Hawley of Missouri announced he’ll object to the certification of the Electoral College votes next week. David Plouffe thinks Hawley will have company in effecting a brief and pointless certification delay. Plouffe also predicts the spectacle will foreshadow a repulsive clown show in the next Republican primary:
Hawley willing to shred our democracy to improve his talking points for the inevitable QAnon Debate in Roswell, NM. They’ll all have to follow now. The 2024 GOP primary will be a race to the bottom like none we have ever seen.
— David Plouffe (@davidplouffe) December 30, 2020
There’s good reason to suppose Plouffe’s prophesy will come to pass. Even elite invertebrate Marco Rubio is attempting to bolster his anti-elitist cred by slapping an 80-year-old physician around. It would work better if Rubio managed to land blows on Fauci instead of punching himself in the face, but Marquito’s pathetic antics aside, he does have an unerring instinct for following his party down identity rabbit holes, having latched onto and discarded every dominant strain of Republicanism in its turn.
There’s an interesting piece in The Atlantic that explores UC Berkeley sociologist Arlie Russell Hochschild’s theory about Trumpism, i.e., the narrative Trump cultists perceive in our political drama, and how that might evolve when the object of veneration is sulking in Palm Beach rather than the Oval Office:
Hochschild is telling us that Trumpism is not just a garland of public-policy proposals that any other Republican can drape around his or her neck. And it is more complex than a personality trait, or a talent for saying mean stuff on Twitter. Rather, Trumpism is an emotional planet that orbits around Trump’s star. Breaking the connection between Trump and the better part of the GOP will require either that Trump disappears (an unlikely proposition) or that a larger star emerges from the Republican backbench (also unlikely).
At the end of our conversation, I asked Hochschild what she’s learned from the past four years. “I used to think of political identity as something more solid,” she said. “I now think of political identity as like water that’s always going somewhere, that needs to go somewhere, but where it goes depends on the lay of the land, the rock formations that stand in its way,” she told me. She’s still waiting to see where Trump moves the mountain.
Somehow, this made me feel better. I’ve been pessimistic about America ever since the election. I’m overjoyed that we’re getting rid of the buffoonish monster, of course, but it’s distressing that 74 million people voted for four more years of chaos and calamity. Or, to put in more accurately, 74 million voters no longer recognize chaos and calamity when they see it.
Hochschild’s quote about political identity as a fluid thing sounds right, but that said, I think it’s possible Trump won’t “move the mountain” at all. He’s a lazy fuck, for one thing, an obese, 74-year-old man with a poor diet and habits. He doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself, so it’s hard to imagine him putting serious effort into grooming a successor. From Trump’s perspective, even Ivanker is just a reflection of his own greatness, not really a separate person with ideas of her own.
So, absent any credible sluices to channel it forward, maybe Trumpism just stagnates, like a fetid bog, while the country surges past it. Maybe we’ll be living in such a different reality three years from now that the thought of GOP primary contenders aping Trump will seem preposterous. I don’t know about you, but that possibility cheers me up a bit.
Open thread.
Data quality, marginals and COVID
Hildebrand
I imagine Trump will undercut even those who claim to be his successor – including his own progeny. He just won’t be able to allow anyone else to claim ‘his’ spotlight.
jc
If the seditious Rs take that step, Jan. 5, their asses should be on the line. If you go for the “king,” then you pay the price when it fails.
Cheryl Rofer
My argument has been that once Trump is out of the limelight and an alternative model of behavior is available, people will move out of that orbit. It’s not exactly Hochcshild’s, but similar. I was glad to see her analysis too.
tom
I don’t know. I think many of the 74 million recognize chaos and calamity and purposely voted for it.
gene108
It’s really up to Twitter, if Trump fades.
If they enforce their terms of service and ban him his favorite platform is gone, and his reach diminishes.
Without whacky tweets, reporters won’t have ready made content to fill air time or articles with “what’s Trump tweeting now”.
But I’m not optimistic Republicans will change. Whatever post-Trump changes occur will be cosmetic. They will all still operate in bad faith. The only thing I can be hopeful for is the infrequent racist voter gets bored with regular Republican racist dog whistles, and goes back to not voting.
PJ
I think your take is accurate. There isn’t “another Trump” in the GOP right now, so, as you say, a lot of that political water will pool around Trump’s obese carcass, where he will continue to grift as long as he lives, and the pilot fish will have to follow. The Republicans have no ideas beyond tax cuts and no instincts beyond “austerity”, racism, sexism, etc., and being against whatever Democrats are for, so I don’t think they are going to gain any traction politically in the immediate future. If they win in Georgia, they can continue to obstruct and to blame that obstruction on Democrats. That’s been a successful strategy in the past, and it will continue to be successful as long as the media supports that narrative (and right now there’s no indication they won’t).
Cheryl Rofer
Some good news for the Defense Department.
PJ
@Cheryl Rofer: Who is going to move Trump out of the limelight? The media loves him. And every investigation into his crimes will be more fuel for his whining, which they will gladly amplify.
laura
The Republican party is a tapeworm. Each extruded segment is disgustingly foul. Their policies are so off putting, you can’t run on them so they relying on cheating in every possible way. They suppress the vote, restrict access to the polls and demonize the opposition. And then one of them dies and we’re expected to show some regard for their loss. And yet, they persist.
MattF
Hawley is only doing what comes naturally— if you’re smart, cynical, and power-hungry. However, maybe he should take a closer look at what happened to Trump’s rivals in 2016.
gene108
@jc:
The only people that can make Senators pay a price are the voters in their states. I doubt Sen. Hawley will lose support for this.
Brachiator
It’s not just about Trump. A chunk of Americans got a taste of populist white racist autocracy, and decided that they liked it. We may see more of this in the future, and it does not depend on whether the Orange Irrelevancy tries to make a come-back in 2024.
Trump is trying to bring about on a national scale, what was last done in the post-Reconstruction South, invalidate votes and elections and install a vengeful Republican (white minority) government.
It is despicable that anyone supports Trump in this craven attempt to overthrow democracy, but this is where we are. And getting back to normal from crazy will be difficult.
But the hard, brutal fact is that every federal, state, and local official backing Trump is aiding and abetting the overthrow of the Republic, based on groundless conspiracy theories. They should all be forced to resign, but of course, will probably all stay snugly safe in their positions.
I also would guess that soon after the inauguration, McConnell will deny ever having met Trump.
gene108
@tom:
I think they feel this is what freedom and success look like. We do not share the same reality.
Snarki, child of Loki
I expect that sometime in the next couple of years, Trump stops tweeting and stays out of public view for a couple of weeks.
While Jared is frantically googling “taxidermists”
karensky
The Republicans have been racing to the bottom since the campaign of Ronald Reagan.
PJ
@Snarki, child of Loki: Trump is going to have his own network or weekly TV/radio show. As long as he lives and is not behind bars, he is not going away.
cope
Personally, speculation about what the future does or doesn’t promise does not move me. Maybe because I am old, I am moved by what I see going on around me right now. What I see does not fill me with optimism. Here’s hoping I am totally wrong.
germy
Death Panel Truck
If Trump isn’t in prison, living in whatever foreign country will take him, or dead of a stroke triggered by the Mickey D’s, Burger King, and Wendy’s slop he eats every day, he’ll run again in ‘24. He’ll file for election on January 21, so he can do his rallies and continue the grift. Adoration is his heroin, and rallies are his fix.
Major Major Major Major
The WaPo has a fun understated description of the futility of Hawley’s decision: “a move that all but guarantees at least a short delay”
As for what the Republican Party will look like in four years, fuck if I know.
germy
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Trumpism is everything that everybody can hate about conservatism the United States distilled to its purest essence.
It is mindless jingoism, defiantly derisive of rational analysis, disdainful of expressions empathy for marginalized populations, disdainful of the the benefit of scaled public services, worshipful of the trappings of wealth, disdainful of those whose work or hobbies provides satisfaction without regard to compensation. It is greedy, deliberately ignorant, reckless and “in the moment”.
gene108
@Brachiator:
Other than ramming through judicial nominations, McConnell has carefully kept away from carrying water for Trump.
All negotiations for anything major from budget deals to stimulus bills are between Pelosi and Mnuchin.
He just waits till they work out something before coming up with an excuse as to why Pelosi is not willing to meet Senate Republicans concerns or why she rejects their proposals, even if Mnuchin and Pelosi strike a deal.
Betty Cracker
@karensky: Truth. What @Brachiator said at #12 — that Trump gave voters a unique taste of white ethno-nationalism — is also true. This says terrible things about millions of our fellow citizens, and that’s not good. But maybe Trump’s would-be successors won’t be able to recapture the “magic.”
Ruckus
Groom a successor?
shitforbrains?
He’d have to give up 74 years of intense stupidity, which he’s never been able to before in his entire life. Not gunna happen.
PaulWartenberg
I’ve blogged about this earlier. The current Republican movement has devolved into a game of “No *I* Can Be Crazier Than Thou” wherein one delves ever deeper into the batshit to appeal to the trumpian voter base addicted to conspiracy fumes, forcing the other hopeful would-be GOP kings to delve even deeper than THAT. In short: It’s trumps, all the way down.
gene108
@Major Major Major Major:
It will be crazier and more radically right-wing.
To moderate means they have to admit a mistake, and two things their voters will never forgive an elected Republican for doing are compromising with Democrats, and admitting they were wrong.
Soprano2
Many of my fellow Missourians will love him for this.
Punchy
As someone elsewhere said: Hawley is ostensibly doing this to promote himself for 2024, but if this gambit were to work, there wont be any 2024 elections. If Trump somehow were to pull this off, there’s no way some fancy Constitutional Amendment about term limits is going to stop him. And why bother with elections if the will of the people dont matter?
So Josh is trying hard to break democracy, in order to later participate in democracy….that wont exist. I’m guessing he hasn’t thought this thru.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: I get the impression that Trump actually believes in Herrenvolk socialism, while the people like Cotton and Hawley believe in Herrenvolk austerity-kleptocracy. I don’t think they’ll be able to capture the same enthusiasm? Not that Trump isn’t a klepto, but he loves brash redistribution as long as his name is all over it and it goes to the right people.
@Punchy: if this gambit “works” Nancy Pelosi will be president.
