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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 Coronavirus / COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Thursday/Friday, Dec. 3-4

COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Thursday/Friday, Dec. 3-4

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TL, DR:

… At an earlier ACIP meeting, Talbot warned that vaccinating this population at the start of the vaccine rollout is risky, because long-term care residents have a high rate of medical events that could be confused as side effects of vaccination and undermine confidence in the vaccines. “And I think you’re going to have a very striking backlash of, ‘My grandmother got the vaccine and she passed away,’” she said at the time…

Are you concerned that these are doses that are going to be wasted?

I wouldn’t say wasted. But not used as efficiently as they could be.

If I know it works in a healthy health care worker, I’d rather get all the health care workers vaccinated, so that when they are around the frail elderly, they don’t get the frail elderly sick.

We don’t have enough vaccine yet for all health care workers. We will eventually, but we don’t yet…

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Reader Interactions

62Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    Countries reporting total cases over one million: 14

    U.S. ~14,320k
    India ~9572k
    Brazil ~6487k
    Russia ~2403k
    France ~2281k
    U.K. ~1676k
    Spain ~1676k
    Italy ~1665k
    Argentina ~1448k
    Colombia ~1343k
    Mexico ~1145k
    Germany ~1129k
    Poland ~1029k
    Iran ~1003k
    .

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Everyone will get a card

    I’ve got a hundred bucks says they will run out of cards in a week or less.

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    At least 81 elected officials in state & federal govt have tested positive for the coronavirus since Sept. 1.
    ➡️Nearly 3 out of 4 #COVID19 positive elected officials are Republican.

    I thought it was a liberal hoax, turns out not only is it not a hoax, it’s been weaponized and DEMs are using it against their political superiors!

  7. 7.

    NeenerNeener

    Monroe County, NY yesterday: 654 new cases, 347 total deaths since the start of the pandemic, 470 people hospitalized now and 93 in the ICU. Ugh.

  11. 11.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    Good thread:

    COVID Update December 3: Not enough attention has been played to the villainous role of Mitch McConnell and the Senate in this pandemic. 1/

    — Andy Slavitt @ ??? (@ASlavitt) December 4, 2020

  14. 14.

    WereBear

    This only fuels my utter contempt for anyone who is a Republican. Full stop. I don’t care how “nice” they are to certain people. They have been, and still are, horrible to every person.

    I don’t know when it will come up because normal is far away from me (unemployed and likely to remain so) and my partner (chronic illness) but when it does it might explode like a volcano.

  15. 15.

    Amir Khalid

    Malaysia’s daily Covid-19 numbers. Director-General of Health Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah reports 1,141 new cases today at his media briefing, for a cumulative reported total of 69,095 cases. Dr Noor Hisham also reports no new deaths today, with the total remaining at 376 deaths — 0.54% of the cumulative reported total, 0.63% of resolved cases.

    Dr Noor Hisham notes that Malaysia’s R0 is currently at just under 1.0.

    10,799 active and contagious cases are currently in hospital; 129 are in ICU, 53 of them on respirators. Meanwhile, 1,144 patients recovered and were discharged, for a total of 59,061 patients recovered — 84.1% of the cumulative reported total.

    Eight new clusters were reported today: Muda building site, Galeri building site, and Bukit Dalam in KL; Cempaka in Johor; Sungai Cincin in Perak; Huma in Kelantan; and Jalan Genting and Atabara in Pahang.

    1,138 new cases today are local infections. Sabah has 320 cases: 61 in existing clusters, 184 close-contact screenings, and 75 other screenings. Selangor has 319 cases: 155 in existing clusters, 96 close-contact screenings, and 68 other screenings. KL has 255 cases: 226 in older clusters, 15 in Muda building site, Galeri building site, and Bukit Dalam clusters,10 close-contact screenings, and four other screenings. Johor has 50 cases: 39 in older clusters, eight in Cempaka cluster, and 3 other screenings. Penang has 48 cases: 26in existing clusters, four close-contact screenings, and 18 other screenings.

    Perak has 47 cases: 34 in older clusters, six in Sungai Cincin cluster, six close-contact screenings, and one other screening. Kedah has 24 cases: 20 in existing clusters, and four other screenings. Kelantan has 20 cases: one in an older cluster, and 19 in Huma cluster. Negeri Sembilan has 15 cases: 7 in existing clusters, four close-contact screenings, and four other screenings. Pahang has 15 cases, in Jalan Genting dan Atabara clusters. Labuan has three cases, found in other screenings.

