Things are now moving at their own pace. Events are out of the hands of the decision makers. There is a limited amount of time to get things back under control.
Early this evening Vice President Pence, after being consulted by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff GEN Milley and the unqualified Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller, authorized the mobilization and deployment of the National Guard to respond to the attack on the US government instigated and fomented by President Trump and his enablers! This is an illegal order! Vice President Pence is not in the chain of command, he has no authority to issue any such order, and, as a result, the US military is now operating outside of constitutional and lawful civilian control.
As I type this time is running out for Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader McConnell to move to both occupy the high ground and to contact in response to the ongoing events. The revolutionary insurrection that President Trump and his Republican enablers in the House, the Senate, elected Republicans at the state level, and conservative news media has created against the United States is ongoing. As such, Trump needs to be immediately impeached in the House and then the Senate must move to convict and remove him. They need to do it before he decides to up the ante, invoke the Insurrection Act, and declare martial law. We can only imagine what he might try to do with the national security emergency powers he would be granted under such a declaration, but there is no longer the actual time, let alone the political space, to wait around and find out.
If Speaker Pelosi and Senator McConnell do not act now, they will not get the chance to act. It is now or never. Despite the wishes of some, there is no time to wish for Vice President Pence and Trump’s Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment. America as a self governing democratic-republic is in a moment of gravest danger. Speaker Pelosi and Senator McConnell have to lead now lest the danger consume us all. If they don’t, then, as Samuel Adams said:
This meeting can do nothing more to save this country!
Open thread!
debbie
Martin
@debbie: The 25th amendment is a procedure for the executive branch, not the legislative. It’s an activity for the VP and the Cabinet.
Wyatt Salamanca
Frank Figliuzzi on MSNBC: “We need to start preparing for an involuntary extraction of Trump from office”
EmanG
Umm, holy shit? Adam, would the 25th solve this without impeachment? Knowing full well that relies on Pence to invoke it so, umm, holy shit?
feebog
The House might move to impeach, but I’m willing to bet you would still not find 19 Republican Senators to join 48 Democrats to convict.
Wapiti
Yeah, I about shit myself when I read that Pence was involved in getting the NG there. He is not in the chain of command. If he can execute the 25th, then he suddenly is, but until then this is not right.
Wapiti
@feebog: Make them say so. Make them say that they’re traitors.
Calouste
Pelosi’s statement started with:
She’s not the kind of person not to follow up on that.
debbie
@Martin:
They could be working with Pence. He’s already overstepped when calling out the National Guard so he may be open to it.
Jerzy Russian
Impeach, convict, remove, and kick in the nuts. For flexibility, that last item can be done before the other three.
Martin
@EmanG: There’s no exclusivity here. Both the 25th and impeachment should happen. Failure to do so is complicity with what is happening.
Danielx
From downstairs.
Remembered this evening –
From The Coming Fury, Bruce Catton:
…The War Department had gone to great lengths to build up a thoroughly loyal home guard in the District of Columbia to prevent a seizure of power by secessionist sympathizers, and Winfield Scott had remarked that the general tension was such that “a dogfight might cause the gutters of the capital to run with blood”. Just before Lincoln let Springfield, a citizen visited the old general to ask if precautions had been taken to make sure that Congress could formally count the electoral vote; it was being rumored that a mob would rise and prevent it, thus (presumably) making it impossible for Lincoln to take office.
“I supposed that I had suppressed that infamy,” said General Scott. “Has it been revived? I have said that any man who attempted by force or unparliamentary disorder to obstruct or interfere with the lawful count of the electoral vote for the President and Vice President of the United States should be lashed to the muzzle of a twelve pounder and fired out a window of the Capitol. I would manure the hills of Arlington with the fragments of his body, were he a Senator or chief magistrate of my native state!” Subsiding a little, the general added” “While I command the army there will be no revolution in the city of Washington.”
jonas
Shit’s getting real now. If he gets wind that he’s about to get impeached or removed, will he declare martial law? I really hope McConnell and the other GOP leadership are on the phone with Mark Meadows right now telling him he has to get Trump to stand the fuck down and resign.
Matt McIrvin
I can think of a couple of ways they could make Pence activating the DC National Guard a legal order!
Baud
If they do the 25th first, Pence can no longer preside over the certification and Grassley would have to do it.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: How about they focus on the things they can do: impeach and convict. Doesn’t have to go through committee. Just needs a bill of impeachment brought to the floor, up or down vote. If it passes, Pelosi walks it over to McConnell. McConnell brings it up for a vote on conviction and removal, no trial. Up or down vote. Get it done.
There is no way that Pence and the Cabinet are going to invoke the 25th amendment.
Calouste
@feebog: Maybe if they start with expelling some of the traitors? It can’t be that hard to find 19 Republican Senators who want to get rid of Ted Cruz, right?
Zzyzx
This is the one time where the 25th is actually useful if McConnell is on board because there’s a 3 week buffer period before the vote has to happen. It’ll be too late for Trump to get his usual supporters.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: That avenue doesn’t make Pence President, just Acting President. So I think he’d still be President of the Senate. If Trump is impeached and convicted, on the other hand, the office of the Vice-President becomes vacant.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@debbie: Congress role in Section 4 of the 25th Amendment process is secondary, the Vice President and the Cabinet initiate the process.
@Adam in the OP: The VP authorizing the DC National Guard had me scratching my head too, did Trump resign and not tell anyone?
EmanG
@Martin, thx and agreed.
Wyatt Salamanca
@Jerzy Russian:
Completely agree. I like to think of the wins by Warnock and Ossoff as metaphorical kicks in the nuts
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I don’t think he can hold both, even as acting. Not sure.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
And I don’t think the Republicans will go along with what you’re proposing.
Martin
@Baud: There was a report Monday that Grassley would be presiding as Pence wouldn’t be available today.
I wasn’t sure what to make of it then, but something larger is afoot. I wonder if Pence has been trying to enact the 25th amendment but can’t get enough of the cabinet on board.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: He could recuse himself, anyway–that’s been done.
Adam L Silverman
@EmanG: There is no way, shape, or form that the 25th will be invoked. Either Congress acts now or we deal with their inaction.
Benw
@Adam L Silverman: Rep Omar has already stated she’s working on the articles. Start from there and get them into McConnell’s lap. Fuck these Republican traitors
PJ
@feebog: I think you only need 18 Republicans (2/3 of 98 is 66) but the point stands.
Adam L Silverman
@feebog: I’m not sanguine about it. But it still has to be done.
Kent
If you are going to have to depend on REPUBLICANS to remove him, the 25th Amendment is the way to go, not impeachment.
Kattails
Just said in Adam’s earlier thread that IF Pence is willing to order out the National Guard then he needs to grow the pair that will let him invoke the 25th. I’ve already called all three of my Congresswomen to tell them I absolutely support immediate impeachment and the strongest of consequences for those enabling this. But just for fun I’m calling again.
Luthiengineer
@Adam L Silverman:
Great in theory, up or down votes. Does Pelosi even understand the danger? I know she’s a smart woman, but they have seemingly been caught flat-footed with Trump’s consistent violations of norms.
Does anyone know her? Can someone here get a message to her?
Cheryl Rofer
Worrisome, but I’ve always had another concern.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Yep. Congress has a set of tools at their disposal. Use them. Worry about what’s next after that’s done.
debbie
@Kent:
Agreed. How many Cabinet members are needed for it?
Patricia Kayden
Truth
Adam L Silverman
@Danielx: My favorite history of the Civil War.
jonas
The GOP and Trump’s inner circle and cabinet, save maybe for Pence and Mnuchin, are so far gone, I don’t think the 25A is in play at this point. They have to get him to resign somehow. Promise that Pence will pardon everything, whatever. I don’t know that even after today enough GOP senators have the balls to flip and remove him.
guachi
Yes. Trump must be impeached and removed from office.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: No, it’s an illegal order. Any of those Soldiers wind up hurting, let alone killing anyone, and they are way over the line with their butts hanging out and no top cover.
lamh36
Took you long enough JACK…12 hrs, still Not fu’qn long enough
Regular folks have gotten more for less offensive shit
Kent
Honestly, I think the more likely scenario is a negotiated Nixon-style resignation paired with a Nixon-style pardon.
Pence and other aids talk him into resigning with the promise of a pardon.
TS (the original)
So the media has met its moment. Even David Ignatius (he of each side non-useful Wapo reporting) is calling this an insurrection.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent: “Why can’t we have both.”
Wapiti
I’m happy to see that Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (Eastern WA) will no longer object to Biden’s electors. Someone woke the fuck up.
debbie
FB is telling me Twitter’s locked Twitler’s account for 12 hours!
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: They may not, but you either use the power you have or you lose it.
Ken
@debbie: Do “acting” cabinet secretaries count for determining how many are needed? I’ve lost track of how many of those we have.
TS (the original)
@lamh36:
Profiles in non courage from social media
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Grassley’s dementia and pseudo-aphasia.
Cheryl Rofer
I think that Congress must certify the election of Joseph R. Biden and Kamala D. Harris before impeachment. VP Pence could start on 25th certification simultaneously.
Kent
I wanna say a majority but I’m too lazy to google. I expect that unconfirmed acting cabinet members don’t count (like HHS and DOD) but I don’t really know if they get a vote or not. Probably not. I don’t even know how many acting cabinet secretaries there are right now. At least 3 (DOD, DOJ, and HHS).
Martin
@Kent: You do both. Even if impeachment fails, you will have a clear record of who supports this.
A big part of trust in government is simply making sure the gears always turn, and being able to witness them turning.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: You and me both!
Ken
Any chance that could lead to an “It was at that point that my weapon accidentally discharged, three times” moment?
West of the Rockies
@Jerzy Russian:
Or between each step and repeatedly…
Adam L Silverman
@Ken: All of them Katie!
lamh36
Martin
@Kent: VP + majority of cabinet. It gets transmitted to Chuck Grassley.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ken: I was wondering that too.
Kent
Oh, I agree. I still think the more likely scenario is a Nixon resignation and Nixon pardon. But we are completely off the map here.
Apparently Twitter is turning off Trump’s account completely. So shit is getting real.
Cheryl Rofer
Patricia Kayden
Frankensteinbeck
@Cheryl Rofer:
This. Without McConnell on-board, impeachment is a statement, and I have no reason to believe McConnell would go along with it. There is one process that we know will remove Trump, even though we’ll have to wait two more weeks for it to finish. That must be our priority.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent: Also DHS.
Chris
@Danielx:
“Thoroughly loyal home guard” is the kind of thing Democratic politicians need to be giving serious thought to, given that it’s increasingly clear that most police agencies are thoroughly unreliable.
