Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

The words do not have to be perfect.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

The revolution will be supervised.

People are complicated. Love is not.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Impeachment Trial Day 4 Open Thread

Impeachment Trial Day 4 Open Thread

by | 244 Comments

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Here’s the usual CSPAN2 feed on YouTube:

I expect TV ratings will plummet since Trump clowns Awshucks McRamble and Thirsty Yellington are up, but I’m going to try to catch some of it as time permits. One of the clown lawyers told NBC they might wrap up in as little as three hours. How many times can you equate Sarah Huckabee Sanders being politely asked to leave a restaurant with a comped cheese plate and a mob scene at the U.S. Capitol Building that was reminiscent of the fall of Osgiliath? Viewers are about to find out.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

244Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    Thank you.  I guess.

    Gonna listen to the NY Philharmonic playing Brahms’ First now.  Alec Baldwin hosts the program. https://vpm.org/listen/stream?channel=music

    Could be lovely to listen to Brahms while watching these asshats ply their, uh, trade with the C-Span feed on mute.

    First up is some newish composition from 1985.  But Brahms will eventually arrive.

  2. 2.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Emmanuel Felton @emmanuelfelton ·39m
    My latest: Capitol police officers are still furious about how their bosses failed them before and during the Jan. 6 riot. Today, they’re casting ballots in a no confidence vote in leadership. They say they want accountability not just “political theater.”

    Have any of the police union thugs from last summer been hounded through the streets of NYC and Chicago to ask how they feel about the trump mob? Has every political hack who ever tweeted “Blue Lives Matter”, or wore a mask or a baseball cap with that message, been asked to explain?

    On topic: the MSNBC recaps should be more than enough for today.

  3. 3.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    I quit Facebook after my last 30 day ban end of last year. Yesterday I joined NextDoor and OMG it feels like I’ve made the transition successfully from middle-age to senior.  I get a daily digest of all the crime and weird noises in the neighborhood which I loudly share with Mrs. Fuckhead in the other room.

  5. 5.

    M31

    lol these lawyers really got nothing, reduced to playing clips of Trump saying “we will never defund our police”

    what?

    I can’t take more than 10 seconds at a time

  9. 9.

    bjacques

    I’m stuck at work another couple of hours, but one of the benefits of working from home is listening to the tragic impeachment defense while listening to horror movie soundtracks. Now up: Suspiria by Thom Yorke

  10. 10.

    Jinchi

    I always like to point out that Huckabee-Sanders was denied service by a restaurant about a week after she celebrated the Supreme Court ruling allowing businesses to deny service to people they considered immoral (aka gay people).

  14. 14.

    zhena gogolia

    I can’t watch these people. I’ll wait for the recaps like MMMM

    I can’t even stand Aaron Rupar’s clips.

  15. 15.

    Hildebrand

    We are not watching today’s Senate train wreck. We have the Cornell Feeder Webcam on the television.  Much better choice for today.

  16. 16.

    Almost Retired

    I am bravely watching the entire presentation live, rather than waiting for the recaps. Thank you, gin.

  17. 17.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Jinchi: in Lexington, VA–the greatest college town in Rockbridge County!

    @Jinchi: it is.  You can quit, but your account isn’t deleted.  FB keeps all your data, even continues building a file on you.  If you ever check on your account to make sure it’s still gone, FB automatically reactivates it.

  19. 19.

    HalfAssedHomesteader

    I guess I’ll never be smart enough to comprehend arguments about due process being denied that are made during the trial which is the main element of due process.

  22. 22.

    Almost Retired

    What about Jefferson Davis?  He was a member of the Democrat party.  Why aren’t we talking about him?

  23. 23.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    I tried to watch, but the defense lawyer was running an Eisenstein Potemkin-level montage of Trump talking law and order intercut with various Democrats talking about wanting to punch people, and I just couldn’t take it. I’ll let my MSNBC girls Nicolle, Claire and Joy break it down for me later.

  27. 27.

    PPCLI

    @Steeplejack (phone): Would that be the same Trump who said he would pay the legal bills of anyone who beat up a protester in one of his rallies? His concern for law and order was rather selective, it seems.

  29. 29.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Jinchi: A poor choice of words on my part. I was put in FB jail. That means one can continue to earn them revenue with ones eyeballs but one can’t post anything or comment on anything. Really a genius idea on their part.

  35. 35.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve only been on there one day but it doesn’t seem as bad as I heard it was. The weirdest part is seeing someone reply to me using my actual name.

    I imagine my smart mouth will get me in trouble at some point. One neighbor posted about the Saturday morning Republican meeting at the local breakfast joint and I replied, “Are you all putting together another insurrection or this about something else?”

  36. 36.

    bjacques

    Schoen’s Pettifoggery in parsing the tweets is impressive. You say “cavalry” I say “Calvary”. Much more effort than is needed in front of the Republican Senators.

    “Unity” gets a mention. DRINK! Republicans are pounding Unity more than Hitler did 1935 to 1939.

  39. 39.

    wenchacha

    I don’t plan to watch, either. I can wait for the highlights from Colbert or Meyers.

    Curious about this: are all Democratic Senators present? If anyone should feel guiltless about not attending a day of the proceedings, it should be them.

  41. 41.

    waratah

    I spent years not listening to the garbage that Trump spouted but now they are using it for his defense.

  42. 42.

    Mike in NC

    We lost interest in the NextDoor app after some bozo whined about having her Trump yard sign stolen several months ago (at the time “only” 40K people had died of the virus). It’s basically Fox News Lite for your ZIP code.