    Putrajaya has two cases: one close-contact screening, and one other screening. And Perlis has one case, found in other screening.

    Melaka and Terengganu reported no new cases today.

    Three new cases are imported. They were reported in KL, Selangor, and Sarawak. They are arrivals from Indonesia, Bangladesh and the United Arab Emirates.

  16. 16.

    sab

    One of my husband’s friend’s has been in ICU for a mysterious infection affecting his heart valve. They just bumped him out of the ICU into a regular hospital bed because they need the ICU bed for a Covid case. They told him they know he should still be in ICU but that the Covid case is sicker and needs it more

    ETA: NE Ohio south of the Cleveland region. (Ohio is divided for Covid into regional clusters so they know where to look for beds in biger hospitals and extended care.)

  17. 17.

    Martin

    Test positivity rate in Iowa now over 50%. At the rate they’re going they won’t need a vaccine.

  19. 19.

    sab

    I think that Branswell piece on vaccinating the elderly in assisted living is really important. My dad is 96 and reasonably healthy with some dementia. His nurse’s aide is pretty vaccine wary normally. She would be devastated if anything happened to him, and she certainly would blame the vaccine and tell all her many friends and relations.

    ETA: I want him to get it because Covid seems a particularly horrible way to go, but in his particular nursing home they really seem to be on top of things, so I think his only chance of exposure is from the nurse’s aides. So vaccine probably would be better used on someome else.

  20. 20.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Martin: Time to build a wall on the Illinois side of the Mississippi.

    How’s South Dakota doing these days (pre-Thanksgiving travel explosion)?

  21. 21.

    daveNYC

    People are mistakenly envisioning return to normal as soon as a vaccine is in hand. Don’t fumble on the 1-yard line!

    A depressingly optimistic take on things to think that the USA hasn’t been fumbling their way through this entire thing.

  22. 22.

    Cermet

    Two of my girlfriend’s relatives are already dead from Covid (one was a Proffesor at Johns Hopkins) and one is expected to die any day. This is one bad virus.

  24. 24.

    Steeplejack

    @sab:

    First, I hope your husband’s friend gets better and gets out of the hospital.

    But your comment reminded me that the only accurate count of deaths from COVID-19 we’re ever likely to get is the eventual accounting of “excess deaths”—the number recorded, regardless of the listed “cause of death,” beyond what would be expected historically and statistically. There are the direct COVID-19 deaths, but there are the people with comorbidities, the people with something else listed on their death certificate, the people who never made it to the hospital, etc.

    I think one of Anne Laurie’s posts had a link about this in the last day or two.

  27. 27.

    Rusty

    That flattening of hospitalizations may also be a sign that hospitals are reaching capacity.  A friend that works in a St. Louis hospital said they have more people in ICU  then they normally have beds for, they have expanded overall numbers of beds, and could do more but they don’t people to staff them.  They will soon be sending people home they would previously have admitted.  Other news stories stay se hospitals are already doing this.  As we reach hospital capacity, the numbers will get funny.

  28. 28.

    Steeplejack

    I noticed yesterday that it seems like all the “medical” people on TV are wearing those blue disposable masks rather than cloth ones. Does that mean they’re better, or are they just convenient? At this point, I would think, if some sort of cloth mask was better then medical workers would have a batch of those and use them in rotation.

    I have a miscellany of cloth masks, a couple of which I have gravitated to as being comfortable and fitting well, but I also have a box or two of the blue “surgical” ones, and I like and use those as well. I haven’t seen any ratings or comparisons lately.

    ETA: Maybe nurses and doctors wear the disposable ones because they have to change them when they move from patient to patient? But my brother, an ophthalmologist, uses the same one all day while seeing patients for exams, etc. (with barriers and other safeguards as well).

  29. 29.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Yesterday, China reported 2 new domestic confirmed and 0 new domestic asymptomatic cases, and another confirmed case early this morning. The new confirmed cases are reported by Manzhouli in Inner Mongolia “Autonomous” Region, 1 is previously asymptomatic already under isolation, and the other 2 are traced close contacts already under quarantine. Currently there are 24 confirmed, 1 asymptomatic and 2 suspect cases in the city. The city commenced the 3rd round of mass screening of all residents from 12/3.

    At Qingdao in Shandong Province, the 2 asymptomatic cases (cold chain logistics worker and a relative) were reported on 12/1, 645 F1 close contacts, 420 F2 close contacts, 172 regular contacts and 1,035 at risk individuals been traced and quarantined, all have tested negative so far. 531 F1 close contacts, 399 F2 close contacts and 172 regular contacts have been tested 3 times via RT-PCR and once via serological antibodies, all negative. 494 F1 close contacts and 201 F2 close contacts have been tested 4 times via RT-PCR and once via serological antibodies, all negative.

