It looks like there’s some discussion in the previous comments on masks. I’m going to add my two cents here, but you might want to look at the comments for the last post.
I’m only going to talk about my experience with N95 and KN95 masks.
This is a medical grade 3M Medline N95 mask that I wore when caring for my parents in the Dakotas (it was a gift from a friend of theirs). Things to note are the foam on the nosepiece, the stiff construction of the mask to ensure that as much of the mask surface is involved in filtration as possible, the two plastic bands that go over the head and hold the mask very tightly against the face, and the substantial metal band at the nose. It is also quite uncomfortable to wear for long periods of time because of the force with which the mask is pushed onto your face. Also, I only had a couple, so this mask has almost certainly lost some of its filtration ability. I don’t wear it anymore.
This is a pretty typical KN95 mask with earloops, purchased from Amazon. KN95 is the Chinese standard for N95 masks. The FDA has approved certain of these masks for use under emergency orders during COVID-19. Appendix A at this link will give you a list of manufacturers certified by the FDA. This particular mask was purchased in a lot of 20 from Amazon, and it claims to be on the FDA list, but there was no way to make sure it was. It uses earloops, which are more convenient than a headband but not as effective. The nosepiece metal is weaker than the N95 above, it has no seal around the nose other than the metal, and it is tough on my ears. But, I wear it as my go to mask because it seals pretty well and I have a fair number of them. It has less of an effective seal as the N95 above, but it is more comfortable.
This KN95 has headloops and is pretty definitely on the FDA list. I purchased it from a company called BonaFideMasks. It took them 3 weeks to deliver it in December. It came with a seal with scrape-off coating that had a code underneath. There was a QR code on the seal — by scanning it with my phone I was directed to the manufacturer website and told that the mask was one of theirs. Two important points: First, the mask fits almost as well as the N95. Second, my wife, who has a small face and for whom the other KN95 doesn’t fit well at all, finds that this mask seals pretty well. This is the one I’d recommend if you’re in the market for an “almost as good as an N95” mask, because the headloops are much more effective than earloops.
This is a PAPR. A nurse who trained with this and N95s say this is far superior and you can actually work a full shift without discomfort. I haven’t seen any of these in the grocery store, yet.
raven
So, if we’ve been wearing regular over the counter masks and have not gotten the virus, then taken vaccine then what?
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@raven: Until you’ve hit 2 weeks after the 2nd vaccination, I’d wear a KN95. I think you wear a cloth or disposable surgical mask in case you have an asymptomatic infection 2 weeks after 2nd dose.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/12/956051995/why-you-should-still-wear-a-mask-and-avoid-crowds-after-getting-the-covid-19-vac
Spanky
@raven: The gist of the last thread is that the new variants of COVID-19 make it more easy to contract, so up your mask game. A lot of comments revolved around the KN-95 and how it differs from the N95. Bottom line is that it can be pretty good, but face sealing is the biggest issue, as is quality control.
Right now I’m at a loss as to say which of the zillion KN95s out there are worth it.
Just Some Fuckhead
I used the first mask you illustrated until I ran out of them. I bought them to refinish the floors before the pandemic hit. Then I switched to the second mask you illustrated. My company supplies those for the immunocompromised. Even with a mask, my strategy is to not breathe when I’m around others.
arrieve
Thanks — I ordered some of the KN95 with the headloops. The ones I have now are only earloops, which I find very uncomfortable.
I still use the double-layer cotton masks I sewed early on when I’m accepting deliveries, but they clearly aren’t good enough for real exposure any more.
laura
Hoisted from below
I wear this mask because my employer provided them, and now that I’m retired, I buy from amazon – cheaper when bought in bulk:
https://airqueen.com
Cant say enough good things about them, but here’s a few: extremely light weight and easy breathing, excellent design and fit – it doesn’t touch the mouth or nose, very close fit /good seal on all sides, water proof and can be sanitized up to 10 x by spritzing with 70% alcohol. When I grocery shop, I add a cloth mask over and glasses or clear shop google and cotton gloves. I hope this is helpful information.
And Bill Nye Science Guy likes it too!
https://youtu.be/YoX7WLaeUV4
raven
@Spanky:
I’m sorry but I don’t see how all this will do anything but confuse people. This mask, that mask, not this is one this better. . . no wonder people say fuck it.
Just Some Fuckhead
@raven: I’m pretty sure that’s not why people are saying “Fuck it”.
arrieve
For some reason, the fact that almost a year into this we’re still sharing tips on which masks to buy is incredibly depressing. On the other hand, you can actually buy masks now.
I even saw Lysol spray at the grocery store last week — definitely the first time since all this began. But when I looked again yesterday it was all gone.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@raven:
Then those people are irresponsible
raven
@Just Some Fuckhead: So that’s what you think
Another Scott
I agree with this post, MM.
Here’s what I just posted downstairs:
Many people have strong opinions about various types of masks. But all of the objective evaluation of them make the point that they have to seal properly or they lose most of their effectiveness. (I’ve used half-face cartridge respirators at work and have a couple of old (unused) 3M N-95 masks that I’ve been saving for emergencies (e.g. if J or I get infected).)
Here’s a CDC/NIOSH test report on the AirQueen masks mentioned above (7 page .pdf)
Understand what you’re getting and the limitations. Note that no real N95 (or effective N95 equivalents) have ear-loops.
Personally, I have not found a way to get paper surgeon’s masks to fit my face well. What has worked best for me are 3-layer cloth masks from Etsy with some aluminum-copper wire inserted in a just-large-enough small hole and bent to match my nose. (Of course, the hole is an infiltration point…)
YMMV!!
tl;dr – find a mask that fits your particular face well. That’s the most important thing (after avoiding people in confined spaces).
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That’ll get em.
zzyzx
I plan to stick with the cloth masks but I don’t go anywhere other than grocery stores (usually at like 6 AM on Sunday morning) and I’m in and out of there in 5 minutes. I reserve my right to change my mind as conditions warrant.
Spanky
@arrieve:
Yeah, that this still needs driven home is also depressing, but totally expected with the Trump administration actively trying to kill us.
Just Some Fuckhead
@raven: I’ll trust my “think” over anything you come up with. Irritability isn’t actually a thought process.
BretH
We have a good number of these – enough so we’re not tempted to re-use before washing:
https://www.dnamasksandmore.com/collections/new/products/5-0-dna-black-chrome-premium-collection-elastic-or-ties
They are comfortable and fit well, but not sure of their claim of ASTM F2100-11 vs N95. But there’s info here:
https://www.infectioncontrolproducts.com/blogs/news-and-promotions/astm-levels-and-their-importance-to-your-mask-selections
raven
@Another Scott: Oh good, I just ordered some.
Sayne
Another point: if you have a painter’s mask or something like that, you can get filters for them that are better than N95s… but those aren’t ideal for this situation.
I have a 3M half-face painter’s mask with removable filters I got at Home Depot. With it I have a pack of their “Organic Vapor” filters which are P100 standard. P100 filters are rated to filter 99.97% (3 standard deviations) of particulate down to 0.3 microns in size (like N100 filters, but the P means they’re oil resistant). N95s are rated to filter 95% (2 standard deviations) of particles at 0.3 micros. The difference between an N95 and an N (or P) 100 mask might not sound a like lot, but the increase of an entire standard deviation is a marked improvement in filtration for the user if worn correctly.
BUT — those painter’s masks do NOT filter your exhalation, meaning you could potentially be a hazard to everyone around you. Which defeats the purpose of wearing masks.
