New details about Trump-McCarthy shouting match show Trump refused to call off the rioters | @jamiegangel, @Kevinliptakcnn, @MichaelRWarren & @MarshallCohen https://t.co/w7TN6b6VMO
— State of the Union (@CNNSotu) February 12, 2021
In an expletive-laced phone call with House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy while the Capitol was under attack, then-President Donald Trump said the rioters cared more about the election results than McCarthy did.
“Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are,” Trump said, according to lawmakers who were briefed on the call afterward by McCarthy…
Trump’s comment set off what Republican lawmakers familiar with the call described as a shouting match between the two men. A furious McCarthy told the President the rioters were breaking into his office through the windows, and asked Trump, “Who the f–k do you think you are talking to?” according to a Republican lawmaker familiar with the call…
The Republican members of Congress said the exchange showed Trump had no intention of calling off the rioters even as lawmakers were pleading with him to intervene. Several said it amounted to a dereliction of his presidential duty.
“He is not a blameless observer, he was rooting for them,” a Republican member of Congress said. “On January 13, Kevin McCarthy said on the floor of the House that the President bears responsibility and he does.” …
“You have to look at what he did during the insurrection to confirm where his mind was at,” Herrera Beutler, one of 10 House Republicans who voted last month to impeach Trump, told CNN. “That line right there demonstrates to me that either he didn’t care, which is impeachable, because you cannot allow an attack on your soil, or he wanted it to happen and was OK with it, which makes me so angry.”
“We should never stand for that, for any reason, under any party flag,” she added, voicing her extreme frustration: “I’m trying really hard not to say the F-word.” …
I’ve been lukewarm on calling witnesses. The managers have made an incredible case & I’ve thought that GOP’s response would be bullshit distractions. I’ve considered Pence, but I’m not sure he’d say much that would be illuminating
But I now think they should call McCarthy
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) February 13, 2021
The most obsessive TV viewer https://t.co/kChclqGJ5c
— Grudgie the Whale (@grudging1) February 13, 2021
we knew about the call, and that mccarthy later called kushner saying he had talked to trump but he wouldn’t call off the mob, but this has more.
would be interested what time the call was, if mccarthy can get his phone records https://t.co/erP9MCFq2d— Laura Rozen (@lrozen) February 13, 2021
Pence's team does not agree with the Trump lawyer's assessment that Trump was concerned about Pence's safety. Trump didn't call him that day — or for five days after that. No one else on Trump's team called as Pence was evacuated to one room & another, with screaming mob nearby.
— Josh Dawsey (@jdawsey1) February 12, 2021
Trump absolutely knew who the fuck he was talking to. Here's proof. https://t.co/NbZLe8SxaK pic.twitter.com/DoPCxuCC1M
— Zeddy (@Zeddary) February 13, 2021
Lol CNN reporting that when McCarthy went to Mar a Lago to grovel to Trump – after voting to overturn the election for him – he asked Trump for his donor list and was rebuffed.
— Helen Kennedy (@HelenKennedy) February 13, 2021
Just Some Fuckhead
It’s really fucking weird how this isn’t general public knowledge until just now. Republican congresswoman Herrera Beutler, who made it public after McCarthy told her, said she’s been telling local (to her district) media outlets and her constituents since Jan. 7th but it never got picked up nationally until now.
Geoboy
For bonus points – what circle of hell in Dante’s Inferno is Kevin McCarthy headed for, and what is to be his eternal punishment?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Geoboy: How does he go from screaming at Trump to not have him killed to going down and kissing his ass at the trash palace? And for that matter, how does Pence go meet with Trump after his harrowing experience and then remain perfectly silent about everything? Republicanism is a mental disorder.
dmsilev
Assuming that this is true, it means McCarthy is even stupider than I thought, and I already thought he was just a few notches above the Gohmert Line. He actually thought that would work, be a useful thing to say to the Narcissist In Chief?
dmsilev
@Geoboy: Eighth Circle is for frauds. Ninth for traitors. Take your pick.
Kent
It is kind of weird. But I’m in her district and it is sort of understandable. It is Vancouver WA and the rest of SW Washington which is mostly small mill towns. But technically part of the Portland media market. So the actual media outlets in SW Washington on this side of the Columbia are very small and parochial. And the Portland TV and newspapers don’t really cover politics up here except during elections. So it is kind of a media dead zone. All our TV stations are Portland stations, for example. As are all the big radio stations like the local NPR station.
