Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

How stupid are these people?

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

All hail the time of the bunny!

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

He really is that stupid.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

You are here: Home / Books / Monday Morning Open Thread: President Obama Remains the Undisputed Master

Monday Morning Open Thread: President Obama Remains the Undisputed Master

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… at driving the Worst People in the World ever farther out of their rotten little minds.

Foreign autocrats:


Implied: And as a former Chicago community organizer, I can respect the limited options that led to such a degraded career choice.

Diehard MAGAts:

Very Serious Media Village Idiots:

Cosplay socialists:

Reader Interactions

225Comments

  6. 6.

    PsiFighter37

    Seeing some talk on Twitter that Georgia is already back to purging voters, even those who just voted a few weeks ago. Hopefully that removes any notion that Raffensberger is a good guy, because he’s not.

  8. 8.

    John S.

    @Baud: It’s the sekrit code of Rose Twitter. You only understand if you’re already in the club, and you only get in the club if you already understand.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Gotta drop this here before I go, Florida Headline of the day: Man rescues puppy from jaws of alligator without dropping cigar .

    A man in Florida rescued his puppy from the jaws of an alligator, diving under the water and wrestling the reptile all without dropping the cigar in his mouth.

    Richard Wilbanks, 74, was walking his Cavalier King Charles spaniel, Gunner, around the pond near his retirement home in Estero, Florida, when the alligator raced up from the water and grabbed the dog, Wilbanks told CNN.

    “It came out of the water like a missile,” he said. “I never thought an alligator could be that fast. It was so quick.”

    Cameras set up by the Florida Wildlife Federation and the fSTOP Foundation captured the encounter, which shows Wilbanks in the pond, his head submerged as he tries to grab a hold of the alligator. He then emerges holding the reptile, which still has the dog in its jaws. In Wilbank’s jaws is a cigar – which he never drops.

    Wilbanks moves to the edge of the pond while trying to pry the dog free. Eventually he succeeds, and Gunner runs away while Wilbanks tries to extract his own hands from the creature’s mouth.

    Gunner has since seen a vet, and while he suffered a small puncture wound to his stomach, he is otherwise fine, CNN reported, while Wilbanks said that his hands were “chewed up”.

    He doesn’t want the alligator removed, he said. “They’re part of nature and part of our lives.”

    But he will be keeping Gunner on a leash and at least 3 metres (10 feet) from the pond from now on.

  25. 25.

    JMG

    It appears Michigan state election board will not vote to certify its results as the two Republicans will vote no. GOP legislature ready and willing to name Trump electors. Court battles to ensue. Why not lynchings to ensue?

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    @Baud

    To the tune of Rawhide.

    Scrollin’ scrollin’ scrollin’
    Keep that cursor scrollin’
    Move past all the trollin’
    Scroll by!
    .

  31. 31.

    Betty Cracker

    @OzarkHillbilly: What a brave guy to go in after his pup! This is why I have a stout fence to keep my dogs away from the river, and I never walk them off-leash around any body of water.

  32. 32.

    JMG

    @Baud: Ron Brownstein of the Atlantic and CNN on Twitter. Blogger and Michigan reporter Nancy Nall. New York Times story on one board member who says he’s gonna vote no.

  35. 35.

    Zzyzx

    Of all of the states involved, Michigan is the one that worries me the most going forward as they have a very hackable system and probably no way of changing it in the short term.

    The good news is that when the other states come in line, it’s likely that MI’s Republicans don’t fight too hard because they don’t want to deal with all of the fallout for none of the gain and then that could lead to saner rules coming into place.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    The 21 GOP Senators who have privately expressed their disdain for Trump are: Portman, Alexander, Sasse, Blunt, Collins, Murkowski, Cornyn, Thune, Romney, Braun, Young, Tim Scott, Rick Scott, Rubio, Grassley, Burr, Toomey, McSally, Moran, Roberts, Shelby. (2/3)— Carl Bernstein (@carlbernstein) November 23, 2020

  39. 39.

    JMG

    @Baud: I have to assume Whitmer and Co. are prepared for this event, seeing as the Wayne County board tipped the GOP hand last week.

  40. 40.

    MJS

    @JMG: If I understand it correctly, both Republican members have to vote “no”, and CNN is reporting that only one has said he won’t vote to certify, while the other isn’t saying anything. Remember, the two GOP board members in Wayne County also said they weren’t going to certify those results, but they did. It’s performative assholery.

  42. 42.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    I don’t even understand half of these tweets.

    Me either. I just thought it was because I’m dim. [Well, I guess I am, but maybe not in this case?]

    Yesterday, a friend reminded me of the phrase (or its equivalent): “I recognize all the words that you just uttered, but not in the order you used them.” [NB: my friend was talking about someone else. My friend is quite articulate, and all his words make sense in the order he speaks them.]

  44. 44.

    MJS

    @Baud: “Has become”? “Has always been, but is now out in the open” is more accurate. At least since Gingrich’s ascension, if not Reagan.

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    @rikyrah: Bernstein is showing journalists how it should be done.  As Kay has rightly said, elected Republicans should get ZERO credit for acknowledging that Trump is an incompetent boob on background or secretly congratulating Biden for winning the race. Safeguarding our democracy is part of their damned job. Was glad Bernstein name-checked the two cowardly shit-stains who represent my state in the US Senate.

  46. 46.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Traitors.  Whitmer will deal with them.

    I hope so. Bribery? Soliciting a bribe? [For trying to get Trump to give them COVID relief in exchange for their vote. Yeah, yeah, “the President did not try to pressure them” etc etc blah blah blah. You got a bridge you’ll sell me, dirt cheap, as well?]

  48. 48.

    MJS

    @JMG: Likewise, if I wasn’t going to participate in this bullshit, I wouldn’t advertise that fact, which would just invite Michigan’s right-wing militias to make me their next target.

  49. 49.

    lowtechcyclist

    [Obama’s] Vice President just won the largest electoral victory in a generation.

