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You are here: Home / Garden Chats / Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers)

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers)

by Anne Laurie|  January 3, 20216:36 am| 43 Comments

This post is in: Garden Chats

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Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers)

Another mood-lifter from commentor Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!):

One of my friends, a professional photographer of gardens, once told me that entering a photograph of back of a sunflower is a sure way to win a prize in a photography contest. So, even though I don’t enter contests I do find myself taking a lot of pictures of sunflowers.

I also have several wild-type species of the perennial persuasion in our garden and I would like to share three of my favorites to celebrate the returning of the sun.

North America is the original home for what are called the “true” sunflowers in the genus Helianthus, including the two most widely known species that are in widespread cultivation. The best known is annual sunflower of birdseed and vegetable oil fame (Helianthus annuus) whose wild ancestors were from the Western USA. The other is the Jerusalem artichoke (Helianthus tuberosus) which is a perennial known for taking over gardens.

Today we have two “true” sunflowers and one close cousin that looks very similar and all are native to the Eastern USA.

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 1

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 2

First is Pale-leaved Sunflower (Helianthus strumosus) a.k.a. Thick-leaved sunflower. This is a spreading species that grows to about 5 feet tall and attracts lots of bees and butterflies to its flowers.

As a bonus the seeds are very popular with American Goldfinches and I have to race them if I want to collect seed for propagation.

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 3

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 4

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 5

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 6

Second is Tall Sunflower (Helianthus giganteus) a.k.a. Swamp Sunflower, which live up to its names. This species normally grows 8 to 12 feet tall and has very woody stems, but this also is a perennial and dies back to the ground in winter and grows new stems each year. It’s a clump forming species it only spreads by seed not by roots or rhizomes.

It does well in most any kind of garden soil here in the moist area where we garden in Southeastern PA and doesn’t need swampy soil, but it doesn’t mind it. The seeds are smaller than the pale-leaved sunflower’s but goldfinches devour them as well!

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 7

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 8

Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Here Comes the Sun (Flowers) 9

The third species is a cousin with a very sunny scientific name, Heliopsis helianthoides, which more or less means a sunflower which looks like a true sunflower! The common names are Ox-eye, Ox-eye sunflower or smooth oxeye. It grows to about 5 or six feet tall and spreads modestly. It’s showy and popular in wildflower seed mixes.

It isn’t appreciated by birds as much but it is a reliable garden plant the butterflies do visit. Although we grow this lovely flower in our garden, the picture with the Aphrodite Fritillary butterfly isn’t from our garden, It was taken in the garden at Hawk Mountain Sanctuary about 30 miles north of our house where my wife and I are garden volunteers and also help with that famous hawk and eagle migration spot’s native plant sale.

***********

What’s going on in your garden (planning / prep / tropical / retrospectives), this week?

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Reader Interactions

43Comments

  1. 1.

    raven

    January 3, 2021 at 6:52 am

    Sweet!

  2. 2.

    eclare

    January 3, 2021 at 6:56 am

    Thank you for the gorgeous photos!

  3. 3.

    satby

    January 3, 2021 at 7:11 am

    Lovely and right on time for me. I was looking over the latest Territorial Seeds catalog trying to determine which would be the better sunflowers for seed production for the birds. Most of the sunflower types I like are the showy colors, which also are usually pollen-free. I want both pollen for the pollinators and seeds for the birds. Any recommendations?

  4. 4.

    Baud

    January 3, 2021 at 7:22 am

    I need to put on my sunglasses to read this post.

  5. 5.

    satby

    January 3, 2021 at 7:23 am

    @Baud: I only wear mine at night.

  6. 6.

    MomSense

    January 3, 2021 at 7:30 am

    Sunflowers are the happiest flowers. Thank you for these photos. My garden (and everything else) is covered in ice.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    January 3, 2021 at 7:32 am

    @satby: 

    So I can, so I can
    View the pics then read the garden post

  8. 8.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 3, 2021 at 7:47 am

    @satby:  I’ve never heard of any of the showy annual sunflowers that lack pollen or nectar. It’s certainly possible, nut that is usually more of a problem with highly inbred perennial plant varieties. I would expect any and all of the fancy annual sunflower to produce pollen and nectar since they HAVE TO produce seed to have any future generations, they don’t do vegetative propagation at all.

