Skepticism of science
Impatience with health restrictions
Prioritization of personal politics
Undisciplined communications
Chaotic management
Indulgence of conspiracies
Magical thinking
Turf warsThe inside story of how we got to the dark winter of covidhttps://t.co/PD0tbHHsJw
— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) December 19, 2020
I keep stockpiling stories too long for the daily link-aggregations, because there’s just *too much news* every damned day. But this Washington Post story is well worth the click (hell, the subscription, if you can get one) — “The inside story of how Trump’s denial, mismanagement and magical thinking led to the pandemic’s dark winter”:
… After their warnings had gone largely unheeded for months in the dormant West Wing, Deborah Birx, Anthony S. Fauci, Stephen Hahn and Robert Redfield together sounded new alarms, cautioning of a dark winter to come without dramatic action to slow community spread.
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, among the many Trump aides who were infected with the virus this fall, was taken aback, according to three senior administration officials with knowledge of the discussions. He told the doctors he did not believe their troubling data assessment. And he accused them of outlining problems without prescribing solutions.
The doctors explained that the solutions were simple and had long been clear — among them, to leverage the power of the presidential bully pulpit to persuade all Americans to wear masks, especially the legions of Trump supporters refusing to do so, and to dramatically expand testing…
Trump went days without mentioning the pandemic other than to celebrate progress on vaccines. The president by then had abdicated his responsibility to manage the public health crisis and instead used his megaphone almost exclusively to spread misinformation in a failed attempt to overturn the results of the election he lost to President-elect Joe Biden.
“I think he’s just done with covid,” said one of Trump’s closest advisers who, like many others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity to candidly discuss internal deliberations and operations. “I think he put it on a timetable and he’s done with covid. . . . It just exceeded the amount of time he gave it.”…
The catastrophe began with Trump’s initial refusal to take seriously the threat of a once-in-a-century pandemic. But, as officials detailed, it has been compounded over time by a host of damaging presidential traits — his skepticism of science, impatience with health restrictions, prioritization of personal politics over public safety, undisciplined communications, chaotic management style, indulgence of conspiracies, proclivity toward magical thinking, allowance of turf wars and flagrant disregard for the well-being of those around him.
“There isn’t a single light-switch moment where the government has screwed up and we’re going down the wrong path,” said Kyle McGowan, who resigned in August as chief of staff at the CDC under Redfield, the center’s director. “It was a series of multiple decisions that showed a lack of desire to listen to the actual scientists and also a lack of leadership in general, and that put us on this progression of where we’re at today.”…
debbie
I love how hard he’s sold vaccines, but refuses to get one himself. If that’s not Trump in a Nutshell, I don’t know what is.
germy
I suppose this is why so many of his followers are invested in the “this virus isn’t really a big deal” narrative.
frosty
Subscription: If you have Amazon Prime, the WaPo comes with it. Works for the whole family, too. I’m reading it using Ms F’s Prime account.
Now, whether we should be buying all this stuff from Amazon is another discussion.
Another Scott
@debbie: Donnie has worked to break the USA from the beginning. Nothing about this story (excerpts) is surprising to me. Even Woodward’s quotes weren’t surprising, except to the extent that he expressed understanding…
Donnie is a malevolent force, not a disinterested one. It has been 5+ years and too much of the press still doesn’t get it.
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
@frosty: Huh, my wife has a prime acct. How’s it work?
frosty
@OzarkHillbilly: I think you log into the Post with the Prime login and password. I would try it right now, but if I screw it up and she gets locked out there will be hell to pay. :-)
I see her name in the upper right corner.
Luciamia
The whole herd immunity tact was perfect for Trump. He didn’t have to actually DO anything: just let people get sick and have God sort them out!
MattF
That quote:
Only nine different ’causes’ of Trump’s failure to deal with COVID. And, yeah, I do understand why writers (and editors) end up doing this. And, yeah, they left out ‘psychopathic liar and malignant narcissist’.
Punchy
When the default setting is “All bad news is only meant to purposely hurt Dear Manchild”, this is the response you’ll get to objective, reasoned projections. I hope Meadows is haunted by at least 100,000 ghosts of COVID causalties for the rest of his life.
OzarkHillbilly
@frosty: Thanx, I’ll have to see if she will trust me with the keys to her account.
WaterGirl
@frosty: I think that even with Prime the Washington Post subscription costs a token amount of money. I seem to recall $4 but I don’t remember what time period that covered
I googled amazon prime washington post, and it does look like you can get 6 months for free. That’s a different deal than the $4 one that I subscribed to.
Keith P.
@frosty: So that explains why I can use my Fire tablet to read WaPo articles when the web site paywalls me. Neato!
Villago Delenda Est
Well, solutions that involved no work on his part, of course, because aside from being a treasonous fascist shit, he’s also lazy.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
How does this dear little idiot brush his teeth and not drown?
Punchy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I think the statement in the first line of that blockquote could have been uttered in late April….
SFAW
Back in the day, the USofA would consider someone who actively* tried to hurt his populace as a criminal of some sort. Maybe a war criminal, even though no ordnance/munitions was used (that we know of)?
