Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

As long as McCarthy is Speaker, the House will never be in order.

No one could have predicted…

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

It’s a doggy dog world.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

Joe Lieberman disappointingly reemerged to remind us that he’s still alive.

… among the most cringeworthy communications in the history of the alphabet!

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Republicans don’t trust women.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Let there be snark.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

You are here: Home / Politics / Goddamned Traitors / A classic Gambino style roll-up

A classic Gambino style roll-up

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I am not a lawyer.

However, that sure as fuck sounds like an overt act of a conspiracy.

And given an overt act of conspiracy, there are going to be a shit ton of small fry who will soon be enjoying the full and unparrelled attention of the US government.  They will be getting lawyers who will be telling them that silence gets them 10 to 20 while talking gets them a much shorter and easier sentence.

A lot of people are extremely unlikely to be pardoned in the next week.  The incentive to squeal will be extraordinarily high.

But again, I am not a lawyer.

 

 

 

Reader Interactions

174Comments

  6. 6.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    a name to watch for (my bold)

    Josh Kraushaar @HotlineJosh· Jan 12
    Rep. Mo Brooks: “Per my cell phone records, on Tuesday morning, January 5, I had a telephone call with Brian Jack, White House Political Director. He asked me to speak at the Trump rally the next day”

    Bill Kristol @BillKristol ·Jan 12
    Whoa. So the Trump White House—not the Trump campaign—was helping organize the rally that resulted in storming the Capitol. How is Mr. Jack still on the public payroll? But really, the question is, how is Mr. Trump?

    Brian Jack, the internet tells me, is 32 years old. I’m guessing that’s young for his position, and that that’s because trump has burned through most experienced Republicans willing to work closely with him. What do you think the odds are that Brian Jack has some indiscreet texts with Don Jr, or Jared, or Matt Gaetz, or…. And what do you think the odds are that young Mr Jack won’t flip like a flapjack if somebody turns the heat up.

  7. 7.

    LeftCoastYankee

    I thought of this earlier when Hakeem Jeffries said if the Senate trial was after inauguration, then there would be the “full rules of evidence, not like last time”.

    I don’t know if the Senate is best for anything beyond Trump (better to leave that to DOJ, etc.), but it got me thinking that the “pardon-clock” is running out.

  9. 9.

    LAO

    As someone who’s defended many members of the so-called Gambino Crime Family, I take exception to this post headline.

    But seriously, these fine people are in a boatload of trouble.

  11. 11.

    Gravenstone

    @raven:  Cue the hourslong tape of him whining about a “stolen election” for the last two months. The incitement wasn’t the speech right before they marched off to sack the Capitol, it was the endless lies about why he lost the election. Lies echoed and amplified by most of the Republican caucus.

  12. 12.

    LAO

    @raven: Well, it really depends on how far back the Senate and/or federal prosecutors want to look.  Trump has been inciting these delusional people for months — his speech on the 6th was the end point, not the beginning.

  13. 13.

    kindness

    This whole thing was deeper than we figured. I mean it was amateur chaotic so I didn’t think it was planned. But it was planned. We’re lucky they are Spartans in their own minds but rookies in real life.

  17. 17.

    hueyplong

    Every time I read one of these things I think of Chappelle’s “When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong.”

  18. 18.

    BR

    What happens when Trump pardons them all?  Because there’s no way his advisors don’t ask him to do it — they will see it as a means of revenge against the “deep state” or whatever.  So I’m fully expecting either blanket pardons for all the people at the capitol or specific ones for politically connected or prominent members of that crew.

    To me that was the biggest reason to remove him from office before his term was done — to minimize the pardons.

  19. 19.

    burnspbesq

    @raven:

    If that’s Trump’s defense, he’s going down. Incitement is one of those crimes like conspiracy, it doesn’t have to be successful to constitute an offense.

  20. 20.

    HumboldtBlue

    @LAO:

    Any insight you could share on what the Feds are looking for, how an investigation is conducted, how this could play out, what a lawyer like you would be doing would be more than welcome.

  21. 21.

    Jeffro

    @raven: my daughter heard that earlier and was like, “wut?”

    “They think this is going to get trump off the hook?  If it was pre-planned then OF COURSE he had a hand in it.  What is that, going from ‘incitement’ to ‘conspiracy’?”

    She’s wise beyond her years.  =)

  22. 22.

    ByRookorbyCrook

    So this cadre of Oathkeepers used the mass insurrection caused by Mango Mussolini as cover for their much more planned activities. What do you want to bet the people on the Jan 5th tour mentioned by Rep. Mikie Sherrill were these same Oathkeepers? And now they have a transcript of their operational conversation.

  23. 23.

    Omnes Omnibus

    They used a walkie-talkie app.  I am having trouble getting past that.  An app.  That recorded them.  We are really lucky that they are as special as they are.  An app, for christ’s sake.

  25. 25.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m a techno-dolt. Is a Stringer Bell reference appropriate here?
    y’all talked about a motherfucking seditious conspiracy, on motherfucking Zello?”

