Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

People are complicated. Love is not.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

In my day, never was longer.

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

Cole is on a roll !

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Biden Soldiers Onward

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Biden Soldiers Onward

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Excellent report on an excellent strategy — read the whole thing:

… With Monday’s announcement of California Attorney General Xavier Becerra as his health secretary and a half dozen other key appointments, Biden aims to leave behind the personality dramas that sometimes flourished under President Donald Trump. He hopes to return the federal response to a more methodical approach, seeking results by applying scientific knowledge in what he says will be a transparent and disciplined manner.

“We are still going to have a federal, state and local partnership,” commented Dr. Georges Benjamin, executive director of the nonprofit American Public Health Association. “I just think there is going to be better guidance from the federal government and they are going to work more collaboratively with the states.”

In a sense, what Biden has is not quite yet a team, but a collection of players drafted for key positions. Some have already been working together as members of Biden’s coronavirus advisory board. Others will have to suit up quickly.

By announcing most of the key positions in one package, Biden is signaling that he expects his appointees to work together, and not as lords of their own bureaucratic fiefdoms.

“These are not turf-conscious people,” said Drew Altman, CEO of the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, a clearinghouse for health care information and analysis. But “it’s up to the (Biden) administration to make it an effective team.”…

But what about our attention-starved Political Horse Race touts?!?…


(I have checked carefully through my fvcks handbag, and it seems I have none left to give.)

Reader Interactions

290Comments

  2. 2.

    NotMax

    It was 40 years ago today….

    Don’t consider this to be a recommendation, rather a notation it’s there for a half hour watch for the curious.

    To mark the 40th anniversary of Lennon’s death, Hawaii News Now dug into the archives and conducted interviews with those who were there to help tell the Hawaii story of the man who killed one of the world’s biggest stars and understand the woman who has never left his side, his wife Gloria.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    In other news:

    The US supreme court is wrestling with the vexed question of whether art and other property stolen by the Nazis from Jews in Germany and Hungary can be recovered or recouped through the US courts. On Monday, the nine justices heard oral arguments in two cases.
    ……………………………………..
    Both cases will test the limits of the jurisdiction of US courts in the handling of claims that directly target foreign governments. In general, sovereign states are immune from lawsuits heard by US courts. But in 1976 Congress introduced a law known as the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA) that created an exception to such immunity in cases in which property is taken “in violation of international law”.

    In oral arguments heard over the telephone because of the pandemic, lawyers representing the German and Hungarian governments argued that the case should be dismissed because it was taking the FSIA exception too far. They warned that if the supreme court allows the reach of US courts to expand in this way, it could risk friction in foreign relations and provoke retaliatory action against the US. Several of the justices – from both the majority conservative and liberal wings of the supreme court – indicated on Monday that they were uneasy about restricting the jurisdiction of US courts in these cases. The chief justice, John Roberts, challenged the argument put forward by Germany that Congress intended the FSIA exception to relate to Soviet expropriations of property and not Nazi genocide.

    It will surprise absolutely nobody here that the trump admin thinks it’s OK if the Nazis did it:

    In a brief supporting Germany, the acting US solicitor general Jeffrey Wall argued that Nazi theft of property from Jews amounted to “domestic takings” by a government of the property of its own citizens, and therefore was not covered by the international law exception which only relates to foreign nationals.

    That reading of the law has been hotly contested.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    He hopes to return the federal response to a more methodical approach, seeking results by applying scientific knowledge in what he says will be a transparent and disciplined manner.

    aka The Democratic Way.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Not to go all both sides in you, but all administrations tend to be wary about allowing suits against foreign governments in U.S. courts.  Institutional bias.

  10. 10.

    LurkerNoLonger

    …he will recertify the presidential election results for Joe Biden after three counts of the ballots.

    Three-count: the trilogy of victory

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:Not to go all both sides in you

    I wouldn’t worry about that because it’s true. I just couldn’t resist smacking them upside the head with it.

  14. 14.

    WereBear

    This whole year has been a series of exits that just lead to more thruway.

    As a child of my times, family vacations were all about the endless highway to relative’s homes, quaint little theme parks that seem primitive now, parked submarines and national monuments, all reached by endless gray ribbons with the same Stuckey’s and weird, long-gone, burger chains the only possible stops.

    Then I lived on Long Island, where everything is endless highways to somewhere else before you can even get started. Now in Upstate New York, likewise.

    This whole year has been hungry and tired and needing a bathroom and watching the green signs for the next exit, endlessly ahead by so many miles, and with a child’s inability to even pick the exit. And even when one is taken, there is no surcease, only more high speed highway to somewhere, sometime.

    I’m finished. Let me out.

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    From the title, I thought this post might be about the Austin pick for Sec. of Defense. (A mistake, IMO, but I see that’s been thoroughly argued over in an evening thread.)

    I like Drezner’s point about Trump turning one loss into a multi-week Loserpallooza.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    ‘A nightmare’: why were an elderly black couple targeted in a shocking Texas police raid?

    While the police in Fort Worth, Texas, ransacked Nelda Price’s home, an officer directed her to put her hands together – as if she were praying – so he could restrain her with zip ties.

    “I told him, ‘I am praying. Because I don’t understand why you’re here, and I don’t know what this is about,’” Nelda told the Guardian.
    ……………………………………..
    Once Nelda and John were allowed back inside, they discovered a search warrant lying on the dining room table, allegedly connecting them to methamphetamines and narcotics trafficking.

    “We simply don’t know why the Fort Worth police department got things so terribly wrong. We only know that they did,” said Kay Van Wey, a personal injury trial lawyer representing Nelda in her lawsuit against the city.

    Fort Worth police have refused to provide Van Wey with the underlying basis for a no-knock search warrant against the Prices and told the Guardian they could not comment on pending or current litigation.

    IANAL but I wonder how much longer they will be able to withhold such evidence.

    The department has faced widespread condemnation for years because of police brutality against minority communities.

    “We certainly contend that this was not a product of an individual’s behavior, but rather the product of systemic, structural and institutional racism,” Van Wey said.

    Almost a decade ago, Fort Worth officer Jon Romer fatally shot disabled father Charal “Ra Ra” Thomas as Thomas’s children watched. Romer was only fired in 2019 after being convicted of aggravated perjury in connection to a separate beating of a young Black man.

    In 2015, officer Courtney Johnson, who later resigned, accidentally shot and injured Craigory Adams, a man with mental health issues who carefully dropped to one knee as Johnson approached him. The following year, when Jacqueline Craig called Fort Worth police for help because a neighbor had choked her young son, officer William Martin violently arrested her and her teenage daughters instead.

    After Dorshay Morris reported a domestic disturbance involving her boyfriend in 2017, police tasered her to the ground and shackled her with handcuffs. Then, last year, Atatiana Jefferson became the sixth person killed by Fort Worth officers in a matter of months when Aaron Dean shot her through a window while she was babysitting her eight-year-old nephew.

