Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let there be snark.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

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Thursday Morning Open Thread: President Bi-Partisan

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195Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Call me when 37% of house and senate republicans vote in favor of the Covid bill, then we can talk of “bipartisan” coalitions.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    Another thing Biden learned from 2009: Don’t wait. Don’t have a big, protracted national debate. Don’t give Republicans time to flood the zone. Move forward now.

    We didn’t have a long protracted debate about the 2009 stimulus, which is the relevant analogy.

    But the meme has stuck, so I’m pissing into the wind.

  4. 4.

    debbie

    I saw somewhere on Twitter last night where unnamed Dems were talking about raising the income threshold to qualify for stimulus checks. It was framed as Dems caving. I hear nothing about that now, so I can only assume it was bogus?

  5. 5.

    Baud

    @debbie:

    No, there’s a message about the types of compromises that Biden will accept from the GOP.  Some reallocation of funding, but no major cuts.

  8. 8.

    Nicole

    Someone said something smart about it yesterday- that there’s no downside for the Democrats to passing the 1.9T stimulus. If the Dems lose in 2022, after passing the stimulus, they were going to lose anyway and at least they got relief to people.  And if they pass it, they can run on, “Democrats got relief to you” and so they got relief to people AND they (hopefully) win.  No one is going to use “The Democrats gave me money” as a reason to not for them.  If they don’t vote Democratic, their reasons are not about the stimulus.

  10. 10.

    Jeffro

    Democrats: 97% support, 3% oppose independents: 68%-25% Republicans: 37%-47%

    One would think that at 97% Dem support, we might…just might…get one measly “DEMS IN ARRAY!” story.

    (I mean come ON, snooze media…if ever there was a ‘man bites dog’ story, right???)

    I won’t hold my breath

    ETA @RandomMonster: great minds thinking alike!  ;)

  11. 11.

    John S.

    I know it’s only been a few weeks, but DAMN things are really going quite well on multiple fronts.

    Biden was always my first choice (I even wanted him to run in 2016). And while I have expressed concern over his appeal to bipartisanship and how the shitbag Republicans and their boot-licking media whores would frame things, I honestly have to say that team Biden have been doing a masterful job.

    I’ve never been more proud to be a lifelong Democrat than right now.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    @Nicole:

    Makes sense.  I don’t see a downside here. Certainly treating the GOP alternative even half way doesn’t do anything for us politically.

  13. 13.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie: Someone needs to remind the GOP of past half-measures that only served to lengthen the emergency.

    They don’t need reminding, as with Obama, that is the whole purpose for their actions. Make Biden a one term president.

  16. 16.

    debbie

    Two assholes in the legislature here want to declare June 14th as Trump Day to celebrate his accomplishments.  ?

  17. 17.

    Jeffro

    I think it’s funny…ok, almost funny…that the 10 Very Serious and Not At All ‘Q’ Republican Senators came to President Biden with a proposal that was an insulting third the size of what’s needed and…got zip.

    They thought they’d knock $1T out of that aid package, and demonstrate some sort of ‘fiscal responsibility’, I guess.  Slow down the recovery while also giving their ailing party something to rally around, I guess.

    Back to the drawing board, GQP!  Let us know when you discover your principles, er, ones that you can actually sell to a majority of American voters, that is.

  24. 24.

    rikyrah

    He learned from his time at the rodeo. LOVE THIS LESSON LEARNED

    Another thing Biden learned from 2009: Don't wait. Don't have a big, protracted national debate. Don't give Republicans time to flood the zone. Move forward now.— Jeff Fecke (@jkfecke) February 3, 2021

  25. 25.

    SFAW

    @Nicole:

    No one is going to use “The Democrats gave me money” as a reason to not for them.

    But they’ll use “Sure, the Democrats gave me money, but they gave the same amount of money to THOSE PEOPLE, who aren’t really deserving.” But, as you noted in your next sentence, they weren’t going to vote for Dems in the first place.

  27. 27.

    Chris T.

