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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

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You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment / Impeach the Motherfucker! / Impeachment Open Thread: Day Five

Impeachment Open Thread: Day Five

by TaMara|  February 13, 202110:09 am| 326 Comments

This post is in: Impeach the Motherfucker!, Open Threads, Politics

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Looks like we could use this. I suppose the only suspense is, witnesses, yay yea or nay.

BTW, I caved, the ducks are in the house. I needed a good reason to bleach the bathroom from ceiling to floor anyway. Photos later.

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Previous Post: « Saturday Morning Open Thread: Excellent Visuals
Next Post: Who You Gonna Call? »

Reader Interactions

326Comments

  1. 1.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:12 am

    Van “Der Ball-Peen” Veen is starting with his usual contempt.

  2. 2.

    MattF

    February 13, 2021 at 10:14 am

    Current rumors:

    • Raskin wants testimony about Trump-McCarthy argument
    • McConnell will vote to acquit
  3. 3.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 10:14 am

    Bleach. It’s not just for drinking anymore.

    //

  4. 4.

    stinger

    February 13, 2021 at 10:14 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: All that “anger” is pure theatrics. He’s playing, not to the House, but to an audience of one, squatting in Maggot-Lago.

  5. 5.

    Hoppie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:14 am

    I would say witnesses “yeah, yay”, or:  I see what you did there.

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:15 am

    I hope there is a hell deep enough for van Vile.

    Hell certainly exists when you are in his presence. Dreadful little man. Liar, defending the indefensible.

  7. 7.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:16 am

    @MattF: No rumor. Raskin called to subpoena McCarthy and Herrera Beutler in his opening statement.

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:17 am

    Heh heh.  Ven der Veen is a personal injury lawyer.

    Car crashes, motorcycle and bike accidents, dog bites.

  9. 9.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 10:18 am

    “I don’t know why you’re laughing” – Van der Pump

    Because you’re a joke, and everyone sees/knows it. Can only hope his practice goes down the shitter.

  10. 10.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:18 am

    @stinger: Van Der Ween’s presentation is literally manifested by the old chestnut, “If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.”

  11. 11.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:18 am

    @Elizabelle:

    “I don’t know why you’re laughing!”

  12. 12.

    TS (the original)

    February 13, 2021 at 10:19 am

    @MattF:

    McConnell will vote to acquit

    As if that was ever in doubt.

  13. 13.

    stinger

    February 13, 2021 at 10:19 am

    @Elizabelle: Ah, that explains the over-emoting. Surprised he’s not wearing a cervical collar.

  14. 14.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:20 am

    A threat:

    If Democrats call witnesses, Trump’s lawyer will subpoena a ton of people.

  15. 15.

    Nicole

    February 13, 2021 at 10:21 am

    Hooray!  The thought of forthcoming duck photos makes me happy.

    Today is the first day I’ll be able to watch any of it.  I’ve been alternating scrolling on Twitter between the proceedings and the Joss Whedon stuff all week.  Nice to finally see some of the proceedings live, even though I’m angry that the outcome is already decided.  The House was still right to pursue it.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:21 am

    Fulfill your oath.

    Convict him.

    Disqualify him from using the power of elected office to incite deadly insurrection again.
    — Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) February 12, 2021

  17. 17.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 10:21 am

    @Elizabelle: I guess that explains all the dumb theatrics he’s doing right now? Again striking how one side is basically calm, cool, collected, and the other is raving mad. I hope we can find out where Van der got his acting degree.

  18. 18.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:22 am

    Brothers Karamazov: “Jupiter, you are angry, therefore you are wrong.”

  19. 19.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:22 am

    @germy: I’m cool with Trump’s personal injury attorney pissing off 50 Republican senators who want this over with stat.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:22 am

    What’s this vote about?  Just tuned in.

  21. 21.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:22 am

    @germy:

    Fine. Why is that a threat? They have nothing.

  22. 22.

    Cameron

    February 13, 2021 at 10:23 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Or, in Roy Edroso’s variation, If you have neither, pound your pud.

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 10:24 am

    @MattF:

    Jake Sherman  @JakeSherman· 50m
    NEW … McConnell will vote to acquit, he says in an email to his colleagues.

    as surprising as heat in August

  24. 24.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:25 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Maybe they want more laughter.

    I was quoting Trump’s lawyer.  It sounded like a threat to me.

  25. 25.

    Hoppie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:25 am

    @Baud: As Aragorn said, “Fulfill your oath!” indeed.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 10:25 am

    One of Trump’s lawyers sitting at the table unmasked. He’s consistently done that and the presiding officer ought to cite him and rule he leave the chamber if he will not comply.

  27. 27.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 13, 2021 at 10:25 am

    @stinger: It’s the Kavanaugh move

  28. 28.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:25 am

    How many untold hours have been wasted doing voice vote calls when they could put electronics in and vote simultaneously in milliseconds.

  29. 29.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:26 am

    @NotMax:

    It’s always easy to spot the Republicans.  They’re the maskless ones, or the ones with their noses sticking out over their masks.

  30. 30.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 13, 2021 at 10:27 am

    So, there will be witnesses

  31. 31.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:28 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:   Yea!

  32. 32.

    FlyingToaster (Tablet)

    February 13, 2021 at 10:29 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: 

    [Topol voice]: Tradition! Tradition!

  33. 33.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:29 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Under oath?

    And can they refuse to appear?

  34. 34.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 10:29 am

    C-span changed its chyron from “vote on whether to call witnesses” to “vote on whether to subpoena witnesses”

    mmmmm subpoenas

  35. 35.

    LurkerNoLonger

    February 13, 2021 at 10:29 am

     

     

    @MattF: what’s the Trump-McCarthy argument?

  36. 36.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:29 am

    Collins.  King.  Murkowski.  Romney.  and some I missed.  Voted for witnesses.  Yea!

  37. 37.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:30 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Cool. I guess the Internet will have to look for a new excuse to blame Dems when the GOP votes to aquit.

  38. 38.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 10:30 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead

    Much prefer it this way as one can immediately put together a name with a vote. An electronic board with 100 names on it not nearly as directly communicative, and probably wouldn’t be on screen long enough to thoroughly scan at home.

  39. 39.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:30 am

    Senator PotatoTown voted no.

    Lindsey just changed his vote to “yes”

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:30 am

    Graham just changed his vote to aye.

  41. 41.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 10:31 am

    Andrew Solender @AndrewSolender · 10m
    van der Veen insists on taking Pelosi and Harris’ depositions, adding “not by zoom. In person, in my office in Philadelphia,” prompting laughter from senators. “I don’t know why you’re laughting,” he says

    did this look as bad on TeeVee as it does on twitter?

  42. 42.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:31 am

    Jesus. The World’s Greatest Deliberative Body is mostly a cockup.

  43. 43.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:32 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It’s always sunny in Philadelphia.

  44. 44.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:32 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Even worse, since he said “Philly-delphia.”

  45. 45.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:33 am

    This is going to go on a few more days.

    How delightful for Democrats; less so for Republicans.  And the press, tracking down everything they can about the McCarthy-Trump call, which van der Vile (I think) says did not happen, which means it did.

  46. 46.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:33 am

    @Elizabelle: I’m guessing with Graham voting for witnesses that means Republicans have some BLMAntifacorn miscreants lined up.

  47. 47.

    Damned_at_Random

    February 13, 2021 at 10:34 am

    So TaMara is patient 0 for the 2021 Duck Flu.

    Does Trumps defense expect him to pay for 100 depositions in Philadelphia? Or is Van Der Whatever doing one of those personal injury type “you only pay if we win” arrangements?

  48. 48.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 10:34 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Kevin M. Kruse@KevinMKruse
    ·
    13m
    The reason they’re all laughing at you, Van Der Veen, is that in the Clinton impeachment trial, the testimony of witnesses was taken remotely on videotape and then played in the Senate.

    No one had to go down to your office in Phillyaheedelphia

  49. 49.

    Josie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:34 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    It’s the unavoidable Trump effect.  He dirties up everything he touches.

  50. 50.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:34 am

    Trump lawyer’s epitaph:

    “I’d rather be in Philadelphia”

  51. 51.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:35 am

    @Elizabelle:

    He’s not even that. He’s an ambulance chaser.