  48. 48.

    Old School

    @SiubhanDuinne: The Impeachment managers took Trump’s words out of context.   That’s the worst thing you can do.  Now let’s not show context for lots of other people.

  49. 49.

    germy

    My local public radio station is carrying this.

     

    Strangely enough, they didn’t carry the Democrats’ testimony.

  53. 53.

    West of the Rockies

    Somehow I’m guessing Amy Klobuchar is not in the gallery with her feet up and playing solitaire on her phone.

    Is that where Homely Hawley is again?

  55. 55.

    gvg

    My nextdoor seems to be endless lost pets and appeals for good repairmen.  Once in a while it devolves into political stupidity but most people seem to be aware its a good idea to not go there.

  59. 59.

    stinger

    Was just thinking how pleasant it was to see/hear all these clips of great Democrats, then then here came Hillary!  So happy!

  62. 62.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Mike in NC: Probably depends on your zip code. Our NDN is a fairly liberal place. Every once in a while a WATB shows up, nearly always a “conservative,” and they get made fun of. A lot. And sometimes have to be reminded that they are no longer hiding behind a nym, and should behave accordingly. You know, like a sane adult.

  63. 63.

    Ken

    I’m not watching (full disclosure, I haven’t watched any of it).  Someone post an alert if Trump’s lawyers come right out and say “We all know the fix is in, and the Republicans are spineless cowards.”

  65. 65.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @gvg: Yeah, those are definitely top themes. Maybe a function of the relative lavish area I live in but the “looking for a handyman” posts always seem to be advancing ones affluence. “We’re putting in a three story circular staircase and we’re looking for someone who can..”

  69. 69.

    TaMara (HFG)

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Nextdoor has netted me three ducks and helped me “find” the lost owners of various critters that have wandered into my yard and helped me get an injured, found chameleon to rehab and a new home.

    And I found the most awesome 1930s Art Deco dresser for a steal.

    It definitely has its pluses and minuses. Not too many busybody posts where I live, so entertainment value is limited. LOL

  71. 71.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Ken:  Someone post an alert if Trump’s lawyers come right out and say “We all know the fix is in, and the Republicans are spineless cowards.”

    It sounds like they have, in an oddly inverted way; the message is the Democrats are horrifying monsters because they hold people account for their past actions.

  72. 72.

    wvng

    @Ken: ” Someone post an alert if Trump’s lawyers come right out and ” drop their pants, take a shit on the Senate floor. Because why not, really. They are doing that figuratively.

  73. 73.

    Leto

    Had it on for about 5 secs, saw the bad faith, and turned on WandaVision. I’ll catch a recap later tonight, otherwise I need to go watch the snow melt

    Edit: also it looks like one large Fox News segment, so yeah, double/triple nope out.

  79. 79.

    Quinerly

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I live in a historic district in inner city St. Louis. Been here since1984. We have become very gentrified in the last 15 years. I found Next Door to be extremely racist. Kids from suburbia moving to Apts in the city to be near the music and bar scene freaking out over every noise in their alleys, every homeless person camped out near the churches that shelter at night, and…. Total freak out if a Black guy is walking from point A to point B on the sidewalk. Every little thing reported on Next Door…. wanting to know if the police should be called. The most evil bragged about breaking glass and “planting” the shards to cut anyone going thru the dumpsters. I had to get off the site. Stayed too angry.

  80. 80.

    Benw

    I once again cannot understand how someone is willing to make such a colossal fool of themselves as these guys for fucking Donald Trump

  86. 86.

    Geminid

    @Amir Khalid: The local newspaper used to feature a column by a retired Army Colonel who had served as a cavalry officer in the 1930s. He wrote that while officers called their branch “the cavalry,” enlisted men called it “the calvary.”

  87. 87.

    dfh

    I tuned in right after coming home from a colonoscopy (all good) and a bit tipsy, and I saw a series of Democratic women saying the word “fight”. WTF. But ah, it’s a direct comparison with Shitgibbon saying “fight” on the 6th.

    Totally equal, of course.

    Now headed for a nap. Viva la meds.

  88. 88.

    Elizabelle

    @Timill:   Thank you!

    @ Suibuinn um, whatever, Subaru:  Noted. Trust you on all things operatic, especially on works I have never heard of before …

    In sharing info on cool cultural stuff that has zip, zero, nothing to do with these ridiculous trump defense lawyers, however theatric they may intend to be:

    FTF NY Times: Review: Shakespeare’s Baddies Convene in ‘All the Devils Are Here’

    Patrick Page writes and stars in a meditation on the Bard’s villains, moving swiftly through a catalog of characters as if he were a chameleon.

    Prospero steps out onto the stage, a sturdy white staff and book in hand. He kneels, opens the book and strikes the stage three times. As the last heavy thud echoes throughout the empty theater, the lights dim to an icy, concentrated glow. This is the magician, and this is his art.

    But it isn’t actually Shakespeare’s vengeful sorcerer we’re seeing; this is Patrick Page, and when he opens his mouth, it’s not Prospero but Lady Macbeth who speaks, in a jagged whisper. It’s a summoning: “Come, you spirits that tend on mortal thoughts.”