    I’m looking forward to the impeachment defense, which apparently will go like this: “You can’t impeach Trump because he’s not the President anymore. And, you can’t impeach him because he won the election and the insurrectionists were just obeying his orders and therefore righting a wrong. And you can’t impeach him for inciting insurrection because they weren’t obeying his orders. When he ordered them to overrun the capitol, he was too much of a moron to understand that they’d obey! So there you have it, we have mathematically proven that the guy who is President isn’t President and his orders didn’t order anyone to do anything, so they didn’t do anything illegal and everything illegal they did is their own fault! And we’re not crazy, it’s Trump that’s crazy, and that’s why he can’t be 25th-Amendment-ed either!”

  28. 28.

    rikyrah

    Between this and Qevin McCarthy
    Methinks the Dems are getting that messaging thing ??

    Democrats have taken to talking about "survival checks" instead of "stimulus checks"— Erica Werner (@ericawerner) February 3, 2021

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    Intense winter stormlets blew in and blew out on Wednesday, leaving a calling card draping Haleakala. Between 1 and 2 inches of rain per hour at lower elevations as each passed through. In a lull at the moment, although still dripping out there, expecting one more punch before the front moves on altogether.

  30. 30.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @rikyrah: I found the opposite. I use one of the cheap(fish) blue surgical-like mask under a good cloth one that would otherwise be slightly oversized for my face. For me, it cuts down on glasses fogging. What has your experience been that it’s an MFer?

  32. 32.

    Ken

    @Jeffro: I think it’s funny…ok, almost funny…that the 10 Very Serious and Not At All ‘Q’ Republican Senators came to President Biden with a proposal that was an insulting third the size of what’s needed and…got zip.

    Different framing:  They got everything they asked for – and even more!

  36. 36.

    NotMax

    @debbie

    as Trump Day to celebrate his accomplishments.

    And what do they have planned for the other 23 hours and 59½ minutes?

    //

    Usurping Flag Day. Of course that’s why they chose the date.

  38. 38.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @rikyrah: I have trouble with my ears supporting two masks. I use clips that pull the ear loops to the back of my neck. It also tightens the masks against my face so that my glasses don’t fog.

  39. 39.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @debbie:

    Someone needs to remind the GOP of past half-measures that only served to lengthen the emergency.

    As Mitch McConnell famously said, you might be confusing me (and the GOP) with someone who cares. [Paraphrase based on memory; too lazy to Google.]

  47. 47.

    zhena gogolia

    @rikyrah:

    Can you get the 3-ply papery one to go under the cloth? That’s what I wore yesterday and it was fairly comfortable. Suppsedly the under mask works as a filter.

  51. 51.

    Brachiator

    A quick post from an insomnia fog. The GOP is trying hard to reduce the amount of stimulus payments and the extent of payments by insisting that they must be targeted to those who really need it.  They never let these considerations stop them when they roll out benefits to the wealthy.

    For example, instead of a $75,000 threshold for single people, one proposal would reduce this to $40,000. And yet, even a story linked here earlier suggested that people with incomes around $65,000 spent their stimulus checks, suggesting that they really needed the money and put it to immediate use.

    There are indications that Biden would like to get this bill signed by March 14. The first checks would flow soon after.

    For another approach to subsidizing workers, check out stories about the Australia JobKeeper program. This program is or may be extended soon, and subsidizes business by as much as $1500 AUS a fortnight that retain workers.

    Sorry for no links. But look for attempts to sell reduced stimulus payments in a flood of news stories.

    Also, the GOP realizes that if more people get payments, it helps future Biden efforts.

  52. 52.