Annie
Molly Ivins used to say that a successful presidential candidate had to have a touch of Elvis — which I take to mean a kind of charisma that ordinary political figures just don’t have. I think Trump got that Elvis from his celebrity from (1) his self-promotion as a successful businessman – which many of his followers believe he is*, and (2) the long TV run of The Apprentice. None of the other GOPPers have the kind of zing those 2 things created for Trump and I’ve always thought that was a big part of his appeal.
And even with that he lost the popular vote twice.
*and yes, I know he wasn’t a success at business. I’m talking about how his supporters view him.
PJ
@Brachiator: Trump is the first national politician to overtly embrace white supremacy since George Wallace. For the people who have been waiting for it, he is their Lord and Savior and there is no other.
As we have seen, this is not a winning electoral strategy nationally, but combined with voter suppression and other undermining of elections, it can get them very close.
West of the Rockies
@MattF:
Yes, punchable Josh is performing his grand monologue, thinking it will open doors to greatness. Nothing will come of it other than marking himself as an imbecile.
MattF
@Major Major Major Major: Trump certainly promises redistribution, but neglects to mention that it means redistribution into his own pockets. And into the pockets of his pals. See, e.g., Putin et.al.
mary s
I haven’t read the Hochschild article (I don’t have a subscription) but the excerpted stuff doesn’t do much for me. I’m not sure exactly what she means when she says political identity is fluid — sure, I guess, people like a bit of novelty in their politics, but most Republican voters (including several of my relatives) remain planted firmly on a bedrock of white supremacy, and that is the key to Trump’s success. This is something that Hochschild and many others seem unwilling or unable to examine.
Relatedly: What the heck is “the better part” of the GOP?
jonas
But that’s the problem, right? We may get someone who *behaves* more normally, isn’t outwardly so bufoonish, but will still be peddling the same vitriolic, authoritarian populism: A Ted Cruz, a Tom Cotton, a Mike Pompeo, or, of course, Hawley himself.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
I doubt Trump’s successors can capture Trump’s white ethno-nationalism, because white supremacy and fear and disdain for blacks and Latinos is something Trump truly deeply believes in the very core of his being.
I doubt other Republicans, like Hawley, truly have such deep seated racism. Rubio and Cruz, along with Bush, during the early Republican primaries in 2015 were debating who spoke Spanish the best.
McConnell is married to a woman from either Taiwan or China.
Others can’t capture the essence of Trump, because his racism and vindictiveness is truly the only honest thing about him.
JoyceH
@tom:
Okay, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I just have a lot of trouble believing that Trump really got 74 million votes. I don’t have a shred of proof, but I can’t help suspecting that the reason Trump was so sure he ‘won’ and so enraged by the results is that HE ‘stole’ the election – he just didn’t steal it ENOUGH.
Can anyone honestly believe that Trump got 11 million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016? Does anyone know or know of anyone who didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 but did vote for him in 2020? Even anecdotally? Blog posts, tweets, letters to the editor, conversations overheard in the grocery store? Maybe there are some stone cold racists who’d checked out of electoral politics altogether because neither party was racist enough for them, but I just can’t believe that would add up to ELEVEN MILLION.
And there were plenty of people going public with the fact that they voted for Trump in 2016 and know better now – so he LOST some of his original voters and would have to replace them somehow.
So I can’t help but think that votes were jiggered or invented in jurisdictions where that would be possible, and in any other election that would have been enough. 74 million votes is 8 million more than Hillary got, is the most votes ANY presidential candidate has ever received — except for Joe Biden.
I think what happened was that an attempt to steal an election was just overwhelmed by the popular revulsion that swamped the phony votes.
Maybe I’d just rather believe that than believe that Trump actually gained votes over 2016, that ANYONE other than his original base could look at the last four years and go, ‘boy-howdy, give me some more of that!’.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Punchy: Or he sees it as savvy kabuki theater. Treasonous scum doesn’t understand (or care, more likely) how dangerous these actions are.
Barbara
I don’t want to predict anything, but it’s less than clear to me that Trump’s schtick has ever worked for anyone but Trump. Reagan and George W. Bush were genial and duplicitous about their right wing tendencies. It’s not that I think the white supremacy movement that has exposed itself to sunlight under Trump will go away, it’s just not clear to me that it will be successfully harnessed by a politician who can simultaneously appeal to enough other voters.
feebog
@Death Panel Truck:
Some big “ifs” there. I personally think he is going to be nailed on tax fraud charges by the state of New York. But I’m OK with a massive heart attack as the alternative.
gene108
@gene108:
I’m not joking.
Ford’s loss begat Reagan and the alliance with the religious right. Bush, Sr.’s loss begat Gingrich. Bush, Jr.’s failure and McCain’s loss begat the Tea Party and Trump.
Trump’s loss is going to create a heretofore unimaginable level of crazy.
ballerat
I’m inclined to think they do understand it is chaos. And as for calamity they see hitting it Those People much harder — and they’re not much wrong — so they cheer it. And as regarding covid specifically they see the odds as very good it will not affect them personally. Again not wrong.
In short they are very willing to trade a half million or even millions of deaths, an economically developed country and a democracy for their own white privilege.
It’s an existential war. They see chaos and calamity as “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
Or as Lincoln put it, they are embracing rule or ruin — and they still believe they will get to rule the ruin.
Punchy
@Major Major Major Major: Are we sure about this? I’ve read something about each state’s legy’s party gets to vote who becomes president, and being there’s more R states than D states, they’d vote in their own. Or am I confused about this?
Mart
@gene108: The lying POS beat McCaskill largely on an ad with him and his family saying his son has a pre-existing condition and nobody will work harder to protect pre-existing conditions than JH. All the while one of the red state AG’s working to kill the ACA. That case is still going, now with Trump’s SC…
Edit The local paper rated Hawley’s pre-existing lie as true, as Hawley told them the R’s have a plan to make the ACA more better.
Spinoza Is My Co-pilot
I think all that will really matter for the presidential election in 2024 is how well — or how poorly — the economy is doing. The GOP primary will, of course, be a race to the bottom, but that’s exactly what it was in 2016. Whoever is most Trump-like will likely win the nomination (there’s an outside chance that’ll be the vile buffoon himself).
I don’t see the GOP electorate accepting anything “less” — Trump (the Bizzaro-world version our fascists perceive, not the phony and malignant moron we know him to be) has levels of support and worship that even St. Ronnie never had, like not even close. The fascists will insist on someone who they can at least pretend is Trump-like, they’re not “going back” to any “old establishment” types like Romney.
Whether another fascist demagogue with anything like Trump’s charisma and appeal (remember, Bizzaro-world, for them it’s quite real) is found or not, the main thing for November 2024 is going to be the economy. If it’s doing well, even the Second Coming of Trump won’t win the presidency. If it’s not, even a pale-imitation Trump likely wins. Cuz America.
PJ
@Major Major Major Major: Trump “believes” in socialism (Herrenvolk or otherwise) as much as he “believes” in the GOP, the Constitution, independence of the Justice Department, the sanctity of contract, the rule of law, or a semblance of human decency. If he can work it to his benefit, fine; if not, burn down as much as he needs to get his way.
MattF
@gene108: That’s an important point. Trump is a genuine racist, and his followers know that.
Subsole
@Major Major Major Major:
It depends on whether we fix the media. With a functioning, honest media that reports facts on the ground, treats lies as lies rather than the other half of the argument, actually manages ro compare what Repukes said yesterday to what they said today…well, McConnell’s song and dance gets harder. A large part of the problem is Dean Baquet and co. I am jot hopeful on that front.
Otherwise, depends on whether the next suicide bomber kills any white people.
stinger
This really struck home for me, Betty. Of course, Americans, abetted by the media, have an extremely short-term outlook and don’t pay much attention to agency staffing, the disappearance of regulations and norms, and our ability to have our diplomatic and economic negotiations treated with respect. Much of the chaos and calamity is still in the future, because it takes a while for things to fall apart when the ship of state is so large and we’re living on residual good will.
Major Major Major Major
@Punchy: that’s if nobody gets to 270. In the event of shenanigans, all Pelosi has to do is procedural delays, nobody will get any electoral votes because the process won’t complete, and she will become acting president
Greg Doucette has a good video on this that I’m afraid you’ll have to look up
in this case though I doubt the senate will uphold Hawley’s objections so it doesn’t matter
Another Scott
@gene108: Moscow Mitch has actively blocked some of Donnie’s stuff, also too. E.g. he said Donnie’s “Infrastructure Plan” was not going anywhere (even before he took office, IIRC).
As Adam says, Moscow Mitch is good at blocking stuff (and ramming through judges). He’s viscerally opposed to the government actually promoting the general welfare of Americans.
That’s it.
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Annie: Yup, that’s unique to Trump. Trump isn’t a politician, so he could portray himself as an outsider(he could drain the swamp).
randy khan
Not that I want this to happen, but a post-presidency world in which Trump continues to drive the party – and particularly where his tweets continue to make news – is not necessarily a good one for the Republicans. What they don’t want is for the midterms to be another referendum on Trump without Trump on the ballot, as this is what hurt them in 2018.
On the other hand, if Trump fades away, then the Republicans have to figure out an identity and, as Annie says above @31, none of the ones we see on the national stage have any Elvis in them. It’s one reason for his success in 2016.
Go ahead, call me a cockeyed optimist. I can take it.
Roger Moore
I think they saw chaos and calamity, but they were happy because the chaos and calamity was falling harder on Those People than on them. It’s who they are.
Major Major Major Major
@PJ: nah I think he really does like Trump-branded largesse.
West of the Rockies
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Good points. Trumpism proudly (and wrongly) declares, “Everything I’ve got I worked hard for: no breaks, no cut corners–just pure wonderful me! Everything you’ve got has been a gift or stolen; everything you do is shoddy and stupid and corrupt, and it threatens my welfare and happiness.”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@gene108: Speaking of Turtle and Trump, I do wonder if Turtle is fighting that 2K check just to screw with Trump. All these guys have massive egos, so it must just be hell of annoying to them listing to Trump beat his chest constantly.
