Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let me file that under fuck it.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Bark louder, little dog.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Cole is on a roll !

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Cole, when it comes to calico cats, restraint is overrated.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Internecine Strife (Open Thread)

Internecine Strife (Open Thread)

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Rupar is right about Graham’s affect here:

Will also note for those who don’t have the stomach to watch that in addition to “vibrant,” Graham called the short-fingered vulgarian the Republican Party’s most “potent” member, which sounds like the kind of framing an abuse victim might use to salve the ego of a violent tormenter and forestall further abuse. So, Graham vs. Haley. The fight is on for the wizened turd that is the soul of the Republican Party.

Sort of related: toward the end of the thread downstairs, valued commenter Steep said something that resonated:

Can’t remember where I read it—somewhere on Twitter, probably—but someone offered the thought that at this point it’s more helpful to think of the GQP not as a political party but as a virus, concerned only with survival, power and self-replication. That got me to consider the framing of Trump not so much as the head of the party or a cult leader but as the current host of the virus. Now that he’s out of office and facing a lot of legal problems, his viability as a host is in question. (Not to mention he’s old and not healthy.) So Cruz, Hawley, Haley et al. are calculating how to slide into that position without being seen as the one to kill the old host.

Maybe it’s not helpful to think only in terms of “Trump’s base” and think that if the Trump problem is solved everything is okay. (Not saying that you are doing that.) If Trump disappeared tomorrow the racists and fascists would still be around and would quickly find someone else to attach themselves to. Like a virus.​

I think that’s true. But to extend the analogy a bit, maybe it is worth thinking about “the base” to the extent that Mango Mussolini turned out voters like no other Republican could, i.e., the Velveeta Voldemort variant of the GOP virus was more transmissible when the Dark Lord was the host.

I suspect the Haley variant would be less so and that she’d lose two Hair Furor fans for every suburban swing-vote mom she brought on board with her compelling backstory and seeming reasonableness.

Cruz and Hawley are repellent in unique ways, but He Who Shall Not Be Named proved that those who arouse intense disgust in one portion of the electorate can inspire ecstatic devotion in another quarter for the exact same traits. My feeling is Ted and Josh don’t have it in them, but who knows?

Anyhoo. Open thread.

Reader Interactions

188Comments

  1. 1.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    “it’s more helpful to think of the GQP not as a political party but as a virus, concerned only with survival, power and self-replication”

     

    BRAIN WORMS. They gotta eat too y’know.

    Nom nom nom..feeding on MAGAts.

  2. 2.

    cmorenc

    So, Graham vs. Haley. The fight is on for the wizened turd that is the soul of the Republican Party.

    Both of them are from South Carolina, for those looking for correlations, causal factors, etc.

  3. 3.

    germy

    I think it was here that I first read McCarthy traveled to Fla. and asked Trump for his mailing list.  Trump refused.

  5. 5.

    Van Buren

    Hate to be a downer but unless death or advanced dementia intervenes, he will be the nominee in 2024. Between racism, sexism, and the coming wave of suppression, he won’t lose to Harris.

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    @Van Buren: Well, I was dead wrong about 2016, so I hesitate to weigh in, but if it were Harris vs. the shitgibbon in 2024, I’d feel pretty great about our chances. ETA: much depends on how the next few years unfold, of course. But assuming the Biden admin continues its baseline competence…

  8. 8.

    LurkerNoLonger

    @Van Buren:  You don’t hate to be a downer. Your trollish comment is designed to make people feel bad. I don’t feel bad. So your obvious attempt failed. Go fuck your mother. If she’s dead, go fuck her corpse.

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    I agree. None of them speak to the mob’s raw emotions the way you-know-who did. Nikki’s brown and lacks the imaginary  power penis and Josh reeks of Ivy League privilege. Ted Cruz just repels everyone because he’s creepy. Pence is toast for his betrayal. They’ve got to be beating the bushes for a new variant to infect the rubes.

  11. 11.

    RaflW

    Graham called the short-fingered vulgarian the Republican Party’s most “potent” member

    Lindsey telling us way too much about his personal fantasy life.

  12. 12.

    cmorenc

    @Van Buren:

    Hate to be a downer but unless death or advanced dementia intervenes, he will be the nominee in 2024. Between racism, sexism, and the coming wave of suppression, he won’t lose to Harris.

