Vice President Mike Pence wants nothing to do with Rep. Louie Gohmert’s (R-TX) last-ditch bid to give him the power to overturn the results of the 2020 election. https://t.co/PS0xOVR6GP
— Citizens for Ethics (@CREWcrew) January 2, 2021
If there were one vice-president who could be absolved of dreaming about a coup, you’d think it would be Mike Dense, the guy who couldn’t outwit a ball-crazy labrador retriever with a fake throw. But needs must when the KKKrazy wants feeding! Alas, the latest Extremely Legal Petition from Dumbest Guy in the House, Rep. Louie Gohmert, has just met another setback:
A federal appeals court on Saturday dismissed a last-gasp lawsuit led by a House Republican that aimed to give Vice President Mike Pence the power to overturn the results of the presidential election won by Joe Biden when Congress formally counts the Electoral College votes Wednesday. It came a day after a district court judge dismissed the case…
The suit named Pence, who has a largely ceremonial role in next week’s proceedings, as the defendant and asked the court to throw out the 1887 law that spells out how Congress handles the vote counting. It asserted that the vice president “may exercise the exclusive authority and sole discretion in determining which electoral votes to count for a given State.”
In dismissing the lawsuit filed by Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, and a group of Republican electors from Arizona, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Saturday agreed with Friday’s ruling of U.S. District Judge Jeremy Kernodle — a Trump appointee — that the plaintiffs had no standing to bring the suit.
Kernodle wrote that the plaintiffs “allege an injury that is not fairly traceable” to Pence, “and is unlikely to be redressed by the requested relief.”…
The Justice Department represented Pence in a case that aimed to find a way to keep his boss, President Donald Trump, in power. In a court filing in Texas on Thursday, the department said the plaintiffs “have sued the wrong defendant” — if, in fact, any of those suing actually have “a judicially cognizable claim.”
The department said, in effect, that the suit objects to long-standing procedures laid out in law, “not any actions that Vice President Pence has taken,” so he should not be the target of the suit.
“A suit to establish that the Vice President has discretion over the count, filed against the Vice President, is a walking legal contradiction,” the department argued…
When Pence refuses to violate the Constitution and appoint Trump president for life on January 6th, Trump is gonna be torn over wanting to attack Pence on Twitter, and needing Pence to pardon him after he resigns.
— Daily Trix (@DailyTrix) January 1, 2021
Gonna be funny when the person Trump shoots in the middle of Fifth Avenue is Pence.
— Daily Trix (@DailyTrix) January 2, 2021
Nothing to see here. Just Donald Trump’s attorney calling for the arrest and execution of Vice President Pence. pic.twitter.com/0SeGDEvDh3
— Travis Akers (@travisakers) January 2, 2021
Which reminded me of Twitter genius Kilgore Trout‘s mid-December thread on the RWNJs he calls ‘alt-realists’:
the prevailing perception of the alt-realitists is that they always plow forward because they are not bound by any rules of reality and this is very wrong. they are bound by *one* rule – the show must go on. and this iron-clad rule makes them completely predictable.
— kilgore trout (@KT_So_It_Goes) December 18, 2020
they’re in a video game that is programmed to never end regardless of any events in the real world that contradict the current game narrative. but like a video game, the subsequent narratives have programming limits. they are never new. they are always reboots of old narratives.
it’s all very westworld, actually. the real world can intrude all it likes but the hosts always find their way back to their loops…
ok let’s use the rule and predict the next villain at the next reality juncture. the show must go on, and the character must exist in canon already. the next villain is mike pence.
So… it’s not sane, but at least it’s predictable?
Cheryl Rofer
Pence got the message. He is now encouraging the Republican seditionists in Congress.
RaflW
This guy is great at cutting to the legal chase.
Jerzy Russian
I have to admit, my ears perked up a bit when I read that Mr. Lin called for the arrest (or was it the execution?) of Mitch McConnell. I suppose this could be a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut by accident.
The Dangerman
We are in such a dangerous time. You know there are forces begging (if not outright paying) Trump to do Iran. And I think Trump would love to take martial law for a test drive (even if the Armed Forces tell him to go get fucked). Hey, if they are trying to tell Pence to look in the box with his eyes closed and declare Trump the winner, anything is possible.
Mike in NC
This fucked-up Dominionist loon can drop off the face of the earth on January 22.
dmsilev
Pence is at least paying lip service to the anti-democratic fanatics. WaPo:
WaterGirl
Mister Forkbeard posted this on the previous thread:
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: jinx.
NotMax
Repeating from below.
Found the video of today’s message from the court to Gohmert.
;)
Jean
@WaterGirl: Except they don’t have any evidence. And I read that 6 Republican senators will join Democrats in voting to accept the Electoral College certification.
WaterGirl
@Jean: Just six? That’s horrifying.
edit: So you think he wrote that for the appearance of going along with them, but when they can’t produce EVIDENCE, he will do the right thing?
If so, then why say he has doubts and concerns about the election?
Jay
@The Dangerman:
Nope.
It’s all just performative, for The Base, ( Y’all Quida).
They have been drinking the koolaide.
Mike in NC
@WaterGirl: They all need to be shot.
WaterGirl
@Mike in NC: I would settle for them being arrested for sedition or trying to overthrow the government. It’s beyond appalling.
It may be a failed coup, but it’s still a coup.
WhatsMyName
NotMax
Kool-Aid Man not impressed.