    Fact check: true, if you define ‘a generation’ to be very very short.

    Obama won a much bigger electoral victory in 2008, and his victory in 2012 was by roughly the same margin as Biden’s this year.

    The idea that Obama failed to produce a center-left legacy that dominates modern politics is just racist edgelord wishful thinking.

    In order for that legacy to dominate ‘modern politics’ it must dominate the legislative bodies where that politics happens.  Other than for a brief moment in 2009, Mitch McConnell has had a veto over pretty much everything the Dems have wanted to do.  And then there’s the state legislatures.

    Fact check: FALSE.

  50. 50.

    Geminid

    @Baud: There are relatively small groups of armed left wing militia. One guy from Chapel Hill NC brought a dozen or so people with rifles to the August 2018 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, ostensibly to protect anti-fascist demonstrators. They were outnumbered 10-1 by rifle  toting militia members. At one point a Maryland klansman did fire a pistol close to a counterdemonstrator holding a lighted hairspray can. Thankfully this did not precipitate a firefight. It would have been a bloodbath. Judge Moore of Charlottesville gave the Klansman 8 years of prison time. The Culpeper man with the spray can  got some weekends of jail time, two years probation.

    As horrifying as the death of Heather Heyer and the severe injuries to her cohorts were, I’ve always thought Charlottesville was lucky that day wasn’t far worse.

  54. 54.

    Starfish

    @John S.: So many people were getting so upset by Rose Twitter yesterday. I live so far outside of it that I was not sure what they had done. A couple of days ago some of them were fantasizing about Trump stealing the election so they could yell “Bernie would have won!” They are pretty exhausting at this point.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    @satby:

    And it seems way too little, too late now.

    Yep.  It’s amusing watching so many people pretend to be smart because they realize what BJ understood at least four years ago.

  59. 59.

    Quinerly

    @Baud: I thought the exact same thing. Thank you for admitting it. I was truly wondering if something had happened to my reading ability/comprehension overnight.

  64. 64.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Not sure who’s pretending to be smart in this scenario — Bernstein, the cowardly senators or all of the above? I think Bernstein has been pretty good throughout the Trump presidency, certainly by Beltway standards. As for the senators, of course they knew Trump was a dangerous fool all along. Even Lil’ Marco, who isn’t as bright as either of my dogs. It’s a cowardice and dereliction of duty problem, IMO.

  66. 66.

    Starfish

    @Baud: That’s a great way to put it. There was a lot of freedom of speech whining yesterday too about “Won’t the true believers hold onto their beliefs more strongly if we censor them?” I don’t care about the strength of a cultist’s beliefs. I do care about the amplification.

  67. 67.

    Immanentize

    In other news, that doesn’t involve making up facts that prove we will lose, it seems Emily Murphy is scheduled to appear before a House Committee today.  That Committee includes Katie Porter.  I hope she brings her white board.

  68. 68.

    Another Scott

    @lowtechcyclist: A “generation” is the average female reproduction time and is usually taken to be 18 years (though it’s getting longer in the USA).  I rate that part “true”.

    On the other part, he’s probably referring to Biden winning the primary (and against Donnie) showing continued dominance against the Wilmer wing.  I rate that part “mostly true” but could have been expressed more clearly.

    YMMV.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  69. 69.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: It is cowardice and dereliction of duty. Republican officeholders are keeping their heads down because they want to keep the trump voters while letting others do the messy work of sending him off.

  70. 70.

    SFAW

    @Immanentize:

    In other news, that doesn’t involve making up facts that prove we will lose, it seems Emily Murphy is scheduled to appear before a House Committee today.

    I’m sure she’ll appear, and be completely forthcoming, just like her boss.

  71. 71.

    Joe Falco

    Georgia State Elections Board to consider emergency elections measures on Monday.

    There are three items the board will consider:

    1. Continue authorization for counties to use dropboxes for absentee ballots.
    2. Require counties to begin processing (but not count) ballots a week and a day before election.
    3. Direct counties to “review all available evidence” to determine whether someone registering to vote is a Georgia resident. Among other things, local registrars may consider whether the applicant has a valid Georgia driver’s license or identification card, whether they have a motor vehicle registered in the state and whether they have paid the required title ad valorem tax on the vehicle as required when moving to Georgia.
  72. 72.

    Elizabelle

    More virtual film festival, by and about Native Americans.  The Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian, this week.

    Healing Voices; available now through November 27, 3:00 Eastern.  Recommend “Sisters Rising” highly; strong women speak about helping to protect women in their communities against violence.   58 minutes; was also screened this weekend with the Pocahontas Reframed festival.  (FWIW, the Fort Berthold reservation in North Dakota is stunningly beautiful in summer.)  [re the reservation, per wiki:   in western North Dakota ;  home for the federally recognized Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara Nation, also known as the Three Affiliated Tribes. I’d not heard of these native nations before.]

    nîpawistamâsowin: We Will Stand Up.  98 minutes.  A young Cree man, Colten Boushie, was shot and killed by a farmer; a Stand Your Farm incident in rural Saskatchewan, with trial following.  Excellent and troubling film.

    Overview of the whole NAMI film series.  Some of these films disappear after tomorrow.

  74. 74.

    rikyrah

    Brian Kemp has been one of Trump’s most loyal servants and people have died because of it. Pardon me for not having sympathy for on the mob he’s coddled turning on him.— David Dennis Jr. (@DavidDTSS) November 22, 2020

  79. 79.

    JPL

    @Joe Falco:   Number 3 could be problematic, but supposedly it is to prevent people to temporarily relocate in order to tilt the election.   Only republicans are allowed to cheat.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: The timing is unclear?  My guess is it may be “non-public” but later a cspan spectacular as can happen these days.

  82. 82.

    JPL

    @Immanentize:   She’s painted herself in a corner now.   If she had followed the guidelines as written, it’s likely the rabid right would have accepted it.  Now that their cult leader has declared massive fraud, they never will.

  85. 85.

    RSA

    @Zzyzx:

    Michigan Republicans piss me off.

