Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment / Impeach the Motherfucker! / Impeachment Open Thread: Day Five

Reader Interactions

326Comments

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    I hope there is a hell deep enough for van Vile.

    Hell certainly exists when you are in his presence. Dreadful little man. Liar, defending the indefensible.

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    Heh heh.  Ven der Veen is a personal injury lawyer.

    Car crashes, motorcycle and bike accidents, dog bites.

  9. 9.

    Leto

    “I don’t know why you’re laughing” – Van der Pump

    Because you’re a joke, and everyone sees/knows it. Can only hope his practice goes down the shitter.

  10. 10.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @stinger: Van Der Ween’s presentation is literally manifested by the old chestnut, “If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.”

  15. 15.

    Nicole

    Hooray!  The thought of forthcoming duck photos makes me happy.

    Today is the first day I’ll be able to watch any of it.  I’ve been alternating scrolling on Twitter between the proceedings and the Joss Whedon stuff all week.  Nice to finally see some of the proceedings live, even though I’m angry that the outcome is already decided.  The House was still right to pursue it.

  17. 17.

    Leto

    @Elizabelle: I guess that explains all the dumb theatrics he’s doing right now? Again striking how one side is basically calm, cool, collected, and the other is raving mad. I hope we can find out where Van der got his acting degree.

  19. 19.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @germy: I’m cool with Trump’s personal injury attorney pissing off 50 Republican senators who want this over with stat.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    One of Trump’s lawyers sitting at the table unmasked. He’s consistently done that and the presiding officer ought to cite him and rule he leave the chamber if he will not comply.

  28. 28.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    How many untold hours have been wasted doing voice vote calls when they could put electronics in and vote simultaneously in milliseconds.

  29. 29.

    germy

    @NotMax:

    It’s always easy to spot the Republicans.  They’re the maskless ones, or the ones with their noses sticking out over their masks.

  34. 34.

    M31

    C-span changed its chyron from “vote on whether to call witnesses” to “vote on whether to subpoena witnesses”

    mmmmm subpoenas

  38. 38.

    NotMax

    @Just Some Fuckhead

    Much prefer it this way as one can immediately put together a name with a vote. An electronic board with 100 names on it not nearly as directly communicative, and probably wouldn’t be on screen long enough to thoroughly scan at home.

  41. 41.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Andrew Solender @AndrewSolender · 10m
    van der Veen insists on taking Pelosi and Harris’ depositions, adding “not by zoom. In person, in my office in Philadelphia,” prompting laughter from senators. “I don’t know why you’re laughting,” he says

    did this look as bad on TeeVee as it does on twitter?

  45. 45.

    Elizabelle

    This is going to go on a few more days.

    How delightful for Democrats; less so for Republicans.  And the press, tracking down everything they can about the McCarthy-Trump call, which van der Vile (I think) says did not happen, which means it did.

  47. 47.

    Damned_at_Random

    So TaMara is patient 0 for the 2021 Duck Flu.

    Does Trumps defense expect him to pay for 100 depositions in Philadelphia? Or is Van Der Whatever doing one of those personal injury type “you only pay if we win” arrangements?

  51. 51.

    debbie

    @Elizabelle:

    He’s not even that. He’s an ambulance chaser.

    55 to 45 is decent, but keep this in mind, you smug shits so sure of the outcome: “Alexander Butterfield, bitchez.”

  53. 53.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @NotMax: Have you tried mustard for your leg cramps?  I get terrible muscle spasms from one of my medications, think it’s the glipizide, and mustard stops the cramps immediately, miraculously.

  65. 65.

    artem1s

    @germy:

    yep they will in the hopes of creating impeachment fatigue.  probably call Hillary just so the MAGAts can revel in some good old CDS. for sue they are going to try to call Hunter Biden.  His Excellency will insist on it

    But the longer they keep it up the bigger their bill is going to be and the more $ they lose when His Excellency stiffs them. And they know it. They are visibly losing steam and the Dems are maintaining the right tone and energy. Not sure that tactic will work the way they think it will

  68. 68.

    dmsilev

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Graham made some vague threats about “if you call witnesses, so will we and you’ll be sorry” a week or so ago. I think mostly bluster, plus a bit of what you suggest of some “it was antifa!” squid-ink.

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

    So this was not a motion to call witnesses but to allow debate on the question of calling witnesses.

    More fun coming!

  74. 74.

    Ken

    IIUC, impeachment isn’t a trial in either the civil or criminal sense.  So, will witnesses be sworn in?  Will they be able to take the fifth? Can the Senate grant immunity in exchange for testimony?

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    Subpoena Barr. To under oath affirm he told Dolt 45 what he was doing was “bullshit” and why it was.

  76. 76.

    H.E.Wolf

    I admire many of the Senators on the Democratic side of the aisle.

    As we all know, conflating Democrats and Republicans into a single disparaged group, when the two groups behave so differently, plays right into the hands of people who know how to exploit that mistake.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    @artem1s:

    A lot of GOP strategy involves outlasting our side, because their base only cares about hating us, while our base wants things accomplished.  It’s a strategy we need to learn to defeat.

