NEWS: Richard Barnett, who was seen sitting at a desk in Speaker Pelosi’s office, has been arrested in Arkansas and charged with entering and remaining on restricting grounds, violent entry, and theft of public property — NBC's Pete Williams reports.
— Geoff Bennett (@GeoffRBennett) January 8, 2021
Here’s a Lawfare article on possible crimes these yahoos committed. Google tells me that theft of public property is a max 10 years sentence or $250K fine. Entering and remaining on public grounds has a 10 year sentence if it involved carrying a firearm or significant bodily injury (probably arguable, right?) or 1 year if not. And I’m sure this is just the beginning of the charges for this guy.
Cue the wailing and crying about him actually being a good guy. I was skeptical that these assholes would get serious punishment, but I have some hope, now that I see the laundry list of crimes they committed.
Chain of Command
Served
Every single one of these cletuses needs to be locked up for a long time.
OT: Reuters reporting impeachment to move forward in House on Monday
Alison Rose
Good. Fuck these pieces of shit for supporting their Orange Demon. I just found out my great-uncle died last night from COVID and I’m enraged all over again (not that I ever stopped being so) about Trump’s horrifying volitional mismanagement of the pandemic. Blood is on his tiny hands, as well as the hands of every single fuckface who was in that mob.
Ken
The right-wing is still wavering on how to respond. If they lump for “they were really Antifa” they may throw him under the bus. Or, factions may develop (“He’s antifa!” “He’s a patriot!”), with an opportunity for infighting, popcorn, and rooting for injuries.
Baud
Good.
Jerry
I’m worried about all charges for everyone being quietly dropped in a few years like what happened with all those guys that did the Malheur Refuge takeover
Just Some Fuckhead
We just need to understand these folks better.
Baud
@Jerry:
They were acquitted.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Alison Rose: Yes, WTF is wrong with these fools they want to destroy the country over that useless sack of shitTrump? Trump incompancy has resulted in the biggest natural disaster in modern American history and we got to put up with these buffoons.
Mike in NC
This tweet from George Conway is worth pondering:
“Anyone who thinks @realDonaldTrump is chastened by what happened yesterday misunderstands the mind of a narcissistic psychopath. Driven by narcissistic rage, unrestrained by conscience, compelled by sadistic impulse, he may lash out at any time in increasingly destructive ways.”
I hate that we have to wait a few more days for the next impeachment, but the odds are growing that a few Republicans will suddenly, finally grow a conscience themselves.
Llelldorin
@Jerry:
I’m hoping the Biden administration will come down harder on this than the Trump administration did on the Malheur Refuge folks. In particular, there’s no need to prove conspiracy for the current charges, just that they were in places they shouldn’t be. Since these geniuses were happily livestreaming most of the time, that shouldn’t be hard.
BR
Everyone needs to be calling their Reps demanding immediate impeachment, no more dithering. If this drags out, there could be blanket pardons for these rioters and there is no state in DC so no state offenses can be charged against guys like this.
germy
So does Barnett go on the pardon list?
Mart
@Baud: By a jury of their Q-Anon peers, damn that Federal Govment.
BR
Actually, can we get a phone bank thread to call Reps / Senators for immediate (today) impeachment?
evap
@germy: Can you pardon someone before they are convicted of a crime? I doubt these people will be convicted in the next 15 days.
germy
Baud
@germy: Only if Trump thinks there’s a benefit to himself.
germy
RaflW
Bad
Jim, Foolish Literalist
am I too late to place a bet on outstanding warrants, probation and/or child support orders?
at least one DUI
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
I’m gonna guess that a DC jury will go a little harder on these guys than a Oregon jury (Malheur).
Also, I’m fine with plea bargains for people facing 30 year sentences. It’s a lot of leverage. The Bundys had a bit more cohesiveness than I’m guessing these folks will have, since I think there a bunch of randos who happened to get into the Capitol at the same time.
MisterForkbeard
@Served: Good. Glad to hear it, AND that these assholes are getting the appropriate charges.
Maybe our own people can focus on the fact that we’re getting more impeachment while we continue to push for resignation or the 25th. Things seem to be respondingly appropriately.
germy
So they seized some powerpoint. Serves them right.
Dorothy A. Winsor
That guy stole a piece of mail from Pelosi’s office and held it up to the camera once he was out. That’s got to be good for some crimey thing
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@RaflW: There’s nothing worse for your character than being the 50th vote in the Senate. It completely corrupts those people.
Or maybe it’s just posturing:
MisterForkbeard
@RaflW: Bad of Manchin. I don’t expect it to hold up, though.
Biden can put a lot of pressure on him. Or give him something, face-saving or real. Or we can rely on the handful of Republican Senators who wanted to give a check too, not that I think that’ll succeed.
Baud
@germy:
That seems like cruel and unusual punishment.
trollhattan
Under what jurisdiction will these yahoos be tried?
Elizabelle
@RaflW: Another possibility there is that there are enough GOP senators who might spring a vote for the $2K that Manchin can afford to do that.
trollhattan
@germy:
They should be sentenced to sit through all the presentations contained therein.
Mart
@germy: Top of the hour AP radio news – flags are at half mast after a capitol police officer died from injuries on Wednesday-. I guess words like murdered or bashed to death with a fire extinguisher are too harsh during these troubled times.
Llelldorin
@Elizabelle: That would be a welcome return to normal politics, honestly. Senate votes didn’t used to be strict party-line affairs; party discipline in the Senate used to be terrible. (The definition of the Senate that I grew up with was “100 people who are convinced that in a sane universe they’d be the President.”)
patrick II
@Jerry:
I don’t think the Biden justice department will be in a “look forward” mood.
I don’t know what state or federal laws are applicable to the various state house breaches we saw across the country, but I would say given the obvious coordination there are at least federal conspiracy charges available for some.
Of course I don’t know how hard the Bill Barr FBI was looking at this in light of the Antifa “threat”, so I hope they are able to trace all of the social media conspiracy, or backups, before they are gone.
MisterForkbeard
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: And there we are. Imho Manchin WILL vote for it, but he’s asking for a public case and wants Coronavirus/Vaccine efforts put in front of it.
Lots of wiggleroom there. We’ll get it done.
randy khan
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
I am pretty confident that Biden would accept a deal that bundled vaccine distribution funding with checks for the people.