?BillinGlendaleCA
I guess the 5th Circuit cast aspersions on Louis Gohmert’s asparagus.
Just to remind y’all, Louis Gohmert used to be a judge.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Dangerman:
Who? Bibi? Putin sure doesn’t want us to attack Iran.
ETA: Guees we could add MBS along with Bibi.
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
y’all really need to rethink the whole Judge thing.
danielx
“We were outvoted, so throw out the votes of all those unAmericans” doesn’t seem to have much appeal as a legal argument.
Benw
@Jay: Naw Aaron Judge and Mike Judge are great. And Judge Reinhold is a treasure!
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
and, at this time, the US Military has 0 interest in messing with Iran. They have had to “in theatre” a shit load of assets, badly needed elsewhere, to Iraq, because the anniversary of Solemeni’s murder is coming, and the Shia Militias are still pissed.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: Oh man.
I hope Democrats talk about how two dead folks in Pennsylvania voted for Trump, and that’s the only voter fraud that’s been found so far. Because that’s provable.
@WaterGirl: I think 12 have said they’ll vote to contest the results, and 6 have said they’ll vote to affirm them. I imagine most of the rest will vote to affirm them, but if we end up with 80+% of the Republican caucus trying to overturn the election on completely made-up stories of voter fraud, then I don’t know where the country goes from there.
Jean
@WaterGirl: That’s 6 who have spoken publicly. Even if it turns out to be only 6, that’s 48 Dems +6 Republicans, so that’s it for the seditionists. Pence is just paying lip service with weasel words to save himself from the loony birds. He can’t be saved.
Zelma
I can’t begin to express how disgusting this is. And how destructive. Steve Schmidt has a Twitter thread where he concludes that this is the end of the Republican Party as we know it. He likens it to the destruction of the Whig Party after the Compromise of 1850 when it became impossible for northern and southern Whigs to coexist within the same party. (I have no idea how to imbed the thread here. I don’t even know how to box quotes.)
How can Ben Sasse and Mitt Romney remain in the same party as Hawley and Cruz? And what will be the fate of the other Republican senators who place their oaths to the Constitution above their loyalty to Trump? I think there will be more than six who refuse to go along. Possibly all those who have not already signed on to the Hawley/Cruz gambit. And all of them will be in danger of being challenged from the looney right. Romeny is probably safe and those who were just reelected might hope that in six years the fever will have broken. But what about the 21 Republicans who are up for reelection in 2022?
What happens when -not if -there is violence on Wednesday? I admit to some personal concern here as my son has to be at the Capitol on Wednesday. I’m not sure the republic will survive this and the Republicans don’t deserve to.
Bruuuuce
@Benw: As a NY football Giants fan, I would say that Joe Judge is okay, too.
mrmoshpotato
I see they’re really not getting over their loss.
How long until one of these Russthuglican, whataboutism bastards tweets out, “No fascist! No fascist! You’re the fascist! You’re the fascist!”?
sab
@Jean: Which six? Curious if my state’s mouseketeer climbed out of his bunker to do the r8ght thing.
mrmoshpotato
What’s he gonna do – climb the ice wall and fall over the edge? :)
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Don’t forget…
LOL
Kent
They might be able to fire some missiles at Iran. But there is ZERO chance they can actually mobilize for any type of conventional military ground strike within days. There isn’t some invasion force just waiting offshore for Trump to pull the trigger.
Kent
They never had a chance anyway, even if the entire GOP Senate voted with them. The law requires majority votes by BOTH houses of Congress to reject a state’s electoral vote.
mrmoshpotato
American Idol or The Masked Singer?
Cheryl Rofer
@Zelma: Here’s the thread. We’ve all been saying for so long that THIS outrage will finally break the Republicans or whatever, that I have no idea what the probability is that this will happen. Pat Toomey, Mitt Romney, and Lisa Murkowski have all come out publicly against the seditionists.
I hope there are some good speeches on Wednesday.
I’m only embedding the first tweet. Y’all can find the rest from here.
gwangung
@Kent: Though this probably eludes the grasp of the Orange One….
Another Scott
@The Dangerman: ICYMI, Reuters:
True? Who knows….
But surprising to be public!
Cheers,
Scott.
mrmoshpotato
Well played, sir! Well. Played.
Jean
@Kent: That’s right!
Cheryl Rofer
They’re redeploying the Nimitz from the Persian Gulf, so there’s that. Trump is shit out of time for anything like a real war in Iran. Still could fire off some cruise missiles or drop some bombs, though.
Trump’s toadies. FWIW
Ian
@Zelma:
I hope they get primaried. Every single one. If we pick up 1/3 of their seats we are in great shape. Who cares if their replacements are even bug-eyed crazier? If they won’t impeach an obviously dangerous oaf and are willing to toss democracy in the gutter, I say let the crazies give us a chance to pick up as many senate seats as possible
Edit- Wishing you and yours the best, I also hope nothing happens in the capitol.
Jean
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for posting Schmidt’s thread. I so want to believe him, but it’s been said before. My optimistic view is that the anti-democratic behavior gets worse and worse, and then all at once, or so it seems, it collapses. The rope gets tighter and tighter, and then, snap!
Benw
@mrmoshpotato: thx :)
Punchy
@Zelma: I think the violence is being stoked by the Trump Admin intentionally so they can claim a rationale for martial law.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer:
McConnell and Sasse?