  79. 79.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Pat Leahy up there struggling to express a coherent thought isn’t a good look for our gerontocracy.

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    I’ve thought the press is way too quick in assuring us the trial will go as their Republican sources tell us.

    Do wonder if the GOP will drag their witnesses out a lot, to put a delay in confirming Biden appointees.  As in Merrick Garland.  To see.

    The Democrats can call some very good ones, and the Trump counsel has proved so inadequate so far they could score more “own goals” with their own witnesses.

    It is shameful to have the vast majority of Republicans play-acting for Fox News and der Trump.  I hope it bites them so hard, and sooner rather than later.  They, and a lot of the press, are lagging indicators and don’t live in the real world.

  81. 81.

    TS (the original)

    @germy:  MSNBC saying it will delay senate business, could go on for weeks, stopping debate on covid bill etc etc etc.

    I clicked off.

  83. 83.

    Leto

    @Ken: here’s a partial primer (read the thread):

    Kevin M. Kruse@KevinMKruse

    Worth repeating.

    The Senate impeachment trials of both Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton featured new testimony that the House had not relied upon when it passed their Articles of Impeachment.

    You can argue things should be different now, but that’s actually how it worked before.

  84. 84.

    JMG

    I was totally wrong in the earlier thread and damn glad of it. IMO Mitch played himself by announcing his acquittal vote before the witness motion. Made Schumer and other Dems mad enough to want to rub his nose in the case as long as they possibly can.

  85. 85.

    Elizabelle

    @germy:   I don’t know why the press was so sure this was going to wrap up today.  That is from the Republicans, I am sure.

    Lazy press corpse.

  89. 89.

    Immanentize

    @Leto: That is actually how it is supposed to work as per the procedures for this trial — the question of further witnesses was to be debated AFTER the presentation of evidence and arguments.

  95. 95.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Which is more surprising?

    ☑️ I caved, the ducks are in the house.

    -or-

    ☑️ Van “Der Ball-Peen” Veen is starting with his usual contempt.

  96. 96.

    Elizabelle

    @zhena gogolia:   I know.  Wired for Republicans.

    Or maybe Democrats were playing their cards close to the chest?

    I truly do not see the downside to witnesses, even realizing the GOP will try to put up some ridiculous ones.

    Make a record for history.  Make this hurt really, really bad for the GOP who want to convict and speed on to other obstruction.  Make it a hard vote for them.

  97. 97.

    Ken

    @germy: Lindsey just changed his vote to “yes”

    Who’d voted just before?  That might help us figure out who he’s attached himself to, lamprey-like.  (Or wants to attach to.)

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    What’s the orange moron’s preferred, non-Twitter, method of communication these days?

    ‘Cause he sure as heck is going to melt down publicly later today, and I (god help me) want to hear/see/read it.

    I want him running scared and publicly acting out…you know, like a good, non-inciting Mr. Innocent kind of guy would do.

    LOL

  102. 102.

    zhena gogolia

    @Elizabelle:

    I mean, Imm says it was just a vote to debate whether or not to call witnesses. But everything I’m seeing, including WaPo, is saying it was a vote to call witnesses. So I’m confused.

    ETA: And NYT:
    Senate Votes to Hear Witnesses,

  103. 103.

    Ken

    @SiubhanDuinne: They are equally unsurprising.  The ducks are in the house because you are a decent person; Veen is spewing because he is the diametrical opposite of decent.

  104. 104.

    Another Scott

    @TS (the original):  Yeah.  Reporters live on Twitter but apparently don’t read people who know what they are tweeting about…

    Calling witnesses doesn't *have* to delay other legislative business. Rule XI allows the Senate to appoint a committee to hear testimony and report back to the full Senate. Witnesses would be under oath, there'd be a full record, and the Senate could carry on in the meantime. pic.twitter.com/DtBGePEwPQ— Andrew Crespo (@AndrewMCrespo) February 13, 2021

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  105. 105.

    dmsilev

    @Jeffro:

    What’s the orange moron’s preferred, non-Twitter, method of communication these days?

    Issuing statements on “Office of the 45th President” letterhead, complete with a version of the seal that looks like it was drawn in MS Paint.

  108. 108.

    Jeffro

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

     

    @Steeplejack:

    Sure would be nice if, post the 2022 elections, the extremely elder leadership of the Dems held a news conference and talked about the need to hand over the reins…and then did so.  Sort of their own Captain America-hands-over-the-shield-to-the-Falcon moment.

    Also, I would like a pony for Christmas, I know.  But still.

  109. 109.

    M31

    my prediction:

    1. GQPers try to make impeachment stall Joe Biden’s agenda
    2. forcing the elimination of the filibuster (to pass the COVID-Relief and West Virginia Money Spigot Bill)
    3. Trump’s lawyers quit because they haven’t been paid
  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @dmsilev: sigh

    I was hoping for something really stupid on video.  But if a rambling, offensive, misspelled memo is all we’re gonna get…I’ll take it.