    55 to 45 is decent, but keep this in mind, you smug shits so sure of the outcome: “Alexander Butterfield, bitchez.”

  52. 52.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:35 am

    @germy: 
    I really did Nazi that coming.
    I guess he really does want to “call the FBI.”

  53. 53.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:35 am

    @NotMax: Have you tried mustard for your leg cramps?  I get terrible muscle spasms from one of my medications, think it’s the glipizide, and mustard stops the cramps immediately, miraculously.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:35 am

    Trump’s lawyer is upset because Trump ain’t paying him for the extra time.

  55. 55.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 10:35 am

    @LurkerNoLonger:

    Phone call on January 6. Covered in detail here.

  56. 56.

    MattF

    February 13, 2021 at 10:36 am

    @LurkerNoLonger: This. The immediate question is about the Orange Inciter’s intent. The less immediate question is about McCarthy’s betrayal of truth, justice, etc.

  57. 57.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @Immanentize:

    Who is Senator PotatoTown?

  58. 58.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @Immanentize:

    I figured Lindsey wants to subpoena HRC.  Hell, maybe even Obama.

  59. 59.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @germy:

    Senator PotatoTown

    Google points me to Dan Quayle, so please, who is this?

  60. 60.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @zhena gogolia: “Tuberville”

  61. 61.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @germy:

    ka MAH la Harris

  62. 62.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:37 am

    @germy:

    I wish a mothetfucker would.

  63. 63.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:38 am

    @debbie:

    Senator Tuberville.

  64. 64.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:38 am

    @M31:

    Oh, duh.

  65. 65.

    artem1s

    February 13, 2021 at 10:38 am

    @germy:

    yep they will in the hopes of creating impeachment fatigue.  probably call Hillary just so the MAGAts can revel in some good old CDS. for sue they are going to try to call Hunter Biden.  His Excellency will insist on it

    But the longer they keep it up the bigger their bill is going to be and the more $ they lose when His Excellency stiffs them. And they know it. They are visibly losing steam and the Dems are maintaining the right tone and energy. Not sure that tactic will work the way they think it will

  66. 66.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:38 am

    @germy:

    Nope, it will be Hunter Biden.

  67. 67.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 10:38 am

    Dan Quayle is “PotatoeTown”

  68. 68.

    dmsilev

    February 13, 2021 at 10:38 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Graham made some vague threats about “if you call witnesses, so will we and you’ll be sorry” a week or so ago. I think mostly bluster, plus a bit of what you suggest of some “it was antifa!” squid-ink.

  69. 69.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    @germy:

    Thanks. I can get back to cleaning now.

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    So this was not a motion to call witnesses but to allow debate on the question of calling witnesses.

    More fun coming!

  71. 71.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    Ed O’Keefe on CBS just called this an “escalation.”

    “We thought this would wrap up today.”

  72. 72.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    @zhena gogolia: I had to think about it for a minute but then I was “forget it, Jake, it’s Potatotown”

  73. 73.

    Honus

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    @Elizabelle: well, this is a car wreck

  74. 74.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    IIUC, impeachment isn’t a trial in either the civil or criminal sense.  So, will witnesses be sworn in?  Will they be able to take the fifth? Can the Senate grant immunity in exchange for testimony?

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 10:39 am

    Subpoena Barr. To under oath affirm he told Dolt 45 what he was doing was “bullshit” and why it was.

  76. 76.

    H.E.Wolf

    February 13, 2021 at 10:40 am

    I admire many of the Senators on the Democratic side of the aisle.

    As we all know, conflating Democrats and Republicans into a single disparaged group, when the two groups behave so differently, plays right into the hands of people who know how to exploit that mistake.

  77. 77.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 10:40 am

    @germy: That was my thought. They’re looking to turn this into a bigger shit show by going down the Ken Starr route.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:40 am

    @artem1s:

    A lot of GOP strategy involves outlasting our side, because their base only cares about hating us, while our base wants things accomplished.  It’s a strategy we need to learn to defeat.

  79. 79.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 10:40 am

    Pat Leahy up there struggling to express a coherent thought isn’t a good look for our gerontocracy.

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:41 am

    I’ve thought the press is way too quick in assuring us the trial will go as their Republican sources tell us.

    Do wonder if the GOP will drag their witnesses out a lot, to put a delay in confirming Biden appointees.  As in Merrick Garland.  To see.

    The Democrats can call some very good ones, and the Trump counsel has proved so inadequate so far they could score more “own goals” with their own witnesses.

    It is shameful to have the vast majority of Republicans play-acting for Fox News and der Trump.  I hope it bites them so hard, and sooner rather than later.  They, and a lot of the press, are lagging indicators and don’t live in the real world.

  81. 81.

    TS (the original)

    February 13, 2021 at 10:41 am

    @germy:  MSNBC saying it will delay senate business, could go on for weeks, stopping debate on covid bill etc etc etc.

    I clicked off.

  82. 82.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:41 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Ha!

    KA-mah-la will be called and disrespected for FOX viewers.

  83. 83.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 10:42 am

    @Ken: here’s a partial primer (read the thread):

    Kevin M. Kruse@KevinMKruse

    Worth repeating.

    The Senate impeachment trials of both Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton featured new testimony that the House had not relied upon when it passed their Articles of Impeachment.

    You can argue things should be different now, but that’s actually how it worked before.

  84. 84.

    JMG

    February 13, 2021 at 10:42 am

    I was totally wrong in the earlier thread and damn glad of it. IMO Mitch played himself by announcing his acquittal vote before the witness motion. Made Schumer and other Dems mad enough to want to rub his nose in the case as long as they possibly can.

  85. 85.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:43 am

    @germy:   I don’t know why the press was so sure this was going to wrap up today.  That is from the Republicans, I am sure.

    Lazy press corpse.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:43 am

    @Immanentize:

    You would think the Dem votes would be the same for both. But we’ll see.

  87. 87.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:43 am

    @Immanentize:

    Oh, then most of twitter is wrong?

  88. 88.

    Jeffro

    February 13, 2021 at 10:43 am

    Hell yes!  Oh, GQP…y’all walked right into this one.

  89. 89.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:44 am

    @Leto: That is actually how it is supposed to work as per the procedures for this trial — the question of further witnesses was to be debated AFTER the presentation of evidence and arguments.

  90. 90.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:44 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Isn’t it usually?

  91. 91.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:44 am

    @zhena gogolia: That has never happened before.

  92. 92.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:45 am

    @Immanentize:

    Why does Washington Post say “In a surprise move, Senate votes to call witnesses in Trump’s impeachment trial”?

  93. 93.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:45 am

    @Honus:   Multi-lane.

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 10:45 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    A-fucking-men. ?

  95. 95.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 10:46 am

    Which is more surprising?

    ☑️ I caved, the ducks are in the house.

    -or-

    ☑️ Van “Der Ball-Peen” Veen is starting with his usual contempt.

  96. 96.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:47 am

    @zhena gogolia:   I know.  Wired for Republicans.

    Or maybe Democrats were playing their cards close to the chest?

    I truly do not see the downside to witnesses, even realizing the GOP will try to put up some ridiculous ones.

    Make a record for history.  Make this hurt really, really bad for the GOP who want to convict and speed on to other obstruction.  Make it a hard vote for them.

  97. 97.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 10:47 am

    @germy: Lindsey just changed his vote to “yes”

    Who’d voted just before?  That might help us figure out who he’s attached himself to, lamprey-like.  (Or wants to attach to.)

  98. 98.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 13, 2021 at 10:47 am

    @Immanentize:  Next you’ll tell us there’s no Tooth Fairy. I don’t know how much disillusionment I can take today.

  99. 99.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 10:48 am

    @NotMax:

    Bleach Blech. It’s not just for drinking Ozark Hillbilly anymore.

    //

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    February 13, 2021 at 10:48 am

    What’s the orange moron’s preferred, non-Twitter, method of communication these days?

    ‘Cause he sure as heck is going to melt down publicly later today, and I (god help me) want to hear/see/read it.

    I want him running scared and publicly acting out…you know, like a good, non-inciting Mr. Innocent kind of guy would do.