    According to Mahar, the counts in 28 percent of Detroit’s precincts and absentee counting boards were still out of balance without a clear explanation. But the size of the errors was small — a difference of one or two votes per precinct without a clear explanation of why the imbalance occurred, affecting a ballpark amount of about 450 total votes.

    That’s 450 out of 878,000 votes, 0.00051 of the total.

    By analogy, I’m imagining running a chain of stores:

    “Boss, Store #231 pulled in $878,000, but there’s a discrepancy of $450.”
    “Plus or minus?”
    “Can’t tell.”
    “Okay, we’re going to have to shut everything down until we figure this out.”

  87. 87.

    topclimber

    @Another Scott: I think the biggest EV comment may have confused the EV margin with the popular vote one. Recent memory is telling me Biden beat Trump’s sorry ass by a bigger percentage than any challenger to an incumbent since FDR demolished Hoover.

    As for an enduring Obama coalition, it does look like it is the one that has proven most effective against the GOP. Reagan set the tone for Republican dominance even though he lacked party control of Congress, as I believe both Bushes did for a few years. So has Trump the past two. Let’s not set the bar unrealistically.

    We can (and oh yes we will!) debate the proper mix of center and left in the Democratic Party. But we damn well better build on what Obama and Biden and a cast of millions have done. We need to dominate national politics for at least the next decade. Otherwise, we and our planet are fracked.

  89. 89.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Okay, it was the local NPR station. The leftist groups don’t have a formal name; the leader called them “community self-defense” groups. Their membership, like the militias, are largely veterans. Somewhere in between the two are “street medics” who it seems try to reason with everyone.

  92. 92.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Republican officeholders are keeping their heads down because they want to keep the trump voters while letting others do the messy work of sending him off.

    This understates what’s happening here, IMO. It’s a frame that is inherently beneficial to Republicans. “They don’t really mean to overturn an election…”

    Most of them are not keeping their heads down. Most of them have been cowed by Trump into not even using the word President Elect and most of them are actively casting doubt on the election by insisting that it will be decided by a court.
    It’s simply not true that most of them aren’t actively participating in this- they are.
    I don’t know why they’re doing that and I’m under no obligation to believe what they tell Jake Tapper or Maggie Haberman secretly.
    It is not my job as a member of the public to find reasons for what Republicans, by both word and actions (including joining or bringing court cases) are promoting here. It is their job to tell me. They have told me. What they say is they don’t accept the results of the election. That’s the stated, public GOP position. Finding some other, better, secret reason isn’t or shouldn’t be the job of reporters and it certainly isn’t the job of the public.

  93. 93.

    TS (the original)

    @JPL:

    Only republicans are allowed to cheat.

    And they are probably the ones that are deciding to relocate to tilt the election. Whatever they say democrats are doing – that is what the GOP is doing.

  94. 94.

    Nicole

    @OzarkHillbilly: I watched the video just now, having heard about the incident, but not seen it.  My two thoughts:

    1. Eh, that’s not such a big alligator (it was much more epic in my imagination).  I would’ve gone after the gator, too.
    2. That’s reason 1,281 for why you keep your dog on a leash, folks!

    Thank you for posting the link; I’m glad they were all 3 okay, though I imagine likely a little disappointed on the part of the alligator.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    If you’re assuming Obama’s goal was to be the liberal Reagan? Yeah, he failed. There’s no comparison to the level on which Reagan managed to fuck us up. I don’t think anyone in the modern US could be a liberal Reagan because liberal ideas just aren’t stupid enough to be that appealing.

    Even FDR could only do it by making a devil’s bargain with racists, basically the same one Reagan made later. And if you can’t or won’t do that, you’re hosed.

  98. 98.

    Kay

    What if we set the ordinary, adult standard for words and deeds and applied that to Republicans?

    1. They say they don’t accept the results of the election. They join lawsuits seeking to throw out 6 or 1.5 or 30k votes. They meet with GOP state lawmakers and bribe them with champagne and parties. They join in blocking the transition.

    2. OTOH, they secretly told Jake Tapper and Maggie Haberman that they don’t really want to overturn an election.

    We GIVE them the second? Why in God’s name would we do that them that favor? Here’s how the Republican Party must prove they didn’t and don’t intend to overturn an election- they have to say it in public using their names and dismiss their lawsuits. That’s the ordinary adult standard.

    I’m not giving them a lower standard. I’m not coming down. They have to come up.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @germy:

    Murphy has already lied under oath. She’s already lied once for Trump in a congressional hearing when she was protecting his disgusting, corrupt fleecing of the US public in regards to his DC real estate.

    Murphy is a liar and she’ll lie under oath. We already know that. No reasonable person should believe a word she says.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    Instead of questioning Murphy, who is a liar and will and has lied under oath, what if the career people under her were questioned as to her activities and work since the election?

    If they want to talk a subpoena would protect them, and, again, Murphy is liar.

    Can we go around the low quality, weak, cult-member Trump hires and get some actual information?

  101. 101.

    LurkerNoLonger

    Twitter makes everyone sound like assholes and makes assholes sound like bigger assholes. I think it’s the character limit…and the limit of one’s character*.

    *Damn, I’m on fire this morning.

  102. 102.

    Betty Cracker

    @Nicole: The video I saw didn’t show the gator grabbing the dog, but my guess is the pup had wandered pretty close to the water. Sadly, that sort of thing happens, which is why it’s so important to leash dogs around any body of water in Florida, as you said.

    I’ve read about people rescuing their dogs from gators lots of times but never saw a video of it until now! Can’t wait to show my husband, who did not grow up here and whom I sometimes suspect of not taking the gator threat seriously enough. :)

  103. 103.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @MJS:  This whole Stalinist cult of personality around Trump is new. The Republicans didn’t start with St Reagan Maxiumus until he was out of office.

  104. 104.

    Barbara

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, removing one gator is barely worth the effort.  It’s amazing there aren’t more alligator related deaths in Florida.