  113. 113.

    Ken

    @Elizabelle: Trump counsel has proved so inadequate so far they could score more “own goals” with their own witnesses.

    That is certainly my expectation.  Remember, Trump thinks it’s a good thing that his followers will get up there and say “The election was stolen and only violent action, as ordered by our commander-in-chief for life Donald Trump, will save the day!”

  115. 115.

    Immanentize

    @zhena gogolia: The fact that the motion passed means — in most likelihood — that witnesses will be called.  BUT, there is no provision or vote or agreement regarding how many or under what circumstances.  That is why it was a vote to debate the issuing of subpoenas.  K?

  116. 116.

    Elizabelle

    @zhena gogolia:   I never heard what the vote was for, to begin with.

    Anyway, I never believed this thing would wrap today.  Which is nothing but a guess.

    I think events are building the Democrats’ way, outside the Senate chamber.  More evidence.  More stories will come out.

    C-Span said this was a vote for calling witnesses.

    Also that “Cornyn, Thune and Portman are huddling” in Thune’s office right now.

    Maybe they have their fingers out the window, to take the temperature.

  120. 120.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeffro:   Excluding Nancy Smash!  She gets to stay as long as she wants.  Love her.

    Agree, Leahey seems very frail.  Bad decision by him to preside.

  121. 121.

    MattF

    @Ken: Right. Trump’s ‘theory’ for Jan. 6 is that he was doing the correct thing. He’s never moved from that position.

  122. 122.

    TS (the original)

    @Another Scott:

    Thanks. I think the media pundits hear many leaks from republicans but are owed no favors by democrats who seem able to not leak information when talking to the press.

  123. 123.

    Immanentize

    @zhena gogolia: The motion was whether to debate the issuing of subpoenas.  It was not a motion to call witnesses.

    Issuing subpoenas will certainly lead to calling witnesses.  Or force McConnell to whip 17 senators to vote for conviction.

  126. 126.

    JMG

    The Senate is both judge and jury in impeachment trials, so every motion on witnesses is subject to a vote. A reporter, forget who, on Twitter said they should just have Romney, Collins, Sasse and Murkowski write up a list of witnesses they’ll vote to hear and save some time.

  127. 127.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jeffro:

    the extremely elder leadership of the Dems held a news conference

    “extremely elderly”? Schumer and Murray are both 70, Durbin is 76 and doesn’t seem to be losing it to my eye. I wouldn’t call any of them extremely elderly.

  128. 128.

    germy

    Lindsey thinks it's a big threat to call Pelosi. But not only doesn't she help him in the way Fox News has led him to believe she will, but she, too, will be able to talk about calls that went unheeded.

    — emptywheel (@emptywheel) February 13, 2021

  130. 130.

    Percysowner

    @germy:

     

    I figured Lindsey wants to subpoena HRC. Hell, maybe even Obama.

    I’m not sure Lindsey is stupid enough to call Hillary “I withstood 11 hours of your stupid questions and didn’t break a sweat AND I have OPINIONS I’d like to share” Clinton to testify.

    I do think he wants to call Hunter Biden and then do his level best to drive him out of recovery and back to using drugs. Because Lindsey is, like most Republican Senators, scum.

  132. 132.

    Steeplejack

    @Another Scott:

    Is that right? Claire McCaskill said on MSNBC a few minutes ago that the Senate cannot conduct other business while an impeachment trial is on. Can they adjourn it or call a recess while they interview witnesses? And, even if they do, does that allow other business to go forward? The whole situation is murky, to say the least.

  133. 133.

    Elizabelle

    @germy:   I remember the stories about Nancy Pelosi and others calling from their more secure locations, once they’d been rushed to safety, pleading and pleading for National Guard backup.

    Pelosi called Governor Ralph Northam of Virginia directly, on his personal cell phone.  Steney Hoyer was calling Maryland Governor Larry Hogan pleading for that state’s National Guard.

    Nancy P told Northam she could hear glass breaking.

    Bring them on.

    Republicans been drinking their fake ass KoolAid too long.

  134. 134.

    germy

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I remember the old joke:

    A man gets on a train with his little boy, and gives the conductor only one ticket. ‘How old’s your kid?’ the conductor says, and the father says, ‘He’s four years old.’ ‘He looks at least twelve to me,’ says the conductor. And the father says, ‘Can I help it if he worries?’

  135. 135.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle: It was not entirely his decision.  He is the President Pro Tempore of the Senate as the longest serving Dem. Senator (And Senator, period, I believe, making him also the Senate’s “Dean”).

    The President Pro Tem serves when the Vice President does not.  Or, in cases of impeachment, when the Chief Justice does not.

  142. 142.

    Leto

    @Elizabelle:

    Maybe they have their fingers out the window, to take the temperature.

    “Do you think they’re hiring at the Federalist Society? Heritage Foundation? Think they’ll take us by Monday morning?”