    Hoodie

    @Jeffro: The things the Dems should have learned by now are (1) the GOP doesn’t give a rat’s ass about fiscal responsibility and (2) there’s no point in worrying about fiscal responsibility if the other party isn’t serious about it and is instead simply invested  in making sure you fail.  Prime example being Clinton delivered fiscal responsibility from ’92 – ’00 and all that happened is that the first thing Bush (who was not particularly popular at the time) did was enact a bunch of unnecessary and economically suboptimal tax cuts for rich people.  This was repeated by Trump who, after inheriting an economy on the mend after years of painstaking rebuilding under Obama, enacted another massive tax cut that was completely unnecessary to stimulate the economy when interest rates were at historic lows and mostly led a massive amounts of corporate stock buybacks that caused asset inflation that made a some white people with relatively illiquid 401(k)s feel like they’re rich when they really aren’t.  The lesson for the Dems is to make the commitment to spend whatever you think you need to implement your agenda, just make sure that what you’re committed to has a decent chance of succeeding, and don’t sabotage the chance of success by penny pinching.  If you fail, so be it.  If you do succeed but the people (and that includes Dems who don’t bother to vote) are stupid enough to elect Republicans after that they deserve what they get.

  53. 53.

    M31

    @Baud: We didn’t have a long protracted debate about the 2009 stimulus,

    who needs a long debate when fucking Larry Summers is on the inside

  54. 54.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: We didn’t have a long protracted debate about the 2009 stimulus, which is the relevant analogy.

    No, the more apt way to phrase it would be to not let Republicans negotiate away the majority of the bill in bad faith, which is what happened with the stimulus bill.  There was a debate over it, but nothing like what happened with the ACA. Nothing like that should ever happen again.

  56. 56.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @rikyrah: Yeah, double cloth masks didn’t work for me. I felt like I was suffocating. For whatever reason, the blue paper surgical mask under a cloth mask doesn’t do that to me. If you get a chance, try mix-and-match. Also, recall that the inventor of N95 masks found that a homemade mask made from blue shop paper towels is better than almost any other solution:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXPSWUT/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_WZ4VR1XJCBF8K7B35V7F?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

  57. 57.

    Immanentize

    Also to note, Liz Cheney remains the leadership foil to Qevin McQarthy.  By a big margin in a secret ballot.  Greene must be sweating a bit if she has any self preservation motives.

  58. 58.

    Soprano2

    @debbie: Someone needs to remind the GOP of past half-measures that only served to lengthen the emergency.

    That was a feature, not a bug. They’ll do it again if they get a chance.

  59. 59.

    Soprano2

    @NotMax: It gives me the shudders to even think about driving on those roads when they’re icy! To me driving up that mountain was much scarier than driving to Hana. They need a lot more rails on the curves IMHO.

  61. 61.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    Baud at #3 (editor not working):

    The “2009” reference is to the protracted ACA wrangling. More apparent in the comments to that tweet.

  62. 62.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    In vaccine distribution news, at my writer group zoom last night, an older woman said she’d been able to get a vaccine appointment at Walgreen when she checked their site at 5 am yesterday. Her appointment is for Friday. Also, a young guy who works at Jewel-Osco said he was getting one today from his employer.

  64. 64.

    Hoodie

    @Immanentize: I doubt Greene is sweating anything given her lack of self-awareness.  McCarthy should be sweating buckets, but I guess he’s too stupid to realize the powder keg he’s sitting on.   Why you wouldn’t throw that idiot Greene under the bus is beyond me.   It’s not like they can’t find a GOP replacement for her, they can just say they didn’t realize what a nutcase she is.

  65. 65.

    Peale

    @Soprano2: I think the lesson is make sure that help to the citizenry needs to be included from the beginning. Yeah, they got the unemployment enhancements in the first bill. But the focus was on stabilising the financial system and auto industry. (Which was important, btw. Recovery would have been difficult without a functioning modern financial system). When it came time to help homeowners, though, months later, that’s when Cavuto did his “losers!” Dance that launched the TEA party and the right had landed on Carter ending redlining and lending to black people as the cause of the collapse. So the himeborrowers ended up with nothing.

  68. 68.

    Baud

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    Maybe the real lesson from 2009 is that we can accomplish more when people aren’t shouting “Kill the Bill” because it doesn’t go far enough for some people’s taste.

  69. 69.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    I’ve given up trying to set the record straight.  The bullshit is so ingrained that it’s impossible to counter.

  70. 70.

    hueyplong

    @Baud:

     

    @Baud: “Instead of fireworks, we’ll top off the day by throwing Trump’s kids in cages.”