    Yesterday, China reported 15 new imported confirmed cases and 12 imported asymptomatic cases and 1 new imported suspect case:

    * Shanghai Municipality – 9 confirmed cases, 3 Chinese nationals returning from Spain and 1 each from the US, Cambodia, the Ukraine (via Germany), Bulgaria (via Germany), Italy (via Switzerland) and from France; 1 suspect case, no information released
    * Zhengzhou in Henan Province – 2 confirmed cases, no information released
    * Xiamen in Fujian Province – 2 confirmed and 3 asymptomatic cases, all Chinese nationals returning from Russia
    * Fuzhou in Fujian Province – 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from Japan
    * Rizhao Port in Shandong Province – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese crew member off a cargo ship from Indonesia
    * Shenzhen in Guangdong Province – 1 confirmed case, a US/Australian dual citizen coming from the US
    * Guangzhou in Guangdong Province – 3 asymptomatic cases, 2 Chinese nationals returning from the US and 1 from the Congo (Kinshasa) (via Nairobi)
    * Mengla County in Xishuangbanna Prefectur, Yunnan Province – 2 asymptomatic cases, both Chinese nationals returning from Myanmar
    * Chengdu in Sichuan Province – 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from Germany
    * Hangzhou in Zhejiang Province – 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from Egypt
    * Dalian in Liaoning Province – 1 asymptomatic case, an Indian crew member off a cargo ship

    Yesterday, Hong Kong reported 112 new cases, 12 imported (from Indonesia and Pakistan) and 100 local (36 of whom without clear sources of infection, and 17 related to the ballroom dancing clubs). There are additionally 80 cases who are preliminarily positive.

  30. 30.

    Steeplejack

    Some guy talking about “excess mortality” and all the related issues on Morning Joe right now. Missed his name. Okay, it’s Dr. Richard Besser(?).

  31. 31.

    Brachiator

    @sab:

    So vaccine probably would be better used on someome else

    There will be enough vaccine for everyone. I don’t think you have to worry about this.

  34. 34.

    grandmaBear

    @Steeplejack: I think the quality of cloth masks may be too variable, and that the paper ones are as good, what they’re used to and disposable. We got a taste of the regimen almost 2 years ago when the granddaughter was in a cancer ward. There were hand sanitizers both inside and outside each room, we had to wear masks at all times outside her room and inside the room when she was in the most vulnerable part of the chemo cycle. Hospital & med staff replaced their masks after each visit as I remember. Dr. DIL complained recently that they were only given 1 mask per day. She’s in family practice so not with COVID patients, at least not known ones.

    ETA also hand washing was constant.

  35. 35.

    satby

    @Steeplejack: yes, the blue disposable ones are meant to be discarded between patients to avoid cross contamination. The Dr. I work for uses only one per day too, because as an optometrist she’s using the same distancing and barrier protocols as your brother, so one per day is fine.

  36. 36.

    Robert Sneddon

    @cs: The Scottish Government has announced that the rich-traveller exemption from quarantine does not apply in Scotland, it’s an England-only deal.

  39. 39.

    Steeplejack

    @grandmaBear, @satby:

    I guess my takeaway is that I’m leaning toward using my disposable masks more. I go out infrequently, and my trips are usually short, so I’ve been leaving one in the car and replacing it every few trips.

    My brother is freaking out a bit because three optometrists at his HMO—but at another facility—have tested positive for the virus.

  41. 41.

    Robert Sneddon

    @satby: Another thing is the N95 blue medical masks are suitable for high-temperature incineration for disposal after use. Reusing them was not part of the design requirements for material choices, manufacturing etc.

  42. 42.

    WereBear

    I’ve found my best mask choice was the densely woven cloth ones that stay on and are comfortable. Then I fold a tissue into the filter pocket, which gets me to the top of the ratings, per what I’ve read lately.

    A mask that itches and bounces around my face is going to make the quality of the mask meaningless.

  43. 43.

    Brachiator

    @Steeplejack: 

    My brother is freaking out a bit because three optometrists at his HMO—but at another facility—have tested positive for the virus.

    I am not sure I understand why a doctor would wear only one mask a day, but I am battling insomnia and am a little groggy.

    I read about how at one hospital, staff were scrupulous about wearing masks. Except when they used a small break room to relax. Small room, relatively crowded, not the best ventilation. So there was an outbreak. It is hard for us as social animals to be consistently careful.