  143. 143.

    NotMax

    Also subpoena the Secret Service detail on duty at the White House as to what commnication, and when, was made to Dolt 45 on January 6.

    @Immanentize

    “If the Democrats want to play that game, we’ll call hundreds of witnesses.”

    “Ah, fight like hell, huh?”

    //

  144. 144.

    Steeplejack

    I am now regretting my decision to watch the impeachment trial because the clients on Love It or List It were more dickish and entitled than usual.

  145. 145.

    M31

    cSpan replaying the opening statements today — Raskin was cool and factual and now Trump’s lawyer is screaming and pounding things

    ‘when you don’t have the facts or the law, pound your peen’ or something

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    @MattF: Pelosi is not the greatest public speaker, but she is one of the greatest political leaders of our time, I believe.  Witnesses will not be in the well of the Senate.  They will be recorded.  No Perry Mason moment for Graham.

  147. 147.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MattF:

    If Graham is actually underestimating Pelosi, he’s in big trouble.

    also…. has he been watching trump’s lawyers? Does he think he’s gonna break Nancy with a devastatingly worded question from his desk handed down to VanderVeen?

    my recollection of the Clinton trial is that Monica Lewinsky was cool and poised and made the House managers deposing her look like stammering old men. I don’t think Lindsey was in on that— the name Steve Chabot floats down from the attic of my brain– his job was to crank up his accent and be the earnest young Southern lawyer, calling for the Senate to do it’s sad but necessary duty….

  150. 150.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Have you tried mustard for your leg cramps? I get terrible muscle spasms from one of my medications, think it’s the glipizide, and mustard stops the cramps immediately, miraculously.

    Do you eat the mustard, or rub it on the affected area, or lose it, or what?

  153. 153.

    germy

    Here’s the other problem @KFaulders and I are hearing – trouble in lawyer land. Remember this legal team was already fighting amongst themselves but they pulled it together for what they thought was one last day – now what happens is completely unclear.

    — John Santucci (@Santucci) February 13, 2021

  154. 154.

    Elizabelle

    Weird headline by the WaPost:  Senate to call witnesses, delaying verdict

    Well.  The trial is incomplete, is it not?  Even if the verdict is expected.  But events can change.

  159. 159.

    debbie

    @germy:

    When was Van Der Whatever added to the team? I’m surprised he didn’t have a turn to speak along with Castor and Schoen that first day.

  161. 161.

    Elizabelle

    @germy:  I prefer CBS, with extending trial vs. “delaying verdict.”

    Just a weird construct there.  “We don’t have to get it right, we just have to get it fast!”

  163. 163.

    Ken

    @Immanentize: Or, in cases of impeachment, when the Chief Justice does not.

    Really, really hoping someone manages to slip in “Even John Roberts, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, says that Donald Trump is no longer president.” Just to drive you-know-who’s blood pressure up.

  164. 164.

    SiubhanDuinne

    MSNBC saying they caught up with J. Castro in the hall just now, asked him “How many witnesses are you going to call?” He said, “Lots.”

    Hmmmm.

    edit: CASTOR, Bruce Castor, not Castro.

  165. 165.

    M31

    lol Van der Peen is hilarious with the sound off, he’s like a histrionic coach on the sidelines miming to the refs WE WUZ ROBBED

    and about as credible

  169. 169.

    germy

    @debbie:

    I honestly don’t know.  I think one of Trump’s lawyers couldn’t work on a Saturday.  And I read that one of the lawyers threatened to quit Thursday night, until Trump called him to soothe his ruffled feathers.

  171. 171.

    Immanentize

    @Ken: Sadly, such a statement would probably increase the Q targets on Robert’s back.  Sad/not sad?  Politically those guys would be better humans if they felt the heat they hoisted on others.

  172. 172.

    Betty Cracker

    From CNN (20 mins ago)

    People on former President Trump’s impeachment team are surprised by the turn of events this morning. Some who have been helping the team had been making travel plans to leave on Monday, according to a source familiar.

    As of 9 a.m. ET this morning the team was under the impression there would be no witnesses. Now, the source groaned “it will never end.”

    Another source confirmed they’re shocked by this development. While they had floated having a list of witnesses, they hadn’t prepared a real list, the source said. They’re huddling now on the phone with other aides about how to proceed.

    Ha. Dems called their bluff.

    PS: I want the trial to last forever. I think it’s the only thing keeping Trump’s big fat mouth shut (aside from the social media ban).

  173. 173.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    MSNBC saying they caught up with J. Castro in the hall just now, asked him “How many witnesses are you going to call?” He said, “Lots.”

    CORRECTION via MSNBC:

    Not Castro, as first reported. CASTOR, Bruce Castor.

    (I knew those two names would trip someone up sooner or later.)

  175. 175.

    JWR

    Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler was on Firing Line last night, taped earlier than what’s happening right now, and from what little I saw, she struck me as a bog standard R, meaning an old-school, GWB type R, and not a Ted Cruz R, and so my fear that she may be some sort of Marjorie Taylor-Greene operative has eased.