Herrera Beutler is getting a lot of local kudos from Dems and Independent types up here. She probably singlehandedly sealed her victory in the 2022 election with that vote. Because we have a jungle primary she can’t really be primaried by the rabid MAGA right. Her only threat is from the left.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
So Platform 8-3/4 then?
Suzanne
God. Kevin McCarthy is the most sniveling servile cocksucker I can imagine.
And he’s the better man in this scenario.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Kent: It feels like a coverup.
Geoboy
@dmsilev: I figue Ninth Circle is reserved for Trump, and McCarthy is so inferior he has to settle for second place, as it were. Forever running back and forth to try (futilely) to get away from demons with whips. That works.
Kent
I think the national media just didn’t connect the dots until now. But who the hell knows.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Kent: I can’t imagine Herrera Beutler doesn’t know how to get the national media’s attention. Think of all the congresspeople who live on cable tv. National newspapers would cut their nuts off for a scoop like this, normally. This doesn’t pass the smell test.
Know who else knew about the story? McCarthy.
They Call Me Blue
@Kent: I hadn’t thought about the impact of the jungle primary on the level of electoral threat she’d see on the right. I would think her district would have a pretty significant Trumpist presence, but counterbalanced for sure by Vancouver as a bedroom community to Portland.
Up here in Snohomish County, while overall a pretty liberal county thanks to the more populated south end, the north end skews pretty hard right. That area was home to the secessionist “Freedom County” movement back in the mid-to-late 90s, comprised of the usual militia and related characters. Their self-proclaimed “Sheriff” went by the name FnuLnu, apparently law enforcement jargon for “first name unknown, last name unknown”. And this year our current Sheriff came out as a “constitutional sheriff” who was not bound by law to enforce the COVID restrictions order by Governor Inslee.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I know these things aren’t carved in stone, but don’t reporter conventions suggest that this– “a source close to”– is someone who doesn’t work at the White House? Stone, though I can’t see him talking to a CNN reporter, or Giualiani, who I can imagine talking to anybody. I think Chris Christie was always Nicolle Wallace’s inside contact, but he’s on the outs since he got Covid. But someone like that.
Mike G
“Buh…buh…if Trump didn’t incite the rioters, why would they think he could call them off? /s
Just Some Fuckhead
If we had a real national press in this country and not a bunch of pampered trust fund babies doing cocktail parties and stenography, McCarthy would face some really tough questions tomorrow.
Geoduck
@Kent: As one of Beutler’s former constituents in Olympia, I was surprised. I had her pegged as a bog-standard loyal backbencher.
lollipopguild
@Just Some Fuckhead: You are correct-you are also very funny.
karen marie
@Just Some Fuckhead:
If we had a real national press in this country and not a bunch of pampered trust fund babies doing cocktail parties and stenography, McCarthy would have faced “real questions” when Herrera Beutler first talked about it. I remember reading it on twitter back in January but at that point the media was obsessing about logistics of impeachment and whether Dems weren’t overreaching again.
piratedan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: well, as more and more of these folks get picked up, I hope that someone is smart enough to start going through phone calls and text messages. I suspect that there is a casual network of shared contacts between these groups, Oath Keepers, III%’s, Proud Boys etc and designated WH contacts, Stone and even some folks inside the WH circle to start giving us a bigger picture on who was involved in the conspiracy to assault the capital/stage the coup.
I hate being a conspiracy theorist, but as the wardrobe of shoes keep dropping is anyone over in Justice seeing the same dots and “coincidences”?
Just Some Fuckhead
One of the Democratic senators is proposing to suspend tomorrow’s activities and depose McCarthy, Tuberville and secret service agents.
CaseyL
I have a theory how T* keeps GQP politicians on his side, even after almost getting them killed.
I mean, other than the ones who stay faithful because they like what T* has done to the country (i.e., Gohmert, Johnson, Cruz, Rand.)
We’ve long suspected that Wikileaks hacked the RNC emails as well as the DNC emails, but held onto the GOP material for blackmail purposes. Even if that were true, you would think at some point the person being blackmailed would reach a limit. You would think, when it came down to their own lives being under threat, they would run to the FBI or somebody for help.