    I am so tickled that one of Obama’s favorite songs is Michelle by the Beatles.  What a guy.

  105. 105.

    SFAW

    @LurkerNoLonger:

    *Damn, I’m on fire this morning.

    Jumping in a lake might help with that. If the fire is more localized, a possible solution might be sticking your head in a bucket of water.

  106. 106.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The Republicans didn’t start with St Reagan Maxiumus until he was out of office.

    I remember differently. It was definitely starting during his term, particularly in the run-up to his reelection after the early ’80s recession ended.

  107. 107.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Dan Pfeiffer, who was Senior Advisor for Strategy and Communications under Obama, disputes the cowardice theory of Republican behavior (full text here):

    So, why the hell are Republicans sticking with Trump on his farewell self-immolation tour?

    The leading theory in Washington is cowardice. [snip] This narrative is comforting because it implies that the Republican Party is not beyond repair — they are just cowards, not bad people. Here’s the problem: the events of the last few weeks make it crystal clear that this narrative is wrong.

    If the Republicans are motivated by political calculation as opposed to cowardice, what’s the calculation?

    Republicans represent a dwindling base of mostly white, working class voters. With every passing election, this base gets smaller. Therefore, in order to win they need to get higher and higher turnout from that base. Trump has proven that the best way to jack up turnout with these voters is through an apocalyptic, conspiracy theory laden narrative of victimization at the hands of others. The “others” in this narrative are almost always people of color.  [snip] The Republican approach to the post-election period is a very specific political calculation about what they believe is best for the party — regardless of the impact on the country. [snip]

    The danger is not that Trump will steal this election. It is that election theft is being normalized as not just acceptable, but as necessary Republican strategy. The next Republican that doesn’t try to steal an election will be branded a RINO and face a primary challenge.

    The Republicans are very aware of just how damaging their approach has been. They just don’t care.

  108. 108.

    PenAndKey

    @ALurkSupreme: I’m being completely serious here when I ask (no matter how insane the idea is), what legai and enforceable standard prevents her from doing just that? The language of the law is:

    “The terms “President-elect” and “Vice-President-elect” as used in this Act shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the office of the President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained by the Administrator following the general elections held to determine the electors of the President and Vice-President in accordance with title 3, United States code, sections 1 and 2.”

    So, yes, in a sane world the only possible answer here is that Biden has the EC count necessary to meet this threshold and she can’t say otherwise. Murphy is already violating the spirit and text of the law by refusing to admit this and treating Trump’s lawsuit attempts as legitimately having a chance of changing the EC count totals. From what I have seen there’s nothing actually stopping her from “ascertaining” that Trump will come out on top in his fights. And, as we have seen time, and time, and time again, if there’s nothing stopping Trump and his minions from committing an action they’ll eventually end up doing it.

  110. 110.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I was stating what I thought was a motivation of republican officeholders who state privately to reporters like Bernstein what they don’t say publically. No warranties as to their character were express or implied. If you want to infer justification from explaination, that is your right. People do that all the time, in general as well as political discussions.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    .⁦
    @lisamurkowski
    ⁩: “It is time to begin the full and formal transition.”

    Murkowski has been ordered by Donald Trump not to say “”President elect” and she is complying with that speech order.
    The entire Republican Party vets all their speech past Donald Trump and the low quality Trump hires. They may not use certain words.
    “Liberty! Freedom!”
    They are people who easily and naturally gave in to an authoritarian leader, up to and including the words they utter. They cannot be relied upon.

  113. 113.

    germy

    No Emily Murphy on TV today.

    To be clear, this should be a briefing so it will likely not be televised, but her answers today will determine how the House moves forward and if they compel her to testify in a public hearing. Stay tuned. https://t.co/hCUFlkO6go— Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) November 23, 2020

  114. 114.

    ALurkSupreme

    @PenAndKey: I see your point, but it’s just not a rabbit hole I want to go down this morning, so I’ll leave your question to the better legal minds on this board.   In my own probably uninformed opinion, she’s already played the one card she has to play.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Why would we offer them a better explanation as to their behavior than they themselves are willing to offer?

    I assume people who join a court case to throw out 1.5 million votes want to throw out 1.5 million votes no matter what they secretly tell Carl Bernstein.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Bernstein is telling us they’re hypocrites and liars. “Hypocrites and liars” is better than than what they have done here, which is deny the results of an election and block a transition.

    That’s why they’re telling Bernstein that. Because it’s better for them. Is it true? I don’t know- all other people get judged by what they say and do publicly rather than what they secretly tell 3 other people, so I’m just holding them to the ordinary, higher standard rather than the lower standard they want me to adopt.

  117. 117.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    They are once again getting both sides of their argument. “We want to overthrow an election”- that’s what they filed, Judges are evaluating their claims based on what they filed.

    But they ALSO get this “we don’t really want to throw out an election”

    They have to choose. Pick ONE. They don’t get both. There’s just no reason to to give them that.

  119. 119.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker: My FiL and BiL live in a planned development in Texas with nice ponds and a natural slough.  There are plenty of gators who get into the ponds and hunt little dogs.  Generally, the management company pulls gators that reach 6 feet out of the ponds.  But the slough is the slough!

    And anyone who doesn’t know how fast gators travel on land near a body of water has no place living near one.

  120. 120.

    Barbara

    @O. Felix Culpa: Yes, of course, he is right.  The tell is that the exceptions are almost soly those whose electoral or professional status is not at risk (Pat Toomey), or might be at higher risk if they don’t speak up (Larry Hogan).  Even someone like Cory Gardner who probably is never going to get elected to any public office is apparently angling for a position within the RNC.  So  he has to toe the line, and he does.  The only other exceptions to this are people like Michael Steel who have been off the reservation for a while now.  Those who are trying to thread the needle, like Murkowski and Collins, by wringing their hands asking for an orderly transition without acknowledging what’s really going on deserve special contempt.

  121. 121.