  29. 29.

    quakerinabasement

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “Whoa. So the Trump White House—not the Trump campaign—was helping organize the rally”

    Kristol is pulling our legs. He knows there was never any difference between the Trump White House and the Trump campaign.

  30. 30.

    LadySuzy

    @BR: Trump is preoccupied by his brand. He knows that because of what he did, he’s losing businesses, he’s losing money. I’m not sure he will pardon the insurrectionists. He has “condemned” violence today, hasn’t he ?

    He is in a bind. His cult, or his money ?

  31. 31.

    LAO

    @BR: Well, from a criminal defense stand point, a blanket pardon of the domestic terrorists would be seen by prosecutors as a 100% admission of Trump’s culpability (sort of along the lines of consciousness of guilt).  I know that Trump doesn’t really listen to advice but he his singular devotion to his own self-interest would probably prevent him from pardoning these people.

  32. 32.

    hueyplong

    They’re carrying their own cellphones to an insurrection while congratulating each other on avoiding tracking chips in vaccines.

  34. 34.

    quakerinabasement

    @BR:

    I’m fully expecting either blanket pardons for all the people at the capitol

    Can he do that? Can you give a pardon to a mob of unnamed people?

  37. 37.

    DCA

    Interesting point about blanket pardons (from elsewhere and IANAL): you can pardon person A for crime X (usual case); you can pardon person A for “all [federal] crimes committed during [dates]” (Nixon). But it isn’t clear you can pardon “a bunch of un-unamed people who did any federal crimes during [dates]” which is what would be needed here. The draft-dodger pardon wasn’t really a pardon, more a statement that nobody would be prosecuted for this particular federal crime: this is the kind of discretion prosecuters always have, and it is reversible (my source for this claimed that Reagan thought of reversing that decision but didn’t).

  39. 39.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I sometimes think about these folks, does no one love them enough to tell them to stop? In Lindsey’s case, I really don’t believe anyone does.

    Sam Stein @samstein · 29m
    Lindsey Graham suggests that George Washington may face a post-presidential impeached for owning slaves. “where does this stop?” he tells Hannity.

    took me a minute to figure out this wasn’t Sam Stein trying to make a joke, but it doesn’t look like it

    Sam Stein @samstein 31m
    Graham then raises the question of whether Congress should impeach Obama now over Benghazi.

  41. 41.

    mvr

    @quakerinabasement:

    It would not be in his interest to blanket pardon all the co-conspirators but for himself. I’m pretty sure they would be unable to take the 5th in Federal Court. And they would be good witnesses going up the chain to the top guy.

  43. 43.

    matt the somewhat reasonable

    Even if they do get pardoned, they are on record getting convicted and getting a 10-20 spot. That will fuck up your future career and life prospects.

  49. 49.

    JaySinWA

    The 14th Amendment gives Congress the power to enforce Section 3 through legislation. So Congress can immediately pass a law declaring that any person who has ever sworn to defend the Constitution — from Mr. Trump to others — and who incited, directed, or participated in the Jan. 6 assault “engaged in insurrection or rebellion” and is therefore constitutionally disqualified from holding office in the future.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/opinion/Trump-impeachment-disqualification.html

    There’s a fair amount of discussion of this now, possibly to remove political futures from anyone having taken an oath involved in the insurrection.

  50. 50.

    LeftCoastYankee

    I find myself mildly disappointed when I hear Lindsay Graham speak that we don’t get to see the part where he hops about and coughs “Gollum… gollum….”

  52. 52.

    aliasofwestgate

    @debbie: I have a friend who’s a Navy vet and was solicited for it 10 years ago. He saw the whole thing radicalizing even then and turned them down flat. He’s still personally mad that the radicalization of vets is happening in his peers and those that followed after.  Mostly because post tour, they aren’t helped as much as they should be. Vet services are a laugh for many of them, instead of helpful.  So of course, those organizations snap them right up and here we are.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    So this cadre of Oathkeepers used the mass insurrection caused by Mango Mussolini as cover for their much more planned activities. What do you want to bet the people on the Jan 5th tour mentioned by Rep. Mikie Sherrill were these same Oathkeepers? And now they have a transcript of their operational conversation.

    So, going beyond the rioting mob thing.

    Who were the leaders, and how did they intend to change the election?

    And did all these goobers spend their own money for travel, equipment, etc?

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @RepubAnon: Define succeeded.  Lynched some legislators and destroyed the copies of the electoral college ballots?  That would not have overturned the election.  And those who lived through it would have been even more pissed off than they are now.

  57. 57.

    sanjeevs

    Saw a video yesterday where one of the insurrectionists was addressing a crowd with megaphone and he says that Muriel Bowser just called for National Guard and the DOD said No Thanks.

    Which seems to be accurate. Where did he get that info from?

  58. 58.