But what if the RNC materials were only the beginning of the blackmail information?
Getting to be part of T*’s inner circle means having a direct line to a lot of money and power. So far so good. But he is an abusive monster, and he likes to put people in impossible positions where they dare not say no to him. He ran, as we’ve said often enough, an international crime syndicate masquerading as a government.
Well. What do crime syndicates do to new members to keep them loyal? What, in fact, do terrorist organizations do to new recruits to make them prove they’re loyal?
They force the new members, and the new recruits, to “make their bones,” i.e., commit more crimes. Atrocities.
T* has kidnapped – and “disappeared” – children, stolen billions of dollars, and sold/given intelligence to our enemies that got US service people and agents killed.
How hard would it have been for him to get one of the GOPster politicians involved in any one of these enormities, these atrocities? Voluntarily or not.
So, besides whatever older stuff he had on them, courtesy of Wikileaks, he would then have new, even worse, stuff on them, that they would rather die than see revealed.
That might explain the absolute submissiveness by people like Kevin McCarthy and Lindsay Graham.
piratedan
@Just Some Fuckhead: with the death of print media, it sure as hell seems like we have a gap in getting our news these days as items gravitate from beyond local implications into something that affects us all. Local reporting also helps a lot with nuance if there’s any present that can show the depth of the issues and the people involved, but nowadays we’re dependent on local TV (God help us) to give us pictures and sound bytes.
Just Some Fuckhead
@CaseyL: Yeah, I used to propose that theory as well early on.
Just Some Fuckhead
@lollipopguild: I’m also very good looking and work as a director in an organization that provides housing for homeless children and their families.
jl
“Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are,”
Maybe it’s staying away from sound and pix of this mess after the prosecution rested, or maybe I am a bad person, but running into this garbage randomly in the news makes me guffaw.
And Trump was sitting there actively refusing to do anything, despite numerous pleas, while he knew the mob was shouting to lynch the VP, and while security was whisking Pence from room to room trying to keep him safe?
I’m making a list of every GOP Senator who votes to acquit and will contribute to their defeat when they’re up for election.
Hard to believe, but most of them will vote to acquit, which is despicable. As some commenters noted above, there have been numerous reports of Trump actively refusing to do his job, more than worthy of impeachment and conviction, hours after the riot began. So, nothing very surprising in the new reports. And hard to believe that the GOP Senators signaling that they’ll acquit don’t know.
Just Some Fuckhead
@karen marie: How do Democrats not even know about this until now?
dww44
@Just Some Fuckhead: Exactly, if a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing right. This may not get us to 67 votes to convict, but it will surely land with a bang with the voters and it will put the kibosh on Trump.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@piratedan:
I’m too dumb and lazy to ever run a scam or covert operation, but can they trace burner phones? I don’t even really know what a burner phone is– a disposable cell phone with a temporary number? How hard would it be for Rudi (just to pick one possible scumbag) to use an aide’s wife’s phone for the day? a plan he set up for his cleaning lady with an extra line she doesn’t even know about?
(I just heard on a podcast last week that Pablo Escobar used carrier pigeons to avoid US intercepts. I don’t think Rudi (or whoever) used pigeons. )
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Just Some Fuckhead: You watching Williams? I heard Rhode Island, so I suspect it was Whitehouse. I like Whitehouse. In my sorkinesque fantasies where we won a five Senate seat majority last November, he was my choice for head of the joint House-Senate commission to investigate (for starters) the trump DoJ.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, I couldn’t remember who the Democratic senator was. I could barely remember Tuberville 30 seconds after hearing the name.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Looks like Rachel is a repeat.
jl
@Just Some Fuckhead:
” One of the Democratic senators is proposing to suspend tomorrow’s activities and depose McCarthy, Tuberville and secret service agents. ”
If it happens, I might watch clips of that. Several GOP Senators will be riveted, waiting to see if McCarthy will spill on whether or not he got Trump’s mailing list. That will be the only part of the trial that will have any real interest for them.
dww44
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m with you on Whitehouse. Remember that recent thing he did with all the McConnell judicial appointments? During the Amy Comey Barret hearings he produced charts showing the pipeline and the entities which produce (also control) all those far right judicial nominees. Scary stuff, really.
