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If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

All your base are belong to Tunch.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

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Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

You are here: Home / Politics / GOP Death Cult / Bad Craziness Open Thread: Trump’s Second Impeachment ‘Defense’

Bad Craziness Open Thread: Trump’s Second Impeachment ‘Defense’

by | 136 Comments

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OAFS OATHS OF FEALTY!!!

This is pure performance art, of course, but it’s a bold opening bid in the GOP Death Cult’s Who Can Be Most Loyal to Our Dear Leader and His Beloved Mob? competition…

… Both the House impeachment managers and Trump’s legal team submitted pretrial legal briefs on Tuesday ahead of the trial that begins on February 9. Both sides are expected to submit one more round of pretrial briefs on Monday before the trial begins the following day.

Trump’s lawyers argued Tuesday that it was unconstitutional for the Senate to hold an impeachment trial for a former president. Trump’s team also contended that the former president’s speech about election fraud did not incite the rioters and was protected by the First Amendment. “The 45th President exercised his First Amendment right under the Constitution to express his belief that the election results were suspect,” Trump’s lawyers wrote.

But Raskin argued on the Democratic call that Trump’s remarks at a January 6 rally before the rioters attacked the Capitol were not First Amendment-protected speech. His comments weren’t like shouting fire in a crowded theater, Raskin said, but like a fire chief sending a mob to the theater, according to the source.

Raskin added on the call that extremist elements in Russia and Germany view the storming of the Capitol as a great victory for 21st Century fascism…

Speaking to Pennsylvania radio station KYW Newsradio on Wednesday, Trump attorney Bruce L. Castor said he plans to focus on the “technical” defenses of Trump, and that he was not pressured to try to craft a defense relying on Trump’s false and baseless claims of widespread election fraud.

“There are plenty of questions about how the election was conducted throughout the country, but that’s for a different forum. I don’t believe that’s important to litigate in the Senate trial, because you don’t need it,” Castor said…

Like you could stop your client from repeating this bullshite, in whatever forums he can still find.


Fortunately, we own the refs here. And the recording equipment in the video booth. So it’s our word against… well, ‘the truth’ is what we’ll make of it, at least in *this* forum…

Reader Interactions

136Comments

  2. 2.

    trnc

    Even Alan Dershowitz is refusing to represent Trump on impeachment. “It would be morally wrong for me to present that argument. I’m not criticizing lawyers who would present those arguments, but… I don’t believe the election was stolen.”

    (Brief pause)

    “GET ME TURLEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!!!”

  3. 3.

    JaneE

    So Trump’s defense in part is that he is delusional?  Not that unfit for office ever stopped someone from voting for Trump in the first place, nor will it make it any more likely that the GOP senators will still say he should be allowed to run again and vote to acquit.

  4. 4.

    CaseyL

    I admit to some morbid curiosity about what kind of case T*’s defenders try, but not much. more.  We know the GOP won’t convict.

    So the question becomes, how damning will the evidence be that the GOP will ignore in order to acquit?

    I’m much more interested in the case for conviction, and feel ambivalent about what I’ve heard so far.  An “emotional case” doesn’t do it for me. I’d prefer something cold and precise, with timelines and names named, on the meetings before Jan 6th at the WH between the T* Administration and the various pustules planning the insurrection.

    Facts are damning.  Emotional appeals are manipulative.

  5. 5.

    cmorenc

    @MattGaetz tells #WarRoomPandemic he would be willing to resign his Congressional seat in order to defend President Donald Trump in the upcoming impeachment trial.

    For just this once, I fully support Matt Gaetz, and hope he gets his wish.

  6. 6.

    MattF

    Trump’s only real argument is that, since the election was stolen from him, he had every right to send a mob to the Capitol to prevent certification. This presents his (current) lawyers with a delicate situation. They can’t make that argument explicitly— I feel pretty sure that various Republican Senators have told them very plainly that doing so would be suicidal. We shall see.

  7. 7.

    Roger Moore

    Do you have any idea how unbelievably bad a case has to be that Alan Dershowitz feels it is “morally wrong” for him to take it?

    It doesn’t have to be that bad.  He’s arguing that he morally can’t take a case if he doesn’t believe the argument he’d be making, which I think is not just morally correct but also a standard part of legal ethics.  Given Dershowitz, that might exclude plenty of just fine cases that he personally disagrees with.

  8. 8.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Vincent “The Chin” Gigante, the powerful New York mob boss who avoided prison for decades by wandering Greenwich Village’s streets in a ratty bathrobe and slippers as part of an elaborate feigned mental illness.

