Wisconsin court rules there is enough evidence to warrant a trial for Kyle Rittenhouse in the killing of two men and the wounding of a third in Kenosha in August. The killings came two days after the police shooting of Jacob Blake, a Black man.https://t.co/Nn8TlP5lGF
— The Associated Press (@AP) December 3, 2020
While his right-wing-crowd-funded lawyers did their uneven best, it seems that ‘hapless manchild forced to defend himself against angry pervs and violent anarchists’ was an insufficient excuse to just quietly flush this whole unfortunate incident down the memory hole. So here’s some horror tales for a Saturday night:
This says so much about the tragedy that is the United States of America, November 2020:
Easy access to weapons.
Little access to healthcare.
Less access to mental health.
Rage, racism.
Unemployment & economic fearfulness.
And #COVID19 in the background.https://t.co/X93EUXpRzH pic.twitter.com/HaZzPEqg8f— Laurie Garrett (@Laurie_Garrett) November 19, 2020
… A Washington Post examination of video and police records, along with other documents, sheds new light on the mindsets of the two people principally involved — one a gun enthusiast who thought of himself as a medic, the other a homeless man with a criminal record who was discharged that day from a psychiatric hospital.
The Post found that Rittenhouse, who was too young to buy a rifle, had arranged for an adult friend to buy the weapon for him using money Rittenhouse had received from a government stimulus program.
The Post interviewed Rittenhouse, who spoke publicly for the first time since his arrest. He said he did not regret that he had a gun that night. “I feel I had to protect myself,” he said. “I would have died that night if I didn’t.”
One of Rittenhouse’s sisters told The Post that he supported peaceful demonstrations but objected to violence and called the rioters in Kenosha “monsters.”
The examination also reveals new details about Rosenbaum’s struggles with mental illness and includes the first on-camera interview with his fiancee, Kariann Swart. “I don’t think there’s any sort of self-defense when there’s an unarmed person in front of you, and you’re holding an assault rifle two feet away,” she said. “But yet on the other hand, you know, Joe, you shouldn’t have been down there.”…
Some of the worst people in the GOP Death Cult helped buy Rittenhouse his temporary freedom, some of them are trying to further their political careers off him, and — inevitably — some of the cultists have gone to war with their fellows over him. Meanwhile, the best future this sorry mope can look forward to is a cell adjourning Dzhokhar Tsarnaev‘s in the ‘But It Seemed So Heroic When They Described It to Me’ Supermax…
99% of suburban gun nuts masturbate to this fantasy of winning a heroic OK Corral shootout against murderous invaders. 0% of them will ever have a chance to. It is sad, in a way, until they, fired up by obliging GOP fearmongers like Ted, go actively looking for their chance…
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) November 22, 2020
For, you see, 99.999% of gun nuts are, to use a technical term, pussies. I haven't shot an actual gun since I was 16 and never plan to again in my life, and I could beat up any one of them with a frying pan without breaking into sweat. They are decadent, bored, suburban pussies..
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) November 22, 2020
They know that as long as they merely brandish their toys and yell at cops' faces, then, by virtue of being white, they are gonna be fine. Actually pulling that trigger unleashes a world of possibilities they have never contemplated when jerking off to their fantasies…
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) November 22, 2020
Someone young enough to not understand consequences. Or someone stupid enough to not care about them. Someone like Kyle Rittenhouse, who would have made a perfect Hitlerjugend in the 1940s, or someone like the Michigan would-be kidnappers who are actually violently insane…
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) November 22, 2020
Rittenhouse won't be the last one. Not all crazy plots will fail. More "heroes" will be elevated by the right. Killing liberals will become normalized. Some suburban pussies may actually be convinced that pulling the trigger won't have dire consequences. You finish this story.
— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) November 22, 2020
raven
I brought this up when it was released and got eviscerated here.
TaMara (HFG)
Didn’t both his lawyers quit yesterday?
Kent
Give him a fair trial then send him away if convicted.