Kent
Right. But what do they do about acting cabinet secretaries? Can they vote if they are unconfirmed? Is it a majority of the number of cabinet positions or a majority of the number of confirmed members of the cabinet?
Cheryl Rofer
@Ken: Jeffrey Lewis (@ArmsControlWonk) wrote a book, “The Report on the 2020 Nuclear War With North Korea,” in the form of a government after-report. One of the scenes is a scuffle between Trump and the football carrier. No gun discharge, though.
Martin
@Kent: I wouldn’t count on the next AG respecting that pardon.
Leto
I’m finally starting to understand why people say we need more time between threads; I just now saw this. :P
Avalune is demanding food so we’re taking a break for the next 30-45. Don’t burn the place down!
M31
kick in the nuts, impeach, kick in the nuts, convict, kick in the nuts, remove, kick in the nuts, kick in the nuts one more time for good measure
Spanky
Once Trump objects to the invocation of the 25th, shit can get dragged out well past the 20th. Impeachment & removal is the only logical, non-violent recourse.
banditqueen
Impeach the orange, lawless fascist tonight; remove Cruz, Hawley, and the rest of the filthy dozen from the senate, and the same goes for the house rats. Then prosecute them all for their complicity in this attempted coup.
Kent
Maybe not, but it would go to SCOTUS in a heartbeat if the next AG starts any prosecutions or indictments.
jl
I agree. Need to impeach, try, convict and remove asap. Do it right after they finish the count. If the treacherous coup plotters in Congress still want to drag it out, see if emough votes for Congress to expel them, and if not, get on to getting Trump out of office in the meantime.
feebog
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, well if nothing else, it would shine a light on the seditionists. You might get a half dozen or so to join Romney. After that it’s slim pickin’s.
Mary G
I’m with Adam. Impeach right after they confirm the Electoral College vote; make the motherfuckers put their names on one line or another, take it to McConnell, who’ll probably sit on it, but make it clear we are going to play hardball. 25th is out of Democrats’ control. It would be nice, but as GHWB used to say on SNL: nah gonna happen.
Martin
@Kent: It says principal officers, so I pretty much guarantee USSC will need to determine whether an unconfirmed secretary counts for 25th amendment purposes, so I think you take your pick and send it to Grassley.
LevelB
I thought Trump could be impeached after he is out of office. Which would keep him from being eligible for federal office. That’s not nothing.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: I gave you a heads up in my previous thread!
scav
When is tarring, feathering and riding out on a rail indicated? They’re old fashioned remedies — possibly even traditional (and in no way couldn’t be combined with a little modern nut-kicking).
Matt McIrvin
@Spanky:
At which point it’s moot, because they already approved the electoral votes and his term has ended. In the meantime, Pence serves as Acting President
Anyway, the impeachment route has a far greater chance of succeeding.
Martin
@Kent: As it should. In fact, I would argue they should do that if only to clarify the limitations of the pardon.
My guess is that USSC would rule the pardon invalid. It’s too self-serving.
patrick II
Is thisTrump blackmail looking for a Nixon-like deal with a pardon?
jl
@feebog: The criminals and fools in Congress should just give it up. They are done for. The Trumpsters are done with them because they can’t stop lawful constitutional democratic governance (as Trump promised his faithful that they could). The vast majority of the public is done with them because they’ve revealed themselves to be foolish, depraved, and dangerous criminals who are attacking our democracy.
catclub
Rep Cory Bush probably knows her, and already sent the message in an NPR interview. I needed a cigarette after hearing that on NPR.
Jerzy Russian
@West of the Rockies: I like the way you think!
CatFacts
For what it’s worth, a Politico reporter named Lara Seligman is saying on her Twitter account that the reports Pence ordered the National Guard are wrong. She says it was the acting secretary of defense.
Martin
@Spanky: The 25th is immediate once it gets to Grassley. Trump can object, but he’s objecting as a private citizen, not as President any longer.
banditqueen
The woman shot in the Capitol earlier today has died: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/06/dc-protests-trump-rally-live-updates/
The filthy dozen in the senate are complicit, as is the orange fascist, and the house rats.
Kent
What the ever living fuck is this about. Anyone know? Was he caucusing with the Democrats and a Pelosi supporter?
EDIT: Never mind, he is in the Georgia statehouse not the US Congress. I was wondering WTF.
Just Some Fuckhead
DO IMPEACHMENT AND 25TH AMENDMENT AND THEN STAKE THROUGH THE HEART AND THEN BURN IT AND SCATTER THE ASHES TO THE FOUR WINDS
dmsilev
Agreed. Impeachment is important. even if McConnell isn’t on-board with a fast trial (he could easily stretch things out beyond the 20th, protecting his caucus from having to cast a vote). If nothing else, even if it doesn’t get Trump out of office immediately, it writes into history the condemnation of his actions.
catclub
then renege, he will recognize that move.
Another Scott
Senate resumes at 8 PM ET. I assume that the House will as well, or shortly thereafter.
Cheers,
Scott.
William D
Just sent Senator Feinstein an email via her website wishing her well given today’s events– and entreating her to support a quick impeachment. Included a quote and web address from this blog post.
Frankensteinbeck
@patrick II:
Trump will not willingly give up the presidency under any circumstances. He may, and probably will, slink off somewhere and complain that he’s still president and it’s illegal when Biden moves into the White House. It’s a narcissist thing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
anonymous claim: McCarthy staffers threatening to resign.
Just. Do it.
Karen
I’m confused. How are McConnell and Pelosi supposed to act on?
jl
@Martin: I had time to look it up. VP and cabinet can veto president’s “I’m OK, FU” letter, then it goes to Congress. Looks like 2/3’s vote in joint session to sustain veto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Just Some Fuckhead
Remember when McConnell and Republicans wouldn’t allow witnesses and Roberts presided over the whole sham? Good times.
MobiusKlein
@Adam L Silverman:
Then Biden shall pardon them for following Pence’s order.
Mary G
Matt McIrvin
@jl: But they have 21 days after the hearing to actually do the vote, so I think it would be possible to just stall and run out the clock.
jl
@MobiusKlein: I’ve read that military brass have been giving troops a crash course review of ‘serious life problems’ that will ensue after carrying out illegal orders. I hope that’s the case.
Calouste
@Martin: He will still be President if the 25th is invoked, the powers will belong to the VP though. It’s been invoked a couple of times when Bush II had surgery, for a few hours each time.
satby
Look who agrees with Adam:
Bill Kristol @BillKristol
3h
What should happen in the next 24 hours: 1. Clear the Capitol—as peacefully as possible, but in any case remove the mob from the seat of the legislative branch of our government. 2. Reconvene and finish counting the electoral votes. 3. Impeach in the House, convict in the Senate
Baud
@Kent:
State rep. Not Congress critter.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Martin: If the 25th Amendment Section 4 were invoked, Trump would still be President, but would have not have the powers of President. Pence would be Acting President.
Just Some Fuckhead
Insurrectionists still milling around an hour and a half after curfew waiting for buses to take them home, not police wagons to take them to jail – all the while taunting the cops. Christ, it must be a heady thing to be a white conservative.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: The guy is bugfuck nuts. Has been for years.
Mary G
Mary G
@Mary G:
Zzyzx
@jl: But the catch seems to be that the 2/3 vote doesn’t have to happen for 3 weeks and Pence is president until then. Normally I mock the whole 25th Amendment approach but this time it works.
Baud
gene108
@debbie:
How many Cabinet members are there actually? Do the acting Secretaries get a vote?
CaseyL
Well, for what it’s worth, I’ve emailed my Congressional Rep and my two Senators, asking them to impeach and convict, asap, on the basis that Trump is an air-raid-siren, red-alert, threat to the safety of the US right here and right now.
They’re all Democrats – in fact, my Rep is that oh so polite firebrand Pramila Jayapal – but I don’t know how chaotic things are now. We’re asking them to think about a dozen things at once, all desperately important.
ETA: Yes, I am aware that checking their in boxes is probably not high on the list of priorities right now.
Another Scott
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Warblewarble
Forget look forward not back. Look at now and deal with it as it needs.
Adam L Silverman
@Karen: Impeaching him in the House and convicting him and removing him in the Senate.
Jinchi
Right. Trump will never trust Pence to follow through, because he has always reneged on a deal the moment the other party loses their leverage.
(Now that I think of it: I wonder how many Trump donors are chewing their nails today because they haven’t received their fully paid for Trump pardons yet.)
Citizen Alan
@Kent: He’s a GA state rep, not in the House. And a nut, apparently.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Martin:
You don’t have to respect the pardon.
Just honor Iran’s extradition request. Easy peasy, lemon squeezey.
Martin
Good on Congress for returning. I know Adam would argue it’s not safe, and I agree. But courage matters. It’s a statement that there are more important things than personal safety.
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck: I agree. He is not going to be impeached and convicted in one night or in 14 days. This behavior has always been the danger since the day he was elected.
Baud
@Martin:
I agree.
Jinchi
But what are they demanding?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
all of them proudly smiling and waving the evidence of destruction of federal property, which sounds like a crime to this non-lawyer
Rachel Maddow says Ron Paul just hinted the Senate is gonna drop all their show-boat show-voting. But I don’t trust Rand Paul to speak for himself, much less Cruz and Tuberville. Has Josh Hawley poked his little head up since his fist pump picture before the glass started breaking
ETA: Mrs Kushner, as twitter Nixon always calls her, called these people “patriots”
Baud
MSNBC saying Rand Paul says there will be one certification vote for the whole shebang. Good if true.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: They wouldn’t be returning if it wasn’t safe. And I guarantee that assessment was made by the FBI’s and US Secret Service’s tactical response folks.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:The problem is that you’re not going to get the House crazies not to bring them and I’m not sure anyone has any control over Tuberville. Including Tuberville. So that’s at least one senator.
Kent
Yeah, I panicked thinking he was a GA Congressman. Then I googled him up and figured it out.
Fair Economist
@Spanky:
From my reading, Pence would immediately assume Presidential powers, and Trump would not be able to get them back for 4 days at least, and longer if Congress dallies. It’s not super clear on what happens during the contested period, but I think the President does not regain power if the VP and Cabinet majority continue to oppose him until Congress has voted on the issue. Which means Pence+1/2 Cabinet + Pelosi can shut him out for almost 4 weeks.
Jinchi
Rand Paul already publicly came out against the Hawley-Cruz stunt.
raven
Is there confirmation that any of these fuckers were armed?