    Ooo, Adam Schiff calling in to CBS.

  177. 177.

    Immanentize

    @SiubhanDuinne: I was thinking — I can’t imagine the House managers saying that.  Caster is going to quickly learn he is not in charge of the number of witnesses called.

  180. 180.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker: re: calling bluff.  Those digits railed against the House managers for not having witnesses.  They really can’t cry now that they are getting what they complained about.

    Due Process!

  181. 181.

    germy

    @JWR:

    She votes 95% of the time with Republicans.  Wanted to make Medicare a voucher system.  Opposes same sex marriage. Voted to repeal Obamacare.  Voted for Paul Ryan’s tax cuts.

    But the Q stuff is a bridge too far for her.

    This is why Schiff just called her a better potential witness than McCarthy.

  184. 184.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Immanentize: does the Senate still have to vote on the witnesses they’ll allow?

    I remember a reporter asking Nancy Pelosi if she was surprised by I forget what. She gave him that level stare for a couple of beats and then said, “I’m never surprised in this job.”

    I wonder if Mitch was surprised today.

  186. 186.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:

    Yesterday on MSNBC Nicolle Wallace, as a veteran of the Dubya White House, said that it is preposterous to believe that Trump didn’t know what was going on with Mike Pence. The Secret Service details are in constant communication with one another and with high government officials, e.g., Trump’s chief of staff. She gave examples: “All stations, Roadrunner [Dubya] is moving to [wherever].” And so forth. The Secret Service at the Capitol would have informed their counterparts at the White House, if only to alert them to be on the lookout for problems there.

  188. 188.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Chuck Todd is the most vapid political observer on the planet, even more than Luke Russert when they made him a politico on his 13th birthday in honor of his dead dad. In a meritocracy, Chuck Todd would be explaining to you why they ran out of roast beef on his Arby’s shift.

  192. 192.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    John Santucci  @Santucci · 22m
    Sources close to president Trump are floored by what just happened. “Stunned”. “Stupefied”. “Digesting this” are the words @KFaulders & me are hearing.

    I bet they’re praying he doesn’t get a bee in his bonnet about testifying. Or calling a press conference. Or making a phone call to an old friend, like Judge Box-O’Wine

  193. 193.

    Elizabelle

    An alert from the FTF NY Times, making it sound like only one witness.  I don’t know that I believe the only one at this juncture.  To see.

    BREAKING NEWS

    In an unexpected turn, the Senate voted to call witnesses in Donald Trump’s trial, delaying a verdict. Follow live updates and analysis.

    Saturday, February 13, 2021 10:40 AM EST

    The Senate approved delaying a final verdict in former President Trump’s impeachment trial so that Democrats could call a Republican congresswoman as a witness and subpoena her notes after she confirmed she was told that Mr. Trump had sided with the mob during as rioters were attacking the Capitol.

  196. 196.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    I think I recall that she plans to step down as Speaker/Leader after the 2022 elections. Haven’t heard that she intends to resign her House seat just yet. Happy to be corrected by someone who actually knows.

  197. 197.

    TriassicSands

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    They don’t want it over. The outcome is known no matter how many witnesses are called. Republicans want to call “100” witnesses in order to disrupt Biden’s agenda. Their goal is always obstructive and negative.

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    Katy Tur and Chuck Todd are reminding me of the Tappet Brothers on Car Talk once saying that sometimes two people can actually know less about a topic than one person.

  203. 203.

    germy

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Working fast food requires the ability to think on one’s feet, to juggle multiple responsibilities, and quickly deal with a variety of personalities. It’s not easy work, or dumb work.

    I think your analogy would work better if an Arby’s employee said “You’re looking for Chuck?  He was fired last week.”

  204. 204.

    NotMax

    @rikyrah

    Have had a problem with Gatorade since first it appeared. Knocks me out faster than listening to Ben Stein recite The Iliad.

    And not a good nor a restful sleep, more like blank unconsciousness.

  206. 206.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @germy: I literally said he ran out of roast beef in a roast beef restaurant to make that exact point. And don’t talk to me like I’m shitting on fast food employees. I’ve worked fast food. You need to apologize and then step down.

  208. 208.

    Brachiator

    @MattF:

    Raskin wants testimony about Trump-McCarthy argument

    We know for an absolute fact that Trump refused to directly lead the mob, and that he refused to call off the mob.

    We know for an absolute fact that the Republican leadership assumed that Trump was in control of the mob. We know for an absolute fact that Trump enjoyed this nasty bit of power.

    And yet, the Republicans may foolishly let Trump continue to be politically relevant. The man who didn’t care whether they lived or died.

  213. 213.

    Spanky

    1. 188.

      Just Some Fuckhead
      FEBRUARY 13, 2021 AT 11:23 AM

      Chuck Todd is the most vapid political observer on the planet, even more than Luke Russert when they made him a politico on his 13th birthday in honor of his dead dad. In a meritocracy, Chuck Todd would be explaining to you why they ran out of roast beef on his Arby’s shift.

