Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Second rate reporter says what?

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Let’s finish the job.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Washington Post’s Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Who You Gonna Call?

Who You Gonna Call?

by | 134 Comments

This post is in: 

Looks like we need another thread after a minor development, namely, we’re going to have witnesses. Since the basic Republican defense of Trump is a variation on the classic abuser excuse, “look what you made me do”, I’ll note that if Trump’s attorneys hadn’t told a bunch of whoppers, maybe there wouldn’t have been as much interest in witnesses.

Here’s a Post explainer on possible witnesses. Notably absent from this piece: Pelosi and others who are Republicans’ big threats. Unfortunately for them, this trial isn’t taking place on the set of Hannity. If you call Pelosi, your questions will need to be germane and respectful. Plus, she’ll have a lot to say about how her calls for help were ignored by Trump.

Also, LOL at Lindsey Graham changing his vote at the last minute because he thinks Trump’s numbnuts ambulance chasers will be able to (a) call some knock out witnesses and (b) cross-examine them effectively. They are capable of neither. They’re fighting amongst themselves so badly that Trump had to beg Schoen to come back after he briefly quit, and one of them just had a meltdown after Senators laughed at him for threatening to call 100 witnesses.

Reader Interactions

134Comments

  1. 1.

    dmsilev

    They’re going to try to call Hillary Clinton and Hunter Biden, aren’t they? Probably also Jimmy Carter, just because.

  2. 2.

    The Moar You Know

    This is what the GOP absolutely did not want to happen, so we must do it.

    I think this might not go so well for them and I suspect they know that.

    Won’t change one final vote but that’s not the point anymore.  Let’s get it all out there.

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    Via the Post,

    At least one person in T****’s orbit did not seem too concerned about witnesses Saturday. In an apparent accidental phone call to a reporter, Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former president’s personal lawyer, could be heard ordering an omelet and a black coffee and telling someone, “Yeah, we’re playing today and Andrew is gonna join us on the course,” presumably referring to a golf game.

  4. 4.

    Betty Cracker

    Video of the lawyer flipping out as the senators laughed at him.

  5. 5.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    MSNBC is reporting Republicans and Democrats are trying to reach a stipulation to simply insert Herrera Beutler’s affidavit into the public record and move on without witnesses.

  6. 6.

    p.a.

    I don’t know if any Dem Sens worked w the House team, but if not, is there any procedure for denying a vote for the Rethugs who coordinated w donnie’s defence? They are after all, jurors. And if so would it still take 67 votes, or would it become 2/3(100-x)?

  8. 8.

    Shalimar

    Who were WaPost’s 9 suggested witnesses?

    I need to set up my subscription through Amazon.  I never have bothered.

  11. 11.

    Betty Cracker

    To repeat myself, I don’t think Trump experiences shame like a normal human, but he is aware of how things look (in fact, it’s the only thing he’s aware of), and he is capable of experiencing humiliation. I’m pretty sure “senators laughing uproariously at my pathetic legal z-team” is making the fucker squirm. As for the z-team, they’ve got a rigged jury, so they want to wrap this shit up. Ergo, they cannot be happy about this development, no matter how much the grotesque Jason Miller struts around waving a print-out of the Democratic caucus.

  14. 14.

    West of the Rockies

    Van der Veen seems like a wretched person.  What a fun husband and father he must have been.  Probably a hoot at parties, too.//

  16. 16.

    Damned_at_Random

    On Faux News just now, Senator Marshall-R(KS) is very concerned about the fate of Biden’s agenda.

    Claims Pelosi will be first witness re her involvement in stopping deployment of Nat Guard. Says Trump had authorized 10000 Nat Guard troops the day before “from very good sources”

  17. 17.

    Ken

    @M31: Yeah, but it’s getting tired, like a Borscht Belt comedian in the 1970s still telling the jokes that wowed them during the Depression.