Kelly
So Manchin can only process one small issue at a time. Seems a bit limiting for a member of the “World’s Greatest Deliberative Body”
randy khan
I’m glad to see that they’re starting to arrest more people, if not surprised. So many of these insurrectionists are proud of what they did – and bragging about it! – that they won’t be hard to find.
germy
Barbara
@Jerry: A lot will be pleaded downward because that’s how federal prosecution works, mostly to avoid jury trials. I would be surprised if they didn’t trade and bargain based on the willingness to provide information on specific incidents — e.g., theft of property and especially, the injuries that caused the death of Officer Sicknick. I hope they bring the higher profile ones back to DC for trial if they decide to throw the dice. Juries in DC include people who might not be so sympathetic — not just African Americans but a high concentration of government workers and lawyers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: I did see Greenwald, I think retweeted by some Federalist writer, hinting that this is a false flag (I think is the term) designed to give Biden domestic spying powers.
Alison Rose
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I know right? I keep thinking……for THIS GUY?????
Just Some Fuckhead
@trollhattan: US attorneys prosecute in the insurrectionists’ home districts.
germy
@trollhattan:
Including the two hour microsoft update.
patrick II
@Ken:
When my two children were three and two they went to my mother’s house near Chicago for a couple of weeks to build bonds with their slightly younger cousin, Vincent. Vincent did not yet speak very well, so every time something went wrong my two kids would blame Vincent.
They came home and one day I heard a lamp fall over. I rushed in to see what happened — the lamp was on the floor.
Who did this?
My two (in unison): Vincent did it.
Vincent was back home in Milwaukee about a thousand miles away.
That’s how I feel about these guys yelling “Antifa”!
Barbara
@germy: Door number 2. Like, it’s WV and I would expect nothing less.
Cacti
Seditious conspiracy carries a 20 year sentence.
Insurrection is 10 years.
Since they’re separate offenses, they can and should be charged with both.
Subsole
@RaflW: Nah.
The way it works is Manchin says “no, unless…”. Then we give him the unless. Then he votes yes on the checks.
Just horse-trading.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Barnett is now claiming he was pushed in the Speaker’s Office and merely looking for a bathroom.
Barbara
@Just Some Fuckhead: Yes, the USAs can only prosecute in the home district, but individuals can be moved to DC for prosecution. The criminal acts occurred in the District on federal property, so I imagine they cold be prosecuted in any federal district. But evidence and witnesses are in DC, so if they go to trial, there is a much greater chance the prosecution will be handled in or around DC.
Cacti
Glenn Greenwald sides with a white nationalist attack on the US Congress?
This is my shocked face.
I saw Matt Taibbi was “both sides”-ing it today too.
hueyplong
We’re going to live two lifetimes in the 2 weeks before this Manchin stuff matters.
germy
@Baud:
I wonder if there’s some sort of location tracker on the device. I don’t know how this stuff works.
Just Some Fuckhead
@patrick II: I always wonder if they actually believe that Antifa nonsense or if they just say it to muddy the waters. I guess it doesn’t really matter but I do wonder.
Delk
Lock him up!
germy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
He had his foot up on her desk. And he left her a note.
Lock him up, as the saying goes.
Subsole
@Kelly:
He’s making an ask. That’s the cover.
Next two years gonna be gooooood for West by God Virginia.
germy
@Cacti:
Isn’t siding with white nationalists his origin story?
Gravenstone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: And he mistook her chair for the toilet? And always takes a shit with his feet propped up…
trollhattan
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Thanks.
TaMara (HFG)
@Just Some Fuckhead: Have I mentioned how happy I am to see you in the comments again?
NotMax
Some could conceivably be brought up on RICO charges as well, I suspect.
B-J legal team: yea or nay?
germy
GOP Sen. Ben Sasse Says Trump Was ‘Delighted’ Watching the Violent Capitol Mob: ‘He Wanted There to be Chaos’
I suspected as much. When he gave his first little pre-recorded speech, his expression was one of barely contained glee.
Just Some Fuckhead
@TaMara (HFG): That’s two of you for, infinity against. :)
VeniceRiley
I hope they work around Manchin, or he’ll think he’s president and do this on everything.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
@BR: I sent my impeachment support tweet to my reps Wed. afternoon.
A weird thought, but given the things one can bet on (like in London), I wonder if there are people who bet on trump not finishing his term going “come on, dammit!”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cacti:
yeah but remember the vampire squid thing? that was awesome
MisterForkbeard
@TaMara (HFG): He’s a real credit to the name. :)
All joking aside, completely agree with you.
trollhattan
@germy:
Realized after writing it that the sentence would probably be thrown out on appeal under the doctrine of cruel and
unusuatoo-common punishment.NotMax
@Subsole
One thing Manchin knows by heart is which side his pork is buttered on.
;)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Gravenstone: it sounds like Barnett knows he’s found the toilet and he is deep in the shit.
There is a video of Trump and his spawn partying while they watch the riot. I wonder how these Vanilla ISIS members will like that as they dealing with Federal charges. How does it feel being an expendable pawn Barnett?
Leto
@germy: if it’s setup like military computers (maybe?), it won’t work if you just plug it into a regular internet connection. It’s configured for a specific network and won’t operate outside of that network. BUT I don’t know if that’s the case here!
trollhattan
@Subsole:
“The COVID-19 Vaccine and Relief and Clean Coal Act of 2021”
germy
“I don’t have any idea what was in his heart about what he wanted to happen once they were in the Capitol, but he wanted there to be chaos,” he said, later adding, “As this was unfolding on television, Donald Trump was walking around the White House confused about why other people on his team weren’t as excited as he was as you had rioters pushing against Capitol Police trying to get into the building …He was delighted.”
Mart
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
After the BLM and others toppled statues of evil men this summer Trump executive ordered:
Unintended consequences?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Leto: You missing the true danger here; a clearly mentally unstable group of people have a computer with power point in their possession.
God help us all.
Mary G
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry about your great uncle. It was completely heartbreaking to see so many deaths that could have been avoided except for the idiot in chief and his kiss ass VP who chose to ignore the doctors to talk about the president’s amazing leadership.
I think Officer Sicknick’s death has changed a lot of views in right wing circles from citizens justifiably upset to criminal cop killers. And to just read that Twitler’s upset because his televised fans are low class and he doesn’t like low class people has just escalated my rage level back to “throw a voodoo doll of him into a fire and make him walk the streets of DC naked with the nun from Game of Thrones ringing her bell and crying SHAME behind him after banning him from ever golfing again.”
Eunicecycle
If he’s the one who threw the flag down where it is, that is very bad flag etiquette!
Fester Addams
@germy:
Dunno but I expect it to start showing up at (multiple) strip-mall computer shops any day now.
Subsole
@Alison Rose:
It’s not for him.
Who we elect is who we give ourselves permission to be.
He told them that they are perfect the way they are, and acted exactly the way they wish they could. They are the people who think firing folks is badass and would do it every day if they could. And he told them not only are they the only people who matter, but they are the only people who SHOULD matter. Ever.