    Ken

    @DCA: But it isn’t clear you can pardon “a bunch of un-unamed people who did any federal crimes during [dates]”

    Is tax fraud a Federal crime?  I’m sure I can figure out a way to make it look like it happened on the 6th.

    Come to think of it, I saw this on a “Law and Order” once. The DA gave a witness immunity for anything in his testimony, and when he got on the stand he confessed to a bunch of murders.

  61. 61.

    Citizen Alan

    @Ken: Are you sure that wasn’t The Practice? Because one of the best episodes of that series had John Larroquette do that. And then grin at the judge.

  62. 62.

    LAO

    @Omnes Omnibus: To me this is the single craziyst aspect of all of this — it had absolutely no chance of success.  And, these fucking morons (the rioters) have literally thrown away their lives,  For nothing,  I have been arguing with my friends that this entire gambit was like a political ponzi scheme.  Everyone of these craven Republican enablers had to know, that the only possible outcome would be a fully radicalized, well armed bunch of assholes that will turn of them for insufficient loyalty to Trump. I’d impeach the lot of them if I could.

  63. 63.

    ByRookorbyCrook

    @Brachiator: Yes. Who were the guys on the other end of that Zello conversation in a nice quiet room? What was the coordination between the Cletus Wave Rally organizers and Snack Team 6? Ali Alexander appears to be willing to spill all of his secrets before he even hears about a U.S. Attorney. I doubt Mo Brooks or Gosar will keep a closed mouth either. Roll them up.

  64. 64.

    Kent

    They will squeal like stuck pigs and take plea deals.  Because they are all COMPLETELY fucked if any of these cases go to trial.  These folks are not drug cartel sicarios or ISUS di-hards willing to die for the cause.  They are ordinary people with ordinary shitty lives.  All these treason cases will be tried at the US District Court of the District of Columbia in front of diverse juries pulled from the 50% black city of Washington DC.  They very people they were trying to disenfranchise when they committed insurrection.  Federal juries are never a laughing matter.  I don’t expect any jury pulled from the voters of Washington DC are going to be amused by this.

  65. 65.

    mrmoshpotato

    @burnspbesq: “Lady Justice caves your face in!  Lady Justice caves your face in!  Lady Justice caves all your fucking fascist faces in!  And, no, you don’t get a new car!”

  66. 66.

    Kent

    @LAO: I know.   What did they think the end game was going to be?  That Trump was going to come rolling down to the Capitol to re-take power and thank them all for their service?  Idiocy beyond belief.

  67. 67.

    Ken

    @Citizen Alan: Pretty sure it was L&O, with Michael Moriarty as the DA.  Also I never watched The Practice.

    I can see it as a plot idea, but no halfway-competent DA would ever make such a deal. They’d go over the testimony ahead of time, and only cover those crimes.

  68. 68.

    Comrade Colette

    @kindness:

    Spartans in their own minds but rookies in real life

    More like Spartans in real life, too, as it turns out. Their battle prowess was substantially exaggerated and probably actually impaired rather than aided by their sociopolitical regime. As a political philosophy major, I wish this were more widely known, because it would spare us a lot of fucking stupid cosplay in helmets.

  69. 69.

    Kent

    @JaySinWA:There’s a fair amount of discussion of this now, possibly to remove political futures from anyone having taken an oath involved in the insurrection.

    It will for sure be litigated right up to SCOTUS in a hurry if the try to disqualify any existing Congressmen or Senators or Trump himself.

  71. 71.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Comrade Colette: Bret Deveraux!  He’s great!  He has a (doubtless you’ve read it already) great series on “The Fremen Mirage” about how primitives societies usually get their asses kicked by citified societies.

  72. 72.

    Kent

    @LeftCoastYankee:

    I thought of this earlier when Hakeem Jeffries said if the Senate trial was after inauguration, then there would be the “full rules of evidence, not like last time”.

    I don’t know if the Senate is best for anything beyond Trump (better to leave that to DOJ, etc.), but it got me thinking that the “pardon-clock” is running out.

    ABC news reported yesterday that Trump threw a hissy fit and is refusing to grant any more pardons to anyone since his attorneys told him he can’t pardon himself to get out of impeachment and doing so would be used as evidence of guilt in the Senate impeachment trial.  Of course that was yesterday.

  73. 73.

    Kattails

    whoa, did anyone link to this yet? Mikie Sherrill on MSNBC talking about how her military training led her to raise questions about the visitors to the capitol the day before the attack.

  75. 75.

    Barbara

    @LAO: I have extreme difficulty with the extent of the magical thinking that prompted people to engage in serious planning.  Getting caught up in crowd mentality I understand, but the people who anticipated military type combat don’t seem to understand the law enforcement ecosystem of the country they live in. To put it mildly, they blew up their lives.

  76. 76.

    LAO

    @Ken: An immunity deal in the federal system is rare.  Most defendants are required to rely on a cooperation agreement which requires him/her to admit to all of his/her prior criminal conduct during proffer sessions.  The defendant is then required to take a plea to ALL of that conduct and then the government tells the sentencing how helpful the he/she has been prior to sentencing,  But the ultimate sentence is up to the Judge.  Cooperation can be a gamble.