West of the Rockies
@gene108:
For sure. Republicans didn’t even bother to change their platform for 2020. There will be no post-election “autopsy” either. Republicans will attempt (already are) to appear concerned about deficits, but this time, I think Democrats are prepared to effectively fight back. That is my hope.
Jay
@Spinoza Is My Co-pilot:
the US Economy, (the actual economy, not Wall St. and the Banks), will still be crawling in 2024.
Old School
@JoyceH:
I suspect my nephew is one if that makes you feel any better.
MattF
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I think McConnell’s primary concern is keeping his caucus together. That’s necessary whatever happens in the GA runoff, given that there are a handful of R senators who may not follow his orders.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Betty Cracker: Trump is a political black swan between the 80s nostalgia, the persona he spent 40 years of being a successful businessman\streetwise tough guy with all his failing pre-excused when he really is just an improv actor with a decent fan base that has nothing to do with politics. I really can’t of think of anyone else who has anything like that combo.
stinger
@JoyceH: Word. Every word. Trump’s frantic accusations of election fraud reek of projection. And all attempts to prove/disprove fraud have been focused on Democratic votes. I need evidence, but it wouldn’t take much.
Major Major Major Major
@JoyceH:
More than a few, all Latino and Vietnamese, including my FIL who is now anti-vax because he’s been hanging out in Vietnamese language group chats (also a big vector for trump support)
Subsole
@MattF: He’s basically America’s Mobutu.
JoyceH
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I saw a Trump voter being interviewed and she explained that she knew he was a great businessman because she’d seen every episode of The Apprentice.
Roger Moore
@PJ:
The grim reaper will come for him eventually, and his cousin Alzheimer’s will probably come sooner than that.
Elie
Well, in any case, afternoon of Jan 21 a process server from New York, will have no trouble finding the former president wherever he is, and handing him the document charging him with a variety of state crimes — assuming that he is in the country. Don’t be surprised if some of the offspring are also served for their own shenanigans, if not that day, soon after.
Where can he go, though? Are the Saudis and UAE gonna be willing to take the heat for sheltering him from prosecution? Israel? Naw, the only place he can go where he can resist being extradited is Russia. Now wouldn’t look nice? The brats have few options as well.
Yeah, its fun times for the crook and his cronies in Congress but the worm is gonna turn and its not gonna be so much fun in the pretty near future…
The Moar You Know
@JoyceH: Easily. Those fuckers were crawling over broken glass to do it.
@JoyceH: Yes. Again, they wanted two scoops of what he was dishing up.
You live in a bubble, and I don’t mean that badly. Most of us do. Wish I did. Wish I could. It is hard to grasp what the orange fucker means to the remnant unless you’ve got some of them in your own family. Which I do.
JoyceH
@Roger Moore: I may be in the minority, but I honestly think that once out of office he’s going to fade almost as quickly as Sarah Palin faded.
Subsole
@jonas: Except those three have negative charisma. They’re an incredible combination of oleaginous and wooden.
Baud
Race of the Asses is also acceptable.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: somebody said on twitter last week that McConnell is one of the few people trump is afraid of. I don’t think that’s true, but I do think, in part cause he doesn’t want to be president, in part because he kept the Senate (I think to his surprise) and finally because he’s old, McConnell is the rare Republican who isn’t afraid of trump, doesn’t care about flattering him, doesn’t fall for his schtick or even pretend to be charmed or impressed. And I suspect that drives trump crazy.
ballerat
@PJ: Yes. He goes away after he dies. Even in the last stages of dementia someone will ghost-tweet for him, keeping the base on planet Trumpism.
And even then I wonder. See: Herman Cain.
Suzanne
Right now, if you had to ask me how I felt about it, I think I would say that the true devotees of Trumpism are going to splinter. Some will find someone new to follow — Hawley and Marquito might each get a sliver — and some will just lose interest in politics altogether. I don’t know at this point who stands a chance of recreating the Trump coalition. Just like it took us at least one cycle, and utter catastrophe, to figure out a new coalition of our own.
However, just because that energy is splintered and therefore diluted doesn’t mean it’s gone.
I hope that one lesson our side takes from this is that, for a significant number of voters, policy and positions doesn’t matter even a little bit. Like Hochschild says, political identity isn’t fixed. It is for us, much more so, because we follow this inside baseball. But I feel like the people who really understand visual culture, psychology, sociology, etc. understood this era and Trump’s rise a lot sooner and a lot more deeply than the political pundit class, or the lawyers, or the consultant types.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MattF: There are primary concerns and personal indulgences. These guys aren’t 2D Bond villains (though Turtle comes awfully close) so simple spite is always possible. Josh was pointing out it’s odd Turtle is blocking those checks since they would likely help the GOP in the Georgia Run Off.
Subsole
@JoyceH: Well, then we should totally let them have their investigation into the 2020 elections.
Knowing these clowns, they’d out themselves.
rikyrah
While his punk azz ran to get that vaccination, didn’t he?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sort of fits my theory, Turtle knows Trump is afraid of him and there is nothing more fun and satisfying than bullying a bully.
different-church-lady
Not so much a race to the bottom as desperate exploratory mining, trying to find the next fracture line that they can drive a wedge into. Trump has such a natural instinct for how to trigger and leverage the lizard brain. It’s going to be difficult for others to replicate that effect, and one of the only ways they can feed the beast he brought to maturity is to go even bigger. But they don’t know how to do it, because they don’t have the Trump recipe for getting sociopathy and instinct in perfect balance. So there’s gonna be a whole lot of experimenting, and the entirety of it is going to involve volatile compounds.
That’ll be a whole lot worse than a race to the bottom, because a race to the bottom implies there’s a bottom that is known. What we’re going to see is the attempted creation of entirely new bottoms.
marcopolo
In case anyone wants to read the comments about Hawley’s statement in the “hometown” newspaper (not his though as he only seems to own a house in DC atm), here’s a link to the article in the St Louis Post Dispatch.
Elie
@Suzanne:
I agree. Most of the “contenders” are weak sauce… I predict none of them can take a punch continuously like Trump and none are as practiced in really generating a criminal enterprise like Trump did. Not even his kids. Its gonna be like watching the death star blow up in slow motion… There is not gonna be enough of the right fuel to keep it going, though many will try.
Baud
Since Biden got over 81 million votes, maybe we should spend some of our energy focusing on how to build upon Bidenism?
p.a.
If 74 million voters can look at tRump and say “shit yeah!”, exposing themselves as idiots, what make anyone think another talented politician can’t pull it off? They want to believe.
Suzanne
@Brachiator:
Oh yes.
Within ten years, I predict that very few people will admit to having voted for him at all…. and it will be considered impolite bordering on completely humiliating in most social circles to “out” someone as a Trump voter.
So I hope everyone’s been taking screenshots of their Facebook feeds.
I’m not very nice.
Elie
@Baud:
I think that he is building on it every single day common sense and guts come out of his mouth. Like talking and helping us think about how hard its gonna be to get those shots out quicker. The truth without panic. 100% mensch. You watch…. he is gonna be ok and we are gonna be ok. The spell will start to be undone on Jan 21 but right now, we have to get ourselves through this….
Another Scott
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
But is it though?
1) Moscow Mitch has shown on several occasions that he doesn’t know how to count votes. (Most infamous example, McCain’s vote on killing Obamacare.)
2) He may figure that Georgia is baked and nothing he does will change the outcome (and he expects the GOP to win there). So there’s no risk in him killing the $2000.
3) He may figure that Georgia is baked and nothing he does will change the outcome ([and Warnock and Ossoff will win] and he doesn’t care because he’ll just retire if he’s no longer Majority Leader). But he’ll have kept the US government from actually helping people and that’s enough of a reward for him (until he starts collecting those sweet, sweet checks from his oligarch funders for doing such a good job for so many years)…
It’s not at all surprising to me that Moscow Mitch isn’t helping Perdue and Loeffler – he doesn’t care about them 1/10th as much as he does about punching down.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Lapassionara
@Punchy: That’s only if the election is sent to the house because it is a tie. That is not what is happening here. This is a formal electoral vote counting process.
Jay
Subsole
@ballerat: O Jesus they are gonna Herman Cain his ass, aren’t they.
West of the Rockies
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Limbaugh might have made a go, but is just waiting to “assume room temperature” (as he likes to say).
Subsole
@rikyrah: Probably got two while he was there…?
Baud
@Elie: There’s not really much else to get through at this point. The government funding bill is signed, the NDAA veto will be overridden, and in the unlikely event we get the $2000, that’s just gravy that we didn’t expect a week ago. The GOP will go through their kabuki but Biden will be sworn in on Jan 20. We can’t control Trump’s actions so there’s no point sweating them.
Suzanne
@JoyceH:
I tend to agree with you. He’ll be a sideshow for a bit, and those always get old.
Roger Moore
@JoyceH:
Your theory of vote stealing doesn’t make sense. If you look at the numbers in detail, Trump got a lot of extra votes in places where they wasn’t anyone to be stealing them for him. For example, look at his numbers in San Francisco. He got more votes there in 2020 than in 2016, both on an absolute basis and as a percentage of votes cast. He still did very poorly, but his numbers still went up. Who precisely was stealing votes for him there?
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Oh, lil’ Marco in his two-inch heeled boots elbowed his way to the front of the line, shouting. “Do you know who I am?” the whole way.
stinger
@Baud: Yes, and thank you for consistently looking forward (something I’m not so successful at). How can we replicate his results in future elections, whether or not he’s a candidate? How can we Be Like Biden? WWJD?
The Moar You Know
These guys can do whatever they want, but it’s not going to fly with the voters who turned out specifically because of Trump. You cannot replicate the success of a cult of personality when that personality is no longer around, unless the purveyors of said cult have a long-term plan in hand (see Evil Korea, Kim family). And even regarding the example I just provided, it’s actually not working out that well for them.
Given that Trump does not do planning and has no interest in anything that happens after his bloated carcass takes its last breath, I’m not worried that the GOP will be able to find or manufacture a replacement. 2024 for the GOP is going to be a disaster. Failure at best; laughingstock at worst.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Old School: I avoid talking politics with my fundie Catholic cousins, but they were angry about trump’s takeover of the party and called him a clown. I suspect in ’16 they wrote in Pope Benedict or Rick Santorum. I’m sure at least some of them were persuaded by Kavanaugh etc, but others might have been willing to vote for old Be Not Afraid Ashes on the Forehead Regular (White) Guy Joe
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
Agree. Trump was a celebrity before his run, and he earned a lot of cache with bad people by beating Hillary, who everyone predicted would win. All the would-be Trumps are unknown politicians who haven’t done anything of note.