That’s why they are so fanatical. They have projected their entire selves onto him.
Trump, as a man, actually has almost nothing to do with it. They aren’t fighting for Trump. They’re fighting for the right to be a bunch of useless God-damned heathen assholes. And be praised for it.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Eunicecycle: Yeah, but it can still be turned into redneck-wear.
JoyceH
@randy khan:
It’s interesting to see the internet detectives over on Twitter crowdsourcing identification of the insurrectionists. They’re passing their info on to the FBI and also to the rioters’ employers, so they’ll probably be fired faster than they’re charged.
And I think some of the IDs could turn out to be interesting. Of course, most of the rioters are obviously cosplayers from the 82nd Chairborne, but a few of them, by their gear and their movements, appear to be either current or former members of the military or law enforcement. If we don’t get an Erik Prince connection, I’ll be surprised. And I think we’ll find out that this was a lot more planned and deliberate than we realize.
Cacti
Actually yes.
He was defending the imaginary First Amendment rights of white nationalists to make death threats and solicit the murder of Federal Judges.
Subsole
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Welp, someone’s dick just fell off…
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Alison Rose: and since I am at it; I am sorry to lean of your’ family’s loss.
Fair Economist
Hot Dang!
Just Some Fuckhead
@JoyceH: No, they aren’t cosplayers. They are insurrectionists. I know it’s tempting to reduce them to something non-threatening but imagine yourself as a black legislator in the House when windows and doors are being destroyed around you, gunfire is going off, teargas everywhere.
rikyrah
Subsole
@VeniceRiley: Ehhhh….I imagine you don’t get elected as a Democrat in WV without having a pretty fine sense for exactly how far you can push things.
NotMax
@Leto
There’s a computer repair shop in Delaware which will be more than happy to take a look at it.
//
Steeplejack (phone)
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Debunked:
Subsole
@NotMax: God I wish we had more of that across party lines.
Better bribery than factionalism.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That’s actually a good point. Trump thinks he has them under his control but it’s only a matter of time before they want his blood too.
Gin & Tonic
@Leto: That’s standard practice pretty much everywhere, not just .gov/.mil. If somebody takes a laptop outside my (nominal) work area, it’s pretty much a brick.
JoyceH
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Yeah, I get that. NOW they’re insurrectionists, I’m referring to their ‘origin story’. Like that farmer’s son wasn’t a doughboy until he joined up and went Over There.
rikyrah
JPL
@Just Some Fuckhead: Me too!
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: That’s consistent with the reports of urination.
zhena gogolia
@Mart:
Yeah, disgusting. “died from injuries” as if it were a car accident
germy
@Fair Economist:
These people are deleting their social media accounts as fast as they can.
rikyrah
RIP??????
Just Some Fuckhead
Manchin has four years to worry about being reelected. He could just operate like Doug Jones did. Get done what you can get done while you can do it. No need to offer him preemptive excuses.
Subsole
@Mart: Hell, I am looking forward to these garbage-slugs getting acquainted with Dick Cheney’s Patriotic Panopticon and Funhouse of Freedom…ain’t just for Ay-rabs, boys!!!
germy
Subsole
@Mary G: Why would you subject NYC to a naked Trump?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It’s more like they are LARPers who lost touch with reality. The intent to do serious harm is there, but they seem to think that at some point the GM will say, “ok, game over for today” and all the dead and injured will stand up and head off to the bar with everyone for drinks. Look all the denying they are doing now its sinking in this shit has real consequences for them.
Baud
IsraelTopshelf
It’s fine that they lead with the most obviously recorded/public buffoons, but it has to go much further. The FBI has or can get access to all it needs; security footage, Google/Apple/carrier location data, social media confessions, … if that fails to snag most of the bubbas/bubbettes then how about a go-fund-me for crowd-sourced info rewards?
RSA
@germy:
In government a huge amount of planning is carried out or at least conveyed by Powerpoint, unfortunately.
Also, today I learned (I think, at least by not being able to find anything newer than 2017 indicating otherwise) that in the Senate two-factor authentication isn’t required. (In the part of the DoD I work in, this involves a smart card physically inserted into a government laptop.)
Eunicecycle
@Just Some Fuckhead: or a bikini, or a shirt, etc. My veteran dad would have a stroke.
Gravenstone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I thought the video making the rounds was in the moments prior to Trump whipping up the insurrectionists at the rally, before sending them down the street to do his dirty work? Is there new video from somewhere that is during the time of the actual break in?
Old School
@germy:
West Virginia must be stunned to learn they’ve elected a member of Antifa.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Subsole:
We even have a special prison for terrorists in Cuba! What’s it called? Guacamole? Guantanamera? Something like that.
Just Some Fuckhead
My favorite meme today:
Johnathon Goldman:
“In the end, Trump cost Republicans the Presidency, the Senate, and the House. The son of a bitch actually did it. He made America great again.”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mart: Here’s something I found too
raven
So I missed a few threads but all you armchair quarterbacks bitching and moaning about the Capitol Police on the scene were full of shit.
Fair Economist
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
So is he one of the guys peeing on the walls? Time for some DNA testing.
@Cacti:
Greenwald and Taibbi both “concerned” about federal surveillance of white nationalists? Sounds like Putin left some tracks and is scared.
Baud
@raven: Link to new info?
Cameron
@Subsole: With any luck, you too can win a vacation at sunny Camp X-Ray!
Immanentize
@evap: pre-pardons are complicated and even Nixon got a post-facto pardon. Does a pre-pardon violate the ex post facto laws? Yes, but that is a restriction on Congress. The other thought is that you can pre-pardon for specific crimes. But not for any crime associated with an act. I know that sounds complicated, but imagine this, one of these yahoos trespassed and stole property. The president pardons that person for those crimes/acts but the person also hid a bomb that goes off on January 20th that kills two people. Even though they were pardoned for specific acts/crimes, they would not have a pardon for the subsequent harm/crime.
Obviously a great con law exam question for my students this semester!
Gin & Tonic
@RSA: Two-factor these days most often means a virtual token, in the form of an app on your phone that has the regularly-changing code you need to accompany your password.
LuciaMia
Huzzah!
Just James
imgflip.com/i/4t3cg0
sphouch
Any chance any of these charges could be felonies, and that there could be an additional felony murder charge for the death of Ashli Babbitt?
Immanentize
@RaflW: re: $2000 Biden checks — Biden said he would support them and sign legislation, if it gets through. He also said what he supported was difference ($1400 more). That all gives both sides some room.
WaterGirl
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I think they were partying during the rally Trump spoke at. Whether they were partying during the insurrection remains to be seen, as there is no video of that yet.