  9. 9.

    Jeffro

    With him magically out of the office, out of power, and life not only going on but getting better by the minute, exponentially, it has to be sinking in with more and more of his supporters that a) he is not the sun, the moon, and the stars, and b) perhaps, just perhaps, he may have told a fib or two

    keep pounding, impeachment managers!

    keep pounding, Biden administration!

  12. 12.

    dmsilev

    This is pure performance art, of course, but it’s a bold opening bid in the GOP Death Cult’s Who Can Be Most Loyal to Our Dear Leader and His Beloved Mob? competition…

    Certain cultures had instances where a deceased leader was entombed with some of his followers. Just saying that there is precedent.

  14. 14.

    Princess

    Trump could be his own defense lawyer and get up there and tell them that he did plan and encourage the assault on the Capitol and that his only regret is that more people didn’t die, and the GOP Senators would still vote to acquit. I low-key hope he does. He’d enjoy it — he likes nothing more than demonstrating what cowardly toadies his supporters are and how owned they are by him.

  15. 15.

    JoyceH

    @cmorenc: ​
     

    For just this once, I fully support Matt Gaetz, and hope he gets his wish.

    I’m just gobsmacked at the discovery that he’s a lawyer. He struck me as more of a, I dunno… a car dealership guy or something. But I looked it up, and sure enough, he’s a lawyer. I don’t know why I find it so shocking, there are plenty of loonytunes lawyers, but it really did surprise me.

  16. 16.

    BruceFromOhio

    @MattGaetz tells #WarRoomPandemic he would be willing to resign his Congressional seat in order to defend President Donald Trump in the upcoming impeachment trial.

    Whew, I need a cigarette after that one.

  17. 17.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @WaterGirl: ​  Part of Dump’s defense is that he can’t be held responsible for his actions because he is delusional (lacks mens rea), which brings to mind how “Vinny the Chin” famously tried the same “I’m delusional” defense.​

  18. 18.

    SiubhanDuinne

    MattGaetz tells #WarRoomPandemic he would be willing to resign his Congressional seat in order to defend President Donald Trump in the upcoming impeachment trial.

    Don’t threaten me with a good time, Matt.

  19. 19.

    dmsilev

    @Roger Moore: Such as, for instance, arguing in favor of T***’s conviction. Not that the House would need an external attorney, but I’m sure Dershowitz would have moral issues taking that role if they asked for some bizarre reason.

  20. 20.

    Wag

    @JaneE:   Not guilty by reason of INSANITY!

     

    I prefer the immortal words of Doonsebury during the Nixon years-

    GUILTY, GULITY GUILTY!

  21. 21.

    zhena gogolia

    @Jeffro:

    Did you see that reformed QAnon guy telling Anderson Cooper that just a few days ago he thought AC had killed babies and drunk their blood?

  22. 22.

    kindness

    If only there was an active volcano close at hand that these Trumpies could prove their fealty to Trump by throwing themselves into.  Really.  I mean that.

  27. 27.

    mrmoshpotato

    @dmsilev:

    Certain cultures had instances where a deceased leader was entombed with some of his followers. Just saying that there is precedent. 

    1. Does the bottom of the Marianas trench count as “entombed?”
    2. Could it fit 74 million Trump humpers?
  28. 28.

    bbleh

    @MattGaetz tells #WarRoomPandemic he would be willing to resign his Congressional seat in order to defend President Donald Trump in the upcoming impeachment trial.

    Resign?  That’s nothing! I hereby proclaim before the Lord and the Republican Party that I would happily strip to a loincloth and be nailed to a cross to proclaim the innocence of the Greatest and Most Pure of All Presidents Ever in the Universe!  That is the strength of my love and loyalty!

  29. 29.

    dmsilev

    @MattF: Picture a screaming and weeping mob dragging let’s say Kevin McCarthy toward the giant gold-painted wicker man or pyramid entrance or whatever.

  31. 31.

    debbie

    The managers should just show video clips and Tweet screenshots of every single instance of incitement and then remind the GOP that even babies are taught about consequences.

  32. 32.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Q. And may I finally ask whether the President has made a decision on keeping, or keeping the scope of, Space Force?

    MS. PSAKI: Wow. Space Force. It’s the plane* of today!

    MS. PSAKI: It is an interesting question. I am happy to check with our Space Force point of contact. I’m not sure who that is. I will find out, and see if we have any update on that.