    It’s enough to make you shiver, and fitting for a play called “All the Devils Are Here: How Shakespeare Invented the Villain,” an enchanting one-man show full of Shakespeare’s vilest, silliest and most misunderstood characters: the baddies. Produced by the Shakespeare Theater Company at Sidney Harman Hall in Washington, and directed by Alan Paul, “All the Devils Are Here” is a chronological catalog of Shakespeare’s villains — including the lady with stains on her hands that no amount of Purell can get out, and the cuckolding, crown-stealing sibling. Page, who also wrote the script (and is lately known for his performance as another grand villain, Hades, in the musical “Hadestown”), begins with some general context, bringing us back in time to the flimsy villains that showed up in 16th century morality plays and how a young Shakespeare, influenced by such shows and those of his contemporary Christopher Marlowe, first broached the role of the villain in his early works.

    In the roughly 80-minute production …

    Virtual, of course. Tickets are $25; link is good for 72 hours after purchase. Link to DC’s Shakespeare Theatre Company website.

    Streaming through July 28. I could learn up on some villains.

  89. 89.

    neldob

    lots of out of context sound bites. Now, hatred is dangerous and no one should do it. But this is much better than their first presentation.

  90. 90.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right? And no one replies to emails either. I had someone tell me to text a referral. “Don’t call him, he won’t answer. Text him and he might answer.” I think this was caused by the college boom. All the responsible people were told they had to get a college degree.

  91. 91.

    JanieM

    @Quinerly: Just the postcard inviting me to sign up for NextDoor felt so creepy I ignored it. Then again, I’ve never been on Facebook either.

  92. 92.

    MisterForkbeard

    So as predicted, they’re taking a bunch of a Democrats out of context where they said “fight for X” talking about voting, or asking congressfolk to do something and claiming that’s the same as Trump’s months-long lying and screaming about Democrats stealing the election, then physically directing his people to join an ongoing physical attack on Congress to illegally overturn an election.

    I really, really want there to be consequences for this behavior. Both for Trump, and the endless gaslighting by the entire republican party and their horrible fucking lawyers. Physical consequences. It’d be great if they were just spit on constantly for the rest of their lives.

  93. 93.

    citizen dave

    @Benw: Yup.  Will never understand this.  Yesterday I saw a Punisher sticker on the back of the car (I educated myself on this symbol a few weeks back), only this one had the T—- blonde hair on top of the skull.

    On what planet could anyone look/hear/view that guy and think, that’s a tough man, a fighter, etc.

    Will never understand.

  94. 94.

    Amir Khalid

    Oh goodness. Van der Veen is playing Schoen’s video again. Couldn’t he have come up with his own video?

  95. 95.

    stinger

    Kamala Harris is a MURDERER!!!!

    As proven by her jokes on the Ellen DeGeneres show. So leave Trump ALOOOOOOOOOOONE.

  96. 96.

    Kent

    Is this shit show even worth watching?  I can’t bear to even turn on the TV this morning.  I don’t need my blood to boil.  I figure I’ll just watch Maddow’s recap tonight.

  100. 100.

    stinger

    Now let’s all stand and say the pledge of allegiance. If the oath don’t fit, you must acquit. I rest my case.

    –Schoen

  101. 101.

    Amir Khalid

    More off-topic speechifying. If Trump is not paying these guys, he’s getting his money’s worth.

  102. 102.

    patrick II

    Republicans often argue about generalities because the specifics that happen in the real world are so unpleasant. That turns Democrats’ arguments into unreasonable partisan accusations. Democrats hate Trump. So they want to impeach him. So other unliked presidents may get impeached. And they hate him because they are Democrats so Republicans shouldn’t because who wants to be so partisan?

    They avoid the specific reasons for Democrat’s antipathy towards Trump, the inciting of an insurrection, the deaths and casualties among the police, the death threats, the fear of hiding from people calling for violent ends while in what is supposed to be the sacred home of democracy, and the violence towards democracy itself.

  104. 104.

    Quinerly

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I did a lot of mocking in the beginning. Then got bored with all the bickering. It’s been at least 5 years since I was on. Last time I poked my head in, neighbors were fighting over the new neighborhood Dollar Tree and the clientele it was bringing to the neighborhood area. (store not in the historic district area… Small strip center on the outer edge)

  107. 107.

    Annie

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    oh no.  I got off Nextdoor because, in response to weird noises and OMG somebody’s looking in car windows, someone suggested we all chip in to hire a private guard to walk around our neighborhood and watch for suspicious characters.  I did not stick around to find out how “suspicious” would be defined.  Out here, San Francisco near the ocean, it overlaps a lot with homelessness people.  Also not stated — what could actually be done, since looking in car windows, in and of itself, is not a crime.

    Try Citizen instead

  108. 108.

    StringOnAStick

    @Mike in NC: NextDoor seems to be where the resentment filled, usually R older neighbors hang out.  I belonged once, and reported it there when my husband was nearly mauled by a bear on a normally very busy local trail; I also let the country know since it was their trail. Then another person got clawed and the county told the DOW, who euthanized the bear and her cubs because she and the cubs attacked two hikers with bear whistles and 2 dogs.  The people who called them “our cubs” came after me and I was afraid of violence because that damned app has your address and the “our cubs” bunch blamed me for the DOW decision and were pretty threatening about it.  I suspect the “our cubs” folks had been feeding the bears, and as the wildlife saying goes, a fed bear is a dead bear because sooner or later a human gets injured by the bears who see them as food sources, not as something to be feared.  I got off NextDoor and will never, ever go near that app again.  All people do on it is bitch and complain anyway; who needs it.

  110. 110.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Quinerly: Antifa sluts drugged the peaceful protesters with their vaginas.