*Yeah, I meant actively. In addition to his fucking over of Blue states vis-a-vis preventing them from getting PPE, I believe someone who does not take the known-and-necessary steps/actions to try to slow/minimize the deaths has moved from passive to active.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MattF: It does sound like a lot of words from the writer just to say “fucking incompetent”.
I gather 4/chan was pushing Trump because they thought it would be hilarious putting a buffoon in charge of the country. I hope quite a few of those fuckers are suffering now.
frosty
@WaterGirl: You’re right, recalling the bank statements, we do pay something for the Post, but it’s less than the regular subscription, AFAIK.
Sorry for any confusion!
SFAW
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Which was ZERO, outside of his ranty “updates” and his getting Jared to steal PPE, etc.
debbie
@germy:
Like slowly lowering a frog into boiling water. Bits of lies leading up to the whopper.
Cathie from Canada
And still, with all this, America came within 65,000 votes of reelecting Trump.
debbie
@Another Scott:
Back in Trump’s early days, the New York press really only found him amusing. I think that’s where it began and why media has been so late (too late) to pivot.
mrmoshpotato
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
“It just exceeded the amount of time he gave it.”…
Wow. Just fucking wow.
“Waaaahhhhh!!!!! Playing president is too hard now!” whined the traitorous orange Soviet shitpile mobster manbaby.
West of the Rockies
Am I being CT-ish to wonder if Trump ever really even had C19? He was in the hospital for, what, 3 days, and then in really short order was back to mucking about with some lingering throat clearing at worst.
debbie
@Cathie from Canada:
When Joe won by 7,000,000? ??♀️
frosty
@frosty: Wow, was I confused. It’s through an Apple account, not Prime, and runs $6.35 a month. Sorry for the disinformation. I’d better make more coffee.
mrmoshpotato
@Cathie from Canada:
Yup. I think it was Laurence Tribe who posted that break down on Twitter. And Dump lost the popular vote thus time by 7 million+. Good god.
sdhays
@mrmoshpotato: I can’t even get surprised or mad about it anymore. It’s who he is, and we’ve known that all along.
I’m still angry and stunned at how many people can see this happening in front of their own eyes and remain impervious to reality. The country needs to be de-cultified, and I’m not sure how we do it. Other than win elections, but that’s looking to be a longer, harder slog than I was hoping it would a few short years ago.
West of the Rockies
@Cathie from Canada:
Well, CfromC, American Stupids are reeeeally stupid! Nobody puts our Stupids in a corner.
Amir Khalid
I beg to differ. It has never been Trump & His Cronies vs. The Virus. That crew has always been pro The Virus.
SFAW
@debbie:
Yep. Flipping 65,000 in (I think) GA, AZ, WI, maybe one other would have put the EV at 269-269.
Disclaimer: I am just repeating (sort of) what I’ve seen in a few places, so my states/numbers may be off.
debbie
@SFAW:
Thanks.
Matt McIrvin
@West of the Rockies: It’s worth wondering about, but I think it’s unlikely just because that kind of elaborate fraud with a first act involving personal humiliation to Trump is not the kind of lie Trump tells. It involves too much planning and long-term thinking. He has to be the greatest, the healthiest, the strongest at all times.
I think it’s most likely that the antibody treatment genuinely helped him and the massive doses of steroids papered over what was left. And they may well have been lying to underplay his symptoms for a while afterward.
Also, given the way the administration leaks, I’d have expected people to be leaking about it. The fraud would have required a lot of cooperation from doctors at Walter Reed, other White House staff, etc.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: We’re a republic, not a democracy.
rikyrah
It was deliberate malice.
Period ?
Kristine
@frosty:
From what I could see, digital is free for a month. Then it converts to a Kindle paid subscription. Maybe you get a reduced rate?
rikyrah
@Another Scott:
They don’t want to get it, because they would have to do their phucking jobs and wouldn’t be able to both sides it. They spent this time trying to normalize him?
Matt McIrvin
@SFAW: Paul Campos has been making that point over and over. In terms of votes required to flip the result, Biden’s win was actually a nearer thing than Trump’s in 2016, even though Biden was 7 million up in the PV and Trump was 3 million down. That’s how skewed the Electoral College system is right now–effectively it’s spotting the Republicans something like 5-6 million votes.
RSA
@MattF: And then there’s this:
I’m gobsmacked.
frosty
@OzarkHillbilly: I’ve heard this before, and I don’t get it. A republic is when you elect representatives to work for you, instead of direct democracy where all of us would vote on policies and legislation – totally unworkable.
I don’t think the Electoral College is either one of these. Seems to me it’s more like federalism, where the states are sovereign. If I’m wrong can someone give me an explanation?
SFAW
@Cathie from Canada:
Something I’ve said before: I think the MSM — were they a functional press — should investigate what voter fraud was perpetrated by the Rethuglicans. Focus on FL, NC, TX — places where polling had Biden ahead or at least closer than the results indicated. Even if there was no active fuckery by the Rethugs, it would put them on the defensive.
The potential side benefit is the same Rethugs who trashed Krebs might now use him as an “expert witness” to show “no fraud, no fraud!!”
rikyrah
@MattF:
The Woodward tapes told us one thing
HE KNEW ABOUT THE EXACT ISSUES WITH THE VIRUS.