    Joe Falco

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I think Dan has the right of it, but it’s incomplete because this election has showed, in Florida at least, that the Republicans can use that method and wring some votes out of certain Hispanic groups by playing on their fears and traumas experienced from their countries of origin.

  122. 122.

    Tdjr

    @Nicole: They were lucky it was a small gator. The pup was a tiny snack for a bigger one and would have been swallowed before the guy could hit the water.?

  123. 123.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: How do we get this to penetrate?  Judge people by actions.  You probably have this same feeling — Id rather appear before a careful thoughtful judge who is courteous and follows the law while being a total racist in his home or a bar over a smug insulting judge who makes up new rules as he goes along but is a pinacle of  equality and virtue outside the courtroom.

    I mean, it is a real clever trick these Republicans run — vague denials or expressions of concern while doing bad things.  Susan Collins has made a successful career doing it!  People finally caught onto her game, but she was reelected.

  124. 124.

    Another Scott

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s pretty easy to find examples on all sides.  “Let Reagan be Reagan.”  He was “attacked” for not being “conservative” enough on some things, but it’s hard to tell if that was performance art or what.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125.

    germy

    Thread from someone who knows:

    I’ve seen several recent stories in the press that seem to point to a coordinated attempt to portray @GSAEmily as some kind of unassuming, apolitical bureaucrat.

    My subcommittee oversees GSA. I know Admin Murphy. She is a Trump loyalist, through and through.

    Thread:

    — Rep. Gerry Connolly (@GerryConnolly) November 22, 2020

  127. 127.

    PenandKey

    @Immanentize: And anyone who doesn’t know how fast gators travel on land near a body of water has no place living near one.

    I know how fast they are. It’s a big part of why I will never live anyplace in the US that doesn’t freeze in the winter. Just… No thanks. I prefer living someplace that doesn’t have apex predators that used to eat dinosaurs as part of the local food chain.

  129. 129.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Joe Falco:  My sense it that there are at least two dynamics with the Hispanic groups you reference: Cuban and Venezuelan emigrees who respond reflexively to “socialism” ooga-booga, and longer settled working class and small business-owning Hispanics in the Southwest who are transitioning to honorary white status, just as the Italians and Irish did decades ago.

    ETA: In New Mexico you also have the descendants of the conquistadors, who do not identify with the Mexican and Central American arrivistes. Many of the older folks in the “traditional Hispanic” group are socially conservative and deeply Catholic. They are peeling away from the Democratic coalition. I’m looking for research to find out where their children and grandchildren are trending; I think it likely that the latter are more liberal, but need more data to be sure.

  131. 131.

    Immanentize

    @germy: Again, even Rep. Connolly is fighting the “who she is” fight.  I don’t care.  I see what she is doing and it is WRONG.

  134. 134.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Matt McIrvin: Sure, but that was more like fanboism, . This is full Stalin 2+2=5 with Republicans saying things they know are dangerous lies out fear of being denounced and purged.

  135. 135.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: Hey man! How have you been.  The batshit crazy lawyering has made me insane — how about you?

    PS — I’ve been on something of a social media hiatus for mental health reasons.  I have a lot of balloon juice to catch up on.

  137. 137.

    Just One More Canuck

    @Baud: Will Rudy usee the liquid from the vegetables left rotting in the bottom of the fridge as his hair dye again?

  141. 141.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    This is full Stalin 2+2=5 with Republicans saying things they know are dangerous lies out fear of being denounced and purged.

    They aren’t afraid of Trump.  They are afraid of their own voters.  Republicans went batshit insane when a black man was elected president.  Trump is only the current face of a screaming psychotic tantrum by slightly more than half of whites that THEY are normal, THEY must be obeyed, THEY get to hurt whoever they want, THEY are the future, and THEY must never be contradicted in any way.  Since conservatives love sadistic bullying that puts them in no danger and requires almost no effort, the deluge of death threats the base dishes out to anyone who catches their eye is extremely unpleasant.

    And it doesn’t help that all elected Republicans are somewhere on the index of derangement.  Very few of them are as far along as Trump, that’s all.

  142. 142.

    BR

    @PenAndKey:

    You’re right — I did the math, and once PA certifies, Biden is over the 270 mark (along with GA, AZ, and NV).  No need to wait on the recount in WI or the nonsense in MI.  I imagine the nonsense will quickly come to an end once that is apparent.

  143. 143.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @O. Felix Culpa: Not disputing that that might be the Republican strategy, but I keep wondering what kind of country they want power over. One in which 3000 people are dying every day from communicable disease? One with a cratered economy?

    Maybe their own ill-gotten money is enough for them.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @germy: The Oversight Commitee is a large one. There will be questioning from, besides the wicked smart Katie Porter Democrats: Chairman Carolyn Maloney(NY), Eleanor Norton (DC), Steven Lynch (MA), Jim Cooper (TN), Gerald Connolly (VA), Raja Krishnamoorthi (IL), Harley Rouda (CA), Kweisi Mfuni (MD), Ro Khanna (CA), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (CA), John Sarbanes (MD), Peter Welch (VT), Robin Kelly (IL), Mark DeSaulnier (CA?), Brenda Laurence (MI), Stacy Plaskett (Virgin Islands), Jimmy Gomez(CA), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY), Rashida Tlaib (MI), and Ayanna Pressley (MA).

    Kweisi Mfume both preceeded and succeeded the late, great Commitee Chairman Elijah Cummings, who I really miss.

  146. 146.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    There are real tangible consequences for us normalizing this behavior. Republicans in Congress just won a larger vote share than Donald Trump. They kept their jobs because of this bullshit narrative where they were able to set themselves apart from Trump.

    Republicans in Congress did better than Donald Trump in the last election. We don’t have the senate because they were able to do this “wink wink, nod nod” bs and distance themselves from Trump’s actions.

    They are playing both sides of this because it benefits them. All I’m asking is that we force them to pick a side and not go along with the cover that goes “this is all political theater”. Why the fuck would any Democrat ever give voters a reason to continue to vote for Republicans in Congress?  We’re telling people that while it’s not safe to vote for Donald Trump it IS safe to vote for a GOP Congress. And that’s exactly what they did.