    Slight amendment submitted for approval.

  72. 72.

    MomSense

    @debbie:

    The problem with the stupid income cap is that it’s based on 2019 tax returns and a lot of people have lost their jobs or had their income significantly reduced so it’s going to leave out people who are desperate for assistance.

  73. 73.

    NotMax

    @Soprano2

    When I moved here there was no such thing as guard rails on the side of the road to Hana anywhere past the Twin Falls bridge at mile marker 2.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @MomSense:

    It’s the Law of Conservation of Democratic Self Hate in action. If Biden is praised, one or more other Democrats must be dissed.

  79. 79.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Immanentize: I’d say this is going almost perfectly for MTG. Perfect would’ve been if her own party snatched her off of committees — martyred by RHINOS and the Deep State!! And having Cheney around as an enemy is a good thing for MTG, too. When the Dems toss sorry ass in the trash bin, then she’ll be martyred by the true enemy: the commies!!!!

    And MTG is GREAT for the Democrats. Once she’s tossed off committees, she won’t be able to do much harm (not that she could do much real harm anyway), but she’ll be a bright shining beacon, constantly reminding the world (and voters) how nasty and really crazy the GQP is. She’ll also constantly disrupt GQP initiatives any time the spotlight even briefly wanders off to another topic.

  82. 82.

    Nicole

    @SFAW:

    But they’ll use “Sure, the Democrats gave me money, but they gave the same amount of money to THOSE PEOPLE, who aren’t really deserving.” But, as you noted in your next sentence, they weren’t going to vote for Dems in the first place.

    That’s why I don’t see a downside.  The people you cite (and yeah, they’re certainly out there) are voting based on bigotry, not economics.

  84. 84.

    germy

    Notice how when the party of white nationalists controls the levers of power, it's "my way or the highway," but the minute they lose some of that power, they turn into victims whining about bipartisanship.

    Don't fall for it Democrats.

    Fortune favors the bold.

    Be aggressive!

    — Kurt Bardella (@kurtbardella) February 3, 2021

    I think the Democrats are doing fine. I’m optimistic for the first time in years.

  85. 85.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    The recovery act was signed into law on February 17th.  We didn’t even know the full extent of the recession at that point.  Prominent Dems were speaking publicly about much smaller stimulus.  Then the false story came out that Summers put the kabosh in larger stimulus and finally a year later or so the host of marketplace asked him about it and he said that no, the entire team wanted a larger stimulus package but they didn’t have congressional support for it so they proposed the largest package they thought they could get passed.

  88. 88.

    hueyplong

    This (at least so far) efficient and competent rush to do good has to be fueled in part by seething through four long years of Divine Right rule by a racist, rapist, malignant narcissist and his slathering minions.

    It’s almost too much like finally going to war against Hitler and resolving to finish the MF, with wasted time or effort being severely discouraged.

  90. 90.

    Immanentize

    @Chief Oshkosh: Greene is certainly making a lot of bank off the shit she stirred.  But that gun lady from Colorado sure is quiet.  I suspect, contrary to her public statements, that maybe she did lead some Proud Boy tours on the 3rd through the 5th.

  93. 93.

    Barbara

    @Baud: ​
     We had a big protracted debate about the ACA and fucking POS Olympia Snowe voted against it anyway. So the analogy is a good one even if it doesn’t apply to ARRA.

  94. 94.

    hueyplong

    @Immanentize: Agree.  The CO gun lady is probably sweating possible criminal charges.

    Doesn’t mean MTG isn’t.  She’s just more likely to attempt to brazen through.  She’s high on her own supply right now.

  95. 95.

    brantl

    @debbie:  Tell them that after they make dedicated cemeteries for all of the coronovirus victims, then they can celibrate Trump day, so long as they do it in those dedicated cemeteries.

  96. 96.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    I’m waiting for the un-redacted Mueller report. That may make a few headlines.

  97. 97.

    Barbara

    @Immanentize: ​
     Noticed her relative silence as well. Asume the FBI has asked about her tweets re Pelosi’s location, because someone in the know was giving real-time information to the marauders.