THIS WAS NEVER ABOUT NOT UNDERSTANDING THE SCIENCE.
IT?WAS? DELIBERATE ? MALICE ?
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: hahaha It’s still a form of democracy. I love saying that to wingnuts
JPL
@rikyrah: trump is an evil man, who doesn’t care about life except his own.
BR
It’s been remarkable to see the degree to which this pandemic has been predicted by the movie Contagion:
And now we can add number 7: a new mutation that increases the R0 spread rate of the virus — something they anticipated in the movie — like what we’re seeing in the variant causing UK travel bans right now…
Amir Khalid
@rikyrah:
You are absolutely right.
mrmoshpotato
via Karoli
rikyrah
@SFAW:
Begin in Florida, where over a minimum HALF MILLION VOTERS were disenfranchised because of a POLL TAX.
You can work your way down from there?
Kristine
@OzarkHillbilly: There’s a page in the Prime section of the ‘zon site listing magazines and newspapers–look for Prime Member Exclusive Magazine Offers. You can subscribe at reduced rates for national and regional papers. They offer free trials , then lower rates.
OzarkHillbilly
@frosty: It’s the Republican’s one size fits all excuse for keeping things they way they are. It doesn’t matter that it makes absolutely no sense what so ever, it’s the finger on the scale in their favor and they are loath to have any of them removed.
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL: Yep, supposed to be a democratic republic, they have a hard time wrapping their heads around that concept.
Auntie Anne
@WaterGirl: yes. Prime gets you 6 months free, then it’s 3.99/mo. You want to login through Amazon.
You can also share your subscription with one other person.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kristine: Thanx.
Wapiti
@BR: Yeah, when there are a huge reservoir of infected carriers, I guess we can expect the virus will have more mutations than if we had kept it in check. More mutations mean more chances for a beneficial (for the virus) mutation.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Cathie from Canada:
Canada isn’t immune from this type of shit, just so you’re aware
SFAW
@RSA:
Hmm, is a puzzlement, yes? How about:
Doing a full-court press to get testing rates up to 10 Million per day, none of this (maybe) one Mill/day bullshit
Using the Defense Production Act to get masks and other PPE made at a rate of 50 Million per day (until such time as the stockpiles are overflowing)
Bringing in someone who knows and understands complex logistics (which I think was Robert Fucking McNamara’s expertise in WW2)
Having the Murderer-in-Chief use the pulpit, instead of just being a bully
Throw Jared in jail (multiple benefits, not just COVID-related)
Make sure states are treated equally, none of this fucking-over of the Blue states
Push Traitor Turtle to fund state and local governments per what the Speaker was trying to get implemented
… and that’s off the top of my head, without spending more than 30 seconds thinking about it.
mrmoshpotato
Oh, I’ll always be mad about it. :)
Because it was so fucking obvious that this was all a con. Oh, you’re going to bring back the coal industry? Really? How? How are you going to revive an industry that’s been slowly dying for decades and just doesn’t have the same demand? How are you going to do that, Donnie Dipshit? What about steel, numbnuts?
And what the fuck does ‘Make America Great Again’ mean exactly? Show your work as Stonekettle says.
As for all of the racism and misogyny that had to be ignored (or welcomed) to vote for this orange shitstain in 2016 (and/or 2020), well, I don’t have all day, night and next week…
debbie
@Matt McIrvin:
Trump’s been planning his reelection since he took office. That’s why he’s so outraged; he was sure he had totally rigged the election.
(But I’m with you on the fake C19. It’s totally in keeping with his, ahem, character.)
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: Neal bozo Boortz used to harp about it being a republic. Also the Civil War wasn’t about slavery
A friend who happens to be black bought into that, until I told her to read the GA secession papers.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
?
debbie
@rikyrah:
The greatest monster of our time. Even more so than Putin, based on the havoc Trump’s wreaked on this country.
Zelma
The Post article creates a narrative of what all of us who are actually following real news already knew. What is so appalling is that 74 million Americans are so ignorant of reality or so prejudiced or so dumb that they voted for him anyway. And that 70% of those voters are buying his lies about electoral fraud.
The Democrats and the Biden Administration better find their own Frank Luntz who can figure out how to message and they better figure out how to scare the pants off people. I know that’s not the Democratic way. But “when they go low, we go high” just ain’t working.
SFAW
@rikyrah:
Yeah, I know, and you’re right. The FL Poll Tax reminds me of Kafka (or similar):
“You can’t vote until you pay off your fines”
“How much do I owe?”
“Sorry, we’re not able/allowed to tell you”
I think Bloomberg was trying to help, and of course the traitors tried ramming through a bill preventing third-party debt payoff. [Well, I THINK I read that somewhere, maybe I’m worng.]
When I become god-emperor, I’m gonna spend some time cleaning out the vermin the Florida State House/Lege.
Baud
@Zelma:
It’s why Biden lost.
SFAW
@Zelma:
Although I tend to agree, I think President Biden did a lot less scorched-earth than he could have, because that’s who he is. Would he have garnered more votes if he HAD done scorched-earth? No idea.