    Oh and if you leave some criminal conduct out of the proffers — you can be charged with it.

  77. 77.

    Captain C

    Interesting: Amy Klobuchar just described the Trumpist terrorists as, among other things, “mobsters.”

  78. 78.

    Kent

    @LadySuzy:

    @BR: Trump is preoccupied by his brand. He knows that because of what he did, he’s losing businesses, he’s losing money. I’m not sure he will pardon the insurrectionists. He has “condemned” violence today, hasn’t he ?

    He is in a bind. His cult, or his money ?

    The astonishing thing is that he could have just conceded on 11/4 or 11/5 like a normal president, spent the last 2 months doing a MAGA farewell victory tour, do the whole Douglas MacArthur “I shall Return” thing and then retire to MAGA adoration and milk his brand.

    Instead he poured gasoline over all his brand, and set it all on fire and then backed over it with his car to make sure it was really dead.

  81. 81.

    Kent

    So apparently Trump raised over $300 million with his lies about election fraud for his PAC but it is basically a slush fund.  Anyone know if there is any way for the DOJ to seize that money on some sort of fraud grounds?  And then return it all to the donors?   Wouldn’t that be poetic justice!  Take away his slush fund.

    Asking for a friend.

  82. 82.

    beef

    The most mind-blowing thing from this article:   These whackjob militants were planning to coordinate during their operation by using the Telegram app on their cell phone.  “Yeah, man, it’s encrypted.  Mil-spec.”  Never mind that the Capitol Hill IT guy can shutdown the whole packet stream.

    I’m thinking that’s a trick that works exactly once.

  86. 86.

    Kent

    @LAO:@Kent: I wouldn’t return to the donors.  Fuck them

    I agree.  Fuck them. But if it was an actual case of fraud, that is normally what they do.

  87. 87.

    Comrade Colette

    @Kent:

    Instead he poured gasoline over all his brand, and set it all on fire and then backed over it with his car to make sure it was really dead.

    Don’t forget the part where he loaded it into a trebuchet, fired it across a field, and then drove a firetruck over there to back over it a few more times.

  88. 88.

    Kattails

    Scott MacFarlane
    @MacFarlaneNews
    · 37m
    Per a chairman of a US House Subcommittee, the US Capitol Police leadership is stonewalling Members of Congress.

  90. 90.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kent: that fund seems to have fallen off the media radar in the last couple of weeks. I’ve been wondering what the total is up to now.

    And how much can trump, effectively (if not literally), pocket? I seem to recall 2/3 or 3/4?

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    @LAO:

    To me this is the single craziyst aspect of all of this — it had absolutely no chance of success. And, these fucking morons (the rioters) have literally thrown away their lives, For nothing,

    Yep, pointless from every angle. The attempted coup could not possibly succeed. What did they expect Congress to do? Fold? Did they expect the public to go along with their supposed outrage? I don’t get it.

    I also don’t understand how any presumably sane Republican member of Congress could continue to insist that Trump won. Cruz and other nutballs are lawyers who supposedly understand the Constitution. After all the turn downs by the Supreme Court, where did they think this was going to go?

    I have been arguing with my friends that this entire gambit was like a political ponzi scheme.

    Great description.  Trump led all these dopes down a dead end. And the end result is a bunch of angry, stupid goobers.

    The sad thing is that most of these dopes will continue to believe in Trump.

  94. 94.

    a lurker

    @JaySinWA: An interesting additional note: At least in Arizona, all public employees whatsoever are required to swear such an oath. I’m pretty sure that I had to swear one just to be an undergraduate lab monkey at the state university.

  95. 95.

    Mike in NC

    Several GOP Congressmen are about to be exposed as ringleaders in the terrorist attack on the Capitol building.

  96. 96.

    Brachiator

    I was just watching a CNN News clip where a true believer Trump supporter was asked what he would do if he found out that Trump really lied to him about winning the election.

    He said he would never vote again.

    Oh, please, oh please, oh please.

  98. 98.

    Kent

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    @Kent: that fund seems to have fallen off the media radar in the last couple of weeks. I’ve been wondering what the total is up to now.

    And how much can trump, effectively (if not literally), pocket? I seem to recall 2/3 or 3/4?

    Federal terrorism law and organized crime law is extremely expansive.  There has to be some way that Merrick Garland can freeze it until they “figure out what is going on”

  101. 101.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    IF you live in Manhattan and have a spare bottle of single malt, you may see a strange, wild-eyed Gollum-like creature half running, half crawling through the streets, willing to trade you a gold ring for it

    Maggie Haberman @maggieNYT 1h
    Confirming @jdawsey1 on Trump wanting to stiff Rudy, and a few new details – White House officials blocking Rudy calls to Trump; Trump said repeatedly on AF1 yesterday about the election: “I won;” Pence/others had to convince Trump to do the video today.

  103. 103.