  98. 98.

    NotMax

    @Immanentize

    it’s possible but couldn’t have been much in the way of a tour. What with her having only been sworn in on the 3rd she quite likely still needed to ask directions to the rest rooms. The place, especially below ground floor level, is a warren.

  99. 99.

    germy

    UPDATE: Rittenhouse’s attorney says they intentionally wrote the wrong address on court papers after being advised to do so by a “high-ranking member of the Kenosha Police Department.” This, the defense claims, was to protect the location of a “safe house” for the defendant. https://t.co/FGGKcHAYHm

    — Colin Kalmbacher (@colinkalmbacher) February 4, 2021

    Never heard of a sealing order? https://t.co/jThk0yORZT

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) February 4, 2021

  100. 100.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: When I was in Hawaii about 6? years back, we took a boat tour from a Captain who was one of the near-originals there.  It is an evocative story line.  Surprised there is no movie.

  102. 102.

    brantl

    @SFAW: Why not Qevin McQarthy? What’s worth doing is worth doing well…. They would know that the mis-spelling is deliberate, then.

  103. 103.

    Barbara

    @germy: ​ They lied to the court. The only defense for Rittenhouse is that he likely didn’t make the relevant decisions and the court probably isn’t inclined to punish him for the malfeasance of others.

  104. 104.

    TS (the original)

    @Brachiator:

    For another approach to subsidizing workers, check out stories about the Australia JobKeeper program. This program is or may be extended soon, and subsidizes business by as much as $1500 AUS a fortnight that retain workers.

    This has been running for 10 months It is due to finish at the end of March. The amount has been reduced since November.

    In parallel,  the lowest income groups (unemployed & various low income family groups) received an extra $500 per fortnight from April until October. It has since been lowered and will also disappear in March.

    We also had moratoriums on rent increases which are also gone at the end of March.

    This could change if Australia suffers a major covid incident.

    Australia is virtually covid free at the moment, with small numbers of cases from overseas people entering the country.  The economy is getting back to normal, although areas such as tourism, people entering for education are still having major financial issues. Travel in/out of the country is severely limited.

  106. 106.

    Roger Moore

    @Jeffro: 

    One would think that at 97% Dem support, we might…just might…get one measly “DEMS IN ARRAY!” story.

    Instead of “Dems in array”, we get either “Dems pass in a party-line vote” or “Bipartisan agreement”. There’s never a case where the Democrats get credit for being better organized than the Republicans. The narrative must always be followed.

  107. 107.

    hueyplong

    @Baud: The tweeter quoted above dispensed with that lame argument.  You give the court the correct address and file any docs that reference it under seal.

    They should consider pursuing the person “high up in the Kenosha police dept.”

  109. 109.

    WaterGirl

    @rikyrah:  About double masking…

    Not sure what you have tried so far.

    I tried two cloth masks and they both got damp.  (A couple of months ago.)

    I tried a surgical mask under my cloth mask, and it was awful.

    I tried the cloth mask next to my face, with the surgical mask on top, and I couldn’t tell the difference between that and just wearing the cloth mask.  But the protection was better.

    In case that’s useful.

  112. 112.

    Ken

    @germy: @Baud: I am also intrigued that the Kenosha police are facilitating a safe house for a criminal defendant.  I suspect it’s not something they do for every (alleged) murderer.

  113. 113.

    hueyplong

    @Ken: It’s left over from their prior, consistent use of such houses to protect both Black Panthers and New Black Panthers.

    Or not.

  115. 115.

    WaterGirl

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Here in Champaign, also in Illinois, essential workers (including grocery store people) started getting vaccinated this week.

    After your comment, I am guessing that is a state-wide thing, which is great.

  116. 116.

    Jeffro

    @Ken:Different framing:  They got everything they asked for – and even more!

    LOL

    That’s probably their best chance at spinning this debacle, that’s for sure.

  118. 118.

    Immanentize

    @Barbara: I love your optimism!  Defendants — well, POC defendants — are always punished for their lawyers wrong doing.  That’s what habeas restriction in ineffective claims is for!  Blame the defendant.

