Hello and welcome to a special holiday edition of Recommended Reading! Today we’ll be talking about our Light Solstice Reading Club selection, Terry Pratchett’s Hogfather. I’m so happy we could share this reading experience together. I didn’t remember much from my prior read, so this was almost like reading it for the first time. And what can I say? Pratchett is almost always good, but when he’s transcendent, he’s transcendent.
Hogfather tells the story of the time Santa Cl the Hogfather is, for lack of a better term, killed. By the assassin Mr. Teatime, which is of course pronounced the-ah-tim-eh, though everybody mispronounces it immediately, even if they’ve never seen it spelled. Death must step in and deliver the presents. Meanwhile a surplus of belief is sloshing around the Discworld, giving rise to the Oh God of Hangovers, the Eater of Socks, and more. We follow various heroes and villains as they navigate this new reality. In the end, balance is restored, reality’s humorless scolds defeated (for now).
Hogfather hits a real sweet spot for me: I’m a sucker for holiday specials, and like Neil Gaiman I think Death is Pratchett’s best character. This book is a pile of contradictions, a god-riddled argument for secular humanism, a rationalist’s paean to irrational belief, where Death is the only character who seems to understand the meaning of life. And it’s so well-engineered that it actually works. In the hands of a lesser author, so many things could go wrong. But they don’t, because this is Pratchett at the top of his very considerable game. Everything comes together in the end for a denouement that I’m not ashamed to admit made me cry a little. Especially Banjo’s fate.
When I read a paperback I dog-ear the bottom corners for favorite passages. I ended up with a lot for this one, sometimes on facing pages. So much to love in this book. As somebody who’s attended his share of Episcopal, Jewish, and Neo-Pagan solstice celebrations, I think Pratchett does a great job capturing the true meaning of Hogswatch–fire and blood, annoying relatives in paper hats, ancient rituals to chase away the smothering darkness with lights and pretty pictures. And big, stupid myths we tell our children. The tiniest worm in the ocean, a red flame in the crushing black depths, speaks volumes in this story. Its life is so irrational, striving against oblivion, and why?
Because otherwise, the universe is just a bunch of rocks moving in curves. Without our sometimes ridiculous applications of the anthropic principle–personified here as a professor–when the sun rises after the darkest day of the year, it’s just a ball of flaming gas. Without the Hogfather–or that silly, pointlessly red worm–we forget ourselves.
And that is why, at this time of the year, we light things on fire. Happy Hogswatch, everyone! What did you all think? Opening discussion question: what does Death sound like in your head?
Authors In Our Midst: WereBear Did NaNoWriMo in 2020
PaulWartenberg
I never figured out the deal with the Auditors. I know they’re opposed to the randomness of free will and thus oppose life itself, but it makes them too easy a set of villains to go against.
Teatime was scary nasty though.
PaulWartenberg
The speech about Belief that Death gives his granddaughter is Pratchett at his best.
“All right,” said Susan. “I’m not stupid. You’re saying humans need… fantasies to make life bearable.”
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
“Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—”
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
“So we can believe the big ones?”
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
“They’re not the same at all!”
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME…SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
OldDave
I’ve read the book a few times and watched the British TV adaptation … but nothing fresh comes to mind right now. Maybe someone will inspire me to comment further.
Major Major Major Major
@PaulWartenberg: I think of them more as a force of nature than a villain per se. A disaster movie might find us working in opposition to a volcano, but it’s really about humans squabbling over scarce resources.
Matt McIrvin
Christopher Lee did the voice in the TV Colour of Magic, and his voice was close enough to how I imagine those capitalized utterances.
Torrey
What does Death sound like? My first reaction is to say he sounds like Ian Richardson, who played the character in the film, but then I realized that, when I read the character in my head, Death sounds to me much more like Christopher Lee giving an extra resonance to his voice while reading “The Raven.” Perhaps a mix of the two: Richardson with a bit extra at the low end. That’s the voice, of course, not necessarily the accent.
ETA: and I see that while I was composing Matt McIrvin brought up Christopher Lee. So there it is.
JeanneT
I was re-reading this story, and seeing so much more detail in it than I appreciated the first times I raced through the book. I agree with Paul that Death’s commentary is a wonderful statement about belief and humanity. I also loved one little damning comment about Teatime – that he ‘treated people like things’. That reminded me of the lessons from another Pratchett book about belief and faith – Carpe Jugulum.
Really, much of Prachett’s writing is about belief, and how it shapes humanity and the way we see the world…..