    LOL

  101. 101.

    MattF

    February 13, 2021 at 10:49 am

    @Elizabelle: Just consider the way Cruz and Rubio reacted to their 2016 humiliation. The abuser and his victims cooperate.

  102. 102.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:49 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I mean, Imm says it was just a vote to debate whether or not to call witnesses. But everything I’m seeing, including WaPo, is saying it was a vote to call witnesses. So I’m confused.

    ETA: And NYT:
    Senate Votes to Hear Witnesses,

  103. 103.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 10:49 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: They are equally unsurprising.  The ducks are in the house because you are a decent person; Veen is spewing because he is the diametrical opposite of decent.

  104. 104.

    Another Scott

    February 13, 2021 at 10:49 am

    @TS (the original):  Yeah.  Reporters live on Twitter but apparently don’t read people who know what they are tweeting about…

    Calling witnesses doesn't *have* to delay other legislative business. Rule XI allows the Senate to appoint a committee to hear testimony and report back to the full Senate. Witnesses would be under oath, there'd be a full record, and the Senate could carry on in the meantime. pic.twitter.com/DtBGePEwPQ— Andrew Crespo (@AndrewMCrespo) February 13, 2021

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  105. 105.

    dmsilev

    February 13, 2021 at 10:50 am

    @Jeffro:

    What’s the orange moron’s preferred, non-Twitter, method of communication these days?

    Issuing statements on “Office of the 45th President” letterhead, complete with a version of the seal that looks like it was drawn in MS Paint.

  106. 106.

    RandomMonster

    February 13, 2021 at 10:50 am

    The duck calls are coming from inside the house. ?

  107. 107.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:50 am

    @Gin & Tonic: wait til we get to Father Christmas!

  108. 108.

    Jeffro

    February 13, 2021 at 10:51 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

     

    @Steeplejack:

    Sure would be nice if, post the 2022 elections, the extremely elder leadership of the Dems held a news conference and talked about the need to hand over the reins…and then did so.  Sort of their own Captain America-hands-over-the-shield-to-the-Falcon moment.

    Also, I would like a pony for Christmas, I know.  But still.

  109. 109.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 10:51 am

    my prediction:

    1. GQPers try to make impeachment stall Joe Biden’s agenda
    2. forcing the elimination of the filibuster (to pass the COVID-Relief and West Virginia Money Spigot Bill)
    3. Trump’s lawyers quit because they haven’t been paid
  110. 110.

    Spanky

    February 13, 2021 at 10:51 am

    “I am a shit, I must acquit”.

    (Apologies to dead Johnny Cochran.)

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    February 13, 2021 at 10:51 am

    @dmsilev: sigh

    I was hoping for something really stupid on video.  But if a rambling, offensive, misspelled memo is all we’re gonna get…I’ll take it.

  112. 112.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 10:52 am

    @MattF

    Crockholm syndrome.

  113. 113.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 10:52 am

    @Elizabelle: Trump counsel has proved so inadequate so far they could score more “own goals” with their own witnesses.

    That is certainly my expectation.  Remember, Trump thinks it’s a good thing that his followers will get up there and say “The election was stolen and only violent action, as ordered by our commander-in-chief for life Donald Trump, will save the day!”

  114. 114.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:53 am

    @Jeffro:

    Did Pelosi already say she’s stepping down after 2022?

  115. 115.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:53 am

    @zhena gogolia: The fact that the motion passed means — in most likelihood — that witnesses will be called.  BUT, there is no provision or vote or agreement regarding how many or under what circumstances.  That is why it was a vote to debate the issuing of subpoenas.  K?

  116. 116.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:54 am

    @zhena gogolia:   I never heard what the vote was for, to begin with.

    Anyway, I never believed this thing would wrap today.  Which is nothing but a guess.

    I think events are building the Democrats’ way, outside the Senate chamber.  More evidence.  More stories will come out.

    C-Span said this was a vote for calling witnesses.

    Also that “Cornyn, Thune and Portman are huddling” in Thune’s office right now.

    Maybe they have their fingers out the window, to take the temperature.

  117. 117.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 10:54 am

    @Immanentize:

    Oh, the debate is over the issuing of subpoenas. I thought you said it was a debate about whether to call witnesses.

  118. 118.

    LurkerNoLonger

    February 13, 2021 at 10:54 am

    @MattF: Thank you. That’s some crazy shit. I’m glad they will call him to testify.

  119. 119.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:55 am

    C-Span says Senate will appoint a committee for witnesses.

    It’ll be like Benghazi but legitimate.

  120. 120.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:55 am

    @Jeffro:   Excluding Nancy Smash!  She gets to stay as long as she wants.  Love her.

    Agree, Leahey seems very frail.  Bad decision by him to preside.

  121. 121.

    MattF

    February 13, 2021 at 10:56 am

    @Ken: Right. Trump’s ‘theory’ for Jan. 6 is that he was doing the correct thing. He’s never moved from that position.

  122. 122.

    TS (the original)

    February 13, 2021 at 10:56 am

    @Another Scott:

    Thanks. I think the media pundits hear many leaks from republicans but are owed no favors by democrats who seem able to not leak information when talking to the press.

  123. 123.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 10:56 am

    @zhena gogolia: The motion was whether to debate the issuing of subpoenas.  It was not a motion to call witnesses.

    Issuing subpoenas will certainly lead to calling witnesses.  Or force McConnell to whip 17 senators to vote for conviction.

  124. 124.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 10:56 am

    @Ken:

    I’m not a decent person*. That would be TaMara.

    *(ETA: I stand with Baud!)

  125. 125.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 10:56 am

    @Elizabelle:

    After him, the next senior is Feinstein.

  126. 126.

    JMG

    February 13, 2021 at 10:56 am

    The Senate is both judge and jury in impeachment trials, so every motion on witnesses is subject to a vote. A reporter, forget who, on Twitter said they should just have Romney, Collins, Sasse and Murkowski write up a list of witnesses they’ll vote to hear and save some time.

  127. 127.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 10:57 am

    @Jeffro:

    the extremely elder leadership of the Dems held a news conference

    “extremely elderly”? Schumer and Murray are both 70, Durbin is 76 and doesn’t seem to be losing it to my eye. I wouldn’t call any of them extremely elderly.

  128. 128.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:57 am

    Lindsey thinks it's a big threat to call Pelosi. But not only doesn't she help him in the way Fox News has led him to believe she will, but she, too, will be able to talk about calls that went unheeded.

    — emptywheel (@emptywheel) February 13, 2021

  129. 129.

    japa21

    February 13, 2021 at 10:58 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
      Trick question. Neither one is in the least bit surprising.

  130. 130.

    Percysowner

    February 13, 2021 at 10:58 am

    @germy:

     

    I figured Lindsey wants to subpoena HRC. Hell, maybe even Obama.

    I’m not sure Lindsey is stupid enough to call Hillary “I withstood 11 hours of your stupid questions and didn’t break a sweat AND I have OPINIONS I’d like to share” Clinton to testify.

    I do think he wants to call Hunter Biden and then do his level best to drive him out of recovery and back to using drugs. Because Lindsey is, like most Republican Senators, scum.

  131. 131.

    MattF

    February 13, 2021 at 10:59 am

    @germy: If Graham is actually underestimating Pelosi, he’s in big trouble.

  132. 132.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 10:59 am

    @Another Scott:

    Is that right? Claire McCaskill said on MSNBC a few minutes ago that the Senate cannot conduct other business while an impeachment trial is on. Can they adjourn it or call a recess while they interview witnesses? And, even if they do, does that allow other business to go forward? The whole situation is murky, to say the least.

  133. 133.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 10:59 am

    @germy:   I remember the stories about Nancy Pelosi and others calling from their more secure locations, once they’d been rushed to safety, pleading and pleading for National Guard backup.

    Pelosi called Governor Ralph Northam of Virginia directly, on his personal cell phone.  Steney Hoyer was calling Maryland Governor Larry Hogan pleading for that state’s National Guard.

    Nancy P told Northam she could hear glass breaking.

    Bring them on.

    Republicans been drinking their fake ass KoolAid too long.