  9. 9.

    satby

    January 3, 2021 at 7:49 am

    Power in the out Bend – Michiana area is still out for thousands of customers, including the people on the blocks across the street from me. Temps have been in the 20s – 30s. And more snow fell last night to cover the snow covered ice from the winter storm. First year I thought the rhododendron was mature enough to get through winter uncovered, but the heavy snow and ice knocked it almost flat. I gently shook what I could off, but we’ll see if it survives.

  10. 10.

    satby

    January 3, 2021 at 7:52 am

    @Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!):  Here’s some info on them, they’re becoming so popular they predominate in the seed catalogs now.

  11. 11.

    prostratedragon

    January 3, 2021 at 8:00 am

    Something for the Wise Men, and more:

    The Ballad of the Brown King, Margaret Bonds and Langston Hughes; and a few more songs

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 3, 2021 at 8:02 am

    @satby:@Baud: I saw satby’s comment first and I thought, “She only wears pants at night?”

     

    eta hangover from yesterday’s am post

  13. 13.

    Steeplejack

    January 3, 2021 at 8:10 am

    Some morning music:

    Freddie Hubbard, “Little Sunflower.”

    Mary Louise Knutson, “Talk to Me.”

  14. 14.

    Immanentize

    January 3, 2021 at 8:11 am

    Hello All,. Thanks Mike S.  You are being a true influencer.  But I will have to come back to these posts in late February.

    I know you mostly harvest your own seeds, but is there a company you can suggest who has done that piece of the work for me?

  15. 15.

    Steeplejack

    January 3, 2021 at 8:13 am

    @prostratedragon:

    Bad link.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    January 3, 2021 at 8:17 am

    Sunflowers make me think of a litany of fried foods.

  17. 17.

    Steeplejack

    January 3, 2021 at 8:36 am

    Nicholas Payton, ”Fleur de Lis.”

  18. 18.

    debbie

    January 3, 2021 at 8:39 am

    A surprising number of people around here grew sunflowers last summer, even a couple of my neighbors in the building. The sunflowers grew taller than the one-story building next door and totally blocked the neighbors’ windows. They were beautiful and incongruous.

  19. 19.

    Mai Naem mobile

    January 3, 2021 at 8:47 am

    Forget the sunflowers. I want to know what those purple flowers are in the first pic.

  20. 20.

    MagdaInBlack

    January 3, 2021 at 8:50 am

    Now I’m looking up dwarf sunflowers for my balcony this summer =-)

  21. 21.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 3, 2021 at 8:51 am

    @satby: Oh, so they don’t have to be manually emasculate like flower arrangers do to lilies! I would then look for ones that a specifically developed to produce seeds then. (The pollenless ones will need a pollen parent to set any seeds obviously). For example the John Scheepers Kitchen Garden Seeds catalog that we got in the mail yesterday lists a “Snacking sunflower Mix” of seeds on p. 31 ,that I think should be good for pollen as well nectar.

  22. 22.

    satby

    January 3, 2021 at 8:51 am

    @Mai Naem mobile: Those are phlox. You often see them growing by the sides of roads.

  23. 23.

    satby

    January 3, 2021 at 8:53 am

    @Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!): Thanks! Will check them out. I was tempted just to plant a handful of the black oil seeds I feed the birds, but I would rather know what kinds of sunflowers I might get.

  24. 24.

    Middlelee

    January 3, 2021 at 9:03 am

    The finches in my area, California Sierra foothills, eat the leaves of the sunflowers.  By the end of summer the leaves are all ragged and full of holes.  They also eat seeds but the leaves go first.

  25. 25.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 3, 2021 at 9:11 am

    @Immanentize: Seeds for meadow and grassland species: For Large quantities (pound size) by species or mixes I like Ernst Conservation Seeds in Meadville PA. For small Quantities, hmmm. Prairie Moon does a good variety  although they are mid-western ecotypes.

    I think the Native Plant Trust/Garden-in-the-Woods sells only plants, but they do sell pollinator garden species in mixed flat kits. They will also be the best source for woodland plants like Trilliums for you.