Also you could have a mask that’s improperly sized or just being worn incorrectly with a bad seal. Due to the physics of how a valved negative-pressure mask like that works, a broken seal means much of the air will leak in through the gap and bypass the filters. Which is obviously bad.
germy
Lately I’ve been seeing TV commercials for a weird plastic thing you’re supposed to put under your mask. I forget what they call it. It’s supposed to create space between your face and mask, for added comfort.
The damn thing doesn’t look safe to me, but who knows. I won’t be buying it.
My wife sewed a whole bunch of two-layer cloth masks. That’s what I wear when I go shopping.
raven
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Well good for you.
The Moar You Know
You can look it up to see if it IS on the FDA list – not hard – but you’ve got to trust the seller to not be selling fakes, and given my experience with counterfeit goods on Amazon – I’m not even talking masks here – the odds are real high it’s fake.
Roger Moore
@raven:
Masks are a legitimately difficult issue because the quality isn’t something you can easily judge for yourself; you really need a proper lab test. And even the lab tests are under ideal circumstances, because a mask that doesn’t fit perfectly is much less effective.
My employer has been encouraging everyone who doesn’t work in patient care areas to wear cloth masks, though they do offer surgical-style masks to anyone who wants them. Even in patient care areas the N95 masks are limited to contact with known positive patients and especially risky procedures. This is probably a supply-chain issue, and they would probably provide N95s if they had a big enough to go around. Of course right now the people in patient care areas have mostly gotten their second vaccination, and even those of us who don’t have patient contact have gotten our first.
gvg
My father was able to find some from the FDA list. there were only 5 companies when he bought a while ago. The inferior KN’s may be mostly counterfeit which we are unable to confirm.
If you have to use cloth masks, testing recommends tightly woven cotton between 600 and 800 thread count. Not some other material and not knitted. Stretchy fabric is bad because it means the holes between threads sometimes get bigger. Synthetic fibers and silk for instance are too smooth. Cotton thread is fuzzy and that is why they think Cotton is so much better in tests.
I was unable to know the thread count of cotton material online from fabric stores and I don’t think they previously had any reason to track that but what I tried first didn’t seem that tight. I ended up buying a 725 thread count flat sheet and cutting it up. It was on sale. It looks like I am requested to do a new batch this weekend as my mother is gently hinting all of hers are getting grubby. She doesn’t sew. I keep trying to improve them. This time I am aiming for a tighter seal.
Family tries not to go out at all, but it is difficult. There is some socializing at a distance outside and that is where the masks get used. Parents got their first shot. I don’t expect mine for quite awhile. No idea when my nephew can get one.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@laura:
Hmm. I wonder if it could be sanitized with UV light without destroying the fibers
Bill K
@germy: We’ve tried those. The problem is your mask is not designed to fit with it, so it slips and you are fussing with it all day. I’ve given up on them.
The Moar You Know
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): no, they’re actually not. They’re at the end of their rope. Which I now get, because I’m there too.
I know about masks only from working a long time in an industry where they were mandatory. N95s for the guys out in the shop sanding, full spacesuit and PAPR for me in the spray booth. There’s a lot to them. Asking people who don’t use them for a living to understand the differences is a waste of time. The government needs to impose the DPA and start getting N95 masks out to every citizen and resident of the United States.
That ain’t gonna happen either, but it’s what needs to.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Another Scott:
So basically that Air Queen company are liars? Damn
germy
So a few weeks ago I was out of cat food.
I didn’t want to go to our local supermarket, because I had an experience with a guy stocking shelves with his bandana down around his neck. The employees wear loose bandanas, and pull them down when they think no one is around. Usually if they see a customer approach, they’ll pull their bandanas up again. The shelf stocker saw me rolling my cart up his aisle, but didn’t bother pulling his mask up. He pissed me off. And it made me not want to give them my $$.
So I decided to visit a pet supply place. I figured I’d be in and out, grab a bunch of cat food and be done with it.
So I pull into the parking lot, and I see the “MASKS REQUIRED” sign on the door. Good. But then I see through the big windows, two employees and the manager. No masks. I put mine on, and when they saw me enter the store, they put theirs on, too.
I getting tired of this. I’m at the point where I’m just going to have stuff delivered. Store employees around here think masks are only necessary if a customer is actually in the store. That’s not how it works.
The Moar You Know
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): UV-C is the only one that sanitizes. UV-A, B and C all destroy plastics almost as efficiently as solvents. Don’t use UV on masks.
Just Some Fuckhead
My cousin crochets gorgeous masks like these
gvg
@germy: I have 3 kinds. They are great. Everyones face is different and you have to try different ones to see what works. They simply keep the cloth from sucking back over your airways when you inhale making you feel like you are suffocating yourself. Plastic or silicone facemask brackets or “lipstick guards” in a google search to get fewer not what you wanted. You just stick them under the mask you are wearing, so the bracket is held in place by the mask. The first one I tried helped breathing but messed up my mask seal. Second one worked great (for me). Family trying them get different results with different types so no one is best for everyone.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
I’m a this mask/that mask guy (as raven posted). I don’t go out very much. I bought 3 cloth masks from an etsy maker with fancy elastic bands (with the same color material around them) that go around the back of the head. Two for me, one for my wife. It has a pouch to insert your own filter. Which I had planned to do–have some HEPA filter vacuum bag thing around here somewhere–but was ultimately too lazy to do that. (I checked and the maker no longer is making these masks, but of course there are many others)
I’ve bought two types of the plastic inserts that go around one’s mouth to make it easier to talk (learned about these here–thanks jackals!). My wife loves these since she works 3 times a day talking to customers in person. We are both virus free, waiting to be called for the magic vaccine.
Another Scott
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I didn’t say they were liars. I’m saying, do your research and understand what you’re getting.
Cheers,
Scott.
Alison Rose
Thanks for this–just ordered a pack of the KN95 from BonaFideMasks for my parents, since my mom is still going to the grocery store twice a week. I’ve tried to encourage her to use Instacart but she was frustrated with not being able to find certain items on the app, and also doesn’t like the idea of someone else picking out the produce and such…which I can understand. I’ve been using grocery delivery since quarantine started, and for the most part it’s great, but some of the folks just do not seem to understand…………well, anything.
How long can you use a KN95 mask for? Are they washable? I ordered them a case of 10, but it’s only my mom who goes into the store, my dad waits in the car.
Just Some Fuckhead
We had our first Covid-positive case at work so I’ve been scrambling around all week trying to make alternative work arrangements for a dozen people. It’s very frustrating dealing with the entitlement of people who think they should be able to work from anywhere in a snap. I keep telling them it’s a process, not a light switch. Add to that they are all computer-illiterate and this is why I drink.
gvg
@germy: Target and grocery store curbside. Petsmart will do it too. I have been in a store 3 times since March. twice to pick up hydrocodene due to infected teeth this summer and one time near Christmas. Very early and empty. Curbside protects you and the clerks. they can put it in the trunk.
Alison Rose
@Just Some Fuckhead: I’m…….confused? They’re pretty but what is the point of them?
White & Gold Purgatorian
I’ve bought several different kn95 masks over the pandemic and one major variant seems to be the “beefiness” of the metal nose piece, which is impossible to judge before purchase. The most recent ones we got are pretty flimsy and don’t hold the shape of my nose very well. Several times I’ve put a tight fitting stretch cotton mask over the kn95 and it seems to hold the edges down better. I went shopping yesterday morning — my strategy is to get to the store just after opening when the air is presumably cleaner — and my glasses fogged terribly at the first store where I only wore the kn95. At the second store I added the cotton mask and had no fogging at all. Maybe the cotton was absorbing the moisture, but I think it also improved the fit. Doubling up on masks is harder on the ears, though. I’m going to try some of those kn95 masks with headbands instead of ear bands.