    SSDD

    “What we’re really, really asking for, is that the city take a very hard look at what happened here, and be willing to begin a dialogue with Nelda, listen to her story, and use this incident as a training example,” Van Wey said. “A way to figure out where their systems broke down, and fix them.”

  21. 21.

    Jeffro

    a ‘stronger’ federal response is coming?

    can we give this a little context, national snooze media?  Doing ANYTHING at all would be a stronger federal response.

    actually, doing nothing would be a stronger response since this maladministration has actively undermined a sane/sensible response to COVID-19 all along

  24. 24.

    Suzanne

    @WereBear:  What you described is so, so true. First of all, I have historically hated road trips for the reasons you just described. I remember being bored out of my mind as a child. Although, I did tell my husband that I was surprised by how much I enjoyed driving from Phoenix to Pittsburgh. So maybe there will be more road trips in the future. But you are correct in that everything feels interminably long. Not spectacular, nothing exciting, just long, long, long. So long that, by the time you get to where you’re going, it’s a letdown, no matter how excited you were at the beginning.

    I’m just exhausted. Mentally, spiritually, and physically, even though I just got a good night of sleep.

  25. 25.

    SFAW

    I have checked carefully through my fvcks handbag

    Can you get one of those through Amazon? Or do you have to go somewhere “high end,” like Tarzhay?

  28. 28.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Ro Khanna @RoKhanna · 20h
    Happy birthday to @ninaturner, one of the most passionate fighters for justice I know. I’m inspired by your courage to speak truth to power and your commitment to this movement.
    Who thinks Congresswoman Turner has a nice ring to it in a potentially open seat?

    “Speak truth to power” = campaign against Hillary Clinton in 2016, call Joe Biden a bowl of shit ice cream in 2020. Retweeted by Keith Ellison.

  32. 32.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Michele Goldberg at the FTFNYT

    Democrats have just won the popular vote in the seventh out of the last eight presidential elections. In the aftermath, analysts have overwhelmingly focused on what Democrats, not Republicans, must do to broaden their appeal. Partly, this stems from knee-jerk assumptions about the authenticity of the so-called heartland. But it’s also just math — only one of our political parties needs to win an overwhelming national majority in order to govern.

  36. 36.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Betty Cracker:

    (A mistake, IMO, but I see that’s been thoroughly argued over in an evening thread.)

    The consensus seems to be that criticizing Biden for any decision he makes is simply off-limits here.

  40. 40.

    debbie

    @Suzanne:

    God, me too. I always had to sit between my two brothers which only meant both of them punching me rather than reaching across.

  44. 44.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: Alas, she would have to get enough “votes” to win. In her last state wide race (Sec of State in 2014) Husted got 60.1% and she got 35.3%.

  47. 47.

    SFAW

    @Kathleen:

    Alas, she would have to get enough “votes” to win. In her last state wide race (Sec of State in 2014) Husted got 60.1% and she got 35.3%.

    But all of Husted’s votes were fraudulent!!! Maybe she can get the PA  MI  GA  AZ  OH SecState to overturn the results?

  48. 48.

    Baud

    @Kathleen: I don’t know what congressional district she’s in, but if it’s a heavily Dem district, the real contest will be the primary.

  52. 52.

    MomSense

    Almost 20 years ago, a man tried and failed to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb and we still remove our shoes in the TSA line before boarding a plane.  Then some other idiots had a ridiculous plan to create bombs with chemicals in shampoo bottles – never attempted it and it wouldn’t have worked but we still all comply with the stupid little bottles in ziploc bags.  But wear a mask when 15 million Americans have contracted COVID and 280,000 have died?  That’s going too far.  I’m so sick of this bullshit.

  53. 53.

    satby

    @Gin & Tonic: I don’t think it’s off limits so much as there’s the split between “wait and see” and “what a mistake”. Despite the fact that Biden has so far exceeded most expectations (at least if you’re not a Bernista) and that most people barely know who Austin is, other than a general.  We deride the purity leftists for adherence to ideology despite facts on the ground, and then often make the same mistake. I personally prefer a civilian in charge, but considering the damage done to *everything* by the maladministration, it may make sense to have someone with no learning curve immediately in charge to repair that damage. Obvs, I’m a “wait and see” on this.

  54. 54.

    gene108

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Democrats have just won the popular vote in the seventh out of the last eight presidential elections. In the aftermath, analysts have overwhelmingly focused on what Democrats, not Republicans, must do to broaden their appeal. Partly, this stems from knee-jerk assumptions about the authenticity of the so-called heartland. But it’s also just math — only one of our political parties needs to win an overwhelming national majority in order to govern.

    Heartland = white people, especially white men, who overwhelmingly vote Republican

  55. 55.

    WereBear

    @satby:

    considering the damage done to *everything* by the maladministration, it may make sense to have someone with no learning curve immediately in charge to repair that damage

     
    This seems to be Biden’s approach, and I like it.

  56. 56.

    Gin & Tonic

    @satby: I saw way more Dear Leaderism than wait-and-see-ism last night.

    If two Presidents in a row ask for and receive a waiver of the 7-year “civilianization” period then it is no longer law, and a President Tom Cotton can have some General resign a day before appointment as SecDef. Either we have civilian control of the military or we do not. You can’t be a little bit pregnant.

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @satby: that’s where I am. I’m persuaded by people who say a civilian should be in charge of the Pentagon, but I’m not ready to condemn Biden and Austin because Mattis was such a spectacular failure

  59. 59.

    MomSense

    @satby:

    I’m in the wait and see camp but I’m tempted to drive over to the “If Biden is still willing to take this fucking job given how fucking dire and horrible every goddamned thing is then he is getting all the support from me even if half the shit he tries fails spectacularly”

    Can any of us imagine taking a job with a company or organization that is in such terrible condition?

    Biden genuinely cares about us and wants to do his best. He’s experienced enough to know what a shitshow this is and he stays steady and focused.  Isn’t this as good as it gets at this point?  The current president has been trying to kill us and succeeding.

  60. 60.

    zhena gogolia

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Who said that? I see people saying, “I’m not going to second-guess Biden” (what I said last night), not “Don’t feel free to second-guess Biden if that amuses you.”

  61. 61.

    LurkerNoLonger

    Here’s an article that was emailed to me from the NYT. For the life of me, I’m trying to understand what the republican message that resonates. Didn’t they have no party platform this year? I don’t get it.

    The Bronx vs. Manhattan

    The Democratic Party’s biggest problem today is its struggle to win over working-class voters.

    After President Trump’s 2016 victory, some political analysts argued that this problem was really all about racism. And Trump’s appeals to white nationalism certainly won him votes.

    But it’s also clear that the Democrats’ weakness with working-class voters — defined roughly as people without a four-year college degree — is not only about race. Many Trump voters, after all, voted for Barack Obama in 2012, which suggests they’re not incorrigible racists.