    * during the first week, the idiot press corp kept asking her if Biden would reverse Dump’s proposed changes to Air Force One’s color scheme, to which she had to repeatedly say President Biden doesn’t care.​​​​

  33. 33.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

     

    Q. And then, on the meeting with the Republican senators, you said the word “reiterate.” I think in the statement last night, it had the word “reiterate” three separate times. Like, it’s very clear where you guys —

    MS. PSAKI: We like that word. It’s a good word.

    MS. PSAKI: It’s a solid word.

  35. 35.

    Ken

    @kindness: You don’t need a volcano, a high building will do fine.  Remember the scene in Conan the Barbarian where Thulsa Doom shows how much his followers love him?

  41. 41.

    Mary G

    Florida has very low standards both for congresscritters and lawyers.

     Also, too somebody got to Marge and told her ixnay on the razycay:

    INSIDE HOUSE GOP CONFERENCE: @RepMTG tells fellow members she thinks school shootings are 'real and awful.' Says she doesn't know what "Jewish space lasers' are & takes issue w/ having said that. 'Apologizes' for subscribing to QAnon theories 'in the past' (per source)— David M. Drucker (@DavidMDrucker) February 3, 2021

  43. 43.

    Brachiator

    @MattF:

    Trump’s only real argument is that, since the election was stolen from him, he had every right to send a mob to the Capitol to prevent certification.

    Isn’t it more fun than this? Trump’s good lawyers want to argue that it is unconstitutional to convict him because he is no longer in office. So it doesn’t matter what he may have tried to do.

    But if the election was stolen from him, he is still president. And if he is president, he can be convicted and removed.

    His crazy lawyers would argue that Trump could do anything to fight a stolen election. But here he would be saying that his authority is greater than constitutional remedies available to him.

  44. 44.

    Jinchi

    “It would be morally wrong for me to present that argument. I’m not criticizing lawyers who would present those arguments, but… I don’t believe the election was stolen.” – Dershowitz

    I’m trying to parse this comment. Why would it be morally wrong for him, but not for another lawyer to present that argument. I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t argue that a lawyer has to believe his client is actually innocent before defending him and nobody believes that a lawyer won’t present a nonsense argument if it’s in his client’s interest.

  45. 45.

    Mary G

    @Mary G: Le sigh:

    Source tells me that roughly half the House GOP conference gave Marjorie Taylor Greene a standing ovation after she rose to speak a few min ago.— Cameron Joseph (@cam_joseph) February 3, 2021

  48. 48.

    Ken

    @Brachiator: Ah, but the Supreme Court – or at least, John Roberts – has said that Trump is not President any more.  It would be fun if someone brought that to Trump’s attention.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    @Ken:

    Ah, but the Supreme Court – or at least, John Roberts – has said that Trump is not President any more.  It would be fun if someone brought that to Trump’s attention.

    Trump’s crazy defense is that only Trump can judge Trump. Only Trump can decide if he is Trump. A Trump is a Trump is a Trump.

  56. 56.

    Stacib

    @debbie: His last fees were likely paid by the U.S. government. He knows if the check has to come from trump’s** account, he’s gonna get stiffed. The “immoral” part is him not getting paid.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    @Mary G: 

    Source tells me that roughly half the House GOP conference gave Marjorie Taylor Greene a standing ovation after she rose to speak a few min ago

    What a low bar. Why praise someone for pretending to be sane for a hot minute?

    Or do they think she is bravely giving in to a gang of Inquisitors?

  60. 60.

    Old School

    I saw it pointed out that this is where we are at:

    Republican Senators: We can’t impeach Trump. He’s no longer president.

    Trump: I’m still president!

  62. 62.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Mary G:  …hasn’t she literally said Q-positive things in the recent past? Like, since she was sworn in?

    I don’t think this convinces anyone. I know the Q groups still regard her as their agent on the inside.

  65. 65.

    MagdaInBlack

    Well, I’m watching Hal Sparks ( youtube) watch Matt Gaetz on WarRoom, and boy is he a lunatic. And, btw, Bannon appears to have very small hands.

  67. 67.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Mary G: To be clear, they gave a standing ovation to a 9/11 truther, someone who believes Jewish Space Lasers caused the California fires, believes school shooting are Democratic false flag attacks, thinks Democratic and media elites are satanic pedophiles and has specifically endorsed the assassination of the House Speaker. And that’s only a short list – it goes on a lot longer.