Like you, I find Schmidt’s prediction of the Republican Party’s demise optimistic. Tim Miller self-mockingly described what he called an Aaron Sorking scenario in which Romney would set himself up as an independent. My own Sorkin fantasy is Romney, Murkowski and Collins brokering a deal that makes Angus King majority leader so that shit at least gets voted on, but then you get into all the nuttiness about committee chairmanships and… there’s that whole thing about none of those three ever having shown any sign of wanting, never mind daring, to take on Mitch McConnell. They seem quite happy with his leadership.
patrick II
@WaterGirl:
By asking for “evidence” Dense is being more clever than we normally give him credit for. Or at least I hope, because, of course, there is no evidence — at least of the kind that would stand up in court. But by playing along he is giving an air of neutrality, and sadly at present “neutrality” means not entirely fascist, and lets him live (and I mean that almost literally) for the next few days.
patrick II
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Add in Pompeo and the Evangelicals.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mrmoshpotato: Worse, Texas.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right, Sasse too. McConnell delights in gnomic incomprehensibility, so I have no idea of his preference besides killing Democratic legislation, but he has seemed to lean away from the authoritarians.
Schmidt says it won’t happen all at once, but the war starts on Wednesday.
ETA: If I were Nancy, I would be working through a number of scenarios to try to maximize a Republican split.
patrick II
@Cheryl Rofer:
Steve Schmidt said in 2016 that by nominating Trump the Democrat would get over 400 electoral votes. I have a tough time figuring him out.
Mary G
Seeing a lot of Dems saying that no one should show up to protest on January 6, to take away the possibility of violence the president could use to declare martial law, I think if the Proud Boys are left to drink and are amped up to fight they will just fight each other.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
This shit is crazy. Just spent some time browsing the r/ParlerWatch subreddit, and followed some links to Twitter about the Proud Boy/Trump supporter protest in Salem, Oregon yesterday against coronavirus restrictions. The police actually pushed the PBs back because their protest was declared an unlawful assembly after they ran a few blocks from the capitol to confront some Antifa demonstrators. I think they were protesting in front of the governor’s mansion too. Surprise, surprise, the PBs now hate the police
MisterForkbeard
I’m seeing that Mitt Romney is getting attacked hugely by Republicans online now. Definitely didnt make any friends with his strongly worded statement.
Another Scott
Hehe…
Make it so!
After we win Georgia!!
Cheers,
Scott.
CaseyL
@Mary G: Good. Maybe they’ll kill one another. One can hope.
Cheryl Rofer
@patrick II: He’s been evolving. With the open sedition, he’s cast his lot with the Democrats now.
It’s a reasonable scenario, and the historical parallel is pretty good.
Another Scott
Well worth a click through!
(via Popehat)
Cheers,
Scott.
lgerard
Speaking of death, the latest wingnut theory is that Jeffery Epstein (who is not dead) will be appearing on January 6th to name the names of those to be carted off to Gitmo.
Evidently the pictures of Epstein’s deceased body were actually those of Anthony Bourdain.
Stand by for further developments
?BillinGlendaleCA
@patrick II: If Bibi wasn’t screaming about Iran, the Evangelicals wouldn’t give a shit.
Cheryl Rofer
Good night, y’all. The kitties need their late-night crunchies.
patrick II
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
But he is and they do. It seems to be the one thing neither Trump nor Bush (with Cheney pushing him) was willing to do.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Another Scott:
“Bill Still” sounds like a made up name. And Antifa will be able to recognize each other by wearing backwards MAGA caps?! Y’know because they’re “urban”, I guess. Christ
rikyrah
@Zelma:
That was a good thread by Schmidt
Another Scott
@Zelma:
+1
There need to be consequences for this dangerous nonsense. Losing power and having the party rendered irrelevant (like the Whigs) and having its successor be in the political wilderness for 75 years would be a good start.
Cheers,
Scott.
Zelma
I know it’s too soon to start talking about 2022. (Come to think of it, maybe it isn’t. One of the mistakes the Dems make is not to start thinking about the next election as soon as the last one is over.). I haven’t made a study of who’s up, but I know off the top of my head that three seats are eminently gettable: PA (Toomey took one look at the current situation and bowed out. There are lots of good candidates. The leading Reps are bat-shit crazy); NC (please find a candidate who doesn’t engage in phone sex); and MI (Johnson is clearly vulnerable in addition to being dumb as a rock.).
But like Ian says, it would be great if a bunch of Reps were primaried because the Republican primary electorate is crazy and I’m not sure the general electorate is quite that far gone.
Mai Naem mobile
Does Romney still think he can run for POTUS or is he trying to keep up this up for a GOP politics future for his sons? I get the feeling he’s the ‘cleanest’ of the bunch who could pull off something big. I don’t think he’s a Russian asset or has personal issues that he wouldn’t want made public, like a lot of the GOP Senators.
Why are the GOP so scared of their crazy nutjob base and the Dem congresscritters couldn’t give a flying f*^k about their base? Part of me would like to see Dem pols be scared of their base .
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: wouldn’t that, even as a quasi-Sorkinesque fantasy, require a split decision in GA? and if Murkowski has ever shown any genuine interest in slowing down the party some people assume she’s better than, I haven’t really seen much evidence of it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mai Naem mobile:
My guess is that the American right is heavily armed, unstable, and crazy. The American left is typically none of these things. Liberals own guns, but we don’t threaten our political leaders like Lin Wood has for example
Geoduck
@Punchy: Assuming the Shiatgibbon and Co. have an actual functioning plan, however evil, is never a safe bet.