    Perhaps even more telling is the shape of this year’s results. Not only did Trump again win by huge margins among working-class whites, but he also fared better among Hispanic voters than he did in 2016. Black voters strongly backed Democrats again, but their turnout appears to have risen less than turnout for other groups.

    All of which points to the same issue: The Democratic message is failing to resonate with many working-class Americans.

    If the Democrats’ struggles were really all about racism, several heavily Mexican-American counties in South Texas would not have swung to the Republicans this year. Nor would Trump have increased his vote share in the New York boroughs of Queens and the Bronx by about 10 percentage points versus 2016. He appears to have won a higher share of the vote in the Bronx, which is only 9 percent non-Hispanic white, than in affluent Manhattan, which is 47 percent white, Dave Wasserman of The Cook Political Report pointed out.

    This pattern leaves Democrats needing to attract a lot votes in traditionally Republican suburbs to win many elections. That’s a narrow path to victory. Georgia — where two runoffs on Jan. 5 will determine control of the Senate — is a good case study.

    Joe Biden was the only Democrat to win statewide this year, mostly because he made bigger gains in the Atlanta suburbs than other members of the party. Biden and other Democrats were crushed in heavily white rural areas, often winning less than 30 percent of the vote, and also fell short of their 2016 margins among Hispanic voters. “The Black share of the electorate fell to its lowest level since 2006,” according to a Times analysis of Georgia.

    How can Democrats do better with the working-class? It’s not an easy question. (Left-leaning parties in Europe are having similar struggles.)

    But there are some hints. Many working-class voters, across racial groups, are moderate to conservative on social issues: They are religious, favor well-funded police departments and support some restrictions on both abortion and immigration. On economic issues, by contrast, they tend to back Democratic positions, like a higher minimum wage and expanded government health care.

    For Democrats to do better with the working class, they probably need to moderate their liberal image on social issues — and double down on economic populism.

     

  64. 64.

    Geminid

    @Baud: I think the Nina Turner boom, such as it is, concerns Martha Fudge’s Cleveland area seat. Fudge has been mentioned as a potential Agriculture Secretary. If Fudge is not selected, the soreheads at Jerkobin Magazine will say it’s because Corporate Democrats are desperate to keep Turner out of Congress.

  66. 66.

    jonas

    @Betty Cracker: I like Drezner’s point about Trump turning one loss into a multi-week Loserpallooza.

    Has any plaintiff in US history — individual, corporate, whatever — ever been dealt a series of not just defeats in court like this, but defeats in which the judges’ rulings repeatedly let loose rhetorical broadsides that reduce the case to ashes? And then they piss on those ashes several times just to make sure they’ve made their point?

  71. 71.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Chyron HR: What term would you come up with (before you’d finished your coffee) for that 7-year statutory period which military people are supposed to go through before becoming SecDef, which is being proposed to be waived for the second appointment in a row?

    I submit one can be thankful Biden was elected and respect his judgement on most appointments while thinking that this particular one is a profoundly bad idea for a number of reasons. If that is no longer an opinion that can be expressed here, then I’ll have to go elsewhere.

  73. 73.

    germy

    @MomSense:  We are not going to have a president Tom Cotton.

    That’s what I said about Trump, though.  I actually laughed when he won the Republican nomination.

    Conservative voters, or whatever they call themselves, who knows what they’ll like in the future.  It seems they vote more against us than for anyone.

    Anyone who steps forward in 2024 and 2028 and says the right hatespeech will have their vote.  I mean, look at the evangelicals voting for Trump.

    If I put that in a novel, the editor would flag it as an inconsistent plot point.

  74. 74.

    Josie

    @satby:

    This is a good explanation of where many of us are.  I think it is borrowing trouble to be afraid of what the next wanna be dictator might do because of any precedent.  We should give Biden some space to appoint people who can fix the mess he will find in the administrative departments.  His appointments are not for life, just for the next couple of years.  Two things are so important for his choices – the ability to repair damage and Biden’s comfort level with and confidence in the person.

  75. 75.

    Aleta

    @MomSense: I was thinking last night.  Not all colonialists wanted to get rid of the king.   And not all of the people who arrived later left their king-fixation behind when they left their birth country.  Maybe there will always be humans who want to succumb to a trance in front of a fake.

  76. 76.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Gin & Tonic: If that is no longer an opinion that can be expressed here, then I’ll have to go elsewhere.

    Yes, dissent has been banned here.  I’m not really a fan of this appointment, but I don’t feel that people who aren’t thrilled by it are being jumped on.  I see much more of a “I trust Biden, his other picks have been pretty good, and I know fuck all about Austin, so I am not going to object” attitude.  YMMV and clearly seems to.

    ETA:  Being on the minority side of the consensus here can be a bit rough at times.

  77. 77.

    jonas

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t know that I would call Mattis a “spectacular failure.” Had he been serving under a normal president, as opposed to an irascible, spray-tanned dumpster fire, he probably would have done fine. As Adam has pointed out here on several occasions, his ethical commitments to maintaining the firewall between the military and politics were simply not up to Trump’s relentless onslaughts.

  78. 78.

    Geminid

    @Baud: I think Turner would lose to Fudge, maybe badly.       Turner is very popular, though, among the kind of left wingers who call Bernie Sanders a “sheep dog,” and consider Ocasio-Cortez to be a squish.

  79. 79.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: I believe she’s that deluded that she would. I’m not in her district but it appears to me that she’s very popular. In 2020 she won 80.1% of the vote. In 2018 she won 82.2%. Cue The Pures to target her for being out of step with her district.

  80. 80.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Aleta:

    The Presidency has a lot of power built in, and most have wielded it carefully – it’s the stretches that stand out.

    Lincoln took those powers to the furthest extent in our greatest national crisis, and for the most part, made good calls.

    I hate to think of what a Trump 2nd term would look like, given his willingness to take things this far in an era of relative prosperity and calm.

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: et al.,  I agree —

    The LAW is that a civilian is preferred, but Congress is empowered to vote to allow a person who has been retired for a period shorter than 7 years to serve in the Sec. of Def. position.  That is the law.  By asking for a waiver, Biden is following the friggin’ law.  he doesn’t get his way immediately, but there is a Congressional appointment backstop.

    I agree generally that a “pure?” civilian, whatever that might be? might be a better choice in regular times.  By far.  But Biden seems to want to do a few things at once — have the FIRST African American Sec. Def which these days might itself be a heavy lift with the white Republican side of the Senate.  Biden also needs to have someone he trusts to clean up the mess made by Trump.  It is possible that at this moment, someone with keen insider info. is needed.  Who knows?  Not me!

    Austin retired in 2016.  Four plus years ago, not seven.  Will the next two to three years suddenly make him a civilian?