  134. 134.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 10:59 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I remember the old joke:

    A man gets on a train with his little boy, and gives the conductor only one ticket. ‘How old’s your kid?’ the conductor says, and the father says, ‘He’s four years old.’ ‘He looks at least twelve to me,’ says the conductor. And the father says, ‘Can I help it if he worries?’

  135. 135.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:00 am

    @Elizabelle: It was not entirely his decision.  He is the President Pro Tempore of the Senate as the longest serving Dem. Senator (And Senator, period, I believe, making him also the Senate’s “Dean”).

    The President Pro Tem serves when the Vice President does not.  Or, in cases of impeachment, when the Chief Justice does not.

  136. 136.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 11:00 am

    lol Quevin McCarthy is on the phone to Trump right now saying “turn over your voter list or I talk”

  137. 137.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:01 am

    Senate Republicans are like 45ish defense attorneys for Trump, not jurors.

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:01 am

    @Baud:   Gag.

  139. 139.

    lollipopguild

    February 13, 2021 at 11:02 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: “Be kind to your web footed friends, because a duck could be somebody’s mother.’

  140. 140.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:02 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    did this look as bad on TeeVee as it does on twitter?

    Just in case that wasn’t a rhetorical question, the answer is Yes, yes it did.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:02 am

    @Immanentize:   OK.  Thank you.

  142. 142.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 11:02 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Maybe they have their fingers out the window, to take the temperature.

    “Do you think they’re hiring at the Federalist Society? Heritage Foundation? Think they’ll take us by Monday morning?”

  143. 143.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:03 am

    Also subpoena the Secret Service detail on duty at the White House as to what commnication, and when, was made to Dolt 45 on January 6.

    @Immanentize

    “If the Democrats want to play that game, we’ll call hundreds of witnesses.”

    “Ah, fight like hell, huh?”

    //

  144. 144.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:03 am

    I am now regretting my decision to watch the impeachment trial because the clients on Love It or List It were more dickish and entitled than usual.

  145. 145.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 11:03 am

    cSpan replaying the opening statements today — Raskin was cool and factual and now Trump’s lawyer is screaming and pounding things

    ‘when you don’t have the facts or the law, pound your peen’ or something

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:04 am

    @MattF: Pelosi is not the greatest public speaker, but she is one of the greatest political leaders of our time, I believe.  Witnesses will not be in the well of the Senate.  They will be recorded.  No Perry Mason moment for Graham.

  147. 147.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 11:04 am

    @MattF:

    If Graham is actually underestimating Pelosi, he’s in big trouble.

    also…. has he been watching trump’s lawyers? Does he think he’s gonna break Nancy with a devastatingly worded question from his desk handed down to VanderVeen?

    my recollection of the Clinton trial is that Monica Lewinsky was cool and poised and made the House managers deposing her look like stammering old men. I don’t think Lindsey was in on that— the name Steve Chabot floats down from the attic of my brain– his job was to crank up his accent and be the earnest young Southern lawyer, calling for the Senate to do it’s sad but necessary duty….

  148. 148.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:04 am

    Katy Tur looks so much like her dad, particularly since he transitioned.

  149. 149.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 11:05 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    That’s how NPR is framing it. I’m confused.

  150. 150.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:06 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Have you tried mustard for your leg cramps? I get terrible muscle spasms from one of my medications, think it’s the glipizide, and mustard stops the cramps immediately, miraculously.

    Do you eat the mustard, or rub it on the affected area, or lose it, or what?

  151. 151.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:06 am

    @Steeplejack

    They can (and have) move to adjourn to regular business, with the impeachment proceedings to resume at such and such a day and time

  152. 152.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 11:06 am

    @germy:

    I look forward to Nancy and Ambulance Chaser debating the meaning of “fight.” He’s lost before he even began!

  153. 153.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:06 am

    Here’s the other problem @KFaulders and I are hearing – trouble in lawyer land. Remember this legal team was already fighting amongst themselves but they pulled it together for what they thought was one last day – now what happens is completely unclear.

    — John Santucci (@Santucci) February 13, 2021

  154. 154.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:06 am

    Weird headline by the WaPost:  Senate to call witnesses, delaying verdict

    Well.  The trial is incomplete, is it not?  Even if the verdict is expected.  But events can change.

  155. 155.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 11:07 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Next you’ll tell us there’s no Tooth Fairy.

    There is a Tooth Fairy. Pray you never meet him

    (See the BJ Hogfather discussion.)

  156. 156.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:07 am

    @lollipopguild: I am quite happy to see your nym again!
    Also, too:
    Be kind to your friends in Cracker’s swamp,
    Where the weather is very very dahmp.

  157. 157.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:08 am

    @Elizabelle:

    CBS chyron:

    Senate Votes 55-45 to allow witnesses, extending trial

  158. 158.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:08 am

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Yeah, I too was confoozled.

    Hm. Have some port wine Dijon mustard lurking in the recesses of the fridge.

  159. 159.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 11:09 am

    @germy:

    When was Van Der Whatever added to the team? I’m surprised he didn’t have a turn to speak along with Castor and Schoen that first day.

  160. 160.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:09 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Eat a spoonful. I just tilt my head backwards and squirt it in my mouth.

  161. 161.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:09 am

    @germy:  I prefer CBS, with extending trial vs. “delaying verdict.”

    Just a weird construct there.  “We don’t have to get it right, we just have to get it fast!”

  162. 162.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:09 am

    @Elizabelle: That is the thing — the trial was in the bag for Trump unless something big happened.  And yesterday, something big happened.

  163. 163.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 11:10 am

    @Immanentize: Or, in cases of impeachment, when the Chief Justice does not.

    Really, really hoping someone manages to slip in “Even John Roberts, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, says that Donald Trump is no longer president.” Just to drive you-know-who’s blood pressure up.

  164. 164.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:10 am

    MSNBC saying they caught up with J. Castro in the hall just now, asked him “How many witnesses are you going to call?” He said, “Lots.”

    Hmmmm.

    edit: CASTOR, Bruce Castor, not Castro.

  165. 165.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 11:11 am

    lol Van der Peen is hilarious with the sound off, he’s like a histrionic coach on the sidelines miming to the refs WE WUZ ROBBED

    and about as credible

  166. 166.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:11 am

    Why can’t they subpoena Trump? He’s a private citizen.

  167. 167.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:11 am

    @debbie: Schoen stand in, as I understand, because of the Sabbath.  Schoen don’t roll on Shabbos.

  168. 168.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 11:11 am

    @germy: Schoen apparently tried to quit Friday night, trump reeled him back in.

    Remember when trump brought in Dale Bumpers? I wonder who trump thinks can be that kind of big gun elder statesman for him. Rudi? Lindsey? Pillow Guy?

  169. 169.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:12 am

    @debbie:

    I honestly don’t know.  I think one of Trump’s lawyers couldn’t work on a Saturday.  And I read that one of the lawyers threatened to quit Thursday night, until Trump called him to soothe his ruffled feathers.

  170. 170.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:12 am

    Adam Schiff is on the phone with CBS right now, and says calling witnesses is the right decision.

  171. 171.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:13 am

    @Ken: Sadly, such a statement would probably increase the Q targets on Robert’s back.  Sad/not sad?  Politically those guys would be better humans if they felt the heat they hoisted on others.

  172. 172.

    Betty Cracker

    February 13, 2021 at 11:15 am

    From CNN (20 mins ago)

    People on former President Trump’s impeachment team are surprised by the turn of events this morning. Some who have been helping the team had been making travel plans to leave on Monday, according to a source familiar.

    As of 9 a.m. ET this morning the team was under the impression there would be no witnesses. Now, the source groaned “it will never end.”

    Another source confirmed they’re shocked by this development. While they had floated having a list of witnesses, they hadn’t prepared a real list, the source said. They’re huddling now on the phone with other aides about how to proceed.

    Ha. Dems called their bluff.

    PS: I want the trial to last forever. I think it’s the only thing keeping Trump’s big fat mouth shut (aside from the social media ban).

  173. 173.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:15 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    MSNBC saying they caught up with J. Castro in the hall just now, asked him “How many witnesses are you going to call?” He said, “Lots.”