Zelma
Re the Schmidt thread, it took several election cycles after 1850 for a new party alignment to develop. Most of the northern Whigs ended up in the Republican Party by 1860 but they weren’t ready by 1856. I’m not sure we can survive ten more years of insane Republicans. And right now, sane Republicans have nowhere to go. (That’s assuming there are any sane Republicans.)
Zelma
I don’t think Democrats are “afraid of their base” because most of them know that their base isn’t all that radical. Folks who supported Joe Biden in the primaries are many things, but they’re not radical.
patrick II
Because our base doesn’t leave a severed pig’s head on congresspeople’s lawn?
Also, there has been a bifurcation between the people who fund the party and many of its voters. I hope that situation improves with organizations that raise funds in smaller amounts like ActBlue.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@patrick II:
Wait, did that actually happen?
CaseyL
@Mai Naem mobile:
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
A couple of reasons.
The first is numbers. The Democratic “base” isn’t the Purity Progressives: it’s the middle and upper-middle class. Not insane, and not terribly ideological (other than being more or less liberal) in other words. The Purity Progressives have no veto power in primaries, since there just aren’t enough of them.
The second is: Democratic voters actually care about policy outcomes, so we’re historically willing to vote for candidates who don’t push our emotional buttons but who look like they know how to legislate. The GOP “base” doesn’t care about policy outcomes, just shitting on people and institutions.
Even if the Dem base was more ideological and activist, I don’t want the Democratic Party to be afraid of its base the way the GOP is afraid of their base. Because I don’t want the Democratic Party to become a left-wing version of the GOP.
Mai Naem mobile
@Zelma: Mark Kelly is up again – this last one was a special election so the 2022 is the regularly scheduled election. Please do not expect Kelly to be voting like Elizabeth Warren – not if you want AZ to continue to have a blue senator. The others are Portman, Burr, Rubio, Paul, Grassley, PA and GA are up again as well. I know it’s KY and McConnell but I think Paul is ripe for the picking. Also, Grassley is getting old and may not want to run again. Grassley can be beat by the right person talking about Grassley being an insider and in DC too long. Also I saw a legit poll(early hypothetical match up etc.) a few months that had GOP VT Gov Scott beating Pat Leahy which kind of shocked me. I hope Leahy spends a lot of time in VT in the next 2 yrs making sure his constituents know him and what he does.
patrick II
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Yes.
Nancy Pelosi’s home vandalized
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patrick II:
Though the people who did that probably do think they’re the “real” base.
Also, one of my many hobby-horses: The Democrats do not have a single base.
Another Scott
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I like 51:49 better than 50:50 and if Lisa wants to be 51 (and we have to offer something reasonable to get her to come over) that’s fine with me.
Of course, adding DC (and PR if they want it) as states should be on the table, also too.
Yeah, I don’t really expect it either, but if the GOP does fracture then she might see a benefit in moving over.
Cheers,
Scott.
hitchhiker
@Mai Naem mobile:
Romney is a boy scout. So is Steve Schmidt. These are guys who have accepted that there are slimy motherfuckers in their party all their working lives, and always, always felt morally superior to them (while using them as necessary, of course).
Like true boy scouts, they think their good faith protects them; the bad guys cannot win, because they’re bad, and this is a moral universe. I don’t think they’re playing for anything now but democracy itself, especially Schmidt. Romney might be thinking about his future or that of his sons, but that’s not the vibe.
They’re just pissed off because they both know that they nudged this mess into being.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hitchhiker:
The brief moment of respect I had for Romney in 2012 was when he, IIRC alone among R primary candidates, did not make a pilgrimage to trump tower to pose for a photo-op with the big dumb ape. Then of course, he made a big splash of accepting trump’s endorsement– remember that weird fucking cake? The Lady Ann must’ve spent three straight days in the spa getting cleansed after that. And late in the campaign, they brought trump in to record robocalls for the sort of neighborhoods that eventually turned out for trump in ’16.
Ken
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeah, the Republicans spent decades talking up the “Second Amendment solution,” never dreaming that the guns might end up pointed their way.
Mai Naem mobile
I guess I didn’t articulate my view well. I don’t so much want the Dem pols to be scared of the base but I don’t want them to have this attitude that quite a few of them seem to have of ‘my base needs to suck it up and take this shit sandwich I am voting for.’
Anyhoo, I saw my first “Impeach Biden” bumpersticker yesterday. On a big white F150 truck ofcourse. I was driving behind it and saw the ‘Biden’ large letters and thought it was a pro-Biden sticker until I made out the small letter ‘Impeach.’ If I wasn’t worried about the guy being a gun nut job I would have pulled up next to him and asked him from what position he wanted Biden impeached from being that he’s not even POTUS yet.
Zelma
@Mai Naem mobile:
Regarding Leahy, frankly he should retire. He’ll be 82 years old in 2022 and, from what I can tell, he has lost more than a little of his sharpness. I hope there is someone who can point out the polling data and suggest nicely that it might be time for him to step down.
I know, we just elected a 78 year old as president but I actually think Biden is a pretty young 78 year old. I’m the same age, and I know that there is a big difference among my contemporaries. Some are old, some are young, and some – like me – are middle aged. Leahy is old.
hitchhiker
I’m refusing to be hopeful about GA. I never doubted that Biden would win, but I was just as certain that we’d end the night with the Senate, and it still pisses me off that after 2016 I let myself believe what “everyone” was saying.