SFAW
@Baud:
I know, but a part of me wishes that he (or a surrogate) had spent a fair amount of time showing how the Murderer-in-Chief’s actions led to an additional 200,000-plus deaths.
ETA: I still think that if Hillary had — when he was stalking her during the debate — threatened to kick him into next week, she might have won. [Yeah, I know, Comey might have overcome that, too.]
Matt McIrvin
@BR: A lot of being “prescient” in a movie like that is just doing your homework, talking to people who know things, and being willing to actually put the results on screen. None of this was unpredictable.
I’ve heard it said that they main thing they got wrong was assuming too much competence and concern among the people in charge.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
They thought Hillary would win.
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
With Trump in this case, never attribute to malice that which can be explained by boredom.
Other people’s suffering? Nah, that’s just Dullsville to Trump.
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Wait… you’re saying black people are being specifically targeted by the GOP?//
Another Scott
@West of the Rockies: Disagree. It was active malice on Donnie’s part.
MoJo:
Puerto Rico didn’t vote for him, so they didn’t get disaster assistance. California didn’t vote for him, so they didn’t get wildfire assistance. There are endless examples.
He’s actively malevolent toward the USA and her people. His COVID-19 response is just another example.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
@Luciamia: We read early on how Trump was cool with letting the virus “wash over the country” and kill 5-10 million people while he worked on his putting skills.
sdhays
@mrmoshpotato: Yeah, after I wrote that, I really meant I can’t get “more” angry about it. I’m maxed out at my outrage for Donnie Dump, the person.
His supporters, though…
gwangung
@mrmoshpotato: Morons constantly preach about the free market, but consistently focus on the supply and never the demand.
It’s out of whack because they don’t truly understand the market they worship.
beth
Re subscription – The Post is running a 2 year digital subscription for $59 deal. I just subscribed yesterday through an email offer. It reverts to $100/year after two years but can be cancelled before then.
debbie
Is that Fred I hear cackling in the background?
Ksmiami
@SFAW: investigations, tribunals, hangings. That’s where we need to go to sweep this fascist shit stain out of America
Another Scott
Heh.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
My shocked, shocked face is getting a workout today.
Cheers,
Scott.
randy khan
It’s not just Trump who’s checked out. I am subscribed to the White House email list (which, as I think I’ve mentioned before, is something of a mystery to me, as I know I didn’t do it intentionally), and here’s what I’ve gotten from them since the election:
November 4 to 12 – nada
November 13 – Links to a story about how COVID-19 vaccines will be free at major pharmacies and 4 other news stories*
November 14 to 19 – zip
November 20 – Links to a story about Pfizer filing its FDA application and 4 other news stories
November 21 and 22 – zilch
November 23 – Help Trump decides which turkey to pardon
November 24 – BREAKING (seriously, that’s how it starts): Trump pardons Cornbread
November 25 to 29 – Thanksgiving break
November 30 – Melania Trump unveils the Christmas decorations
December 4 – Links to a story about how many people the Administration hopes to vaccinate by the end of the year and 4 other news stories
December 5 to 7 – Christmas shopping
December 8 – Link to live video of Operation Warp Speed Vaccine Summit
December 9 to 10 – Really hard to find the right gift for Tiffany, got to keep looking
December 11 – Links to a story about how vaccinations could start on Monday and 4 other news stories
December 12 to 17 – I don’t have anything here, but neither did they
December 18 – Links to a story about the Moderna vaccine and 4 other news stories.
That’s nine emails in (counting on my fingers) 46 days. And it’s all vaccines and seasonal stuff, as if there’s nothing else to talk about. Before the election, it was about six a week. (They usually skipped Sunday, which is funny because it’s not like Trump was keeping the Sabbath.)
randy khan
@Another Scott:
Clearly – USF is the Bulls, not the Cougars.
Another Scott
“… that’s not how any of this works!”
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
Renie
@OzarkHillbilly: Even if you are an Amazon prime member there’s still a subscription fee.
Matt McIrvin
@debbie: Just, in general, when it comes to presidential health and illness, the historical pattern has always been to hide and underplay, not to exaggerate or make up a fake illness. And given what a vain creature Donald Trump is, I cannot imagine he’d be the one to break that pattern. If there are any revelations to come about that whole episode, I’d expect it to be that Trump was far sicker than he let on, not that he wasn’t sick at all.
Patricia Kayden
Zelma
@Baud:
I know that Biden ran a positive campaign and won. thank God. But I keep coming back to the fact that 74 million Americans voted for an incompetent, ignorant and evil man and that the Republicans have used fear and negativity as their main tools for decades. And those who believe that government must and can be a tool for good have not made their argument effectively.
Sean Illing had an interesting interview with political scientist Ethan Porter at Vox n 12/18. Porter has written a book, The Consumer Citizen, which I recommend. He concludes that appealing to a high minded view of the responsibilities of citizen just doesn’t work in contemporary America. I recommend checking it out. The money quote is:
“It means being comfortable with government, particularly in the US, advertising its services in a way similar to private companies. This is something that government used to do but doesn’t really do much of anymore. You can go back and see art from the New Deal period. Government actually used to be invested in this idea of promoting itself. It’s not really the case anymore. I think that’s unfortunate.