The rest is just noise. the victims would be just as dead if he had saved up his paper route money to buy the rifle.
debbie
I’m worried you-know-who will pardon him.
Kent
@debbie: He’s being tried on state murder charges. Only one who can pardon him is the Democratic governor of Wisconsin.
tybee
@raven:
remember that “Garden and Gun” link you posted some weeks back?
i had bookmarked that link and finally got around to looking through it. Well written (particularly the conservation articles) and a pleasure to read.
thanks.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@debbie: he can’t pardon state crimes
debbie
@Kent:
That won’t stop you-know-who.
debbie
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
The Constitution says he can do anything he wants.
Kent
@debbie: Yes it will. The presidential pardon power is only for “crimes against the United States” which means Federal crimes. He has no power to pardon state crimes. Only the governors have that power.
raven
@tybee: Talk about eviscerated!
raven
@debbie: So you think the trial is going to be in the next 40 some days?
Yutsano
@Kent: He can issue the pardon. But the state of Wisconsin can feel free to ignore it.
Kent
@Yutsano:Well sure. He can also issue a proclamation declaring he won the election. And the electoral college will ignore that as well.
HumboldtBlue
I have no desire to expend energy talking about this fucking murderer.
Back to baking it is!
Dread
I have decided that I do, in fact, wish to take your guns away.
If you are an avid hunter, you will be permitted to have one rifle and one shotgun registered and licensed with the government and secured at an offsite sporting club armory.
If your job entails risk, you live in a higher crime area, or have taken out a restraining order against someone, you may purchase one six-shot revolver which will also be registered and licensed with the government. You will be held responsible for any accidental deaths or crimes committed with your weapon, so I suggest you secure it.
Otherwise, go fuck yourself. You don’t need a gun.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@debbie: He could pardon him, but it would have no effect since they’re state crimes.
The Dangerman
I’ve seen this movie before; this POS will get a hanged jury.
raven
@Dread: rotsa ruck
dmsilev
Meanwhile, the devil has gone down to Georgia looking for some votes to steal:
nclurker
for christmas,when i was in fifth grade,i got a single shot,bolt action .22.
when i was 15,i got a shotgun.
bird hunted for quail until i was 18 or so,when i decided i liked to shoot clay pigeons
more than actual birds.
i still have shotguns.
i don’t remember taking them with me when i went to any protest during the sixties.
John Revolta
I recall something from the movie “Gimme Shelter”. The filmmakers caught the moment when the Hell’s Angels stabbed a guy to death that was waving a gun around and heading toward the stage. Somebody, don’t remember who, said “When you pull a gun, you open a door”. Things like this make me think of that.
Jeffro
@Dread: I think the 2nd amendment talks about ‘arms’, meaning as long as you allow folks to have 2 weapons, you can cut ‘em off after that.
Plus people only have two hands, so what’s the point of having more than 2?
#TwosTheLimit
Jeffro
@dmsilev: wow, that is nuts
Even my dog was like, DAMN, that is at a high pitch!!
Dread
@Jeffro: Technically, it talks about the right to “keep and bear arms” meaning you may own a halberd and a bear claw gauntlet.
debbie
@raven:
He pardoned Mathew Golsteyn before he went to trial, according to this depressing list.
Baud
OT
Baud
@dmsilev:
I’m looking forward to the new Green Acres remake.
debbie
So much for those nonsense appointments:
Jay
A thread,…….
raven
@debbie: Well if that’s what you want to worry about knock yourself out.
Jay
@debbie:
Dumph’s pulled troops and CIA from Somalia, back across the border into Kenya,
Prince is in talks with Wagner to provide mercs.
RSA
@Jay: What a horrifying story. I should have followed the rule of not reading the comments, too.
lumpkin
Really weird to trivialize this by saying that Rittenhouse used his “stimulus money” to buy the weapon. Kinda misses the point on several levels.
Jay
Jay
In moderation at #35, too many hashtags?
John Revolta
@Baud: Good
Jay
@RSA:
yeah, never read comments, there be trolls out there.
assholes too.