    We still have outdoor dining near where I live. People are cautioned to try to eat only with members of their household. But I see coworkers eating together all the time.

    People still meet with friends and extended family members at home. And perversely the stay home recommendations increase the risk of spread for some people.

    It’s hard to do the right thing, even with the best of intentions.

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack

    @Brachiator:

    I am not sure I understand why a doctor would wear only one mask a day [. . .].

    That’s their protocol, presumably justified medically. Both my brother and the patient are in street clothes (brother with ceremonial “white coat of knowledge”), both are masked, and there is a “salad bar” type shield between them. Equipment and barriers cleaned between patients.

  45. 45.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @Steeplejack: the blue paper 3 layer disposable “surgical” masks you see most healthcare works wear are the best masks, only an N95 respirator without a valve is better, however those need to be fitted correctly and should be left for medical personnel. Full disclosure I work as tech staff in a lab(specimens not patients).  we get a new blue disposable mask every day, we are NOT allowed to wear cloth masks in the labs.

    Here is an article about a Duke university study on masks:

    Masks Save Lives: Duke Study Confirms Which Ones Work Best

    From the study, mask effectiveness is based on materiel it’s made from, specifically how tight the weave is – the numbers in parenthesis are the corresponding photo from the article.

    In order of effectiveness:

    1. Fitted N95, no valve (14 in photo)
    2. 3-layer surgical mask (1)
    3. Cotton-polypropylene-cotton mask (5)
    4. 2-layer polypropylene apron mask (4)
    5. 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask (13)
    6. 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask (7)
    7. Valved N95 mask (2)
    8. 2-layer cotton, Olson style mask (8)
    9. 1-layer Maxima AT mask (6)
    10. 1-layer cotton, pleated style mask (10)
    11. 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask (9)
    12. Knitted mask (3)
    13. Double-layer bandana (12)
    14. Gaiter-style neck fleece (11)

  47. 47.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not only easily faked (why not have some sort of holographic seal or similar),  but I couldn’t find evidence of a smartphone version.  I hardly have any cards anymore — my car insurance and registration come through the appropriate apps on my phone, which is a layer of authenticity, however small.

  48. 48.

    sab

    @Brachiator: There won’t be enough vaccine for everyone for quite a while.

    I am not against nursing home residents being high on the list. But we already have a lot of people suspicious of the vaccine thanks to “warp speed” objectives being so badly misrepresented by Trump and his crew that we really need to avoid creating the perception that the vaccime is dangerous.

  49. 49.

    Sloane Ranger

    Greetings from the UK. Here are yesterday’s figures.

    We had 14,879 new cases, about 1200 less than Wednesday, and the rolling 7-day average continues to go down, currently the decrease is 16.9%. New cases by nation,

    England – 11,992 (down @1200)

    Northern Ireland – 456 (up @40)

    Scotland – 958 (up 7)

    Wales – 1473 (down 7).

    Deaths – There were 414 deaths yesterday and the trend is downwards. Yesterday’s deaths were 328 in England, 11 in Northern Ireland, 51 in Scotland and 24 in Wales.

    Testing – 352,990 tests were processed out of a capacity of 582,449. The rolling 7-day average continues to show a decrease in tests being processed. In this case, of 8.1%.

    Hospitalisations – As of Tuesday, 1 December, 15,236 people were in hospital and 1315 were on ventilators on Wednesday, 2nd. Trendline for both is down, as are hospital admissions.

    General – Grant Shapps is a member of the “business isn’t just important, it’s everything” wing of the Tory party and an idiot. Although his plan isn’t quite as bad as it sounds, it is still extremely stupid and short sighted. Twitter is already alight with the hypocrisy. And, while I note Robert Sneddon’s comment above about Scotland, what is to stop someone flying into England and crossing the border into Scotland? Nothing that I can see.

  50. 50.

    Robert Sneddon

    @Sloane Ranger: General – Grant Shapps is a member of the “business isn’t just important, it’s everything” wing of the Tory party and an idiot. Although his plan isn’t quite as bad as it sounds, it is still extremely stupid and short sighted. Twitter is already alight with the hypocrisy. And, while I note Robert Sneddon’s comment above about Scotland, what is to stop someone flying into England and crossing the border into Scotland? Nothing that I can see.

    There is supposed to be an embargo on non-essential cross-border travel at the moment so flying into England should mean they have to stay in England and preferably in the same district they arrived in, even if they don’t quarantine. Supposedly.

  51. 51.