“As I show in the book, there are different lessons we can take from consumer life. We can take those lessons and apply them to certain advertisements for government. Done right, such advertisements can actually increase trust in government and increase support for various forms of taxation and government spending. So government needs to get more comfortable with advertising itself again.” (Sorry I don’t know how to block quote)
We have to meet people where they are and they do not live on the high plane of the duties of the citizen.
Baud
@Zelma:
Now I’m not sure what your suggesting. Advertising government is going high, not going low.
zhena gogolia
@West of the Rockies:
Everyone should read Mary Trump’s book. This is definitely the explanation. Nothing exists for him except himself. Everything else is boring.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Hooocoanode!
RandomMonster
@Renie: I had a Premium WaPo subscription ($15/month) that I got so I could monitor news during the election. I decided I could cancel that and go with the Kindle subscription now and save some money.
Zelma
Re my post, I recommend checking out the interview, not the book, which I haven’t read. Bad editing.
WhatsMyNym
You can read this WaPo story for free at the Seattle Times. Limited reads a month, or clear your cache!
debbie
@Matt McIrvin:
Somewhere I read that he’s still on steroids.
different-church-lady
@Zelma: Advertising — and people’s attitude towards it — has changed a lot since the New Deal.
Super Dave
These fuckers are war criminals, every last one of them. When impeachment failed (because more criminals in the Senate), the 25th should have been invoked. Those around Trump who failed to do that are complicit in the crimes. All of them. Even the ones who say, “I tried to tell them, but they wouldn’t listen…”
Those in Trump’s orbit who did nothing to stop him are all complicit. They will forever be remembered as traitors.
Sure Lurkalot
You all know that many a Trump voter would read that Wapo article and not believe a word of it. During my 3 am insomnia wake up call, I saw that a casual friend posted a Melanoma tweet showing an Xmas picture of herself and the man she’s about to leave that garnered some 48,000 comments wishing the happy couple a Merry Christmas and expressing gratitude for the great leadership. At my ripe old age, it probably won’t make a difference if the kids are all right or that history will accurately reflect the death and destruction Trump has heaped upon this nation. There are still over 70 million people who lived the last 5 years same as I did and said hell yes to more of the same. I will never be able to wrap my head around that.
wenchacha
@SFAW: I would like someone to spend a minute on some of those contests. As you said, even just to put them back on their heels, for a damn change.
different-church-lady
@debbie: Ivanka turning state’s evidence is gonna be LIT!
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Zelma: 46% of the country voted for Dump.
That’s the baseline. unfortunately, they can’t do worse.
McCain got 46%, Mittens got 47%, Dump got 46% in 2012.
In 1932, with tens of millions of families starving in bread lines and living in shanties, with veterans murdered at the Bonus March, with unemployment at a staggering 25% and the stock market down 89% the republican candidate still got 40% of the vote. He probably would have got 46% but the south refused for republicans at the time because of the civil war.
so on the bright side Dump did as bad as possible.
different-church-lady
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
You mean last April?
Zelma
@Baud:
I guess what I am pleading for is more effective messaging. Yes, advertising what the government is doing is “going high.” But I think there is another side to messaging.
I watched the roll-out of the climate team and there was a great deal about the positive aspects of dealing with climate change, especially the economic benefits. And though there were glancing references to the wild fires and flooding and hurricanes, I don’t think there was enough emphasis on how climate change is an existential threat and we should all be scared of its implications.
Maybe this was not the place for such messaging and I know that there are lots of people sounding the alarm. But it’s clearly not getting through strongly enough. I want to scare the pants off people, because that’s what the opposition does. Fear works. It is the most powerful emotion. We have to use it as effectively as the Republicans do.
Mike in NC
@Sure Lurkalot: Trump’s whole reelection campaign was based on White Supremacy and Police Brutality against non-whites. He nearly succeeded at becoming dictator for life. He has 30 more days to pull it off.
Baud
@Zelma:
Hard to oppose that.
There’s no reason to assume there is any stronger message that would get through.
What do you want people to be afraid of? Fear works for the GOP because the other side is afraid of us, and, more importantly, wants to be afraid of us.
Baud
@Mike in NC:
He’s not pulling anything off. We beat him.
Mike in NC
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: 40% of the electorate would vote for the zombie corpse of Charles Manson if he ran for office with (R) next to his name.
germy
Here’s a thread to read before it disappears:
Geminid
@Zelma: Political scientist Rachel Bitecofer makes a lot of incisive criticisms of Democratic messaging. I could not do her ideas justice, but she has an informative twitter feed that treats the topic a lot, and many of the discussions she has had with Democratic politicians and others can be accessed on video. She’s pretty sharp. Bitecofer is starting a PAC to better put her messaging ideas into practice.
germy
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@germy: she left out taibbi
bluefoot
@rikyrah: It was absolutely deliberate. He and his entire administration are all raging sociopaths and only care about money and power.
germy
Can I get the Moderna vaccine?
germy
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
He’s mentioned further down in the thread.
Aleta
Meadows is a dangerous piece of work. Going back years.