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    @Damned_at_Random: So his “very good sources” are saying that T**** knew a day ahead of time that a mass deployment of troops would be necessary? Several questions immediately come to mind, starting with “in that case, where were those troops on the 6th?” and “why did he know that?”.

  23. 23.

    Princess

    I thought maybe McConnell announced his acquittal vote to pressure Dems NOT to call witnesses (“there’s no point”). Anyone else get that? If so, I am glad they called his bluff.

  24. 24.

    Ken

    @Tom Levenson: I’m interpreting “Republicans and Democrats are trying to reach a stipulation” as “Republicans are begging ‘please please please’ and Democrats are staring back stony-faced, trying not to start giggling.”

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    Post:

    Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) on Saturday gave House impeachment managers and former president Donald Trump’s defense attorneys a copy of a log from his cellphone, which shows that as the Jan. 6 riot unfolded, he received a call from the White House at 2:26 p.m. that lasted for four minutes, a spokesman for the senator said.
    […]
    That account — and the new phone record — strongly undercuts a claim from Trump’s lawyers on the Senate floor on Friday that “at no time” had Trump been informed that Pence was in danger during the hours-long riot, as well as their complaints that accounts of the phone call presented at trial were mere “hearsay.” It also demonstrates that as rioters forced a halt in the counting of the electoral college votes, Trump was focused on finding additional ways to delay the process; Tuberville was at the time taking a lead in objecting to votes confirming Biden’s election win.

  27. 27.

    Percysowner

    @p.a.: It requires 2/3 of the members PRESENT, not the entire body. The GOP Senators could save themselves a lot of grief by announcing that they refuse to take part in this unconstitutional and improper impeachment and walking out before the vote. Then Trump gets impeached and can’t run again, and they get to declare that they stood up for the country and the Constitution and they are just DEVASTATED that the best man ever is barred from running. To me it’s Win/Win, but these guys don’t seem to think so.

  28. 28.

    CaseyL

    @Just Some Fuckhead:  My guess is, they strategized getting Biden’s agenda through the Senate and figured that they needed all Democratic Senators available for votes on that, rather than Democratic Senators in committee meetings questioning witnesses.

    And, obviously, decided getting Biden’s agenda signed into law is more important than an impeachment trial where the verdict is a foregone conclusion.

    I can’t argue that.  I don’t like it, but I can’t argue against it, either.

    (Unless they can figure out a way to ensure votes on bills happen with all Democratic Senators on deck – I imagine that can be done, but I don’t know enough about the arcanities of Senate procedure to be sure.)

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    What’s the point of a quorum call?  Was that to buy time for the folks on each side to figure out where to go from here?  Schumer did the same thing with Lee’s objection on the first day.  Is that a thing that they do?  As for a quorum call to buy time?

  31. 31.

    patrick II

    If things could be funny in this context, this is funny because of the blowback on Trump for his vindictiveness while delegitimizing the Georgia vote.  He wanted Georgia to lose its Republican Senators to get even with the Georgia governor and atty general, so he sabotaged the Georgia senatorial election — the result of which is that Republicans lost control of the Senate and control of the Senate impeachment trial process.

    So this time we get witnesses.

  33. 33.

    WaterGirl

    I can’t figure out which side the “judge” is chastising when he talks about civil discourse.  he did it once yesteday and once today.  Does anybody know?

  35. 35.

    CaseyL

    C-Span is repeating VDV’s assertion that depos have to happen in his office, the assertion that everyone laughed at.

    Regarding that, it’s an absolute lie.

    I assist my faculty with legal cases frequently (as treating physicians and as expert witnesses), and ever since March we have been doing ALL the legal work – conferences, depositions, and even trial testimony – by Zoom.  Court reporters also attend by Zoom.  It’s not a mystery.

  36. 36.

    JWR

    Just checked FB, and a guy I went to HS with, and who now lives in Japan, (he’s okay), says there was just a 7.1 earthquake over there, so I guess it’s shakin’ all over.

  41. 41.