Baud
@Baud: cache = cachet
Jay
Suzanne
@Elie: Trump scratched an itch for a lot of people that cannot be scratched by political activity, namely, he made low-status people feel better, relatively briefly, by irritating higher-status people. Even Hawley’s little stunt is just political activity. Those people don’t give even a fraction of a fuck about Senate votes or vaccine distribution or foreign policy. They give a fuck about feeling superior to minorities, women, and people who went to college. That’s it.
I don’t see anyone else on the horizon who gives human form to their stupid rage.
Roger Moore
@ballerat:
I don’t think they’ll manage to hold onto the base with ghost tweets unless they can find someone who can tweet in Trump’s voice. His current ghost tweeters don’t have his voice, and their tweets fall flat with the base.
MattF
@JoyceH: Bear in mind that Trump has forty years of practice chasing headlines in NYC. I assume he’ll find reporters who will be willing and eager to follow him around, and he knows how to keep them leashed. Unlike Palin, who rapidly fell into white-trash soap-opera mode.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Thank you. A lot of the GOP’s electoral success is predicated on our voters staying home. Biden’s victory is proof of what happens when Democrats go to the polls instead of bitching on FB.
Redshift
@Major Major Major Major:
No, it’s not. The “one vote per state” process only happens if it’s a tie, not if there’s some wingnut challenge.
For the wingnut challenges, what follows is a normal vote in each house, and the challenge is only upheld if both houses support it. Obviously, that ain’t happening in the House.
It appears the only things the wingnut grandstanding does are burning up time McConnell could be using to ram through more judges, and forcing Senate GOPers to choose between voting against democracy or voting against Trump, and failing either way.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I know, I am so tired of speculating about Trump.
Citizen Alan
@gene108: I was born 7 months into Nixon’s first term. With the possible exception of Ford (who really shouldn’t count), every Republican President of my lifetime has been worse than the one before. Hell, every GOP nominee has been worse than the one before.
Also, I am so glad Christmas is over, because I am almost positive that my sister voted for Trump. She shut down every political discussion that my nephew tried to start up, but she did let slip that her two biggest issues are “not letting in illegals that get supported by my taxes” and “not paying off anyone else’s student loans because, dammit, I paid mine off!”
Brantl
There is a mob that is made up of rancorous, spiteful people; this is Stump’s base.
jc
@Annie: If Trump has any charisma, it’s late Elvis. Resting on his brand, overweight, phoning it in.
Old School
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I avoid talking politics as well (especially with my wife’s side of the family). As for my nephew, he wasn’t old enough to vote in 2016, but had a Trump banner at his place in 2019. I haven’t seen him enough in 2020 to gain a sense of where he would have been leaning in November. Maybe he’s come to his senses.
Matt McIrvin
I’ve heard this one before. “The fever will break”? “Peak wingnut”? I have trouble believing it.
mrmoshpotato
Racing to where they already are?
Who can dig faster?
mrmoshpotato
Sweet payday for Steve.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato: Even though they’re not fascists, they are still Republicans.
Cameron
@Elie: Couldn’t he swing Brazil, too? IIRC, there’s no extradition treaty w/USA.
Redshift
@Baud: We should, and considering the gap between Biden and the downballot races, we need to figure out how to do it without the anti-Trump voters, who are probably going to vote Republican otherwise.
I hope Biden and Harris will be good at urging voters to be proud of what they accomplished, and keep voting in every election to build on it. That was my one big complaint with Obama; he turned OFA into an issue advocacy organization when we needed an ongoing campaign/organizing effort.
Searcher
I’m assuming it’s going to be one Respectable Elder Daddy and 20-30 howling monkeys throwing poo.
I’m not looking forward to the very real chance of one of those howling monkeys being President in 2025, but I am looking forward to how sad and confused the R.E.D. is going to be when he garners absolutely no support.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
This whole country has a late 1800s China feel – huge and wealthy, yet in a state of chaos and ripe for multipower peacekeeping and pillage while a rump government sits feebly in Washington. Japan and China can share West Coast duty, Mexico gets the mountains and desert Southwest and the EU and UN can keep NYC, NJ, Boston and Philly pacified. Aside from Cuban forces in South Florida more or less running a viceroyalty from Cedar Key to Key West, the rest will be subject to despotic state governors and local warlords scrabbling over scraps.
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: Why would you do an autopsy on an election you believe you “won”, that was stolen from you?
Feed the people outrage about the “theft” of the election. A whole lot of people with empty souls seem to run on fear, anger and outrage.
Major Major Major Major
@Redshift: Per wikipedia,
For a relevant example,
A tie is the *most likely* way to get to this point, but not the only one.
WaterGirl
@MattF: In my dreams, even if we don’t win two in Georgia, is that there is one fucking Republican somewhere who would rather join the dems than go through another 4-6 years of getting absolutely nothing done.
Who that might be, I don’t know. Bueller?
edit: But I think we’re going to win the senate races. Not feeling cocky about it, but I think that’s how it will shake out. The more lies they tell, the more motivated our side is.
sdhays
@Major Major Major Major: Well, that’s one way for the Republicans to get her out of the Speaker’s chair.
WaterGirl
The Georgia song that is in the Midas Touch ad yesterday sent that message to me, loud and clear. They are not trying to win over undecided, they are trying to turn out every last voter who believes in what we believe in. Democracy. Helping people. Government.
Which I find interesting, because last I heard there were 12-15% still undecided in Georgia. This makes me wonder if they don’t believe there are that many undecided at all.
The Moar You Know
@mrmoshpotato: THIS is why I don’t send them any money, never have, never will. I knew this had to be happening. The Lincoln Project is truly just another grift, except this time, we’re getting robbed, not Fox-watching oldsters.
This really ought to be front paged. WAY too many people here think the Lincoln Project is acting in our best interests.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Media spent 40 YEARS promoting Dump.
There’s a clip of Dump on youtube from 1980, when he’s 33 years old, and interviewer is saying he should be president because he could….. wait for it… run the country like a business. The very first time he ever appeared in the NY Times the writer said Dump resembled Robert Redford. Sure, Dump looks like The Sundance Kid. It was all decades of bullshit mythologizing. The low information voter was brain washed. Little Marco and Hollow Hawley won’t have that foundation.
mrmoshpotato
@Matt McIrvin: If anything has proven that ‘peak wingnut’ is a lie, it’s been these past four years, but especially 2020.
And I’ve only seen the toxic bubbles that float up from the fever swamp. I can’t imagine the shithouse-rat-nuts conspiracy theories that’re out there.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Exactimundo.
pamelabrown53
@mrmoshpotato:
Hah! No wonder Steve does so well with Room Raters.
Suzanne
Mr. Suzanne points out that Trump activated the nihilist cohort in a potent way that he doesn’t think anyone else currently on the political radar could do. He suggested Elon Musk as the type of person who might be able to activate this cohort again, but notes that Musk probably doesn’t want to…. because he has different personality deficits than Trump and doesn’t want approval from the same people. I think this is a solid point.
Also, I can’t see someone who is partnered with Grimes being a good channel for the white supremacist/MAGA by sending women back to the kitchen cohort. Obviously she is white, but she also doesn’t follow the same beauty standards, and that matters. Makes him less of an aspirational figure.
Brachiator
@The Moar You Know:
The anger existed before Trump. Here in Southern California, a couple of talk radio hosts kept noting, and abetting anger at immigrants. Here in California, where we depend on immigrants to do work and pick our crops.
And the anger was not just about Democrats. It was about chamber of commerce Republicans who talked about immigration, but failed to do anything about it. And of course, the bullshit about taxes not doing anything for white people, and money going to those who did not deserve it.
The anger rose long before Trump. He was just the first major figure to capitalize on it. He was the rich white man who was independent of all the elites. His initial promise was to “help” all Americans, but that swiftly changed. He was the white man’s avenger.
And Trump took early aim at the comfortable white establishment elite heir apparent, Jeb Bush. Chewed him up and spit him out.
The anger will still be there after Trump.
And in American political history, remember that Prohibition was based on anger, and a disgust at a political establishment that would not listen. The Prohibition movement did not care whether you were Democrat or Republican. If you opposed them, you would be punished and pushed aside.
Potential American demagogues know the formula, now. But it is being used elsewhere with some success. Brazil, India. Boris Johnson in the UK has essentially promised to disconnect the UK from the rest of Europe.
And in many ways, both Trump and Boris Johnson were clumsy, bumbling autocrats.
But they understood the anger.
The anger that is still there.
And remember, more people came out in 2020 to support Trump. They knew exactly what he was. And they wanted it.
If turnout had been lower, I might say, yeah, Trumpism is done.
But that ain’t what happened. Fortunately, many more people came out to kick Trump to the curb.
But the anger is still there.
MomSense
@PJ:
I submit that watching trump’s perp walk, trials, and sentencing would be payperview worthy. If, dog willing, we are all vaccinated by then, I will hold parties to watch that asshole get what’s coming to him.
Yuuge ratings. YUUGE!
hitchhiker
@Punchy:
What I’m not seeing is how he plans to appeal to the 81 million+ voters whose voices he is trying to muzzle in favor of the 74 million whose voices he wants to elevate.
I mean, if he thinks those 81 million don’t exist, that’s one thing. But I don’t believe he thinks that. My guess is that he’s betting on us to forget that he tried really publicly to call us cheaters, even when he knew better.
It seems like Republicans aren’t factoring in that for every cult45 person they get all excited, there are two anti-cult45-ers just as hyped up.
This shit enrages me, and I’m not alone.
WaterGirl
@Roger Moore: All I can come up with is that he was trying to pump up his popular vote in places where folks wouldn’t normally look for vote fixing.
edit: I believe that to this day it eats at him that he lost the popular vote.
Edmund Dantes
@PJ: without a pandemic it wins them the election potentially. Economy in better shape. Hell yes he might have cruised to re-election.
he never should have allowed McConnel or whoever to talk him out of stimulus before election. Biggest own goal.