They Call Me Blue
@Kent: Hmmm, the interrtubes ate my first reply. User error I’m sure.
She is in what is now has to be a swing district, and clearly has decided her play is to the middle and not to the rabid right. But I hadn’t really considered the impact of the jungle primary on her situation.
We have a somewhat similar split here in Snohomish County. The more populated northern Seattle suburbs skews liberal, but the rural northern part of the county goes *hard* right. That area was home to the secessionist “Freedom County movement back in the latter half of the 90s. Very similar I’m sure to some out the outlying areas of her district.
Once a year I sign up to go to Darrington to call a doubleheader for their high school baseball team. It’s a *long* drive up through what used to be timber country. Didn’t get up there in 2020 as the season was canceled due to COVID, but I don’t doubt for second that there are folks from that neck of the woods that took part in the events of the 6th. That is fertile ground for someone like Trump.
On the positive side, the view from behind home plate at Darrington high school is the only one I’ve experienced where the scenery in the distance beyond the right-centerfield fence is rugged mountains and glaciers. The team’s coaches really appreciate those of us who make the trip for them, and the players are generally very friendly. A high school double header is something of a social event, tending to be the best attended school games in the district.
Chetan Murthy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The phone isn’t the hard part: you can buy ’em at many stores. I have a friend who buy’s ’em at $20 a pop to use in machine-learning, b/c it’s a cheap way to get Android+GPU. The hard part is “new phone who dis?” Or, more precisely, communicating to all your contacts that you’re planning to use a different phone number. It’s complicated to arrange. Takes more coordination, organization, … *competence*. I kinda doubt they did it, simply b/c of that. As Hal Holbrook said in that seminal role, “these aren‘t very bright guys, and things got out of hand.”
Just Some Fuckhead
@jl: I don’t know how Republican minds work so I can’t understand why it wasn’t clear to Republicans that Trump literally and on video incited the insurrection. I guess in their minds there’s some kinda (im)plausible deniability if you can yell “black rioters” loud enough.
But this post-putsch activity by Trump seems to be a horse of a different color and a lot more dangerous now with this latest story. I could be naive. Republicans may already have a defense set up wherein Hillary didn’t do anything about Benghazi after it started. Christ only knows.
debbie
Apparently, not even Ivanka could get her father to call off his dogs.
The Lodger
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I haven’t seen anyone try to create a timeline linking the time stamps on Trump’s tweets, Tuberville’s calls, and the Capitol security video showing Pence being hustled to safety. That would be interesting.
CaseyL
Can the House Managers unilaterally decide to call witnesses? Wouldn’t that take a Senate vote?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Acosta’s story is one trump crony with at least one source at the Capitol. Seems to me that would be fairly easy, especially since there was some kind of meet-up at the trump hotel the night before. I picked Rudi cause I hate him, but there are lots of possibilities. Some who drinks less– which could be anybody. Mike Flynn and that former FBI agent who’s with the Oath Keepers (though again, I can’t imagine Flynn talking to Acosta). Just speculating, thinking about who that source could be.
The Lodger
@CaseyL: As I understand it, a Senate majority can approve witnesses, but the impeachment managers have to request them first.
Wyatt Salamanca
@Suzanne:
I think it’s a toss-up between McCarthy and Pence.
Even though I know how this thing ends, I still wish the impeachment managers had subpoenaed Pence and Mark Meadows.
scav
There’s also this way to attack the phone issue. Backtrack. Figure out where all the phone calls at the White House (etc) during the critical window originated from. The land lines from the Capital are easy, and any cell calls from that area should stand out. Some will be identifiable, some will make sense, and then there are the others. If there are burners getting through. . . .well, while that would mean we can’t necessarily identify exactly who made the call . . . the fact they do exist and are getting through are evidence of something hinky occurring at the White House which is really the point.
karen marie
@Just Some Fuckhead: I can’t answer for “Democrats.” As I said, I had read about it, so it was reported. Why wasn’t it a big story at the time? There was a lot going on. McCarthy’s little drama was not important on its own. It’s important now because it’s of a piece with the evidence presented by the managers – a forceful demonstration of Trump’s state of mind and his deliberate dereliction of duty.
scav
@scav: With a bit of additional juggling, geolocated calls originating at the White House making calls to the Capital (landline and geolocated) could be identified, in case there are sneaky calls, burners operated from that direction.