  82. 82.

    daveNYC

    @jonas: Probably not a series of defeats like this.  I bet some SovCit types got some quality rulings handed their way, but it takes effort to get the quantity going.

  83. 83.

    zhena gogolia

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    As someone who has been truly banned from my professional listserv for fact-checking an egregious lie about a human-rights violation and who committed it, I find the suggestion that anyone is being silenced on BJ to be ludicrous. Express your opinion, and then other people get to express theirs, which might differ from yours.

  84. 84.

    germy

    I have deep respect for Gen. Lloyd Austin. We worked together when he commanded U.S. forces in Iraq, when he was vice chief of the Army, and when he was the CENTCOM commander. But choosing another recently retired general to serve in a role designed for a civilian just feels off.— Rep. Elissa Slotkin (@RepSlotkin) December 8, 2020

    The job of secretary of defense is purpose-built to ensure civilian oversight of the military. That is why it requires a waiver from the House and Senate to put a recently retired military officer in the job.— Rep. Elissa Slotkin (@RepSlotkin) December 8, 2020

    And after the last 4 years, civil-military relations at the Pentagon definitely need to be rebalanced. Gen. Austin has had an incredible career––but I’ll need to understand what he and the Biden Administration plan to do to address these concerns before I can vote for his waiver.— Rep. Elissa Slotkin (@RepSlotkin) December 8, 2020

    A good response.

  86. 86.

    jonas

    @MomSense: But what Trump embodies is the idea of governing as trolling. You don’t work with libs to find solutions to America’s domestic and international challenges, you pwn them. You threaten to lock ’em up. And there are a number of Republicans out there — maybe not Cotton; he’s too dweebish, imho — willing to jettison all pretense at having values or ideas and simply run under the promise to send all Democrats to concentration camps and replace stump speeches with firing six-shooters wildly into the air for an hour.

  91. 91.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: It’ll be interesting to see how Dems who voted against the Mattis waiver vote on this one. IMO, the principle of civilian control is important enough to warrant a no vote. It’ll also be fascinating to see how Republicans vote. I think it has to be a 60-vote majority to win? Not entirely sure though.

  92. 92.

    MomSense

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ve been on the minority side of most of the controversial arguments here: The drone wars, Libya, trigger warnings, Snowald Leaks.  I was called an authoritarian because I never fell for that scam.  I’m still here and commenting.  We are just talking to ourselves and sometimes shouting because this is the place where we disagree because we give a damn.  You are probably right about Austin – I just don’t happen to care that much (enough?) about this one.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: 

    It’ll be interesting to see how Dems who voted against the Mattis waiver vote on this one.

    Agree. I don’t know if those previous “no” votes were justified as specific to Mattis, or on the general principle.

  96. 96.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MomSense: In case I wasn’t clear, my comment about banned dissent here was sarcastic.  I have been on the minority side of many an argument in the time I have been here.

  97. 97.

    DCA

    Just to go back to the top–I love the idea of Amtrak 1. There is a nice Lincoln parallel there too.

  98. 98.

    artem1s

    @Baud:

    I don’t know what congressional district she’s in, but if it’s a heavily Dem district, the real contest will be the primary.

    since her base is mostly Kucinich leftovers and Berners, I doubt she has much chance of winning a primary. Even if she is appointed to Fudge’s seat (should it become available), she’s not likely to be able to keep it.  Turner has been burning bridges with the state and national party for too long.  She and her gang of disruptive followers just rub too many people the wrong way.

  99. 99.

    SFAW

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have been on the minority side of many an argument in the time I have been here.

    In particular, those times when you talk about the greatness of the 2020 NY Jets.

  101. 101.

    germy

    @DCA:

    Me too.   I’m a big train fan.  I’m one of those people who envisions rail service being dramatically expanded in the U.S.

  103. 103.

    MomSense

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Reverb!  All the musicians without gigs are selling their gear.  Then yesterday I got a free 90 day membership for online guitar lessons.  Apparently some of them are quite good.  So that is going in the stocking.

  104. 104.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    Meanwhile, Texas has just sued all the swing states that went for Biden in the Supreme Court.

    Also, there’ll be 10,000 fewer restaurants in this country by the end of the month while McConnell sits on relief bills.

  105. 105.

    sab

    @Baud: If she is in Marcia Fudge’s district there is no way she could even win the primary. She is a nut from Cleveland. Fudge’s district stretches from Warrenville Heights (east Cleveland suburb near Lake Erie, Fudge was mayor at one point) all the way down to northwest Akron. There are ten houses in my Akron housing development that are in that district. The rest of us have Tim Ryan. Very solidly Democratic but also fairly sensible. Turner is an embarrassment to Ohio.

  107. 107.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: FWIW the waiver vote was 81-17 in the Senate, but his confirmation vote was 98-1.  By rights, one could conclude it was principle, not the man.

  108. 108.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Baud: I don’t know if those previous “no” votes were justified as specific to Mattis, or on the general principle.

      Nicely phrased. :)

  110. 110.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @MomSense:

    I could get a 90 day set of guitar lessons from Mark Knopfler, and at the end of those 90 days I might be barely able to strum the three opening chords to “Smoke on the Water”.

    I definitely know my limitations…

  112. 112.

    TS (the original)

    @LurkerNoLonger:

    The republican message is no socialism and tax cuts. That’s all I have ever heard from them. For unknown reasons it is often sufficient to win elections.

  113. 113.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    Wonder how Ken Paxton think that’s going to go for him when this jeremiad crashes and burns?

  116. 116.

    Skepticat

    @MomSense:

    I’m in the wait and see camp but I’m tempted to drive over to the “If Biden is still willing to take this fucking job given how fucking dire and horrible every goddamned thing is then he is getting all the support from me even if half the shit he tries fails spectacularly”

    Can any of us imagine taking a job with a company or organization that is in such terrible condition?

    Biden genuinely cares about us and wants to do his best. He’s experienced enough to know what a shitshow this is and he stays steady and focused.  Isn’t this as good as it gets at this point?  The current president has been trying to kill us and succeeding.

    This.

  117. 117.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: I watched a bit of those hearings, and IIRC, the Dem senators emphasized it was the principle, not Mattis in particular. My impression was most thought Mattis would be more responsible than 99% of the people in Trump’s orbit. I think that largely proved true, though Mattis did go along with some disgraceful schemes, proving that no one’s reputation can survive working for Trump unscathed. He’s such a corrupting influence.

  118. 118.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @TS (the original):

    Tax cuts solve everything. No revenue to a business because people are disinclined to spend time among a genuinely credulous populace in restaurants, shops and groceries? A tax cut will erase that set of zeroes and replace it with something…

  119. 119.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @debbie:

    I’m inclined to say that Harris should aggressively pursue her constitutional role as Senate President. I’m not a respecter of parliamentary niceties, so regardless of such rules as are passed, I’d have her call a vote on everything- nothing gets bottled up.