    We mainly collect our own as you said or exchange with friends.  Seed exchanges run by societies like The North American Rock Garden Society (which we help with) and the Hardy Plant Society usually have a lot of native plants on their lists. But they are in process now and will be over by the end of January. The local chapters of the Rock Garden Society are usually great sources of native plants (in addition to wonderful Alpine plants from around the world!) and The New England Chapter in the Boston Area and the Berkshire Chapter in Western Mass. are both active.

    If I think of others I’ll let you know.

  26. 26.

    mrmoshpotato

    January 3, 2021 at 9:14 am

    @satby: Are you putting the band back together?

  27. 27.

    Mai Naem mobile

    January 3, 2021 at 9:15 am

    @satby: Thanks. I had to look those up. I’ve seen those here used as annuals at apartment complex/office building entrances in the spring. The only ‘annual’ I use are poinsettias.

  28. 28.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 3, 2021 at 9:15 am

    @Mai Naem mobile:   As  @satby: said the are Garden or Summer Phlox (Phlox paniculata) the pinkish or purplish ones you see are the wild type. There are many cultivated varieties. The Phlox (derived from the Greek word for flame) are all native to North America and I love them all from tiny to tall. They are mostly perennials although Phlox drumondii is a short annual species from Texas.

  29. 29.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 3, 2021 at 9:17 am

    @Middlelee: I’ve heard of that, but around here the only leaf attack I’ve heard of is a friend of mine had American Goldfinches eat holes in the leaves of their Swiss chard! I may have to try growing some chard this year just to see this phenomenon.

  30. 30.

    rikyrah

    January 3, 2021 at 9:22 am

    Good Morning, Everyone???

  31. 31.

    Gvg

    January 3, 2021 at 10:00 am

    @Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!): it is now very common as the annual sunflower has been extensively bred for cut flower production. The breeders want you to have to buy seed from them every year, so they make more money. The florists don’t want pollen because it stains clothes and tablecloths so all flowers that become popular with florists eventually get bred to have on pollen.
    the florists sunflowers are beautiful though, lots more colors, mostly still bright yellow orange but also burgundy and white.

    the pollenless ones should still produce seed if you grow another strain with pollen nearby, but none of the hybrids come true from seed, so you have to buy the seed again next year. The seed catalogues say which are which.

  32. 32.

    Steeplejack

    January 3, 2021 at 10:00 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning! ?

  33. 33.

    Jeffery

    January 3, 2021 at 10:07 am

    I stumbled onto this YouTube site of a woman in upstate New York who is a flower farmer. She has a friendship with a guy who is a flower farmer who Wisconsin. The guy in Wisconsin has developed a new sunflower. The video is part one of four parts talking about the development of the sunflower and flower farming as a living.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T87Q0iOjgEA

  34. 34.

    MoCA Ace

    January 3, 2021 at 11:45 am

    Beautiful pictures.

    I gathered some cup plant (Silphium perfoliatum) seeds many years ago and tossed them out in a newly planted native seed mix I put on my septic drain field.  They have not spread much but each plant probably gets 10 feet tall and has at least 20 stems the size of a broomstick!  My grandkids pluck the dry ones and have “sword ” fights with them.

    I just started receiving my seed catalogs but still too early to dream… usually start thinking of spring in mid February.

  35. 35.

    planetjanet

    January 3, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    Good morning!  I am doing my happy dance this morning.  I have a precious Christmas cactus and today it is starting to bloom.  It is older than I am, at least 80 years.  It was my great grandmother’s and I remember it and the African violets she had in her living room on dainty lace doilies.  My grandmother took care of it after her, sitting it under the maple tree during the spring and summer and bringing in during the winter.  My grandmother took many cuttings off of it over the years to give me to start one of my own.  One lasted about ten years.  My grandmother and great grandmother are all gone now and the cactus passed along to me to nurture.