    Wapiti

    @raven: Having read through the comments, I’ll offer that the operation could have been pre-planned; the 30-person team planning to go in, for example. But it still requires the mob, incited by Trump and Co. The 30-person assault team doesn’t get through the Capitol Police. the 30-person assault team, moving within the Trump-incited mob gets through.

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    Hm. Random musing.

    Biden becomes (broadly speaking) the landlord of Dolt 45’s D.C. hotel next week. Keep an eye out for Joe’s nomination to head the General Services Administration, which is an advise and consent position. An audit of the lease and adherence to payment requirements could conceivably lead to the place being repossessed.

  105. 105.

    PJ

    @Comrade Colette:  The Spartans were the dominant military power in Greece for a couple of hundred years, had political hegemony for about 35, and were a major player for about 350 years. That’s not nothing. Their society was built on cruelty, but their military was very effective in the context of their times.

  109. 109.

    Ken

    @Omnes Omnibus: Define succeeded. Lynched some legislators and destroyed the copies of the electoral college ballots?

    I believe that shouting “Wolverines” is also involved.

  110. 110.

    Ksmiami

    @PJ: but their singular focus on militarism left them outflanked by Athenian innovation and insights and that led to defeat despite militaristic superiority

  111. 111.

    LeftCoastYankee

    A guy I once worked with who was a consultant for small businesses told me in a moment of candor (ok over drinks) that failure of small businesses (which is crazy high) roughly comes to the owner being:

    1.  someone who is passionate about what they do but soon realize the “business” part of the work sucks the life out of them, and can’t find the right help/assistance to mitigate that.

    2.  someone who considers themselves an “entrepreneur”.  They usually succeed out of luck, hubris or sheer will.  But mostly they fail because the “entrepreneur” really defined themselves as such because they are otherwise totally unemployable*.

    *and what struck me is he didn’t say this as a negative thing… a large portion of the country believes jackasses trying to get rich quick off of cons is essential to American capitalism.  They never bothered to learn how complicated things work, they once made a windfall of money, and Trump is their hero.

  113. 113.

    dmsilev

    @Kattails: Seems kind of stupid if true. The Capitol Police work for Congress, and pissing off your bosses is seldom a career-enhancing move.

  115. 115.

    NotMax

    @Ken

    “It’s not an insurrection. It’s an incelebration! We’ll be mobbed by hot chicks now, you betcha.”

    //

  116. 116.

    bluehill

    @Kent:

    The astonishing thing is that he could have just conceded on 11/4 or 11/5 like a normal president, spent the last 2 months doing a MAGA farewell victory tour, do the whole Douglas MacArthur “I shall Return” thing and then retire to MAGA adoration and milk his brand.

    Instead he poured gasoline over all his brand, and set it all on fire and then backed over it with his car to make sure it was really dead.

    If Trump would have been smart enough to do that, he would already have been reelected. He could have just supported Fauci and the CDC when COVID first arose and I think he would have won going away. Lucky for the entire world, Trump is his own worst enemy too.

  117. 117.

    piratedan

    just a question, not sure if its already been answered or not… lets say that some of these players are indeed craven and stupid enough to have bought into the violent overthrow of the country… and lets say at a minimum that the first to go are Biggs, Gosar and Brooks… say that they are held over and arrested and charged with Sedition, and whatever assorted treason that you wish to include… say that they are convicted, or only censured and/or expelled from the chamber… does that mean that those seats remain open until the next election or do the states have to go thru the process for a special election.

    Say that Wray actually does a thorough job and the circle expands, say that it includes Cruz, Hawley, Tuberville, Graham, Hyde-White, Gohmert, Gaetz, Greene, Boebert and the rest of the GOP Fascist Glee club… and trust me, this seems outrageous and strange to even consider it but considering the depth of the self-delusion and the deep veins of craziness that has consumed the GOP could we be looking at something like sea-level change politically due to GOP stupidity? and before you shush me and tell me that I am full of crap…. would you have guessed where we are today three months ago?

    How deep does this go?  and perhaps not even specifically THIS instance, what about all of those other treasonous shoes that have yet to drop over what took place in Ukraine?  The illegal campaign financing and coordination in 2016… if they REALLY clean house, is anybody over on that side of the aisle safe?

  118. 118.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Omnes Omnibus: Actual professional criminals are so much more competent than this.

    Only one group is both this incompetent and this dangerous; middle management.

  119. 119.

    Kelly

    @Kattails:

    US Capitol Police leadership is stonewalling Members of Congress.

    Another “What is their endgame”? Do they think Congress is going to lose interest?

  120. 120.

    They Call Me Blue

    @Jeffro: I guarantee that as bad as it looks right now, the known facts by this time next week will look far worse for Trump.

  121. 121.

    Chetan Murthy

    @PJ:

     their military was very effective in the context of their times.

    Read Devereaux: he makes precisely the opposite argument — that the Spartan military was *not* as effective as their contemporaneous competitors.  Worth a read, seriously.  He’s a pretty serious ancient military historian.