    J R in WV

    The twitter thread with numerous Trump supporters refusing to consider receiving a vaccination is amazing. So much ignorance, so much willful stupidity, so much accepting the evil of being willing to infect others. All asserting equivalence between a shot card and genocidal extermination camps. Don’t know how a thinking person makes that leap…. oh, wait!

    Anyway, hope there’s a database of individuals who receive vaccinations for airlines, arenas, etc to use to check before selling tickets. Don’t want to be beside an unvaccinated person even if I’ve had my shots. Plus, they are evil and stupid!

    I don’t even know how any vaccinations I received in boot camp, dozens for sure. Everyone felt way down the next couple of days, although no one got really sick after a shot day. And there was more than one shot day, too. Maybe 3, don’t recall that long ago.

    ETA: I’m still relying on my 3M n100 respirator, even though I look like I’m from Mars wearing it. I can’t smell the over perfumed lady at the grocery, can’t smell the blue smoke from the Suburban running next to my car while loading groceries. Seems very protective, although it is valved for exhalation. If I’m not infected, that won’t matter for anyone else, esp if they wear a good mask.

    I have to go to the courthouse for a license renewal, which means I will have to take the mask off for the photo, for at least a few seconds. Very uneasy about that. But I need the renewal… Wish me luck! WV isn’t up in the list of dangerous states, it is a small rural county, everyone inside the court house wears a mask… but still…

  52. 52.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @sab: I feel the same way, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System allows anyone to report something that happens after they get a vaccine that they think was caused by the vaccine.

    A person in their 80’s (or anyone) having a stroke, heart attack, etc days, weeks or more after receiving a vaccine could potentially be reported as a vaccine adverse event.

    VAERS report an adverse event

    VAERS – info from CDC Wonder site

    Who Can Report to VAERS? Anyone can report to VAERS.

    FDA and CDC encourage patients, parents, and others to report any significant problems experienced after vaccination, even if they are not certain that a vaccine caused them

  53. 53.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Steeplejack:

    This just in: my brother’s freakout level has increased slightly with the news today that a pharmacy tech at his (large) facility has died of coronavirus. No details on exposure or where contracted.

  54. 54.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @Steeplejack (phone): I refuse to freak out, but I do understand.  I have been working a normal M – F week averaging about 8 hour days in a pretty busy, smallish building.  There have been 4 positives since 1 November.  None before that. I got tested(my decision) about 2 weeks ago and am getting tested again next week.  I don’t worry so much about me but my husband has several serious commodities and I do not want to bring it home to him…

  56. 56.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @EmbraceYourInnerCrone:

    My brother has a husband and two kids (6 and 4) at home. He has put in his papers to retire next April, and he jokes about not wanting to be like the veteran sidekick cop in the movies (Danny Glover?), coming up on retirement and—well, you get the picture.

  58. 58.

    bluefoot

    @WereBear: My local ACE hardware had N95-type inserts you can put into a cloth mask.  I like the couple of cloth masks I’ve made (all by hand – I don’t have a sewing machine) since I can make them fit better and I prefer ties to elastic.  So I think this weekend I will be experimenting with creating a “pocket” in the masks for inserts.  Kind of like how people have been using coffee filter inserts and you’re using a tissue.

    I also want to work on nose wires (I’ve been taking them out of my used disposable masks and saving them)…the colder weather makes mask wearing and glasses a bad combination.

    ETA: re disposable masks.  I work at a biotech company and we are required to wear the company-issues disposable masks now.  Prior to October, we could wear our own disposable or cloth.  We get one per day, except the people who work in the animal facility.

  59. 59.

    bluefoot

    @J R in WV: Good luck!  As long as community/prevalence numbers are low, and your mask is off for a short time, I expect you’ll be okay.  I also assume that the courthouse has increased ventilation in the photo area since that is one space where people have to be maskless.

  60. 60.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @NotMax: Nationwide data base updated < 24 hr, online & instantly searchable. Serious fines for fake cards. Really serious consequences (e.g., large-ticket lawsuits from those exposed by them) for those who contract COVID and are found to have used fake cards.

    No other way. Can’t allow scofflaws & conspiracy nuts to put the rest of us at risk.

  61. 61.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @bluefoot: You may know this but Amazon and probably other vendors sell packs of the double plastic “nose wire” strips that are used for masks. About 7 dollars for a pack of 100.

  62. 62.

    bluefoot

    @EmbraceYourInnerCrone: Thanks!  I’ve been trying to avoid Amazon since I have few COVID risk factors and can still shop in person – I figure I can leave the delivery infrastructure to those that need to use it.

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