    Three or four years ago, it nearly died.  I was traveling a lot for business.  I would water it before I left, then my roommate would water it.  I did not know what was going on.  It was almost all gone so I took it to this great garden center (Merrifield)  for advice.  This amazing woman, Vivian, told me to cut off the last couple of segments for each branch and simply put it in a new pot.  It terrified my to think of cutting the plant.  But the feeling of immense failure if I didn’t and they all died, spurred me to follow her advice.  I dipped the ends in root hormone before putting them in fresh cactus soil in little plastic pots.  There were 32 cuttings in all.  Some survived, some did not.  Slowly they have grown and I adore them every morning.  This morning, I saw a tiny little bud with a blush of pink at the end.  The last time this cactus bloomed was the anniversary after my grandmother’s death, which I felt was a sign of her being with me.  Looking at this tiny little bud, I can not help but think of her again.  I miss you Granny.

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    January 3, 2021 at 2:29 pm

    @planetjanet: What a lovely story.  I love christmas cactus anyway, but your story is so touching.  80 years, wow!

    I have some sundrops from my mom’s garden.  She died in 1985, and I am the keeper of the sundrops.  I keep them planted in 3 different places in the yard, just in case something happens in one area.

    Whenever family visits (in the before times) I send them home with some so we can keep the tradition going.

    It’s not 80 years, but I do feel the responsibility of keeping it going, and I feel the connection with my mom.  Your story made me cry.

  37. 37.

    MoCA Ace

    January 3, 2021 at 3:24 pm

    @planetjanet:

    Thank you.  That lovely story snapped me right back to my grandmothers living room.  She had dozens of African violets sitting around the house on those dainty lace doilies too.  She would propagate them and distribute them far and wide.  I was too young to care about such things at the time but I know my dad has some.  I’ll have to get a few for myself.

  38. 38.

    J R in WV

    January 3, 2021 at 3:26 pm

    I have an old Zebra (I think, shiny slick green leaves with white spots) plant that was part of a planting gift at work, after my mom died, 1997. It has had some close calls, but I  water it once a week or so, and fertilize it with Miracle-gro a couple of times a year.

    Also have a night-blooming cerius cactus my cousin gave me. Hers is floor to ceiling run wild in a spare bedroom. Mine is a tiny sprig which never seems to grow larger no matter what… sad. I am not a green thumb person, sadly. Both grandmothers were great gardeners, as was my paternal grandpa. Must have dropped that gene set somehow.

  39. 39.

    Another Scott

    January 3, 2021 at 3:58 pm

    @Mai Naem mobile: Dead thread but, …

    Something that I rediscovered/re-remembered was that Google Lens is very good at identifying plants (and lots of other things).

    I’ve got a plant near my fence that has dark green leaves with yellow splashes and little olive-sized green/red berries hidden underneath.  I took a picture of it, called up Google Lens and it immediately identified it as:

    Spotted Laurel / Japanese Laurel / Aucuba japonica Crotonifolia

    I tried it with the picture of the purple flowers here but it didn’t work as well (wasn’t able to get enough detail) – said it was sage or a rhododendron (obviously incorrect).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    Another Scott

    January 3, 2021 at 4:07 pm

    @Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!):  Thanks for the pointer.  The web page has nice, detailed instructions on how to prepare the bed which I very helpful for novices like me!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  41. 41.

    Pete Mack

    January 3, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    I am still in fixup phase on my recent house purchase in Schenectady, but i am looking at astilbe for the front (tiny, north) yard, and fothergilla, mountain ash for taller shrubs, maybe a few dogwoods. Havent considered what forbs other than astilbe.

  42. 42.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 4, 2021 at 10:36 am

    @Pete Mack: Consider our native Goatsbeard (Aruncus dioicus) in stead of Asian Astilbes for a shady garden. There is an American species of Astilbe but you probably won’t be able to find it for sale.

  43. 43.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    January 4, 2021 at 10:42 am

    @planetjanet: I have several heirloom plants from my Grandmother via my Mother. A large Sweetshrub (Calycanthus florida) a.k.a. Carolina Allspice the is wonderfully fragrant with a fruity scent which smells exactly like Juicy Fruit Chewing gum to me. I also have a Waxvine (Hoya carnosa) which came down in the family. It had a close encounter with severe neglect a few years ago but is slowly recovering and I hope will bloom again soon. I love that super-sweet smell. I think the fragrant plants bring back the best memories!

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