    Checks out.

    That link really makes clicking on it unneeded.

    drugged-by-antifa-sluts Alright.  Got it.

  111. 111.

    Quinerly

    @JanieM: I am on FB. Key is keeping your circle small, small. Only people you know and are friends with in public. I like it for keeping up with people I meet on my travels.

  112. 112.

    NotMax

    For those not watching/listening, the Cliff’s Notes version.

    “House managers are doody heads.”

  113. 113.

    opiejeanne

    I had to turn it off after about 10 minutes. The guy who was speaking couldn’t pronounce half the words in his presentation (ratched?), and was just bad at reading it correctly. He left a word at the end of a sentence hanging for a whole beat. This was during the rant bout hating our lovable ex-Pres.

  115. 115.

    Quinerly

    @stinger: Now…. I’m wondering about all those good Christian women who also became crazed rioters…. It would be irresponsible not to speculate……

  119. 119.

    stinger

    @opiejeanne: I can’t follow his argument or even make it interesting by imagining it being spoken by Morgan Freeman. Think I’ll go look up some old On The Road posts I may have missed.

  120. 120.

    Ken

    @Quinerly: I’m wondering about all those good Christian women who also became crazed rioters…. It would be irresponsible not to speculate……

    Or write up a four-page plot outline and send it to a porn producer.  Pro tip: Pick a “stage name” for the writing credit, or they’ll use your real name.

  123. 123.

    Almost Retired

    @Just Some Fuckhead:  Against my better judgment, I signed up for Next Door.  Lots of posts about lost dogs – the dogs in my neighborhood are evidently in full revolt.  Also, complaints about homeless-sightings.  There was one complaint about a disheveled-looking homeless guy muttering to himself in the checkout line at BevMo.  Insofar as my hygiene has slipped a bit during the pandemic and I was there that day, I think it was me.

  127. 127.

    JoyceH

    @Quinerly: ​
     

    I am on FB. Key is keeping your circle small, small. Only people you know and are friends with in public. I like it for keeping up with people I meet on my travels.

    I’m on Facebook, and you can join local groups – I’m on the group for my county and my development. The development one has a lot of ‘be warned, things are being stolen out of cars’ and ‘this dog showed up on my porch’. (‘Oh, no, Buster got out again, I’ll come get him’) County has stuff about schools and candidates for Tri-County Soil and Water Conservation Board. Last spring a lot of breaking news about who had toilet paper.

  128. 128.

    stinger

    @stinger: He keeps referencing a Brandenberg decision. IANAL, so what comes to mind every time is either my fave set of concertos or my old CO at Fort Campbell. Distracting.

  129. 129.

    jimmiraybob

    The Beastie Boys have urged me time after time after time to “fight for my right to party!”

    Ergo, Trump is completely vindicated and the Beastie Boys should be the ones facing impeachment & conviction!

    Et voila.

  131. 131.

    Old School

    There was reporting that Republican senators were struggling to stay awake during the prosecuting presentation.  I’m surprised I don’t hear any snoring today.

  132. 132.

    NotMax

    “the Constitutional definition of ‘incitement'”

    Say what now?

    Somehow avoiding citing the Supreme Court ruling that the rules and processes of impeachment are solely and wholly the purview of the Congress, not subject to judicial ruling. Period.

  134. 134.

    Quinerly

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I’m trying to back off reading the online FB comments in small Southern town newspapers. (things have cooled down since 1/20. I have to assume they are all discouraged or have been slipped downers by Antifa sluts) If I want controversy and argument, I go to the county health departments (same areas) FB pages… Everyone fighting over masks (they do not work! Socialist plot!) and vaccines (microchips!) ….saying absolutely the most stupid and vile things.

  135. 135.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    We just got a notice that a coyote has been seen on campus. People with small dogs are being warned to take care.

    There’s a marsh reserve a ten minute walk away and I’ve seen signs warning of a coyote breeding area there, so I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised.

  137. 137.

    Martin

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Next Door near us is a cesspool of Karens. They report some supposed ‘crime’ which turns out to just be some POC doing completely normal things. There’s a daily coyote sighting which 99% of the time is just a dog, often with a collar, sometimes with the owner in the background clearly having just thrown a ball.

  139. 139.

    The Moar You Know

    RE:  NextDoor.  I’m glad you all are reporting your various experiences with it.

    In my neighborhood, I swear to God, it’s where the genocide will start.  I “quit” FB last year because it was way too toxic, and the whole “thumb on the scales for the GOP” thing they do.  NextDoor in my area is ten times worse than the worst FB feed you’ve ever seen.  The most recent horseshit is that they’re trying to put together a mob to go after the local teacher’s union president and all his neighbors for having the temerity to suggest, via lawsuit, that teachers shouldn’t be put back into classrooms without being vaccinated.

    And God help any black person who wanders into town.  Holy shit, that is some scary postings when that happens.

  142. 142.

    M31

    @stinger: He keeps referencing a Brandenberg decision.

    What?!?!?!? TWO violas as the solo instruments? that’s insane!

    [lol there is a theory out there that some of the instrumentation and compositional choices made by Bach in the Brandenburg concertos were actually meant to be politically subversive]

  143. 143.

    karen marie

    @wvng: I gave it a shot while in the car for a brief expedition. I lasted three minutes before I had to turn it off. They were playing audio of the worst of last summer’s protests interspersed with Schumer saying essentially the protests were justified. They’re presenting a mixed fruit basket that has nothing to do with Trump’s insurrection.