    CORRECTION via MSNBC:

    Not Castro, as first reported. CASTOR, Bruce Castor.

    (I knew those two names would trip someone up sooner or later.)

  174. 174.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:15 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Tuberville, of course!

  175. 175.

    JWR

    February 13, 2021 at 11:16 am

    Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler was on Firing Line last night, taped earlier than what’s happening right now, and from what little I saw, she struck me as a bog standard R, meaning an old-school, GWB type R, and not a Ted Cruz R, and so my fear that she may be some sort of Marjorie Taylor-Greene operative has eased.

    Ooo, Adam Schiff calling in to CBS.

  176. 176.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 11:17 am

    @Immanentize:

    Yep.

  177. 177.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:17 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I was thinking — I can’t imagine the House managers saying that.  Caster is going to quickly learn he is not in charge of the number of witnesses called.

  178. 178.

    rikyrah

    February 13, 2021 at 11:18 am

    YEAH

    Ducks are in the house ??

  179. 179.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 11:18 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Yeah, that sounded rather injudicious for Castro to say.

  180. 180.

    Immanentize

    February 13, 2021 at 11:19 am

    @Betty Cracker: re: calling bluff.  Those digits railed against the House managers for not having witnesses.  They really can’t cry now that they are getting what they complained about.

    Due Process!

  181. 181.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:19 am

    @JWR:

    She votes 95% of the time with Republicans.  Wanted to make Medicare a voucher system.  Opposes same sex marriage. Voted to repeal Obamacare.  Voted for Paul Ryan’s tax cuts.

    But the Q stuff is a bridge too far for her.

    This is why Schiff just called her a better potential witness than McCarthy.

  182. 182.

    Cameron

    February 13, 2021 at 11:19 am

    @germy: He’s losing it.  How can this be helpful to his cause?  I think she’d be a really formidable witness.

  183. 183.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:19 am

    @Immanentize:

    Yeah, that was why I put “Hmmmmm” in my first (erroneous) comment.

  184. 184.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 11:20 am

    @Immanentize: does the Senate still have to vote on the witnesses they’ll allow?

    I remember a reporter asking Nancy Pelosi if she was surprised by I forget what. She gave him that level stare for a couple of beats and then said, “I’m never surprised in this job.”

    I wonder if Mitch was surprised today.

  185. 185.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:20 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    “You have my word I’ll triple the fee which I have no intention of ever paying.”

    //

  186. 186.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:20 am

    @NotMax:

    Yesterday on MSNBC Nicolle Wallace, as a veteran of the Dubya White House, said that it is preposterous to believe that Trump didn’t know what was going on with Mike Pence. The Secret Service details are in constant communication with one another and with high government officials, e.g., Trump’s chief of staff. She gave examples: “All stations, Roadrunner [Dubya] is moving to [wherever].” And so forth. The Secret Service at the Capitol would have informed their counterparts at the White House, if only to alert them to be on the lookout for problems there.

  187. 187.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 11:21 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    On MSNBC, they’re extolling Mitch’s political genius.

  188. 188.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:23 am

    Chuck Todd is the most vapid political observer on the planet, even more than Luke Russert when they made him a politico on his 13th birthday in honor of his dead dad. In a meritocracy, Chuck Todd would be explaining to you why they ran out of roast beef on his Arby’s shift.

  189. 189.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 11:23 am

    Man, Chuck Todd makes a decent point.

    I hate agreeing with him.

  190. 190.

    rikyrah

    February 13, 2021 at 11:23 am

    @NotMax:

    Muscle cramps

    I always have a Gatorade in the fridge

    Also, I have Leg Cramp tablets by Hylands

  191. 191.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:23 am

    @rikyrah

    And everyone has tiptoed around making a comment including the words duck and dynasty.

    ;)

  192. 192.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 11:23 am

    John Santucci  @Santucci · 22m
    Sources close to president Trump are floored by what just happened. “Stunned”. “Stupefied”. “Digesting this” are the words @KFaulders & me are hearing.

    I bet they’re praying he doesn’t get a bee in his bonnet about testifying. Or calling a press conference. Or making a phone call to an old friend, like Judge Box-O’Wine

  193. 193.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:24 am

    An alert from the FTF NY Times, making it sound like only one witness.  I don’t know that I believe the only one at this juncture.  To see.

    BREAKING NEWS

    In an unexpected turn, the Senate voted to call witnesses in Donald Trump’s trial, delaying a verdict. Follow live updates and analysis.

    Saturday, February 13, 2021 10:40 AM EST

    The Senate approved delaying a final verdict in former President Trump’s impeachment trial so that Democrats could call a Republican congresswoman as a witness and subpoena her notes after she confirmed she was told that Mr. Trump had sided with the mob during as rioters were attacking the Capitol.

  194. 194.

    M31

    February 13, 2021 at 11:25 am

    GOP witness list:

    Hunter Biden, Hilary Clinton, uh, Ben Ghazi, uhhhhh, Saul Alinsky, uhhhhhh

  195. 195.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:25 am

    @Steeplejack: Roadrunner sounds way cooler than Snackchoker.

  196. 196.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:25 am

    @Baud:

    I think I recall that she plans to step down as Speaker/Leader after the 2022 elections. Haven’t heard that she intends to resign her House seat just yet. Happy to be corrected by someone who actually knows.

  197. 197.

    TriassicSands

    February 13, 2021 at 11:25 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    They don’t want it over. The outcome is known no matter how many witnesses are called. Republicans want to call “100” witnesses in order to disrupt Biden’s agenda. Their goal is always obstructive and negative.

  198. 198.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 11:26 am

    @Baud:

    Wha?

  199. 199.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:26 am

    @M31: Ben Ghazi

    lol

  200. 200.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 11:26 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    That’s what I meant.

  201. 201.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 11:26 am

    @Baud:

    What was it?

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:26 am

    Katy Tur and Chuck Todd are reminding me of the Tappet Brothers on Car Talk once saying that sometimes two people can actually know less about a topic than one person.

  203. 203.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:27 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Working fast food requires the ability to think on one’s feet, to juggle multiple responsibilities, and quickly deal with a variety of personalities. It’s not easy work, or dumb work.

    I think your analogy would work better if an Arby’s employee said “You’re looking for Chuck?  He was fired last week.”

  204. 204.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:28 am

    @rikyrah

    Have had a problem with Gatorade since first it appeared. Knocks me out faster than listening to Ben Stein recite The Iliad.

    And not a good nor a restful sleep, more like blank unconsciousness.

  205. 205.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 11:28 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    About the media leading to false expectations about timing and the practice of not holding people accountable because it would rock the boat.

  206. 206.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:28 am

    @germy: I literally said he ran out of roast beef in a roast beef restaurant to make that exact point. And don’t talk to me like I’m shitting on fast food employees. I’ve worked fast food. You need to apologize and then step down.

  207. 207.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:28 am

    @germy:   “He’s the one who forgot to order the beef.”

  208. 208.

    Brachiator

    February 13, 2021 at 11:29 am

    @MattF:

    Raskin wants testimony about Trump-McCarthy argument

    We know for an absolute fact that Trump refused to directly lead the mob, and that he refused to call off the mob.

    We know for an absolute fact that the Republican leadership assumed that Trump was in control of the mob. We know for an absolute fact that Trump enjoyed this nasty bit of power.

    And yet, the Republicans may foolishly let Trump continue to be politically relevant. The man who didn’t care whether they lived or died.

  209. 209.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:30 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Well that certainly escalated.

  210. 210.

    Damned_at_Random

    February 13, 2021 at 11:30 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Yeah. we have MSNBC on. My very mellow spousal unit just opined “What a fucking abortion”

  211. 211.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:31 am

    @germy: Why did you feel the need to escalate it?

  212. 212.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:31 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Schoen briefly quit Thursday night, not Friday.

  213. 213.

    Spanky

    February 13, 2021 at 11:31 am

    1. 188.

      Just Some Fuckhead
      FEBRUARY 13, 2021 AT 11:23 AM

      Chuck Todd is the most vapid political observer on the planet, even more than Luke Russert when they made him a politico on his 13th birthday in honor of his dead dad. In a meritocracy, Chuck Todd would be explaining to you why they ran out of roast beef on his Arby’s shift.