Cheryl Rofer
Adam, here’s an early explanation of what went wrong with the Capitol Police. I can’t read it (paywall), but maybe you can. Headline sounds plausible, another instance of preparing for the last war.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
always keeping their eyes focused on the Real Enemy
Me, I’m glad my fellow-travellers in politics heeded Mayor Bowser’s request to stay away from these fuckers
Adam L Silverman
@Jinchi: A million dollars, a helicopter to escape in, and the letter “M” to be stricken and removed from the English language.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Assholes on my FB page are still insisting they are fake Trump supporters, ie, Antifa or BLM.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Me too.
Kent
In other news, the stock market closed up today. The Dow rose 437 points on the news of insurrection in the capitol.
WTF????
EDIT: On second thought, it’s probably on the news of Warnock and Ossoff’s victory and the Dem’s taking the Senate making additional economic stimulus more likely.
Mary G
You’re right, Adam. They’re still going to come at us:
Calouste
@Adam L Silverman: As long as 2/3 of both chambers agree, they can make it clear that any break the chambers need to take to consider an objection will start with a vote to expel the objector.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I guess they’re gonna wait for tomorrow’s violent attack on our own government
Baud
First Lady’s chief of staff resigned.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
Wonder if those federal authorities were Trump hires? That would surely point to the real intent.
L85NJGT
Chuckster says it’s down to Hawley and Cruz in the Senate.
jl
@Zzyzx: Pence is better than Trump. And if Pence decides to go down to the last with Trump and barricade himself on federal property, I think his residence is at the Naval Observatory, so he’ll be under military guard.
Kent
No one and I mean NO ONE wants to be in the Fuhrer Bunker for the next two weeks I suspect.
dc
@Mary G: They should remove him, he’s a with the Coup crew.
debbie
It’s exhausting just trying to keep up!
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Disappointing. Even if that’s what you feel, don’t say it that way. Although those ellipses worry me.
Another Scott
The House is starting up now, on C-Span 2.That was from earlier today. The House is expected to start up again tonight though.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
@Kent: A would be tyrant doesn’t cause their praetorian guard to hate their guts. Been known for millennia. You can make a whole study of it from the late Roman Empire.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
Never mind. I just can’t read and comprehend…
Steeplejack
Somebody sent me a graphic with this text:
Anya
I think social media companies deplatforming him would do more damage to him than anything else. He will not be able to spread his lies or market his future grifts or reality tv that Mark Burnett is probably working on as we speak.
Kattails
@schrodingers_cat: AsI have understood it from some of the conversations here, if Trump is under impeachment he is effectively hobbled as to what orders he can give. Perhaps I didn’t understand that correctly.
MisterForkbeard
I see we’re that the police have announced that they arrested some people.
13 people.
Just 13 people. Ugh.
Baud
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis:
The italicized phrase requires a preexisting statute.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This sounds like something that was prepared pre-coup and they didn’t even work on their messaging. Very disappointing. At the very least, condemn in the strongest terms what happened and ignore the rest.
jl
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: IANAL, and I’m not sure I understood the whole process, and how the different clauses go to together, either. But I think VP can get the process started very quickly.
Matt McIrvin
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: “such other body as Congress may by law provide” I think means Congress has to pass a law to designate whose approval is needed (if not the Cabinet), not that Congress can substitute immediately.
Punchy
@Adam L Silverman: there’s no way you’ll find 10, let alone near 20 GOP Senators needed to convict. You’re vastly underestimating the grip Trump has on these cowards.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Kent: Yeah, markets didn’t have time to react to the shit really hitting the fan. Tomorrow will probably be interesting.
I’m very very worried about what crap he’s going to pull on Inauguration Day. Because I don’t see the Republicans helping neuter him during these last two weeks. We need better protections put in place between now and then.
germy
jl
@Matt McIrvin: But process is set to go and can get the incapacitated pres out very quickly if it VP takes it to the cabinet, right? At least until the pres sends his ‘FU’ letter.
lamh36
PBO statement on the violence at Capitol Hill https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1346983894298595330?s=20
patrick II
@Frankensteinbeck:
You are right. I was reading earlier comments about someone talking to him and having him leave like Nixon, so I thought maybe that is the point of this. But it’s not. I am not sure what it is.
I am also reading here that the Senate won’t have the votes to impeach, even after inciting violence in the Capitol building. Unbelievable.
Cacti
I about fell out of my chair when I heard this.
The National Association of Manufacturers released a statement calling on Pence to invoke the 25th and remove Trump from office.
Cheryl Rofer
bluefoot
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: everyone should call/email their Congresspeople’s offices to encourage them to impeach.
Frankensteinbeck
If Cruz and Hawley are the only ones still objecting, they have a total of 10 minutes, tops, to delay each state vote. 5 minutes to speak, each, if they take it. It marks them as absolute screaming assholes who the whole rest of their caucuses will hate, but it allows for the process to still be pretty quick.
Matt McIrvin
@jl: Yes, I think Pence becomes Acting President immediately as soon as he gets that Cabinet majority to support him.
Gravenstone
@EmanG: I am thinking the Republicans might be pushing back on impeachment because it would vividly remind everyone of their craven refusal to convict just under a year ago – which would have headed off this whole fuckshow. Of course, his cultists will do their damndest to burn the Republican party down if they do indeed convict following a second impeachment.
Of course, convincing Pence to invoke the 25th isn’t likely to work out much better for them. Because his cultists will do their damndest to burn the Republican party down (not that I have an issue with this).
Either way, in a just world the Republican party dies tonight. We just need to make sure it doesn’t take us with it.
Frank Wilhoit
@Adam L Silverman: There could not possibly have been time to sweep the building.
banditqueen
@MisterForkbeard: Wow. 13 white people. If they were black it would be 13 body bags and 1300 in jail. How many of them destroyed the CNN equipment? Stormed and damaged the Capitol, broke into offices, carried weapons on the DC streets? JFC, the ‘authorities’ corralled then arrested thousands of George Floyd protestors, did the same in DC this past summer.
Brachiator
In the Beltway, the quiet Beltway,
Let’s impeach Donald tonight
In the Beltway, the quiet Beltway,
Let’s impeach Donald tonight
Just Some Fuckhead
@Baud: Rand Paul also said we shouldn’t blame anyone for today’s failed coup.
bluehill
@L85NJGT: Odd interpretation of “support and defend the Constitution.”
Cameron
@MisterForkbeard: C’mon. They had to look really hard to find that many black people.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Mike in NC
I read last night that if the fucker were to be impeached again, he’d be ineligible to run for anything.
Adam L Silverman
@Punchy: I am not. But it still must be attempted.
Gravenstone
Let’s do this shit right.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike in NC: I think he’d have to be convicted at least once, even if he were impeached every time he should have been
L85NJGT
@bluehill:
Those idiots bet their presidential runs on this lunacy.
Adam L Silverman
I’ve got to go eat something.
Benw
@Cheryl Rofer: I read it. As one commenter said: “that’s a pathetic farce”.
The police have shown us who they are, over and over. They are racist. They are there to maintain white supremacy. The narrative floated in the article that the police took a long hard look at all the violence they perpetrated during the BLM protests, realized their errors, and decided to scale back here because it’s the RIGHT THING TO DO (and race had nothing to do with it) is nonsensical.
Why do we keep making excuses for them?
Baud
Mcconnell coming up soon.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Cheryl Rofer: Awesome statement. I liked that he connected the dots. One dot left unconnected is the Republican rhetoric that Democratic presidents are always illegitimate for this or that reason for the last many years. That has led us here.
Mary G
They evacuated the ballot boxes too.
Steeplejack
Pence just starting to speak on the Senate floor.
ETA: He is such a dead fish.
Another Scott
Pence is speaking in the Senate.
Cheers,
Scott.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: I went back and read it; I’ll always listen to what you have to say about it because it’s always on point.
lamh36
jimmiraybob
This should be a bipartisan slam dunk at this point. Except for the extremist fringes like Josh Hawley (R-MO; my Senator), Republicans no longer need Trump. This is a chance to clearly choose country over would be dictator. The House would/will pass articles and maybe, just maybe, the Senate will convict this time around. Everybody will benefit. Otherwise it’ll be Trump 2024 for the next four years. I can’t see that working out well for the GOP.
Leto
@Another Scott: current feed of Pence speaking.
burnspbesq
Pence rose to the occasion. “Let’s get back to work.”
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Complete Mad-Libs bullshit from Pence.
McConnell speaking now.
Martin
@Cheryl Rofer: I’m having this conversation with my daughter right now. It could be reasonably explained that they have a procedure for a 10K person protest and a million person protest and that’s why the BLM images are so different from the ones today.
But that needs to be surfaced publicly, for people to hear, and for people to question. Maybe a 10K person protest that is threatening violence should be handled differently than a million person protest that doesn’t threaten violence?
But if it’s not surfaced publicly, then people are going to infer why they were handled differently, and there’s lots of evidence supporting that police have very different standards for how they treat people, and lots of evidence supporting that police are inherently authoritarian.
Anya
My dad said that today’s events reminded him of getting caught up in 1981 attempted coup in Thailand. This was his gap year.
Gravenstone
@lamh36: Wonder if he’ll remember he has the official #POTUS account as well? Hopefully they never told him.
Steeplejack
@burnspbesq:
That was his only good line.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@Punchy: I agree. As much as I wish that Adam were correct, they won’t do. The only thing they’ll do tonight is certify the Electoral Ballots. The House MIGHT pass Impeachment but it will never see the light of day in the Senate. In the meantime Trump has everything he needs in that little nuclear case at his side. It’s maddening.
Leto
@Mary G: again, women save the day.
zhena gogolia
@burnspbesq:
@Steeplejack:
Which is it?
Martin
McConnell just indicated that there is still a planned protest to AZ electors. That was going to be Ted Cruz’s hill to die on, but someone is still planning to die on it.
Catatonia
McConnell doin’ the Albert Speer shuffle.
moops
@CaseyL: Feinstein’s voicemail box is full, so no access that way.
How can a voicemail box in 2021 be “full”?
Mike in NC
So are all of these fucking rioters going to spend a few nights at a Trump property? He’s probably offering a nice “coup discount” to preserve his fat ass.
Martin
@Anya: That’s a hell of a gap year and makes a great story for your college application.
zhena gogolia
Head-scratcher.
The Thin Black Duke
@Martin: Please don’t make this more complicated than it is. POC know what went down today; it’s white people that need to be educated.
Subsole
@Adam L Silverman: As far as dealing with it…
I have no illusions about my capacities as an urban guerilla, and I am the opposite of a street-fighting man, but I am plenty fucking angry after today.
No. I was angry in 2016. I am now transcendentally furious.
What would you recommend an ordinary American do to resist this? Failing that, anything we should emphatically NOT do??