Wapiti
@Baud: Reminds me: there was a picture of the poisoned Russian arriving in Berlin(?) for treatment. In the foreground is a German police officer, with a black protective vest. It had some alphanumeric identifier in ~1 1/2″ white font. Something like B 123456. (The Germans have a code for cities that they use for car plates, too. B is Berlin.) I took it to be a badge number. And he didn’t have shit covering it up. We could use some readable id on our cops.
Jeffro
@Dread: But what if I want an M1 Abrams and an aircraft carrier? I’ll fight you all the way to the Supreme Court on that one, lib!
(whatever the snark tag is… //?)
Personally I think we should limit everyone to two muzzle-loading muskets.
Jay
Seems like something somebody has has been saying has made it “okay” for the far right, ( rethug mainstream) to violently attack liberals.
second shooting today, in Portland, the cops let the “suspect” brandish, shoot and assault for over 2 1/2 hours before “making an arrest”,.
Platonicspoof
Just noticed manic pillow guy is trending on twitter.
Needs more sleep?
Another Scott
@Jeffro: I’m all for letting people have access to cannons and machines guns, and tanks and flamethrowers and all the rest, as long as they’re an official part of an actual well-regulated militia, keep their arms in the town armory, attend training one weekend a month, etc., etc.
You know, like they did in ye olden times.
:-/
Grr…
Otherwise, maybe bullets should be $5,000 each…
Cheers,
Scott.
Obdurodon
The fact that Rosenbaum was no angel, and that Rittenhouse legitimately felt threatened, doesn’t really make a good argument for the gun-huggers IMO. The nature of that situation is exactly why access to such weapons should be more limited. They provide a false courage and a path to escalation that *doesn’t help* when tempers are already high. What’s the worst that would have happened if Rittenhouse had not been armed? He might have been killed? As regrettable as that might (or might not) have been, it would have been no worse than what actually did happen. More likely, somebody might have been hurt but not killed. Even more likely *by far*, he never would have had the guts to get into that confrontation in the first place. Probably would have stayed home.
There is no scenario in which his possession of a firearm improved the situation. He’s a pretty good argument *against* second-amendment extremism, precisely because he’s a confused little kid. There are a lot of those out there. By contrast, the wild-eyed fanatics are relatively rare and would be dangerous with or without firearms. Knives and bombs and poisons still exist. There are many examples of the crazies using those instead where firearms are more restricted. The main benefit of gun control is to keep them out of the hands of people who *wouldn’t be capable of much harm* without them. The people who are capable need other measures.
Bill Arnold
@Dread:
Or it was a typo, and one has a right to a stone keep (if one can afford it; one’s home is one’s castle), and to beer arms
Gin & Tonic
@Baud:
They were from the Department of Redundancy Department.
Kent
@Bill Arnold: Personally I think it would have been better if they had ‘armed bears’
Gin & Tonic
@Wapiti: His name is Alexei Navalny.
Anomalous Cowherd
@Dread:
Uh, as a farmer with animals, I much prefer putting down a sheep torn up by coyotes by using a .22 rifle. An axe ends up being extremely messy. You need to expand your “approved” list.
NotMax
@Gin & Tonic
Them again again?
WaterGirl
@Jay: yep!
craigie
@Dread:
Not disagreeing with your overall thrust, but isn’t this literally a death spiral?
Winston
Rittenhouse, fleeing the scene of murdering an unarmed man, murdering another man trying to apprehend him and firing into bystanders wounding a third man is all caught on video. His only remorse is the men he killed were white. All of this while crossing state lines with an illegal weapon. His buddy who bought him the weapon and drove him to and from the scene, and concealed the weapon in the trunk of his car after the fact is also charged with aiding and abetting. The police, who also aided and abetted these murders have not yet been charged though videos clearly show they did.
Jay
@Anomalous Cowherd:
you don’t employ Guardian Animals?
trollhattan
@Jeffro:
Let’s you and me buy the Bonhomme Richard for the scrap price and turn it into a Antifa assault ship. Comin’ for you, LaPierre!