    Nope, Trump won’t be the nominee – he’s far too damaged to make a successful run in the General Election, even against Harris.  However, the GOP will likely instead find a more presentably competent sociopath who is far less personally corrupt, but who will, if elected, pursue most of the same policies, foreign and domestic, as Trump would have, and be better at putting a velvet glove on any autocratic tendencies.  And the uphill factors you listed for why Harris will work in the R candidate’s favor.

    Much depends on how successful Biden is in restoring a public sense of normalcy and security, as well as how successful (or not) amped-up GOP voter suppression efforts will be.

  13. 13.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    My feeling is Ted and Josh don’t have it in them, but who knows?

    I agree, but the number of politicians whose appeal I. Just. Don’t. Get. long predates trump and covers Both Sides. I’d bet against Cruz because he radiates the kind of arrogance of a man who, at Harvard Law, publicly appealed for a study group for “First Tier Ivies Only”; he is that flier on the Harvard Law bulletin board in a suit. With a bad beard that doesn’t hide his doubling chin. And did y’all see that shot of his hair on Weekend Update last night?

    Hawley is a like a smarter, more malevolent, more frighteningly zealous version of Dumbya. I don’t think Hawley, who radiates the smug, spoiled son privilege even more, if in a different way, than Bush, I don’t think he can pull off the “fella you’d want to have a beer with” thing. I do think he might be able to pull off the Billy Graham with a law degree, wrapped-in-a-flag-and-carrying-a-cross fascism that could win the old South and Idaho. Not so sure about, to borrow again from something Valued Commenter Barbara said a while back, about his appeal in the northern and sun-belt exurbs

  14. 14.

    oldster

    “…those who arouse intense disgust in one portion of the electorate can inspire ecstatic devotion in another quarter for the exact same traits. My feeling is Ted and Josh don’t have it in them, but who knows?”

    You should give them more credit.

    Josh and Ted certainly have what it takes to produce intense disgust.

  16. 16.

    Annie

    I think Tr*** had 2 major advantages in 2016:

    1.  His long run on The Apprentice gave him an image — not the reality but an image — as a Tough Guy who could Get Things Done, as well as lots of name recognition
    2. he was a political outsider— he’d never run for or held any public office.

    who else in the GQP has that?  A lot of GQP followers liked Tr*** because they hate the party establishment.  Has that changed?

  17. 17.

    WereBear

    The Republican Party has enshrined Opposite Day: they don’t even pretend to be good people anymore. They have all kinds of substitutions.

  18. 18.

    West of the Rockies

    Going straight to my comment after reading the post.  To extend the analogy, Trump was a super spreader of the virus.  Cruz, Hawley, et al, are not super spreaders becttgey lack Trump’s dark magic.  The virus exists but can now be dampened.

  19. 19.

    RaflW

    As far as Haley, though, she’s flip-flopped aplenty over Trump. She really just lit he reputation as a new kind of Republican (which she at least somewhat did earn in her S.C. governorship) on fire in her desperate attempt to walk a line that gets MAGA credit but with limited Trump stink. It won’t work.

    The MAGAs 1) can smell her calculating fakeness and 2) MAGAs at the core are just racist shits, and won’t really come home for a multi-ethnic child of immigrants.

  20. 20.

    Steeplejack

    @Van Buren:

    [. . .] unless death or advanced dementia intervenes, he will be the nominee in 2024.

    I wouldn’t bet against either of those. Trump will be an unhealthy 78, if he lasts that long, and video shows how much he has already declined mentally during his term in office.

  21. 21.

    RaflW

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hawley is probably too ambitious, but I think he’d be a natural as the next Mitch McConnell. It really can be a very powerful position, but it doesn’t come with a special podium seal, a fancy gubmit funded house, nor a pair of weapons-hardened 747s.

  22. 22.

    Nicole

    I believe it was our fearless blog leader, M. Cole himself, who made the virus analogy for the GOP.

  23. 23.

    Steeplejack

    @Betty Cracker:

    You’re right about Graham’s affect in that top tweet’s video. He looks awful—puffy, sluggish and speaking just above a monotone. Wow.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    Speculating on their nominee at this point is pretty pointless.  (Doing everything we can to splinter their party, though, is very helpful – do that ;)

    Organizing and making sure the party succeeds in 2022 will be beyond huge.

  27. 27.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Van Buren:

    he will be the nominee in 2024. Between racism, sexism, and the coming wave of suppression, he won’t lose to Harris.