  120. 120.

    Jeffro

    @Hoodie:Prime example being Clinton delivered fiscal responsibility from ’92 – ’00 and all that happened is that the first thing Bush (who was not particularly popular at the time) did was enact a bunch of unnecessary and economically suboptimal tax cuts for rich people.

    Truth.  No point in us Dems being responsible if the Republicans are just going to ‘raid the cookie jar’, claw back all those gains, and give them to rich folks.

  123. 123.

    WaterGirl

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    The Crazy QAnon Lady Greene was a guaranteed no vote for anything that would be good for education, and a guaranteed yes vote for anything that would be bad for eduction.

    Same for her other committee.  The choice of those two committees for her was a stick in the eye to Democrats and to anyone who is serious about governing – but I repeat myself!

  126. 126.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl: McQarthy’ theory that her most egregious acts were before she was elected are just a further extension of: can’t punish people for what they do as president, can’t punish them after they leave office, now there are no punishments for what was done before entering office.

  128. 128.

    Central Planning

    @Brachiator:

    Also, the GOP realizes that if more people get payments, it helps future Biden efforts.

    The GOP is so fucking stupid that they don’t even realize the payments would help THEM too if they went along with them.

    Also, too: @WaterGirl: Still having the Reply problem with the Visual box not accepting text. Before I refreshed the page, I could also NOT type in a new Reply at the bottom of the page. Refreshing the page solved it.

  131. 131.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: These people are the most entitled creatures I have ever seen.  We have to find a way to stop them, and I hope we persist until we figure out what that way is.

    We surely need to work against them on about a hundred fronts at the same time, because there’s no one thing that can stop them.

  134. 134.

    WaterGirl

    @Central Planning: Thanks for the update.  It’s working sporadically for some people.  I keep hoping for a Firefox update soon.  Cole says we will give Firefox until Valentine’s Day to come out with an update that will hopefully resolve this.

  135. 135.

    Ken

    @germy: Of course he claims that, he’s one of the Jewish lizard-people from Rigel who are using Hoover Dam to send quantum entangled messages to their Illuminati overlords.  Wake up, sheeple!

  137. 137.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Joey Maloney: ​
      Well, since Dems finally have control of the committees, Merrick Garland can actually start having his confirmation hearings for AG.

  138. 138.

    Immanentize

    @Central Planning:

    The GOP is so fucking stupid that they don’t even realize the payments would help THEM too if they went along with them.

    I think Biden had a good play here which he hasn’t tried — go to the States’ governors and ask what they want. Take Maine as one example. Collins is ONE Senator from Maine, King is the other. He is on board with the bill to help his constituents. I am pretty sure Maine’s Governor is too. Just like Gov. Justice in W.Va is.

    This would separate Republicans from their voters.

  139. 139.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @WaterGirl: ​
      Did they break Javascript or something? What is the issue and why is it restricted to this version of Firefox?

  140. 140.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Ken: I am also intrigued that the Kenosha police are facilitating a safe house for a criminal defendant. I suspect it’s not something they do for every (alleged) murderer.

    Of course they do. They’re called “jails”.

  147. 147.

    germy

    @WaterGirl:

    I have a feeling they love the hell out of everybody, especially Joe and Jill.  I get a “We’re delighted to be here” impression from their photos.

  150. 150.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Immanentize: ​
      This isn’t ineffective assistance of counsel though. This appears to be counsel facilitating a deception of the court. That could piss the judge off at counsel. I mean WTF?!

  153. 153.

    hueyplong

    @Omnes Omnibus: The tell is the lawyers saying it was done on advice of some unknown person.  They’re in ever-warming water with the judge and the state bar.

  154. 154.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: I know.  I’m sure it will piss off any normal judge.

    But Rittenhouse has gotten white glove service so far.

    Revoke Kyle’s bail. Show cause hearing for counsel at dawn.  Bring your toothbrush(s).

    That’s what should happen.

    ETA I was just responding to Barbara’s comment that she didn’t think the Judge would punish the defendant for the sins of counsel

  157. 157.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Immanentize: ​
     

    Revoke Kyle’s bail. Show cause hearing for counsel at dawn. Bring your toothbrush(s).