(aside: My copy of the Hogfather this time round was an ebook from my public library. I was so sad that my edition did not include the text of ANY of the footnotes!)
dmsilev
@PaulWartenberg: They’re not really the main villains in Hogfather, but instead are more of a plot device to get the ball rolling. Pratchett tried to flesh them out some in Thief of Time, and I’m not really sure he was completely successful.
J R in WV
The book was amazing to read years later on. I did a Pratchett binge years ago (30 or 40…) and one of my best friends is an addict of Pratchett work. Reminded me a little bit of Dickens (who I really don’t like) perhaps because of the similarity between MorPork (sp?) and Victorian London. Lamp lighters, trash pickers, mud-larks, shit-gatherers, on and on.
I finished it 2 or 3 weeks ago, and restarted it a few days ago. Fascinating book, I too found the Auditors strange, everyone else seemed to fit right in. Needing to believe the common myths that underlie civilization seems pretty real too. Why else do we read George Eliot? Or Dickens? Or Melville? I may not finish the second/third reading right away.
But going into the Trump Plague Xmas as we are, this book was right on the money, thanks Major^4 for bringing it to our attention! Bleak, bloody, body bags out behind the hospitals, just a living horror story for everyone, everywhere. What would Sir Terry have done with this situation? Whoo, scary thoughts.
Major Major Major Major
@JeanneT: thanks to a licensing agreement, a lot of libraries have Pratchett ebooks… and this has pissed me off about every one I’ve ever read!
Matt McIrvin
@JeanneT: Yes! Granny Weatherwax on the nature of evil.
JeanneT
@Major Major Major Major: Indeed. The footnotes are a big part of the fun, and teach many interesting things about the nature of Diskworld.
Tom Levenson
@Matt McIrvin: Pratchett is one of the clearest and most persuasive writers on the nature of evil. The theme runs through basically all of his work, ISTM, and I love him for it.
Slow, me–Just starting my reread of Hogfather.
dmsilev
@JeanneT:
I always suggest Small Gods as a good starting point for people new to Discworld, and that strong thematic element is one big reason why.
Kristine
I’m only half-through my reread. Enjoying Ponder Stibbon’s dealings with Hex at present. And Ridcully. And Pterry’s talent for characterization and setting.
Death is a favorite. His voice is of course sepulchral, Christopher Lee or James Earl Jones.
I started in the middle of things with Discworld–my first book was Lords and Ladies. I thought the character speaking in ALL CAPS was a d/i/s/t/a/n/t/ r/e/l/a/t/i/v/e/ of d/i/f/f/e/r/e/n/t c/h/u/r/c/h l/a/d/y a wizard, but I soon learned the error of my ways.
Major Major Major Major
@Kristine: I don’t usually care for the wizards but even they’re great here. Always love the high energy magic lab, actually, now that I think about it.
arrieve
I’ve always assumed that Death has no voice — like someone with bad laryngitis — and that’s why he has to speak only in upper case. I’ve not seen any of the adaptations — so much of what I love in Pratchett is his voice. “The senior wizards gathered round, ready to help those less fortunate than themselves remain that way,” to pick a random example.
Death is my second favorite character, after Granny Weatherwax.
JeanneT
@Matt McIrvin: Right – and that has really come to mind many times during the past four years: evil is treating people (animals, the earth, etc) as things for our own gratification and profit, to be used and discarded.
This reading I also especially enjoyed the holy fury of Death when dealing with the King giving his discards to the poor peasant and expecting tears of joy and gratitude, and Death’s refusing to accept the death of the little match girl. The cynical comments of Albert especially made me think about the romanticism of poverty.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
And the newly re-discovered lux bathroom upstairs in the University tower… “…Don’t touch THAT valve!!” — so funny!
Sloane Ranger
I had forgotten how dense this book is. I mean this in a good way. Despite its 445 pages there is nothing that seems like fill. Every event either takes the story forward or makes a point about the underlying themes of the book and it goes along at a cracking rate and is very easy to read.
I addition to the themes Mx4 Identifies, I think there is another theme, which is common to Pratchett, which is about the importance of people treating each other with respect and humanity and, as is often the case with Pratchett, Death actually shows more humanity than some of the humans.
I didn’t even miss Vimes and Velindre, who are my favourite characters.
StringOnAStick
@dmsilev: Funny, the first Pratchett I read was Small Gods. Picked up in an airport only because people here and elsewhere had mentioned loving his books; I had never heard of him before. I have a huge pile of his paperbacks to work through, though this year has been all about following the daily attack on our democracy and for the last 3 months, moving.