Awhile back there was a study of mask effectiveness that found putting a piece of nylon stocking over even a surgical mask improved the effectiveness a great deal by pressing the edges of the mask down firmly.
JoyceH
@The Moar You Know:
What needs to happen, IMO, is the development of a comfortable, reusable mask that protects the wearer as much as it protects others from the wearer.
I think if such a thing existed, there would be a lot fewer anti-maskers, down to the people who genuinely believe the virus is a hoax. It’s the concept of wearing a mask to protect others who are wearing their mask to protect you that irks a lot of these people – isn’t that… communism?
And frankly, I’d like such a mask and not have to rely on the chance met stranger on the street to be courteous enough not to kill me.
I wear several layer cloth masks with ear loops, and looking in the mirror, they seem to fit the sides of my face better than a lot of the masks I see nurses wearing on television. The only issue is around the nose, but I just bought some little anti-fog inserts that not only keep my glasses from fogging, they also obviously eliminate that little air gap on the sides of the nose. They’re a soft plastic with sort of membrane chambers that catch the exhalation and plug the gap.
I only go out about every other week, but I’ve started wearing masks in the house for tasks like dusting and cat brushing, and these new inserts really make a difference with the fogging issue.
VeniceRiley
Having choices is a good thing. Westerners in general and Americans in particular, are choice-o-philes. I fully expect that vaccine hesitance will diminish substantially when there are more choices beyond “Take mRNA or refuse.” I just have a feeling when the list is 4 or five that hesitant people will feel empowered beyond the do/don’t.
One type of cereal just feels Soviet.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Moar You Know:
We’re going to have a new president in less than a week. What makes you think the Biden admin wouldn’t do something like this?
While I sympathize, saying “fuck it!” and disregarding public health measures is not the answer (which I know you’re not saying, but seems to be something people are increasingly doing)
Liam Yore
For the record: PAPRs suck. They are so loud you can’t hear a thing (forget about talking to your patients, let alone auscultating them), and the visors fog constantly. Unless I’m intubating or doing some high risk procedure, I stick with my N95 and goggles or a face shield.
Spanky
@The Moar You Know:
Well, let’s see what happens after next Wednesday.
raven
@Roger Moore: I’ve spent the better part of today trying to help people get in the goddamn registration system for the vaccine. I’m sure I need to go back and refer then to this thread so they can feel even more helpless.
raven
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Ah no biggie, I just dropped 50 on them.
raven
@Liam Yore: But but the internet experts say. . .
JoyceH
@VeniceRiley:
I dunno – it’s the number of vaccines that seem unusual to me. Just think, every year people ask you, “Did you get your flu shot?”, and nobody asks, “Which one?”
patrick II
@Sayne:
I think you can just cover the exhalation port which forces exhale through the filters, making it safer for everyone involved.
VeniceRiley
@raven: Maybe that’s why Biden is temporarily bringing on for Covid task force that guy who fixed the ACA after the website debacle.
raven
@Just Some Fuckhead: And here I thought you were just some fuckhead.
Spanish Moss
Thanks for the info! We have been using the Powecom KN95 masks with ear loops for a few weeks now. I didn’t know they had a headband version, I just ordered some. I find them more comfortable than the cloth masks I was wearing before. Even though I can tell it is harder to pull air through them, the net effect is that it is easier to breathe because the stiff shape prevents it from getting so close to my nose and mouth. And because of that it doesn’t get damp when I talk, etc.
Spanky
@Liam Yore:
Sounds like you’re running it backwards.
I’ll see myself out.
wvng
A number of the doctors on TV recommend the three ply disposable masks with an internal wire that allows you to pinch it around the nose, rather than any interation of the cloth masks, so that is what I have been using during my rare foray into grocery stores at 0600. .
raven
@VeniceRiley: The idea that people in rural Georgia are going to navigate a website is ridiculous.
Gretchen
@Just Some Fuckhead: they’re pretty but they’re not masks.
Gravenstone
For people who find ear loops uncomfortable or unmanageable (I am in the latter, because ear loops alone tend to push the upper edge of a mask into my right eye), I strongly recommend looking for ear guards/helpers. These are the plastic strips that go across the back of your head or neck that allow you to hook the ear loops over them. You can somewhat customize your fit with them as well, since most offer a range or attachment points so you can adjust the tension of the mask. I can wear our company provided surgical masks for my entire shift (absent a rest at lunch break) without much problem.
Cheryl Rofer
I have pretty much everything delivered. I pick up a prescription in the parking lot once a month. I may get some seed curbside from Wild Birds Unlimited in another week or two.
When I use a mask, I’m using a paper mask under a cloth mask. The ear elastics are inconvenient for me, although I use them for quick and distant interactions. I’ve also bought clips for ear elastics that go around the back of my head.
ETA: What Gravenstone said. I’ve gotten my ear savers from The Cat Ball.
cckids
@raven: FWIW, I’ve been working in a Seattle-area Fred Myers grocery store since the beginning of COVID; after a couple of times with cloth masks, I’ve just switched to a regular surgical mask with earloops. I’m there 20+ hours a week, with so. many. people. , and no infection yet. And I work in self-check-out, where there are always crowds and not enough social distancing AT ALL.
My nurse sister recommended putting a band-aid at the top of the nose (over the metal strip) to help with sealing and get less fogging of my glasses. I find the surgical masks way more comfortable, and people can generally hear me through them.
Sure Lurkalot
I make masks..I started with 2 layer tightly woven cotton. Then a filter pocket and some polypropylene. Now with the scary variants, I interface one layer of the cotton and sew in a polypropylene or poly/spandex chiffon in between the 2 cotton layers. So, four layers.
The ear loops don’t work for me but they do for some people I’ve made masks for. I thread a long shoelace through the channels with a bead to tighten…I’d post a picture but alas, one can’t. That with a wire nose piece creates a good fit for me and others like it too.
I in-house shopped from June until October. Now deliveries and curbside. Very infrequent less than 2 minutes indoors to say drop off UPS parcel. I wear my mask when I pop the trunk of my sedan. I hope this is all enough!
zzyzx
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I think it’s less fuck it (for me at least) and more that I just don’t have the mental energy right now to deal with another thing on top of everything else I’m doing with Corona.
It takes a lot of my energy to stay home all the time in a usually empty house and not meet up with others. I’m going to focus on that.
raven
Well gotta get ready for our weekly outdoor meal with our friends. Pray for us if you believe in that mess.
Julia
There is also info coming out about the efficacy of double masking. I wear a standard paper surgical mask with a cloth mask over it, it fits better and feels much more secure. I was afraid of not being able to breathe, but honestly, it isn’t any more difficult than with just one mask.
raven
@cckids: That’s what I’m wearing even though my wife has made tons on cloth masks. for us and friends. I also wear my glasses on a lanyard and just pop them up if I need them in the store.
Gravenstone
@arrieve: I miss the classic Lysol (active ingredient o-phenylphenol), not this new fangled reformulated stuff.
CCL
Early on in March and April, for a nursing home in desperate need, I made three-layer masks with a pouch for a filter (Hepa) using a pattern developed by Unity Hospitals (the Olson mask). For Better Half and myself, I could fit them closely – adding pleats at the side.
For the nose piece, I stitched a channel and had the idea to insert the flexible metal tab used to roll up coffee bags -the ones that are glued to the top. These work like a charm, fitting the top closely over the nose and top of the cheek. My glasses did not fog up. I can remove the tab piece when I wash the masks. When I worked the polls, I bought KN95 masks and had an old un-used N95 mask that Better Half had left over from painting days. I also wore a face shield.