  150. 150.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Lapassionara: turned out well, thanks!  I went with a fairly simple recipe, and it could not have been easier.  Was feeling a little crazy and added half a cup of Napanook since there just happened to be an open bottle of it…that I had just opened.  Not sure that did anything more than waste half a cup of a very good Bordeaux blend, but why not take a few chances in our brave new Biden world?

  151. 151.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I guess it should come as no surprise, but the defence team had the security camera footage all along (per agreed-upon rules), although Schoen made a big song and dance that the House managers withheld it from them and tried to spring it on them and violated due process. Just disgusting liars.

  152. 152.

    CaseyL

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
     

    There’s a marsh reserve a ten minute walk away and I’ve seen signs warning of a coyote breeding area there

    “I know where to take the ladies! There’s a lovely marsh not far from here, full of tasty muskrats. Really puts me in the mood for” – waggles coyote eyebrows – “romance.”

  153. 153.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: coyotes are like large raccoons, from what I can, see they can adapt to just about any environment that will allow them to hide during the day

    I saw a documentary on Carpathian wildlife on PBS the other night, and a protected wolf population in eastern Poland has spread west through Germany to Belgium and the Netherlands. They showed a clip of a good size wolf calmly trotting down what looked like a prosperous northern European suburb in broad daylight, right down a sidewalk, past a bunch of neat little brick houses.

  154. 154.

    Martin

    @Almost Retired: I know my dad isn’t on Next Door because he would take unending delight in trolling the shit out of them by dressing up as something weird and making random appearances around his small town.

  155. 155.

    Winston

    Criticizing edited video with extremely edited video, is probably not going to convince a lot of people. (Republicans, of course will eat it up)

  157. 157.

    germy

    The Biden administration has been a whirlwind disaster so it’s tough to keep track of all the terrible things already announced – but let’s not forget that one of Biden’s first acts was to reverse a Trump policy that lowered insulin prices.— Lauren Boebert (@laurenboebert) February 12, 2021

    OMG that’s such a fucking LIE.— Sam Sepiol (@SamSepi40324237) February 12, 2021

  158. 158.

    Miss Bianca

    @StringOnAStick: I joined it when my Luna girl went missing two years ago, just to be able to spread the word as widely as possible. Haven’t been back since – just looking at the subject headings is usually enough for me!

  159. 159.

    JoyceH

    I’m kind of surprised at how negative a lot of people’s experience with Facebook is. My feed is nice. Friends and relatives and I’m in writer groups and dog groups. Knitting. Jane Austen. I had to unfriend a former coworker who turned out to be too angrily right wing. But that’s about it.

  161. 161.

    Almost Retired

    @Martin:  Coyote sightings are also common topics on my neighborhood Next Door (South Bay section of Los Angeles).  I reported a stolen anvil and mentioned that I suspected coyotes.

  165. 165.

    Martin

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: We have loads of coyotes where I live. Some months ago daughter decided to take the dog for a walk early in the morning and we got a text from her ‘is this a coyote?’  with a photo. Yes, it was, and it was right in front of the house.

    We have a zillion small neighborhood parks here – nobody lives more than a few hundred feet from one – and we’ve had kids attacked by coyotes in a park more than a few times. Nothing fatal, but bad enough. I don’t think we’ve had an adult attacked in quite some time – last I recall was a jogger in a large nature preserve/park nearby. But kids, pets, etc. yeah. They don’t have much trouble adapting to neighborhoods, green spaces, etc.

  166. 166.

    Mandarama

    @Just Some Fuckhead: My newly-radicalized husband has gotten involved on Nextdoor as the leader of the “for Biden” group. He spends a lot of time arguing with and booting trolls. Our teenaged son says, “Dad’s busy on 4chan for Boomers.”

  167. 167.

    Quinerly

    I’ll summarize a 2 day local story that has been all over the news. Funeral home van stolen while left running at Quick Trip yesterday. Body in the van had just been picked up. Was on the way to a crematorium. Van clearly marked with funeral home signage. Couple who stole it caught on video. Van found at Walmart today. Couple arrested while shopping. Body still in the van.

    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-recover-body-of-woman-and-stolen-van-arrest-suspects-in-festus/article_266e4a9f-f931-5eb1-8b76-563a59785466.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_St._Louis_Post-Dispatch

  168. 168.

    Barbara

    @M31: Brandenburg v. Ohio
    I don’t remember it all that well, but it’s one of those cases in which state laws overreached in criminalizing what was effectively just speech. I found a pithy summary that comports with what I remember from law school:

    The Court’s Per Curiam opinion held that the Ohio law violated Brandenburg’s right to free speech. The Court used a two-pronged test to evaluate speech acts: (1) speech can be prohibited if it is “directed at inciting or producing imminent lawless action” and (2) it is “likely to incite or produce such action.” The criminal syndicalism act made illegal the advocacy and teaching of doctrines while ignoring whether or not that advocacy and teaching would actually incite imminent lawless action. The failure to make this distinction rendered the law overly broad and in violation of the Constitution.