  122. 122.

    Ken

    @piratedan: I think it varies state-by-state.  Often the Governor appoints a replacement Senator until the next general election, while Representatives are left vacant.

  124. 124.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Chetan Murthy: Yes, it’s been pointed out the other Greeks admired the Spartan’s for political stability and good government, not because they were some paragons of military virtue. I mean Alexander the Great didn’t even consider the Spartans worth his time and this is a guy who stormed some mountain topped fortress in Afghanistan simply because legend said Hercules was unable to take it.

    The whole Spartan super soldier elite thing is because of the movie 300.

  125. 125.

    lahke

    Coming late to the party, so don’t know if this has come up, but why is everyone so sure that the Georgia Republicans in charge of certification for Warner and Ossoff’s elections will do so when the result would be to lose the Senate Republican majority?

  128. 128.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Heh, Devereaux gets into the whole political system too.  Apparently [IIRC] it was a self-limiting state that over time got small and smaller, for reasons I’m not going to try to remember or look up.  Bu, combine that with sitting atop a class of slaves that they treated *iincredibly* poorly [so poorly it was remarked-upon by contemporaries, so this isn’t some sort of ahistorical judgment]  and there’s not much there to want to emulate.

    Devereaux is most brutal in his assessment of the Spartan system of childrearing, comparing it to a system of indoctrination for child soldiers, and clearly demonstrating that it was all about producing unstable homicidal maniacs who would murder helots at the slightest inclination.  And that this is no way to generate a cadre of disciplined, strategic military men.

  129. 129.

    Captain C

    @piratedan:

    does that mean that those seats remain open until the next election or do the states have to go thru the process for a special election.

    AFAIK they’re generally filled by special elections, timing set by the individual state.  IIRC, sometimes if the vacancy happens close enough to the general they just use the general.  I also feel like I remember stories of governors messing around with dates for political advantage.

    Say that Wray actually does a thorough job and the circle expands, say that it includes Cruz, Hawley, Tuberville, Graham, Hyde-White, Gohmert, Gaetz, Greene, Boebert and the rest of the GOP Fascist Glee club… and trust me, this seems outrageous and strange to even consider it

    That sounds entirely reasonable right now, though maybe not all of them.  Maybe.

    would you have guessed where we are today three months ago?

    It would have been my Case Nightmare (Orange?), but with a fairly high probability.  I was hoping for either fatal Big Mac Attack or him spending the remaining 2+ months of his term on the shitter tweeting imprecations at his own party for betraying him.

    How deep does this go?  and perhaps not even specifically THIS instance, what about all of those other treasonous shoes that have yet to drop over what took place in Ukraine?  The illegal campaign financing and coordination in 2016… if they REALLY clean house, is anybody over on that side of the aisle safe?

    Some of them (McCains, Cheneys, Mittster) may be immune due to having their own power bases, but I suspect the Republican party is happily compromised to an array of shady actora.

  130. 130.

    piratedan

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: my own thinking is that we could be looking at anywhere between three to twelve members of Congress/Senators who are mixed up in this Coup specifically.  All of the other evil may be placed on hold for right now, but if we’re going to clean up our act, I’m positive that we have to revisit the 2016 campaign finance and hacking issues as well as the treason that took place in the pressure brought to bear on Ukraine.

  132. 132.

    Kent

    @lahke:Coming late to the party, so don’t know if this has come up, but why is everyone so sure that the Georgia Republicans in charge of certification for Warner and Ossoff’s elections will do so when the result would be to lose the Senate Republican majority?

    They don’t have a choice.  There are deadlines and criteria set out in law.  Ossoff and Warnock will sue them in a heartbeat if they fuck around.  Besides, I think the GOP Secretary of State and elections officials in GA are probably all out of fucks to give when it comes to the national GOP that has been threatening their lives and those of their families, and accusing them of fraud.

  138. 138.

    Jim Appleton

    Reposted from below.

    *     *     *

    One of many tropes attempts to analyze existential threat by red and blue states. David Pakman, for ex.

    That gets the geography wrong.

    It’s red and blue, but homogeneous.

    Few areas in total, some of them large, are overwhelmingly monopolitical. Most of us have neighbors we unknowingly — sometimes begrudgingly — disagree with.

    So the neighbors most intent on violence are not antifa or BLM, it’s the thugs who mainly consume right-wing bullshit about the rest of us.

    They’re everywhere.

    If there is a process of truth and reconciliation, that is the nut.

    How did these neighbors who are everywhere become radicalized, and what needs to be done.

    This crowd knows a good part of the how, and what’s still unclear That doesn’t take genius.

    It’s our Nazi neighbors who need to be made redundant, politically. Peacefully. But fuck their feelings. Let them take as much time as they need, but fuck their feelings.

  140. 140.