That coffee bag tab made the difference for us. We rarely go out, but these have worked well for us when we do – and when we are in proximity of others in a closed space, we can double with the KN95s – earloop variety.
oldster
I followed your trajectory as well:
started the pandemic wearing a cod-piece style N95 with foam nosepiece and head straps. Very uncomfortable, hard to put on and off, esp. with any kind of hat/bike helmet, etc.
Now use a coffee-filter style KN95 with narrow metal strip over the nose and ear-loops.
One trick for getting better fit over the nose:
The masks come very tightly creased in half, so that the metal foil strip is folded sharply in half. If you pull that over the bridge of your nose, there will be an air-gap between the triangle of the metal, and the rounded bridge of your nose.
So, the first thing that I do with a new mask is to flatten out the crease in the metal strip entirely. Then, I mold it over the diameter of my pinkie, which is just about the diameter of the bridge of my nose.
This provides a much better seal across the top of my nose.
I can tell I have a good seal, because when I breathe in, the sides of the coffee-filter collapse against my cheeks.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Moar You Know:
Didn’t know that. I do have a UV-C light sanitizer I got for Christmas and use it every day on my phone. I always wipe it with Chlorox wipes first just to be sure
Brachiator
FYI: In Los Angeles, Covid cases in supermarkets are going up.
Jay
I wear masks made by Pillar Heights. Two layer cloth, bamboo and cotton, 1000 thread count. Copper nose bridge, behind the head elastics with a toggle, HEPA filter insert.
The Moar You Know
@Liam Yore: I have no idea what kind you’re using but I wore one for four years straight, 6-7 days a week, and experienced none of that. It was the best air I ever breathed and the fan/filter and battery pack were all on a belt, with a hose to my helmet. Not noiseless but I could easily carry on a conversation.
LuciaMia
Even after youre fully vaccinated, have they determined whether you can still carry and transmit the virus?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Roger Moore: This is what my wife’s hospital is doing too (she just got the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine this morning!) – 3 layer surgical masks unless you’re in the clinic where they’re sending all the Covid-likely cases. If you work in the Covid clinic you’re in full PPE, Wife’s had two known exposures despite the screening, and who knows how many unknown ones.
The crazy thing is that they don’t give staff a supply of those 3 ply masks to bring home…she wears one of the collection of cloth masks we have into work and then the front desk nurse gives her her one surgical mask for the day. Because there’s of course no way she could be exposed before she hits the front desk, right?
germy
Raven
@LuciaMia: I think you can.
Just Some Fuckhead
@LuciaMia: Nope. They don’t even know how long the vaccine is effective.
Kelly
Oregon has reached it goal of 12,000 vaccinations a day. If vaccine supplies hold out. So with a population of four and a quarter million we’ll all have both our shots just after Christmas 2022.
So glad Democrats are getting a chance to fix this mess. Among many messes.
sam
@Another Scott: that’s my understanding as well. I handmade my own masks in the spring – double layered cotton plus multiple pleats (instructions are the first post on my site), but the most important thing is that because I made them myself, I figured out exactly how to cut/fold/sew them so that they’re basically molded to my face.
That being said, I did just order a batch of both disposable medical masks and KN95 masks to wear UNDER my pretty cloth masks in various situations (I.e., where I might have to sit on transit or go to a store), just for the extra protection with the new strain.
Cacti
My Republican father in law is in the hospital now, on the edge of death from Covid complications, because he listened to Trump, disregarded the danger, and got together with the extended family for a super spreader New Year’s celebration.
Mother fuck Donald fucking Trump and his cult of stupidity and death.
zzyzx
@Alison Rose:
I believe they exist so people can say, “SEE! I’M WEARING A MASK!!!!” without actually stopping covid.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Gravenstone: I jerry rigged something – just unbent a paper clip into an S clip and loop the earloops around each U of the S. Gotta bend the ends of the each U slightly away from the neck to keep them from digging in. Sometimes those ends get a bit snagged on my watch cap but not very often. I don’t know if my ears are “wimpy” but I have issues with the loops slipping off them and that was my DIY solution.
cain
It seems I can cosplay the Rebel Alliance with that PAPR one. Could make a new star wars movie!
rjnerd
PAPR As a bearded individual, I have mask issues, and investigated PAPR. I discovered 3 things.
I somewhat justified it to myself as I haven’t been able to do some things (like spray painting) because I haven’t been able to get a great seal with a conventional respirator, and thus will have a use for it post pandemic.
Reminds me of the robot in forbidden planet…
JoyceH
@germy:
Do. it! I get all my pet supplies from Amazon or Chewy. I’m probably bankrupting Amazon with all the Prime free delivery.
My local grocery store just started curbside pickup about a month ago and I’m a total convert. I may never go inside a store again.
Brachiator
@Cacti:
I am very sorry to hear about your father-in-law.
Take care.
The Moar You Know
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Your sanitizer is not UV-C. UV-C will give you skin burns within a few seconds and “welder’s flash” if you so much as peek at the light, which feels like sand in your eye – it’s agonizing.
“UV-C sterilizers” are another item going around the internet where they are almost 100% fake, because nobody knows how to test if it’s actually putting out UV-C or not; the simplest method is to put a piece of tape around a green banana, expose that to the lamp for five minutes, and then pull off the tape. If there is not a big brown area where the lamp was shining (think sunburn) and a green stripe where you put the tape, it is fake.
The only place I know where you can get real UV-C lamps is at a pool supply store. And they are really dangerous if you don’t know how to use them safely, and have the required UV-C proof eye protection.
patrick II
@zzyzx:
A maskerade.
WaterGirl
@zzyzx: I believe those people are stupid, arrogant, irresponsible, assholes.
zzyzx
@patrick II: I hope your account is banned for that.
…mainly because I’m envious that I didn’t come up with it first.
The Moar You Know
@LuciaMia: no. That may not be known for a few years.
Eunicecycle
About a week ago my husband got 4 paper masks in the mail from the Ohio Department of Health. I didn’t get any. Did any other Ohioans here get these? I haven’t heard of anyone else who got them. Just thought it was kind of odd.
Han
@Another Scott: You can get adhesive nose bridge strips for cloth masks so you don’t have to puncture with a wire. They’re disposable, so just pull them off before you wash them. Or not, as my wife has left several on that I missed when doing laundry. 3M has several options available, including padded ones.
debbie
@Another Scott:
You can buy adhesive nose wires (something like this) to use with cloth masks. They worked very well for me until it got very cold and fogging up became a problem.
JoyceH
@The Moar You Know:
I was thinking about it the other day, and it occurred to me that even if I were fully vaccinated and we knew that vaccinations made you perfectly safe from infecting other people, I’d still want to wear a mask when out in public until the pandemic is officially over. Because I wouldn’t want to be mistaken for a Republican.
laura
@Another Scott: NIOSH requires an over/around the head for fit, but N95 can be NIOSH certified – all NIOSH is N95 but not all N95 are NIOSH. The Air Queen is not NIOSH certified- and that’s why my employer was able to get them early last spring. I’m still happy with them because the fit is so good, the ear loops are comfortable and the side wings conform to the face without leakage. 90% to 97% filtration on average is good enough for me to feel safe-ish and sometimes I forget I’m wearing it.
Another Scott
@Han: I looked into the adhesive metal strips, and bought some from Amazon, before I tried the Al-Cu wire. The strip metal was barely thicker than aluminum foil and was pretty-much worthless. Maybe I picked the wrong kind; maybe they changed it after getting/paying for enough good reviews. Dunno.
It’s criminal that N95 masks aren’t everywhere in the USA by now. They should be given out like dishes and books were at gas stations in the ’60s…
Grrr…
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@rjnerd: Robbie
raven
@laura: So now I’m glad??? My neck can’t take this.
debbie
@Alison Rose:
They are not washable.