I’m just about to unpack my books, and a fresh copy of Hogfather is in one of those boxes. Might be a good way to celebrate the Solstice!
Kristine
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve never been a Rincewind fan, although I did enjoy The Last Continent. I adore the Luggage. I want a Luggage.
For me, though, it’s Guards and Witches all the way, with Death and Susan in the middle and the Wizards well back of the pack. Any conversation between Sam Vimes and Lord Vetinari is to be savored. Vetinari is, in fact, one of my Spock Crushes, along with the Vision, Lord Peter Wimsey, and, well, Spock.
BruceFromOhio
4 out 5 cavemen agree: fire HOT.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
Rincewind is Everyman: we never learn anything about his family or his home (unlike, say Death) which makes him a bit of a cipher.
My only quarrel is that if the Auditors knew what they were doing, they’d make Vetinari into death. Vetinari would be better at being Death than Death is, in my opinion. Of course, the Auditors would have to somehow persuade Vetinari to have to somehow cease to care about Ankh-Morpork.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
I think Death sounds like a very deep, very deadpan voice in your head.
KnittyGal
I was really struck by the part when Death and Albert are in the Maul ( love that spelling), IT’S THE EXPRESSION ON THEIR LITTLE FACES I LIKE, said the Hogfather.
You mean sort of fear and awe and not knowing whether to laugh or cry or wet your pants?
YES. NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL BELIEF.
That definition of belief really does seem to fit, especially as we see the cult of Drumpf in our everyday lives.
Major Major Major Major
@StringOnAStick: my first was Thud!, bought under similar circumstances.
JeanneT
@Major Major Major Major:
Thud seems like a tricky book to start with – did it come together for you in spite of not having the big backstory?
Major Major Major Major
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: the Auditors don’t pick anybody for anthropomorphized roles, do they?
OldDave
@JeanneT: Speaking of starting a book series in the wrong place – I read “The Two Towers” first. That did have the benefit of starting with a chase scene. ;-)
JeanneT
@OldDave: It’s a good sign if you can start in the middle of a trilogy and still get into the story. I suspect I am too careful about finding the first book and moving on to the second and third….
Major Major Major Major
@JeanneT: yeah it worked fine!
opiejeanne
@JeanneT: I can’t locate my hard copy of The Hogfather*, so I ordered it on my nook, and I was also disappointed by the lack of footnotes
*One of my kids has it, but no one is admitting it.
JeanneT
@Major Major Major Major: I think the auditors tried to take on the role of death themselves in Reaper Man (another favorite of mine; I’m starting a list of Pratchetts to re-read this winter).
Major Major Major Major
@JeanneT: only made it halfway through that one earlier this year… wasn’t in the mood I guess.
J R in WV
@opiejeanne:
I bought Hogfather on my Android tablet and it comes with all the footnotes… Via my Amazon account.
opiejeanne
@Sloane Ranger: Who is Velindre?
colleeniem
Thank you for this virtual book club! I think Death is a great character, but can we also talk about Susan in the story? She is a wonderful protagonist (by proxy) and I forgot the incisive running theme about babysitter energy and understanding that kiddies understand and like gross/scary as well as sweet/cute. Also, the change of the solstice story over time at the end by anthropological manifestation was a treat–I forgot about the Pacific Asian origin story and it was there! Sir Terry has been an education for me in understanding world folklore.
Sloane Ranger
@opiejeanne: Sorry, “intelligent ” spelling. I meant Vetinari.
Major Major Major Major
@colleeniem: Susan really came into her own here too.
Kristine
I’ve found with my Discworld ebooks (Apple Books) that the footnotes aren’t on the bottoms of the pages. There are clickable asterisks where the footnote indicators would be in the paper book. Hit the asterisk, and you’re taken to the footnote. Click the asterisk at the top of the footnote to be taken back to the book proper.
gwangung
@Kristine:
Yes, same here….(bought it on Amazon, used calibre to convert and reading it on Apple Books).
J R in WV
@Kristine:
Yes, this is about how they work on my Android tablet as well. But a big X in the upper right corner to return, IIRC, otherwise exactly like this.
J R in WV
Here’s a question for the crowd: Who is Trump in this book?
My take is Mr Teatime, the bland yet crazed killer.
Trump isn’t as skilled, but somehow remains able to out kill Me Teatime by hundreds of thousands of deaths. Both hideous in aspect, though.