      Reply

    2. 189.

      Baud
      FEBRUARY 13, 2021 AT 11:23 AM

      Man, Chuck Todd makes a decent point.

      I hate agreeing with him.

    OK, what the hell just happened?

  214. 214.

    rikyrah

    February 13, 2021 at 11:31 am

    @Elizabelle:

    The Chief Justice refused to preside, didn’t he??

  215. 215.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:32 am

    @M31: I think you give Qevin too much credit.

  216. 216.

    Baud

    February 13, 2021 at 11:32 am

    @Spanky:

    JSF is correct as a general matter.  MSNBC this morning is awful. But Todd made one decent point in the middle of the garbage.

  217. 217.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:33 am

    @Spanky: Baud is always looking for the good in people.

  218. 218.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:34 am

    @Brachiator

    As mentioned downstairs, nonfeasance of office.

  219. 219.

    JWR

    February 13, 2021 at 11:34 am

    @germy: Oh wow, guess I shoulda watched more of the show. Either that, or update my definition of what a bog-standard R actually is. But she talked about lower taxes, personal freedumb, all that buzz word BS.

  220. 220.

    Delk

    February 13, 2021 at 11:34 am

    Just woke up. Pondering whether to go back to bed. I’d play in the snow if I didn’t have the bone density of a man forty years my senior.

  221. 221.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:35 am

    @lollipopguild:

    “… Be kind to your friends in the swamp,
    Where the evenings are cold and dahmp.
    You’re hoping that this is the end,
    Well, it is.”

  222. 222.

    RandomMonster

    February 13, 2021 at 11:35 am

    @Betty Cracker: PS: I want the trial to last forever. I think it’s the only thing keeping Trump’s big fat mouth shut (aside from the social media ban).

    I so agree! I don’t think the Republicans can pull any sympathy or goodwill from hearings, either.

  223. 223.

    zhena gogolia

    February 13, 2021 at 11:35 am

    @Baud:

    Good for him.

  224. 224.

    Geminid

    February 13, 2021 at 11:35 am

    @Betty Cracker: The members of the defense team may need to move on to some paid work. Even if they got some money up front, from now on they probably are working pro-bonehead.

  225. 225.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:35 am

    @JWR:

    She didn’t mention those details on the show.  She stuck with the “freedom” buzzwords

    I’d never heard of her before, so I check wikipedia last night during the show.

  226. 226.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 11:36 am

    I don’t really want them to subpoena him, but I hope somebody can work into their sworn testimony that Lindsey Graham was hiding under a desk trying desperately to get Ivanka on the phone.

  227. 227.

    RandomMonster

    February 13, 2021 at 11:37 am

    @Damned_at_Random: Ignatius!

  228. 228.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:37 am

    @Spanky

    Calling what Arby’s dishes out roast beef is stretching the point from the get-go.

    “Use lots of horsey sauce. It makes up for the dearth of taste.”

    ;)

  229. 229.

    Leto

    February 13, 2021 at 11:37 am

    @Steeplejack:  Trumpov should’ve gone with the prestigious law firm of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe. I’ve heard nothing but great things about them from those guys.

  230. 230.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:37 am

    @NotMax:

    Hm. Have some port wine Dijon mustard lurking in the recesses of the fridge.

    Eat it!

  231. 231.

    JWR

    February 13, 2021 at 11:38 am

    Norm Ornstein now up on PBS.

  232. 232.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 11:38 am

    @Geminid: Narrator:  They did not get some money up front.

  233. 233.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:39 am

    Phil·a·del·phi·a law·yer

    noun
    INFORMAL

    1. a very shrewd lawyer who is expert in the exploitation of legal technicalities.

  234. 234.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:40 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I would love to see a listicle of all the code names the Secret Service has used for its subjects (clients?) through the years.

  235. 235.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:40 am

    @JWR:   I’d love to see Norm Ornstein.  Checking if PBS has a free online feed …

    does anyone know, while I go searching?

    Found it! https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics-features/trump-second-impeachment

  236. 236.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:40 am

    I am really curious about why Dump’s last minute temps installed at DoD and DoJ were not only unwilling to prepare adequately for violence and supporting the Capitol Police on January 6, but why they failed to respond quickly when it was clear that support was necessary. Considering how these people were installed just a week or two (if my memory isn’t failing me) before the insurrection, it seems pretty relevant.

    It sure looks like a potential conspiracy.

  237. 237.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:41 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    “This may be my last chance to share a dick pic and I don’t have Jared’s number on this phone. Please forward it to him. And cc your dad.”

    //

  238. 238.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:41 am

    @germy: But what about Phillydelphia lawyers?

  239. 239.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:41 am

    Wow, Ron Johnson picked a fight with Mitt Romney on the Senate floor just now after this witness vote, per pooler @jason_donner “Ron Johnson turned to Mitt Romney and was upset with him, even pointing at him once. Johnson was visibly upset….”— Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio) February 13, 2021

    “… They were going back and forth with Sullivan in the middle of them. I heard Johnson tell Romney ‘Blame you.’ Voices were definitely raised.”— Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio) February 13, 2021

    Republicans in disarray.

  240. 240.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:42 am

    Just Some Fuckhead:

    He was great as Jackie Treehorn in The Big Lebowski.

  241. 241.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:43 am

    @sdhays:

    I wonder if he’s on the phone with Trump right now.

  242. 242.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:43 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Remember when trump brought in Dale Bumpers?

    No, don’t remember that at all. And Bumpers died five years ago, more than a year before Trump even became Prez.

  243. 243.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 11:43 am

    @Steeplejack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Service_code_name

  244. 244.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:44 am

    @germy: I wonder why Johnson is so personally worked up over this. It suggests that he’s worried about something coming out that affects him personally. Or is it just “defense of the cult”?

  245. 245.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:45 am

    @Ken:   I loved that, in Carl Hiaasen’s recent parody, the unnamed president’s (Trump’s!!) secret service code name was “Mastodon.”

  246. 246.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:45 am

    @sdhays:

    Good question.

  247. 247.

    JMG

    February 13, 2021 at 11:48 am

    The Senate can and has during this trial conduct committee meetings in the morning so as to advance Biden nominees. It can by majority vote suspend the trial and appoint a committee to gather evidence to report back to the full Senate whereupon the trial can be reopened. And above all, the Senate was gonna go on Presidents Day recess next week anyhow, so no part of the Biden agenda would be delayed.

  248. 248.

    rikyrah

    February 13, 2021 at 11:49 am

    @NotMax:

    Try the pills

    And yellow mustard

  249. 249.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:49 am

    Also, there was that extraordinary letter in late December from all living previous Secretaries of Defense, including Darth Cheney, warning members of the military of their oaths. What were they hearing that compelled them to write and sign that letter?

  250. 250.

    Damned_at_Random

    February 13, 2021 at 11:49 am

    When does Jewish Sabbath end? Because IIRC, Shoen has no idea any of this is going on.

  251. 251.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:49 am

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Turns out it’s Cabernet. Grey Poupon Rouge.

    Tastes more like port to me, more rich and earthy than a Cab.

  252. 252.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 11:50 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: dammit!

    When Clinton brought in Dale Bumpers…..

    @sdhays:  he does seem to have gotten angrier and nuttier in the last year or so. I’d like to think it’s those fabled “internal polls”

  253. 253.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 11:50 am

    @germy: @sdhays: Further down that twitter thread:

    SenRonJohnson won’t discuss what he said to @MittRomney on the floor after Romney voted for witnesses. “That’s grotesque you guys are recording this,” Johnson complained.

    “Grotesque.”  Definitely sounds like there’s something he doesn’t want a matter of public record.

  254. 254.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:50 am

  255. 255.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:50 am

    @sdhays:   Calling Dick Cheney, in support of the Democrats.  That could be rich.

  256. 256.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 11:51 am

    @Steeplejack:

    the Tappet Brothers on Car Talk

    I miss that program so hard. Saturday mornings have never been the same since Tom died and the show ended. (Yes, I know there are archives. Not the same. It was part of the weekend ritual, and now it’s not.)