      Reply

    2. 189.

      Baud
      FEBRUARY 13, 2021 AT 11:23 AM

      Man, Chuck Todd makes a decent point.

      I hate agreeing with him.

    OK, what the hell just happened?

  219. 219.

    JWR

    @germy: Oh wow, guess I shoulda watched more of the show. Either that, or update my definition of what a bog-standard R actually is. But she talked about lower taxes, personal freedumb, all that buzz word BS.

  220. 220.

    Delk

    Just woke up. Pondering whether to go back to bed. I’d play in the snow if I didn’t have the bone density of a man forty years my senior.

  222. 222.

    RandomMonster

    @Betty Cracker: PS: I want the trial to last forever. I think it’s the only thing keeping Trump’s big fat mouth shut (aside from the social media ban).

    I so agree! I don’t think the Republicans can pull any sympathy or goodwill from hearings, either.

  224. 224.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: The members of the defense team may need to move on to some paid work. Even if they got some money up front, from now on they probably are working pro-bonehead.

  225. 225.

    germy

    @JWR:

    She didn’t mention those details on the show.  She stuck with the “freedom” buzzwords

    I’d never heard of her before, so I check wikipedia last night during the show.

  226. 226.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I don’t really want them to subpoena him, but I hope somebody can work into their sworn testimony that Lindsey Graham was hiding under a desk trying desperately to get Ivanka on the phone.

  228. 228.

    NotMax

    @Spanky

    Calling what Arby’s dishes out roast beef is stretching the point from the get-go.

    “Use lots of horsey sauce. It makes up for the dearth of taste.”

    ;)

  229. 229.

    Leto

    @Steeplejack:  Trumpov should’ve gone with the prestigious law firm of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe. I’ve heard nothing but great things about them from those guys.

  233. 233.

    germy

    Phil·a·del·phi·a law·yer

    noun
    INFORMAL

    1. a very shrewd lawyer who is expert in the exploitation of legal technicalities.

  236. 236.

    sdhays

    I am really curious about why Dump’s last minute temps installed at DoD and DoJ were not only unwilling to prepare adequately for violence and supporting the Capitol Police on January 6, but why they failed to respond quickly when it was clear that support was necessary. Considering how these people were installed just a week or two (if my memory isn’t failing me) before the insurrection, it seems pretty relevant.

    It sure looks like a potential conspiracy.

  239. 239.

    germy

    Wow, Ron Johnson picked a fight with Mitt Romney on the Senate floor just now after this witness vote, per pooler @jason_donner “Ron Johnson turned to Mitt Romney and was upset with him, even pointing at him once. Johnson was visibly upset….”— Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio) February 13, 2021

    “… They were going back and forth with Sullivan in the middle of them. I heard Johnson tell Romney ‘Blame you.’ Voices were definitely raised.”— Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio) February 13, 2021

    Republicans in disarray.

  244. 244.

    sdhays

    @germy: I wonder why Johnson is so personally worked up over this. It suggests that he’s worried about something coming out that affects him personally. Or is it just “defense of the cult”?

  245. 245.

    Elizabelle

    @Ken:   I loved that, in Carl Hiaasen’s recent parody, the unnamed president’s (Trump’s!!) secret service code name was “Mastodon.”

  247. 247.

    JMG

    The Senate can and has during this trial conduct committee meetings in the morning so as to advance Biden nominees. It can by majority vote suspend the trial and appoint a committee to gather evidence to report back to the full Senate whereupon the trial can be reopened. And above all, the Senate was gonna go on Presidents Day recess next week anyhow, so no part of the Biden agenda would be delayed.

  249. 249.

    sdhays

    Also, there was that extraordinary letter in late December from all living previous Secretaries of Defense, including Darth Cheney, warning members of the military of their oaths. What were they hearing that compelled them to write and sign that letter?

  252. 252.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @SiubhanDuinne: dammit!

    When Clinton brought in Dale Bumpers…..

    @sdhays:  he does seem to have gotten angrier and nuttier in the last year or so. I’d like to think it’s those fabled “internal polls”

  253. 253.

    Ken

    @germy: @sdhays: Further down that twitter thread:

    SenRonJohnson won’t discuss what he said to @MittRomney on the floor after Romney voted for witnesses. “That’s grotesque you guys are recording this,” Johnson complained.

    “Grotesque.”  Definitely sounds like there’s something he doesn’t want a matter of public record.

  256. 256.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Steeplejack:

    the Tappet Brothers on Car Talk

    I miss that program so hard. Saturday mornings have never been the same since Tom died and the show ended. (Yes, I know there are archives. Not the same. It was part of the weekend ritual, and now it’s not.)

  257. 257.

    germy

    @Ken:

    Republicans are getting hot under the collar.