    That’s what should happen.

    No disagreement.

  158. 158.

    Eolirin

    I keep thinking it’d be a massive missed opportunity, given that the covid relief bill is taking up a limited reconciliation slot, to not undo the Trump tax cuts at the same time.

  164. 164.

    hueyplong

    @Immanentize: Love “bring your toothbrushes” instruction to lawyers.

    I’ve been told that before., though it was BS from opposing counsel.  But it kind of gives you the yips.

  170. 170.

    artem1s

    Democrats: 97% support, 3% oppose independents: 68%-25% Republicans: 37%-47%

    OK, time for this both-siderism to stop.  What are the raw numbers?  Registered GQPers are a shrinking minority party.  37% of Rs are not the same as 37% I’s or D’s.  Nor is 100% R’s 1/3 of the total of these three groups.  Time for the WH Communication office to start pairing these polling results up with total numbers.  The Deplorables need to see that they are in a shrinking minority and their neighbors and families are fed up with their extremist views.  Corporations need to see their customer base is shrinking if they are aligning their advertising and communications to attract voters in that group.

  171. 171.

    Immanentize

    @hueyplong: When I interned at Public Defender Service in DC, one of my supervising attorneys used to take a toothbrush to court with him, in his suit jacket pocket, during every trial just to demonstrate his FU! attitude to the Judges.

  172. 172.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Baud: ​

     

    Baud

    February 4, 2021 at 8:54 am

    @MomSense:

    Does Obama get into it in his book? That to me would be the authoritative source.

    Yes, he does. At length. :)

    As with much of the book, I found it interesting to compare the details with the abbreviated and un-nuanced versions of most reporting at the time.

  175. 175.

    H.E.Wolf

    Note to WaterGirl: “sporadic” is a good description of the FireFox browser bug. The Visual option is bugged-up again for me (version 84).

    Ah well, I can possess my soul in patience until mid-month….

  176. 176.

    artem1s

    @Baud:

    We didn’t have a long protracted debate about the 2009 stimulus, which is the relevant analogy.

    Obama did work behind the scenes with GOP leaders and then conceded to Collins and lowered the total amount to less than $900M because bipartisan unity ponies.  He thought they were negotiating in good faith and would pass a bipartisan bill. They got what they wanted and still didn’t vote for it.  that’s the lesson learned.  They do not negotiate in good faith. so don’t bother.

  178. 178.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: This is not hard.  Send everyone checks, then treat it as taxable income.  Those owing nothing will pay nothing.  Others will pay a third or 28% or whatever their bracket is.  This can work with UBI too.

  180. 180.

    MomSense

    @Barbara:

    Yes, but the fact is that our strategy (I was working on this as a volunteer organizer) was to get the best possible version of the bill out of the Senate Finance Committee.  Even though she was not the ranking member, she was probably the most influential deal maker.  In fact in the summer of 2009 she was trying to keep a version of the public option against Max Baucus’ objections.  I know because she told me.

    The version of the bill that eventually became law was the Senate Finance Committee’s version and she voted to move the bill out of committee.  So we got what we wanted and it was a fucking slog to get it done.

  181. 181.

    MomSense

    @artem1s:

    Collins, Snowe and Specter all voted for the American Recovery Act. We needed their votes because of the Illinois and Minnesota Senate Seat clusterfucks.

  182. 182.

    Brachiator

    @Eolirin:

    I keep thinking it’d be a massive missed opportunity, given that the covid relief bill is taking up a limited reconciliation slot, to not undo the Trump tax cuts at the same time.

    This is a much bigger task. The Democrats have to revise the tax code, not just undo tax cuts. They have to look at what the GOP did for individuals, corporations and estates.

    Also, the Democrats probably should increase some tax cuts for the lower and middle class.

  183. 183.