Jay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
since that incident back in ‘77 he never brushes his teeth in the shower.
trollhattan
From the Very Fine People on Both Sides file:
Geminid
@Zelma: Rachel Bitecofer’s longer analytical work has been published by The Wason Center, the Niskanen Center, and her new website The Cycle. A good introduction to her thinking, especially the idea of “negative partisanship,” can be found in her article published in the February 2020 New Republic, titled “Hate is on the Ballot.”
Obdurodon
@debbie: As Ivanka let slip recently, they’re all sitting on a big pile of Moderna stock bought back in January or February. That is absolutely the only reason Trump talks about vaccines for others, but that message does not require him getting one personally and he won’t alienate his base by doing so. It also explains a lot of what has happened wrt the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines. It’s a classic Trump/Kushner grift.
Aleta
@germy: Personal suspicion that some on that crew were feeding Kushner’s NY Observer in 2016 to produce “news” articles they intended for repetition of groundless information on other mainstream sites. I’d also bet a little money on a direct friendly connection between Kushner and GW, although that’s a groundless attack of my own.
trollhattan
Donny says a thing.
I’ll never understand how the little rich boy can be so very thin-skinned. His treatment, so badly.
germy
@Aleta:
Lots of gullible or willing people on the mainstream sites who were willing to pass the “news” along.
Matt McIrvin
@debbie: This would be extremely unsurprising to me!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: there are a lot of people out there, apparently, who were on the fence between Biden and trump because before three hundred thousand people died in a pandemic that trump ignored, the economy was good. We moved enough of them to our column to win, but I struggle to think of a platonic ideal of messaging that could effectively reach people like this
The trump years were a four-year rolling civics test and the American people, collectively, failed.
debbie
@bluefoot:
They are living proof how essential checks and balances are.
Another Scott
@Geminid: I like Bitecofer, too, but she rubs at least a few Virginia democratic operatives the wrong way. And she has gotten out over her skis on a few occasions. And she works with Project Lincoln.
E.g..
She’s young and opinionated and willing to do the work. But she makes mistakes too (as we all do if we’re honest). One should always keep their thinking cap on when reading stuff like hers.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Autonomic function is how shitforbrains doesn’t actually kill himself out of stupidity, every damn day.
Ruckus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Why use 2 words when you get paid by the word?
Geminid
@Another Scott: That Bitecofer worked with the Lincoln Project is well known, and does not bother me at all. One should keep their thinking cap on when reading anybody. But do you read her? What do you think about her ideas on political messaging?
Ruckus
@frosty:
It’s not the states per se it’s the way the votes are arranged so that the people don’t actually elect the president, areas of voters do. So a state like CA which has the largest population and is very much tipped in one political direction has a very difficult time being powerful, if the smaller states can be bent the other way. IOW it has removed the concept of one person – one vote from being the electoral decision, into areas of voting have precedence. We are not a democracy, as others have pointed out. Some of this is growth, that has changed voting results, some is integration, which in theory removes racism from restricting voting. This country needs to take a very hard look at what kind of country do we want to grow up to be, an actual democracy or not. We can still elect representatives to do the day to day work, but it’s how we arrange that selecting process that is the key.
TomatoQueen
@SFAW: Bob McNamara seems to get credit for things Dick Bissell did, although it’s likely they worked together (Dick was born in 1909, Bob 1916). Dick Bissell was famous for doing the planning/logistics for the campaign against the UBoats in his head; later he was the Chief of the U2 program (according to something I read recently somewhere, the U2 is still in use and we need to keep it). After he retired from the CIA, he taught English at Yale, along with other OSS alumni, all of whom were involved in the early days of the Beinecke Library, which was how a 7 year old girl met him, when her Daddy worked there.
wvng
As impressive a piece of journalism as the Post article is, I didn’t notice anything in there about Jared forcing the states to bid against each other for scarce PPE in the spring, which increased costs to everyone, then the Feds swooping in to outbid them, or steal supplies when they arrived. Did I just miss it?
Geminid
@TomatoQueen: McNamara’s biggest job during the Second World War was managing production of the B-29 bomber, according to David Halberstam, author of The Best and the Brightest.
Another Scott
@Geminid: I read some of her stuff at Niskanen before the election and it seemed sensible to me.
This twitter thread seems kinda sensible too, but she gets very important details very wrong…
So, I dunno. I don’t know the history of NotLarrySabato and others being so down on her. (He gets things wrong too – like thinking Biden was going to win a Reagan/Mondale-level landslide.)
Just a FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
No country that has a voting system that actually elects people who run is immune from having a broken system. It’s the degree of broken, it’s still the people who vote against their own real interests because they are convinced that the interests they focus on are better or should rate higher than others. Racists, monetary, religion are the three biggies in this country and the first two are much stronger forces.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@germy:
The lovely Ms Crenshaw may want to go through hubs’ phone and compare text messages to what shows on the bill to detect deletions.
Obdurodon
@Ruckus: Thanks to the Senate and the Electoral College and other things like gerrymandering, I’d say we’re a lot closer to a “geocracy” (I just made that up though I doubt I’m the first) than a democracy.
Bill Arnold
@Mike in NC:
Such a life would be short. He tries, he dies. (So do a lot of others, mostly innocents. So does the USA, probably.)