    Jason Miller is walking around with a witness list that says WITNESS LIST 301 (SO FAR) pic.twitter.com/c2lObyNtrz— Katherine Faulders (@KFaulders) February 13, 202

    – Impeachment managers Ted Lieu and Joaquin Castro

    – Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris

    – Mazie Hirono

    – Elizabeth Warren

    – Ayanna Pressley

    – Chuck Schumer

    – Maxine Waters

    (Miller’s waving the list around for reporters to see.  He’s trolling, as usual)

  264. 264.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    I really think Ivanka is missing an opportunity by not starting a Twitter account called “Stupid Things My Dad Says”.

  266. 266.

    Jeffro

    @Leto: ha!

    I was wondering when that particular firm was going to make an appearance in one of these here impeachment threads  ;)

  269. 269.

    Steeplejack

    @Ken:

    Thanks. I didn’t know this:

    The Secret Service does not choose these names, however. The White House Communications Agency maintains a list that candidates choose from, often choosing ones that resonate with them personally.

  272. 272.

    dmsilev

    @JPL: Has he paid his lawyers anything yet? If not (by far the likeliest answer), could they really be said to be working for him?

  273. 273.

    sdhays

    @Steeplejack: Yes. Barr should be interviewed as well.

    There was a whole lot of dark shit going on in December inside the administration. Bill Kristol was freaking out over what he was hearing. He got the timing wrong, but what was he hearing and who was it from?

  277. 277.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I miss that program so hard. Saturday mornings have never been the same since Tom died and the show ended. (Yes, I know there are archives. Not the same. It was part of the weekend ritual, and now it’s not.)

    me too. I remember a friend describing it to me (it’s about cars, but it’s not really, it’s these two brothers…) and thinking, Why would I want to listen to that? I can’t remember how or why I started, but I got hooked, and I miss it

    ETA: On topic: the Senate votes again on a list of witnesses, no? Do they really think they want to back Elder Romney into a corner, now that the ghost of George seems to have finally paid him that midnight visit?

  278. 278.

    Tazj

    @germy: ?You love to see it.

    I can’t believe I actually agree with Chuck Todd today. Stephanie Rhule has been playing the devil’s advocate on MSNBC wondering if calling witnesses will backfire on Democrats because it will interfere COVID relief. Todd said something about the fact that the media has conditioned the public into having a short attention span, which I think was an argument in favor of lengthening the impeachment trial.

    Ted Cruz now wants to call Pelosi as a witness.

  280. 280.

    Ken

    @Elizabelle: I don’t have a WaPo account.  Is that inquiry the Senate impeachment trial, or the Georgia DA who’s considering charging Trump (and Graham?) with violating election-tampering law?

  283. 283.

    patrick II

    @Ken: ​

    I think you can ask Ollie North and why he never went to jail if you want to know about Congressional immunity.

  286. 286.

    pajaro

    IMO, this is about yesterday and last night, not McConnell’s statement. Yesterday, Collins and Murkowski asked Trump’s lawyers for specific information on what he was up to during the riot. The lawayer said there was no time for an investigation, which is kind of funny given who their client is. Anyways, it’s at least possible that they really want more information about what Trump was up to, in order to justify their possible vote to convict. Then, last night, a Republican Congresswoman drops the statement about the call and says she’s happy to go public. I know it’s really contrarian to be non-cynical, but I think it’s a legitimate possibility that there are people in Congress who want to supplement the record that’s there, and I believe it’s that expression of interest that the managers are responding to.

  289. 289.

    Ken

    @NotMax: Wait, you’re making port wine mustard martinis now?  Sounds like a Chopped episode gone horribly wrong

    (Cue six jackals pondering, “Hmm, port wine mustard martini….”)

  296. 296.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    What I can’t figure is why Graham switched from nay to yea on the witness vote? How the heck does that benefit him?

    Also flashing back to De Palma’s “The Untouchables”, specifically the bit where the judge ordered the bailiff to swap the juries on Al Capone. I know, never happened, would have been utterly illegal, yada yada, but it gave that same sort of shifting-foundations, the-fix-was-in-but-now-it-isn’t vibe.

  301. 301.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @citizen dave: I suspect Ted is as sincere in his desire to call Nancy Pelosi as he was when he said he would argue trump’s “case”– that assemblage of delusions– before the Supreme Court. He’s confident he’ll never catch that car, but if he barks the words Nancy Pelosi loud and long enough, he’ll be able to capture the trump base and ride it to the White House (his own delusion).

  302. 302.

    NotMax

    @Ken

    Is there any Chopped episode which isn’t horribly wrong?

    “It’s a red licorice-squid-egg white-peanut butter-zweiback paté.”

    Death rattle of cuisine. No coincidence the chefs and the baskets are all decked out in black.

  303. 303.

    debbie

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’m not an observant Jew, but I’m about to snack on a hamentashen, so I am an authentic Jew. Yes Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is the Sabbath.

  304. 304.

    Ivan X

    @Geminid: Occasionally observant Jew here. Close to correct. It’s a few minutes before sunset to being able to see three stars in the sky the next night. In practice that means 25 hours following sunset. Of course, not everyone observes equally, and many will choose to cut it a little short.