    Let Turtle and his minions howl – she can say “too fucking bad – we’re voting. Line up your caucus how you like on the vote, but you’re not the president.”

  122. 122.

    Gin & Tonic

    @zhena gogolia: I can easily think of a handful of commenters who have been permanently banned, a handful more who have been temporarily banned, and quite a few who have been driven off by the “consensus.”

  123. 123.

    WaterGirl

    The Amtrak trip is a great idea.  A bonus is that Joe won’t be on a plane that all these germs COVID peeps have been using.  I wonder if that played into the decision at all.

    Stay away from Air Force One, Joe!  For a couple of weeks.  Also, do not move into the residence on day 1.

  124. 124.

    Elizabelle

    @Omnes Omnibus:   I am with you on “let’s give Biden a chance with this.  Yes, it would be far better to have civilian control.  But all the agencies may be more broken than we know, and give Biden and his team some leeway here.  They don’t yet know what they will find — or not find.”

    WRT dissent:  agree with you there, too.  There is a definite hive mind here.  It can be quite unattractive.

    I think we have way too many people with way too much time on their hands, who are pretty much saying the same thing, over and over and over.

  127. 127.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: So, up to 15 votes (Dems) on principle in the Senate.  Will that be enough to sink the waiver?

    Personally, I wish that Biden did not (have to?) make this waiver request.  But for some reason, he thinks the fight is worth the candle.  Standing by to see how it all goes.

  128. 128.

    artem1s

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It will surprise absolutely nobody here that the trump admin thinks it’s OK if the Nazis did it:   that the Roberts court is still concerned about members of the Bush Admin getting called to the Hague for war crimes.

  129. 129.

    Immanentize

    @H.E.Wolf: Tru dat.  Explains Ice Cube a bit too.  Well, that and the cash.

    Were you at the book party last night?  I thought I glimpsed you for one nanosecond.

  134. 134.

    Uncle Cosmo

    FYI it looks like Starship SN8 is set to make its 12.5 km hop today. Spacex livestream via Felix at WAI will be found very soon here.

    (ETA: Well, maybe not so very soon – “Launch time TBD.” But sometime today?!?!)

    Sounds like the trending nickname for the Starship is “Pengwing.” It does look something like a pen-gyoo-win, dunnit?

  136. 136.

    jonas

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I’m neither a lawyer nor a Senate parliamentarian, but my understanding is that while the VP is named as the president of the Senate in the Constitution, the Senate as a body gets to decide what the POTS actually gets to do. So unless the rules are changed to allow Harris to preside over regular business, she can’t just march in and take over from McConnell.

  137. 137.

    JPL

    @SFAW:  The Gestapo said they didn’t point their weapons, but the video shows them clearing pointing their weapons.    hmmm

  138. 138.

    SFAW

    @JPL:

    The Gestapo said they didn’t point their weapons, but the video shows them clearing pointing their weapons.    hmmm

    I am stunned that anyone might question the honesty of Gestapo/Stormtroopers who raided a political target’s home.

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    I want to go back  4 years and check how many of the same people saying that they want a civilian as secDef  were OMG Mad Dog Warrior Monk is so dreamy and will be a great asset to  the Clown Show Admin.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    Must share this again, because it was amusing. Parody site; a NYC architect (and friends) drew up the Trump presidential library.  The Hall of Enablers, the Alt Right Auditorium, the COVID memorial.  It’s all there.

    The parody site: https://djtrumplibrary.com

    LA Times: Who is behind the fake Trump Presidential Library website? We talk to the anonymous architect

    The site was designed by a licensed New York City architect, with the assistance of a few friends who pitched in with writing and graphic design. The architect took time out of a busy pandemic schedule to answer a few questions about the design concepts — albeit anonymously, since, gags aside, this person would very much like to continue working in the field.

  147. 147.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat:   Oh, media “betters.”  Absolutely!  I was afraid you were planning to go after BJ commenters.

    Yes, that would be interesting to see.  Do share

    ETA:  I love how someone upthread referred to the media environment as “abcess journalism.”

  151. 151.

    Elizabelle

    @Miss Bianca:   No.  I loved road trips; still do.  Open highway excites me.

    Can do without the stuffy backseat ride with two parents smoking in the front seat, though.

  152. 152.

    Patricia Kayden

    The level of absolute panic in Republicans really is remarkable. Simply losing power doesn't explain all of it. I think they're terrified because massive criminal corruption by the GOP in the last 4 years is gong to be exposed as the new administration starts turning over rocks— Greg Pinelo (@gregpinelo) December 8, 2020

  157. 157.

    Geminid

    I was interested to see comments by Senator Bill Cassidy (R-LA) regarding the nomination of Congressman Beccerra to head H.H.S.  This morning’s Politico Playbook reported Cassidy saying that while he questioned the nominee’s lack of a health care background, “I’m not going to fight [him].”      Cassidy sits on the commitee that will consider Beccerra’s nomination.

  160. 160.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jeffro:

    a ‘stronger’ federal response is coming?

    can we give this a little context, national snooze media?  Doing ANYTHING at all would be a stronger federal response.

    actually, doing nothing would be a stronger response since this maladministration has actively undermined a sane/sensible response to COVID-19 all along.

    QFT.

  162. 162.

    Matt McIrvin

    @LurkerNoLonger: Translation: “The Democrats need to get more racist and bigoted.” They claim that’s not what they’re saying and then they say it. (It’s not just racism, we need to be anti-woman and anti-transpeople too.)

    We know this is the way Republicans win elections. We don’t avoid this because we’re stupid, it’s because we ethically can’t use it (and it probably wouldn’t work for us anyway when the uncut product is around).

  163. 163.

    Miss Bianca

    @Elizabelle:

    I think we have way too many people with way too much time on their hands, who are pretty much saying the same thing, over and over and over.

    Do you count yourself as one of them, or are you more inclined to imagine yourself in the role of feisty contrarian?

  164. 164.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Miss Bianca:

    For me, a road trip was a rare treat. We didn’t own a car, and after my grandfather died in 1947, there was nobody in our family who knew how to drive. We mostly walked or took the “L” wherever we needed to go. Once in a long while, my grandmother would hire a taxi for the afternoon and Mr Kimball would drive us around all the Chicago suburbs for about four hours on a Sunday afternoon, just randomly, no destination nor route in mind. I was nearly 30 before I took driving lessons and got my license. Today (well, in the Before Times), I love taking long solitary road trips. Hope to be able to do more once Covid is in the rear-view mirror.

  166. 166.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: I get pied a lot for expressing pessimism; I have no problem with that, I do the same thing to more egregiously gloomy people elsewhere when I just can’t mentally take what they’re producing (e.g. many of the commenters on LGM). People will read what they want to read and nobody owes me a hearing. But nobody banned me.