Subsole
@zhena gogolia: Same way a latino gets busted for “taking drugs that increased their natural aggression”, but I “suffer from a history of substance abuse”.
Calouste
@germy: I don’t know if the computers in Congress have it, but when I worked at a large tech company a few years back, if your computer was stolen, you would report it and then the next time it connected to the internet it would check its status and wipe itself. And I would assume send over info about the network it connected to, which is enough to find the person having possession.
Subsole
@germy: Really sucks for them that the interwebnet is forever.
RSA
@Gin & Tonic: Yes, and that’s commonly in use in the DoD as well.
Chetan Murthy
I called Sen. Manchin’s office and left some truth-flowers (not bombs): (1) I contributed to his campaign (a lot, as it turns out), (2) I understood and supported his decision to vote with Trump when he did, (3) I’m glad he’s a *Democratic* senator from West Virginia, (4) his WV constituents need that $2k money: this is no time to be worrying about the budget deficit, and (5) I’m from SF, and maybe I shouldn’t care about his constituents, but I do.
I meant every bit of it. Every. Bit.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Gravenstone: I stand corrected.
Fair Economist
@rikyrah: cites
That is horrifying!
NotMax
@Mary G
Oh, permit him golf per The Mikado, on unmown scrub with a twisted club and elliptical golfing balls.
:)
C Stars
@Fair Economist: Yup, I got an insufferable Bernie bro in my FB timeline who’s decided that the seditionist mob is being unfairly treated. Full circle.
Chetan Murthy
OT bleg: Heh, my name, like some of your names, is hard for Americans to pronounce. So I Anglicized it, but it’s -still- hard for Americans to pronounce: go figger, I guess.
Officer Brian Sicknick’s name, I might guess, is hard for Americans to pronounce, too. I would like to learn how to pronounce his name properly, so when I say it (which I will be doing, along with Heather Heyer and Travon, Philando, Eric, Mike Brown, John Crawford, Sandra, George Floyd, and so many others (ugh)) I can say his name right. I feel like it’s important that we do that.
And also, is there anyplace we can donate money for his family, funeral, or any other expenses they might have? Does anybody know a reputable place?
Officer Sicknick died for our democracy, for our rights. I won’t forget his sacrifice.
rikyrah
sphouch
@Immanentize: My con law professor would have loved that hypothetical!
Chetan Murthy
@Calouste:My friends who have worked for/with the government have told me that the one thing the USG does well is I/T security. I wonder if that’s true. Guess we’ll find out now.
[the story involved stuff like client-side certs, encrypted drives, etc.]
raven
@Baud:
irst, At some point Wednesday afternoon, the only thing standing between complete looting, perhaps even burning of the Capitol was a relatively small group of Metro DC Police.
Obviously that’s one officer’s point of view, but it explains a lot of things that have enraged us. It answers why police didn’t arrest everyone: They didn’t have enough officers, and there was still a mob outside and the building doors were open — if they started rounding up this mob they might have outraged that mob and had another invasion on their hands. It explains why there’s some video of officers saying nice things to rioters and assisting them down the stairs: At that point, you say anything to get them out and re-assert control of the building. This was de-escalation 101 because these MAGAts had backpacks full of God knows what, and job one with the resources at hand was to get them the fuck out of the building. I’m not ignoring or downplaying the huge overlay of white privilege, as I wrote yesterday.
JoyceH
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Even better, seen somewhere, was that the Mob finally succeeded in getting one of their own into the White House and as a result, they lost their shell company anonymity through which all their dirty money flows. I imagine they’re mighty unhappy about that…
sab
@Immanentize: I have asked this before. How difficult are pardons to draft? Trumps legal crew these days doesn’t seem to be first rate.
What are the chances that he is signing pardons that don’t actually do the job?
MCA1
@Jerry: [best Steve Buscemi voice] Blood has been shed, Jerry.
trollhattan
@Subsole:
The Macy’s Thanksgiving parade has them accustomed to openly displayed inflated gasbags.
Subsole
@Steeplejack (phone): I thought it was guava.
Though honestly I’d still like gitmo shut down. We have plenty of dungeons here they can go to, all equally nasty, especially when you consider these folks ain’t about that life. At. All.
Hell, county jail would probably be a shock for a number of these people. Real jail??? Their shit will turn white.
Subsole
@raven: Yeah. I was certainly wrong on that.
Subsole
@Cameron: Hell, I was thinking more of the expanded surveillance powers.
Same fuckers shouting us down as terrorist loving traitors all these years are about to learn some shit…
Immanentize
@sphouch: Ah, felony murder, my special interest. It depends on the statute. Was it an enumerated felony murder statute? A general “dangerous felony” statute? What is the underlying theory? General causation? The redline/innocent victim test? California’s “Agency” type theory? Each of these details leads to another Q. But the youngun from NJ who told the media all about busting in and Ashli getting shot certainly provided plenty of non-act intent evidence.
ballerat
@Ken: They are already responding with pretending any of the bad stuff was by “the Left” and “BLM/Antifa” dressed as trumpies. This was being pushed yesterday by the local Republican party here.
Calouste
@Subsole: Actually, if these are the usual kind of right wingers, they’re probably fairly familiar with county jail. It at least I assume that’s where they end up for DUIs, domestic violence, drugs possession, disturbing the peace, burglary, all that kind of stuff. A lot of these folks, like the Bundy gang, have a significant rap sheet.
Subsole
@Immanentize: Jesus. Rational actors negotiating as adults…how long has it been?
ballerat
@Baud: Jury nullification.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MCA1: yes. dead Cops are hard to ignore.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: Thee is video of a dude in flag pajams smoking a blunt in the rotunda. Still a federal crime!
NotMax
@ballerat
See: straws, grasping at.
Martin
@Cacti: Agreed. This wasn’t trespassing. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who passed the first line of barricades needs to be charged with seditious conspiracy. It can be a lesser sentence, but it should be this charge, which prevents the person from holding public office.
Additionally, everyone who assisted with the planning, but didn’t attend needs to be charged.
Additionally, members of Congress and the executive branch who publicly stated that the election was stolen, signed onto a lawsuit stating the election was stolen, need to be charged.
Additionally, any public figure, Fox news personality, OANN personality, lawyer, who argued the election was stolen, needs to be charged.
If the message is sent that this was mere trespassing, this movement will grow as there are plenty of people willing to risk a trespassing charge. They will be on ballots in 2022, like Marjorie Taylor Greene. It will possibly end if you make clear that the people lying about election theft and QAnon are committing sedition when those lies lead to violent action against the US.