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
I think Redshift’s point is that you only get to the point of throwing the election to the house if Hawley’s objection is sustained. That’s not going to happen, though, because it requires the agreement of both Houses and the House Democrats aren’t going to go for it. It’s purely a stunt.
mrmoshpotato
@The Moar You Know: Yup. As I said here many times before, I liked their ads, but fuck ’em all for their years of destruction.
I knew this was coming too.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: It’s very common to pay a bundle of money to the person/company that manages the advertising… are we sure that’s not what happened there?
I would never give them a dime, but I also believe that it’s a more complex situation than just paying 1.1 million to Steve Schmidt outright.
How much did David Plouffe earn in 2007/2008 related to Obama’s campaign? I don’t know, but I imagine it’s an exceedingly large number.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
Lucky for us, Musk was born a furriner (now, with three-three-three citizenships!) and I don’t think he can erase that fact with his billions.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
Actually, IIRC, Schmidt recently converted to the Dems.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: redshift’s response to me was very clear and they were incorrect.
As for the rest of the comment, yes, you and redshift and i are in agreement!
Edmund Dantes
@Major Major Major Major: my Vietnamese sis-in-law voted for him cause his name was on her stimulus check.
Trump got her that money. She doesn’t pay much attention to day to day politics. She’s a ripe one to pick off for the gop.
Ian
@different-church-lady:
Wow. That just about nails it.
Gin & Tonic
Pretty amazing vid from Buenos Aires here, following the legalization of abortion. I don’t know enough Spanish to make out what they are chanting, though.
Major Major Major Major
@Edmund Dantes: i read some interviews with latino trump swingers in the rio grande valley who said the same thing.
WaterGirl
@Baud: If you listen to Steve Schmidt on the podcast he does with David Plouffe, it’s clear that he is now a Democrat, that he really believes in democracy, and that he is fighting for his country.
It’s also clear that Schmidt plans to run for something. Perhaps he sees himself as the standard-bearer for the “New Republican Party” a few years down the road. I don’t know that for sure, but that’s what I believe is his goal.
RandomMonster
It would fitting if he died on the crapper eating jelly donuts.
germy
The actress who played Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island has died of COVID.
Dawn Wells. RIP
Baud
@germy:
Aw man, she was the prettier one.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: Interesting: A New Jersey native who lives in Utah, ex-McCain Republican running as a Howard Schultz Democrat against… Mike Lee (I can’t imagine Schmidt aiming lower or at a state office, but we’ve never met)? with Rick Wilson running his media? I wouldn’t bet on it, but it might be fun to watch
louc
@JoyceH: I unfortunately have lots of evangelical/Southern Baptist relatives and some of them were lukewarm about Trump in 2016 and sat out the election. This time they were enthusiastic about Trump because he did keep his promises to the evangelical wing of his base. He nominated pro-life judges, he stripped Obama’s LGBTQ-rights executive orders, and put in provisions to “protect” their religious views. It’s strictly transactional on his side, but they now view him as godly, as sickening as that is.
SFBayAreaGal
@Baud: Thank you
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: @Baud: and the final insult, MaryAnn dies and Ginger is trending on twitter
ETA: and it was labelled as “politics”, so I don’t know how that shit works
oatler.
RIP to her intermittant belly button.
Brachiator
@Edmund Dantes:
I thought the name of the check was just stupid vanity. I didn’t think that it would mean so much to so many people.
However, I absolutely believed that Trump was smart to endear himself to the public by stealing the idea of direct stimulus payments from the Democrats. Mainstream Republicans all opposed it. But they had to back Trump.
BTW, this is why it will be hard for any Republican to emulate Trump. Most of them are stuck firmly in right wing dogma.
Trump doesn’t belief in anything other than himself.
Roger Moore
@WaterGirl:
It’s not the why I’m talking about but the how. How exactly is Trump supposed to have stolen a bunch of votes in the most liberal areas of liberal states? Who in San Francisco was supposed to be helping him? Nobody at the state or local level had any reason to manipulate the vote in his favor. And it’s not just San Francisco. Who was supposed to be stealing votes for Trump in New York County, Bronx County, or Multnomah county?
The flip side is true, too. Why was Trump bothering to steal votes in red counties in red states he was guaranteed to win anyway? The whole thing is just a crazy conspiracy theory. It seems much more likely to me that there were lots of people who genuinely liked what Trump was doing and came out to vote for him in 2020 than that he somehow managed to manipulate vote totals throughout the country but wasn’t able to steal the election.
PJ
@Baud: I think Biden is doing a good job of this himself with his VP and cabinet picks. But your point is well taken.
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Goddammit. Dawn Wells dies of Covid related ailments.
I liked both characters and both actors.
May she rest in peace.
germy
“Even on Gilligan’s Island they listened to the professor, not the millionaire”
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: COVID has been made political, therefore a famous person dying of COVID = politics.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@hitchhiker:
If he’s successful, how does he plan to survive what comes after?
JoyceH
@Brachiator: The Post obituary has a picture of her from 2004, so she would have been about the age that I am now – and dang, she looked good! (I shouldn’t have waited so long to start a skin care routine…)
Betty Cracker
@mrmoshpotato: You know who else is a giant grifter and has far less integrity than Schmidt? Amy Siskind. Google her pro-Palin, anti-Obama 2008 jihad some time. Just saying.
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Utah is an interesting state for the Democrats. The SLC area is surprisingly liberal, to the point that the Republicans have had to blatantly gerrymander to keep the Democrats from having a safe House seat. And it’s a state that is already more urban than most people realize and is likely to become more urban as time goes on.
Frankensteinbeck
Trump is and was the perfect avatar of white supremacy. He was not just wrong, but visibly stupid. He was not just angry, but mean, constantly an asshole even when it was unproductive. He was a pathetic, elementary school style bully. He punched down everywhere, constantly. He made everyone who wants equality miserable. He treated women and minorities with contempt, even when he was being superficially friendly about it, and he did it on camera, a lot. He was the drunk guy at the end of the bar, the racist relative you don’t want to invite to Thanksgiving.
The Republican base chose him for this. He fulfilled their hopes beyond their wildest dreams, because they didn’t want a wall, they just wanted him to be an asshole. They wanted to see their racist, ignorant, shithead selves when they looked at who’s in charge, and they wanted liberals to cry. They got it by the truckload, and they’re desperate and freaking out that it’s ending.
Nobody else I’ve seen in the GOP delivers this. Many are mean and stupid and racist, but none come close to how openly, honestly, and dramatically Trump was all those things. Incompetence like Trump’s is rare, and the base wants that incompetence.
But the thing is… all of those things are useless to Trump’s appeal if he’s not president. His voters liked him as the avatar of white supremacy. When he loses, he can’t be that anymore. He’s just another asshole. He doesn’t validate them. He especially doesn’t validate them because he failed them. He lost the most important battle. When the desperate hope for This One Weird Trick to overturn the election dies, so does any use Trump’s voters have for him. In theory he could rekindle it for a 2024 run, but whining about how he was cheated won’t do it, and that’s all he’s going to be willing to do in public for the rest of his life.
Trump is over. I don’t know where the Republican Party goes next. Nowhere good, but the landscape will look radically different in no way we can predict by 2024.
JoyceH
@JoyceH: Also from the Post obit –
Lapassionara
@Roger Moore: I would be interested in someone doing an analysis of the third party votes in 2020 as compared to 2016. I recall in 2016, there were about 7 million votes for either the Libertarian or the Green Party candidate. In 2020, I think there were maybe 3 million people who voted third party. My uneducated theory is that in 2016, a lot of people who would normally have voted for the Democrat voted third party, either because they did not like Hillary and thought she would win without their vote.
Anyway, the third parties seemed not as robust this year, for whatever reason.
Roger Moore
@louc:
It sounds pretty transactional on their side, too. They talk about him being Godly as a way of saying he’s doing what they want politically, not a judgment on his personal character.
Subsole
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Yeah, I played Fortress America growing up, too… fun boardgame. Interesting window into the American psyche, too…
More seriously, only Russia could even possibly find enough fifth-columnists (conservatives) to help hold ground/administer territory. Anyone else will be trying to eat an anthill. People, even the most rabid Bernie-ite Europhiles, are not rallying to the EU or China.
Also, too: Philly, pacified? Dude. These people threw batteries at Santa. The UN ain’t got a chance.
@MomSense: He’ll Shawshank Warden himself before he faces the music.
@hitchhiker: What they are counting on is the entirely reasonable and depressingly likely possibility tgat Americans roll over and go back to sleep 01/22/21.
Betty Cracker
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Man, I wish that didn’t ring true, but it does.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator: Plenty of Republicans running for office can emote the anger, few can be Trump. Trump had the “special sauce”: he is a celebrity, he’s a “successful” businessman and therefore smart, and he’s an outsider(not part of the swamp, so he’s a truthteller).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: I think the Dem just very narrowly lost that seat, and I believe the incoming and out-going (term-limited) R governor’s have both repeatedly told trump to stop the nonsense. OTOH, I remember when it was predictet that trump would lose the state in 2016 to that third party candidate whose name escapes me, Evan somebody? I wonder if Romney will run again. He could definitely make politics more interesting….
Roger Moore
@Frankensteinbeck:
Yeah, “vote for the guy who let the Democrats steal the last election from him” doesn’t seem like a great campaign strategy.
Bill Arnold
@JoyceH:
Definitely Trump picked up some support (e.g. there was some R increase in the Latino(a?) vote as noted above), though 11M seems high (to this Democrat), but if you want to fill this conspiracy theory in a bit, think corrupt areas where the Rs dominate the voting political apparatuses and statewide races, in battleground states (and Ohio and Florida), and look for significant differences in polling “error” in neighboring states. With Georgia as a focus for Republican (projection!) accusations because their powers that be know that GA’s Dominion machines aren’t rigged by them that Georgia’s Rs just did a lot of old-school voter suppression. If this really happened, the R Powers That Be would be terrified of machine audits in certain areas in certain states; probe them with some serious accusations, and calls for forensics with teeth, and carefully examine the reactions including any possible reactions on the ground like fires or floods or movement of machinery or etc.