    Emerald

    @The Moar You Know: 

    Won’t change one final vote but that’s not the point anymore. Let’s get it all out there.

    Actually the Democrats aren’t trying to convict tRump. They’re trying to convict the Republicans. So nice to see the Republicans rushing right into it.

  42. 42.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Sounds like they came to an agreement to insert Herrera Beutler’s affidavit into the record and move on.

  50. 50.

    JWR

    Oh my. Cruz the Ooze, (recorded earlier), on PBS saying that the Managers got a lot of flak from lefty twitter last night, and so were forced to call witnesses. Now he’s pulling out the “what did Pelosi know, and when did she know it?'” canard. Sorry, Ted, this ain’t yer old Democratic party.

  54. 54.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    Joni Ernst is not a happy camper.  She’s getting ready to stomp her feet and hold her breath:

    “Total, total shit show,” Joni Ernst says when I asked about her reaction to this, calling it “a tool of revenge” against Trump. Adds: “if they want to drag this out, we’ll drag it out. They won’t get their noms, they won’t get anything.”

    h/t https://twitter.com/ESCochrane/status/1360636780983308295

  58. 58.

    PJ

    @NotMax: moreover, in a civil trial in non-covid times, you can only subpoena a witness to appear within 100 miles of where they live or work or transact business in person (for parties or trial witnesses, you can compel them to show up anywhere in the state where they live or work).  Philly is more than 100 miles from DC, so most of the witnesses in this case could not be compelled to show up in Trump’s lawyer’s office.  He knows this, and all of the Senators who are lawyers know this, which is another reason for the laughter.

  62. 62.

    Mary G

    @CaseyL: Are you getting snow? All non-political people I follow on Twitter are posting huge snow in Seattle. Excuse if already discussed.

  63. 63.

    feebog

    I’m sure the House Managers want Herrera-Butler to testify because she is already publicly on the record with her testimony.  But they really should be considering calling Kevin McCarthy and getting direct testimony from him regarding his call with Trump on January 6.  The rule that you never ask a question you don’t know the answer to applies here, they must be leary that McCarthy would lie his ass off if called.

  65. 65.

    Brachiator

    @Betty Cracker:

    To repeat myself, I don’t think Trump experiences shame like a normal human, but he is aware of how things look (in fact, it’s the only thing he’s aware of), and he is capable of experiencing humiliation.

    Damned good point. Trump hates a loss of status and deflects any feelings of humiliation. This makes him strike out more to defend himself.

    I’m pretty sure “senators laughing uproariously at my pathetic legal z-team” is making the fucker squirm. As for the z-team, they’ve got a rigged jury, so they want to wrap this shit up.

    And yet he doesn’t mind hiring fools to be his legal team. He sees their loyalty and willingness to say and do anything for him and overlooks their incompetence. Very strange.

  66. 66.

    BlueGuitarist

    Funny that van der Veen literally pounds the table, as in the old joke, and Senators laugh.
    But help me out.
    About 10 minutes into today’s session Van der Veen enumerated “the four reasons why you can vote to acquit in this case: Jurisdiction, rule 23, due process, and the first amendment.”
    Is it a blunder for the defense to omit “not guilty” as a reason to vote to acquit?
    Sure, we all know Trump’s guilty, but are they just flat out admitting he’s guilty and only concerned with which of 4 bogus procedural reasons they will hide behind?

  67. 67.

    West of the Rockies

    @JWR:

    Cruz is intelligent enough to recognize the latest sexy-hot take and repeat it.  He is not an original thinker though.  And he has ZERO self awareness.

  69. 69.

    guachi

    Welp. Dems completely caved on witnesses. Complete and total capitulation. We can now resume normalcy where we castigate Dems for being weak and spineless.

  70. 70.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    OT – Recovering from tendon repair on quad,  which was more dramatic than expected. Am staying away from news and work because of meds, and am in an ankle to thigh cast.

  71. 71.

    Ruckus

    @Percysowner:

    but these guys don’t seem to think so.