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@Frank Wilhoit: Actually they did and found pipe bombs which were safely detonated, per CNN article.
TheflipPsyd
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ugh. Carter (and Coons) are not progressives. They are corporatists and for the status quo. Very pro business. Almost complete wastes of space except they do vote for most Democratic sponsored laws. Both believe in the religion of bipartisanship. I have called Carper’s office multiple times. His response is always centrist dem but he has excellent constituency services. I won’t deal with Coons anymore. His constituency services were really bad, but that was a number of years ago. He was primaried from the left this fall but unfortunately Jess Scarane lost. She would have been a true progressive Senator. He did end up moving to the left a bit in response to her campaign.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Martin: People on CNN are certainly talking about the contrast between BLM and today.
We’re watching developments on CNN. First time I’ve watched them in I don’t know how long. All of 2020 at least.
They’re streaming the congressional electoral vote counting now. Just had to listen to Pence and Yertle. Schumer now talking.
Cheryl Rofer
@Martin: There needs to be a thorough investigation. One of many.
zhena gogolia
Geoduck
My predictions seldom come true, but what the hell. I say he doesn’t get impeached, he doesn’t get 25th-ed. We’re stuck with him for two more horrible weeks.
Subsole
@Kent: As I understand, Adam is saying we haven’t got the time. Due to the lag-time inherent in the procedure, Trump could circular-file the letter and run out the clock.
So yeah, that is the surer way, but no time.
zhena gogolia
I liked Pelosi’s reference to Epiphany. (I know not everybody will.)
Kent
Well sure. But they weren’t going to lose their jobs in 15 days anyway. And the Romans were pretty quick to deal with any form of insurrection with instant death. I’m not sure the First Lady’s chief of staff is the same as Nero’s personal bodyguard.
Praetorians weren’t worried about how their resume was going to look to future corporate employers.
VOR
@Matt McIrvin: Yes, Congress could create a board or commission which could make a determination if the President was able to fulfill his duties. For example, a panel of doctors specifically designated. But this has not been done so it’s up to the VP and Cabinet.
Just Some Fuckhead
Wow! McConnell called it an insurrection. I was certain he’d find a way to blame Democrats.
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Fuck that weasel; just clone Chris Coons, Delaware!
Jeffro
@Just Some Fuckhead: heard that too
Subsole
@Cheryl Rofer: People said I needed to take a break when I brought up nukes…
Cheryl, perhaps you can tell me: is there any way to aim our nukes at American soil?
Or do I legit need to take a break?
L85NJGT
@Just Some Fuckhead:
His voice was breaking. Gaze into the abyss……
Subsole
@Calouste: I have heard they are moving to expel them, as well as the impeachment.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
@Martin: I heard the security expert on NBC saying how each year the Super Bowl is designated a National Security Event, and the FBI etc. take over security. That surely intelligence knew about today and the same designation and plans could have been made.
hindsight.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@Subsole: I feel the same way…I found myself wishing I was in DC today with my revolver because clearly the police weren’t doing any damn good.
And I don’t buy the WSJ article that they decided to meet this protest with less force to “keep tensions lower”. I don’t buy it at all.
Ksmiami
@Kent: it was up much higher earlier.
Gravenstone
@Mary G: Ooh, there’s a sternly worded letter for ya!
Herman_Newticks
Hi Adam. Not an expert on this, but the DC National guard “About” webpage says there is a delegation to the SecDef. https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/
Seems like the VP role was maybe just consultative? Either way, I agree it is past time for impeachment or the 25th A.
Kent
Probably getting sick and tired of all the Trump Tariffs that have been bleeding their bottom line.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Lankford demagoguing about voter fraud even as he praises the failed efforts of the Capital police
Mary G
Republicans rapidly covering their asses. I just keep saying fuck you at the end of every line out of Pence, McConnell and Lankford’s mouths.
cain
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t see how McConnell is going to do that. He would be signing his death warrant on his political career. KY loves them some MAGA.
Subsole
@TS (the original): That crusty discount-Rasputin fuck is too busy mining bitcoin to worry about the collapse of democracy…
jimmiraybob
Someone just told me that Schumer just referred to Pence as “Mr. President” on the floor of the Senate Chamber….twice. Has the deed been done?
Edit: My informant just made a correction. Got my pulse going though.
TS (the original)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Weasel – all trying to pretend the GOP in congress did nothing wrong.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I hope somebody on our side mentions that Democrats have been trying to protect elections and the sanctity of the franchise for years, and would be happy to see Senator Lankford (et al) support the John Lewis Voting Rights Act
banditqueen
@Martin: No, a nice NYT analysis of what was going down in DC today just doesn’t explain the facts that office break-ins, theft, destruction of property, weapons on the streets–all of this taking place over the course of just a few hours & with only 13 arrests–were tolerated and indulged by the police. I have no doubt that were this a BLM protest with far less damage and theft, that there would have been riot gear, massive tear gas, helicopters, and 13 dead and 1300 in prison.
Anya
If Republicans were smart, they would use this opportunity to marginalize Trump and denounce him. The great majority of the American people are scared tonight and and they don’t want this. This is the time to get rid of him and for good. Let him be the president of the crazies.
Lavocat
This is going to sound crazy but …
Could the 25th Amendment have already been (secretly) invoked? If so, this would certainly explain Pence’s actions.
At this point, American government may be headless.
Be scared. Be very scared.
Baud
@jimmiraybob:
President of the Senate. It’s customary.
Another Scott
@Mary G: I’m watching C-Span 2. It’s much less rage-inducing to mute it when the GOPers are speaking. ;-)
Cotez Mastro (NV) is very good.
Cheers,
Scott.
Immanentize
@The Thin Black Duke: this
Kent
Trump fucking him on the $2000 stimulus and causing him to lose his majority was probably the last straw. Without Trump he is almost certainly Majority Leader in the next Congress.
McConnell is nothing if not ruthless.
Calouste
@jimmiraybob: The VP is President of the Senate, and is probably addressed that way when he’s there.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
@Kent: It’s a strong statement.
NBC wondering if Lankford was the last holdout on the objections; that they are going to do the counting without the objection BS. My wife asked me turn away from their talking heads, though, to listen to the actual senators.
zhena gogolia
@jimmiraybob:
It probably is because he “presides” over the Senate.
Elizabelle
Norm Ornstein’s tweet:, maybe 3 hours ago:
Mary G
@jimmiraybob: The Vice President is the President of the Senate when he’s there. I think.
Just Some Fuckhead
Listening to Republicans express horror in the aftermath of a failed coup just brings home the fact they literally cannot see something is shit until the shit hits the fan and they are covered in it. And then it’s like, oh wow, it’s shit, see?
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: So are they in the senate chambers now, instead of the House, where they were this morning?
L85NJGT
@cain:
He’s old, sick, and will never be Majority Leader again.
Lankford weasel worded it, but he threw in the towel.
Gravenstone
@Mary G: Time for a quick vote of expulsion from the Senate? C’mon Mitch, show me you actually give a fuck now that your children got the shit scared out of them.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I was wondering why where was so much blathering going on. But they’re talking about Arizona now. So I guess this is the beginning of the debate on the Arizona objection? Is this going to go on two more hours? Then we have to do it again for the other objections?
Mary G
@Another Scott: She really is; I’ve never heard her speak before and I’m very impressed.
Spanky
@jimmiraybob: Probbly the elebenteenth to say this, but that’s a referral to the presiding officer of the Senate. SOP.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Kent: No, I think it’s that Republicans are incapable of foreseeing bad consequences until those consequences impact them personally.
Baud
Are they debating Arizona now in the Senate?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
jl
@Kent: ” Probably getting sick and tired of all the Trump Tariffs that have been bleeding their bottom line. ”
Call me cynical, but probably hoping if there is an acting president Pence tonight, stock market crater tomorrow morning and for the rest of the week and maybe longer, won’t be so wide and deep. Fewer debris smashing stuff up for miles around.
YY_Sima Qian
Waking up in China to find this… Speechless.
While the farce of an insurrection will do nothing too stop the certification of Electoral College or the transition (unless Trump invokes emergency powers, as Adam fears), the sad spectacle will only unfortunately serve to discredit democracy in the eyes of many in the world and give free ammunition to the totalitarians, authoritarians, oligarchs and illiberal “democrats”.
The farce this time around will also make a more serious one the next time around much more likely. The farce of a response by the Capitol Police has certainly not established deterrence, and only serve as invitation to try again.
Until the domestic houses are sorted, the US/UK should leave the promotion/sermonizing of democracy to the the real functioning democracies.
Leto
@Herman_Newticks: retired military member here; we don’t do “consultations”. We have clear chains of command for this exact purpose. Anything outside of that is illegal.
Benw
@The Thin Black Duke: thank you!
Immanentize
@Baud: I was gonna do that, thanks.
debbie
Well, Lee is about to be an asshole.
Catatonia
Ghouliani is obviously a GOT fanboy. “Trial by combat” is a lift from Tyrion Lannister.
Leto
@Baud: well we have one side upholding democracy, the other side helped foment an insurrection today. I guess we’re debating? :P
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: George on ABC said this would go on for an hour and a half; and also in the House.
Roland
@EmanG:
Did this jackass see any of this coming? LOL He isn’t plugged into shit. Poser writ large. LOL
jonas
@Cheryl Rofer: Trump’s not interested in starting a fucking nuclear war right now. He’s interested in being a bemedaled caudillo in mirror shades reviewing the tank parade, followed by a triumphant reception for winning “International Human of the Year” six years running, presented to him by a bevy of bikini models.
All this election-loss stuff is really cramping his style.
Immanentize
@Baud: I suspected this would be the “compromise “. Finish the bullshit on Arizona for your future adverts, but no further Senate objections after that.
Baud
The House isn’t back yet?
raven
@Catatonia: How would his sorry ass know.
TS (the original)
@debbie:
He is indeed – still stating their are issues with the election – still inciting people to object to the election result. A true a.h.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@YY_Sima Qian:
AfD has made great gains in Germany. This isn’t just a uniquely American or British phenomenon. This is happening all over the world and social media companies like FaceBook are responsible
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mary G: Yes, this. Both of McConnell’s speeches talking about following the Constitution, precedents, norms, whatever, no matter what had me asking “What about Merrick Garland, douchebag?”
raven
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: It sounds to me like they are not going to do that.
Spanky
@debbie:
I thought that was congenital.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Burn him and go sell shoes, Acosta. I’ll buy a pair every month.
ETA: aren’t there time limits on these speeches, that talking thumb from Utah went on (maskless) for far too long
Leto
Mike Lee reaching out to multiple states doing his own investigation of ballots? Like… what the fuck?