  148. 148.

    Immanentize

    @O. Felix Culpa: A scholar and acquaintance I admire deeply, john a. powell (all lower case), and I had a great conversation about how in the Jim Crow days, the primary question was “Who is not white?” Every generation, the miscegenation rules got more strict — 1/2 black blood to 1/4 to 1/8 to 1/16 to one drop of black (or Indian or Mexican) blood.

    Thereby, the category of “not white” grew.  powell thinks the new question is who is “not black.” It doesn’t rely on blood or even color at all — it depends on success in the white world under specific terms.  Tiger Woods is “not black.” Kyle Kaepernick is black.  Nikki Haley is “not black.”  Ben Carson is “not black.” The whole post-racial thing came about because people thought there was agreement that Barak Obama was “not black.” Ooops.  He failed the specific terms of the not black club.

  150. 150.

    LAO

    @SFAW: Thanks, covid adjusted, I’m fine.  It’s just been very, very stressful — which I certainly expect has been true for every one.

    @schrodingers_cat: come on, what no thoughtful and insightful commentary?  I don’t believe it.

  151. 151.

    SFAW

    @BR:

    I imagine the nonsense will quickly come to an end once that is apparent.

    I hope you’re right, but the non-zero part of me that is paranoid about those traitors says that, if their cheating gets Biden down to 270, there will be even more insanity coming from the Traitor-in-Chief, and I expect Bill Barr has some evil planned.

    Not a completely rational worry, of course, but given how these fuckers have been destroying (or attempting to destroy) a functioning US government, I wouldn’t put anything past them. And I am less than sanguine about what the traitors on the SCOTUS will do. Sotomayor, Kagan, and Breyer are fine, Roberts would probably side with them, but how many others? [Not a rhetorical question; I really can’t tell on which side of the line Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would fall. ]

  152. 152.

    LAO

    @Yarrow: Maggie is living her best life.  The power balance of our relationship has totally shifted.  I can’t believe how well trained she’s got me.

  153. 153.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Murkowski has accept the limits on her speech Donald Trump hasd imposed, where she’s forbidden to say “President-elect” yet she wants credit for saying Biden should get transition funds 3 weeks after the election?

    Bar, lowered. Standard, lowered. No. I’m not giving her a lower standard. Jake Tapper will! Maggie Haberman will! Carl Bernstein will! But why would Democrats?  Tie him to her like an anchor around her neck. Everything he does that she puts up with is now HERS.

  155. 155.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: I miss you so!

    Mental health is overrated!  Come back!

    I am zooming my ass off teaching a LOT of classes online.  I did a really interesting amicus in support of cert. out of Ohio in a double jeopardy and merger! claim.  Otherwise, waiting for the sun.

    Happy to see you.

  156. 156.

    Yarrow

    @Kay:

    We’re telling people that while it’s not safe to vote for Donald Trump it IS safe to vote for a GOP Congress. And that’s exactly what they did.

    Completely agree. The messaging was that Trump was awful but there was much less emphasis on how dangerous his enablers are. Super frustrating.

    When I was talking with anyone who might have usually voted for Republicans I framed it in a, “So disappointed in what Republicans have become. Why aren’t they standing up to Trump? Why aren’t they standing up for the country?” kind of way. I put the blame on Republicans for not doing their jobs. Then I’d pivot to “They’ve all got to go because the country needs a party that will stand up for the country” format. I know I got several people to vote against all Republicans so I know that tactic can work.

  157. 157.

    Barbara

    @SFAW: No, the danger is that by signaling that it can be done it opens us up to a future where it becomes a go to tactic, and not every election promises to be nearly this secure mathematically.

  158. 158.

    PenAndKey

    @Yarrow: You’re going to have fewer and fewer options. Alaska maybe?

    Well, I do live in Wisconsin, and while our weather has been trending up even the worst case scenario maps I’ve seen have us staying at or below the freeze point for Dec-Feb in the next sixty years. So the pine trees are migrating north, but gators shouldn’t be an issue in my lifetime. That, and I have been working at convincing my wife that Canada looks pretty good. If Ontario ends up with southern WI weather that may be enough to finally convince her to agree to move.

  161. 161.

    Immanentize

    @O. Felix Culpa: Ugh.  In Texas you have the Canary Island Hispanics who are generally lighter skin and trace their lineage back to the Spanish, ignoring their entire centuries-long intermarriage and relationships with the indigenous peoples.

    It’s an illness.

  163. 163.

    JPL

    @LAO: It’s great seeing you and you always focus on yourself first, and us second.     So we can safely rule out that you’re Sydney, right?

  165. 165.

    Yarrow

    @Dupe1970:  Ted Cruz was owned by the Mercers and was the candidate who used the Cambridge Analytica Facebook data before the Mercers dumped him and gave Trump that data. He knows there’s plenty of dirt on him and how bad it will be if he speaks out against Trump. Not speaking out against him even in private is an act of self-preservation and has nothing to do with his intelligence or lack thereof.

  166. 166.

    Kay

    @Yarrow:

    We’re still doing it. “Oh, they don’t really mean they’ll throw out 6 million votes! They’re much, much better than that. They’re just playing a little politics!”

    What if we stopped making excuses for them and just let their words and actions speak for them? What is the possible downside of that? That it will freak out people who voted for Biden? Good! They should be freaked out! The Republican Party is trying to throw out their votes.

  171. 171.

    Kay

    @Yarrow:

    Biden has actually been BETTER than the rest of the Democratic Party. At least he didn’t hustle to give Republicans an excuse. He doesn’t weigh in on WHY they’re trying to overturn an election. That would be better than endorsing and promoting their excuses.

  174. 174.

    Yarrow

    @Kay:  No argument from me. I do not understand why Dems can’t see the advantages of doing this sort of thing. Are they afraid they’ll make the media bothsides gatekeepers angry and someone will write a mean thinkpiece or something? Get a grip.