    So that’s the Republican Party. That’s who they are.

  68. 68.

    Ruckus

    @Princess:

    Some of them might not go that far.

    I’m not holding my breath and don’t recommend that to anyone else either but there does seem to be some pushback from the direction of the republican side of congress if he goes all out bugfuck crazy. Because that may cost some of them reelection. Being wrong probably won’t enter into their thinking….

  70. 70.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    @mrmoshpotato:

    1. Does the bottom of the Marianas trench count as “entombed?”
    2. Could it fit 74 million Trump humpers?

    That works out to ~75 thousand whale-falls at once. The abyssal ecology can handle that.

  71. 71.

    Calouste

    @Brachiator: Someone should try to argue before a judge that it is unconstitutional to convict their client of robbing a bank, because their client is now no longer in that bank. Which I don’t think will be very successful. But that’s kind of the argument the shitgibbon’s lawyers are trying to make.

  73. 73.

    Jinchi

    @MisterForkbeard: To be clear, they gave a standing ovation to a 9/11 truther, someone who believes Jewish Space Lasers caused the California fires, believes school shooting are Democratic false flag attacks, thinks Democratic and media elites are satanic pedophiles and has specifically endorsed the assassination of the House Speaker

    I’ve seen at least two interviews where a reporter asks a MTG voter whether they think she’s fit to serve, given the comments she made (about executing Pelosi and harassing David Hogg).

    They of course say ‘Yes’ followed by some nonsense that these were things she did before she became a Congresswoman.

    Of course, the reality is that they voted for her because of her despicable actions, not in spite of them. So of course they still support her now.

  75. 75.

    burnspbesq

    @Roger Moore:

    under the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, you can make an argument that you objectively assess to be a loser.

    A lawyer shall not bring or defend a proceeding, or assert or controvert an issue therein, unless there is a basis in law and fact for doing so that is not frivolous, which includes a good faith argument for an extension, modification or reversal of existing law.

    ”Not frivolous” is a pretty low bar. Most lawyers would tell you that a 20-25 percent chance of succeeding qualifies as not frivolous.

    Dershowitz is just as amoral as any other competent lawyer. He’s posturing to protect his brand.

  78. 78.

    Brachiator

    @Calouste:

    Someone should try to argue before a judge that it is unconstitutional to convict their client of robbing a bank, because their client is now no longer in that bank. Which I don’t think will be very successful. But that’s kind of the argument the shitgibbon’s lawyers are trying to make.

    Trump: I am a sitting president. You cannot impeach me and convict me of my crimes.

    Trump: I am no longer a sitting president. You cannot impeach me and convict me of my crimes. I have run out the clock. (Also, I am still president).

    ooh, ooh, ooh, Trump is Schrodinger’s President. He is simultaneously there and not there, depending on when you observe his crimes.

  80. 80.

    JMG

    Greene’s just the proof of the obvious. Millions of our fellow citizens want us (people on this board and those like us) dead. It’s that simple. What to do about this escapes me, but their happy assumption they can kill without being killed is surely mistaken.

  82. 82.

    Roger Moore

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: ​
     

    Part of Dump’s defense is that he can’t be held responsible for his actions because he is delusional

    I guess that might be a viable part of a criminal defense, but I fail to see how it’s a good idea in what is inherently political matter. “I can’t be held accountable because I can’t tell right from wrong” is not a good argument for why you should continue to be eligible for public office.

  83. 83.

    gene108

    @Amir Khalid:

    Lin Wood and Rudy Giuliani are lawyers, technically.

    Thirty to forty years ago Rudy was a successful U.S. Attorney prosecuting the New York mob. He must’ve been competent once.

    I have no clue about Wood.

  84. 84.

    burnspbesq

    @debbie:

    Tell me Dersh sincerely thought he was innocent.

    Doesn’t matter what he thought. The jury decided that the state failed to prove every element of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt.

  86. 86.

    Ken

    @Brachiator:ooh, ooh, ooh, Trump is Schrodinger’s President. He is simultaneously there and not there, depending on when you observe his crimes.

    I believe the canonical experiment is to pass him through two 10-Angstrom slits, and view the interference pattern.

  87. 87.

    burnspbesq

    At some point in the proceedings, I want to see the House managers look every Republican Senator in the eye and say “Donald Trump sent a mob here to murder you in cold blood. You down with that?”

  94. 94.

    burnspbesq

    There were five Premier League matches today. The visiting team won all five. Don’t think we’ve seen that before.