Cowboy Diva
I see the folks complaining about the missing footnotes in the ebook and Nook versions of the book, and it makes me sad because the Kindle versions of the Sir PTerry books all have the footnotes. You are indeed missing out.
Major Major Major Major
@J R in WV: Donald Trump is not in this book.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
Susan is a hero any way you look at the story. In spite of her heritage, too. Tho Death is kind of heartfelt for the character he is, really. And each species has a Death, also strange but proper.
When she takes a poker, or anything suitable, to whichever little monster is bothering a kid, wow, Stand Back! So much better than lying about the grim reality of the world.
Chief Oshkosh
Pretty sure that we light things on fire at this time of year because it’s fookin’ cold at this time of year. ;)
opiejeanne
@Kristine: Thanks. I’ll try that.
opiejeanne
@J R in WV: Trump is mentioned in other Pratchett books, including the Night Watch. He is Mad Lord Snapcase.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: I did not know that.
Matt McIrvin
@opiejeanne: One of the most melancholy things about Night Watch is the way all the characters at the conclusion of the past timeframe talk about their hopes for Lord Snapcase being better than what they had. Of course, we know otherwise.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@PaulWartenberg: always hear it all in Alan Rickman’s voice in my head. I loved him as the Metatron in Dogma
cckids
@Kristine:
That’s the case on my kindle
as well; the asterisks are infinitesimally tiny tho.
cckids
@J R in WV:
The Auditors are closest. Their deep dislike for and misunderstanding of humanity are Trumpian.
Emma from FL
@J R in WV: I had forgotten how funny Susan’s running commentary is on the nature of children, and governesing (is that even a word?). She’s amazingly clear-eyed and tart.
Tehanu
I too adore the Luggage, along with Death, Vimes, Carrot, Vetinari, Agnes Nitt, Magrat, Maurice, Moist von Lipwig, Adora Belle, and Tiffany Aching. I don’t think I have one favorite Pratchett book, but Maskerade‘s take on The Phantom of the Opera, Going Postal, and Monstrous Regiment are definitely in my top five. In fact, now I think I might do a complete Pratchett re-read as soon as I finish my current Deborah Crombie re-read.
grandmaBear
Thanks for suggesting this book. I’d read only Small Gods & Guards, Guards and enjoyed them but wouldn’t have picked this one next without the push. Really enjoyed it, especially Death & Susan. I may just start at the beginning & cover it all (yes, I read the comments about the first ones being so-so).
ellie
The writing is exquisite but I am having trouble getting into the story. I won’t give up though.
Major Major Major Major
@ellie: give it a little time, it picks up.
Kristine
@opiejeanne: Oh–I didn’t know that, either.
PaulB
I loved Susan’s speech telling the youngest child that yes, there is a Hogfather.
“Wherever people are obtuse and absurd … and wherever they have, by even the most generous standards, the attention span of a small chicken in a hurricane and the investigative ability of a one-legged cockroach … and wherever people are inanely credulous, thematically attached to the certainties of the nursery and, in general, have as much grasp of the realities of the physical universe as an oyster has of mountaineering … yes, Twyla: there is a Hogfather.”
Kristine
@cckids:
Aren’t they? So easy to miss. That’s why I thought for a while that the footnotes weren’t added to the ebook versions–I skimmed right past the blasted things.
PaulB
Other quotes from Susan from all of the books can be found here.
Chagall Charles Caltrop
@JeanneT: the Auditors find a new Death, noted for his dramatic flair (crown, etc.) but Reaper Man never says where they get him from.
Major Major Major Major
@Chagall Charles Caltrop: I sort of got the impression he congealed on his own.
PaulB
So many memorable characters from the books, including some that started very shallow early in his career when it was all about getting the laugh but got progressively more mature as he learned more about the craft of writing and put more heart and soul into his work.
It’s interesting watching the writing and the characters change over time as some of the latter, most notably Death, Commander Vimes, and Granny Weatherwax, gain real depth. I don’t re-read the first few books but have re-read many of the later books.
dkinPa
@colleeniem: Susan is one of my all-time favorite characters. YOU DO NOT MESS WITH SUSAN. I haven’t read all of the Disc world books, and am hoping she pops up again in another one. (Coming in late; I thought I had this marked on my calendar, but I must have dreamed it.)
Tenar Arha
@PaulB: I love that quote. Don’t know why, but that just hit me as this vision of Susan saying that to Megan Kelly & LOL’d
CaseyL
Death metes out such…. satisfying… consequences to entities and individuals who violate his/our sense of a just universe.