I’m uncertain about the political effects of launching competing vote rigging narratives; perhaps bad, perhaps really bad. And without sufficient evidence supporting further investigating, it’s generally not a helpful exercise., depending on intent. (No real evidence is needed to quickly make millions of conspiracy theory believers; proven! So perhaps that was the R intent for Kraken.) But the scientist in me is curious (as is the observer of Republican politician statements); this election was exceedingly weird, and close at the electoral college level, and I would not be surprised if some massive Republican election fraud was uncovered.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Brachiator: “Trump is trying to bring about on a national scale, what was last done in the post-Reconstruction South, invalidate votes and elections and install a vengeful Republican (white minority) government.”
So much this. Trumpism is simply Reconstruction 2.0, a racial backlash to the first Black President just as Reconstruction #1 was characterized by a racial backlash to the ending of (formally recognized) racial slavery. The entire “conservative” movement is nothing more than a reactionary response to the threat to the American caste system.
Geminid
@JoyceH: I was surprised that trump got 7 million more votes this year. I was not shocked, though, and I think those votes were real. trump is very much lacking as a President and a human being. But he is an effective demagogue, and his demagoguery was effectively amplified through social and regular media. The Biden campaign was greatly outspent until September of this year. The trump campaign’s microtargeting of voters through social media helped him win in 2016, and it never stopped. These persuasive techniques are effective if not countered, or countered too late.
I’m just glad trump was such a shitty President. If he had been less lazy and more competent, we’d be in real trouble.
ballerat
@gene108: I think the refusal to admit mistakes, to admit one’s beliefs were erroneous, is at the core of trumpism. A person can’t change their mind until they accept what they believed was wrong.
White privilege requires an unsupported belief that white people are better than everyone else simply because they’re white. All the rantings of Mein Kampf and the Turner Diaries and the Protocols of Elders of Zion, and all the junk science of eugenics and phrenology et al. was invented to provide support for that egotistical belief.
No surprise then trumpalos are anti-science because the ability to admit mistakes is fundamentally necessary for real science. All the careful empirical observations in the world do no good if that data show you were wrong and you are unable or unwilling to accept it.
Kent
I think the libertarian vote in WI, GA, and AZ far exceeded the margin of victory in those states. One could make the argument that the libertarian party helped push Biden across the finish line in the electoral college, just like the Greens helped Bush in 2000 and Trump in 2016.
No one is making that argument right now because it doesn’t fit into Trumps voter fraud narrative. But one can easily make it. For example, Biden won Georgia by 11,779 votes while the Libertarians got 62,229 votes in Georgia and the Greens got 1013 votes. If the bulk of those Libertarian votes went for Trump he wins Georgia
Interestingly, most of the mainstream media election sites like CNN and Politico don’t show the 3rd party vote. I had to pull up Wikipedia to find it.
Mike in NC
We can only dream a little dream, can’t we?
Cacti
One of my biggest takeaways from the 2020 election is that I grossly overestimated the basic decency of Americans as a whole.
The fact that Trump improved his performance by 12 million votes chiseled it into stone for me.
NotMax
@gene108
Twitter has already announced that come noon on January 20 the POTUS45 account will be frozen as is and a pristine POTUS46 account will be offered to Biden, should he choose to avail himself of it.
So the Dolt will be relegated to his personal account, on paper at least an account given far less latitude than the one with ‘official’ status.
Roger Moore
@Lapassionara:
There was definitely a shift away from third parties this year. In 2016, third parties got about 5.75% of the popular vote; in 2020 it was more like 1.85%. That’s a huge drop-off, and it explains how Trump’s share of the popular vote went up even as his margin of loss increased.
Doc Sardonic
@Brachiator: Goes back to the old “Who signs your paycheck” trope. Yes, it also plays to Mango Mussolini’s vanity and ego, but reinforces to the not so well informed that he is a great man “he gave me money.” Never mind that without the pushing and fighting that was done by Nancy Smash and the rest of the democrats they wouldn’t have seen a dime.
Matt McIrvin
@Kent: For that matter, the Libertarian ticket hurt Trump more in 2016 than in 2020. Arguably he lost more to the third-party vote than Hillary Clinton did.
Subsole
@Kent: That is interesting. I know the Trumpers I see online are well and truly pissed at the Libertarian party.
Roger Moore
@The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:
Strictly speaking, you should be talking about Jim Crow 2.0 rather than Reconstruction 2.0. Reconstruction was the stage where blacks were given the vote and able to win elections. Jim Crow was the backlash against it.
Matt McIrvin
@NotMax: But Trump mostly kept using his personal account while in office anyway.
Brachiator
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
It’s not about the anger of the politician. It’s about the anger of the base.
And Trump is not that special. Yeah, celebrity helps. We have seen that before, right here in California. When there was an effort to recall Governor Davis, Darrell Issa thought he would be able to benefit. But a big celebrity, Arnold swept in and was able to channel all the dissatisfaction with Davis. But Arnold was not angry or resentful, just promised better.
So yeah, we have the path to success based on celebrity. But that is not the only way a demagogue can succeed.
ETA: I also recall how many wise heads among East Coast pundits thought that Arnold was a clown, the CA elections a clown show, and we would never see anything like that again.
And look at what happened.
BruceFromOhio
@The Moar You Know:
LOL, right? smh
Hoodie
@Roger Moore: Makes me wonder if this is what is motivating Hawley. Trump is moronic enough to think that this stunt on January 6 is useful, but it’s possible that it will only underscore that Trump is a loser. Hawley knows this is pointless, but maybe he sees this as a “Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ear” opportunity.
Cacti
@BruceFromOhio: Indeed.
The Lincoln Project is our friend, in the sense that Stalin was our friend in WWII.
Matt McIrvin
@BruceFromOhio: One of their Georgia runoff ads was actually pro-Trump–it was insinuating that the Republican Senate candidates had betrayed Trump’s effort to overturn the presidential election.
Which is not to say the Lincoln Project really believes that. It’s to say that they’ll say anything.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@BruceFromOhio: personally, I think a lot of people spend way too much time thinking about the Lincoln Project. They made some ads that mostly appealed to people who were already turned off by trump. They’re not secret agents or game-changers
Brachiator
@Hoodie:
That did not work out so well for Mark Anthony.
Ruckus
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
FTFNYFT built up shitforbrains because they both have the same concepts of humanity and money is the basis of that. trump always had his narcissism and money and the FTFNYT has always been just as full of itself and loved money. I imagine that the FTFNYT would deny this but that’s just one more thing that makes it FTFNYT.
Roger Moore
@Matt McIrvin:
I’m generally a bit skeptical that the third party vote really hurts candidates from the major parties that much. It assumes that the Libertarian voters would switch to Republican (or Green to Democratic) if that option were denied to them. I don’t think that’s how it works in practice. The people who vote third party are doing so as a protest, with their choice of third party being a way of expressing their political preferences. If they weren’t presented with the option they’d probably stay home or leave that race blank.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: Trump never used the POTUS account.
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
(Emphasis added.)
GHWB understood this (but wasn’t as craven as to think he could be president for life), with is change in withholding in 1992. It wasn’t enough to beat Clinton, of course.
Donnie doesn’t know how to do politics. Moscow Mitch doesn’t either – he just wants to prevent the government from doing anything to help real people.
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator:
Maybe my comment wasn’t clear, plenty of Republicans can speak to the anger in the base.
Lapassionara
@Kent: hmmm. Very interesting.
Hoodie
@Brachiator: Depends on how you look at it. He did get to hook up with Cleopatra.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Honestly, The Governator was much less of a clown than even a lot of his supporters expected. He had been politically interested for a long time before running- movies had lines about his political career for years- and he had some actual political ideas. He was actually able to implement some important political reforms. Most notably, he was a major proponent of moving to an independent redistricting commission, and he’s continued to advocate for redistricting reform since leaving office. I think California would be in a much better place if our Republican party had chosen to follow his example rather than go ever deeper into wingnuttia.
mrmoshpotato
Exactly, Rude. Exactly.
Scout211
My sister and BIL got their stimulus money deposited into their account today.
I thought that Mnuchin was bluffing when he said the first ones would go out last night. Wow.
Soprano2
@Mart: Remember how he said, when he ran for AG, that he wouldn’t use the position to “climb the ladder” to higher positions, completely with a bunch of commercials with ladders in them. Yeah, he was a lying POS then, and I knew it, but I was surprised at how fast he abandoned his promise and how little his supporters cared about it.
Kent
I think this year Trump was more toxic for some conservatives than Biden was for some liberals. So more people on the conservative end of the spectrum looked for alternatives. By contrast, the Green vote was at all-time lows for the modern era and very few liberals were seeking out alternatives to Biden. There was no “Never-Biden” or Lincoln Project on the left, for example (what would that be, the Jefferson Project?)
2016 was different. There was a lot of irrational Hillary hatred within the “woke” left with the Greens and Sandernistas. And the 3rd party vote hurt Hillary more.
So I think it depends on the year. When one party runs a particularly toxic or narrow candidate they are more likely to generate 3rd party votes from their side the spectrum. Which is not the same thing as assuming that all Libertarians would otherwise vote GOP and all Greens would otherwise vote Dem.
Keithly
@WaterGirl: He lost the popular vote twice.
Roger Moore
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I don’t think they can, because a lot of the anger in the base is against the party establishment. It’s not a coincidence that they guy who blew up the party was a political outsider who could convincingly claim to be opposed by all TPTB within the party. Draining the swamp was as much about the Republican establishment as it was about the rest of DC politics.
Kent
@mrmoshpotato: The happy talk is for general public consumption, not for the GOP. And it is probably the right thing to do at this point in his presidency. Talk about reaching across the aisle while governing with an iron fist.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl:
I could give a shit.
Fuck all of these “Never Trumpers” who made their fortunes peddling this toxic bullshit when it came from trash that knew what parts to yell and what parts of couch in weasel words and thinly veiled racism.
mrmoshpotato
@Kent: I know. The Rude Pundit is hoping Biden knows that too, and that he doesn’t really believe the flowery messaging about trying to work with these fascists.
Suzanne
@Roger Moore:
Yes agree. The anger is more amorphous. The anger is that there used to be a social order designed in their favor and now there isn’t. Now black people get more education and prettier wives and more money and more influence. Now women get their own jobs and money and therefore don’t need to marry any schmoe who deigns to show them interest. Now nerds who went to college have better lives.