    Um…

    Besides Haley vs Graham, there’s McConnell vs Graham. McConnell, like Pelosi, takes a national view, he wants to take back the Senate. The Senate battle ground/s in 2022 are (to varying degrees): WI, PA, AZ, GA, FL, NC and OH. It seems McConnell doesn’t think trump helps in those places.

  32. 32.

    CaseyL

    MTG has that essential “in your face malevolent dumbness with a sprightly sprinkle.”

    She could absolutely make a run for the Top Job in 2024.

  33. 33.

    patrick II

    If he decides to give up his FOX gig, Tucker Carlson is the person I think is most capable of being host-virus.  He practices his race-based resentment filled lying to the public for an hour every night so he should do fine on the campaign trail.  He is an “outsider” and can continue the fiction of Trump that only an outsider can clear the swamp and fix the system — code for getting all of those democratic minorities out of powerful positions.

    I think he is dangerous.

  35. 35.

    Captain C

    At this point I really can’t figure whether Lindsey’s behavior since the Shitgibbon got nominated is due to extreme sub issues or if he actually has secrets dark and/or depraved enough to warrant his overly enthusiastic public groveling promotion of the Turd and his sad clan. For that matter, I don’t see Lindz standing for anything other than his Senate bennies and maximizing his TV face time being Today’s Daddy’s attack newt.

  37. 37.

    germy

    After his confirmation, AG Garland should mail Louis DeJoy a mandatory notice to appear.

    Two days later, when he fails to appear— because he didn’t receive the notice— he should be taken into custody.

    That’s how you play hardball, while savoring irony on a whole new level.

    — Dr. David A. Lustig (@drdave1999) February 14, 2021

  38. 38.

    Geoduck

    @Steeplejack: Crenshaw’s also managed to piss off the hardcore MAGA crowd by keeping one foot in reality. I already forget the exact details, but after a particularly virulent outburst of idiocy, he said “you’re all being idiots”, which didn’t go over well.

  39. 39.

    Benw

    @debbie: if we can maintain the 81 million coalition from 2020 (I know, I know) for the foreseeable future, it won’t have died, we’ll have killed it!

    @Jeffro: yep yep

  42. 42.

    Another Scott

    @Van Buren: Brookings on 2020 exit polls:

    […]

    Exit polls released by the national election consortium Edison Research (accessed November 11, 2020) allow for national- and state-level comparisons with those from 2016. Figure 1 shows the shifts in Democratic minus Republican (D-R) voter margins for racial groups. (The D-R margin is defined as the percent voting Democratic minus percent voting Republican. A positive value shows a Democratic vote advantage whereas a negative value indicates a Republican vote advantage.)

    [ graph ]

    While whites continued to favor the Republican candidate in 2020—as they have in every presidential election since 1968—it is notable that this margin was reduced from 20% to 17% nationally. At the same time, the Democratic margins for each of the major nonwhite groups was somewhat reduced. The Black Democratic margin—while still high, at 75%—was the lowest in a presidential election since 2004. The Latino or Hispanic and Asian American Democratic margins of 33% and 27% were the lowest since the 2004 and 2008 elections, respectively. These shifts do not apply to all states, and are not applicable to most battleground states where voters of color were crucial to Biden’s win

    [ graph ]

    It is clear that white voting blocs start at different levels of Democratic or Republican support. In fact, there was a modest decline in Republican support in a key Trump base: white men without college educations. This group showed a reduced Republican advantage from 48% to a still sizeable 42% between 2016 and 2020.

    Yet among white voters with college educations, there were notable shifts in Biden’s direction. White male college graduates reduced their support for Trump from 14% to 3%. At the same time, white female college graduates boosted their Democratic support from 7% to 9% nationally. Moreover, in key battleground states, white female college graduates generally registered greater support for Biden in 2020 than they did for Hillary Clinton in 2016.

    The other noteworthy change that impacted the 2020 election concerns D-R margin shifts for different age groups. It should not be surprising that after a summer of protests and activism among young people, persons age 18 to 29 registered a rise in Democratic support between 2016 and 2020, from 19% to 24%. Some of this is attributable to the increased Democratic-leaning nonwhite presence in this age group, due to the nation’s changing demographic make-up.

    […]

    Donnie did worse among important white groups in 2020 than in 2016. Changing demographics still favor Democrats. He would do even worse in 2024.

    The GOP knows they cannot win fair elections, so they’ll continue trying to ramp up voter suppression. That’s where the election will be won or lost. Biden and his DOJ and the Congress knows this. They’re not going to roll over.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  43. 43.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: The Republicans will do much of the splintering themselves. But one thing I hope Democrats do soon is to introduce Comprehensive Immigration Reform legislation. This is a wedge issue for Republicans, maybe the biggest.