    I don’t know why Trump’s lawyers think Brandenburg helps him.  I am not watching, but following on Twitter, it appears that they are resorting to a monotonous, not to say obsessive, focus on the word “fight” as used in widely varying situations.  To which I have two points that I assume will get made:

    1.  Res ipsa loquitur.  In all these previous uses of the word “fight” no one ended up actually fighting.  No. One. Because no one understood the use of the word to be an incitement to physical fighting.  And everyone with two brain cells understands the difference between being incited to riot versus being incited to express opposition through things like canvassing, helping people register to vote and so on.  The fact that violence occurred isn’t by itself determinative of the issue, but how is it that in this case alone violence resulted?
    2. Because — it wasn’t just words.  It was inviting the mob to the rally making sure that  the invitation was issued through groups that Trump knew had engaged in violence on his behalf, stoking their rage and then directing them to march to the Capitol to take back their country with strength, and not weakness — and telling them that were justified in playing by different rules on account of fraud.
    3. And finally, after violence broke out he did nothing about it. News accounts are pretty clear that he was thrilled and excited.​
  169. 169.

    Jeffro

    @Elizabelle: oh, very cool!  Thanks!  I know my family’s going to want to check this out ?

    they don’t like Shakespeare nearly as much as I do, but we all loved seeing page in HADESTOWN ?

  170. 170.

    Martin

    @Almost Retired:

    Wait a minute! Supposing *two* coyotes carried it together!
    Nooo….. They’d have to have it on a line…
    Well, simple! They’d just use a strand of creeper!
    What, held under the hind quarters?
    Well, why not?

  172. 172.

    germy

    Imagine defending your client by showing a video of him saying “Fake news” – an expression that was a favorite of Hitler. Lügenpresse

    — JEN KIRKMAN ??‍? (@JenKirkman) February 12, 2021

  174. 174.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Mandarama: I don’t generally participate in groups because I’m not the grouping kind but I have already made some friends with my witty banter.

  176. 176.

    Barbara

    @raven: ​ You know Raven, my husband asks me questions like this regarding my outrage over Trump all the time — what did you expect? To which I say, it doesn’t matter what I expected, I am still going to call them out for their outrageous and despicable actions. Trump’s defense isn’t my problem.

  177. 177.

    Annie

    @The Moar You Know:

    This.  Oddly enough there were 2 events in my hood that I really did want to know about — one was a block party, the other was a report on Citizen about a stabbing— and Nextdoor had zero information about either one.

    I don’t get anything on Facebook except postings from people I have friended, or who have friended me, so it’s not a problem.

  179. 179.

    TriassicSands

    A few moments into the beginning of the “defense” I had to turn it off. When van der Veen claimed that the first person (or one of the first people) arrested was the (or “a”) “leader of Antifa” that was all I could take. I guess lawyers outright lying in defense of Trump is OK. “Witch hunt.” “Cancel culture.” Disgusting.
    I just heard on the Post’s website that Lisa Murkowski thinks the defense is doing a good job.​
    ​
    ​

  180. 180.

    geg6

    While there is a break, I’m going OT. If you have Starz, I cannot recommend “Emanuel” enough. It’s a doc about the murders at Mother Emanuel AME Church. Excellent.

  182. 182.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom 43m

    I was listening to that on the radio and I wondered if somehow the impeachment managers against Trump had gotten the floor back for a moment

    Michael Beschloss @BeschlossDC · 1h
    Why would Trump’s lawyers now want to fight a battle over what Trump said after Charlottesville?

    my guess: trump saw the Raskin crew play video of his post-Charlottesville peak-Broderism and told them he wanted them to do this, and they’re dumb enough to think they might: a) get paid; and b) get some big new clients. Actually, they might not be wrong about (b).

  184. 184.

    Martin

    @Barbara: They’re just trying to give Republican senators some kind of excuse. Not only do the Republicans not know what Brandenburg concluded (other than Cruz and Hawley) they don’t care, and they won’t be curious about it. Trumps lawyers made their case, and they will swallow it uncritically because it’s what they want to do, and Trumps lawyers know it.

    Now, what would be curious is if Trumps lawyers get busted for lying to Congress, because it sure as shit seems like they did. It doesn’t matter if they’re sworn in or not – lying to Congress is a felony. 18USC1001 is pretty fucking broad.

  185. 185.

    Gravenstone

    @BruceFromOhio: Ah, this would explain the National Review headline I happened across this morning that blared “Sen. Warnock being investigated with Stacey Abrams vote gathering organization”. Needless to say I didn’t click through to that one…

  186. 186.

    Quinerly

    @Just Some Fuckhead: without a doubt. Van found in Festus, MO. Doesn’t that just sound like a haven for white meth heads? I have felt so sorry for the funeral home director. Northside… Black owned funeral home… On the news begging to return the body. Lots of criticism about the driver dashing into the Quick Trip for hot coffee.

  187. 187.

    JoyceH

    @geg6: ​
    &nbsp

    But interesting Facebook experience – I friended a guy from the Samoyed group because he had two gorgeous and pampered Samoyeds. In 2016 I had to mute him because he turned out to be RABIDLY anti-Hillary. I was surprised because he didn’t strike me as GOP material. This was a guy who found a homeless man living under a bridge because the shelter wouldn’t let him bring his dog, found the guy a place to live and a job, got him to the doc and his dog to the vet. I guess he just absorbed the anti-dem bias in Florida?

    Anyway, I unmuted him after the election and he was back to normal. Since then he’s moved back to his native Armenia to work on dog rescue. His group goes into the war zone to rescue dogs abandoned when the residents evacuated. So I keep up to date on Armenian dog rescue.

  188. 188.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @TriassicSands: sometimes I think Murkowski is dumb, and sometimes I think she knows exactly what she needs to do to hold on to that seat, and she’s willing to do it, and she’ll by god die at that desk

  189. 189.

    germy

    The impeachment proceedings today proves that the current Democrat party has such a deep hatred it will distort video, forge documents, lie and act like world class hypocrites.