I’m an advocate of non-violent tactics, but realistically, the USA is a violent country, and well armed (including with long-range weapons).
Bill Arnold
@Zelma:
Fear is just one emotion, but yes, Democrats need to be willing to use messaging powered by emotional manipulation, for good.
Because Republicans freely use such messaging for evil.
Geminid
@Another Scott: Bitecofer may have written that particular tweet too quickly, but there was nothing incorrect about the substance that I could see. And Rachel Bitecofer is 43 years old. She’s not young, just considered junior in status within the hierarchy of political analysts.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
Daddy Fred is the answer to your non understanding.
Fred had money and was a racist deluxe – white hood model. Only one of his kids was completely moldable, into racist deluxe II. That’s little donney boy. IQ and learning potential of a tomato plant, cares about no one else in any way, willing to do most anything as long as he doesn’t get his hands dirty, oblivious to reason or reality, narcissistic to his core, racist deluxe II was the perfect dummy to take over for Fred, to carry on the family business, racism. How’s it going so far?
opiejeanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
That was totally uncalled for. Don’t do that.
trollhattan
@Ruckus:
Yeah, I’ve read (maybe via Mary Trump) that both daddy and Roy Cohen counseled Donny to be a “killer.” What I don’t know is where he picked up whiny killer.
germy
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I have no evidence of this, but my guess is she’s afraid of him.
Ruckus
@Obdurodon:
Exactly the point. Land was the most valuable thing one could have when this country started and most of the people that started it knew it and were land owners. Life was almost strictly agricultural at the time, now for a dramatically larger percentage of the population, agricultural effort is shopping at the grocery store. How many of us don’t actually own the land we live on? Does that make us less as citizens? It did at the founding of the country.
Another Scott
@Geminid: Herring’s not running for Gov. There were very widely discussed rumors about him running for re-election to AG in early September. (He made it official on 12/16.) She shouldn’t have made that mistake.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@germy:
That was a good thread. I read all the replies too; the Destroy America contingent on “The Left” loud; natural allies of the Fascists/Republicans.
LongHairedWeirdo
@germy: Well, that, and, Fox News (and other right wing media outlets) pushed the “it’s no big deal” line pretty hard.
I still wonder a bit if the right wing media decided it was no big deal, and Trump decided it wasn’t; or if Trump decided to say it was no big deal, and the RWM (right wing morons, er, I mean, media) carried his water, which, to him, would reinforce the idea that he was right.
It *is* clear that one of the massive failures is, the Trump administration decided that “since it doesn’t kill *too* many people, it’s no big deal.” They decided that catching Covd-19 meant you died, or, they didn’t have to care about what happened, even if it left you permanently disabled.
Even if that’s the (for want of a weaker word) thought process, that we’ve had 18 million infections and over 300,000 deaths, so we’re looking at 1.7% fatality (NB: if we TESTED more, that percentage would likely go DOWN), which is 17x more dangerous than the flu.
I’m convinced of one thing: one reason more people aren’t furiously angry is, it’s just too big. Take any person who is *capable* of thinking Trump is an “not very good, but, you know, acceptable” President, and they now have to believe he nevertheless sat on his lardbutt, without a hint of concern for the 10s, and now hundreds, of thousands, of people dying.
It doesn’t seem possible, right? It completely contradicts the earlier belief that he’s an acceptably-bad President. And the easiest assumption to make in that situation is “well, since it’s only DEMOCRATS (and the “lamestream media”) saying he’s doing terribly, he must be doing okay. My local congresscritter or senator would speak out if he was derelict in his duties.”
Which is why the Republican Party really does need to be broken. They’ve gladly thrown away hundreds of thousands of American lives, just to protect their party’s image.
I do hope some political reporters also realize that this means THERE IS NO LIMIT TO REPUBLICAN LIES. Before impeachment, we could think “well, they’re covering for him, and surely shading the truth, but if it was serious, they’d speak up.” Then impeachment came, where he violated his oath, broke the law, misused his office, and did everything he could to cover it up.
They covered for him again.
Now, PEOPLE ARE DYING. And they’re still covering for him.
It’s somewhat scary that it’s their covering up for his election lies that got people wary, and/or upset. I mean, I get it, “he did a horrible job and was voted out, and now doesn’t even acknowledge reality” – but the lies about a deadly disease should have been all that was needed.
frosty
@Ruckus: You’re right. If it was a strict federalist system, it would be one state – one vote. The EC is some kind of hybrid. A compromise by the Founders, if you will.
MagdaInBlack
@germy: I have that suspicion too
Eta: the guy has abusive creep vibes.
catclub
how do they know?
Zelma
@Bill Arnold:
That’s the point I was trying to make but you made it much more effectively. I do think there is a tendency for Democrats and liberals to appeal more to the intellect than the emotions. That’s just who we are. (Heck, I describe myself as a Lockean empiricist<g>.). But that’s just not how many people approach politics – or life. Which is one reason economics has gone so far astray.
One reason I mention fear as a motivating force is that I’ve seen it operate on otherwise intelligent people. And once that fear is rooted, it becomes very difficult to “reason” someone out of it. And the right are masters at instilling fear.