    I was reminded of this last month when Hew Hewitt brought up immigration reform on his radio show, and asked for comments from his listeners. Half (like Hewitt) were for it, and half were against it. Vehemently.

  44. 44.

    Amir Khalid

    @Van Buren: ​
     

    unless death or advanced dementia intervenes, he will be the nominee in 2024.

    I think bankruptcy or incarceration is far more likely to keep Trump from running in 2024.

  46. 46.

    Tim C.

    @Captain C: Who the hell knows?   I mean what, 70% of the GQP still adores Trump?  Maybe it’s that?  His state is crazy as hell on the best of days,  or there could be some blackmail involved as he was clearly going above and beyond (Phone call to Georgia ) to overturn the election results.

    I agree there’s another layer with him though.

  47. 47.

    WereBear

    @patrick II: That would fit right in. It was Reality TV Trump who put him over the top, I can see that working for the Fish Stick King.

    It’s not like any of them understand, or support, government: why not draw from Right Wing Media? That’s what counts with their Base.

  49. 49.

    Adam

    The adorable part of Haley is that she thinks she could win. MTG, Trump Jr, Tucker Carlson, all of them would wipe the floor with her in a primary.

  50. 50.

    Redshift

    @Annie:

    His long run on The Apprentice gave him an image — not the reality but an image — as a Tough Guy who could Get Things Done, as well as lots of name recognition 

    This. I recall reading about how one of the under-reported factors in T**** winning the nomination was the decision by Fox to have a debate where inclusion and prominence was based entirely on polling, at a point when polling indicated nothing but name recognition. Several major pollsters pointed this out and refused to let their polls be used.

  52. 52.

    Doc Sardonic

    @debbie:  Cruz is trying to morph from the needle-nosed, know it all Poindexter that the jocks beat the shit out of, into the rugged, outdoorsy, Marlboro man, Uber cowboy. Fucker now thinks he’s Wade Garrett.

  53. 53.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Graham is an idiot and Haley’s right, she puts up enough of a fight and Trump will back down and come groveling to her.

    As for Graham, Jesus Christ, if the rumors of him being gay are true, he is certainly a bit emifenite, has been bulled and abused all his life by lowlife mircohands like Trump?

  54. 54.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Well, guys, on a personal level, 2021 sucks as much as 2020 did. Some of you may recall that my sister died right after Thanksgiving. Now, two and a half months later, her younger son was found dead in his apartment last night after his boss initiated a welfare check. My nephew had apparently had Covid a couple of weeks ago but had gone back to work, then failed to show up for a few days and couldn’t be reached. I don’t think he actively took his own life, although alcohol abuse quite likely played a big role; we’ll know more after an autopsy. Anyhow, I’m sad and furious. Brandon was a nice kid, but he had too many demons and insufficient resources to fight them.

    Shit shit shit. This just sucks.

  55. 55.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Adam: MTG, Trump Jr, Tucker Carlson, all of them would wipe the floor with her in a primary.

    Sure, but none of them could win the GE because they all Trump twats.

  56. 56.

    West of the Rockies

    @Cameron:

    I put DeSantis in with Cruz:  they are both extremely unlikable even among Republicans.  Piggy Pompeo is in that group, too.  And I don’t think it’s my subjective take only.

  57. 57.

    patrick II

    @germy:

    They thought they stood outside the system treating the “other” with suspicion. Instead, the system feedback loop of paranoia turns back on them and now they are inside the circle of the untrusted. There is no “other”.

  59. 59.

    MattF

    Keith Olbermann offers an anecdote about his own history with T****:

    I hated Donald Trump when hating Donald Trump wasn’t cool.
    My credentials date back to Dec. 15, 1983, when CNN sent me to cover a public forum featuring the moguls of four New York sports teams. One of them, the newly minted proprietor of the long-forgotten New Jersey Generals, got up and spoke interminable nonsense for what felt like 20 minutes.
    He promised the signing of superstar players he would never sign. He announced the hiring of immortal coaches he would never hire. He scheduled a news conference the next day to confirm all of it, and the next day never came.
    As I finished recording one-on-one interviews with the three other owners, George Steinbrenner, Sonny Werblin and Fred Wilpon, he emerged from the darkness and began answering questions into my microphone before I asked any. He repeated his boasts of future glory, but this time he mentioned an entirely different set of coaches and players than he had from the podium. As we helped the crew pack up to head back to our newsroom, I said to my equally flummoxed producer, “What the hell was wrong with that Trump guy?”
    I have some seniority on this topic.