Kent
WA-3rd is growing more blue with all the suburban growth in Vancouver. I expect redistricting will shrink her district, maybe chop off the Grays Harbor area or something. So she needs to run left rather than right to keep her seat. Jungle primaries mean she is invulnerable from a frothing MAGA challenger.
I don’t think she is necessarily all that smart. But I think she probably had good people advising her.
Kent
For which VP Kamala Harris would be the tie breaking vote.
Peale
@Just Some Fuckhead: Because the big time GOP funders have told them that they are pleased.
Martin
Here’s an unroll of Katie Porters live tweeting the markup of the Covid bill. Good civics lesson.
jl
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I haven’t kept track well enough to know how much of these recent stories are completely new news.
I do distinctly remember stories that started to come out a few days after the coup attempt and mob attack on Congress that Trump was guilty as hell of impeachable crimes based just on his behavior during the violence.
There were multiple stories about members of Congress, his staff, DC officials, begging him to send help while he sat their juiced, stoked, revved and totally jazzed by the spectacle he saw with his own eyes on TV. And he did nothing for hours.
Damn, what more do you need? Trump was riding high right down the main drag of high crimes and misdemeanor city, IMHO.
West of the Rockies
@Geoboy:
Swimming in a lake of flaming poo sounds about right.
James E Powell
@Just Some Fuckhead:
No matter how they feel toward each other, their hatred for the rest of us overrides all other considerations.
Major Major Major Major
Meanwhile the $2T recovery bill grows realer every second…
Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s Whitehouse suggesting that.
The House managers can request calling witnesses. But Senators don’t choose the witnesses, the House managers do. The Senators just vote on whether or not to allow it, up or down. I’m guessing there’s more than enough votes to get witnesses, provided the House managers limit it to a reasonable list. To those Whitehouse suggested, I’d add whoever is at the top of the chain of command outside of the WH overseeing the DC national guard, who can answer questions about who deployed them and when, and potentially to answer whether the Jan 4 memo was put out to ensure they wouldn’t be able to respond.
I should note, the Senate can at any point vote to suspend all of this, and just do whatever they want outside of the trial.
jl
@James E Powell:
” No matter how they feel toward each other, their hatred for the rest of us overrides all other considerations. ”
More than their hatred of each other? Hard to believe. I’ll have to think that one over.
Mike G
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Why does a lawyer publicly apologize to Dick Cheney on the hospital steps after Cheney shoots him in the face? Authoritarian Mafia culture. You kowtow to the boss no matter what he does.
prostratedragon
@dmsilev: I suspect the one in question can get that kind of thing out of people even if they start out promising they won’t fall into it, and know it won’t get them anything. Thoroughly distasteful, despicable man.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
call this guy
He’s the Philadelphia City Commissioner, in charge of elections, and he’s a Republican.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Well gee guys, it sure would be nice if you went on the record, stepped forward, and did your jobs instead of just these anonymous whisperings
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Absolutely disgusting
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: probably Stone has he met with the oath keepers in DC on the morning of the insurrection (link)
JWR
O/T – Right now, the big story on tonight’s TV news is the CA recall:
They announced it from the studios of KABC FM radio, which reminded me of the discussion yesterday about re-instituting some form of the Fairness Doctrine. I’m all for it, because it isn’t just AM radio, but FM as well. Aside from the two stations that carry NPR, (KPCC and KCRW), Pacifica (KPFK), and sports radio, it’s wingnut hell from there on out. I mean, Ben Shapiro, Dan Bongino and John Phillips? Sheesh!
Also too, hallelujah, the Visual tab is backl! (But for how long?)
ian
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Remember no matter how awful republican government gets, they will always side with each other over us. Q-anon people are just saying out loud what conservatives have thought of liberals in this country for a long time.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@JWR:
That’s ridiculous. 17.5 million votes were cast in California, 6 million were for the republican. To get a recall, all you need 8% to sign a petition. Talk about tyranny of the minority.