Jay
@WaterGirl:
> than 7, < than 7? Which is the rule?
Jay
@trollhattan:
if it’s too trashed for the MIC to refurbish,……
NotMax
@Jay
7 is the border. Beyond that be dragons.
Jeffro
@Another Scott: I like the first proposal quite well and the ‘bullet tax’ even better. Let ’em make their own ammo in their militia campsites with molds handed down from the Revolutionary War ancestors, etc etc.
Jeffro
Truth. Hopefully he’ll say it on the stand. “I came to shoot some ‘looters’ and ended up killing a couple of white guys (sob)”. Would lay it out pretty plainly even for those who have a hard time keeping up.
Jeffro
@trollhattan: (LaPierre retreats to his lair inside an active volcano)
“You’ll never get me here, water-borne libtard scum!”
(we release second weapon allowed under new ‘2 weapons per person’ 2A interpretation: nuclear-powered tunnel-boring device, staffed with Austin Powers fembots*)
*to avoid any conflict with new law, BHR and tunnel device are my 2 weapons, 2 fembots are yours
“You may have avoided the impressive airpower of the Bon Homme Richard, NRA scum, but now…pew pew pew!…victory is ours! Lay down your expense accounts and come out with your hands up!!”
(LaPierre collapses, weeping)
CaseyL
On the one hand, it’s sad to see someone give themselves over to a life of evil when they’re still in their teens and barely understand what they’re doing.
On the other hand, if we are lucky, he will be convicted and imprisoned and incapable of wreaking his evil on society ever again. (Does anyone know if he’ll be tried as an adult? I sure as hell hope so: a juvie conviction gets him released in just a few years.)
Jay
And died,……
Kent
@CaseyL: He will be tried as an adult. He turns 18 on January 3rd.
Mallard Filmore
https://www.bullshido.net/anatomy-of-a-catastrophe
“… What makes the Rittenhouse incident so interesting is that virtually every expletive-laden opinion surrounding his actions and the actions of the involved parties has an objective truth at its hate-filled heart. That is a rare thing, and it baked my noodle pretty good when I noticed this ridiculous coincidence. Whatever your opinion of what happened in Kenosha, there is probably a solid factual foundation justifying it. I stewed on that for a while before a potential reason for this formed in my head. Are you ready?
Everyone involved in and around this tragedy is a fucking moron.”
CaseyL
@Kent: Good!
smike
Wait a minute, 16/17 year olds received a federal stimulus check? I did not know that.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@smike: a lot of students work after school or during the summer
Yutsano
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: If he was claimed as a dependent on his mother’s return (I have yet to see mention if she is married) then no he’s not eligible for one. I am hoping AL is just going for s turn of phrase here, as I would hope she would know better. I also have yet to see in any reports that he did any work beyond his volunteer duties* with his local police.*
*If you could call it that. I’ve seen reports he mostly just hung around with cops.
Jay
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.statesman.com/amp/115057062
like most things, it’s more complex than that.
“I got my $1,200 from the coronavirus Illinois unemployment because I was on furlough from YMCA,” he said. “And I got my first unemployment check so I was like, ‘Oh, I’ll use this to buy it.’”
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
That wasn’t Anne Laurie turning a phrase. That was the Washington Post in the screen cap/linked story.
ETA: And as Jay pointed out in #70, the word “stimulus” there is a bit misleading.
ETA 2: I also just noticed that AL put “stimulus check” in quotation marks in her post headline.
trollhattan
@Jeffro:
This can definitely work. But just in case I have a backup plan, one that involves Gamera.
SiubhanDuinne
Duplicate ETA deleted.
trollhattan
Awww, they’re so cute when they fight.
Jay
Danielx
@debbie:
If it hasn’t been pointed out…state charges, no presidential pardon available
NotMax
@Danielx
It also ought to be pointed out that even if Dolt 45 tries to pardon himself, said pardon unquestionably cannot apply to anything in the articles of impeachment which were passed by the House.
Jay
Jim Appleton
@Jay:
I’ve worked in ems, and I’ve seen Dr. Nichols interviewed.