    I see the problem with your logic. Thinking is not a problem for them, they don’t bother. They are followers. If they were thinkers they wouldn’t follow the dipshit they are following. They still wouldn’t turn into liberals but at least they might have some connection to reality.

  76. 76.

    patrick II

    The request for witnesses came from Republican senators to clear up the timeline of phone calls to Trump from inside the Capitol.  I find it somewhat disheartening that that is what had to happen to get witnesses.  Republicans have asserted that they are going to vote not guilty regardless of the case presented and that intransigence seemed to make calling witnesses not worth the time and effort(there are many important things to do right now in congress).

    I have heard all week that Democrats were designing their prosecution for public consumption, which included not bothering to call witnesses, but I am very tired of Republicans affecting Democrat’s behavior and reasonable expectations by their intransigence.   The COVID bill has passed, I think other things can wait a week while we give this attack on American Democracy its full due.

  79. 79.

    Immanentize

    What is the Venn crossover for:

    “Why are Dems doing this imoeachment? It’s a done deal!”

    And

    Dems are betraying us by not calling my imaginary perfect witness!”

  80. 80.

    germy

    Be aware: The Republican congresswoman from Georgia just tweeted to Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler that Trump supporters “are watching” her.

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) February 13, 2021

    The gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats.

    First voting to impeach innocent President Trump, then yapping to the press and throwing @GOPLeader under the bus, and now a tool as a witness for the Democrats running the circus trial.

    The Trump loyal 75 million are watching. https://t.co/XjC6pbdtyK

    — Marjorie Taylor Greene ?? (@mtgreenee) February 13, 2021

    “Snitches get stitches” she seems to be saying.

  81. 81.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    My understanding is that the Veep plays no role in the Senate for an impeachment, so a tie vote is a loss. Anybody have knowledge, as opposed to something they think they heard or read?

  84. 84.

    Kent

    @Dahlia: We got about 8-10 inches here in Camas in the hills across the river from Portland. Blowing and drifting up to 2 ft deep in places. My parents live in Canby, just south of Portland and they mostly got ice storms that took out all the power in the region. They are still without power. Unfortunately their entire retirement complex is only electrical power, no gas, so all cold and no warm food.

  88. 88.

    patrick II

    @Baud:

    Fuck.  I thought it had.

    Then suspend the trial, depose witnesses, and start again.
    Am I not playing 11 dimensional chess well enough? I want a real trial for this, and evidence, and then if Republicans still want to betray their country the case against Trump becomes the case against them — bury them with it.

    ETA:
    Just read JMG’s “no witnesses” comment below. It seems a shoddy way for the “defenders of our democracy” to treat a trial for insurrection.

  89. 89.

    JMG

    No witnesses. Herrera-Buetler’s statement read into record. Vote for acquittal today. I am ashamed of my party. I wonder if I and all of us have wasted our efforts to elect representatives who continually fail to do their duty.

  92. 92.

    gene108

    @Betty Cracker:

    Van Der Veen is so far out of his depth, I could almost feel sorry for him, but he’s siding with forces that want to overthrow our government, so fuck him.

  93. 93.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @WaterGirl: If I had to guess, it was too avoid the shitshow Republicans were promising. And for what, ultimately? So Republicans can acquit just like they’re promising to do?

  95. 95.

    J R in WV

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Sorry to hear the injury repair was more strenuous than expected. Injury reports are not necessarily off topic, are they? Hope you are as comfortable as is possible, and that the meds are helping.

    Take care, keep in touch. Nothing happening in DC right now, so you aren’t missing anything.                ;~)

  96. 96.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: thanks, something to bear in mind before we all start the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth and shrieking about spines and balls and fighting.

    I actually had a brief glimmer of hope that Mitt Romney would live up to the image I suspect he has of himself in his head, and that Susan Collins would seek her vicarious (and illusory) independence and integrity from him. I was wrong. Let’s blame Republicans.

  97. 97.