Chetan Murthy
@JWR: Suppose Newsom loses the recall election? What happens then? Crikey. Ugh. I don’t like the way Newsom’s fucked-up the covid response, but OTOH, FFS I sure don’t want a GrOPer governor — they’d *really* fuck things up.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Chetan Murthy:
if they keep the same rules from 2003, then it’s a two part vote:
1) keep the governor or not
2) if not, then you vote for the replacement.
In 2014 Jerry Brown got 60% of the vote (in a bad year for Dems) and in 2018 Newsome got 62% of the vote. 3 months ago Dems got 63.5% of the vote in the election. Even if Newsome is recalled, it’s hard to see how he’s replaced with republican, especially after the insurrection.
New Style In Parsons
@Kent: I think JHB has always had a loose leash from the House Republican leadership to make some ‘for show’ votes to soften her image. Her current stance seems par for the course. Although the Republicans in Battleground and most parts north of there are increasingly insane Trumpists, and I’d be delighted to see them coalesce around a Culp-level alternative in 2022 and throw the district back to the Blue Team, with the current primary format and a solid Red Wall outside Vancouver for the next couple of cycles notwithstanding redistricting, I agree with you: she’s likely to win again.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: That’s 8% to put the recall on the ballot. We’re strong believers in direct democracy(too strong IMHO), so the threshold is pretty low.
@Chetan Murthy:
The local news here in LA(and I quit watching them due to this) was saying a large majority favored locking things down and then would spend 5 mintues covering the crazies in Huntington Beach protesting the lockdown. A good number of counties wanted to move faster to open things up, Ventura County comes to mind. So Newsom didn’t have total control over a lot of these decisions.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: The only hope that the Republicans would have is either a lot of Democratic candidates splitting the vote or another Governator.
JWR
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
According to the article, “A recall effort needs a minimum of 1,495,709 valid signatures from registered voters to qualify the measure for the ballot, representing 12% of the votes cast in the last election for governor.”
I’m just beginning to get a bit uneasy about it, but only about it making it onto the ballot, because I’m fairly sure GuvGav would crush either of the two Rs in the General. Not to mention that they still have to make sure all those sigs are legit. So they still have a ways to go.
@Chetan Murthy:
I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t lose. And has he really fucked up the Covid response? I mean yeah, he’s tried to please everyone at once, but the small business owners have really been screwed over by T**** overseeing the Federal non-response, (whether they know it or not), and with the actually real response coming down the pike, I think any recall will slither back to the depths of AM, (and FM!), hate radio, where it belongs. (I hope!) But yeah, CA electing an R governor gives me a strong case of the willies.
Citizen Alan
@JWR:
I am convinced the Newsome recall is 100% driven by GQPers who want to claim the governorship just long enough to replace DIane Fienstein if she dies or is incapacitated in office between now and 2022. 100%.
Citizen Alan
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
People laughed, literally laughed, at the thought that Arnold might win the replacement vote based on winning a plurality through sheer name recognition.
Fair Economist
@Kent:
Nope, if the MAGAT gets more votes that she does and the Dems don’t oversplit then she’s booted. Top 2 jungle makes it harder to turf out a moderate but not actually all that much – the main benefit to her is that with an oversplit Dem field she might make it to a general with a MAGAT as her opponent and cruise to a win. But that’s very rare in a tight district like hers. I think Cali has had that once in 50+ districts over a decade.
The main benefit of top 2 jungles is that in a district with a heavy R lean you can get 2 Rs in the general, allowing non-R voters to pick the more moderate/reasonable candidate over the wishes of the MAGAT nuts, which are sovereign in such districts with normal rules.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Citizen Alan: It’s funny how both recalls have been against Democrats(Davis and maybe Newsom).
Fair Economist
@JWR:
Recall elections are strange and he could lose. He’s fucked it up, especially in May/June, but less than most states – in spite of the insane crowding driven by our crazy housing prices, our death rate is still well below median among states. Since the early summer screwup he hasn’t made any big mistakes – the big winter wave was apparently driven by other factors mostly out of his control.
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
Davis won with 58% in 1998, so it’s not *that* different today.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Citizen Alan: California had a history of electing actors, first George Murphy as senator in 1964 and then Ragoon as governor, both who never held office.
plus the media adored Arnold – I’m old enough to remember when the press was openly calling for the constitution to be amended to allow him to run for president.