He does a good job of forefronting our basic premise: ignore context, help the person.
He also, tragically, points out how fatigue from the stress of months of Covid response triggered him in ways he would otherwise have not noticed.
Jay
Jay
@Jim Appleton:
yeah, I work retail, then volunteer as a community medic, and am trying to come back from Covid.
the last 11 months have really taxed my generosity and tolerance.
these days I would be torn between providing aid to a Nazi, and filling their throat and nose with spray foam instead.
Jim Appleton
@Jay:
That’s not the right answer, in my humble opinion, recognizing you have a different perspective.
EMS is selfless, otherwise it’s punishment.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Trump pardoning Rittenhouse for state crimes in Wisconsin would have the same legal effect as me pardoning you for Spanish crimes in France.
Jay
@Jim Appleton:
I have had to deal daily, with “shits”, for months. 3 times so far this year I have had to deal with “shits” assaulting coworkers with physical action.
De-escalation doesn’t work on some of these people, it just feeds their anger loop.
I have had to several times, go back into the repair hood, put a shingle hatchet into my hammer loop, tell them they arn’t getting service, they need to leave, while calling “Managers” and 9/11.
I am running low on that aspect, and I fully understand why some EMS and other medical personnel are having moments of “second thoughts”.
More so because so many “shits” feel empowered to be open about it.
Amir Khalid
@Jay:
If you really do have these thoughts, and aren’t just engaging in comment-thread hyperbole, maybe you should take a step back and think about whether you should continue as a volunteer community medic. Surely you wouldn’t want ever to find yourself in two minds about whether to do what’s best for someone under your care.
Yutsano
@Jay: Ah. Enhanced unemployment. Different program just happened to line up as the same amount as the stimulus payment. So confusion is understandable. But my point is correct.
smike
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hmmmm… That might give the orange DOTARD some bigly ideas.
Jay
@Amir Khalid:
as a Community Medic, in 30 years, I have never run into a “shit”.
People with issues, but Nazis are seriously under represented in Unhoused Encampments, Social Justice Protests, and when they do show up, they get the best care KKKops and the State can provide.
”They” arn’t working 3 part time jobs, living in their car and getting 3rd degree burns because their winter propane heater keeping them alive in winter, either gave them carbon monoxide poisoning, or 3rd degree burns.
sorry to hear about your loss of Bianca. Love sucks, sometimes, but is always worth it.
Jay
Nobody in particular
@raven:
Evisceration often accompanies gunfire. Now we understand what drives McConnell to obstinately refuse to issue any further stimulus relief. He’s trying to save lives.
Mark my words. One of those idiots will play that card sooner or later.
Jay
@Amir Khalid:
ps. I never have “these thoughts”, in the moment, only afterwards.
Nobody in particular
@Kent:
13 states allow a child to be tried as an adult in capital crimes, by statute. Others leave it up to discretion, aggravating and mitigating factors, but it is, unfortunately, another example of American exceptionalism and more common than it should be.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nobody in particular: Wisconsin doesn’t have the death penalty.
Patricia Kayden
@dmsilev:
NotMax
@Patricia Kayden
“And I will prove with geometric logic the mess boys ate the
strawberriescucumbers.”//
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
good.
Jay
@Patricia Kayden:
@NotMax:
really?
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: Would not bother me if the death penalty was abolished nationwide during Biden’s term.
Cameron
Screw it. If I can get LOML on board, we’re moving back to the Old Country. I don’t need to share living space with toads like young Kyle. And there will be more of them.
NotMax
@Cameron
Ceding territory to them not copacetic.
smike
@Cameron:
Shit happens in the Old Country, too. We just have 328,000,000 people hereabouts. And media outlets eager to accentuate the macabre, hereabouts, also, too.
NotMax
@smike
Hell, it originated in the Old Country.
Mary G
Yutsano
@Mary G: Apparently there was a (sort of) earthquake in the greater LA area. If you could call it that. Although if you look around the world the Ring of Fire been busy tonight.