    I don’t think any Republican politician can match this degree of long-term psychosis.

  62. 62.

    sdhays

    Put me down for dementia and/or advanced legal troubles preventing a Dump 2024 campaign, but the other wildcard that people seem to forget is the Twitter ban. I think Dump’s Twitter account was his most  dangerous weapon, and without it, he’s silent. Sure, he can go on Fox or OANN or whatever, but he’s just not going to have the ability to make everything about him the same way he did from 2015 to 2021.

    I’m not sure how that will affect the GQP’s support for him, but I think his support is going to quietly decline, at least in intensity.

  63. 63.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @germy:AG Garland should mail Louis DeJoy a mandatory notice to appear.

    Two days later, when he fails to appear— because he didn’t receive the notice

    ROFL

  66. 66.

    narya

    Current priorities should be (in rough order), covid relief (including getting the economy on track, with jobs in green/new industries), voting rights reform (at multiple levels, preferably starting w/ federal), fix the post office, convicting the rioters (quietly, forcefully, legally), and getting out the vote at every level, in every election. Don’t get distracted by what “they” are doing or not. Getting things going again, in better directions for common folks, will help more than anything else.

  69. 69.

    lowtechcyclist

    @cmorenc: ​
     

    Nope, Trump won’t be the nominee – he’s far too damaged to make a successful run in the General Election, even against Harris. However, the GOP will likely instead find a more presentably competent sociopath

    I have to disagree. One of the lessons of 2016 was that the gatekeepers had lost control of the GQP, and at this point can you even say there are any gatekeepers?

    If Trump runs and can still energize a crowd, I wouldn’t bet against him. And in the general: don’t forget that despite winning nationally by 7 million votes, Biden’s margin in the states that gave him his EC win was frighteningly small – not within range of a recount, but smaller than Trump’s margin in 2016. I’m not counting him out for 2024 until he’s dead, in prison, or in memory care.

  72. 72.

    Doc Sardonic

    @SiubhanDuinne: Damn…..words can be hollow and sometimes don’t convey the emotion behind them but my condolences on your loss and may love, light and memories bring you peace.

  74. 74.

    Doc Sardonic

    @debbie: Awww shit…..he went with the Fuckwit Fachy. Somebody needs to stuff his ass in a locker. He was better off trying Marlboro Man.

  77. 77.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jeffro: You seem to have mistaken this blog for the DNC strategy committee. No shame in that; this blog often makes that same mistake! ;-)

  78. 78.

    Jeffro

    @Benw:if we can maintain the 81 million coalition from 2020 (I know, I know) for the foreseeable future, it won’t have died, we’ll have killed it!

    Hey, if we can win not one but two Georgia Senate runoffs…if we can rouse 81M Americans to get out and vote…and since 2, 4, 6, 8 years from now America will less white, less religious, and more progressive…I like our chances.  But only if we do the work (which, honestly, is a joy most days!)

    I see it much like Officer Daniel Hodges, MPD: “If it wasn’t my job I would have done it for free, it was absolutely my pleasure to crush a white nationalist insurrection.”

    High fuckin’ five on that one, Officer Hodges.  =)

  79. 79.

    craigie

    @germy:

    I just watched Judas and the Black Messiah, and if that story is any indication, when the FBI wants your number, they will have your number. The traitors are right to be worried.

  82. 82.

    Immanentize

    Why are you all leaving out the Big Man as Trump’s heir:

    Mike Pompeo.  He’s got it all.  Former CIA Head, Secretary of State, serious Christian wackadoodle dominionist, misogynist, hates the folks of color, and a mean bully boy.

    All boxes checked.

  90. 90.

    danielx

    …He Who Shall Not Be Named proved that those who arouse intense disgust in one portion of the electorate can inspire ecstatic devotion in another quarter for the exact same traits.

    Which is why I have found the last five years so depressing on the macro scale – to find so many fellow citizens find a man with so many detestable traits to be so admirable. I knew they were out there, I had never suspected (prior to 2016) there were so many of them.

  91. 91.

    Zelma

    @Immanentize:

    But Pompeo has all the charisma of a wet sponge.  I think Carlson is the most likely.  He has the “outsider” cred and the TV fame.  Except that his fame is much more limited than Trump’s was.  After all, his show was number one on a national network while Carlson is number one on Fox News.  There is a difference.  He might win the nomination but I don’t think he can win the general.