JWR
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Same with the recent Supreme Court ruling slapping down Newsom’s orders for indoor church gatherings. The KCAL9/CBS2 news had one of the victorious pastor’s on, claiming that it was their obedience to God forcing them indoors to create holy superspreader events. No rebuttal, or any of the many reasons NOT to resume services from a scientist or a doctor from one of our many fine medical institutions. I don’t know who their Managing Editor is, or if anyone even reads the many emails I’ve sent, but that’s our Liberal Media for you.
Alas, the data-mce-fragment=”1″ is back. I strip all that stuff out, taking care not to mess up the href=”#comment html. Sure is a pain, tho.
opiejeanne
@JWR: Who is the wannabe Republican who started this recall business this time? Last time it was that car thief who went into the car alarm business, made a fortune and got himself elected to the House; I can’t think of his name.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@opiejeanne: You’re thinking of Darrell Issa, he’s tanned and rested and just got elected to the House from a different district.
JWR
@Citizen Alan: When the “Recall Grey Davis” movement was picking up steam, my Dittohead co-worker came to work one day saying to another guy, “hey, didya hear? Arnold’s running!”, like that was a good thing! My back was turned, but my eyes did major roll-work that day. And little did we know… But to be fair, he wasn’t nearly as bad as Pesticide Pete Wilson, or any other of our failed R guvs, going back to our most famous failed R guv, Ronnie Raygun. Boy, what a State. It’s much better now. ;)
Martin
@Wyatt Salamanca: Pence at least stood up to Trump in the end. McCarthy can’t manage that.
Chetan Murthy
@JWR: My argument that he fucked-up the covid response goes like this: if he’d kept the lockdown another month in the spring, we’d have suppressed the virus enough that we could have had a much more reasonable summer, and the summer surge wouldn’t have happened. Instead, we just got more lockdown in the summer. That was his mistake, and the public health folks were all telling him “don’t do it!!!” Sarah Cody went on record in print in the newspaper telling him it was a bad idea. But he did it anyway.
And now this reopening right now, this is another big-ass gamble. Instead of waiting until cases actually -do- get down to safe levels, he just assumes they will, and reopens, Madness,
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Chetan Murthy: The public heath folk may have wanted to continue keeping the lockdown, but Newsom was getting pressure to open things up from both county governments as well as the public fueled by the media. And I didn’t even mention Trump wanting everything open by Easter.
JWR
@opiejeanne: Who is the wannabe Republican who started this recall business this time?
Dunno who started it this time, but John Cox is in the running. Again! Maybe it was that ex-San Diego mayor, who’s also hoping to run. (Kevin Faulconer. That’s the ex SD mayor.) Here’s hoping they both go down in flames.
JWR
@Chetan Murthy: That was his mistake, and the public health folks were all telling him “don’t do it!!!”
Yeah, it’s his tendency to put “finger to the wind” that bugs me. But hey, at least he ain’t no Daryl Issa!
;)
Ruckus
@JWR:
Maybe John Cox will send out more emails. And gets back more answers like he did last time. The replies were so good he had to send out an email from his wife berating us about how good a man he was. I’d bet they didn’t like my return emails explaining to them what they could do to themselves and what it would take for me to even think of voting for him. I didn’t hold back. From her email I’d bet I was not alone in my estimation of his political acumen.
Luciamia
@dmsilev: I think even Hell is gonna be confused on this one.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Martin: Pence didn’t have the option to reject certified state electors. Even fluffer Jonathan Turley said “Pence cannot simply refuse to count electoral votes under the Constitution.“
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I LOVE Senator Whitehouse. He was great during the Rapist Judge hearings and is generally great at getting to the heart of the matter.
TriassicSands
What about Pence? They both are truly beyond the pale.
prostratedragon
Something cute:
And unlike < ahem > some creatures, although the pigs seemed to enjoy either or both playing the game and getting the little treat, when the study ended they showed no sign of having become addicted.
JWR
@Ruckus: Good for you! (And for us, too.)
I’ve seen a few of his TV ads, and the first thing out of his mouth is, “Hi, I’m a businessman”, and to me, that’s like saying “Hi, I’m just like our last president”. One would hope that would sink him like a stone, but in our current media culture, I’m afeard there’s still far too many people wed to the Reagan-esque notion that good businessman = good politician.