LeftCoastYankee
Oh good lord, Mike Lee is man-splaining the Constitution to the Senate. Sweet Jesus that man is a git.
Fraud Guy
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: My guess on how Lankford worded his two minutes is that they will complete the Arizona objection, then basically pass the rest as fast as possible.
raven
@Fraud Guy: And that is where Lee is going.
Another Scott
BENNET
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
I was hoping to see the end but it looks like it’ll be late.
Mary G
@LeftCoastYankee: I was just getting ready to type that same thing. Mansplaining at an Olympic level.
All I could think about was him going around maskless hugging people at the Amy Covid Barrett superspreader party.
gene108
@Geoduck:
I don’t think anything will be done to Trump.
Republicans cannot admit mistakes. To remove him from office will mean they are implicitly admitting supporting him is a bad move.
jimmiraybob
RE: Schumer calling Pence “Mr. President.” I got too excited and I didn’t get to the edit button fast enough. Apologies all around.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
Michael Bennet, who delivered my favorite rant of all time–against Ted Cruz and his crocodile tears.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Leto: How fortunate are we that Mike Lee is personally ensuring the integrity of other states’ elections?
Immanentize
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s news? We have fallen far.
In a year everyone will be like, who knew? How did he go crazy? Was it the Covid?
Just Some Fuckhead
This is why nothing will happen.
gene108
@YY_Sima Qian:
From my perch in the USA, China looks totally awesome and super well governed.
I just don’t see the USA recovering its international standing after today.
L85NJGT
Chuck Todd being very, very, careful in his word choice in regards to McConnell, keeps glancing off camera, I think the shits going down.
LeftCoastYankee
@Mary G:
I’m guessing it’s really for the Fox audience for why they’re not going to fight after Arizona, but oy… he’s excruciating.
zhena gogolia
@jonas:
Very well put!
Keith P.
Loeffler’s up to speak now. This should be a fun one
EDIT: And she pulls her objection because of the riots.
raven
Et Tu Kelly???
Another Scott
5 minutes to Loeffler. Says she was going to object, but because of the insurrection she no longer can…
However, …
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Mary G
Anybody that thought the insurrection would deter the Republican’s crazy caucus was wrong:
LeftCoastYankee
Bennet’s on fire, but my wonky brain keeps thinking “Venice was a Republic…”
TS (the original)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Never give the GOP an out for their responsibility in this issue. This is not social media, this is not even the MSM – it is ALL on the President* of the USA and his GOP sycophants.
The US SOS has been running around accusing other countries of not having a democracy, having voting issues, telling the UN & its agencies what they are doing wrong, and here you have the storming of the capitol and the worst outcome in a pandemic of any country in the world. NEVER excuse the GOP from what they have done.
zhena gogolia
@gene108:
You’re kidding, right? About China? I hope so.
Brachiator
@gene108:
What?
From BBC News
More than 50 of Hong Kong’s most prominent pro-democracy activists and politicians have been arrested in the biggest crackdown since China imposed a draconian security law last year.
About 1,000 police took part in morning raids on 72 premises across the city.
Those held helped run an unofficial “primary” to pick opposition candidates ahead of postponed 2020 elections.
They are accused of trying to “overthrow” the government. Activists say the new law aims to quash dissent.
L85NJGT
@Keith P.:
Sounds like the kid who got caught having a kegger.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
big if true, etc
the story being out there brings him closer to the that Elvis-on-the-toilet moment, so let us pray
Another Scott
Kaine, then Booker. 2.5 minutes each?
Cheers,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What constitutes an “actual member of the Cabinet” these days? Are there any left?
raven
pfft
Emma from FL
@gene108: I dare you to repeat that in front of one of the many ethnic minorities getting murdered daily.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Speaking of, do you think Trump actually believes what he is saying or is he pulling that “three lies and it becomes a truth” bullshit from Art of the Deal? I thought the latter, but I watched a video from Beau of the Fifth Column which argued Trump truly believes what he says.
Immanentize
Republicans:
Oh, I love, my pretty little flower.
Linky
Ken
IIUC the Senate doesn’t have a choice, and once the articles of impeachment are delivered they can’t do any other business until that’s resolved.
Subsole
@Kent: If anything, the cohorts generally saw murdering your boss as a salutary lesson for future employers…
WaterGirl
@The Thin Black Duke: We’re with you.
Martin
@Geoduck: I agree. The House should still vote on articles, even if the Senate won’t remove him.
But the GOP is just giving us lip service here. Romney so far is the only one that is willing to stand up even a little bit.
Mary G
Kaine always reminds me of that high school history teacher who thinks he’s funny.
Immanentize
@raven: Kelly — and her extensions!!
Matt McIrvin
@debbie: The person he can most easily convince through repetition is himself.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie: I think he starts out desperately demagoguing and wind up as his own first mark. Then who knows how many different kinds of bugs are hopping around in the folds of gray blubber inside his head
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: probably Jared
Anya
Loeffler took the easy way out. But she didn’t preserve her dignity or her soul. She sold her soul for nothing. Fuck her.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Brachiator:
The “aMeRiCa BaD!” attitude sometimes gets out of hand
Winston
Wow, talk about a backfire.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I nominate Corey Booker as the Senate avatar for the Democratic Party.
Which GOPer shall he fight? Cruz?
Immanentize
@Ken: You are correct! And, if impeached, Trump cannot pardon anyone. But — he can still order a nuclear strike!
Upsides, downsides.
Catatonia
This is a hell of a speech by Booker.
Another Scott
@Mary G: His earnestness is sincere and genuine. He walks the talk.
Cheers,
Scott.
TS (the original)
Cory Booker got NFLTG
Anya
@LeftCoastYankee: ha! Same.
Ruckus
@M31:
How about we get an elephant to stand on his nuts? Isn’t the elephant the symbol of what once was the republican party, which has a huge decision to make, come back to the rule of law or disband as a political entity. They elected this shithead, it’s their party that allowed this shit to happen, the death of the woman shot in the capital building is on them. All of them. This is not a sub group insurrection, this is a political party at a juncture of two roads, 1 is grow the fuck up and do the right thing, the 25th, 2 is disband as a political party – grow the fuck up and do something right for once.
Mel
@Jerzy Russian: Or during all three, and then maybe a few times afterwards. With hobnailed boots.
Subsole
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Yeah. I am far, far away from defund-the-cops, but fuck paying for this…
Totally agree on the cops. Even if that were true, it still boils down to bubble-wrap-life for the violent conservatives, hobnailed jackboot for the priests and disabled.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
oh, Lil Benji Sassè!
Captain C
Corey Booker was pissed!
WaterGirl
@Anya: Loeffler never had a soul to sell. She is a vile creature and I am ecstatic knowing that she will no longer hold public office.
Anya
Booker took us to church.
bluehill
@Another Scott: Faux insurrection won’t affect the stock market, but actually overthrowing the government will, so I can no longer support this … at least not until after the market reopens tomorrow.
Immanentize
@Captain C: impossible. Pissed is not in Booker’s repertoire!
debbie
@Anya:
I guess PBS is only showing highlights. I haven’t heard Loeffler or Kaine. Bummer.
Another Scott
[petty]Sasse’s teeth are far, far too white.[/petty]
Cheers,
Scott.
Captain C
And I think Sasse got baked before his speech.
Just Some Fuckhead
Looks like the “collegial” Senate has a gentlemen’s agreement to not pin today’s failed coup on Republicans. Trump’s getting some blame, none for Republicans.
BethanyAnne
from an eyewitness to the woman being shot tonight.
https://youtu.be/ip1DsbDjbO0
raven
@Immanentize: He was a tight end at Stanford, he knows what time it is.
Subsole
@Just Some Fuckhead: Small-headed, small-hearted, piss-legged selfish little fucks.
Anya
@WaterGirl: I just wish her and her awful husband suffer some consequences. I know it won’t happen, but she should be shunned by polite society.
PJ
@Just Some Fuckhead: Get the election certified and then go after the S.O.B.s.
Immanentize
@Another Scott: like Ross on Friends white? (Not watching)
TS (the original)
GOP Senators trying to pretend they had nothing to do with this while making jokes about what they have done.
All suddenly found there is a constitution that should be followed at these times.
WaterGirl
Can someone share a link? The one I had isn’t working.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@TS (the original):
Granted, but the globalization of Qanon and the anti-vaxxer movement, for example, is squarely on the shoulders of social media and the internet; or rather the lack of regulation of the internet is responsible.
Right-wing nationalist parties like AfD, the Swedish Democrats, etc, are serious threats that need to be dealt with
ETA: the Russian government is responsible for disinformation campaigns as well
Leto
I missed Booker, so I’m rewinding to watch it. Don’t think I’m missing anything buy skipping Dingdong Sasse.
Immanentize
@raven: True, but mostly Stanford knew it was time to lose another one. But that can piss one off too.
PJ
Sasse is so smarmy. He supported Trump all the way up to the election, and now he acts like he is gonna teach us about American virtue.
Just Some Fuckhead
@TS (the original): This.
Mary G
@Immanentize: Those extensions are cringeworthy. For something that surely cost an arm and a leg they look like they came from the discount beauty store.
I am so happy we won’t have to look at them much longer.
Captain C
@Captain C: “You can’t hate someone who just shoveled your driveway.” Ben is both stoned and very…optimistic.
Anya
This fucker is annoying me. Though he is saying all the right things, I am so not gonna forget his complicity. Fuck Sasse and his fake earnestness.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Leto: Sasse is a lightweight airhead. He sounds like a middle school student giving a book report on a book he didn’t read.
Chetan Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
You left out Russian military intelligence. There is more than enough evidence to pin the blame for a large number of the right-wing movements worldwide, on those fuckers.
Another Scott
@Immanentize: Yup, it’s up there.
Whoever invented the “mute” button deserves all the prizes.
Durbin up now.
Cheers,
Scott.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
Just tuned in again–Sasse talking about beauty?
ABC has been talking heads for 40 minutes, then George says they’re going to the floor for Sasse–why? Fortunately they had a “problem” with the feed, and now another talking head.
raven
@Immanentize: Anyone who played D-1 is no slouch.
Immanentize
@Mary G: someone suggested they were 20k extensions. But they look like they were weaved in by “Hairs Karen!” The local Medford beauty shoppe.
Subsole
@YY_Sima Qian: And for this to happen while China is sweeping up dissidents in HK…
I am going cross-eyed with anger.
Keith P.
@TS (the original): Kind of like Bill Cosby lecturing young black men to not act like criminals.
Baud
Sasse seems like a teenager speaking.
Jeffro
@Captain C: nah, he’s always like that…
Baud
Does anyone know what the House us doing?