That said … remember when Arlen Specter became a Democrat, in 2009? I heard it was Joe Biden who persuaded him to do it. I could see Romney declaring his independence, maybe with a couple of others. They’d have so much power, damn.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Zelma: The Whig party died pretty quickly, between 1853 and 1857, if you look at party representation in the House.
Redshift
@Mary G:
Geez, do these people have the memory of a goldfish? We literally just had this situation three weeks ago. Yeah, it might have been better if everyone had just ignored them, but there were young people who wanted to fight the fascists, and no one can stop them (and arguably, the PB would have just attacked random DC residents otherwise.) There were some fights and a bunch of people were arrested. There’s no such thing as Trump “using violence to declare martial law,” if there was he would have done it already.
WaterGirl
@patrick II: That’s not how I see it, but I hope you are right and I am wrong.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer:
Can you say more about what you are thinking of there?
gwangung
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
DAMMIT, YES.
Dems are a coalition party, with many interested segments.
And they need every single one of them, even the progressives (who cover way more than the purity ponies….).
Leto
@Mai Naem mobile: is this where we point out that Leahy is 80 and assumed office in 1975? He’s been in that seat for 46 years now. If his people don’t know who he is, nothing will. Also, is this where we point out that he’s old as the damn hills and should’ve already had a replacement lined up?
WaterGirl
@patrick II:
It’s a very sad state of affairs when I have to ask… did they actually do that or was that a metaphor?
edit: I knew about the rest of the vandalism, but I had missed the pigs head covered in fake blood part. where do i find the emoji that is smacking my hand into my forehead?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Zelma: Surprisingly, Leahy’s a Deadhead.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@patrick II:
Eww
@CaseyL:
Also valid reasons. And I agree with you on not wanting the Dems to become a left-wing version of the GOP
@Ken:
It really does seem like the GOP and the right are eating themselves. I don’t know where the Republican Party goes from here. People like Lin Wood are not going to just go away. The Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, QAnon are not going to just go away either. I’m probably wrong, but it feels like there’s going to be some kind of crackup/collapse of the GOP. Maybe not now, but sometime in the near future
Jim, Foolish Literalist
assuming he’s telling the truth— which, of course, is questionable at best– doesn’t that schedule suggest his fiancé works/ed in a hospital, and she violated their Covid protocols?
Leto
@?BillinGlendaleCA: he’s also a big Batman fan. He’s had several cameo’s in the films, animated series, and wrote some of the intros to some of the graphic novels.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Real men plant horse heads.
//
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Yeah, but the severed pig’s head would get attention. Maybe Baud should try that for his next run.
patrick II
Peter Navarro on FOX tonight saying the fight to overturn the election will go on beyond inauguration day, because “This election was stolen because a lot of legal means were used to come to an illegal end”.
Evidently what we needed to do was to use a lot of illegal means to come to a legal end.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: This is a really bad movie.
West of the Rockies
Does anyone here really think Trump will resign and angle for a pardon by Pence? He has just over two weeks in office. I dont see it. I also think a self-pardon in of dubious merit. But IANAL.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If(a big if) he says is true, being a pharmacist really sucks, nurses do work 12 hour shifts but 3 days a week(though probably more now).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@West of the Rockies: I think a self-pardon is more likely, just because trump has seen people say he can’t do it, and his history and success with litigation probably makes him think, maybe rightly, that he can fight any challenge to at least a draw.
I’m partly assuming that he can drag things out for the rest of his life, but by rights trump should at least have had a heart attack by now, and I don’t know if his narcissism lets him contemplate the possibility of mortality.
?BillinGlendaleCA
OT: Y’all must take a look at the APOD for January 3rd – A Phoenix Aurora over Iceland.
patrick II
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I had assumed from the way they were acting that everyone there had an inside track to immunization.
Leto
@?BillinGlendaleCA: wow, that’s really cool!
Kent
I don’t think he’ll resign. I do think he’ll write a butt-hurt self pardon claiming persecution by the Deep State and lawless Dems and such shit.
And it will work because his lawyers will gum up the works of any criminal investigations by challenging their legitimacy and bring it all the way to SCOTUS which will cost years and years until some GOP administration finally comes back into power and junks it all.
In other words, a self-pardon would just be a tool for endless lawsuits to keep pushing shit on down the road. By the time it is finally resolved, he will be 80 or dead.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Wow.
Matt McIrvin
@Mai Naem mobile: It would be possible to impeach Biden since he’s a former federal official–there’s precedent for that. If he were convicted, it would make him ineligible for the Presidency.
In 2016, when people thought Hillary Clinton was going to win, there was some discussion of trying to impeach her during the lame-duck period before she entered office, using her status as former Secretary of State.
Yutsano
@Leto: If we want to tear our hair out more: there is a possibility the Republican governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu, could challenge the incumbent Maggie Hassan. The kicker? The very popular Republican governor from New Hampshire. So far no idea if that’s going to happen but it’s something to watch out for.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Leto: One of the best APOD’s in a while.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent: Well, he might be fighting that from THE BIG HOUSE, since he can’t pardon state crimes(he can’t self pardon either).