    PJ

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

     

    @Chetan Murthy: I don’t know how “serious” Devereaux is as a historian, but the contemporaneous sources are not many and if you have some spare time you can read them and be just as informed as he is.  Sparta was admired at the time by aristocrats in Athens because it was a ruthless slave state that stamped out any suggestion of revolt by the masses.  As for the military, it wasn’t that they were never defeated, it was that they had the first and, until the rise of the Thebans, only standing army, one that was ready and able to fight almost all of the time.  This gave them an advantage over their neighbors, who were amateurs, part-time soldiers.
    Sparta was no longer a dominant player politically by the time Alexander seized the throne of Macedonia.  He crushed Thebes (and the Athenian army) because he needed a pacified Greece to do his bidding before he invaded Persia, but Sparta remained independent because it was not worth the effort to march all the way down to the Péloponnèse to defeat them when they had not much leverage to interrupt his plans.

  141. 141.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Chetan Murthy:@Enhanced Voting Techniques:   Bu, combine that with sitting atop a class of slaves that they treated *iincredibly* poorly [so poorly it was remarked-upon by contemporaries, so this isn’t some sort of ahistorical judgment]  and there’s not much there to want to emulate.

    To be fair going by the history of Athens and it’s constant purges to the point they took the logical next step and voted on every year, that is good government.

    Devereaux is most brutal in his assessment of the Spartan system of childrearing, comparing it to a system of indoctrination for child soldiers, and clearly demonstrating that it was all about producing unstable homicidal maniacs who would murder helots at the slightest inclination.  And that this is no way to generate a cadre of disciplined, strategic military men.

    Sort of sounds like Southern Plantation owners, doesn’t it?

  143. 143.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Gravenstone:

     Daddy had a smart phone he played with his thumb
    That went with him to DC to join the seditious scum
    And it broadcast all day
    Gave his movements away
    Daddy’s nasty phone betrayed him to the FBI!
    ….
    They’re gonna seize it
    And then they’ll squeeze it
    Til it releases evidence
    They came to hang Mike Pence

    Daddy’s nasty phone betrayed him to the FBI!

  148. 148.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @piratedan: That’s my sense of it too, and mostly in the GOP house.  Cruz and Hawlt seem more like hot air and a bit clueless.

    I also suspect what’s going to come out in the next six months is a lot of stuff that just doesn’t make any sense what so ever with the way the Right has gotten so wrapped up in fringe nuttery I wouldn’t be surprised if the some republicans had a witch trying to cast spells on liberals or planting crystals around the capital to send out conservative vibes.

  150. 150.

    frosty

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s not like FRS or GMRS radios are all that expensive, either. Sure, someone on the same frequency and privacy code can hear you, but what are the odds of that?

    Or, fuck it, buy a few 2-meter Ham transceivers. They’re a lot less expensive than their fucking guns, and they’re already breaking the law, so why not go ahead and transmit without a license?

  151. 151.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Ken: Come to think of it, I saw this on a “Law and Order” once. The DA gave a witness immunity for anything in his testimony, and when he got on the stand he confessed to a bunch of murders.

    Was that the one where they arrested the guy right outside the courtroom where he’d just testified – because the grant of immunity specified “all crimes in New York County” and some of the murders he’d confessed to had been committed outside New York County, which is just Manhattan – ?

    (Nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk…)

  152. 152.

    cain

    @hueyplong:

    So nuts, don’t they watch any movies? I mean that stuff is all there – burner phones, etc etc. I can’t believe these people just use their phones and using a walkie talkie app. It’s beyond bizarre.

  155. 155.

    Feathers

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: And small business owners who have become entrepreneurs because they could never survive an HR department. Many of them luck into a niche (often with inherited capital) where the unfortunate people working for them are able to ignore or work around them and keep the business going. Watch any of those business rescue shows. These assholes blame anyone else for their failures. Tr*mp just offers an extra dollop of moral superiority.

  156. 156.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Sort of sounds like Southern Plantation owners, doesn’t it?

    Deveraux adduces historical evidence that the “coming of age” ritual in which a Spartan adolescent ostensibly goes out and kills a wolf (or whatever) was in fact a ritual in which he goes out and finds and murders a helot.  In short, a gang jumping-in ritual.  I’m not a historian, and he is.  His arguments sound pretty convincing, and ditto when he discusses other military history subjects.

  157. 157.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Kent: The astonishing thing is that he could have just conceded on 11/4 or 11/5 like a normal president, spent the last 2 months doing a MAGA farewell victory tour, do the whole Douglas MacArthur “I shall Return” thing and then retire to MAGA adoration and milk his brand.

    Instead he poured gasoline over all his brand, and set it all on fire and then backed over it with his car to make sure it was really dead.

    He’s got to be scared shitless of something – of course he’s a physical coward. My not-all-that-informed guess is he still has residual pains in the cheekbones fractured when he was thrown down a flight of stairs in Moskva 30-odd years ago, & he knows that once the New York investigation gets close to unraveling the money-laundering he’s been doing for decades, far worse is awaiting him at the hands of the Mafiya enforcers to shut his mouth permanently. Those boychiks don’t fuck around.