    Captain C

    @Percysowner: They probably suspect, with good reason, that it makes them vulnerable to a loudmouth Q/Trumpist primary challenger who will semi-coherently accuse them of betraying Dear Leader by running away like a coward.

  98. 98.

    Mary G

     

     

    @Immanentize: Back seat driving non-lawyers pitching hissy fits on my Twitter feed. Like doom and gloom. Democrats might just have a strategy, Chicken Little.

  99. 99.

    PJ

    @WaterGirl: It makes no sense to me, either. Testimony from police officers, White House aides, Pence, Representatives and Senators, etc. would be powerful to show the public. Moreover, they could and should subpoena phone records for Trump, Jason Miller, Mark Meadows, etc. to see who they were texting or speaking with.

  100. 100.

    Omnes Omnibus

    FWIW personal injury lawyers are often very good trial attorneys.* They actually spend a lot of time in court rooms unlike litigators at BigLaw. They also do a lot to hold corporate America to account for its transgressions. Perhaps one should be a little careful with ambulance chaser comments.**

    *Speaking in general, not saying Trump’s counsel was a good choice.

    **I am not a personal injury attorney.

  101. 101.

    Kelly

    @JWR: The most populous corner of Oregon is mostly paralysed  by ice and snow. 200,000 to 300,000 households out of electricity. These most destructive storms happen when very cold air draining down the Columbia river gorge meet storms coming in from the Pacific. We have a light coat of ice here in the Cascade foothills and our power is on. Ten miles away and a few hundred feet lower an inch of ice covers everything from the mid Willamette Valley north to the Columbia Gorge and into the Coast Range. A foot of snow up around Portland. More to come. The shape of the land and proximity to the Columbia guide the distribution of the mess. It’s been quite a while since the last one.

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: I posed this question to you in the now apparently dead previous thread.

    The decision to call witnesses makes no sense to me – wondering if, given the information that came out last night, you have thoughts on why they would have decided that and whether you think that was a good decision or not.

    Hoping you and other attorneys might share some thoughts on that.

  104. 104.

    JMG

    It’s nice to pretend, but this was a cave by the Democrats. Not all of them, obviously, but when you need unanimity to do anything, all it takes is a few gutless wonders to end your move. This is a very very bad omen for the covid relief package. If that fails, Biden might as well resign and go back to Wilmington.

  105. 105.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl:

    I wonder if it has to do with the sad realization that there is no way to force truth-telling in this impeachment trial.  The witnesses can grandstand all kinds of lies and propaganda with no way for the managers to punish them if they don’t tell the truth.  The force of those lies and possible political stunts on the witness stand could be very powerful to the right wing base that needs to hear those lies right now.

    Since IANAL or congressperson, I could be wrong here.  But I don’t see from my point of view that there is any way for the managers to enforce truth-telling.

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t think it’s strange that he overlooks competence.

    Competence would make him look worse. And worse yet if he hired competence then he’d have to listen to it or be throwing money away.  Not that he doesn’t still throw it away but it costs more up front and that is not his style, he’d rather pay for competency to get his dumb ass out of a squeeze that his dumb cheap ass put him in the middle of. And he doesn’t buy it then because he’d be admitting that he’s an idiot, except that hiring competency would be smart, and he ain’t.

  110. 110.

    Cameron

    The managers are a pretty impressive bunch. I don’t know enough about how government works to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, but I doubt they’re just rolling over and playing dead.

  111. 111.

    Ruckus

    @BlueGuitarist:

    Sure, we all know Trump’s guilty, but are they just flat out admitting he’s guilty and only concerned with which of 4 bogus procedural reasons they will hide behind?

    It could be. But I’m going with the more obvious reason. He’s a crappy lawyer and a worse person. Or the next most obvious reason, his client is absolutely, positively, 100% without doubt, guilty as hell. And he’s got nothing but bullshit to use

    Adding.