NotMax
@Yutsano
Haven’t had a tsunami yet this year….
smike
@NotMax:
Now you’ve done it…
NotMax
@smike
*waves*
:)
trnc
This might be nit-picking, but I don’t think he can even pardon him because there’s no federal offense. If he did write the pardon, the state could ignore it, but since DT is an attention whore and no bad act is meant to be ignored, he’d probably continually mouth off about it until the state was forced to sue the federal gov’t and get a legal ruling that a prez doesn’t have that authority.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yutsano: 2.6, you call that an earthquake, that’s someone falling out of bed.
trnc
Wouldn’t it be funny if all this backlash caused Barr to decide that the OLC memo against indicting a president was no longer binding? He could add the Ukraine investigation to Durham’s SC portfolio.
NotMax
@BillinGlendaleCA
If it’s not a quake would it qualify as an earthquisp?
:)
/showing my age
Keith P.
@Patricia Kayden: Kind of like how Steven Seagal likes carrots.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trnc: There would be no court case, this would be like me issuing a pardon.
trnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIp-0V6YKfQ
Geminid
@raven: I followed that Gardens and Guns exchange. While I tended to support your side of the argument, I did not feel like you needed help, because you were giving as good as you got. But the issue of guns- like football- can really trigger anger and intolerance in some people. I never thought that furthered reasonable gun safety measures like we just enacted in Virginia. Ultimately, I’d like to see us have a system like California’s, with each firearm individually registered, regulation of ammo purchases, with a Connecticut type ban on “assault weapons” and large magazines. But I think calls for the repeal of the 2nd Amendment generate unneccessary resistance to needed gun safety measures that we can pass now. The Heller decision is often seen as pro-gun rights because it vindicates an individual’s right to possess firearms, but I saw it as a pro-gun safety decision because it affirmed government’s right to reasonably regulate these weapons. Although outfits like the NRA push an absolutist view of the 2nd amendment, surveys show a majority of gun owners support gun safety measures. Last January when the Virginia General Assembly met to consider gun safety legislation, there were gun rights demonstrations and many counties including my own declared themselves “2nd Amendment Sanctuaries.” But this July, when the six gun safety measures actually became law, there was barely a whimper of protest. I think that was because these measures, like universal background checks, a duty to secure weapons in homes with minors, are broadly supported.
raven
@Geminid: thanks I think
Geminid
@raven: I am fairly new here, but I’ve jumped in a couple of times when I thought insecure people were being unfairly ganged up on. But you are well respected in this community, and you don’t lack the moral courage to say what you think even if it might be unpopular with some.
raven
@Geminid: Thanks for sure!
zhena gogolia
@Geminid:
Oh, so sorry I’m “intolerant” of 6-year-olds being mown down in their classroom.
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: You should be intolerant of this and other evils. Intolerance is not a bad thing in itself. But the particular conversation I referenced involved someone who felt that the very existence of a magazine called Gardens and Guns was intolerable. There’s a difference.
brantl
@Geminid: I think the “gardens” with the “guns” is a specious association, to normalize the “guns”. It’s undeniably stupid, but it’s not criminal. I think it’s important to recognize it for what is attempted.
WaterGirl
@Jay: 7 links is fine – which includes @somebodys – 8 sends you into moderation.
zhena gogolia
@brantl:
Right.
Geminid
@brantl: I understand what you are saying, but as a practical matter the existence of that magazine did not stand in the way of the gun safety legislation passed in Virginia this year, and it won’t make or break gun safety measures in the Georgia legislature next year. In fact, many if not most of it’s subscribers probably will support such legislation.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Jay:
I note that white supremacy adjacent snowflakes are up in arms.
In light of this, next time, let the nazi motherfucker die and save the resources for someone deserving.
Maybe Greenwald can provide the necessary treatment.
Matt
Imagine a burglar using this defense: “you see, I _had_ to defend myself after I broke into the house and encountered the resident!”
Other MJS
@Kent: Important point. Unfortunately, outrage triage is needed these days.