  257. 257.

    germy

    February 13, 2021 at 11:52 am

    @Ken:

    Republicans are getting hot under the collar.

    Jason Miller is walking around with a witness list that says WITNESS LIST 301 (SO FAR) pic.twitter.com/c2lObyNtrz— Katherine Faulders (@KFaulders) February 13, 202

    – Impeachment managers Ted Lieu and Joaquin Castro

    – Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris

    – Mazie Hirono

    – Elizabeth Warren

    – Ayanna Pressley

    – Chuck Schumer

    – Maxine Waters

    (Miller’s waving the list around for reporters to see.  He’s trolling, as usual)

  258. 258.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:52 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s one of those Republican Senators who spent July 4 in, was it 2018?, in Moscow. I always try to keep that context when thinking about Senator Johnson. And Rand too.

  259. 259.

    Geminid

    February 13, 2021 at 11:52 am

    @Damned_at_Random: I think the Sabbath goes from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. At least that’s how Seventh Day Adventists do it.

  260. 260.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:53 am

    @sdhays:

    It also makes you wonder about Bill Barr resigning in December rather than serving out the final month.

  261. 261.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 11:53 am

    @NotMax: Just to clarify, are you putting the mustard on bread or a cracker, or just eating spoonfuls out of the jar?

  262. 262.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 11:53 am

    From WaPost website: heh heh.

    Graham’s post-election call with Ga. secretary of state to be scrutinized in probe, person familiar with inquiry says

    Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) is serving as a juror in former president Donald Trump’s impeachment trial and is advising his defense.

  263. 263.

    JPL

    February 13, 2021 at 11:53 am

    Apparently, I chose the wrong time to turn off the TV.   Has trump fired his lawyers yet?

  264. 264.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:54 am

    I really think Ivanka is missing an opportunity by not starting a Twitter account called “Stupid Things My Dad Says”.

  265. 265.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:54 am

    @rikyrah

    Downed a teaspoonful. Not noticeable change except now I want pastrami.

    ;)

  266. 266.

    Jeffro

    February 13, 2021 at 11:55 am

    @Leto: ha!

    I was wondering when that particular firm was going to make an appearance in one of these here impeachment threads  ;)

  267. 267.

    catatonia

    February 13, 2021 at 11:55 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I listened to it just for the Randy Newman lead-in music from “Land of Dreams.” But, yeah, that was a great show.

  268. 268.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 11:56 am

    @Ken

    As with my martinis, straight up.

  269. 269.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 11:56 am

    @Ken:

    Thanks. I didn’t know this:

    The Secret Service does not choose these names, however. The White House Communications Agency maintains a list that candidates choose from, often choosing ones that resonate with them personally.

  270. 270.

    Ksmiami

    February 13, 2021 at 11:56 am

    @Elizabelle: villago delenda est

  271. 271.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 11:57 am

    Shorter Republicans: Nancy Pelosi didn’t save us from Trump’s attack on us.

  272. 272.

    dmsilev

    February 13, 2021 at 11:57 am

    @JPL: Has he paid his lawyers anything yet? If not (by far the likeliest answer), could they really be said to be working for him?

  273. 273.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:58 am

    @Steeplejack: Yes. Barr should be interviewed as well.

    There was a whole lot of dark shit going on in December inside the administration. Bill Kristol was freaking out over what he was hearing. He got the timing wrong, but what was he hearing and who was it from?

  274. 274.

    Amir Khalid

    February 13, 2021 at 11:59 am

    @Geminid: ​
     That’s my understanding too. Can any Jewish jackals confirm?

  275. 275.

    sdhays

    February 13, 2021 at 11:59 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Until mid-January, that was simply “@realDonaldTrump”.

  276. 276.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Wikipedia to the rescue!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Service_code_name

  277. 277.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I miss that program so hard. Saturday mornings have never been the same since Tom died and the show ended. (Yes, I know there are archives. Not the same. It was part of the weekend ritual, and now it’s not.)

    me too. I remember a friend describing it to me (it’s about cars, but it’s not really, it’s these two brothers…) and thinking, Why would I want to listen to that? I can’t remember how or why I started, but I got hooked, and I miss it

    ETA: On topic: the Senate votes again on a list of witnesses, no? Do they really think they want to back Elder Romney into a corner, now that the ghost of George seems to have finally paid him that midnight visit?

  278. 278.

    Tazj

    February 13, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    @germy: ?You love to see it.

    I can’t believe I actually agree with Chuck Todd today. Stephanie Rhule has been playing the devil’s advocate on MSNBC wondering if calling witnesses will backfire on Democrats because it will interfere COVID relief. Todd said something about the fact that the media has conditioned the public into having a short attention span, which I think was an argument in favor of lengthening the impeachment trial.

    Ted Cruz now wants to call Pelosi as a witness.

  279. 279.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 13, 2021 at 12:01 pm

    @Baud:  That is oneof the problems with being pre-disappointed. Sometimes people disappoint your disappointment.

  280. 280.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 12:01 pm

    @Elizabelle: I don’t have a WaPo account.  Is that inquiry the Senate impeachment trial, or the Georgia DA who’s considering charging Trump (and Graham?) with violating election-tampering law?

  281. 281.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 12:02 pm

    @sdhays: Right, but now it would have a snappy millennial feel to it.

  282. 282.

    Betty Cracker

    February 13, 2021 at 12:02 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Heh heh. I’ve missed you. :)

  283. 283.

    patrick II

    February 13, 2021 at 12:03 pm

    @Ken: ​

    I think you can ask Ollie North and why he never went to jail if you want to know about Congressional immunity.

  284. 284.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 12:04 pm

    @Geminid

    Mmm. Cholent.

    ;)

  285. 285.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 12:04 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I’m not Jewish, but yes, Shabbat is from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

  286. 286.

    pajaro

    February 13, 2021 at 12:05 pm

    IMO, this is about yesterday and last night, not McConnell’s statement. Yesterday, Collins and Murkowski asked Trump’s lawyers for specific information on what he was up to during the riot. The lawayer said there was no time for an investigation, which is kind of funny given who their client is. Anyways, it’s at least possible that they really want more information about what Trump was up to, in order to justify their possible vote to convict. Then, last night, a Republican Congresswoman drops the statement about the call and says she’s happy to go public. I know it’s really contrarian to be non-cynical, but I think it’s a legitimate possibility that there are people in Congress who want to supplement the record that’s there, and I believe it’s that expression of interest that the managers are responding to.

  287. 287.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 12:07 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Same. Here’s a callback to the episode I mentioned. Good to hear their voices again.​

  288. 288.

    Elizabelle

    February 13, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    @Ken:  I will read the story now and put up some excerpts.

  289. 289.

    Ken

    February 13, 2021 at 12:09 pm

    @NotMax: Wait, you’re making port wine mustard martinis now?  Sounds like a Chopped episode gone horribly wrong

    (Cue six jackals pondering, “Hmm, port wine mustard martini….”)

  290. 290.

    WaterGirl

    February 13, 2021 at 12:13 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I went back and added an edit to your comment   for clarity.  I can remove that if you want.

  291. 291.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 12:14 pm

    @Jeffro:

    I think it’s “Cheatham.” He hates when people misspell it. Gives the wrong impression.

  292. 292.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 12:16 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Thanks.

  293. 293.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 12:16 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Those contagious laughs!

  294. 294.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 12:18 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Thanks, hope that means he’ll disappear after sundown tonight.

  295. 295.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 13, 2021 at 12:18 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Thanks. Would have done the same if the edit window hadn’t already closed.

  296. 296.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    February 13, 2021 at 12:21 pm

    What I can’t figure is why Graham switched from nay to yea on the witness vote? How the heck does that benefit him?

    Also flashing back to De Palma’s “The Untouchables”, specifically the bit where the judge ordered the bailiff to swap the juries on Al Capone. I know, never happened, would have been utterly illegal, yada yada, but it gave that same sort of shifting-foundations, the-fix-was-in-but-now-it-isn’t vibe.

  297. 297.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 12:22 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    And yet, how lovely is it that we not being shrieked at on Twitter?

  298. 298.