The GOP isn’t a great vehicle for this anger. It’s still mostly sons of (white, moneyed) privilege who go to spendy colleges.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mrmoshpotato: if we take both seats in GA, we can crush them, at least as far as Angus King and Joe Mancin will allow
if McConnell is still majority leader, Biden will have to work with him
Mike in NC
@Kent: We got Trump because in 2016 millions of people in this country only wanted to vote for a white male. Any white male would have worked. Being white and male were Trump’s only qualifications. He expanded the base in 2020 by being a white supremacist and a proponent of police brutality directed at non-whites. Half the time I saw a Trump bumper sticker or yard sign, there was a “thin blue line” right next to it.
different-church-lady
@mrmoshpotato: As far as I’m concerned, he deserves it. Even if the whole thing was grift, it was highly beneficial to the continued existence of sanity.
Calouste
@Geminid: Part of his attraction is that he is lazy and incompetent, because conservatives are lazy and incompetent. Because if you’re in the ingroup (white, male, rich) obviously you are already better and “things come to you naturally”.
Wag
@gene108: The GOP allows you to admit to being written no, so long as your “error” was being too moderate, and you have now seen the error of your ways. Its an evangelical thing.
Suzanne
@Calouste:
Lazy and incompetent used to not be barriers to success, if you were a white dude.
There was a piece in the Atlantic (I think?) some months/years back called something like “When Did Life Become a Terrible Competition?”. It’s true. Life is much more competitive now, I think. I think a lot of white dudes are ill-equipped for the competition.
Meanwhile, every successful person I know who is a woman or a racial minority, always seemed to know that they would have to grind and grind and be better just to be seen as equal. Equipped for competition.
Captain C
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It’s probably some TikTok personality most people haven’t heard of yet.
VOR
@Suzanne: Elon Musk is not eligible to be President of the United States. He was born in South Africa to a Canadian mother and South African father, hence is not a native born US Citizen.
coin operated
@Frankensteinbeck:
This. And it tracks perfectly with Cole’s “They Hate You” post.
edited for clarity….
Roger Moore
@Kent:
I think we’re more or less in agreement. My big point is that “Hillary would have won if not for the Greens” or “Trump would have won if not for the Libertarians” is a ridiculous argument*. Voters who move from a major party to a third party are mostly doing it as a form of protest, and their problems with the major party candidate that trigger the protest wouldn’t go away if there weren’t a third party to vote for. Instead, they’d manifest in a different form of protest, like leaving that office blank.
IMO, the reduction in 3rd party vote in 2020 compared to 2016 is mostly about people having made up their minds about Trump. Skeptical Republicans decided he really was going to give them what they wanted, and Democrats who couldn’t bear to vote for Hillary- or who thought it was OK to protest because the election was going to be an easy win- decided it was more important to beat Trump than to register a protest.
*I will accept Gore in 2000 as an exception. Florida was close enough that even a tiny fraction of Nader voters moving to the Democrats would have swung the election.
Captain C
@Elie:
Doubtful. None of the rich people in those places want their own finances examined too closely, which would likely happen if Donnie flees there.
Not if Crooked Benny wants any support other than that already legally mandated.
I suspect that even Dim Donald knows on some level that he’d soon have some nice polonium-flavored McDonald’s, after which he’d jump out the 15th story window and land 20 feet from the building, if he goes to Russia. Although a promise of “Big Russian Trump Tower, right next to Kremlin” might distract him from these thoughts if he in fact does have them.
LongHairedWeirdo
Thank you! That’s an elegant restatement of my feeling that a lot of Republican voters are being fed just the right amounts of misinformation, to make everything horrible that Trump does seem like a litany of partisan complaints from Democrats (only).
Since they figure Trump is okay-enough (because Republicans endorse him) and only Democrats, and a few sorehead anti-trumpers, maybe with books to sell, make complaints – and those complaints are so horrible, they must be false. For example, “how DARE they say that nice Mr. Trump is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths!” Or, “how dare they say he broke the law, abused his office, and obstructed justice covering it up! The Republicans in the house and senate would *never* stand for that.”
It’s hard to accept, but most people are very low information voters, and even many who try to be informed are often getting fed enough BS that their hair ought to turn into (very green, mind you) grass.
This is the horror of a post-truth society. When a political party can’t even admit that Trump could have done more to protect Americans from Covid-19, there’s really no end to what lies they can stomach.
Suzanne
@VOR: I’m aware. But Elon Musk is a type of person, who I think has appeal to a certain other type of person, who proved to be integral to Trump’s election.
jl
So, we’re going to see Hawley, Cruz, and Rubio compete to replace Trump?
Anyone else?
It will be repulsive, but also hilarious. We’ll see whether Trump can retain his hold on the GOP base, when he is removed from the levers of power, and has to rely solely on rage, spite, and low grade stand-up comic patter to fill up his re-election campaign rallies.
Elie
@Brachiator:
Except what they saw in those four years was a man with powerful force of personality and willingness to demonstrate that he would do almost anything. He will not be in that power position after the 20th and he knows it Getting that magic without hands on that actual power and authority aint gonna be the same. So yeah, what you say had real play, but how can he keep that juice going?
Old School
@Roger Moore:
Or Buchanan voters.
Suzanne
@jl:
Agree 100%. It will be the most blatant rimjob we have ever seen. We should document it for future historians.
jl
Suzanne, Elie, Brachiator: (sorry no hyperlinks, messed up reply):
One thing Trump has in common with establishment GOP is that in terms of real policy, Trump is running the same con. How long will it take the reactionary shock jock media and grass roots base to realize that? May be faster than we think, if there is disillusionment with Trump’s promises to stay in power.
Suzanne
@jl: Remember how Ted Cruz now slobs the knob of the man who called his wife ugly? LMAO.
pamelabrown53
@different-church-lady:
I agree. Plus where I think the Lincoln Project was most effective was in influencing the D.C. political pundits.
Brachiator
@Elie:
Trump himself is largely a spent force. However…
We do not know how he will misuse the respect that is given to former presidents. He will probably use some of it to try to stay out of jail should state authorities nail him on any tax issues.
As an ex-president Trump is still in a rarefied club.
jl
@Suzanne: For now, I’m focusing on Rubio. He really delivers the self-parody and laffs.
Kent
Biden went through 8 years of the Obama Administration and the past 3 years of endless vicious GOP attacks on his son Hunter. Other than Hillary Clinton, there is probably no American alive with more personal experience with the true nature of the GOP than Joe Biden. I don’t think he has any illusions about who he is dealing with.
Elie
@Brachiator:
I understand your point but I think his behavior is gonna make the usual reverence and respect non existent. The fury and contempt he has — especially since this show he’s put on in the last month, will just be a mountain falling on his head. And can you imagine if he has to be seen showing up for a hearing or deposition? How that would communicate powerlessness? No way… No respect, no nothing. And if 12/6 is a mess, he will wear that forever. He and his orks have no idea the amount of restrained rage people like me feel. Hawley is and the other mini-me Trumps have no idea what they will be facing and they will not have the personality to evade being truly wounded.
pamelabrown53
@Old School:
Accidental Buchanan voters. Remember the butterfly ballot that had jewish people casting a vote for the anti-Semite Buchanan?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: They can talk the talk, but they can’t walk the walk.
Old School
@pamelabrown53: I remember it all too well.
Ksmiami
@Elie: my rage against the GOP fascist party is at an eleventeen to the point where I almost dare them to try and overturn the election.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Totally agree. But I remember how East Coast pundits insisted that Arnold was just an empty movie star, and people in other states would never fall for the empty charms of a mere celebrity.
Even the LA Times main political columnist took to sternly lecturing readers that Californians should stick with Davis because they had elected him, even though recall was obviously a valid tool that California voters could use, part of the 1911 reforms, I think.
Emma from FL
@Roger Moore: Actually, Hillary lost because of Russian ratfucking in a few key states and Republican dirty tricks to nullify the minority votes.
jl
mudslog up from the bottom, a tough mudder for the audience, not the contestants.
Which brings to mind, will the candidates in the GOP primaries all call themselves ‘contestants’ from now on? Will the studio audience decide the winner and the grand prize be revealed behind the curtain after every debate? Will there be isolation booths? Trump may be bad, but some good may come from his legacy despite that.
Matt McIrvin
We’re going to see another big burst of white-guy domestic terrorism; the Nashville bomber was just the beginning. The climax will probably be some Oklahoma City-sized mass-casualty incident that’s actually big enough to cause some public revulsion.
(The Las Vegas shooting seemed to pass out of popular memory rapidly, though, so maybe that doesn’t work any more. Admittedly a political motive never came out for that one.)
Matt McIrvin
@Kent:
I saw a little bit of that; I guess there’s always some Stoller-type cranks who insist the Democrats need to lose to win. It was minuscule compared to the Hillary-hate in 2016, though. I think it would have been a lot worse if the Democrats had nominated, frankly, any woman in the top slot.
Dan B
@The Moar You Know: I had a couple friends who loved the Lincoln Project ads. I told them to send them no money – zero! Let the Never Trumpers send their money.
I like their ads but the Dems need to learn how it’s done.
Roger Moore
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
The crucial point is that the base knows they can’t walk the walk and is angry about it.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Last I heard, they were stumped at he motive.
@Matt McIrvin:
Agree. A woman would have gotten a lot more heat.
Geminid
@Calouste: I talked to only two trump supporters among my acquaintances. They both strongly rejected my assertion that trump was lazy and incompetent. They were only two people and they were wrong, of course , but I don’t think trump’s supporters generally believed he was lazy and incompetent and were attracted to that. Real supporters, that is. Not the contemptible cartoon characatures many people project.
KenK
@tom: @#4
“I think many of the 74 million recognize
chaos and calamityracism and fascism and purposely voted for it.”Dan B
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Another pro-corporate Dem. Whee! /
Gravenstone
@mrmoshpotato: Wow, the Berntards in that timeline are living on another planet, aren’t they?