Yes, there’s a first amendment issue here, but inciting an action is purely an act of speech, and inciting a violent act against the government is illegal. And that’s what Cruz and Hawley and Trump and others have done. If we are unwilling to call it what it is, and are unwilling to use the laws on the books, then we’re going to make matters worse because this can grow. This is not even the first assertion that an election was stolen – this has been growing for years, and without consequence, seems to be growing in magnitude as a result.
It’s a shame that so many Americans think that Santa Claus is going to arrive with the Rasczak’s Roughnecks to violently overthrow the pedophile menace, but it doesn’t make their delusional acts to overturn an election any less seditious.
Throw the insurrection charge on Trump and the leaders of this movement.
If we label them as traitors and let the justice system lay out publicly how they are traitors, maybe we can snap most of them out of this.
germy
trollhattan
@raven:
Watched the presser with Maryland Governor Larry Hogan(R) yesterday. Steny Hoyer called him while bunkered at the Capital and asked for help, which Hogan immediately offered. They sent MD National Guard and others to the border while asking for SecDef permission to bring them into DC. SecDef was NOT AVAILABLE and would not respond. Finally, after an hour and a half he Hogan gets a call from the Secretary of the Army giving permission to roll.
This shit was failure or conspiracy–I know not which–on every imaginable level.
raven
@Subsole: It’s just that things like that take time to find out the real deal. The cop that got backed up the stairs was obviously in great fear but he didn’t draw his weapon. The cops with AR’s where the woman got killed were in a similar situation. Should they have started shooting? Fired in the air? The woman got blown back into the crowd and they didn’t disperse but I don’t think shooting a bunch of them was the answer.
Subsole
@rikyrah: Adam was pointing out how…fortuitous…it was that a normally-locked side door was somehow opened.
Some folks are gonna be in deep, deeeeeep trouble.
raven
@trollhattan: I’m talking about the people in the line of fire.
Subsole
@trollhattan: Heh. Bravo.
artem1s
@evap:
they have to have names too. which of these deplorables are going to step up and admit they committed a crime?
jl
Maybe he was a good guy. Then he joined a mob to invade the seat of the national legislature, with the intent to kidnap or kill all the federal officials who had made Trump angry.
Delk
Oh good lord… There is a pic of the woman who was trampled to death carrying a Gadsden flag.
trollhattan
@Immanentize:
That there’s possession and consumption of a federal Schedule I drug on federal grounds, right there, yessir.
NotMax
Question for the legal hivemind.
Is there a bright line distinction between trespass and criminal trespass? Or is that two ways of saying the same thing?
Another Scott
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Or maybe people should slow down and let Congress and the new President do their jobs and actually write the legislation before freaking out about him/them/it/whatever-new-Twitter-15-character-outrage-popped-up-in-the-last-0.3-seconds…
[sigh]
Cheers,
Scott.
evodevo
@germy: He took that piece of mail and documented the act himself…that’s mail theft – federal felony – up to 5 years…
Calouste
Purdue concedes to Ossoff in Georgia (and being a typical Republican piece of shit, doesn’t mention his opponent by name).
WA Senator Patty Murray calls for Haley and Cruz to resign.
geg6
@Baud:
Fuck that noise. Should I take Murray’s opinion on this over Fauci? I don’t think so. I don’t want to hear one word of criticism of anything Biden does from any asshole at CNN until they reckon with their own responsibility for creating the atmosphere that led to all of this. Fuck them and their concern trolling.
Spanky
@raven: Glover!?! He’s too old for that shit.
Subsole
@Calouste: Fair point.
NotMax
@artem1s
Set up an official looking web site.
“Fill out this form to apply for pardon.”
Dollars to donuts a majority of ’em would take the bait.
//
Martin
@Fair Economist: That’s what Swalwell was asserting. Someone told the insurrectionists where to go in the building – only someone who worked/works in the building would know where to go.
He wants Republicans and their staff investigated for aiding the insurrection.
oldgold
Not all, but some of the Capitol Hill Cops aided and abetted this.
Watch this: twitter.com/McCormackJohn/status/1347613073494962180
trollhattan
@raven:
Yeah, and a reason they were so undermanned is through either administration inaction or intention, putting those who did respond in considerable and unnecessary peril.
Just Some Fuckhead
Does anyone think they shouldn’t have shot the invaders if they were Muslims? How about Hans Gruber and his crew?
Cheryl from Maryland
@Chetan Murthy: As a 30 year federal employee, I had to have two factor authorization and a computer that required password, etc. authorization after two minutes of non-use, but the higher up you were in the organization, the less security you had to deal with from the IT personnel. The director had no security on her computer.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I can’t tell you how often my first laugh of the day is because of you. Thanks for being you, Baud.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Another Scott
@NotMax: You need to cc: Popehat whenever RICO comes up.
It’s the law!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Subsole
@Martin: As far as the first Amendment…what is gonna happen with faceborg and twitter? I mean, these folks have a huge chunk of the blame here.
If I let people sell meth out of my living room, I have accepted a certain amount of liability. I would argue Facebook did the same.
MCA1
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yeah, I think that’s probably the case for a substantial majority of the people there not in tactical gear. Some of them probably stupidly thought they would all just waltz into the U.S. Capitol together and cause a ruckus to make their point and convince Mike Pence to disregard his constitutional duty and then go home. More probably showed up intending to just protest and got swept up in crowd mentality – witness the morons wearing their work security badges or mugging for cameras only to be identified by a million internet sleuths within hours. But regardless which group they’re in, I bet an awful lot of the rioters are thinking right now “Holy shit, those guys on my fb feed were serious about a bloody revolution?”
I would imagine as the investigations proceed we’re going to find a hardcore of true believing insurrectionists with some loose working plans comprising maybe a couple hundred people, while the rest are just fools. That doesn’t excuse them, obviously, but I’d bet the serious prosecutorial resources are spared them and they’re charged with criminal trespass and other smaller offenses.
Wyatt Salamanca
You tell ’em Prez Elect Uncle Joe.
Trump is the scum of the Earth and you’re correct about this asshole deciding to skip out of town rather than attending your swearing in.
Good luck Joe and fuck Trump and his rotten disgusting children and also fuck Pence and fuck Rudy Nosferatu Giuliani.
CaseyL
Hearing about the arrests is giving me life. I hope to hear of many, many more. Working up the chain. This coup attempt had at least logistical support from someone inside, and at least rhetorical support from President Trump. I want the arrests to go WAY up the food chain.
@Calouste:
Senator Murray is one of my Senators. That’s my Senator talking. I love me some Senator Murray.
Gonna have a lot of calling-and-thanking to do.
Gin & Tonic
@raven:
Not a comparable situation for many reasons, but in February of 2014 in Kyiv security forces fired on protesters, killing dozens, and within two days the government had collapsed and the President fled the country.