Kent
The 2024 primaries are going to be LIT. That starts less than 3 years from now. The Iowa Caucuses are 3 years away. Assuming Iowa still gets to do caucuses after the last fiasco.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
Don’t forget about state crimes. He can’t pardon those
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yutsano: yup, I wouldn’t underestimate the strength of the romantic notion of the flinty, independent, old-school New England Republican. Most voters don’t see politics in the same national/partisan terms we do.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@West of the Rockies:
I think Trump is going to have to be physically escorted out of the WH after 1/20/21 at this rate. I always agreed with commenters that thought he would simply jet away to Mar a Largo for the holidays and stay there. Apparently, I heard there was some threat from Iran for the reason for Trump’s return. Has anyone else heard this?
Brachiator
@patrick II:
Didn’t really care for their last album.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Baud’s too classy for that. He would use a severed horse head
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
I’m not looking forward to the insanity. Trump’s 2016 run took the fun out of that when he actually won
Brachiator
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I would still prefer seeing a heavily medicated Trump wheeled from the White House and loaded into a waiting helicopter like a sack of potatoes. He is flown off to Mar-a-Lago. The next day Melania files for divorce. This is my dream.
Ultimately, I think Trump will just go away. Not sure if he will skip the inauguration. I don’t really care. Do you?
Who knows? There are a few right wing pundits who hope that Trump will attack Iran as a last heroic gesture or encourage Israel to do something stupid. However, there has been no threat from Iran. This is just bullshit in search of a pretext.
patroclus
In my view, Steve Schmidt is wrong in his analogy of the current Republicans to the Whigs. The Whigs were barely a political party that existed from the 1830’s to the 1850’s that was formed in opposition to Jacksonian Democracy and had virtually no unifying principles other than that. They only won 2 Presidential elections; both times by nominating apolitical generals who then died in office and their natural lack of unity was then exposed. Once the salient Jacksonian issues (tariffs, the national bank; territorial expansion) issues were addressed and the nation turned to other more controversial issues like slavery, the Whigs’ multiple factions ceased to be unified at all. By contrast, the Republicans have existed for 160 years and have won multiple national elections and, whether we agree with them or not, they’ve had many many unifying principles. They just aren’t comparable to any extent. Moreover, the slavery issue persisted across multiple decades – challenging the 2020 election will be disposed of shortly (although it might take several days of delay and “debate” for Congress to do so). Also, the “purge” has already and is currently taking place and Kasich, Schmidt, Frum, Kristol et. al. have already lost as will anyone who allies with them. This is why so many House Republicans signed that stupid amicus brief and it is why a vast majority of the Republicans in both Houses will support the challenge to the counting of the electoral votes. Further, the Republican party isn’t “going away” – it is the majority party in a majority of the states and in the courts and (probably) in the Senate.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Cruz won the ’16 Iowa caucus.
West of the Rockies
@Brachiator:
I’d bet Trimp won’t attend the inauguration. He’s far too butt-hurt. He might hold a bullshit rally at the same time though.
NotMax
@West of the Rockies
Of course he won’t attend. It’s the last chance for him to, um, liberate whatever isn’t nailed down from AF1.
;)
different-church-lady
Starting with the most shameless, they’re slowly lining up, hoping there’s some kind of tipping point that will make this more than theater.
Republican-appointed judges who still have integrity, and a House controlled by Democrats are the ONLY two things standing between us and a coup. That is a genuinely frightening state of affairs for the future, because either one or both could disappear before too long.
smike
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Set as my background for now. Nice.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
I meant that Trump won the nom and the general election. It was fun at first watching his campaign and I was fairly confident he would go down in flames on 11/8, but was horrified when he didn’t.
It was fun to mock him before all that, just like it was fun to mock the idea of the far-right causing widespread violence prior to 2016. The typical image of a right-wing nutjob trying to overthrow the government back in like 2012 was an old fat white guy on a hover round scooter ala the Tea Party. Recent events with the likes of the Proud Boys, QAnon, Patriot Prayer, etc have proven this to be wishful thinking.
I’ve seen the videos of the street brawls and it’s terrifying. These thugs are not guys who need hover rounds to get around to state the obvious. They will use 2×4 “flag poles” as clubs to beat the shit out of anybody they think is their enemy. They call Antifa “communists” almost 30 years after the fall of the USSR. They’re deluded, deranged, dangerous people. My Republican step-aunt told my mother about her fears of America becoming a communist regime for fuck’s sake. This shit is poisoning millions of minds.
This FP article is a scary glimpse into our future:
America Is About to Enter Its Years of Lead: Trump’s calls for political violence are a familiar far-right strategy
And this is just the United States. Don’t think this can’t happen anywhere else. It is. Germany’s AfD in October 2019 won a majority of under 30 voters in Thuringia. The Thuringia party head has questioned Germany’s culpability in WW2. His views are not the fringe within the AfD. Something has to be done about this
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@patroclus:
Only through gerrymandering and voter suppression. And just because it’s been around for 160 years doesn’t mean it will continue to exist for much longer
Fair Economist
@Mai Naem mobile:
Scott-VT is wildly popular in Vermont because he has the sense not to veto stuff the overwhelmingly Dem+progressive legislature will override. He’s going to steal one of VT’s Senate seats and run a Susan Collins act for decades. It’s going to be stomach turning, especially from such a blue state.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Fair Economist:
How the fuck did Susan Collins win by so much after all the bullshit she did over the last 4 years and Biden carrying the state?
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Like all fevers, it will burn out. In the U.S., although capable of committing mayhem, the gross numbers who will do more than talk the talk are loud but small.