TriassicSands
Given the last four years, that strikes me as overly optimistic. It might mean he won’t win again, but Republican Party voters still could be willing to nominate him. And the potential unreliability and complacency of Democratic voters is always a problem.
WaterGirl
Disappointing to see that there is nothing on the front page of the Washington Post about this CNN story about the Kevin McCarthy / T**** phone call.
TriassicSands
It’s clear. They’re just corrupt.
yellowdog
@CaseyL: I think Putin has had the goods on most of the QOP for a long time.
Ken
Eighth circle, first bolgia. But that’s for rapists and panderers, so unless there’s something in McCarthy’s history that we don’t know, not a match.
Eighth circle, second bolgia; the flatterers. Very good match for the man who tried to sweet-talk the donor list from the guy who tried to have him killed.
Other eighth circle homes for the GQP include the grafters (boiling pitch), thieves (weird shape-stealing reptiles), evil counsellors (on fire), and the all-purpose material fraud (diseases).
trnc
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
True, and the senate majority leader can’t just refuse to schedule a hearing for nominations, but he can delay it for a year. Pence could have used the riot as an excuse to stop for the night and pick it up again after the capitol is deemed “safe.” That delay would have been one more strain on the democracy.
Alce _e_ardillo
@Geoboy: Eternity in Mar-a-Lago in July, with a broken AC, runny omlets, TV set to 24 hr Trump rallies….
Geminid
@karen marie: It is not surprising that Herrera-Butler’s story did not get much play until now. Plenty of important stories reported in state and local media fly under the radar of national media and the many “blue check” twitter mavens. Then they blow up, and people say, how is it that nobody knew about this!!? The story of CO 3rd Congresswoman Lauren Boebert and her past is an example of that. It’s harder to fault national media when there has been such a flood of consequential events. But this is a reminder that being well informed can require looking past national stories, and digging into the good state and local news resources that are at our fingertips.
Cameron
At least Charlie was funny. Kevin’s just a block of wood.
The Fat White Duchess
@TriassicSands: Everything about Pence screams “traumatic childood then trauma bonding now” to me. Plus what somebody commented earlier about mafia-style blackmail. (In case it needs to be said, I’m speaking as a therapist, and it’s meant as a possible explanation but not an excuse.). And that’s only partly based on my years of experiencing Dominionists close-ish up.
jlowe
It’s time for the Senate to vote on conviction or no, history to damn all Republicans for the consequences, and Biden Administration to move on to other business on the people’s behalf such as getting checks cut. Continuing this little drama benefits no one beyond our elite members of the media-industrial complex inhabiting the Washington DC area bubble.
karen marie
@Chetan Murthy:
You’re kidding, right?
Have you been paying attention at all?
karen marie
@Geminid: I wasn’t faulting the media. It was reported – I read it at the time.
Geminid
@karen marie: Sorry. Even though I was responding to your comment, my comment was not directed at you so much, and I would have done better just to put it out without reference to yours, since I was trying to make a more general point about the value of state and local media.
Barry
@Martin:
“Pence at least stood up to Trump in the end. McCarthy can’t manage that.”
When the crowd is chanting ‘Hang [Your Name HERE]!” and Trump is egging them on specifically to kill you, it’s rather personal.
And even then Pence won’t say sh*t publicly.
That fragment is back.
Barry
<a href="#comment-8080073" @trnc:
“True, and the senate majority leader can’t just refuse to schedule a hearing for nominations, but he can delay it for a year. Pence could have used the riot as an excuse to stop for the night and pick it up again after the capitol is deemed “safe.” That delay would have been one more strain on the democracy.”
There are two theories about why Trump did this that are equally plausible to me:
1) As a spasm of hatred and violence and power.
2) He (and his ‘advisors’) figured that if they killed Pence and a number of Reps/Senators, then Trump could get away with declaring a state of emergency, along with a state of delay, so to speak. At that point the survivors/replacements in Congress might be more ….. tractable.
brantl
@jlowe: No, put the proof out there, so at least it is obvious that the Republicans are doing the “hear no evil, see no evil” bit, with their blindfolds and earmuffs on.