    Maybe time for a little Maya Angelou quoting, of the “when people tell you who they are, believe them the first time” sort of thing. “Republicans are saying they want to throw out 6 million voters’ votes and we take them at their word.” Etc.

  175. 175.

    LAO

    @schrodingers_cat: I get it.  After the last 4 years, I’ve totally lost my trust in my ability to judge politics and understand what’s going on.  It’s part of the reason why I haven’t been around, I certainly didn’t want to contribute to a collective breakdown.  Frankly, I’m completely demoralized by Trump’s post-election actions and the collective response of elected Republicans.

  176. 176.

    JPL

    @LAO: lol   I spelled it wrong, it’s Sidney Powell.   She has a lot of free time now and who knows might check up on us.   I’m pleased to hear that Maggie has been taking good care of you

    If you ever visit GA again, some of us hope to keep it blue.

  177. 177.

    PenAndKey

    @Yarrow: Canada is going to have to build a wall there will be so many American migrants wanting to cross their border.

    Their legal immigration system is already tough enough. If you’re not wealthy or a 20-something prodigy good luck getting in with anything less than a masters degree, 3+ years of high level skilled labor experience, near-fluent bilingual French skills, or family already in-country.

    My wife and I each have a BSc, are both considered O-class skilled labor, and in our early 30s. Result? Without either uprooting my career and missing out on my kid’s childhoods so I can risk everything by signing up to be a temporary foreign worker for a couple years, or snagging a provincial nomination (from Saskatchewan, which is the only province I can maybe get one) I actually have very little chance of ever meeting the score threshold to actually qualify for permanent residency.

    I’ll be honest, it’s a pipe dream at this point more than anything because the math simply isn’t there. My kids could conceivably get in by attending college there, but they’re 11 and <1 y/o, so that’s years off.

    Now, illegal immigration across the border? You are very likely right that it’ll be a growing concern this century. And won’t that be a hearty bit of irony?

  179. 179.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Immanentize: I did a really interesting amicus in support of cert. out of Ohio in a double jeopardy and merger! claim.

    Because Ohio’s second degree murder statute doesn’t differentiate between intentional murder and felony murder?  Jury verdict of not guilty on one prevents retrial on the other?*  I was involved in one of those back in early 2000s.

    *Many substantive details omitted for space and not boring the normies reasons.

  181. 181.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer:

     I keep wondering what kind of country they want power over.

    Good question. My guess is that (1) they’re not deep thinkers and (2) they assume they’ll be somehow immune. Leopards, faces, and an expectation that their authoritarian regime will somehow end differently from all the others.

  182. 182.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @PenAndKey: You do know that the vast majority of people in Ontario live at the same latitudes as Wisconsin, right?  Toronto is south of La Crosse.

  187. 187.

    schrodingers_cat

    @PenAndKey: FWIW it is easier than our system. I have had many friends from both India and China who came here as students and then immigrated to Canada because of the interminably long wait to get a GC if you don’t have relatives in this country and come from countries that send many immigrants to the US (India, China, Mexico and Philippines IIRC)

  188. 188.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: That was part of it, but it also involved a pleas, five years incarceration, then a new attempt to charge a capital crime.  Weird.  But fun!  Sosa.

  189. 189.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Immanentize:

    powell thinks the new question is who is “not black.” It doesn’t rely on blood or even color at all — it depends on success in the white world under specific terms.

    Very interesting observation with explanatory power for the current environment and ethnic groups with upwardly mobile aspirations. Also an awful tell on the deeply embedded anti-black racism in our society.

  190. 190.

    Yarrow

    @schrodingers_cat:  We need more people to join us on Team Exception!

    I get that sometimes people get demoralized. This stuff is exhausting. And sometimes fear wins for the moment and people freak out. But when it happens over and over again it’s time to look to see if we’re being used, in the sense that Dems freaking out and their resulting exhausting is someone else’s goal.

    Pessimism and freaking out doesn’t help us achieve our goals and it actively depletes our energy. It also doesn’t draw anyone to our side. People are generally attracted to confidence. We could benefit from demonstrating that we have it. We’re on the side of right, patriotism, and American democracy. We can be confident in that.

  191. 191.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat: Really? Maybe I’m reading a different set of comments than you. I saw mainly one person doom and glooming, who received significant pushback. Most of the discussion has been fairly substantive on other issues.

  193. 193.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    Here’s how the Republican Party must prove they didn’t and don’t intend to overturn an election- they have to say it in public using their names and dismiss their lawsuits. That’s the ordinary adult standard.

    I’m not giving them a lower standard. I’m not coming down. They have to come up.

    I called Hoyer’s office on Friday, saying that Pelosi, Hoyer, Schumer, etc. should give their Republican colleagues that day and the next to acknowledge that Biden was the President-elect.

    And that if they didn’t overwhelmingly meet the deadline, then the Dem Congressional leaders should be all over the Sunday morning shows, pointing out that Congressional Republicans were overwhelmingly going along with Trump’s efforts to undermine the election and destroy our democracy.

    Needless to say, that didn’t happen.  But it should’ve.  I’m good with Biden and Harris staying above the fray.  But the Dem Congressional leadership should be in the fight, kicking GOP ass.

  194. 194.

    Immanentize

    @Yarrow: maybe they just act like they want to reproduce a plutocracy over here?

    Different topic. I had an idea last night — what if someone raised funds to create big monuments to Grant and Sherman and Sojourner Truth and Harriet Tubman and others and then placed them in the Southern States that protect civil war monuments?  I bet we could get a lot of money for that endeavor.

  197. 197.

    Immanentize

    @O. Felix Culpa: I look at the world through that lens now.  It explains the strong assimilationist urges of folks like Mexican American farmers and small businessmen in the Rio Grande Valley.  That and the priests.

  198. 198.