Alison Rose
@zzyzx: Oy.
grandmaBear
@Eunicecycle: we got two packages, one for me and one for a former resident who moved to Oregon. They’re for seniors I believe.
eta: also got 3 cloth ones from my health insurer a few months ago,
rjnerd
One other thing UWisc has what they call a mask fit aid. they are made from a bit of elastic, and a foam nursery tie. You can make one in a few minutes, for about a dimes worth of materials. https://making.engr.wisc.edu/mask-fitter/
cckids
@Cacti:
Amen. My non-Trumpist father-in-law died a week ago today; not Covid, colon cancer. My husband is having to deal with his two incredibly right-wing sisters being entire assholes at such a time – demanding to see the death certificate “to be sure they don’t say he died of covid – you know, hospitals get an extra $40K if they say “covid”; my MIL (a huge Biden fan) can’t watch MSNBC or really any TV news because its not Fox, and they won’t just shut up and leave her in peace for half an hour, the riot at the Capital was “fake news”; it goes on and on. I cannot fathom putting politics first at such a time. What awful people.
Yes. Forever and ever, amen.
Amir Khalid
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Those crochet masks are fine as long as you don’t mind being totally unprotected.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Cacti: That really sucks and I’m sorry you’re going through that. The kids are coming over tomorrow for a late Xmas and I’m a little nervous. It’s just three add’l people and they don’t have Covid and we don’t have Covid but my daughter is pregnant with twins and I’d lose my mind if I thought we gave her Covid. Even though we don’t have Covid. That we know of.
Just Some Fuckhead
@cckids: My Trump-loving mother died end of March from a host of chronic illnesses but I know in my heart she’d be dead by now of Covid had she lived.
cckids
@Amir Khalid: I think maybe they are meant as a decorative cover over a real mask. We have several people at the store (the young’uns who always look great), who have sheer, sparkly “masks” they wear over useful ones. So, fashion.
I’m old now, I cannot be bothered, but I appreciate the effort!
drylake
Just to break in here with a slightly off-thread public service message: yesterday Kaiser (at least NorCal Kaiser) opened up for reservations for COVID vaccine injections; the number to call is 1-866-454-8855. I was lucky to get through at about 9 am, and was put on hold for 2.5 hours. Being over 65 I was able to secure an appointment, but there seemed to be a trick: they asked my first choice location, to which I responded “Oakland,” only to be told all gone; then she told me you have two more choices, which threw me for a bit of a loop, as I couldn’t remember offhand where the nearest alternative Kaisers were (she didn’t know either, as she was in a call center out of state). So I guessed San Leandro, only to be told they were also out; I next threw out Dublin (not being sure whether the Kaiser I had driven by on 580 was in Dublin or Livermore), then corrected to Livermore, and the woman told me, yes there was a Kaiser in Dublin, and mirabile dictu, they did have an opening in ten days, at 7:05 am, which I grabbed. What I don’t know if the three choices are like a game show, and once you’ve tried them all and they’re all booked you are sol, so before calling look up all the Kaisers nearby so you’ll be ready for the quiz.
Baud
@cckids:
How?
cckids
@Just Some Fuckhead: My FIL probably would have lived longer if not for Covid, too. The cancer didn’t actually kill him; he was in an overcrowded hospital, vomited and aspirated, causing a heart attack. In normal times, a family member would have been with him, able to get help.
On the other hand, terrible though that is, treatment for late-stage colon cancer, at 91 years old, is no minor matter, so I’m torn. Mostly grieving the loss of a wicked sense of humor, a huge sense of pride and hope in his grandchildren, a loving partner to a spouse of 68 years. Nobody should die alone.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: It’s the crocheted condoms you really have to worry about.
kindness
I work in a hospital and use an N95 mask when I walk around the building. I cut the bottom band off and just use the top band. It still fits my face snugly. No unfiltered air breathing in or out. It’s much easier to wear that way.
cckids
@Baud: Her daughters will not stop with their commentary, about how fake anything non-Fox is. MIL does not do confrontations with her kids. Essentially, they are bullying her into submission. My husband has been told to not intervene, to keep the peace.
Appeasing the oppressors, writ small.
dc
@laura: How many times can you wear one before having to discard? Or better, how many hours of wear before they lose effectiveness?
cckids
Um, ow.
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): If you want to sanitize a mask, you can just wait a day or two, and time will do it for you. I have a few in rotation. At any rate, surface transmission is extremely unlikely, so you probably don’t need to be going nuts with bleach wipes on your phone and whatever (soap and water is plenty–soap rips the virus apart).
I bought some actual medical procedure masks that arrive today, looking forward to having something in between cloth and an N95.
WaterGirl
@Just Some Fuckhead: unless you have all been tested in the last couple of days, and haven’t gone anywhere since, that seems like a big risk.
Matt McIrvin
We’ve replaced nearly all of our grocery shopping with a combination of Instacart delivery from BJ’s and curbside runs to Target (since the grocery chains’ delivery services are too slammed to use, or were the last I tried them). But my spouse does make an occasional short run to Butcher Boy.
Chetan Murthy
@raven:
IIRC there’s some guy named Mayhew who’s written on the related situation in health insurance ….. What can we do? Unregulated markets, guys out to make a quick buck, etc, etc. A wag might say that it’s sort of the mask-supply equivalent of the market in illicit mail-order drugs. Sometimes you get heroin, sometimes you get whale tranquilizer. Sometimes you get arsenic.
Major Major Major Major
@raven:
Not to pile on, but… humans deal with new information all the time, often without their heads exploding.
Gravenstone
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t advise soap and water for the phone. //
Jay
@Gravenstone:
just a quick cycle through the dishwasher?
Major Major Major Major
@Gravenstone: Many (most?) smartphones these days are immersion-proof up to some number of feet. Rubbing some suds on them is not going to do anything worse than rubbing some bleach on them. Obviously google your model first. I’ve dropped my iPhone in the sink a number of times and regularly washed it for a year now.
germy
@Chetan Murthy:
I could use some whale tranquilizer about now.
rikyrah
Thank you for the information.
I have to get over the head masks. The ear loop ones don’t do me any good. I am on Etsy every other payday, trying out new over the head masks.
cckids
Some cannot; it’s the definition of what makes a conservative.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
We use cloth masks sewn by my wife. They aren’t N-95 obviously, but what we read early on is that if you can’t see through the cloth, and especially if you put a filter between the layers, they are pretty effective.
At any rate my understanding is that the primary benefit of mask-wearing comes from masks being worn by Covid-positive individuals, to prevent spreading of virus-carrying droplets. If you’re in the presence of an unmasked Covidiot spreading their disease, a mask isn’t much help.
The real precaution for us is in limiting human contact. We are so fortunate because we’ve been able to switch almost entirely to delivery from day 1. We just had dentist appointments, and we were inside a CVS to get flu shots a few months ago, but that’s been about it for being inside buildings.
Things will open up eventually and I’ll have to figure out how to rejoin human society, and reassess the utility of the cloth mask. I think it’s going to be a long time before I feel comfortable being in a room with an unmasked person in any case. I’ll simply leave if I have no other choice.
I sing in a chorus, and a lot of the people in the chorus are 75+. There’s such a thing as a “singer’s mask” being sold, and I’ve seen YouTubes of people singing together while wearing them. But our chorus was really spooked by that story of the Seattle chorus that killed a good percentage of their members from one rehearsal. In our last meeting, nobody seemed willing to trust singer’s masks or to be in any hurry to be in a rehearsal hall together, no matter how far apart.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Uh oh. Now you’ve done it
@Major Major Major Major:
I normally just let the mask sit for a few days. Honestly, I’m running out of cone-style surgical masks and I’m going to need to switch to the ear-loop ones. Can’t find the former anymore online or in meatspace and I like the latter because the mask can get in the mouth. Not good for someone who has to face the public for hours at a time and does a lot of talking
w_seattle
This thread is helpful to get a broad sampling of options. I’ve used these masks from a local Seattle company — basically a hybrid style with cotton and quality particulate filters. They seem to fit well with different sizes and I imagine they compare favorably with KN95 masks (with limitations based on fit rather than material). The company started with masks a few years back to deal with wildfire smoke, so they aren’t just making cheap stuff to profit off of the pandemic. www.purakamasks.com
Another Scott
In other (continuing) news, …
(Emphasis added.)