I’ve watched only a few moments of the BBC adaptations of Pratchett’s books. Usually, the individuals don’t look, sound, or act like they do in my head. The sole exception being Vetinary: Charles Dance is **perfect** in the role, though I’m not sure how much his indelible performance as Tywin Lannister informs that.
Also, I get a continuous undercurrent of .. I don’t know what to do call it, maybe “manic plot acceleration”… “high energy wossname” ?… from the books, which may all be in my own head as it never seems to come across in the adaptation. The adaptations therefore all feel a bit slow and flat to me.
Tenar Arha
I never got into the Discworld. Somehow by the time I became aware of it, there were already so many novels in the series that I didn’t know where to start.
Anyway, was really late to Pratchett, but I’ve read (or watched adaptations) of a few of his novels since then, like Going Postal & Small Gods etc. Very impressive. And some of his characters are just fantastic.
I’ve had any number of people recommend the Granny Weatherwax novels, any particular one I should start with?
Kristine
@Tenar Arha:
Here they are in publication order. I started the whole series with Lords and Ladies, which features Magrat and Elves. Wyrd Sisters is a revamping of The Scottish Play. To me, Equal Rites is like a cross between a Tiffany Aching story and a Discworld. I’d start with Wyrd Sisters, myself, but that’s just me.
dkinPa
@Tenar Arha: The book I started with, and have since given away as gifts, is Wyrd Sisters. Still my favorite of the Pratchett books (next to Hogfather). Opening scene is Granny Weatherwax and two other witches, in a storm on the heath in the middle of the night. It only gets better. Think Hamlet, even more deranged if possible.
OldDave
One of my favorite bits of Pratchett featuring Susan:
‘No one would be that stu-’
Susan stopped. Of course someone would be that stupid. Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying ‘End-of-the-World-Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH’, the paint wouldn’t even have time to dry.
Major Major Major Major
@dkinPa: Wyrd Sisters is Macbeth, yeah? It was my first witches book, it’s very good.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Definitely don’t need to start “at the beginning” with Discworld novels, but it can be nice to start at the beginning of a sequence or theme.
Some books stand alone very nicely (most, really).
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
“Reading order guide”
gwangung
@dkinPa: Yes, indeed.
She’s not presented as particularly larger than life or imposing, but, by Pterry, she would roll over Batman in getting things done. Formidable is her middle name.
J R in WV
@opiejeanne:
Thanks for that tidbit of information!! Had no idea his revolting persona had penetrated the Aura of Great Britain….
I’ll have to look that up, I’ve read the book, but long ago now.
RobertS
Thanks for suggesting this read. I first read the paper version years ago, I forget when. Since then I’ve watched the BBC adaptation twice before this most recent re-reading.
Its hard to read this book without laying it on top of my memories of the BBC series. I’m struck by how good the BBC adaptation is – there are scenes in the book that make more sense on the screen. Most notably, the part of the story when Teatime and his band first broke into the Tooth Fairy’s castle.
J R in WV
Susan reminds me of so many really strong women I have known, including my maternal grandmother and her daughters, my aunt and my mom. Mom went to Journalism school and became a reporter in the 1940s, long before that profession was “open” to women.
While her “assignment” was the society pages, she was the reporter in the news room when a sensational murder came in, and reported on that crime of the
centurydecade as long as the story lasted. Two high-society persons were discovered, dead, naked, in a Packard below the Country Club. Not married to each other. Never solved. But imagine the challenge of covering that story in the late ’40s.She tried to create a novel from the story, but it never came together to her satisfaction. I wish I had her draft, which of course was on copy paper, typed on a Remington.
J R in WV
OK, I’ve looked at the quotes from Susan, and the books quoted are marked as SM, H (obviously Hogfather), and TOT.
Anyone ready to opine on what titles SM and TOT refer to?
Thanks in advance!
ETA: TOT = Thief of Time ?
and SM = Soul Music ? They would run into one another OK: SM –> H –> TOT
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: My first Pratchett book was Equal Rites. I worked at the main library in Riverside, CA, and my boss handed me a box of damaged books and records to dispose of in the dumpster. I spotted this tattered paperback and thought it looked interesting, asked if I could keep it and they said I could keep any that I wanted.
That was in 1988, and it sat on the bookshelf for nearly two years before I started reading it.