  177. 177.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: FTR I’ve already had a character named after me in a novel released by a reputable mainstream publisher. When I was a book reviewer in the 1970s I panned a debut novel. About a year later my editor passed along a review copy of the author’s next effort – he didn’t want me to review it but he thought I’d like to have a copy – because the first character murdered was my very-near-namesake**. I was more amused than disturbed – it struck me as a clever way to push back on a less-than-fulsome evaluation from a less-than-impressed critic.

    ** Hispanicized given name, otherwise identical. Maybe the slight alteration was necessary to avoid legal issues.

  178. 178.

    WaterGirl

    @Gin & Tonic:

    The consensus seems to be that criticizing Biden for any decision he makes is simply off-limits here.

    I don’t think that’s the consensus, but it definitely seemed like that was being posited last night. I really hope that didn’t take.

    There’s a difference between concern trolling – which to me is nicer is under-handed trash talking of a candidate someone doesn’t like to begin with – and sincere discussion of individual concerns about someone that you generally support.

  180. 180.

    raven

    @Baud: whatever,   just spare me this

     

    “I find the suggestion that anyone is being silenced on BJ to be ludicrous.”

  181. 181.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @WaterGirl:

    This is probably aimed at me. Let me clarify. Pre-inauguration criticism bugs ME. I find I have very little tolerance for reading or hearing it. So my statement that “personally I intend to wait until at least Jan 21 or 22 to decide an appointment is terrible” is a statement about ME. Nobody else.

    Specifically, I’m willing to give Biden and his team the benefit of the doubt that they know what they’re doing. Again, a statement about ME.

    I make no judgments on the rest of you jackals. I’m perfectly willing to accept a consensus that I am weird / an idiot / an asshole.

    Edit: I will submit however that the reaction to my statements shows me that we’re all a little prickly and over-sensitive, rubbed raw in different ways by the last four years and not yet healed.

  182. 182.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Well Momsense and I are not Trumpers. I will give you an example, I have been called all kinds of names here for disagreeing with the majority of FPers and commenters that Elizabeth Warren was the dream candidate that many here thought she was

    The attacks were personal.

  183. 183.

    O. Felix Culpa

    We are a liberal blog, no? That suggests agreement on foundational values, in the main, with room for disagreement on particulars of an issue.

    As for yesterday’s discussion on Biden’s DoD appointment, I saw a number of posters – including two front-pagers – questioning the wisdom of appointing a career military person to the post, citing (mostly) reasonable reasons. I also saw a number of posters supporting Biden’s decision, for other (mostly) reasonable reasons. There were few if any ad hominems, so I viewed it as an interesting and generally respectful discussion of differing viewpoints. A successful interchange in the best spirit of BJ, IMO.

    ETA: To ceci’s point, the past four years have been traumatic and we’re all rubbed raw. A little kindness and forbearance with one another might be a mitzvah in these rough, transitional times.

  187. 187.

    Geminid

    While people here will vehemently disagree on some issues, there seems broad agreement on others. During this past primary season I used to get a kick out of how jackals would bark at one another about the merits and demerits of their favored candidates, but then turn in unison and bark and snarl when some Bernie supporting stray showed up.

  189. 189.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @WaterGirl:

    My wife always had nice, medium length nails and a good arm reach. She was great at reaching back to grab little legs. As they got older, they realized that the smart play was to make a beeline for the rearmost seat in the minivan.

    As for me, I simply punished the one who told on anyone else, for anything. Eventually, they learned to not come to me with that idiocy.

  192. 192.

    The Moar You Know

    “I find the suggestion that anyone is being silenced on BJ to be ludicrous.”

    @raven: I’ll lay it down.  You may get the entire commentariat jumping on you and telling you you’re an asshole.  That happens a lot.  You, me, lotta people.

    That is NOT the same as what will happen if you go over to our buddy Pat Lang’s place and post that the election was legitimate.  That will be “getting silenced”.  Perhaps for real if they figure out your home address.

  193. 193.

    WaterGirl

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I submit one can be thankful Biden was elected and respect his judgement on most appointments while thinking that this particular one is a profoundly bad idea for a number of reasons.

    If that is no longer an opinion that can be expressed here, then I’ll have to go elsewhere.

    For what it’s worth, I wholeheartedly agree with the first sentence.

    I also agree with your second sentence – but I don’t think for a minute that that kind of sentiment can no longer be expressed here.

    Everybody is wound up, and 10 people saying something similar can feel like “everyone”, even when that’s not remotely the case.

  196. 196.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @O. Felix Culpa: I saw a number of posters – including two front-pagers – questioning the wisdom of appointing a career military person to the post, citing (mostly) reasonable reasons.

    Cheryl Rofer. Who is damned smart and knows a lot more about everything than I do. It’s a foundational concept of our democracy that the military is under civilian control. I think those are valid concerns, and I agree with the critiques that there is cause for concern.

    Νevertheless, that is what the appointment is, and I’m willing to abide for a bit and see how Biden’s team performs on the job. Again, I will operate on the assumption till proven otherwise that he knows what he’s doing and had a reason for the appointment.

  199. 199.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: Right, not so much for having a minority opinion as for spamming every thread with it and behaving in a harassing manner. I remember the days when every single thread here turned into a mass argument with BiP over Ukraine.

  204. 204.

    StringOnAStick

    @raven: There’s another person who was banned that no one seems to remember. I ran into him at Steve M’s place and was hoping he’s be back but he hasn’t been yet. I have pie’d the asshole who’s savage attack precipitated it all, but only after he threatened me with a “you’re next”, which flew right under the radar with the PTB here so Some threats are apparently ok.  Since all that happened I comment less and mainly come here to read the Covid posts, Adam’s and Cheryl’s but this sure doesn’t feel like home anymore.

  205. 205.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I think pretty much everyone wants medical workers to get the vaccine first–that’s only logical. The big question is who is second in line after them–elderly, especially in nursing homes, or non-medical in-person essential workers? I hope the question is going to be moot pretty soon.

  207. 207.

    frosty

    @Miss Bianca: No, I liked road trips and still do*. We take one every year.

    * although on our family National Lampoon Vacation road trip (cross country and back in 3 weeks) I was reduced to reading my sister’s Bobbsey Twin books to stay occupied through the Plains.

  209. 209.

    germy

    Since we’re Talking Shop, where are all the RW trolls?

    This is the only blog I’ve ever seen where the comment section is free of trump supporters stirring shit.

    No registration necessary here, comments go up without taking four days to be moderated… where are the real trolls?

    Did you jackals scare them all away?  I remember truckloads of cash a few years ago, but that was pretty much it.

  214. 214.

    raven

    @StringOnAStick: The only thing I reacted to was ““I find the suggestion that anyone . . .”.  It’s like LBJ, when I see him I say fuck LBJ. If I read “for the most part no one” then I’m cool but ‘anyone”. Sorry.

  216. 216.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @StringOnAStick:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    What would you like to see here? Serious question. I care for your opinions and would like to know what would make the place better in your view.