    WaterGirl

    February 13, 2021 at 12:23 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Sometimes we have what feels like 50 people correcting the same error, so I was kind of hoping to forestall that.  :-)

  299. 299.

    stinger

    February 13, 2021 at 12:23 pm

    @Elizabelle: “He’s the one who forgot to order the beef.”

    Mmmm, David Soul. (I’m assuming that’s an UNSUB reference.)

  300. 300.

    citizen dave

    February 13, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    @Tazj: “Ted Cruz now wants to call Pelosi as a witness.”

    Ted Cruz again proves his utter stupidity.  Just to remind him, this picture: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story-photo-pelosi-trump-angry-white-house-meeting/story?id=66350339

    We received this photo in a fundraiser mailing, and it has been on our refrigerator ever since.

  301. 301.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 13, 2021 at 12:27 pm

    @citizen dave: I suspect Ted is as sincere in his desire to call Nancy Pelosi as he was when he said he would argue trump’s “case”– that assemblage of delusions– before the Supreme Court. He’s confident he’ll never catch that car, but if he barks the words Nancy Pelosi loud and long enough, he’ll be able to capture the trump base and ride it to the White House (his own delusion).

  302. 302.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 12:28 pm

    @Ken

    Is there any Chopped episode which isn’t horribly wrong?

    “It’s a red licorice-squid-egg white-peanut butter-zweiback paté.”

    Death rattle of cuisine. No coincidence the chefs and the baskets are all decked out in black.

  303. 303.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 12:30 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’m not an observant Jew, but I’m about to snack on a hamentashen, so I am an authentic Jew. Yes Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is the Sabbath.

  304. 304.

    Ivan X

    February 13, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    @Geminid: Occasionally observant Jew here. Close to correct. It’s a few minutes before sunset to being able to see three stars in the sky the next night. In practice that means 25 hours following sunset. Of course, not everyone observes equally, and many will choose to cut it a little short.

  305. 305.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 12:33 pm

    @debbie

    Prune, apricot or poppy seed paste?

    Inquiring minds….

  306. 306.

    Brachiator

    February 13, 2021 at 12:35 pm

    @NotMax:

    As mentioned downstairs, nonfeasance of office.

    I am not a lawyer and do not pretend to be one for purposes of the Internet, but this does not seem quite right. I like this example.

    However, if the victim is drowning in a public pool and the bystander is a lifeguard employed by the city, and if the lifeguard does not act to help, she may be held liable for the drowning because the lifeguard’s employment places her in a relationship with swimmers in the pool. Because of this relationship, the lifeguard owes a duty to take affirmative steps to prevent harm to the swimmers.

    What is it when the lifeguard deliberately pushes a non-swimmer into the water, refuses to help, and interferes with other lifeguards attempting a rescue?​

  307. 307.

    Geminid

    February 13, 2021 at 12:40 pm

    @Ivan X: Interesting. Thanks.

  308. 308.

    debbie

    February 13, 2021 at 12:40 pm

    @NotMax:

    Poppyseed, indubitably!

  309. 309.

    Brachiator

    February 13, 2021 at 12:40 pm

    @WaterGirl: ​
     

    You may know this already, but there is comment box weirdness with Firefox 85.0.2

    For example, I wanted to update a comment, and nothing showed in the box at all until I switched to text.

    Problems creating this reply as well.

    Cheers.

  310. 310.

    Amir Khalid

    February 13, 2021 at 12:42 pm

    @Brachiator: ​
     It’s been like this for the past couple of weeks.

  311. 311.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 12:43 pm

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: What I can’t figure is why Graham switched from nay to yea on the witness vote? How the heck does that benefit him?

    He was just being dramatic. He was saying, “Oh girl, if you want witnesses, I will bring you witnesses!” It’s important to understand most of Lindsey’s schtick is just performance. In a meritocracy, Lindsey would live at home with his mom, unemployed, and perform as Eddie The Motorcycle Guy at the weekend Rocky Horror Picture Show.

  312. 312.

    Steeplejack

    February 13, 2021 at 12:44 pm

    @Brachiator:

    It has been a known thing for a while.

    And I just answered you with Firefox 85.0.2 and the edit box worked fine. But it has been flaky on and off this morning. Can’t pin down a cause.

  313. 313.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 12:45 pm

    @Brachiator: Does Nancy Pelosi own the pool? Why did she hire homicidal lifeguards?

  314. 314.

    WaterGirl

    February 13, 2021 at 12:47 pm

    @Brachiator: Yeah.  I knew it was a problem with 85.0, then 85.01 and then yesterday someone said it is still a problem with 85.02.

    John said we would wait until Valentine’s Day in the hopes that a Firefox update would resolve the issue.  If not, on 2/15 I will contact the developers.

    Not looking good for Firefox to come through by end of day on 2/14.

    I will look for someone to let me know the score on 2/15.

  315. 315.

    J R in WV

    February 13, 2021 at 12:48 pm

    @Brachiator: 

    What is it when the lifeguard deliberately pushes a non-swimmer into the water, refuses to help, and interferes with other lifeguards attempting a rescue?

    Murder. That’s what those people who mobbed into the Capitol deserve, they collectively killed 5 or 6 people in the commission of a felony.

  316. 316.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 13, 2021 at 12:52 pm

    @Ken: No, a martini contains gin and a tiny amount of vermouth.  Anything else is simply a drink served in a martini glass.

  317. 317.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 12:57 pm

    @WaterGirl

    If not, on 2/15 I will contact the developers.

    Holiday.

    Will mention again it’s not something for Firefox to “fix.” Firefox isn’t breaking the site, the site’s coding is breaking Firefox. (And also, as some have reported in individual cases, Chrome.)

  318. 318.

    Dan B

    February 13, 2021 at 12:57 pm

    @pajaro: Several of Rep. Herrera-Buetler’s constituents point out that her district is turning blue as the Vancouver, WA suburbs grow.  Vancouver, USA is a suburb of Portland for the most part.  She may be positioning herself as the moderate.  At the same time many of the white terrorists call the area home base.

    I believe she fits into Adam’s “delegate” category.  She may only be interested in working for her constituents but there is the possibility as a woman in congress she felt the threat of the mob quite keenly.

  319. 319.

    Dan B

    February 13, 2021 at 1:02 pm

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: Graham’s change to Aye means he has the ability to vote against witnesses if it comes to a vote in the future.  It may be he gets the opportunity to vote against any and all witnesses.

    Emperor Tang 45 will probably not understand.  I’m rooting for a beat down.

  320. 320.

    WaterGirl

    February 13, 2021 at 1:03 pm

    @NotMax: You can mention whatever you want, but a Firefox change caused the break.  The code for the site was there and functioning for well over a year before Firefox came out with their new version.

    It is not unreasonable to wait and see if an update from 85.0 would un-do whatever change they had made that caused the break.

  321. 321.

    WaterGirl

    February 13, 2021 at 1:04 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: The decision NOT to call witnesses makes no sense to me – wondering if, given the information that came out last night, you have thoughts on why they would have decided that and whether you think that was a good decision or not.

  322. 322.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 13, 2021 at 1:15 pm

    @WaterGirl: I’ll be honest.  I am not watching or paying really close attention.  I think the end result is a foregone conclusion. Then again, I am watching England vs Italy in a Six Nations rugby match, and, if that result isn’t a foregone conclusion, I don’t know what is.​
    ​
    ​

  323. 323.

    NotMax

    February 13, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    @WaterGirl

    Firefox did not cause the flaw, it revealed it.

    There hasn’t been a massive surge in reports of the same behavior happening on sites across the width and breadth of the web.

  324. 324.

    dnfree

    February 13, 2021 at 1:27 pm

    @Ken: often in a governing body, if one side loses a member of that side will change their vote to the winning side, expressly because if the body (city council etc.) is following Robert’s Rules, only members of the winning side can make certain motions. I don’t know if the senate follows those rules or similar, but a switch by one member of the losing side can be tactical, not a change of heart.

  325. 325.

    There go two miscreants

    February 13, 2021 at 2:54 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: ​
      YES, seconding the mustard rec for leg cramps. Def works for me.

  326. 326.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    February 13, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    @There go two miscreants:  Right? It’s totally bizarre and somewhat unscientific but damned if it doesn’t work.

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