    The question now is how many of them should be removed?

    — Rudy W. Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) February 12, 2021

    aren't you heading to jail soon?

    — Mak (@TheJollyRoge) February 12, 2021

  190. 190.

    germy

    CONFIRMED: A source close to House Managers tells me that David Schoen was not telling the truth when he said Trump’s lawyers had not been given the new video evidence of the Capitol attack. That person says trial rules required giving Trump lawyers the videos before the start.

    — Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) February 12, 2021

    Her reporting has been valuable.

  191. 191.

    Miss Bianca

    @germy: Gee, and I was just getting used to the idea of not being driven into a frothing rage by POTUS tweets…along comes my “representative”…sigh.

  194. 194.

    Mallard Filmore

    @Ken:

     

    “I just saw that homeless guy again in our neighborhood, I think he’s stalking me!”

    He was in my bathroom! Just above the sink!!!

  195. 195.

    Gravenstone

    @Amir Khalid: Opening line of the upcoming rebuttal from the managers; “It sadly seems the defense counsel does not have even a basic grasp of the English language.”

  196. 196.

    TriassicSands

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Intelligence is often misunderstood. Being smart in one way doesn’t preclude idiocy in another. I think you are right on both counts — she’s not very bright, but she has a kind of political sense (that is fairly common) about what to do to hang on to her seat.

    One important thing for politicians to understand is that most of their constituents are not very smart, not really engaged, or both. Murkowski may understand that or have aides who do.

  197. 197.

    dww44

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​
      Thanks for this assessment. I’d been inching toward the conclusion that she wasn’t very bright and you’ve taken me there. She must have some political smarts that allow her to retain her seat.

  200. 200.

    Mary G

    I was on Next Door for a day or two. It was all people trying to sell hideous custom furniture, hire childcare for ridiculously low wages, and one Karen who screeched in all caps to LOCK THE DOOR THERE’S A PERVERT MURDEROUS PROBABLY ILLEGAL IN THE BUSHES NEXT TO MY [email protected]!!!!! who was of course the gardener who takes care of my yard and the five houses around me and has for 20 years since I moved in.

    I got in trouble for asking a lady who wanted babysitting for $5/hour if maybe turning your precious offspring over to the lowest bidder wasn’t a not so good idea.

  202. 202.

    jimmiraybob

    @Quinerly: 

    Ha! What a hoot. I just drove up Riverview into Spanish Lake yesterday. I hadn’t heard about the Hearse theft body abduction thing yet. Frankly, I think my friends would get a hoot if I got one last wild road trip.

  204. 204.

    artem1s

    @Kelly:

    This Jesse Pinkman moment comes to mind…

    Slipping Jimmy would eat these guys alive.  They aren’t worthy to touch Saul Goodman’s coattails.

  209. 209.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    @JoyceH: Hi, I’ve been reading your Miss Bennet Books on my Kindle this week and enjoying them very much! Thanks for the tip on their availability and subject.

  212. 212.

    TriassicSands

    @Geminid:

    That’s true, but part of my point is that IQ is not a comprehensive measure of intelligence. It measures one kind of intelligence that is frequently assumed to be INTELLIGENCE period.

    Skills and intelligence are also different things.

  213. 213.

    Kelly

    Mrs Kelly is on Facebook and Nextdoor. She uses them as a source of local news and we hired a good house painter based on recommendations. FB is the only way to find out where the sirens were going and similar local news. Government below the county level seem to have FB as their only web presence. The ranting about strangers mostly happens on summer weekends when there are 10 times as many people from elsewhere enjoying our woods and rivers than locals. It does get a bit aggravating when so many people park along the roads that traffic has trouble getting thru. Downside of living in a beautiful place.

    Out here in the deep red Oregon boondocks FB is also how the local liberals stay in touch. Small group as has been recommended earlier in this thread. Mrs Kelly tracks what the wingnuts are ranting about but does not engage. I gave up on our local hardware store after she reported the owner was the hub of the anti mask crazies. We suffer from having a majority of relatives that are right wing nut cases.

  215. 215.

    M31

    @Ninedragonspot: omg yes — there is a clutch of Bach scholars who go on and on about numerology and the golden section and counting bar numbers in pieces and it’s just so tedious

    There is one Bach scholar doing useful research though, they proved that in Leipzig in Bach’s time people brought their dogs to church

  218. 218.

    Sparkedcat

    Bruce Castor litigating Trumps use of the word “find” in regards to his January 2nd call to SoS Raffensberger in an attempt to preempt the coming criminal charges Trump faces in Georgia. Castor is resurrecting the big lie espoused by the Republican party of a fraudulent election.

  222. 222.

    Leto

    Decided to flip it back on because I thought they’d be done (wrapped up in 3 hours), and I def came back to a Fox News segment. Scary music and all. It’s interesting that they feel they need to weave “scary” music into their video montage to elicit an effect, whereas on the Dem side they simply let the audio/video speak for itself.

    Also it’s totally not amazing that they keep harping on “cancel culture”. JFC these people

    Edit: and as I type it, shitstains says they’re done. Good.

  223. 223.

    opiejeanne

    @Ninedragonspot: You have no idea how much free time they have on their hands.