  306. 306.

    Brachiator

    @NotMax:

    As mentioned downstairs, nonfeasance of office.

    I am not a lawyer and do not pretend to be one for purposes of the Internet, but this does not seem quite right. I like this example.

    However, if the victim is drowning in a public pool and the bystander is a lifeguard employed by the city, and if the lifeguard does not act to help, she may be held liable for the drowning because the lifeguard’s employment places her in a relationship with swimmers in the pool. Because of this relationship, the lifeguard owes a duty to take affirmative steps to prevent harm to the swimmers.

    What is it when the lifeguard deliberately pushes a non-swimmer into the water, refuses to help, and interferes with other lifeguards attempting a rescue?​

  309. 309.

    Brachiator

    @WaterGirl: ​
     

    You may know this already, but there is comment box weirdness with Firefox 85.0.2

    For example, I wanted to update a comment, and nothing showed in the box at all until I switched to text.

    Problems creating this reply as well.

    Cheers.

  311. 311.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: What I can’t figure is why Graham switched from nay to yea on the witness vote? How the heck does that benefit him?

    He was just being dramatic. He was saying, “Oh girl, if you want witnesses, I will bring you witnesses!” It’s important to understand most of Lindsey’s schtick is just performance. In a meritocracy, Lindsey would live at home with his mom, unemployed, and perform as Eddie The Motorcycle Guy at the weekend Rocky Horror Picture Show.

  312. 312.

    Steeplejack

    @Brachiator:

    It has been a known thing for a while.

    And I just answered you with Firefox 85.0.2 and the edit box worked fine. But it has been flaky on and off this morning. Can’t pin down a cause.

  314. 314.

    WaterGirl

    @Brachiator: Yeah.  I knew it was a problem with 85.0, then 85.01 and then yesterday someone said it is still a problem with 85.02.

    John said we would wait until Valentine’s Day in the hopes that a Firefox update would resolve the issue.  If not, on 2/15 I will contact the developers.

    Not looking good for Firefox to come through by end of day on 2/14.

    I will look for someone to let me know the score on 2/15.

  315. 315.

    J R in WV

    @Brachiator: 

    What is it when the lifeguard deliberately pushes a non-swimmer into the water, refuses to help, and interferes with other lifeguards attempting a rescue?

    Murder. That’s what those people who mobbed into the Capitol deserve, they collectively killed 5 or 6 people in the commission of a felony.

  316. 316.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ken: No, a martini contains gin and a tiny amount of vermouth.  Anything else is simply a drink served in a martini glass.

  317. 317.

    NotMax

    @WaterGirl

    If not, on 2/15 I will contact the developers.

    Holiday.

    Will mention again it’s not something for Firefox to “fix.” Firefox isn’t breaking the site, the site’s coding is breaking Firefox. (And also, as some have reported in individual cases, Chrome.)

  318. 318.

    Dan B

    @pajaro: Several of Rep. Herrera-Buetler’s constituents point out that her district is turning blue as the Vancouver, WA suburbs grow.  Vancouver, USA is a suburb of Portland for the most part.  She may be positioning herself as the moderate.  At the same time many of the white terrorists call the area home base.

    I believe she fits into Adam’s “delegate” category.  She may only be interested in working for her constituents but there is the possibility as a woman in congress she felt the threat of the mob quite keenly.

  319. 319.

    Dan B

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: Graham’s change to Aye means he has the ability to vote against witnesses if it comes to a vote in the future.  It may be he gets the opportunity to vote against any and all witnesses.

    Emperor Tang 45 will probably not understand.  I’m rooting for a beat down.

  320. 320.

    WaterGirl

    @NotMax: You can mention whatever you want, but a Firefox change caused the break.  The code for the site was there and functioning for well over a year before Firefox came out with their new version.

    It is not unreasonable to wait and see if an update from 85.0 would un-do whatever change they had made that caused the break.

  321. 321.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: The decision NOT to call witnesses makes no sense to me – wondering if, given the information that came out last night, you have thoughts on why they would have decided that and whether you think that was a good decision or not.

  322. 322.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: I’ll be honest.  I am not watching or paying really close attention.  I think the end result is a foregone conclusion. Then again, I am watching England vs Italy in a Six Nations rugby match, and, if that result isn’t a foregone conclusion, I don’t know what is.​
    ​
    ​

  323. 323.

    NotMax

    @WaterGirl

    Firefox did not cause the flaw, it revealed it.

    There hasn’t been a massive surge in reports of the same behavior happening on sites across the width and breadth of the web.

  324. 324.

    dnfree

    @Ken: often in a governing body, if one side loses a member of that side will change their vote to the winning side, expressly because if the body (city council etc.) is following Robert’s Rules, only members of the winning side can make certain motions. I don’t know if the senate follows those rules or similar, but a switch by one member of the losing side can be tactical, not a change of heart.

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