    This impeachment isn’t really about trump. By that I mean that sure we all would like him to get the punishment that he deserves but this really is about the future, the structure of our country and government, about having it actually work, instead of the conservative goal of just  getting out of the way and letting them take everything. This is country that is about all of us, not just the wealthy and everyone else. That is not the conservative view of government. That is what they are trying to get to.

  112. 112.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @patrick II: There was already not going to be witnesses until late last night’s CNN story broke about Herrera Beutler’s account of McCarthy’s phone call with Trump during the putsch. And witnesses aren’t going to stand up in front of everyone and testify. They would have been deposed in Zoom meetings and the written deposition would have been put into the record in much the same way as Herrera Beutler’s affidavit was just entered.

  113. 113.

    Amir Khalid

    Liverpool’s Premier League season continues imploding as they lose 3-1 at Leicester City. ?

  115. 115.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Cameron: The managers are a pretty impressive bunch. I don’t know enough about how government works to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, but I doubt they’re just rolling over and playing dead.

    Maybe. It feels like they neglected the post-putsch side in the House impeachment.

  118. 118.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: ​
      Copied from below:

    I’ll be honest. I am not watching or paying really close attention. I think the end result is a foregone conclusion. Then again, I am watching England vs Italy in a Six Nations rugby match, and, if that result isn’t a foregone conclusion, I don’t know what is.​
    ​

  119. 119.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    My heart is breaking for you guys who are in charge of enforcing Democratic enthusiasm. You will be cleaning this up for weeks.

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    @Ruckus:

    Competence would make him look worse. And worse yet if he hired competence then he’d have to listen to it or be throwing money away.

    Trump is damaged. He doesn’t listen to people who does not tell him what he wants to hear. He doesn’t care about competence. In fact, he enjoys breaking down competent people, pulling them down to his level or making them quit his team.

    Also, he doesn’t pay his bills if he can get away with it. He loves to fuck with people that way.

  121. 121.

    PJ

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Honestly, maintaining “Democratic Enthusiasm” is a big thing.  We aren’t motivated by hate and fear, like the Republicans, so it’s all too easy for us to become deflated, and moved to passivity, by the failure of Democratic politicians to fight with everything they have for justice, even if we know Republicans will block justice wherever they can.

  125. 125.

    J R in WV

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    My heart is breaking for you guys who are in charge of enforcing Democratic enthusiasm.

    None of those here, are there?                         ;~)

  126. 126.

    zeecube

    @PJ: No need to try to squeeze everything into this impeachment trial.  The House or Senate can benghazi this  ad infinitum via investigations, hearings, etc. while conducting regular business of the people.  Time reports for midterm and 2024 elections.

  128. 128.

    johnnybuck

    I think its adorable how some people can blame Democrats for the sins of Republicans. They made their case before any of the events that transpired today, none of which will change the outcome. This trial has always been for the American public because there was never any doubt about the outcome.

  129. 129.

    Kent

    @JMG:No witnesses. Herrera-Buetler’s statement read into record. Vote for acquittal today. I am ashamed of my party. I wonder if I and all of us have wasted our efforts to elect representatives who continually fail to do their duty.

    Oh, for fuck’s sake.  Get a grip.  What is your alternative procedure that would lead to 17 GOP Senators voting to convict?  That was never going to happen with today’s GOP.  No matter how many witnesses get called.

    It was Trump’s team that caved and allowed Herrera Beutler’s statement introduced into evidence.  Dragging her out onto the Senate floor simply to confirm her statement would have served no further purpose.

    this impeachment trial wasn’t about conviction.  Democrats knew that coming in.  I honestly thought they should have pursued other channels like House and Senate hearings with subpoenaed witnesses (like Benghazi) and spend a year or so pulling at every thread.  But I understand the argument that they needed to get the whole thing on the record for the American public and history.  And they did a good job of that.

  134. 134.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @PJ:  You’re on a C-list blog that does insider politics. You’re not accomplishing anything except making yourself feel better for owning someone.

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