Baud
@Delk: Trampled to death where? Is this one of the “medical emergencies” deaths?
Baud
@WaterGirl: Urine jokes are always a hit.
Delk
@Baud: Yep
Aziz, light!
@Chetan Murthy: If the Congress follows protocols like those in my federal agency, that laptop can’t be accessed without the designated user’s smart card in its card reader and entry of a six-digit PIN.
Kelly
Hooray! Just had a bit of a scramble helping my 84 year old Mom get her paperwork together for a COVID vaccination. For over 20 years, until March 2020 COVID lockdown she has spent one afternoon a week helping my disabled niece. Drives her shopping, buys lunch out that sort of thing. This has put her on a list of healthcare providers which Oregon added to the get your vaccination now list on Tuesday. She just drove off to Salem to get her first shot!
germy
@Delk:
“Don’t tread on me”
Martin
@NotMax: See my comment above. These people weren’t joyriding. The woman who was maced and crying on camera admitted at the end she was there to overthrow the government – it’s a revolution.
Every person who passed those outer barricades did so as part of a plot to violently overturn an election, to prevent the counting of the EC votes. That is sedition. That is a criminal act, and so of course criminal trespass would apply because it was trespassing with the intent of committing a criminal act.
But you guys are focusing on trying to upsell minor charges. If you are charging them with the same crimes as drunk frat boys out cow-tipping, then you’ve completely missed the magnitude of this, which means they’re going to miss the magnitude of this.
Seditious cconspiracy should be the starting point. That’s the underlying crime. Add on accessory to murder if they were personally violent. Add on trespassing and destruction of govt property and all that if need be, those are just charms for the bracelet, but the bracelet is the sedition charge.
Baud
Subsole
@raven: I don’t know.
I can’t see a good answer. Warning shots are just as likely to escalate things, and may overpenateate an interior partition hitting bystanders.
Going full rock and roll??? Takes a very particular mindset. And brother you better pray they scatter, cause if they don’t the survivors will rip you limb from limb. Slowly.
Like I said. Don’t know what was right. Probably went about as well as it could have gone at that moment. Glad it wasn’t my call to make.
Origuy
@Calouste: I did the same thing when my iPhone was stolen. Although it was my personal phone, it had software on it to access my work email. I notified IT security as well as disabling it through iCloud, but I think the SIM card would have been removed before it was turned back on. Otherwise, it would have been bricked.
Alison Rose
@Mary G: Thank you <3 And I wholeheartedly agree.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Garance Franke-Ruta @thegarance
(Is it wrong that I kind of hope that last one comes true? )
“part of the Chinese Communist Party” “Enjoy Gitmo, you piece of shit”
rikyrah
???
Alison Rose
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Thank you.
Subsole
@NotMax:
…
…
…
Holy shit.
You don’t even need the snark tags.
That’s genius.
rikyrah
@Alison Rose:
So sorry for your loss ?????
Bruce K in ATH-GR
Juliet Foxtrot Charlie. Biden is talking about the Big Lie technique, tracing it back to Goebbels, and hanging it on Trump, Cruz, and Hawley.
Biden actually went there. Good for him.
Baud
@Alison Rose: My condolences.
Subsole
@trollhattan: Christ. Everything they accused us of during Benghazi…
Every lie a confession.
Leto
@germy: ok, that made me laugh
NotMax
@Subsole
Clumsily put, they (as does this blog) have exemption — although not unlimited — from legally complicit ramifications arising or stemming from user content posted.
rikyrah
Baud
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: Deprogrammer in chief.
Leto
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry for you loss :(
raven
@Calouste: Perdue
germy
Rosanne Boyland
She hated Joe Biden and hated his supporters. She was a Qanon follower and insisted on going to the Capitol over the objections of her family.
rikyrah
Subsole
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bless her heart.
Expel her.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: I saw that. I hope they nail every person that was there, except for journalists, and if that person gets nailed for pot, so be it.
Hoodie
@raven: My sense is that the failure was in the lack of prep for the day, not the line officers themselves, which is why Pelosi was quick to shit can the higher ups. Some of those line officers got the shit kicked out of them, and they were just trying to make the best of a bad day, securing the congressional members and staff. Some of those yahoos may have been armed and it could have gotten really ugly. Much safer to have evidence on video and round them up later. The only thing that bothers me is whether the lack of prep was on purpose, which could be anything from a plot to support an attempted coup to some dumbass passive-aggressive “blue lives matter” based negligence.
raven
@rikyrah:
“A spokeswoman for Carr said the Attorney General “unequivocally had no knowledge or involvement” in the robocall and “is working diligently to determine how this situation occurred and ensure that it does not happen again.”
The recorded call encouraged Trump supporters to go to the Capitol Wednesday to demand that Congress block certification of the 2020 election, which Joe Biden won, including the results in Georgia.”
ajc
Baud
@germy:
These people remind me of those Americans and Europeans who went to Syria to support ISIS.
raven
@Hoodie: And that is not what I’m talking about.
Ken
That’s actually a plot point in one of Charles Stross’s Laundry novels.
(“Computational demonology” is a thing, and MSoft in its infinite wisdom allows PPT to run arbitrary code. So you can have a presentation that not only bores people to death, but raises the corpses as zombie slaves.)
Lyrebird
@Another Scott:
You’re in good company I think: this excellent dude
and I mean that seriously
posted some words of perspective about how fast the House can reconvene and vote and all:
…and then when he got a boatload of retweets, he encouraged people to give to local food banks.
We need more people like that dude getting heard, and fewer DJT people. Yes I will refer to them as people, because I am not a Nazi. We have more than enough Nazis.
MCA1
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: OMG, I had not until just now contemplated this absofuckinglutely DELICIOUS possibility. I spent all of the last 4 years on the lookout for the wailing and lamentations of Republican Dr. Frankensteins as their monster Trump turned on them, but I never ever thought to look forward to the day the base might turn on Trump.
Lord let me have lived cleanly enough to grant me this one wish. Let them see how the grift worked, how he gave them nothing in return, how he actually loathed them all along. I would burst with schadenfreude to see a rowdy gang of MAGAts harrass that fucker at the gates of Mar-a-COVID and start posting ritual bonfires of their stupid hats and flags and whatnot. I know that means they’ll be susceptible to defecting en masse to a worse demagogue who tells them they’ll succeed where Trump failed them, but most of them are more likely to go back under their rocks for a decade or two in dismay at the lack of immediate satisfaction on their grievances from political engagement.
Ken
Has he been to any of his rallies?
Wait, I forgot that he keeps the riff-raff at least fifty feet away, and is too vain to wear the glasses he clearly needs. So this may actually be the first time he’s seen any of his supporters clearly.