    ETA: if I could have one wish, it would be to have ABL back as a front-pager.

  218. 218.

    frosty

    @schrodingers_cat: I got on the wrong side of commenters declaring all cops were evil. Those attacks were personal as well, since they were attacks on family members.

    I no longer engage with these assholes, but I’m not leaving B-J because of it.

  223. 223.

    WaterGirl

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  I was surprised by how strongly you felt about this topic last night, but my comment wasn’t aimed at you.

    I strongly disagreed with the “pre-criticism” comment last night, but I don’t recall who actually made that comment.

    Both of my sisters, and some of their kids, are terrible grudge-holders.  Thankfully, I hit the jackpot and did not inherit that gene.

    We are all wound up.  Nearly all of us, anyway.  I’ll take that as a sign that we all feel a tiny bit less under siege or we wouldn’t have the luxury of arguing about stuff like this.

  224. 224.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Miss Bianca: I enjoyed those family road trips in theory–they’d always seem exciting when you first started out–but inevitably there would come a time when my sister and I got bored and started fighting in the back seat. You take the bad with the good, I suppose.

    Most years, we’d do one in the summer where we’d drive from NoVa up to the Poconos to visit my mother’s family, and sometimes stop at Hersheypark or the Gettysburg historic site along the way. Every five years or so, we’d fly out west to visit my dad’s family in Nebraska, which could involve a monotonous drive across the plains from Denver to the Panhandle.

    In 1982, we did the trip to Nebraska as an epic road journey, with stops at a family reunion in Iowa and various attractions along the way–we hit the Knoxville World’s Fair on the way back. Memories to last a lifetime, but not all the adventures were pleasant and it sure wasn’t something you’d do every year.

  226. 226.

    The Moar You Know

    I harass him all the time. He doesn’t post it but I know he reads it.

    @raven:  Good.  Someone needs to tell him he’s an asshole.

    I can’t do it.  I think he’s deep in the throes of either senility or mental illness.  Or both.  He’s abandoned any pretense of either rational thought or human decency and needs to close that goddamn viper’s nest he calls a website and get the fuck off the internet.

    He had a good reputation as an honest broker and teller of truths and he has destroyed it more thoroughly than any person I’ve ever seen.  It would be tragic if he hadn’t become so completely awful.

  228. 228.

    zhena gogolia

    @raven:

    Who has silenced you? It seems to me you’re still quite vocal.

    Why are you such a jerk to me? I’ve always been kind to you, as I recall.

  229. 229.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: 

    I think there’s some legitimacy to the notion bruited here (by Adam, I think, among others?) that Biden’s first picks for cabinet positions are going to be basically two-year appointments. First two years to cleanse the Augean stable filth and get the departments into something like working order again. From that perspective, I’m not sure that Austin would be a bad pick. I guess that puts me in the “wait and see” camp, altho’ generally speaking I agree with the perspective (also Adam’s, among others) that the DoD secretary should be a civilian.

  232. 232.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t disagree. I suspect that the spate of respite posts came because of Trump exhaustion. One couldn’t have reasonable policy discussions because, well, there were no reasonable policies. Just outrage after outrage, which gets exhausting and unproductive. Maybe we can return focus to politics and policy once Biden is inaugurated.

  233. 233.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Geminid: It can be weird sometimes to see people who are not Very Online chime in on figures who I mostly know as the focus of giant fights on Twitter, and display perspectives that I never even knew existed. I just saw an analysis of Biden’s Cabinet picks that described Neera Tanden as a progressive favorite of the Bernie wing, and my immediate reaction was “WHAAAAT???? They all think she’s the Antichrist!!!” but maybe that’s really just a Very Online/Greenwald-Tracey-Stoller kind of thing.

  234. 234.

    raven

    @zhena gogolia: You and I have ZERO to do with this conversation and I had ONE disagreement with you and have not said shit to you since. You need to check yourself out.

  236. 236.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @O. Felix Culpa: Yes, what could anyone say about Trump that we hadn’t already said? Now, we have policy and personnel questions that are starting to emerge.  And one can support Biden in general while disagreeing on a specific policy or personnel choice.  For example, under Obama, Arne Duncan was a terrible choice and most education policy was at best mediocre, and yet I was still pretty much an Obot.

  237. 237.

    Immanentize

    @germy: The odd thing here is that Ellis said she had COVID back in June.  Not then, now?  Not now, then?  Neither?  Both?

    The scariest possibility is “both.”

  238. 238.

    Low Key Swagger

    Delurking because “group” think is prevalent here.  For over sixteen years I have learned here from smart commenters and Front Pagers.  I have had my positions challenged, and my mind changed.  I am well aware that this has been a tough year, physically, emotionally, spiritually.  I understand the desire to come here and be surrounded by like minded people, because it’s been a part of my daily routine.  That said, it isn’t the differences of opinion that cause problems for me…it’s the horribly rude dismissals from those who, by virtue of their Jackal pedigree, feel justified in telling someone to “fuck-off” because their position has been challenged.  There are days I read the comments and see the same disturbing trends I’ve seen on right-leaning sites for decades.  We are supposed to be allies, and we can and should have vigorous debate over issues that affect our lives without making it personal.  I am not thin-skinned but stopped commenting because I did not care to have to return fire because that sort of nonsense derails every thread.  It drives away voices we may need to hear.  Still love this place, that’s why I spoke up.  Proceed….

  244. 244.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: Arne was horrible.  As was Rahm.  Let neither darken the doors of The Biden admin.

    PS. Austin’s appointment is still not yet confirmed by the campaign (has it today)?  Just Politico.

  246. 246.

    StringOnAStick

    @O. Felix Culpa: The personal attacks should stop, meaning the ones are well above and beyond just simple disagreement and sniping.  There’s one guy here who really seems to revel in his verbose attacks and generally being an asshole in top of disagreeing with someone.  If I say his name in sure he’ll come after me again, but it shouldn’t be hard to figure out, just wait and you’ll see it soon enough.

    Raven made buddies with the pro fisherman guy as did I though his writing style turned people off so he got hounded out but only after an absolutely savage attack from that guy that made my late night eyes bug out when I read it.  The victim over responded and got crosswise with several PTB and he was banned.  As far as I can tell he was the only non RW troll or violence porn addict that has happened to here, but nothing happened to the guy who launched that truly savage attack on him.  He did the  same though not as savagely to a guy who ID’d as a new reader and poster, and when that guy directly asked why he was being such an asshole and said he was never coming back here then several people asked him to reconsider and stay.  He’s never been back so another member of this club was turned off by that Uncle guy.

    Done, now I’ll go away for awhile; there’s far too much to do now.  I read everything when I was recovering from each knee replacement, but it’s too much to do and still have a life in meatspace.