Empty barrels make the most noise.
patrick II
@patroclus:
I’m with you, patroclus. There is too much organized money, too much control of the media, too many issues (no matter how irrational they seem to us) that hold them together: Guns, abortions, Evangelicalism, and the king of them all — race. they will bang around, but in the end big money will pay the bills and FOX will keep them propagandized.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@patrick II:
The right has already turned on Fox News. I can’t imagine the GOP surviving this decade as a coherent political party. Either that or the US devolves into an Orban/Putinesque authoritarian dictatorship with the next GOP administration
Fair Economist
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Damned if I know. Doesn’t match the polling either. Optical scan ballots, so little opportunity for the kind of hanky-panky the Republicans used to steal an election from Governor Siegelman in AL, and probably some elections in GA as well.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Okay, doomer.
//
Laurel Ann
Peak wingnut was a lie
rikyrah
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Wow???????
NotMax
@Fair Economist
The vestiges of Maine being labeled rock-ribbed Republican are not extinct. One CD did not see Dolt 45 as a bridge too too far, even now. That the other CD split their ticket is not all that surprising. Strong legacy of contrariness in Maine, also too.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
Look, I’m sorry, but this QAnon insanity seemingly spreading so far and wide is scaring me. I remember Kay saying that the Republican Party will become the “QAnon Party”. She said that in jest in the sense that it would make them unelectable. Combined with the GOP’s structural advantages with the EC, gerrymandering, and voter suppression efforts, I’m not exactly sanguine about the future.
The fever will only break if conditions improve and Moscow Mitch will do everything in his power to stymie the Biden administration. The economic ruin will only seed the ground for more fascism
Sorry to be so doom and gloom, but I want off this crazy ride. I want the world to go back to how it was after the Cold War ended, back when there was hope for a better, more peaceful future. I fervently hope the GOP cracks, because if it doesn’t the US will
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Brachiator:
Hah! I’d love to see Trump basically frog-marched to Marine One. I hope Melania does divorce Trump; would serve the asshole right, but I think that prenup is going to keep her tied to him until he dies
patrick II
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I hope you are right. I think but I think they will evolve not self destruct. If I was drawing a Venn diagrams of how I think of how this appears to democrats, it would be the republican and democrats inside of the larger democracy circle. But republicans see themselves mostly outside of the democracy circle with a small merge and the democrats entirely within. What the repubs do to win political power is only partly within and not limited to the democratic means democrats see to attain power — the power of persuasion of truth and and law and the vote. For Republicans add in guns and bribery and a powerful set of mythologizing lies.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
U.S. is more resilient than you give it credit for being. Periods of severe or intense national trauma are not a new phenomenon.
During the 20s and the early Depression years there were scores convinced that Communism was just around the next corner and would inevitably triumph over democracy, for example.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Will add that QAnon does not scare me in the least. Their pathetic raison d’etre is to keep upping the ante on lunacy. A majority of people can swallow only so much tripe without gagging on it.
Pace “Star Wars:” “The more you tighten you grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
Citizen Alan
@NotMax:
Perhaps not the best quote to use since, IIRC, Leia said it immediately prior to the Empire committing an act of genocide.
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Woah. That’s awesome!
raven
Is anything they are doing illegal?
Baud
Everyone is misreading Mike Pence’s statement. He’s relieved that the pressure is off of him to take unilateral action. Congress will vote, the seditionists will lose, and Pence is off the hook.
Zinsky
The following is a letter to the editor of my local metropolitan newspaper that I sent yesterday. I urge all Juicers who are able, to write your local newspaper today (most take e-mail submissions) and say something similar, to make public our disgust for this deviant, unAmerican behavior!
Geminid
@Baud: I think Pence is trying to have it both ways because he hopes he has a chance to be nominated and elected President in 2024. I personally don’t think Pence has a snowball’s chance in hell, but as Lincoln said of his Treasury Secretary Salmon Chase, once it starts gnawing the worm of Presidential ambition “gnaws deep.”
I remember hearing on Election Day that while Biden and trump each gave one interview, Pence would appear on nine different shows. I thought, yeah, he’s running for president next time.
Geminid
@NotMax: There was a lot of ticket splitting in Maine this election. Besides Collins’ win statewide, Democratic Congressman Jared Golden won reelection in the Maine 2nd District even though trump carried it. In the Nebraska 2nd(?), fellow freshman Kendra Horn lost despite Biden winning her district and it’s electoral vote. The results were anomalies, though. Generally, results in Senate and House races tracked the presidential vote closely. Steve Bullock did run four points ahead of Biden in Montana, but it was not enough. In the Virginia 1st CD, republican Randy Wittman was able to win easily, while Biden carried his district, another exception to the general trend.
Baud
@Geminid:
The 2024 GOP field will probably be bigger than 2016.
Chris Johnson
@Zelma: EVERYBODY supported Joe Biden. But not in the primary. I supported Bernie years ago, then Hillary, then Elizabeth Warren at least as hard as I had Bernie, and literally all of them supported Joe and I listened and supported Joe and he won.
Joe is the coalition President. It’s the one thing that the Republicans can’t do right now. I can back Joe Biden whole-heartedly and want the best for him, and never mistake that for being ‘his base’. I didn’t become his base. He became MY President.
May he continue to represent me, at least a little bit, even though he will never be the horse I rode in on. That’s his job. So soon we forget…
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Because this isn’t their base, it’s Trump’s base which are mostly paranoid conspiracy theory believers who think the movie They Live is a documentary.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@patrick II: Yes, WTF was that, it’s Pelosi’s fault that Turtle blocked the money? It’s pretty clear that the hard left is just the mirror of the hard right and wants a dictatorship.