Spanky
Not watching, so I’ll guess it’s a fundraising week. Are they interrupting their fundraising Doowop concert for this? Someone must think it’s serious.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: Reuters live on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQcga1IvyRM
Cheers,
Scott.
Feathers
I don’t have cable, just over the air and ABC is still live with the broadcast of this. I’ve been pausing and fast forwarding, can’t really deal with the live blather. At one point some R congressman (OK?) saying that today’s protest weren’t about the electoral college, but what we’ve seen with an-teee-fa and the cars and buildings burning. Crazytoons! Chryon says “protestors” so fuck this bullshit.
waratah
@Leto: I liked that he threw in a dig about fund raising on this which is what Ted Cruz did.
TS (the original)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Nothing “has to be dealt with” by the US until it has resolved its own problems – as other countries have to do. The US is no longer the world leader in democracy – trump is 100% NOT the leader of the free world, and Biden will not have that position either.
Maybe in the future, there will have been a part resumption of the position of the USA in world affairs. Until US lawmakers release/acknowledge what trump & the GOP have done to the country & the world this will not happen.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: Thank you! I tried half a dozen but none would let me start at the beginning.
Leto
@Just Some Fuckhead: LINCOLN VALLEY HIGH RULES!!!!
Just Some Fuckhead
Too many of these fucks are talking about shit that happened 50, 150, 2000 years ago instead of what happened today.
Immanentize
@raven: I respect that. But Booker’s thing is “understanding” and “concerned.” His angry thing never rings true to me.
raven
@Immanentize: got it
Evil_Paul
Don’t know if anyone else has asked this yet…do we know who the commander of the National Guard Forces is?
Is he someone reliable (as in, takes his oath to the Constitution seriously) or is he some kind of flunky.
Because they just created a crisis that has given them the perfect excuse to move troops into the Capital.
Who’s commanding the troops?
jl
No way to keep up with comments, so apologies if already posted, but rumors of 25th going down, and Pence has inserted himself into chain of command, people down and cool with that.
JUST IN: “This is not news we deliver lightly,”
“@margbrennan says as she reports: Trump Cabinet secretaries are discussing invoking the 25th Amendment to remove President Trump. Nothing formal yet presented to VP Pence. “I’m talking about actual members of the Cabinet,” she says”
https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1346993660718698496
and see related @joshtm tweets.
Edit: though not sure what Brennan means by ‘actual members of the Cabinet’? Sources are ‘actual members of the Cabinet,’ or people in the administration decided having fake members of the Cabinet do it wouldn’t be good enough?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Immanentize: Yeah, Booker’s always seemed like a total fraud to me.
Subsole
@gene108: Yep. Just ask the Uighurs. They all look super fuckin’ grateful for the benevolent, civilizing touch of the Han…
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Who is this Kansas dipshit?
raven
@Evil_Paul:
lamh36
…
Baud
I liked Durbin’s speech.
debbie
@Spanky:
Nope.
MagdaInBlack
@Mary G: I’m going to be petty and shallow and say every time I look at her I think of Marty Feldman.
Ksmiami
@gene108: Agreed- we are a failed state. It may be past time to seriously consider a break up
Leto
I’m glad we’re getting to cycle through the Senate R backbench of doughy white middle aged men. I mean, they look like they could be running any Jiffy Lube but Senate office holder will also do…
Subsole
@Anya: Nope. No thanks.
Not even with someone else’s strap-on.
L85NJGT
Nancy is up.
Anya
I am so glad Rachel interrupted the bland gynaecologist. When is this going to be over.
cain
@Just Some Fuckhead:
He’s scared shitless.
Old School
NBC/NYT say Trump ordered the National Guard in, so I guess that’s one less thing to worry about.
Immanentize
My friends, I’m out and I’ll see you in the morning thread. Before I go, I just must say:
?? Peace Out!
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
@Brachiator:
I know a lot of what I perceive as China having its shit together is because they do not allow for any bad news to be publicized. They very terrible regarding religious freedom, and political expression.
But they got COVID under control, their economy steadily grows, and their citizens have experienced exponential increase in wealth and standard of living in the last 40 years.
The U.S. just experienced its first coup to invalidate the peaceful transfer of power, has had two awful Republican presidents in the last 20 years that incalculably hurt our international reputation, and set back our ability to improve the standard of living for most people.
debbie
@BethanyAnne:
Fuck that dipshit.
jl
@lamh36:
” unclear what his next move or action could be ”
That is a very good question. Could Trump be so stupid he hadn’t thought a sick stunt and major historic crime like this through? Oh, well, someone else’s fault, not his. Like Collins, he is deeply disappointed, probably.
Edit: I think unclear is the appropriate world, since all signs are the the biggest money that buys Congress, and their flunkies in Congress, have decided enough is enough. Trump could still stumble into something that would threaten the democracy, but the power tide is moving against him.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@TS (the original):
Watch other countries still treat us that way. Look at all of the congratulations by foreign leaders from early November as evidence of this
My point is that autocracy is a global threat, one that needs to be opposed. We and our allies can help shore each other up and stand together against the likes of Russia and China
Matt McIrvin
@Ksmiami: Breakup of the US just means that the Democrats who are in the least danger from these fucks get to write off the lives of the ones who are in the most danger. Some of whom just delivered us the Senate.
lgerard
You really need to get over to Free Republic to get the true story
It wasn’t a riot since no statues were harmed, and
They were all actually ANTIFA, disguised in trump hats
zhena gogolia
@gene108:
Some of their citizens.
Just Some Fuckhead
Pelosi advancing the total fantasy that today’s events will bring about an epiphany for (unnamed people). And we need to move on
With way too much bullshit religiosity.
Leto
@jl: you mean nobody has put a Luger, with a single bullet, next to him? Very disappointed *furrowed brow
Just Chuck
@lamh36:
So, a day ending in ‘y’ then.
Baud
So now the House is doing the AZ debate?
Immanentize
@Baud: simultaneously
Another Scott
Duckworth just gave a powerful speech. You can tell that this is personal for her.
It will, of course, have no effect on those who put party over country every single time.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
L85NJGT
Rand hiding behind states rights.
Elie
I don’t have a problem hearing what you are saying Adam but what can I do about this? You raise our fear and anxiety but what the hell can we do?
jl
@gene108: Decay of competence at basic public health to the point that threatens national sustainability, morons running the country and driving it into a cartoon tin pot dictatorship, and growing threat to go apeshit and break large parts of the world…. sadly, that does tend to erode global good will.
Leto
@Immanentize: you said you were going to bed, old man; get out!!!! :P
Aziz, light!
Assuming the Capitol is not again breached, I think McConnell will kill any attempt to remove Trump. In the days to follow there will be a lot of speechifying.
Trump is too stupid to understand what a coup is, or the repercussions of his actions. I think his behavior is explained almost entirely by his desperate need to save face. His pathology demands it. He yanks the mob’s chain because they help jack up his fantasy that he didn’t fail.
TS (the original)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
When Australia elected its RW prime Minister – lots of world leaders congratulated him – but Australia is a very small frog in the world pond. All leaders congratulate others on their election. Jacinta Ardern (NZ) has received massive world press in recent times but she, also leads one of the smallest nations in the world. Congratulating country leaders after an election is what world leaders do.
So NO, the US is not seen as it was before trump. Bush II caused a few issues – trump cemented them into place.
Another Scott
Warner up.
Cheers,
Scott.
Anya
I bailed on the whole thing when Nancy Pelosi turned into a church lady.
Elie
Adam is there some way to communicate your view and recommendations to Pelosi and McConnell?
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
ABC Jon Karl talking about the 25th amendment thing. Said a trump ally said it “might not be avoidable” Also mentioned all the acting secretaries. ABC talking head Dan Abrams saying not realistic; it’s for health stuff. Another one not so sure about that; mentions it can be temporary.
Kent
The US is not divided by red and blue states. It is divided by urban and rural areas. Oregon would be as bright red as Idaho if Portland were shrunk to the size of Boise. Atlanta is just as blue of a city as Minneapolis. And rural OR is just as red as rural GA.
PJ
Hoyer is thankfully going after the Republicans (not by name unfortunately) who stirred up the insurrectionists by claiming that Trump was the victim of election fraud.
Cameron
Damn. I’ve been pimping the Old Country for a while on FB, but that was mostly to get people interested. Now I’m thinking of moving there. This is some messed-up shit.
Gravenstone
@lamh36: Let’s start with his, shall we?
jl
@Aziz, light!: ” I think his behavior is explained almost entirely by his desperate need to save face. ”
I think good chance that a big part of it is desperation. Trump and Giuliani may be in much deeper shit than we can imagine. I mean, easy to imagine them being in a dozen kinds of very deep shit, but the details are unknown. Hope we know some of them soon.
Suzanne
@lamh36: If only he was really stewing.
I don’t care who resigns at this point. They don’t get any credit. They all decided to ride this tiger. They don’t get credit for self-preservation…. good judgment is averting the crisis before it’s a crisis, not losing your nerve at the last moment.
Oh, but fuck Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz. LOL.
kindness
Doesn’t take Kreskin to see that MoscowMitch won’t lift a finger to convict a Republican president. Sorry but that isn’t Mitch.
lamh36
“talking” is not “doing”!
actions speak louder tan words
Just Some Fuckhead
@PJ: Slightly.
Kent
Hoyer has no more fucks left to give. I’m watching CNN and they just flipped from the House over to the Senate. I thought this was going to be a joint session but I guess I don’t know what is really going on.
Traitor Josh Hawley is now speaking.
Cameron
@Kent: Or Pennsylvania, with Pittsburgh and Philly at opposite ends and Asswhup Creek in between.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@TS (the original):
What happened here today can happen in Australia, too. We’ve been attacked by a hostile, fascist, foreign power that threatens the current global order
All democracies have common enemies that need to be fought against
Don’t take this the wrong way, but it just seems like you want to single out the US as if the global far-right isn’t a problem affecting multiple countries, because of disinformation campaigns by Russia and other foreign powers
Just Some Fuckhead
Does Josh Hawley get to speak?
jl
@citizen dave (aka mad citizen): Well, good that they are talking about it. I hope as part of the talks, Pence is now informally part of the chain of command.
Did Trump voluntarily leave it to Pence to decide whether to OK National Guard into DC? I doubt that.
Martin
So, what I’m hearing on Twitter is that cabinet members are debating resigning, or staying so they can support a 25th amendment challenge.
It’s a prisoners dilemma. If they resign, Trump appoints someone who won’t remove him. If they stay, but can’t get a majority of the Cabinet, they’re complicit.
Not that I have any sympathy for their plight, but if it seems things are gridlocked, that might be why.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
@Kent: I think technically they are both debating the Arizona objection.