Geoduck
@Roger Moore: Plus I suspect a lot of Mormons held their nose and voted for the Shiatgibbon, but that they don’t like him at all.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: That’s pretty much what I was saying, the closest you could probably get to Trump(checking all the boxes) is Tucker, but he got owned by Jon Stewart.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I know that. I’m hoping enough voters know that too down in the Peach State.
Uncle Cosmo
@mrmoshpotato: Nope. Stupidity, with a capital S. What is Biden going to crush them with? Even with 50 Senators and Kamala’s tiebreak? Executive Orders that will get appealed to the Extreme Court with the speed of light and overturned??
Look, either we scrape off (gradually but persistently) enough of the outer, saner edges of the Trumpist monobloc and gather them to the usually-sane center to (gradually but persistently) render open fascism unacceptable in political discourse, or we fuck around until a slicker fascist steals the Presidency and ends liberal democracy, or we provoke a civil war in which they hold most of the ordnance & cops & watch our loved ones murdered or hauled off into slavery hoping one of the mercs is merciful enough to put a slug through our temple before burning the house down around us.
That’s it, Mishmosh. Those are the choices. I don’t expect you to understand that – your intelligence seems to be limited to the sixth-grader’s compendium of obscenities you routinely vomit out onto this board. For the sake of those around you, I hope IRL you’re saner than you sound here.
Dan B
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Lincoln Project’s goal was to upset Trump so he would act out. Then people would see how he is thin skinned. They succeeded at that. They went after some other Trump enablers. I don’t know if they had any success with them.
mrmoshpotato
@Gravenstone:
Oh, I didn’t wade into the replies. I know better. :)
Any whining about everyone not having unicorn butlers that shit rainbows out of their eyes?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mrmoshpotato:
Um, where can I get one of those? Asking for a friend.
Dan B
@mrmoshpotato: Biden has stated that there are 20 Republicans he won’t try to work with so it seems he realizes there are a lot of enemies. I’m much less worried about Biden trying to placate the GOP.
mrmoshpotato
@Uncle Cosmo:
You mean the 6-3 conservative court that’s hearing every batshit crazy (too much for your delicate eyes?) “voter fraud” case brought before it?
If the fever breaks after 1/20.
Interesting choice in being so upset about how someone else chooses to express themselves. Sorry (so not sorry) for being pissed about one of the two major parties being a goddamned fucking pile of shit for my entire lifetime.
There’s a pie filter if you’re so fucking offended. USE IT!
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Not sure why you’d want one. LOL
Gravenstone
@mrmoshpotato: Apparently St. Bernard is the only reason there was a $1200 payment initially, and this $600. And did you know, he really should be President, but the evil Democratic establishment (TM) backstabbed him something fierce? I’d call these clowns one note losers, but that would still be giving them too much credit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ll take theirs
Subsole
@jl: Joe Rogan, maybe?
Subsole
@mrmoshpotato: You should totally go wade into the replies.
They have some delicious mangoes, man…
Subsole
@?BillinGlendaleCA: For real.
My unicorn just farts gold-plated rainbow-cocaine all day…
Calouste
@Geminid: Of course the shitgibbon’s supporters don’t think he’s lazy, he’s white. Those people are lazy, not him. The supporters see lazy and incompetent and thus coming up with simple, but wrong, solutions as smart. Way smarter than experts with their book learning and complex solutions. If he was actually hard-working and competent they would have dismissed him as an egghead. These are the people who think that after an afternoon on the internet they know more about cancer than an oncologist.
Subsole
@Dan B: Another thing to bear in mind: obstructing a white president might not go over as well among the independents as sabotaging a black president.
Which sucks, but…welcome to America.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
one of Josh Hawley’s former colleagues at Mizzou School of Law (maybe they don’t call it that) remembers him
I love the “I’ve know what you are from day one” part
DMcK
@Brachiator: Let’s not forget Jesse Ventura, Governor of Minnesota (although he ran as a Reform Party candidate).
patrick II
@JoyceH:
I get where you are coming from. I can’t believe more than a few crazy people would vote for that guy. But because of those covid caused make voting easier rules and laws, most importantly easier mail-in,. applied to conservatives too, everyone’s vote increased.. In a normal election Biden wouldn’t get that many more votes than Obama either. It illustrates how well voter suppression works in Normal years — which Republicans will now try to return us to.
mrmoshpotato
Mangoes? What reference am I missing here?
JML
@jl:
Don’t forget about Tom Cotton: he’s a racist shitbag who knows how to dish out the hate while suckering the NYTimes into pretending he’s “thoughtful”. He will be running.
The problem with most of these yahoos is they’re not all that interesting, and don’t have the same ability to generate free media (I can’t call it “earned media” when it’s Trump) like Trump did. Is Faux News going to sell out to Hawley or Cotton or (god forbid) Crenshaw and turn over the network to one of them and just always cover every move 24/7? So then they need the money to fill in the gaps and that’s harder.
Plus, no one in the field is going to be afraid of taking a swing at anyone else. So if one of them pops to the front, the rest will tear them down like jackals, the one thing they never tried doing with trump until it was too late. The only thing they’ll fear is Trump turning on one of them…and the Giant Orange Idiot a) may be off the scene (health/prison), and b) will turn on ALL of them in an instant. It’s not like fawning loyalty will actually keep him from attacking any of them: he has no loyalty to anyone other than himself.
jl
@JML: “Don’t forget about Tom Cotton”
Oh shit…. damn… thanks…. goddamit…
OTOH, IIRC, all these guys are really elitist, very snotty and very arrogant Ivy League swells, except for public university Rubio. I don’t know if they can rub off enough of the high class sheen to fool the base. The base is insane and ignorant, but they have supernaturally acute classdar (as in gaydar and radar). One way Trump can win easily, even if his mental decline is obviously far gone into dementia, is for them to join Rubio in trying to out vulgar and out plebe resentment Trump. Trump will destroy them instantly and permanently.
Roger Moore
@mrmoshpotato:
Apocalypse Now. One of the guys on the boat gets off because he thinks he can get some tasty mangoes, only to encounter a tiger.
glory b
Hochschild is completely discredited i my eyes because she claimed to have spent YEARS with those folks and the subject of race never came up and, she claims, she never thought of mentioning it. Really? How in head in the clouds/ivy towered can one be?
mrmoshpotato
@Roger Moore: Ah. Haven’t watched that in ages.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Take the vaccine, or lose your health care certifications. No other choice, you can’t threaten the lives of your patients, or the residents of your long term care homes.
If you want to work in health care, get vaccinated, ASAP. If you absolutely refuse your vaccination, call me, I want some for my wife first (septic shock destroyed her immune system years ago!), then for me who cares for her.
Doctor tells us, they’re going to have pharmacies vaccinating people in WV, how do they know these patients? They don’t!!!
Mai Naem mobile
This is a depressing thread. I don’t know how it goes but I do believe there’s a decent chance that once Orange Dbag doesn’t have the presidency and all its powers protecting him, stuff is going to come out about him which will make some of his base cut ties and when people cut ties to a cult they turn into ex smokers complaining about smokers. I remember talking to a guy who we use for handyman stuff during ’16 and how Orange Dbag had been paid $150K or something for the secret service riding in his jet protecting his ass and I could kind of see the wheels turning in this guy’s head. Its grifty petty corrupt stuff like that which people understand. Also, I think Orange Dbag is going to be too busy with legal problems to have time for rallies etc. and Junior and Vanki just don’t have the Q factor of Orange Dbag.
Calouste
@J R in WV: I don’t think they can force health care workers to take a COVID vaccine yet, because all the vaccines are all still on interim approval. But once the final approval is there, a COVID vaccine will join flu shots, Mantoux tests and whatever else you need to get before they even hand you your badge at a hospital.
RobNYNY
@germy: There is nothing remarkable about that. People generally retain their state residency while in military or other government service, no matter how long the service lasts. There is no obligation to own or rent property in the state of residency, and no prohibition on owning or renting property elsewhere.
J R in WV
@RobNYNY:
I believe you are completely wrong. I will confess, I’m not a lawyer experienced in voting requirements… but I have always believed that you must have residency in the jurisdiction you vote in.
Otherwise you are committing voter fraud!! Being in congress is not the same as being in military service and voting absentee while serving abroad.
RobNYNY
@J R in WV: Have it your way. Jeez. How do you think that Senators who are in service in DC for decades can be reelected from the states they represent?
Fact situation and law are a little different, but it states the principles.
https://courts.illinois.gov/opinions/supremecourt/2011/january/111773.pdf
Citizen Alan
@Lapassionara:
Because the country is going to shit. Voting 3rd party is a tantrum voters can only afford when things are going well. No one heard a word out of 3rd parties in 2008 either.
Citizen Alan
@Roger Moore: I remember when The Coming Democratic Majority came out, and everyone on the Left was gloating over it. And I remember thinking even then that the Right could delay that Coming Democratic Majority for a long time if they were willing to bring back Jim Crow. And they could delay it for a very, very long time if they were able to push through policies while still in power to turn America into an apartheid state.
Citizen Alan
@Roger Moore: My personal theory is that the primary effect of Third Parties is simply to suppress the vote. The central message of both Libertarians and Greens is “There’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans, so you might as well vote for us.” But most people are intelligent enough to realized none of these 3rd party cranks are going to get elected. So for every person who actually votes for Jill Stein or Ralph Nadar or whoever, there are probably 4 or 5 who accept the central premise that “there’s no difference between the two main parties” but who can’t be bothered to take off work and drive across town to cast a meaningless protest vote, and who instead simply don’t vote at all.
Citizen Alan
@Roger Moore: Hell, IIRC, if everyone who voted for Monica Morehead of the Workers of the World Party had voted for Gore, he’d have won!
ballerat
@Subsole: If there is still political benefit to it, yes.
Long dead Herman Cain’s Twitter account will shut down when the monetary cost and/or political costs of running it negates the monetary/political profits.
It’s a zero sum game, as is the result of many of the end games of so much of what is now so-called conservatism.
ballerat
@Roger Moore: Agreed and good point.
But they will milk him as long as they can. So, maybe 6 months post-Trump, as in post-Trump meaning the period beginning when he finally ceases to turn this mortal coil.
How long was Lenin’s embalmed corpse on display?
Chris T.
Evan McMullen, most easily remembered (by me anyway) as Egg McMuffin.