I think the big difference is the middle left refuses to destroy society with the hard left and the middle right always caves to the hard right.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I am with you, but now Trump is screaming the GA election is illegal so their polling data must suck.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I would say that bill to get the 2K check was part of that.
debbie
@The Dangerman:
As in Israel? Don’t make me laugh.
debbie
@patrick II:
Everyone thought that.
Geminid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: For all the noise they make, the hard left is not great in numbers. The hard right is a different story. They are plentiful enough to be a real threat to republican incumbents. Eric Cantor in Virginia and Mark Sanford in South Carolina are two establishment Republicans taken down by the radicals. This year, Scott Tipton in the Colorado 3rd and Denver Riggleman in my Virginia 5th lost to hard right candidates. In the Virginia 5th District, the hard right “Constitutional Conservatives” enhance their power by allying with evangelical Dominionists. But these groups tend to repel normal voters, even conservative leaning moderates, which is one reason Virginia Democrats have dominated state-wide elections the last few years.
Geminid
@debbie: The general expectation that trump could not win had a lot to do with his victory. Some less motivated Democratic voters stayed home, and some independents thought votes for Gary Johnson would not affect the outcome. Clinton got a raw deal from media generally, but perhaps the worst thing they did to her was to overstate her prospects, when polls still showed so many undecided voters. Political scientist Rachel Bitecofer said that 2016 was a story of “latebreaking undecideds and 3rd Party defections.” The Libertarian vote seems dependably around 2% in President elections. Johnson got 3.6% in 2016.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
Great thread, thanks. Is Ivanka seriously planning to run for office or is Schmidt being facetious?
debbie
@Geminid:
Agreed. It was all about lowering expectations further and further.
Ian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t feel too much sympathy for that dude, and if his wife was a pharmacist she should have been more cautious, but what is it with New York newspapers doxing people these days? The post went after the paramedic who was stripping on the side, and now this?
I guess anonymity is for rich government confident of Mrs. Habberman only.
Uncle Cosmo
Maybe. But IMO Raffie Crooze gave the game away with the call for “delaying” the certification until “evidence of massive fraud” can be evaluated.
There is no “evidence” that would stand up to a modestly intelligent sixth-grader’s examination for more than a couple of minutes. But that won’t prevent Raffie & the Whole Sick Crew from wheeling into both chambers of Congress (as they reconvene separately for the 2 hours of debate following the objections on the 6th) a yard-high stack of paper as alleged “evidence.” When non-whackjob members note that they’ve had two months to present this material, they will whine that the courts stopped them from doing so when they rejected the myriad of lawsuits for lack of standing, and (for as much of the 2 hours as they can hijack) they will demand that each piece of “evidence” be accepted as true and valid.
When both chambers finally say Fuck it, you’re FOS and we’re rejecting your objections, the Thugs will be poised to loudly shriek for the next 4 years that it was the Democrats who staged a coup to seize power by committing massive voting fraud and then refusing even to consider all the “evidence” that the patriotic GOP had presented to them. And too goddamned many fucking nitwits, nutjobs & nazis will believe them…:^(
Geminid
@debbie: When the 1980 race began, I remember thinking of Ronald Reagan, well, that guy will never win. But back then I still mistook my own perspective on Reagan for that of people generally. I had moved on from that misconception enough to be very worried about the result of the 2016 election. In the event, I was dismayed but not surprised.
patrick II
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Both Turtle and Pelosi got hit. Anarchists signs were left behind. They hate everyone in government. What I don’t like some something coordinated across country.
Ian
@Ian: * not wife. Did more research. It is his fiance
patrick II
@Uncle Cosmo:
Excellent point.
WaterGirl
@Zinsky: Really excellent letter!
Are you offering it up for stealing for letters of our own?
Barry
@?BillinGlendaleCA: “Putin sure doesn’t want us to attack Iran.”
He probably does. It’d be a disastrous war for the USA and it would push oil prices up through the roof, which Putin needs.
And Trump then handing off the war to Biden would tangle up the new administration, meaning that the US government would be 100% occupied with damage limitation.
Geminid
@Barry: Also, Putin probably wouldn’t mind seeing the Iranian nuclear program set back a few years. Russia and Iran are kind of “frenemies,” with mutual short term goals but a long term rivalry.
IsraelTopshelf
Don’t, do. Damned. But he knew that when he attached himself like a leech to the evil corpusculence in 2016. The ride comes to an end, the fare is your soul. But don’t worry, there’s a mansion waiting for you!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My point still stands, I know Anarchists and what they really want is a dictatorship though they are to cowardly to admit it.
IsraelTopshelf
My earlier attempt to comment on this may have pierced some secret balloon-defense trigger, so I’ll mediate the “inability to digest” Pence’s behavior with this:
Don’t, do. Still damned. But he knew that when he signed on to the autocratic overthrow party in 2016. He’ll get his desserts, though, after he does one last little thing, even if that thing as it fails, drives a nail through the heart of the death cult he cares so much for. Better to go down a martyr, and wait for that mansion in the never-after.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@Ian: Yeah, but…
Dude stuck himself AND his fiancé out there. Gonna be loud wrong and crow about it, you earn the blowback you get.
The problem isn’t that these assholes got called out, it’s that Haberman’s “sources” never do.