Ken
Cacti
I’ve been saying this from the start. The fact that Capitol Police brass left a skeleton crew for security, along with the fact that specific Congressional offices were targeted, whose locations would only be familiar to people with insider knowledge, has had me thinking criminal conspiracy from the start.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Subsole: Section 230
craigie
@Steeplejack (phone):
Win
MCA1
@rikyrah: If that’s true, Meadows is a bigger moron than I thought, and I would have put him at an 8 out of 10 on the moron scale before reading that tweet.
smedley the uncertain
@Just Some Fuckhead: Or a Black Police officer being chased up several flights of stairs by a white mob. See video, sorry no link but it’s out there.
Ken
@NotMax: Isn’t that what “Section 230” is all about? The one Trump wants repealed — not realizing that if hosts become responsible for content, he’s going to have to set up a server in his basement if he ever wants to tweet again.
NotMax
@Martin
Total agreement on the gravest charges being assiduously applied. On top of that throw the book at them, all the way down to being in violation of the dress codes for the House and Senate chambers.
Any sentences to be served consecutively.
hueyplong
@MCA1: So a really dumb rat will run ONTO a sinking ship.
mali muso
@Cacti: Yeah, and it looks like there were some seriously prepped professional-looking dudes there ready to execute a plan. Kidnapping and possibly worse. Link (warning, Slate)
WaterGirl
@Kelly: So happy for you and your mom!
NotMax
@Ken
Regarding that, a dead letter for now.
patrick II
@NotMax:
I love that. Put it on some dark web sites and I bet you would get at least a few takers.
Frankensteinbeck
@MCA1:
If they turn on him rather than abandon him, it will be because Trump fails to do something they are convinced he can do. The obvious candidate is martial law. Give it a week or two after Biden takes office and they realize Trump isn’t setting a trap but actually chickened out on saving the republic, and we may see the venom turned on him. White supremacy cannot fail, it can only be failed.
moonbat
@Delk: It’s a measure of how much darker my humor has become over the last four years that I saw your comment and just started laughing my ass off. Maybe I should take a little break….
Martin
@Subsole: That’s what the fight over section 230 is about. Whether they have any responsibility for what it said on their platforms. It’s a hard problem mainly because the internet is not a platform of physical goods – its data which means its trivial to distribute and copying it is a primary mechanism for how things work, which means it rapidly overwhelms any meatspace effort to monitor it.
I’m in favor of making the content said on the platform the responsibility of the person making it, and not on the platform itself. If you threaten to kill the president on Twitter, that your liability and not Twitters.
That said, there are two places where I think they should be liable.
It’s not that nutjobs say dangerous things on Facebook, it’s that Facebook rolls them all up and makes them look like an organized movement, and we are very well tuned to appeal to the crowd. We can filter out one nutjob believing we are smarter than them, but when 100 nutjobs are all saying the same thing, we tend to assume they are smarter than just us. That’s really what needs to be broken, and the identity problem – because we will assess Joe from Alabama differently from Igor from Kiev when it comes to US politics.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
I just had one of those awful thoughts.
Article IV of the 25th Amendment, as it stands today, depends on the Vice President. Even if Congress were to designate an independent body to substitute for the principal officers of the executive departments, my reading of the text of Article IV is that the Vice President must always be included.
The insurrectionists were coming for Pence, with plans to hang him.
If the office of Vice President is vacant, there’s no way for Article IV to be invoked. And the only way to install a new Vice President outside of an election is for one to be nominated by the President and approved by a majority of both houses of Congress.
We came too goddamn close to flying off the edges of the map this week, and the danger still isn’t over.
jl
@rikyrah: Thanks for info. I’ve read reports that there was a lot of chatter on social media about the ringleaders doing research on where people and valuable items would be, most direct and quickest way to get to them.
I most of them were disorganized rioters who had little clue what they were doing. But evidence that the ringleaders were organized and had specific plans. And I read a news report that there were communications between some in the mob and the WH, which needs to be investigated and the the results made public.
Can’t believe that there are any members of Congress expressing any doubts at all about impeachment. They could kick this criminal out of office in a day with impeachment and trial. From previous trial, my understanding is that once Trump is impeached, conducting a trial takes precedence over all other business in the Senate, it can be expedited.
Ken
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’re going to need a smaller violin.
Martin
@rikyrah: We’re going to have to unwind this part of the GOP like we did Al Qaeda.
jl
@Martin: I agree. And if it were anybody but reactionary white people, we’d see that happening immediately.
raven
@mali muso: Goddamn it there is NO evidence of any “sidearms” in the building and the dude with the AR was on the street.
raven
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: It’s never over
Ken
I suppose it’s a good thing that he has all the efficiency and dedication that we’ve come to expect from Trump picks.
Those incriminating e-mails won’t print and shred themselves.
Subsole
@Kelly: Wonderful news!
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t understand the tweet. Is she calling him a traitor from the left or the right?
NotMax
@Bruce K in ATH-GR
“I couldn’t be more proud to introduce Acting Vice President Ivanka.”
// // //
(gag. spew.)
Ken
@Kelly: Congratulations! Gives me hope that I’ll someday get a COVID vaccination, although the tracker site still claims that there are 270 million people ahead of me. I’m beginning to wonder if it tells everyone that.
Chetan Murthy
@raven: Mr. Ziptie had -something- sidearm-like in his hip holster. Some think it was a taser. This fucker Coffman, upon returning from the Capitol to find his truck, had a 9mm on his person: montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/crime/2021/01/08/alabama-man-lonnie-coffman-arrested-11-molotov-…
jl
@raven: Thanks for info. I agree that there has been too much rush to judgment on how Capital Police handled it.
It is shocking, though, to see video of some officers paling around with the mob, while leaving others to be overwhelmed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Just Some Fuckhead: Garance isn’t saying it, she linked to the video. He’s being chase through the airport by trumpers.
Ken
@Just Some Fuckhead: From the phrase “it was rigged,” I’m assuming from the right. Graham was, I hope, not alone in forgetting that cultists hate unbelievers, but reserve their real venom for heretics.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right, thanks. Watched the video and figured it out.
Just Some Fuckhead
Just to be on the record, I think it’s great Romney, Graham and the rest of these fuckers are being hounded by their supporters. Nothing is more gratifying than seeing the chickens come home to roost.
jl
@Ken: Unbelievers > heretics >>>>>>>> apostates.
For fundamentalists and rabid cultists, apostates are the worst, deserve the worst deaths, are going to the lowest circle of hell.
Edit: maybe because they are the most threatening, because they most threaten to shatter the cultist’s crazy belief system, and most effective in mobilizing needed social action against a dangerous cult.