  158. 158.

    RaflW

    @aliasofwestgate:

    Mostly because post tour, [veterans] aren’t helped as much as they should be.

    And the poor levels of benefits are because of … Republican budget cutting! So they’re helping to radicalize the people they claim to ‘revere’.

  159. 159.

    mayim

    @a lurker:

    I had to swear an oath to the Constitution for a job as a reference librarian at a <small> city library in Maine.

    Interestingly, I did not have to for a job with the state. The city is quite progressive while the state is a purple-ish blue.

  160. 160.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Ken:

    “When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.”
    — U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 2, clause 4

    IOW House vacancies must be filled by election. After Congressman Elijah Cummings (MD-07) passed away on 17 Oct 2019, his seat was left vacant until a special election was held on April 28, 2020 (after a February 4, 2020 primary) to fill the remainder of the term in the United States House of Representatives for Maryland’s 7th congressional district in the 116th U.S. Congress.

  163. 163.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @frosty: No argument from me. My guess is the arrogant SOB thought he could play the Rooskies with Daddy’s millions, got taught a exquisitely painful lesson that there are some things all the $$$ in the world won’t make better – & by then was in too deep to come up for air.

  164. 164.

    burnspbesq

    @Kent:

    If Dominion goes after Trump, which their lawyers have refused to rule out, they will allege $1.3 billion in damages, and are highly likely to ask for pre-judgment assets.

  165. 165.

    frosty

    @Uncle Cosmo: Yep. I watched the first show of Ozark and it was the same. Mess around to make a few easy bucks, get too deep, and your life goes to shit. I didn’t want to see any more.

  166. 166.

    burnspbesq

    @piratedan:

    If Gohmert were to get tossed out of the House, the Republicans have a deep bench of equally crazy fuckers in that district.

    Be careful what you wish for.

  167. 167.

    Ruckus

    @LadySuzy:

    He is in a bind. His cult, or his money ?

    I’m going with money. The cult didn’t save his ass or give him the next 4 yrs of safety and protection.

    As of Wednesday he’s basically on his own. If Nancy waits exactly the right time to send the impeachment to mitch so that he doesn’t start it and it goes into the next senate, that leaves shitforbrains stewing about all his bullshit coming due, with no way to deal with it. I’d bet that if he sold everything and paid off the loans coming due, he might come out sort of even, but probably not. Which would mean he’s screwed every which way. And the insurrectionists failed him and that failure has left him in a somewhat tight spot, although even if they had actually had some competence he’d still be fucked.

    Sure we are on shaky ground for a bit, but these smarties have done everything except to take out advertising that they were going to overthrow the government, what with the trails and leads they left. Look, trump is not good at anything, he couldn’t even overthrow the government he was “leading” at the time. Even his ego would have been far better off if he’d never run. trump’s learning curve has been below zero for most of his life, but this entire mess was a new low, even for him. I’m not sure but am wondering if impeachment could take away all his after bennies from “being” president? That would be sweet.

  168. 168.

    Ruckus

    @Kent:

    As Omnes says below you, it’s trump. What could possibly be expected of him other than fucking up? And very likely in the worst way possible. Really, only because this is the most insane thing, would anyone have thought that he’d try to pull this off. He must be way the hell out in front of his skis. Sure his ego is bigger than all outdoors but he thought HE could pull this off? He could have retired and got his pension and tongue baths from his supporters, but he goes this way. Always the wrong thing, at the wrong time, in the wrong way and always badly attempted.

  170. 170.

    Ian

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Lindsey Graham suggests that George Washington may face a post-presidential impeached for owning slaves. “where does this stop?” he tells Hannity.

    Not a crime at the time

     impeach Obama now over Benghazi.

    How many investigations did they do?  They still didn’t find a crime.

    Well, what does Mr Graham think is acceptable/impeachable?  As far as I can tell, the only red line in the sand is blowjobs.

  171. 171.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @HumboldtBlue: I agree.  What a find

    ETA: I knew the movie “300” was full of shit but interesting to find out how, exacctly.

  173. 173.

    Gvg

    @piratedan: actually I have been expecting lots of arrests at least since mid Obama’s term. What I saw especially after Citizens United seemed to me to be implying major financial laws being broken by members of Congress. And I have also thought republicans in Congress had devolved in intelligence since early in Bush’s term, that they had purged all their cynical smart manipulators and only had true believers left because they were several generations into just manipulating the rubes. This is aside from actual stupid treason, it’s where I think the GOP is.

    States have different laws about how they replace an ousted or resigned Congressperson, so you have to know which state it is to know what can happen. Often it’s up to the Governor. Also they don’t have to resign if in jail for ordinary crimes but I think they can’t vote. Not sure about the 14th amendment. I hadn’t heard about that possibility before this week.

  174. 174.

    Sebastian

    @PJ:

    Yes it does and the record sucks. They were really good at beating up weaker opponents but got their asses kicked regularly.

    They were VERY good at PR.

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