Another Scott
@Just Some Fuckhead: He’s yacking now. I’m not listening to him.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@jl:
Apparently, that’s been corrected. Now saying Trump issued the order.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
@Martin: Where is Alexander Haig when you need him?
Ksmiami
@Matt McIrvin: then the only other choice is to reduce the GOP crazies to ash heaps
TS (the original)
@Just Some Fuckhead: right now – decrying the violence that he helped to start.
gene108
@BethanyAnne:
I really want parrot conservatives with their “if she wasn’t breaking the law, she’d still be alive” bullshit, but I just can’t. It’s terrible when somebody dies a sudden death, with years left to live.
Captain C
Who is this shitbag speaking now?
Martin
@Kent: They go in parallel. Starts with the Senate because it’s faster, then hands off to the House.
The whole thing assumes that the votes will be certified, because that hasn’t been in question since the Civil War.
Benw
FU Hawley
LeftCoastYankee
MSNBC moved from intelligent Hoyer in the house, to the idiot Hawley trying to save his ass.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That means in the wingtards know today was over the line.
Keith P.
Oh, lord….Josh Hawley just said “irregardless”. I can hear my high school English teacher screaming somewhere.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Grrr, Hawley now telling me I didn’t have the right to vote absentee in PA.
Martin
@Captain C: Hawley. The guy who threw gasoline on the fire. He should be expelled.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Another Scott: I was a few minutes back because I was pausing the live stream to scream at the tv.
Yutsano
@Just Some Fuckhead: He’s up right now. And lying his ass off.
Ksmiami
@Cameron: I’m applying for Irish citizenship.
Another Scott
Casey up.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
@Martin: As long as critical mass of principle (what…. did I just type that… ?) or much more likely, rational worry about self-preservation, has driven top decision makers to defy Trump, it’s OK.
They’ll have to explain why they didn’t act, though. I’d just say, ‘Look at what he did today, the ass is clearly insane or having a mental breakdown’. Might not meet the legal or medical definitions, but who cares, nothing about that in the amendment.
L85NJGT
Hawley up. Blue lives matter framing. Staring into the camera. Whining about PA
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
Trump caused the assault on the Capitol. He must be removed. WaPo Editorial Bord
TS (the original)
@Captain C:
Good definition of Hawley, still wants to overturn the election
Yutsano
Casey up now.
lamh36
FUQ Hawley
I was watching Romney behind him with the volume on mute. Romeny shooting lasers out his eyes at ole boy…LOL
https://twitter.com/chrislongview/status/1347005107930603521?s=20
LeftCoastYankee
Short Hawley: I maintain my right to lie my ass off to the Rubes as long as they don’t do the violence.
He’s so done.
Quinerly
Hawley not backing down. Still lying. Still sticking with his objections.
Cameron
@Ksmiami: I don’t have quite enough close relatives for citizenship, but I do qualify for long-term residency in Slovenia. I NEVER thought of baling out before, but who is for us here?
jl
@Baud: ” Apparently, that’s been corrected. Now saying Trump issued the order. ”
Sure, Baud, sure, whatever you say, Baud…
Might be a correction, might be a lie to keep up appearances. Who knows? When’s the last time we heard anyone around Trump tell the truth?
Evil_Paul
@raven: Would he be the guy directly commanding the troops though? (Not trying to be pedantic here, but Pinochet was a Colonel when he made his move.)
Yutsano
OT: is this the fastest we’ve gotten to a TBogg?
Leto
@Another Scott: went back and watched that. Motherfucking fire.
L85NJGT
@lamh36:
Mitt should have tossed a loafer at the back of his head.
dmsilev
No, Rep. McCarthy, the Capitol Police does not deserve any applause tonight.
Baud
Hawley sounded like he was going to object to other states per the original plan.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Rachel reporting a bunch of nobodies resigning or contemplating resigning. Among the non-nobodies said to be considering resigning: Robert O’Brien, NSA, and …. Transportation Secretary Mrs McTurtle (Elaine Chao)
Subsole
@LeftCoastYankee: Seriously. After today, were I a senator, I would be shoving that punk into a locker and padlocking it shut…
Another Scott
Lots of links already there (several tabs).
Cheers,
Scott.
Martin
@Old School: For now I’m going to assume that’s various parts of the machine saying ‘no, no, the machine is working as intended!’ because the only thing worse than Trump not being willing to order in the national guard, is admitting that the machinations of the federal government isn’t working.
debbie
Can’t embed tweets on my iPad, but this from @real dick nixon:
Just One More Canuck
Josh Hawley is an appalling human being, and complicit in what happened today. David Gregory (I think) just shredded him on CNN
jl
What is driving these traitorous nutcases like Hawley? They still think the big lift is getting past the Trump nutsters in the primary and then their GOPness will make the general a snap? That theory of getting elected took a big hit yesterday, and the crimes of today will put a bigger dent in the idea.
Edit: and Trump in exile will get testy and have a tantrum some day and lash out at his traitorous allies in Congress who couldn’t get it done. It will be their fault. They should just kiss it goodbye and go to ground for a while.
Brachiator
@Martin:
So, the presidency is oscillating between Lost Cause 2.0 and Hitler in His Bunker 2.0.
Wow.
Guy Fawkes wept.
dmsilev
@Yutsano: Probably. Hell of thing to talk about.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ll confess, I’m interested to hear what Romney has to say
ETA: calls his colleagues “people of integrity”, forgets to specify none are in his party
ETA, A: Okay, now he’s swinging at trump, Hawley and Cruz, if giving too much credit to Lankford, Loeffler, etc
Yutsano
TIL: Willard has 25 grandchildren.
sdhays
@Feathers: Listening to the WP live coverage earlier today, I was struck with a disturbing thought as they discussed how “at least” there was no antifa counter protest which could have stoked violence outside and away from the Capitol. My sudden realization was that if antifa HAD shown up, the Capitol would have been safe today.
If antifa had been there, they would have distracted the Loud Boys, but also the Capitol Police would have girded themselves for war the way they should have today. Today essentially proved, without any doubt, the necessity of antifa.
Subsole
@Cameron: Do bear in mind the overwhelming bulk of the populace voted against these people.
And if the normies are anything like me, the GOP is finished. They can do the right thing and maybe save the party, or ride it all the way into electoral oblivion.
Even the most apathetic soul can understand “they tore down our flag and put a Trump flag in its place…”
Another Scott
Rmoney up. “Insurrection” “Complicit in an unprecedented attack on our democracy…”
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Just One More Canuck: Not often do I agree with David Gregory, but sure did tonight.
Benw
Anyone resigning today is not a fucking good person. They are already complicit.
Here’s Joy! And she just slayed Hawley.
Fuuuuuuuuck you Romney
Gravenstone
@Martin: Be appropriate if it’s learned he had one of his staffers open the normally locked side door Adam referred to in the OP.
PJ
At least Casey ripped Hawley’s bullshit to shreds.
Mary G
Mitt Romney looks like Jimmy Stewart goes to Washington. His hair is even mussed up a bit. He’s got goggle dents on his face like he’s an ER doctor or something. Poser.
Just Some Fuckhead
Romney is killing it.
Yutsano
Annnd TBogg!
EDIT: Almost!
LeftCoastYankee
@Subsole:
Or maybe move his office to the basement behind the boiler room with the Brown Reading Group (obscure “School is Hell”/Matt Groenig reference)
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
Ex Senator Heidi Heitkamp just took a can of whoopass on the “good people on both sides” thing; mentioning the Michigan capital incident as well. Rahm Emannuel mentioned censure; Heitkamp said no, we need something bigger to defend democracy, etc–it’s on congress. (ABC)
L85NJGT
@jl:
Mitt just called him out for putting his own interest above that of the country.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Kent: Supposedly the Insurrectionist wanted to lynch members of congress for insufficient loyalty towards Trump. Presumably Turtle was on the death list.
JPL
@Brachiator: Someone should slide a gun under his bedroom door.
PJ
“Some of my colleagues are coming close to willfully breaking their oaths of office” – Jeanne Shaheen
Captain C
@Martin: At minimum.
Subsole
@jl: Yes. I was worried about people rolling over and hoing hack to sleep after Trump is gone.
I…really don’t know if that happens now. I mean, they stormed the capitol. That’s the kind of turbaned-villain shit that you see in a Michael Bay flick.
Anyone activated is probably going to stay that way now.
jl
@Subsole: Any faction to resorts to violence first takes a huge hit in loss of support from the normies, even if that faction can explain a reason.
And the reason for the Trumpsters is ‘FU, we don’t like losing’. I don’t know how big a hit it will be, but it could be enormous.
Edit: even if that is just 3 or 4 percent of the remaining GOP voters, that is a big problem, as yesterday demonstrated. And, it could be much bigger.
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
The events of today really got to me.
Plus four years of Trump’s chaos.
I never thought I’d see Americans turn their back on democracy like this. This country really doesn’t have a shared history or culture, but we generally unite over basic ideas like the peaceful transfer of power.
If that goes out the window, what’s holding this country together?
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
The events of today really got to me.
Plus four years of Trump’s chaos.
I never thought I’d see Americans turn their back on democracy like this. This country really doesn’t have a shared history or culture, but we generally unite over basic ideas like the peaceful transfer of power.
If that goes out the window, what’s holding this country together?
Mary G
@Another Scott: She was caught in a tunnel on her way to the Senate when they broke in. Wheelchairs, unless you’re training for the Paralympic Games, are designed to move very slowly. She had to be scared, but the Capitol Police got her to safety.
raven
@Mary G: Tammy scared, hell no.
Cameron
@Subsole: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the Nazis never got more than 1/3 of the vote in any German election. Didn’t seem to stand in their way. Yeah, the rodents are not the majority, but I’m not sure they have to be.
LeftCoastYankee
@JPL:
He’d probably shoot his phone since his social media isn’t working anymore.
Baud
@raven:
I know, right? Police probably had to hold her back.
debbie
@debbie:
P.S. I hope your mother grounds you, jackass.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@gene108:
I was a few thousand extremists. Don’t overstate their numbers
Benw
@Yutsano: lol TBogg unit achieved!
Sister Golden Bear
@gene108: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Baud
@Cameron:
Different system, and the other, smaller parties rolled over.
Leto
@raven: wouldn’t say scared, but she was concerned. She said that earlier. But I’m sure she still would’ve beat a poseurs ass if they got near her.
Cameron
@L85NJGT: Well, Willard is actually the son of one of the last Republican Good Guys.
Yutsano
Hoo boy here comes some Rob Portman!
Subsole
@jl: Yep.
Thank god our people stayed away today.