  249. 249.

    cain

    @Baud:

    Can’t wait for what the AG of those swing states are going to say? Who was that one guy who was snarking at Texas AG back in November? (Boy that seems so long ago)

  252. 252.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It is a limited resource at the moment, so my vote is for the in-person essential workers to come after the medical providers.

  253. 253.

    Amir Khalid

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Ted & Hellen (among many other nyms) was a portrait artist, and John Cole commissioned from him a group portrait of The Grateful Dead — which Cole then featured in an “Artists Among us” post. You may remember that T&H’s thing was comments that were very offensive and/or abusive toward other commenters; I’ve always wondered why Cole let him get away with it for so long.

  255. 255.

    cain

    @Elizabelle:

    That’s pretty much true for any digital community. I’ve been part of online communities since the mid 80s (with modems, BBSs, compuserv etc) and you get the hive mind all the time.

    The symptom is that if you there are too many like minded people we get silo’d. The solution is greater diversity of thought. Back in the early days we had a lot of diversity – and y’alls were not nearly as vicious as it was back then interestingly enough.

  256. 256.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @StringOnAStick: I’ve been on the receiving end of that individual’s unwarranted ire too. It’s unpleasant, to say the least, so I hear you. I don’t know if there’s a fix for nasty ad hominem attacks. Like you, I have also witnessed other jackals coming to the attackee’s defense, which is nice.

    I wish you a speedy recuperation. I have been requested to mail the family favorite Christmas cookies to son #1, so I’m off to baking in meatspace. Take care!

  257. 257.

    different-church-lady

    Congratulations to Joe Biden for his 6-0 unbeaten winning streak of winning Georgia in 2020.

    If he wins Georgia that seventh time, it puts him on target for 402 electoral votes.

  259. 259.

    cain

    @schrodingers_cat:

    It’s awesome! Coming by train shows a commitment to having a train infrastructure. I’ve loved trains all my life. Used to travel by 2nd coach in India all the time.Got grit in my hair at the end of the journey haha :-) Hours and hours watching the window – briefly connecting with the people through smiles, gestures, and eye contact and then gone again.

  261. 261.

    burnspbesq

    @L85NJGT:

    The Texas AG is under federal indictment.

    Last I checked, being under investigation is nor the same as being under indictment. The pending securities-fraud case is state, not Federal.

    if you can link to a Federal indictment, please do.

  266. 266.

    cain

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I think it would be nice to figure out how to make this place a bit more welcoming. Politics can really bring out our worst side since politics are pretty personal things for most people. But it is worth checking yourselves before putting in that snarky comment.

    We could practice by not being bent out of shape by Berneristas who provoke on purpose.

  267. 267.

    JAFD

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I have hung around science fiction fandom long enuf that two writers have used my name for characters in their books.

    Both these characters died unpleasantly before the end of the volume.

  268. 268.

    J R in WV

    @LurkerNoLonger:

    …For Democrats to do better with the working class, they probably need to moderate their liberal image on social issues — and double down on economic populism.

    The N Y Times remains famous for their support of fascism in America, and lack of support for actual democracy.

    They never mention the ongoing propaganda effort to demonize Demonrats, aka Democratic party members, who are portrayed by actual news media outlets as baby-killing monsters willing to BBQ babies in the backyard for a picnic.

    Perhaps the Times reporters are actually ignorant of that propaganda campaign, and are not competent enough at research to discover it. More likely the Times fully supports those creating and running the propaganda campaign at the management level, and will never allow any mention of the vile lies propagated across the Internet about the Democratic party. And the willingness of Republicans to believe outrageous lies about their next door neighbors.

  270. 270.

    AWOL

    @raven: You tried silencing me by bullying. And for the most part, you succeeded. I’ll lurk, but your attitude has ensured I’ll never contribute a dime to this blog directly nor buy a calendar. I’ll contribute via BJ/Act Blue to some candidates. I wont pie you because you often have relevant things to say. I imagine the reason you attack people for no reason is that you are alone and in pain.

  276. 276.

    NotMax

    re: above

    Came this close to leaving* due to the seemingly endless litany of more and more pernicious (and even unto outright bizarre) “We’re doomed!” Chicken Little-ism and repetitious eruptions of Captain Bringdown drive-bys for months pre-election in thread after thread after thread.

    *Cue chorus of “Not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

    ;)

  277. 277.

    Connor

    @artem1s:

    since her base is mostly Kucinich leftovers and Berners, I doubt she has much chance of winning a primary. Even if she is appointed to Fudge’s seat (should it become available), she’s not likely to be able to keep it.  Turner has been burning bridges with the state and national party for too long.  She and her gang of disruptive followers just rub too many people the wrong way.

    No one in Ohio with the authority to appoint her would be foolish enough to do so. I hope. I’ve had direct business dealings with Ms. Turner, and the experience made clear that she doesn’t actually walk her talk.

  282. 282.

    J R in WV

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I submit one can be thankful Biden was elected and respect his judgement on most appointments while thinking that this particular one is a profoundly bad idea for a number of reasons.

    I have to agree with those who are disappointed by this appointment. Surely there are civilian experts in global strategy and military readiness who aren’t owned and operated by the Military-Industrial Complex, a term brought into common use by Republican president Eisenhower.

    Being part of a military hierarchy for your whole working career is NOT a way to learn  how to challenge bad ideas proposed by your civilian boss, the Commander in Chief. Others have said so, I’ll me-too that thought. But Joe Biden is NOT iDJT and won’t fire someone for a disagreement over policy. I think that will be made clear early on, and will make it easier for even a General (ret) to disagree with the CiC. Hoping so, anyhoo!

    I’m not going to call for Biden to step down after this appointment, though. I actually doubt the McConnell wing of our polity will allow the time-limit restriction to be waived, so as to slap Biden in the face first thing.

    Who knows? Strange times we’re in for sure! Lots of great songs about strange times, from blues to R&R, never have we had it this strange, tho!

  283. 283.

    Bill Arnold

    @The Moar You Know:

    That is NOT the same as what will happen if you go over to our buddy Pat Lang’s place and post that the election was legitimate.

    I spent quite a bit of time in the GWBush era commenting as an earnest, carefully-arguing lefty on a fewer of the smarter RW places. The treatment was often really harsh, but they mostly actually appreciated the pushback. Even got one to retract a post because it was provably comparing apples and radishes.
    The Trump/current era is different; right wing people are considerably less tolerant of/less willing to contemplate non-radical-RW-positions, with more threats of violence, as you say.

  286. 286.

    Bill Arnold

    @The Moar You Know:
    I’ve been assuming that since RG was admitted to Georgetown University Hospital, that there was a strong possibility that he was getting those sweet Regeneron anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies via an IV infusion. (Emergency use authorization Nov 21, which means that it is easier to get than when DJT got the treatment.)
    He did have a serious coughing spell a few months ago (in an interview or two); was wondering if he had it at the time and was wondering how he didn’t get it from e.g. DJT.

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