    Quiltingfool

    @OzarkHillbilly: My dad got a Pfizer shot yesterday.  He lives in the KC area.  Some family members in Johnson and Henry counties got theirs a couple of weeks ago.  I know folks in Camden Co who received the vaccine this week, so maybe things are looking up.  Anecdotal, yes, and those people are elderly, so…
    Maybe some areas in Missouri are more on the ball than others, which would not surprise me at all.  I’m in the Tier 3 category, which is at the very end of the line, so who knows when.  I think the Biden Admin being in charge is a godsend.

  186. 186.

    Brachiator

    @Immanentize:

    This is not hard.  Send everyone checks, then treat it as taxable income.  Those owing nothing will pay nothing.

    No. One of the great values of the current approach of a tax free rebate is that it maximizes the net income available to those who get it.

    If you made the amounts taxable, not only would the total amount available shrink, a lot of lower income people would lose some credits that they currently receive, such as the Earned Income Credit and the Child Tax Credit. Some of them would end up with a tax balance instead of having a rebate to spend. What’s the point of that?

    Upper income groups would often end up with tax balances or no net benefit. Again, what would be the value of that to the economy?

  188. 188.

    Brachiator

    @MomSense:

    The problem with the stupid income cap is that it’s based on 2019 tax returns and a lot of people have lost their jobs or had their income significantly reduced so it’s going to leave out people who are desperate for assistance.

    There is a worksheet that allows some people to get some of the rebate when they file their 2020 tax returns.

    There is also an option which lets some lower income people use their 2019 earned income to calculate certain credits if their 2020 income was reduced from job losses.

  189. 189.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Brachiator:

    The GOP is trying hard to reduce the amount of stimulus payments and the extent of payments by insisting that they must be targeted to those who really need it.  They never let these considerations stop them when they roll out benefits to the wealthy.

    Yep, and our social-media betters are already preemptively blaming Democrats for letting it happen.

  191. 191.

    Barbara

    @MomSense: ​I will add one more thing: Snowe asking for public option was probably designed to help ensure that others — as in Baucus and Lieberman — would make the defeat bipartisan. Sorry, whatever admiration I ever had for Snowe or Collins has been submerged by an overwhelming tide of evidence that they are no better than those around them. Being genteel and polite does not mean better.​​

  192. 192.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Baud:We didn’t have a long protracted debate about the 2009 stimulus,

    If I recall correctly the real mess was the Bankers that the 2009 stimulus saved whined for years about how come Obama wasn’t praising them as heroes for having their banks bailed out.  The real test is going to be how Biden handles the people who will resent not dying from Covid.

  193. 193.

    MomSense

    @Barbara:

    The public option was not part of the Senate Finance Committee’s version of the bill.  I’m not trying to give her credit, but I am trying to provide some context.  She and her staff had actually done significant research on the public option as it relates to Maine. Maine had already expanded Medicaid as part of our attempt to have universal coverage in Maine (Dirigo).  There were prominent Republicans including her husband who supported it.  McConnell threatened her if she voted for it on committee and she did anyway.  He is a clever, evil person so he knew that if the Republicans delayed it, then outside interests would go to town on her.  They did. Collins was there for the assist in calling for more time.  I think if the bill had come up for a vote in August, Snowe would have voted yes.

  194. 194.

    Barbara

    @MomSense: ​If she felt that put upon by McConnell she could have pulled a Jim Jeffreys and made herself an independent to caucus with the Dems. She is from a state where she was highly unlikely to pay any price for doing the right thing. She voted AGAINST the final bill.​

    I mean, don’t you feel a little silly defending Snowe, when the “rest of the story” is that the bill passed, and Kentucky expanded Medicaid lickety split while Maine didn’t? Fuck Olympia Snowe. She did the wrong thing and the context doesn’t really matter in the end.

  195. 195.

    MomSense

    @Barbara:

    Maine had already expanded Medicaid in 2005. In 2010 Maine elected LePage who was a prototrump and switched to a Republican legislature because the ACA became so unpopular because of all the anti ACA ads that targeted our state.  It was the Republican legislature and LePage who actually kicked people off Medicaid by lowering the income eligibility and some other evil shit to kick everyone without dependents off.  Like I said, that delay cost us big time.

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