Bingo.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sebastian
If true, holy shit!
Sure Lurkalot
@gvg: One pattern I make has the now oft mentioned zip ties sewn in horizontally and vertically to create a large airspace. They are a pain in the ass to make but pretty cool. Lately I’ve been using the same pattern without the zip ties but interface to stiffen one of the cotton layers. It’s not quite as effective, but much faster to make.
Happy to point anyone to well fitting patterns in a number of sizes. I’ve made masks for many people and feedback is good.
JPL
@The Moar You Know: Good to know. Months ago, my son gave me one, and I put it in a closet where I keep things that will never be used.
Another Scott
@rjnerd: Thanks for the pointer.
Cheers,
Scott.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Sebastian:
That’s a Louise Mensch parody. It’s fake
Major Major Major Major
@Sebastian: it’s a joke… in case you didn’t know.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): oh that’s right, you have to leave the house ? I still have most of what I bought a year ago so I think I’ll make it to vaccination fine.
trollhattan
@LuciaMia:
Per this morning’s paper they’re still trying to figure that out. I suppose it also has to be considered separately for each vaccine option.
Amir Khalid
@cckids:
To go by the review photos, people seem to be wearing them, not as a fashionable cover for functional masks, but instead of them.
karen marie
@Spanky: I’ve ordered the KN95 from United Medical recommended in the previous thread (20% discount using code “JAN20” through 1/20/21). I figure I’ve made it safely this far, I don’t want to blow it now. I simply cannot afford to get sick.
I really appreciate all you kids bringing together your combined knowledge and experience!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Yup. Can’t wait until after the 20th when hopefully vaccine distribution and manufacturing can be fixed and ramped up
BTW, I remember you mentioning some weeks back you had anti-PRC south Asian acquaintances who liked Trump because he was anti-China and were able to overlook his corruption/incompetence/racism. Given the events of 1/6 and Trump’s role in the insurrection, do you think they still support him even now?
trollhattan
@The Moar You Know:
Here are a few UV-C lamps used in household products, of varying wattage.
With lower wattage, you need either near proximity, long exposure time or both to be effective.
natem
@Sebastian: I’ll only believe it once it’s announced by the Marshal of the Supreme Court
Nora Lenderbee
We got a new cat from the shelter last weekend. He’s been very nice with us. We’ve kept him in one room and allowed only distant encounters with our resident cat. But if we let him out of “his” room and take him to another room–he sprays. He sprayed in the office 3 times, once in the living room (where he was for about 5 minutes). Argh! Please tell me this is just temporary and he’ll stop once he’s gotten adjusted!
karen marie
@Just Some Fuckhead: That’s not even a little bit funny.
dnfree
I like the fabric masks from Sock Fancy. (The website is exactly what you would think it is.) They are cloth masks that have a pocket for a filter but I haven’t used that. They have a separate fabric section that goes under the chin and holds the mask in place well for me, they have a bendable nose piece, and they have adjustable ear loops. They seal reasonably well on all sides (again, for my face and my husband’s). I see so many people in those cheap disposable paper masks where you can tell they’re very open on the sides or under the chin.
Of course I am not a medical professional of any kind, and I wear these masks when I make a trip to the grocery store, and I wash them before the next wearing. I line dry them rather than putting them in the dryer so they will hold up longer, I hope.
Robert Sneddon
@The Moar You Know:
Joe Public can get UV-C lamps unfortunately, even high-output ones.
Clivedotcom is a Youtuber with a beard who buys, tests and takes apart cheap electronics from dubious sources. He had a very educational video entitled “Awesome flesh-burning death lamp. (Germicidal UV)” about a 20W UV-C lamp available from China for mere money.
StanA
Open source industries, OSR, a company started by a gaggle of MIT PhD nerds, has started to sell a reusable, filters both inhalation and exhalation, mask with a high quality easily and cheaply replaceable disposable filter. I’m a retired anesthesiologist who while I wait for my OSR mask am using a 3M half face industrial mask that I modified (against manufacturers warning not to) by removing the inspiratory valves and totally blocking the expiratory path by covering it on both the inside and outside of the mask with 3M vinyl electrical tape. I have found the 2291 p100 disk style filters to be the most comfortable to use with this mask setup. You wind up both inhaling and exhaling through the filters. It’s bulky but provides a really good seal. It’s also “illegal”. It costs about 35 to 50 dollars for the mask and a pair of filters.
Aziz, light!
Not including the idiots with their noses out, most of the people in the stores are wearing poorly fitting single-layer cloth masks or bandanas that barely cover — or keep falling off — the tips of their noses. They enjoy the comfort of breathing freely through unsealed gaps. I treat them all as maskless and try to give them a wide berth. Of course they will still sidle right up to me and look insulted when I wave “please move away” with my hand. They think they are doing all that’s needed and cannot be educated about masks. The trumpies can always be identified by their stars and stripes.
I’m tired of seeking out store managers to complain about the poor masking habits of their workers as it never leads to any changes.
Given the reports about new strains I’m thinking I should limit my shopping to when the doors first open (which means 6 a.m. at Home Deep).
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Southeast Asian. We’re mostly struggling to get them to sign up for the vaccine, since they’ve veered off into truther-land, so I haven’t really had a chance to ask about anything else.
Trump’s still pretty popular in Taiwan, I hear. Biden looks to be aiming for a tough-on-CCP-but-competently-this-time strategy so maybe he will also be popular.
OGLiberal
We use homemade masks – surgical cloth, HEPA filter inside, bandana over all of it. We (family of four) each have one but I’m the only one who goes out (for groceries) and everybody here wears a mask, even some while walking a dog. Good enough?
Amir Khalid
@Nora Lenderbee:
Is he neutered yet? At the shelter, did he seem secure around people/other cats?
Just Some Fuckhead
@cckids: They sent mom home to die because insurance wouldn’t spring for any add’l costs. It’s a little ironic that she got deep-sixed by the death panels she was screaming about for years.
Just Some Fuckhead
@karen marie: Ok, Karen.
john b
@laura: Just ordered some. Looking forward to trying them out next week!
Another Scott
This, as we know, is what people who see the need to obey the rules and wear masks are up against… :-/
(via TheRealHoarse)
Cheers,
Scott.
Martin
@Brachiator: I’ve reported my local Ralphs to the county 3 times for violating occupancy/distancing requirements – allowing more people in the store than could physically stand 6 feet apart.
Ms Martin doesn’t go to the store after 8AM. Nobody is there at 6:30 to get her sick.
We’ve stuck to our quarantine so well I’ve had to jump-start cars 6 times due to lack of use. I now have a trickle charger I rotate between them because even when we do drive, it’s not far enough to charge the battery up.
My dad heads to the grocery store suited up like a Chernobyl cleanup person. Long black rubber gloves, gas mask, the whole bit. He’s got some surplus cold weather/protective gear from when he was on a nuclear submarine in the north atlantic. He doesn’t think any of that keeps virus off of him, but he says it’s very effective at getting people to keep their distance. Plus he’s a smartass that would fit in very well here (to the degree that I’ve suspected a few people here of being him long ago) so he finds it hilarious. If you were to ask him why he’s wearing it, he’ll probably tell you he’s helping clean up the hazardous waste site across town and they ran out of Doritos, with a completely straight face and a backstory just believable to keep you hooked, but not believable enough that you should believe him.