Another Scott
@Mary G: No, it wasn’t that at all. She almost broke down when she talked about not having a Blackhawk to give to protect the Constitution today…
She lost (much of) her legs when her helicopter was attacked in Iraq. She knows people who gave their lives. This is deadly serious to her – and rightfully so. She must be furious with her “colleagues” who fan the flames of chaos and give lip service to patriotism.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Leto: I’ll buy concerned.
The House is going to drive on with the bullshit.
Just Some Fuckhead
Anyone know where I can watch the floor speeches live? Rachel Maddow and the CNN talking heads won’t stop running their fucking mouths.
Cameron
@Baud: True. Nach Hitler uns has its own parallels today.
Yutsano
@Just Some Fuckhead: I’m watching on C-Span.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie: according to Joyce Vance, crossing state lines to commit a crime is prosecute-able (if you’ll allow it) in your home state, and several US Attys are promising to follow through
Subsole
@raven: Ayep. From what I have seen of that woman, those fuckers are very, very lucky the cops got her out of there before they got to her…
Wyatt Salamanca
This @itvnews report shows some shocking scenes from inside the Capitol – haven’t seen this footage on any American news network
h/t https://twitter.com/BeyondBlunt/status/1346973965701402626
Cops are taking selfies with the terrorists.
h/t https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Romney looks like he is about to beat Hawley to death with a lead pipe. My god, there is an actual human soul inside the Mittbot with the same passions as the rest of us!
debbie
@Yutsano:
He’s muted on PBS. Probably for the best.
Another Scott
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Reuters on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQcga1IvyRM
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chetan Murthy
@Cameron:
Hitler staged a series of referenda after he was made Chancellor. Her’es one where he got 89%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_German_referendum#Results
The Nazis did conduct careful public opinion research, and IIRC enjoyed decent support among their (Good German, Aryan) base. For sure, those outside the base were …. well, we know they pioneered their murders on their own population.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Good start.
jl
@Subsole:
” Thank god our people stayed away today. ”
Antifa and black bloc (though I wouldn’t call them on my side), have developed the tactic of not showing up after tricking the Trumpsters to turn out at a demonstration that does not exist and look for a fight. Thereby making the Trumpsters look ridiculous and pissed off local community.
There is not dumb, dumb, dumber and dumbest. And then the Trumpsters but the nomenclature needs to catch up with new discoveries and facts.
Edit: some of the more sophisticated anti-Trump forces have learned how to hang back and let the other side hurt its own self when that is the best thing to do.
Another Scott
New thread upstairs.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Just Some Fuckhead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQcga1IvyRM
Geminid
@Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!): The Kansas City Star editorial board said that Hawley has “blood on his hands.”
Just Some Fuckhead
@Yutsano: I have Hulu. No c-span.
sab
@Yutsano: What did Portman say?
Chris Johnson
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Yeah NO. For the time being, deranged right wingers are the ONLY violent murderous terrorists on our streets.
Please to be keeping it that way. Even cops will get involved when, inevitably, the deranged right wingers will flip out and attack them too.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Another Scott: Thanks.
mac8
If Portman said anything of substance I will be shocked.
I left a message on Portman’s answering machine earlier telling him what happened today was at least partially his fault because he and the others who claim to be moderates of the party could have stood up to Trump at any point in the last four years. It will fall on deaf ears but it made me feel a bit better.
Subsole
@jl: Yeah. Amazing how not having the cops on your side forces you to develop basic tactical cunning.
The Moar You Know
@lamh36: Wow. If Romney had a knife within arm’s reach I am totally convinced Hawley would be a dead man. That is what a man who is angry enough to kill looks like.
Just Some Fuckhead
@WaterGirl: Thanks.
patrick II
Chris Hayes is outraged that the congressional debate is so normal. They should be outraged. This is normalizing a national emergency.
david
@gene108:
“If that goes out the window, what’s holding this country together?”
$$$$$$$$$$$$
gene108
@Another Scott:
I saw some of seditionists get interviewed and the video posted. They truly believe they were in the right, and that law enforcement should have stood down entirely and let them do whatever, because they are “patriots”.
One woman just barely stepped into the Capitol, but police shot pepper spray and forced people out. She was like, “I only got a step in, and they started attacking us. We’re trying to save the country…blah…blah…blah…
Also, I think the folks who really planned violence took their security a lot more seriously
Frank Wilhoit
@Cameron: It was 100% predictable that this would resurge. It is now a human lifetime since 1945. No one remembers. Storytelling doesn’t even work to preserve collective memory any more, only to incite in the moment. Padraic Colum is very good on this, in a foreword to a collection of Grimm published as long ago as the 1940s. He puts it down to the invention of the light bulb.
laura
Steny Hoyer had planned to adjourn the House until the 19th. Any word that the events of the day may have changed that?
Frank Wilhoit
@david: No; the answer to his question is “nothing”, and that has been the correct answer for 40 years.
Captain C
Lady G is just horrible and craven, and pathetic to boot. He should resign out of shame.
lgerard
Methinks Lindsay has been drinking
Brachiator
@gene108:
We have always presumed the peaceful transfer of power. Took it for granted. So much so that no one was paying attention when Trump said “I don’t know whether I will accept the election results” years ago.
The people have to decide whether they want democracy.
It’s funny how simple it is.
Captain C
@lgerard: If I were him I would be.
Captain C
He sounds like some drunks I’ve heard ramble.
Herman_Newticks
@Leto: thanks. I wasn’t implying consultation was actually providing any authority whatsoever. I was merely characterizing whatever conversation the secdef may have had with VP. That is, IF there really is a delegation for the DC National guard, as described on that page, then all the authority needed was in the acting sec def, so no illegality. Just not sure that delegation is legit…
Another Scott
@gene108: I suspect that there’s: 1) a hard-core of 3% and ProudBoy types who travel the country and work online to rile up others. They think they’re clever and prepared and smart enough to not get caught. 2) Then there are the locals who get wrapped up in the propaganda and playing hero soldier man. 3) And then there are the anarchists who just like breaking and burning stuff.
What matters is getting the first group quickly. (There were some tweets yesterday, laughing about “don’t film me man, you’re doxxing me!!”, so it shouldn’t be too difficult. Especially with this spreadsheet and Bellingcat on the case.) The rest are just usual law-enforcement problems.
Cheers,
Scott.
LeftCoastYankee
Lindsay’s bad dinner theater is over. Finally a vote.
Geminid
@Cameron: Like you say, the Nazi peaked at a little over 33%, even fell off some in the last free election. But there was an impasse in the Reichstag over a new premier, and by bribing President Hindenberg’s son the Nazi’s secured Hindenberg’s choice of Hitler as premier. (Hindenberger was growing senile). That’s all Hitler needed. He made his henchman Goering chief of police for Brandenburg state, including Berlin. Then through violence, intimidation, and deceit, the Nazis achieved total power in a about a year.
Mel
@MagdaInBlack: She’s a grimace mouthed, freeze-dried, ghastly, soulless, hate- spewing Zombie Barbie. With the WORST extensions, indeed.
gene108
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
It’s not just the seditionists who think Trump won. From a December 11, 2020 survey by Northeastern, Northwestern, Harvard, and Rutgers.
The people in D.C. were just able to get the day off.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/12/11/who-won-the-2020-presidential-election-joe-biden-or-donald-trump-depends-whom-you-ask/
Cameron
@Geminid: Yes, and we seem more than willing to let history repeat itself, neither as tragedy nor farce.
Leto
@Herman_Newticks:
That’s not correct. For the DC National Guard, the final authority on who can mobilize them is POTUS. Not the SECDEF, not GEN Milley, not VP. Only POTUS. So Adam’s point still stands:
Wyatt Salamanca
@patrick II:
I agree with Hayes 100%. Trump sank to a new low today by inciting a riot that put the lives of members of Congress and their staffs at risk. And yet, these Republican assholes are perfectly content with this raving lunatic remaining in the White House until Jan 20th. This maniac needs to be removed from office before he can stir more riots by his batshit crazy followers.
Kattails
@gene108: if you hop over to Stonekettle’s twitter feed there are nice selfies and photos of guys with envelopes stolen from Pelosi’s desk, and naming the guy who made off with the podium.
Now I see someone else to call–my governor. Anyone from this state who can be identified should be prosecuted.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@gene108:
TBF, I recall something like half of Republicans in like 2008 and 2012 thinking Obama had cheated back then too
jonas
“A republic…if you can keep it.”
Subsole
@patrick II: Wasn’t Chris telling people that Trump was gonna be to Hillary’s left back in 2016?
Herman_Newticks
@Leto: I don’t dispute at all that the president has the final authority for that Unit. I’m asking (legitimately, b/c trying to learn) what the delegation from the president to the SecDef to activate that unit amounts to. If the delegation does not authorize the Secretary to deploy the unit, then what does it do? Inconveniently, I can’t find the damned thing to read it. I only have the stupid “about” page language…
scav
Should we spare a quick thought for the sheer timing magnificence of Comey’s Thou Shalt Not Prosecute Trump! commandment this am?
Herman_Newticks
@Herman_Newticks: https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/11485.html
YY_Sima Qian
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
As far as I know, AfD has not yet subverted the democratic institutions in Germany. The rising power of the right-wing extremism is concerning, but is also a consequence of the manifest failure of new-liberal economic. The institutions remain strong, and do not appear to be under the kind of assault seen in the US by the GOP for the past 3 decades.
Neo-Nazis burrowed in the military and police force (especially the SpOps units), however, is scary.
Dopey-o
Oh, just effing give it up! Jan 6 has been known as The Epiphany for centuries.
Nancy lightly knocked on a cultural touchstone. Anyone taught by nuns, or even exposed to Dana Carvey knows the difference between a deft reference and a full-throated raging Dominionist.
The history of western civilization is the history of Xtianity. Like it or lump it, it brought us to where we are today.
debbie
@Dopey-o:
Agreed, a very petty reason to bail.
Kenneth Krasity
I don’t think the OP’s characterization of the activation Order is accurate. The activation power has been delegated to the Secretary of Defense and Army, and they were part of the order process.
Per the DCNG website: ‘ the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States. This authority to activate the D.C. National Guard has been delegated, by the President, to the Secretary of Defense and further delegated to the Secretary of the Army. The D.C. National Guard is the only National Guard unit, out of all of the 54 states and territories, which reports only to the President. ‘
Per acting DOD Secretary Miller: ‘”Chairman Milley and I just spoke separately with the Vice President and with Speaker Pelosi, Leader McConnell, Senator Schumer and Representative Hoyer about the situation at the U.S. Capitol. We have fully activated the D.C. National Guard to assist federal and local law enforcement.’