    When I was getting my BA in Music. our Theory teacher had just read a book called something like “The Secret Art of 15th century composers” (I may have the century wrong). It was theorizing that composers of that period worked out a code signaling that the musician should use a flatted or sharped note. At the time, composers of sacred music were required by the church to use certain modes, certain tones together, and forbid others, and they checked the written music for flats or sharps that would create a deviation. The theory was that these crafty composers devised a method of signaling which note they wanted the musician to actually play by how it was approached. The musician would know that a B following a line from an F natural would not be a B natural, but a B flat, and that, as a consequence, music from that period has been played incorrectly for centuries after the Church lost control of the compositions.

  224. 224.

    StringOnAStick

    @Kelly: Hey, we drove through your area on the way to Silver Falls SP Wednesday; thanks for the recommendation, what a great loop hike and so pretty.  The low level of Lake Detroit was seriously concerning, and a strong hint about how dry it got last summer.

  226. 226.

    Low Key Swagger

    @JoyceH: Me too.  I don’t click on links, I never click on ads, I don’t “friend” someone I don’t know, etc.  Until there is another widely used platform that makes it so incredible easy to share video, photos, and links…I’ll keep mine.  I never see any Right Wing posts, probably because I’ve hidden or unfriended toxic people.

  229. 229.

    Geminid

    @TriassicSands: I was not disagreeing with you, or at least did not mean to. The phenomenon of people labeling as “dumb” other people who have differing political takes interests me.

  234. 234.

    Kelly

    @StringOnAStick: Detroit Lake level is right on schedule. It’s highest priority is flood control. It’ll shift to water storage in a few weeks. The annual plan is based on weather records that go back a long ways, probably 100+ years. Worked very well until the last 5~10 years. We’ve had a couple years it didn’t fill and several more where it just barely made it. Corp of Engineers hasn’t shown any interest in updating their model to reflect climate change.

    Just checked the Detroit website. It is already below planned storage. We shall see how it goes.

    How busy was Silver Falls? I haven’t been up since the fires thinking it might be crowded since it’s the best hike around here that survived fires.

  235. 235.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @WaterGirl: since I started this discussion of Murkowski’s relative intelligence, I don’t actually think she’s stupid in the way Pence and Tuberville and Blackburn and Johnson are. In fact I’m surprised she went that far. I’d expect something more along the lines of, “they raised some interesting points that I’ll have to think about as an impartial juror.”

    I’m not predicting she’ll vote to acquit, but before this I thought she was a pretty safe bet to vote to convict. I guess Romney doesn’t offer the same kind of cover McCain did.

  236. 236.

    StringOnAStick

    @Kelly: Ah, thanks for the explanation.  It was odd seeing the stumps of the trees cleared to fill the lake so I assumed it was a nontypical thing.

    Silver Falls wasn’t busy at all; we have our “outdoor” masks that aren’t as high of filter capacity as the others we use, though in an area that humid it was hard to avoid fogging.  At all of the passages behind falls people were being good about waiting and keeping a 6′ distance.  We went on Wednesday in order to avoid weekend traffic and crowds, plus we were looking for a day when Santiam pass wouldn’t be snowy.

  238. 238.

    Ramalama

    @Sparkedcat: Hey great minds. Bonus, I went to the store to purchase some masks and grabbed a coke from the cooler. Something I never do because I am addicted and have successfully gone off of Coke. Coke classic. Instead, I get my fix from a crazy varieties of tea, mostly of the Earl Grey kind. I was drinking the rare can of Coke while I typed out my comment with one hand. What this means for you: you should go out and buy a lottery ticket.

  240. 240.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, Lisa Murkowski definitely has more going on upstairs than does Marsha Blackburn. I don’t attach too much import to what she is quoted as saying about the defense today. Murkowski will keep her most important thinking to herself, maybe share it with a few other Senators like Joe Manchin. Murkowski and Manchin seem to be tight. Murkowski may even have rough drafts of alternate speeches written, one for a vote to convict, one for a vote for “acquittal.” In any event, we’ll know how she and the rest of her caucus votes on conviction before too long. I’m waiting ’till then to cuss her out.

  241. 241.

    Ben Cisco

    When these guys opened up a couple of days ago, I retweeted Dr. Maddow’s incredulous “Is he up there rambling?” with “In the best Foghorn Leghorn tradition.” She paraphrased it the next night.

    I choose to believe I inspired that, whether true or not.

  243. 243.

    TriassicSands

    @WaterGirl:

    That probably includes about 40 to 45 senators. But the question is Does she believe that or is she just saying that to lay the groundwork for her vote.

    However, there’s another issue here that has little to do with intelligence — corruption. That applies to some degree to about 49 GOP senators. Many are both stupid and very corrupt. But for someone like Lindsey Graham the problem is one of pure corruption. Murkowski may have some integrity, not much, but some. Graham has none at all. McConnell? All corruption.

  244. 244.

    TriassicSands

    @Geminid:

    It depends on why someone calls another person dumb. In general, anyone who votes to acquit Trump doesn’t have to be dumb at all. Just corrupt. But to fail to see the damage that Trump has done and will continue to do is just plain stupid. To see it and ignore it or not care could be stupid, but it more likely, I think, points to corruption and a lack of integrity.

    The only Republican senator I would say has any real integrity is Romney.T

    i firmly believe that 100% of Republican senators realize that Trump is guilty. They may be stupid to not understand the damage an acquittal will do, but they are corrupt and dishonest to vote to acquit.

    There are lots of Americans, in both parties, that lack the mental capacity to vote and decide issues competently. It is one reason why our system is so damaged.

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