Ruckus
I’ve been wearing the 3M N95 mask at work, we had a supply of them and at one point the boss found more. But I’m out now, have worn them likely far more than I should and have found a place with a reasonable substitute. On the last thread I posted what I make for wearing as the 3M masks are unavailable and I do have to get groceries.
The best bet is as many have stated, stay as far away from other people as possible. Wear a mask that is reasonable at all times you are within 20 feet of anyone else. I say 20 feet rather than 6 just for insurance. 6 feet is with a mask. None of this is reasonable for everyone, most of us have to be near others at least some of the time. A mask is never 100% effective but it is far better than nothing. A 2 layer cloth mask that fits your face is better than nothing. It isn’t that it keeps out most everything coming in, unless the filter is extremely effective, but it does slow/stop the spread of you to others by containing your exhaust of larger droplets. Which is why everyone needs to wear masks.
Amir Khalid
@Just Some Fuckhead:
karen marie is right.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
Old, old joke about the guy taking a tour of a rubber-goods factory. First the group stopped to watch baby bottle nipples moving along the assembly line and being punched with tiny holes to allow the milk through. Next came the condom assembly line. Same thing, hole-puncher. Guy asks, “Doesn’t that kind of defeat the point of a condom?” “Sure,” says the tour guide, “but think of all the bottle nipples we sell!”
Martin
@Another Scott: Capitalism comes at you fast.
cckids
The most insane RW rumor I’ve been exposed to is that there are 200,000 Chinese troops “stationed around America’s borders”, who will be welcomed in as soon as Biden is inaugurated, allowing them to take over the country.
As always with the Trumpistas, the mind boggles at the illogic and stupidity.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Major Major Major Major: General advice in Greece about reusing cloth/cotton masks has been to wash them at 60 degrees Celsius and then iron them before reusing. I’ve got about nine multi-layer cotton fabric masks I got from a local pharmacy that I’ve been rotating through – they’re probably not as effective as N95 or KN95 but they’ve worked for me so far.
Brachiator
@cckids:
Oh noes. If only we had a border wall to keep out the Chinese menace!
Are they also in the ocean, paddling furiously?
What about the troops in Canada, eh.
Did you hear the joke about the Chinese stealth warrior who got lost in Mexico?
He took the juan way.
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, but more often than not they deal with it poorly. That’s fine when it’s radial tires or taco seasoning, but different when it’s a pandemic.
There are situations where choice is bad. Not a lot of them, but this is one.
Uncle Cosmo
I’ve actually had a fair amount of success educating folks about uncovered noses. I tell them something like –
I have yet to have anyone get mad at me. Of course it helps to be very mild-mannered about it.**
** Moi? Mild-mannered??? Hoodathunkit?!
yellowdog
@raven: As far as I’ve read, the vaccine keeps you from getting sick if you’ve been infected but no one knows if it keeps you from transmitting covid. Masks for at least another year, given newer variants that are more transmissible.
Martin
@cckids: Wait until they don’t show up and they invent some even crazier theory for why they didn’t show up.
debbie
@Another Scott:
Always be suspicious of anyone in leopard print!
Kayla Rudbek
Have there been any assessments of using fabric/fashion tape to make a better seal for masks? Fashion tape being a double-sided flexible tape that can be applied directly to the skin; what I’ve done with it is to put it on the inside of a cloth mask and basically tape the mask to my face. Not the most comfortable thing to remove and reseal (like my eye appointment) but I felt more secure…
debbie
@Kayla Rudbek:
That area’s very delicate skin. Maybe once in a while, but I wouldn’t make a habit of it.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Amir Khalid: Yep. I’m totally on board with whatever the embalmed crew thinks.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
I keep hearing Trumpers insisting that Trump showed the Chinese and the North Koreans that he was the boss. As far as I can see, US policy did not accomplish anything.
Conservatives (and some others) don’t give a shit about tyranny anywhere else in the world, and just want to keep the US out of it, so if there was anything other than mild disapproval from Trump over stifling democracy in Hong Kong or other matters, I never saw it.
Trump’s tariff war didn’t do anything other than make American consumers pay higher prices for goods manufactured or assembled in China. Oh and some manufacturing moved from China to India and Vietnam.
And apparently, North Korea was so afraid of Trump that they waited until the November election to work on their new super duper missile. They sure work fast!
Don’t know how they are doing with their Dear Leader line of masks.
JoyceH
Uncle Joe just spanked those GOP assholes who wouldn’t wear a mask in their safe spaces. Good.
As for spraying cat, I have to recommend Feliway. It’s a liquid pheromone kinda thing, good for cat spray and fighting. Apparently it calms them down. My inherited cat was spraying until I tried the Feliway. It comes with a diffuser you can plug into the wall like an air freshener.
About a month ago, my own cat started attacking my inherited cat – not playing, really trying to hurt her. I looked and the diffuser was empty. Replaced it and solved the problem.
Feliway. It’s a great thing.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Martin: We use grocery pickup. We haven’t been inside a grocery store for almost a year. I do drop by the convenience store once a month or so but that’s the extent of my outside forays.
cckids
It’s one of the few things Kroger started doing right – they just require everyone to wear either the surgical mask (supplied for us); or a KN95. No cloth masks, or bandanas.
Of course, this started because someone bitched about an employee wearing a “Black Lives Matter” mask, and someone else bitched about an employee wearing a Trump mask. Wisely, the company sidestepped that fracas & just said “no cloth masks, no masks with writing”.
Sadly, this means I can’t wear my GOT-themed mask cover that says “Not Today”, but its fine.
Just Some Fuckhead
@WaterGirl: Well you’re not helping!
cckids
@Martin: As we all know by now, there’s no peak wingnut.
Brachiator
@Martin:
My main market is pretty good. I think they relaxed distance rules a while back when they got rid of the one-way aisle markers. But customers are good about masks and distance.
I did see a guy stocking shelves who was not wearing a mask.
The supermarket is one of the few places that I regularly visit.
I stopped going to Trader Joe’s, even though I like them. Smaller space and stores were showing up among businesses with infections.
Gin & Tonic
Heartbreaking news:
Ohio Mom
Eunicycle:
I also got masks in the mail a few days ago, I think because I am 65. Ohio Dad, who is only 63, didn’t get any.
Jinchi
Trump began his North Korea strategy by threatening nuclear war and ended up a Kim Jong-Un fanboi the day he received his “beautiful letter”.
SiubhanDuinne
@Sebastian:
I googled “death penalty steve bannon” and found entries with identical language as the Axios tweet showing up from as far back as mid-2017. Evidently first posted by Louise Mensch.
ETA: I see @Another Scott and @Goku got there with the debunkery long before I did.
Robert Sneddon
@yellowdog: The basic biology of virus infections, including coronaviruses like COVID-19, is that a vector (in our case, humans) gets infected by inhaling or ingesting virus particles. These induce the host’s own cells to create more virus particles which in turn create even more particles. The host body develops antibodies that kill these virus particles, bad things happen to the host body’s respiratory tract and other parts meantime.
Once we’re infected we cough, sneeze, spray, spit and otherwise emit clouds of the newly-created virus particles, possibly even before noticeable symptoms appear (asymptomatic spreading). A small fraction of these emitted virus particles make it into someone else’s body and the dance continues.