NotMax
@Ken
Graham reluctant to break up his golf foursome.
Himself, Dolt 45, Dolt 45’s ego, Dolt 45’s back-up ego.
//
sab
OT: As an old but not that old, DeWine says spouse can get his Corona vax in first week of February and I get mine in second week, vaccine quantities permitting. They do seem to have this planned this thing out. Yay.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: Thee is video of a dude in flag pajams smoking a blunt in the rotunda. Still a federal crime!
Chetan Murthy
@raven: Which one is it, Raven? Did none of these coup participants have firearms? Or only had rifles [no “sidearms”, as you put it] ? B/c if they didn’t have firearms, then why were the Capitol Police so hard-put to fend them off? I’d think a few center-mass rounds would teach the rest to back the fuck up?
You can’t really have it both ways, you know: either (a) they had firearms, in which case maybe the po-po were feeling unsafe and overwhelmed, or (b) they weren’t, in which case the po-po were just FINE with the invasion.
Pick, yo’.
Ken
@jl: Right, “apostates” is a much better word for the way Trumpists think of former Trumpists, or even Trumpists expressing some slight doubt about this week’s events.
I am hoping Trump gets mad enough at Graham to release whatever dirt he has, that converted Graham from “he’ll destroy the Republican party” to “yes sir, how high” in under a day.
Immanentize
@sab: It’s not as easy as it might look. In fact, there is some question (empty wheel is on this) whether he already messed up Flynn’s pardon. We shall see.
Also, there is the question of when they are executed and delivered…. Marbury v. Madison.
Mike in NC
The weekend edition of USA Today has a lot of special coverage of the terrorist attack on the Capitol and related buildings. They also interviewed a bunch of the MAGAts who were there and — shockingly, I know — reveals that most of these Trump-loving scumbags are lifelong losers filled with white grievance. Many are self-employed and deeply in debt like their hero.
I’m going to save it as a souvenir of the demise of Putin’s puppet.
taumaturgo
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Feast your eyes and take a close look at this POS true constituents. opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/joe-manchin/summary?cid=N00032838&cycle=2014
Subsole
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: I was very surprised.
But I really shouldn’t have been.
Joe stood next to Obama for 8 years. He knew what he was up against before the rebels stormed the capitol.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Exactly, Trump can never deliver the paradise they are dreaming about so sooner or later Trump failed the Revolution and is the enemy.
Calouste
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: The 25th Amendment is better than what was there before, but it still has some pretty big holes in it. If there’s no VP and the President is in a coma, there is no one in charge. No bills can be signed into law, nothing. I guess Congress could impeach the comatose President as a last resort.
Subsole
@Martin: Thank you for the reply. Sounds very reasonable.
I think that is what burns my ass – the laxity of enforcement. I get the feeling they fobbed QC off on the algorithm to save cash. Then ignored all the customer complaints that kept rolling in.
And people ended up dead over that business decision.
What I want is a kind of Hippocratic Oath for big tech. Say what you like, but first do no harm.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Martin: “It’s not that nutjobs say dangerous things on Facebook, it’s that Facebook rolls them all up and makes them look like an organized movement, and we are very well tuned to appeal to the crowd.”
You Tube has this problem too; it was their algorithm that created the Flat Earth movement and when You Tube changed the algorithm Flat Eathers did down to just background crazy.
Kent
NYT says the man arrested for crashing Pelosi’s office is 60 years old. How the hell old is his grandma?
Or am I mixing up my MAGAts?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Chetan Murthy: You seem to be looking at this as a binary choice at the time. They may have not had firearms, which as raven said, there’s no evidence right now that they did. However, at the time, considering that they were in some cases carrying backpacks and other bags, they may have been carrying weapons. The police(Capitol and Metropolitan) had no idea. The assessment at the time was not armed/not armed; it was armed(seeing a weapon), may be armed, and not armed. I don’t think that the police could rely on the later.
Bill Arnold
@JoyceH:
I expect that a small fraction of the organizing was done by cells with decent opsec/comsec. (Showing up in person is an opsec fail though.)
(I suggest everyone reading install Signal on their smartphones, just to have. It seems to be secure unless at least one phone in a 2-way or group is compromised, either remotely rooted or seized and then extracted, or both. Late model iPhones with long passcodes or passphrases and no biometric unlock best, and turn it off if possible before it’s seized.)
Just Some Fuckhead
@Ken: I think we all know what the hold over Princess Ladybug is.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Kent: You’re mixing up your insurrectionists.
Bill Arnold
@IsraelTopshelf:
There needs to be serious (as in funded for at least a few hundred K) open source investigation to keep the official investigations honest, and to augment them since there are so many perpetrators that more investigators is better. There will be fuckups/bad ids by both pros and amateurs but so it goes.
Ruckus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I believe that the shitheads really do believe that there absolutely should be nothing illegal about racism. They believe they have the right to say and do anything racist they desire. Hate, injure, kill anyone who they say is racially different than them. It is of course well beyond any concept of law, but I think they truly believe it. It’s why trump is their mascot, he believes the same.
Ruckus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Do you think they will ever be able to figure that out?
I don’t.
Someone, like their lawyer, might tell them, but them figuring it out?
Ruckus
@Immanentize:
I haven’t seen my $600 yet.
Just Chuck
@Ken:
Also known as “orientation”.
Denali
@Martin,
Agreed. Thanks for laying the reality of all this out.
sab
@Ruckus: Obviously you make too mich money. Class traitor!!!
NotMax
@Ruckus
At least you can expect to get it. I did not fall into the group to get W’s check, nor any of the ones more recently legislated. And it’s not like I couldn’t have used the funds to help cover day to day expenses, which at times are touch and go.
Amir Khalid
@Steeplejack (phone):
Guantanamera is Spanish for “girl/woman from Guantánamo”.
Annie
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Are you serious? I saw the picture of him leaning back in her chair.
And he took some of the mail — why? Did he think it had directions to a men’s room?
I hope Nancy has her office fumigated before she goes back to it.
Jay
@raven:
Two of the cuffs carrying Tactical guys have a holstered weapon on their right hips. It’s not clear yet if they are carrying short barreled 9mm autos, or a particular model of taser.
mobile.twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1347011413101998080
J R in WV
@Martin:
A great comment, Martin. I agree totally, these people have fomented this insurrection by lying about the election blatantly for months now. All of it adds up to supporting this insurrection. They all need to be convicted of contributing to the insurrection.
I don’t care if some of them get reduced sentences, we have too many people in prison anyway, but we need to make sure that the organizers and instigators serve lots of time — they’re guilty of murder at a minimum.