    Aleta

    @LAO:  I love how they turn a command we taught them into a gentle order to us.   “I’m sitting here.  That’s your cue.  Give treat.  (omg these bozos are thick.) “

  199. 199.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m talking about today. Perhaps I misread, but your comment seemed to refer to responses to this post. Agreed that there has been significant doom-and-glooming in the past weeks…and also significant pushback. I leave when the doomsayers take over, but I like to give reality-based pushback a chance. I also have compassion for those who are frightened. These are scary times. I remind myself, when I get scared, that we fucking won. Not the war perhaps, but a major battle, and we live to fight on.

  201. 201.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Immanentize: Sigh. I still hold out hope for the youth. We did major youth outreach this election (within parameters of what was doable in the pandemic) and I’m waiting for the data to come in so we can measure impact.

  202. 202.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Immanentize:

    I did a really interesting amicus in support of cert. out of Ohio in a double jeopardy and merger! claim.

    Boy, that word “interesting” really doesn’t mean what it used to anymore.

  203. 203.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    If Democrats tell the public there is nothing to worry about when Republicans try to overturn an election the public will believe it, and they have.

    Again- I get why media are doing it. Why are Democrats?

    It’s not fine. They’ve successfully blocked the transition. They’ve successfully distanced themselves from Donald Trump to the extent that are now permitted to say one thing publicly and another privately and we’re all voluntarily adopting how Republicans characterize their own behavior.

  204. 204.

    Kay

    Trump’s approval is going down. I bet the GOP’s approval would go down too if we stopped making excuses for Republicans and told people they are trying to overturn an election, instead of telling people they don’t really mean it.

  205. 205.

    NotMax

    @LAO

    Wow, you’re back. it’s like hearing an offstage voice on the B-J version of This Is Your Life. A welcome sound indeed!

  206. 206.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: They’ve successfully blocked the transition.

    No.  They have not.  Biden is still setting out plans, still naming his cabinet, and still going to be president on January 20, 2021.  They have interfered with a smooth transition process.  It is a bad thing, but it is not blocking the transition.  Hyperbole can get in the way.

  208. 208.

    Kay

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT
    ·20m
    Sources familiar with the discussions said that there became a lot of unease about what Powell and Giuliani have been saying given the two Senate runoffs, but that people see Powell’s comments as more problematic. Saturday Newsmax interview brought it to a head.

    Question- does this framing help Republicans? Of course it does. Why in God’s name is every Democrat promoting it?
    The press conference they gave exists. The thing happened. Media want you to ignore than and instead rely on their “sources” who are giving a much more political beneficial reason for this insanity,
    No. I’m going with what they said at the press conference. It’s not my fucking job to give Republicans cover.

  210. 210.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You continue to insist Republicans aren’t blocking the formal transition. Yes, they are. Even Murkowski admits it. She says they should stop blocking the transition.

    We gave them 3 weeks and we didn’t get shit in return. I don’t know Omnes- is there anything more real than people dying because they’re blocking the transition. That’s what Biden said. Does he mean it?

  211. 211.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: I don’t deny that what they are doing is a problem.  But they are not not going to prevent Biden from taking office.  Fundamentally, that is my point.

  214. 214.

    Aleta

    @Omnes Omnibus:  A block is an interference.  Their blocking has successfully caused interruptions and delays— they’re blocking access to federal funds, interrupting federal processes like obtaining security clearances,  and blocking transition hires from access to federal agencies.  (In my understanding of what I’ve read.)

    But to me your general point about hyperbole in the comments is good.  Useful if you could sometimes apply it more universally to other commenters’ negativity.  ( Hasty examples:  “The blog is a drag, hardly worth reading”  “Commenters here are fearful”   “You (a specific person) are (- x). ” )

    You have enough influence to reduce that kind of negativity, which is also infectious among us social animals acting as a group and affects its mood.

  218. 218.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat: Well, you did say

    Today seems to be a good day to stay away

    but I’ll take your interpretation. I appreciate your insightful comments and don’t generally care for broad-brushing the commentariat.

  220. 220.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Lee Chatfield
    @LeeChatfield

    This is as true today as it was when I first tweeted it. Election integrity matters. That’s why our ongoing legislative inquiry matters. And whoever gets the most votes will win Michigan just as they always have. The BSC has their legal job to do and we have ours.

    This is not okay. Checking and re checking and re checking votes ONLY in AA counties in an attempt for Republicans to throw those votes out is not okay and it is not okay whether or not they actually succeed in blocking Biden.
    We can’t even defend our own voters now? The millions of people who came out in a pandemic and stood in line for hours? We all must pretend this is perfectly fine as long as Joe Biden becomes President?

    We lowered our standards. We lowered our standards to meet the rock bottom levels of the Republican Party where as long as the coup doesn’t actually succeed everything is hunky dory. It’s not.

  221. 221.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Election integrity matters

    This is a racist dogwhistle intended to portray every non white voter as a presumptive felon and it’s being eagerly promoted by the entire Republican Party, all the way down to the county level.

    People CAN and SHOULD object to this. Democrats- especially elected Democrats who after all were the beneficiaries of most of these votes- need to object to it. NOT pretend it’s business as usual.
    I don’t care what their third level, backflip, strategic secret reason for this is. It matters not at all. What matters is that they’re doing it.
    Object, object, object. If you don’t, this is the new norm.

  223. 223.

    J R in WV

    @sherparick:

    I don’t think he is going to have any problem keeping that puppy away from the water from now on.

    I want to give that guy all the credit for having the courage to dive into alligator infested waters to save his pooch!!

    I might have done that in the heat of the moment, but OMG afterwards I would have been all shook up!

    What a hero!!!!

  225. 225.

    J R in WV

    @PenAndKey:

    Murphy is already violating the spirit and text of the law by refusing to admit this and treating Trump’s lawsuit attempts as legitimately having a chance of changing the EC count totals.

    She should be impeached, so as to lose her pension and all benefits, for breaking the law. Should be a long list of such people, in one impeachment bill. Make the Republican Senators vote to acquit the bastards in public, on a roll call vote.

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