Assuming a vaccination “takes” and antibodies are produced along with the associated memory cells then when someone who is vaccinated gets infected, their viral load is much reduced since there’s little or no delay before the antibodies start destroying the virus and preventing them from being replicated by host cells. This results in no infection or a mild case of infection and much smaller amounts of new virus particles being emitted and so reduces the chance someone else down the line wwil lget infected at all.
Generally vaccination is not a perfect preventative to infection but being vaccinated vastly reduces the amount of virus an infected person will emit as well as reducing the severity of the effects of that virus on their own body. I can’t envisage COVID-19 and the vaccines being developed for it being any different but the actual numbers and proofs aren’t there yet since there’s only been about 10 months of real collected data to work with.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: I guess all that Russian money dried up.
Another Scott
@Robert Sneddon: Excellent explanation.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: well I didn’t say Trump should be popular in Taiwan.
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
The NRA is about to join many of its “life” members in post-life.
Nora Lenderbee
@Amir Khalid: @JoyceH:
Yes, he’s neutered. The shelter didn’t know whether he had issues with other cats. We’ve got Feliway being delivered today or tomorrow, thank heavens. Thank you!
BTW, if anyone needs to know, dish soap + water + vinegar actually gets (fresh) cat pee out of white cotton curtains.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
True enough. I was commenting more about domestic Trumpers.
I wonder if there were any actual policy initiatives that caused anyone in Taiwan to approve of Trump.
gvg
@Sure Lurkalot: I’d love patterns. Um I don’t like sewing but learned. Mom wants me to make more this weekend as she says hers are grubby and won’t clean up anymore. She never learned to sew deliberately part of escaping being trapped as a farm wife.
What I have bought was not as good as I could make so…I sew.
WaterGirl
@Sebastian: That doesn’t take me anywhere that will show me the back story on this.
WaterGirl
@Just Some Fuckhead: I care about you enough to tell you the cold, hard facts.
Ruckus
OK just got my appointments for the Pfizer shots at the VA. Two weeks from today is first shot and exactly 4 weeks later is second.
@Martin:
Same for my car, it’s not like the days of old that when you shut them off, that means off. There’s a clock, an alarm system, door locks, remote unlocking, the computer that runs everything likely stays powered up. It’s not a lot but it’s constant. And I try to walk to work the normal 3 days a week I go, unless the work load goes way up or way down, like the last 2-3 months. I go to the store, maybe once a week at most, late or early, when I get low on food. I go to the VA only when a video appointment won’t work. Like in 2 weeks.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Thoughts and swears!
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
I use 1/32 Titanium welding wire. Comes in 3 ft lengths which make 10-12 nose wires each. Bending them is not easy, you have to use a form to bend them over, but I do that so that they fit my face and they stay that way, which the thin aluminum strips don’t. I have run out of 3M N95 masks at work, am buying more N95, not 3M, from one of the vendors someone posted about in the thread below.
Uncle Cosmo
Yeah, but after the collapse of the Coup Clucks’ Klan on 6 Jan last, there are oodles of piqued wingnuts. And it serves ’em (far-)right. Fuckem each & every one.
The Lodger
@Uncle Cosmo: I guess your way of dealing with an exposed nose is friendlier than when I growl, “Just tuck it back into the speedo, buddy.”
gwangung
Besides the Powecomms (as mentioned, you can detect which ones are fake and which ones are genuine), I also use Livinguards, as they’re treated to deactivate the virus after a half hour. I use velcro ties to tighten them up so they don’t slip.
Another Scott
Standard Disclaimer – Early results, needs more study.
ScienceMag:
The Pandemic isn’t over. Be safe.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
Happened to have a routine med appointment today, scheduled months ago.
My doctor was wearing a mask that looks a lot like the Airqueens Laura recommended. Some kind of an N95 contraption. White.
The staff was wearing paper surgical masks, to a person. They were also stringent on our leaving the building by a different door than the entrance.
My doctor could be an honorary jackal. You would like her a lot. She reports her Fox-watching, non-masking parents both caught COVID over the holidays. Possibly from her brother, but who knows. Her father told her there was one night “he did not think he was going to make it”, but they both recovered. They needed to be hospitalized, ICU, the whole thing. Asked her about any longterm effects; she said uncertain, since they both went into the virus with pre-existing conditions.
The med office staff has done fine. My doctor has lost one patient to Covid, and has a few others with the longterm disease. I think she called them “long haulers.”
Fox and rightwing propaganda is such a powerful influencer. Her parents ignored their daughter, the M.D.
And, FWIW, I could not find any more paper surgical masks at the Kroger. They were all over the place a few weeks ago. Now they have 3-packs of N95 wannabe-looking masks. I love the surgical masks, though, and that is pretty much what staff was wearing.
Yer correspondent,
Elizabelle
joel hanes
@Another Scott:
I have not found a way to get paper surgeon’s masks to fit my face well.
Have you tried this technique?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TTg53aAP8Q
laura
@dc: 10 times. I wear mine any time outside – even walking the neighborhood. I sanitize it if I’ve had human interaction – at the store, or post office. If I’m the only one out in the nieghborhood, I hold off on sanitizing.
debbie
@Gin & Tonic:
I was scrambling for my tiniest violin while NPR was reporting that.
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
Mine came today, along with a brochure of safety practices. Nothing about how to get an appointment, which was a bit disappointing.
VOR
Article at The Atlantic wondering why we aren’t wearing better masks a year into the pandemic. Frankly, I’d say the reason is Trump and his followers. We’re at the point where getting people to wear anything is still a struggle. I bet the MAGAts go ballistic anytime someone at the CDC even suggests a program to certify masks. Or use DPA to increase supply.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/01/why-arent-we-wearing-better-masks/617656/
I see people wearing clear plastic shields with huge gaps at the top and bottom. I saw one where it sat about 3″ away from the skin and the top ended right at the nose. Looked completely worthless.
debbie
@joel hanes:
Hey, thanks! I couldn’t figure out how to get rid of the gap.
dc
@laura: Thank you! I just ordered a pack of 10.
Sebastian
@WaterGirl:
Others have mentioned that it’s a parody account. I’ve been following him for a while but forgot why.
Another Scott
@joel hanes: Yup. I was looking forward to trying that when we finally got the masks we ordered way back in the spring.
It didn’t work for me. Maybe my head is too big or something… :-/
Tonight I ordered some of the Essential Mask Braces mentioned on the wisc.edu page pointed to by rjnerd in #102 above. (There are some one-size-fits-all Chinese knockoffs on Amazon that cost less, but J and I have different size heads.) We’ll see how that goes.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
rjnerd
Well I gave the VYZR its first public outing, a trip to the grocery store. It was interesting at least. It clearly worked, tho getting the straps fastened while wearing a coat was a challenge. (I had practiced at home, but the extra bulk of the coat made them hard to reach).
You are mostly deaf, the outer shell does a good job attenuating outside sound. (the fans weren’t that loud, the problem was just its sound insulation). It does add a fair bit of height, and as a shorter than average for my gender (170 cm) , I am not used to the idea that the top of a doorway is something I might want to think about. But it does rule out wearing it in most cars. It limits vision less than a typical motorcycle helmet, so if there was the headroom, I could drive with it.
Fogging was much less of an issue than glasses with a normal mask, Not non-existent, but I bet if I turned the fan up (intake is multi-speed). At least it warmed quickly. Until I got the straps adjusted, it did have a tendency to tip back, and wind up with my nose touching things.
As for public reaction, I do pick times that the place is usually mostly empty. It was clearly noticed by the staff, one of the produce people asked if I needed help, and I said “no, its just an industrial breathing system” and they nodded, and nobody said anything afterwards.
I live alone, and don’t own a selfie stick, so no picture of me wearing it is available.
Another Scott
@rjnerd: Thanks for the report from the future!
:-)
Seriously, thanks. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.