I have no idea about how Democrats can use emotional responses for good ends. I just hope somebody figures it out.
Geminid
@Another Scott: I read the thread, and Bitecofer did say Herring Is wise to for governor. She may have meant that he would be wise to make that run. But I don’t know why you are trying to cut Bitecofer down to size. I just recommended to the commenter that she check out Rachel Bitecofer’s ideas about better Democratic messaging, because that was a concern of hers. This is a hot topic here, and it seems to me that Bitecofer has put a lot more study and thought into political messaging than anyone here. She’s worth reading.
Lulymay
@West of the Rockies: I’ve had the same suspicion, and it wouldn’t put it past him to put that b.s. out there to gather a little more sympathy from his “adoring” fans.
Omnes Omnibus
@opiejeanne: That seems a bit harsh. CfC chose a very particular way of describing the election result – one that is as misleading in its way as saying that Trump lost by 7 million votes. Being annoyed by that isn’t unreasonable.
Another Scott
@Geminid: I’m sorry it’s coming off as trying to tear her down.
She can be very good, and I’ve pointed that out (as in this March 24 tweet).
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Another Scott: Well, we’ll get to see the value of Rachel Bitecofer’s work over the next few years. She cut loose from academia when Christopher Newport University denied her a tenure track job this spring. Political Science was her first love, but now she has taken up Political Engineering. Bitecofer has a chip on her shoulder, but she has an outsider’s point of view that may add to her effectiveness.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
OT, but: Jets up by 13 over the Rams.
I have a feeling it’s a functional equivalent of the Traitor-in-Chief being ahead (in EV, maybe) on 11/3. Fortunately, I don’t think the Jets can lose by 7 Million. (Or even 74.)
Geminid
@Omnes Omnibus: That “64,000 vote swing” idea is unsettling to many. It has been interpreted by republicans to mean that the election result was so close as have an ambiguous result. But on its face, it just means that the election was close, given that the Electoral College is a fact. That is not a bad thing to be reminded of, since the next election at least will most likely be decided by the Electoral College, and Democrats will again have to plan accordingly.
Dopey-o
The democrats’ messaging problem is different. Luntz’ genius was that he could inject his message straight into the R’s receptive R-cortexes where the poison worked like heroin. “Ni**ers! Queers! Commies! Perverts! Taking your penisguns! Booga booga!”
D’s brains work differently: Explain the importance of universal healthcare coverage and its relationship to pre-existing conditions, and watch them have an almost hormonal response to the clockwork interplay of actors and factors. It’s Democtratic foreplay.
American voters have self-selected themselves into their parties. Throw in a little authoritarianism on the right, and a pinch of polymorphous perverversion on the left, and we arrive at the implacable impass of 2020.
Republicans and their voters want scapegoats. Democrats want solutions. There is no solution.
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I disagree
16 million more people came out between 2016 and 2020.
Your problem is that you gave the people who voted for him in 2016 any benefit of the doubt. They deserved none. They are EXACTLY who I thought they were.
Peale
@Geminid: Yeah. Its good to note, but for that and the dismal showings down ticket, I don’t think the Dems have given themselves any permission to celebrate actually taking the presidency. Dems are always taught to be concerned about the people who don’t vote for them. Did you know that 7 million more people voted for Trump than in 2016? That he got 73 million votes? Its all they want to talk about, even though Biden got 12 million more votes than Hillary and flipped a bunch of states and didn’t lose any of Hillary’s states. I think we get so worried about being caught doing a victory lap that we don’t give our supporters a break.
ETA: I keep have to reminding people that once shit like Trumpism wins, its really hard to get rid of it by electoral means. I’m sure the opposition to Orban, or Erdrogan, or Putin, or Netanyahu, or Chanocha or Duterte, or Modi would love, just love to eke out a barely victory. That oppostion is nowhere close to being able to do so and probably won’t be close for 20 years. We joined Italy and Korea as the few democracies that have been able to get rid of that kind of leader in the past decade. That’s a short list. Hell, Netanyahu probably lost the last election and the opposition just handed the power back over to him because they just didn’t feel up to the task of being in power during the pandemic and will probably be out of power for another 20 years because of that.
Another Scott
Speaking of the virus… ScienceMag:
More at the link.
“We’re not safe until everyone is safe…”
Cheers,
Scott.
artem1s
@BR:
I’ve been watching that a lot lately. the blogger spreading fake cures government conspiracy theories, and anti-vaxer fear is my favorite character. spot on.
Brachiator
@Peale:
Trump is the Accidental, but Fortunately Incompetent Autocrat. He had no political following until he ran for president. Then, a lot of his supporters discovered how much they hated democracy. This will be a problem for years to come.
Omnes Omnibus
@Geminid: Because of the way our elections work, they can’t really be reduced to a 65,000 or 7 million margin of victory. Both are simultaneously true and, when taken out of context, misleading.
TS (the original)
@Another Scott:
Which has been brought home to those of us in Australia over the past few days. Silly me thinking we could have a covid free Christmas with family.
Until this is fixed, world wide, everyone, anywhere is vunerable.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Excuse me?
when and where did I do that?
Mike G
I hope all these people die slowly of ass cancer.