidewalk (which is rare) I’ll step out into the lane closest to the curb.
Immanentize
@JoyceH: Kay in the Morning had a great idea — I wish I knew someone in the Georgia political scene….
Both Ossoff and Warnock should ask their opponents to sign a “NO CRYBABIES” pledge that everyone will abide by the outcome of the election and take no step to undermine the Democratic voting processes in Georgia.
I wonder if Lincoln Project is still active in Georgia?
WaterGirl
@PsiFighter37:
“Vote Democratic – we still believe in democracy.”
dirge
@Immanentize: pledge that everyone will abide by the outcome of the election
No. This implies that abiding by the result is some kind of optional extra, rather than an obvious consequence of participating in the first place.
Plus, of course, we can expect asymmetric application: for Democrats the pledge means no objections to cheating, no matter how egregious, but for Republicans it means nothing at all, like any other pledge they make.
TerryC
We’ve had a bubble of 11, my three kids and spouses plus one grandkid per couple. Governor Whitmer’s new order made us reduce that to a bubble of 5, my oldest and her spouse plus their 2-year-old (who we care for five days a week).
All the adults but two work from home and everyone is very careful. We had an outdoor Thanksgiving with the trimmings on the last 77-degree day a week or two ago.
We live on 18 acres of woods and meadow.
Geminid
@dirge: I am curious as to how trump approaches the Georgia Senate runoffs. he’s been quiet so far, I believe. But I think he will have to give up his desperate hopes of reelection soon, and then his self-interest will not be in play, except insofar as he can be a force in the republican party. Trump already has grudges against Governor Brian Kemp, first for picking Loeffler over Doug Collins (Idiot-Habersham) after Collins’ ardent defense of trump during the Judiciary Committee’s impeachment hearings. Then Kemp neither delivered Georgia in the election, nor forcefully backed trump’s post election steal. I’m hoping trump takes his grudges out on Loeffler by endorsing Perdue and not her, or making a pointedly tepid endorsement. Some of trump’s most rabid supporters have as much animus towards the RINO establishment as they have towards the left, maybe even more. They could vote for Perdue and leave the other part of the ballot blank.
Aleta
@O. Felix Culpa: Not quite. After training, nurses still have to pass exams to be licensed. Last spring some governors signed orders to grant temporary nursing licenses before taking the exam, licenses that would expire 90 days after a “covid emergency” was declared, for example. But there are definite downsides to agreeing to work that way. Like any professional licensing, it’s better to take the time to study, solidify, and do well on the exam. I have a student nurse in my family who like Goku is waiting to take the exam because of her current job. Not unusual.
Workers in grocery stores are front line workers and defined as “essential workers” because (like healthcare, food production, first responders, plumbers, etc.) because their work protects life and safety. Food workers are among the lowest paid essential workers and their jobs put them at risk. They deserve much better pay, as Goku mentioned last night.
I know nurses and teachers who’ve quit their jobs to protect their famililes’ and their own health and help out at home. I read that’s true of doctors too. Stress in hospitals is causing other illnesses. (My dentist lost all the hygienists in her practice, she told me, and she’s still hard pressed to find and keep even half the number they had.)
different-church-lady
Here’s the thing about ALL of this:
It’s not hard to be sane.
Just be sane.
JUST BE FUCKIN’ SANE.
(DCL, +3, and counting…)
Ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Exactly!
catclub
NO.
This is like lawyers not asking questions they do not know the answer to. Don’t do it. It can only cause pain if they find 50 thousand votes for Trump AFTER you asked them to recount.
Unless there are some other races that are in doubt.
catclub
so they can request. why grant that request after the certification has been done? What evidence have they presented that it should be withdrawn?
The Moar You Know
@Sister Golden Bear: Damn busy days for the straights bars as well. I always have to turn down Christmas and Thanksgiving gigs every year.
They are also depressing as hell, mostly.
catclub
@mrmoshpotato: here’s rooting for injuries in the process. also, don’t vote for those establishment GOP senate candidates.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@The Moar You Know: I think Thanksgiving eve is neck and neck with St Patrick’s Day. Like just about everything else, I think, what used to be a drinking occasion mostly for college kids and those a bit older now extends well into the middle-aged (St Ps, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, Halloween…)
dirge
@Geminid: I’m hoping trump takes his grudges out on Loeffler by endorsing Perdue and not her, or making a pointedly tepid endorsement.
Already some evidence of this, I think. Don’t recall where I heard it — probably my wife cackling over some tweet from the next room — but I believe he made some statement in support of Purdue with an oh by the way Loeffler too aside, while bitching that neither were doing enough to flip Georgia for him. So it seems quite possible he’s working up to being really unhelpful to one or both.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, in PA…
tl;dr – Rudy’s PA case dismissed with prejudice (it’s over in this federal court. Could potentially be appealed.).
Cheers,
Scott.
evodevo
@lowtechcyclist: Yep…same here..Mr. Evodevo and I are librul freethinkers who take every precaution, and my son and his in-laws are right winger evangelicals who are careless. My son is in the AF and gets tested a lot, but the rest of his wife’s people, I don’t trust as far as I could throw them.. he wants us to go from KY to covid central in FL at Xmas, and was really miffed when we said no way…I said, I’d rather still be alive and kicking next spring, thank you very much…he’ll get over it, and the grandkids spend all their time with their noses stuck to their devices, so I doubt they’ll be very disappointed lol
planetjanet
@Goku (Amerikan Baka): Sidewalks are often less than six feet wide. So you may have to pass by someone. It is easier to wear a mask. I wear one while riding my bike.
JoyceH
I think I’m going to have to cut back on my news viewing – too depressing. ICUs full and looks like the air travel is going to be close to normal for Thanksgiving. So the December news is going to be GHASTLY.
Scott Alloway
@LuciaMia: Here in Philly. 101.9 started last week. Wednesday I worked with my stepson on a window installation job he was hired to do. He boomboxed that station all day. Gutted rowhouse in South Philly, no heat. Good times for this old timer. Unfortunately, no Messiah music on their list nor any Tom Lehrer.
WaterGirl
@JoyceH: I’m not sure whether it’s worse to see it coming, and to have to see all these people who won’t listen, who are causing harm to others and will be causing hospitals to fill up…
Or… to be the people who behave irresponsibly and then in a couple of weeks get to see how selfish and foolish they were and what they have wrought.
I mean, obviously we don’t want to be contributing to the problem, but it is distressing to know that the train is going to go over the cliff, and not to be able to do a damn thing about it.