  97. 97.

    Ruckus

    @Jinchi:

    He’s saying he doesn’t believe it and that’s his bridge too far. Which is pretty amazing if you ask me, that he actually seems to have any morals. Hey take what you can get. shitforbrains wasn’t going to hire him anyway. He’s not crazy/insane enough.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    @Calouste:

    Someone should try to argue before a judge that it is unconstitutional to convict their client of robbing a bank, because their client is now no longer in that bank. Which I don’t think will be very successful. But that’s kind of the argument the shitgibbon’s lawyers are trying to make.

    They can take it to the Supreme Court, but I don’t see how it could stand. I ain’t no lawyer, but this seems clear to me:

    The result of conviction is removal from office and (optionally, in a separate vote) disqualification from holding any federal office in the future, which requires a concurrence of only a majority of senators present.

    The Senate must be able to consider and apply the disqualification option. The Constitution specifically gives them this power. A president cannot evade this possible outcome by running out the clock on his presidential term.

  101. 101.

    zhena gogolia

    Watching Iolanthe on streaming, and these lyrics struck me:

    When in that House M.P.’s divide,
    If they’ve a brain and cerebellum, too,
    They’ve got to leave that brain outside,
    And vote just as their leaders tell ’em to.
    But then the prospect of a lot
    Of dull M. P.’s in close proximity,
    All thinking for themselves, is what
    No man can face with equanimity.
    Let’s rejoice with loud Fal la–Fal la la!
    That Nature always does contrive–Fal lal la!
    That every boy and every gal
    That’s born into the world alive
    Is either a little Liberal
    Or else a little Conservative!
    Fal lal la!

  102. 102.

    Patricia Kayden

    Nine parents deported by the Trump administration landed back into the U.S. Wednesday to reunite with children they had not seen in a year and a half.Some of the children were at the airport to greet them, including David Xol's 9-year-old son Byron. pic.twitter.com/vwItUi7o1a— Ibrahim (@ialhusseini) February 3, 2021

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    @JoyceH:

    He attended law school. Did he pass the bar exam in any state, hold a license? Because otherwise he’s a law school graduate, not a lawyer. I know that the CA state bar exam is not all that easy, I helped a neighbor study for the bar exam 2 or 3 thousand years ago and I’m sure I couldn’t have passed the first page.

  106. 106.

    NotMax

    OT.

    Brrr. Raining like the dickens, cottage shuddering in the winds, temp dropped almost ten degrees in the past hour. 62°F, at 3:45 in the afternoon (and still heading south).

  108. 108.

    lowtechcyclist

    They can take it to the Supreme Court, but I don’t see how it could stand.

    The Supreme Court has no jurisdiction over impeachments. What they think doesn’t matter.

  110. 110.

    Mike in NC

    Watching an Aussie tearjerker on Netflix called “Penguin Bloom”. Last night we checked out a couple of episodes of “Ted Lasso” which we found funny as hell.

  123. 123.

    NotMax

    @geg6

    Hey, at least you live in a domicile with insulation and built-in heating. And (I hope) without jalousie windows, which no matter what one does let damp wind gusts through. Reluctantly just turned on the space heater to a low setting, which in this kind of weather acts more as a damp chaser. Oven on (with a double chocolate sour cream cake cooking inside) will help, too.

    ;)

  124. 124.

    BruceFromOhio

    @debbie:

    Impressive vote, too! 145 to 61. Not even a squeaker.

    And that is the snapshot of the Republicans today. Compare those 61 to the representation in the Senate, and you can see 2022 from here. Lots to do.

  127. 127.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Does anybody think the GOP has just committed political suicide by not punishing Greene?

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @NotMax: (with a double chocolate sour cream cake cooking inside)

    My god, that sounds good.

    two reasons I don’t bake: I would almost certainly fuck up that recipe– a Duncan Hines box would about test my culinary limits– and two, whatever did come out of the oven would not last twenty-four hours, and I live alone.

  134. 134.

    jonas

    Trump’s brief pushes the lie that the election results were “suspect” — under the argument that he had a first amendment right to make that assertion

    So if you go on a hysterical rant in front of a crowd about how the lizard people are controlling us all and must be destroyed and the crowd goes on a rampage and kills some people it thinks are the lizards, it’s cool because the First Amendment gives you the right to go on rants about the lizard people? And if some people take that a little too far, well, whaddyagonnado? IANAL, but I don’t think it works that way, even if the lizard people aren’t real…

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