I still have it. Sir Pterry signed it with the comment, “Burn this”.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: love it! I love how social justice and liberty run straight through all his works.
opiejeanne
@J R in WV: Snapcase is mentioned in several books, especially in one (don’t remember which) when Vimes is dealing with his ancestor’s “sin” of regicide, the thing that needed to be done but no one else would do it and which had been treated like a curse on his family for every generation since.
Night Watch was published in 2002, so Terry had probably noticed Trump before then. Probably when Emperor Tang put that ad in The NY Times about the Central Park Five.
In my opinion Night Watch is his best book, but it’s a near thing.
narya
I could not seem to find the time & energy to read it before tonight (I’ve also been working my way through The Fall, or Dodge in Hell, AND I’ve been trying to watch all of The West Wing before it goes away. And work is very busy). That said, I DID buy it, and I’m a little ways into it, and it’s making me remember how much I usually enjoy Pratchett. I was working my way through them all at one point. I know they don’t have to be read in chronological order, but that’s how I do it anyway. I second James Earl Jones or Alan Rickman as the Voice of DEATH.
narya
@opiejeanne: Night Watch is what made me pick him up at all: someone somewhere mentioned the thing about shoes–that more expensive ones last longer, but if you can’t afford what it would take to get them, you end up with many more cheaper pairs, at overall greater cost.
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
Thanks for setting this up M^4. I would never have read this without the incentive of your announcement a while ago, I had tried to start reading some of the Disc World novels by reading Small Gods as some people here recommended, but I just couldn’t get into it. Now I really enjoyed the Hogfather and have read it twice. Which I think is necessary to even begin to get much of the satire and social commentary. I’ve also read and enjoyed Mort, which I bought for my Kindle sort of by accident. :-)
It’s hard to pick what I liked best, of course Death and Susan are both great. I did find the uncovering and refurbishment of Archchancellor Ridcully’s Bathroom to be great fun, I also liked the fact that the marble that Gawain got for Hogswatch “Wins all the games”.
Thanks again,
Mike S
I expect to keep getting some and keep enjoying them gradually over time. I don’t think I can really appreciate them if I binge read them.
opiejeanne
@narya: Vimes’s Economic Theory of Boots.
I have an online friend who is now ok financially, and I watched her struggle with that. Not paid well-enough to build up much in savings, and once you have a couple of hundred in the bank, the car needs repairs, because you’re driving a heap because you can’t afford a more reliable car (which also may cause you to lose your job).
ltelf
I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but “Death spat out the carrot” just tickles me. Every time I get to that point, I laugh and have to read the sentence at least three more times.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!): so happy to hear this! Thanks for reading along.
Cookie Monster
@RobertS: Not the BBC — Sky One (a Murdoch channel, no less!) did the live action Hogfather/Going Postal/Color Of Magic adaptations.
The animated ones (Wyrd Sisters/Soul Music) were in association with Channel 4 (UK, Govt funded but separate from BBC) and Cosgrove Hall (UK animation house, defunct sadly, also did Danger Mouse and Count Duckula).
Sky One has another one the way, I think…. and Amazon did Good Omens (Pratchett/Gaiman collaboration).
Ang
I just had to put the whole Boots theory here for one note (at the end).
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socioeconomic unfairness.”
It’s not just that you end up spending more, it’s that have a worse experience (wet feet) while doing it!
The most amazing thing about Pratchett to me is that despite just how clearly he saw people, his love of humanity still shows through.
Benno
I’m alone in Karachi this Christmas, so feeling a bit scroogey. I love Terry Pratchett’s books, and I started with Strata. But I hated Hogfather so much. My daughter, who was weened on Discworld, feels the same, I found out years later (since I never read it to her). And there is so much love for this book that I actually feeling guilty hating it as much as I do.
And obviously sounds like Christopher Lee’s Saruman, but more deadpan. At least we many of us seem to agree on this.
Richard
@OldDave: he sounds kinda like Jeeves.
Richard
@OldDave: i also think it is not written for people like me. We are not christians. It is not a boast or a challenge. Merely a statement of fact.
mapaghimagsik
@Major Major Major Major: MacBeth with more capering.
J R in WVpy
@Richard:
So… do you think all the admiring readers of Hogfather here are Christians? I’m not. Or even that you need to be Christian to love Christmas? My dad was less Christian than I was, yet worked his ass off organizing a Christmas Toy Fund for poor families — giving a Christmas to 3K or 4,000 kids every year.
I don’t see the point of the comment, nor anyone’s need to know your religious bent, in a discussion of a book about human nature.