  92. 92.

    Immanentize

    @SiubhanDuinne: I really am so sorry.  I am feeling this crushing burden of lives wasted this past year….  My kindest thoughts are with you.

    ?. They say the darkest hour, is right before the dawn.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    A virus is not the correct metaphor.  The Republican party is now a cult rather than a standard political party, with Trump as the cult leader.  All that matters to cult members is pleasing the leader and staying in his good graces.

    This makes me think that the absolute best possible form of ratfucking at this point is to convince Trump the 7 Republicans who voted to convict him need to be expelled from the party for disloyalty.  If we can do that, it will be incredibly damaging to the party.  It would either ruin their position in the Senate by shrinking their caucus from 50 to 43 or drive a wedge between Trump and McConnell. It seems like a perfect thing for Project Lincoln to work on, if only they weren’t imploding at the moment.

  96. 96.

    Amir Khalid

    @patrick II: ​
     I don’t think that’s it. I have two theories: A, for who knows whar reason, Ted is going for the look of a robber-baron villain of the week on the old Wild Wild West TV show; B, it’s just Ted being a slob.

  97. 97.

    patrick II

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​

    That is hearbreaking. We have lived in a system for too long run by people that pretend that what they do, or choose not to do, doesn’t matter. Each of us matters, especially to the ones we love, but also all of us as a part of the larger turning wheel. I am sorry for your loss.

  102. 102.

    Booger

    FFS, does ANYBODY here think we’d be where we are WITHOUT Putin’s thumb having been on the scale since Shitgibbon was first marked back in the 80’s? That’s a perfect storm of malevolent intent which doesn’t seem like it could be duplicated…particularly if the NRA link in the chain is broken. We learned a lot of lessons about outside fuckery since 2016, so let’s not attribute superpowers to the worst president in the history of presidenting.

  103. 103.

    Martin

    Is anyone aware of any group (such as Indivisible) that is working to reclaim the cultural definition of ‘patriot’ and its iconography from the fascists?

    I’m thinking ‘1/6/21 Never Forget’ type iconography as well as establishing that patriots fight to protect every vote, fight for equality, for facts, etc. That would also include labeling those who attacked the Capitol as fascists, and Trumpism as fascism. Basically pulling patriotism back from nationalism, where it currently is, toward working for the ideals of the country.

    Because that needs to happen in this moment.

  105. 105.

    Bevstersf

    My money is on DeSantis eventually taking over. You can’t fake crazy, and it doesn’t seem like he’d have to.

  106. 106.

    Immanentize

    @Zelma: I agree with all of that, but Carlson can’t even do “pleasant” anymore.  He just has beady-eyed anger.  And I bet he can’t dominate anyone in real life.  Pompeo wants to crush people.  If half the country wants a revenge leader with a flaming sword….

    We should start a pool.

  107. 107.

    Captain C

    @Tim C.: ​
      Most Republicans seem to have happily gone along with it for the reason you say, their voters are Trumpists for the most part. I’m sure some of them (if not most) have varying degrees of kompromat, (financial, sexual, or otherwise) but are happy to do what they’re doing regardless for reasons of electoral self-interest. It’s the degree of Lindsey’s enthusiastic servility that really stands out.

  108. 108.

    Emma from FL

    @SiubhanDuinne: I am so sorry. There are times when everything terrible seems to happen at once and all you can do is hunker down and bear it. Take care of yourself.

  109. 109.

    Immanentize

    @Captain C: I assume that Brazil is the South American country in which Ali Alexander is planning to park his MAGA village.  GG as the head of the Ministry of Information.

  110. 110.

    cmorenc

    If Trump does succeed in winning the 2024 nomination, the same key factor as in his narrow 2016 win may come into play if the “Lincoln Project” and rump faction of more moderate Republicans decide to form a third party – which, as in 2016 could drain off just enough voters to secure Trump another narrow win. One should hope that 2000 and 2016 would have taught folks tempted to chase principled third-party unicorns the counterproductive folly of that, but consider how many Nader voters in 2000 still defiantly refuse to admit they bear any fault for Bush’s victory, contrary to everything they sought to achieve with that vote.

  112. 112.

    West of the Rockies

    @Immanentize:

    Honestly, I find Pompeo so repellant, so hungry for power and prestige that I can’t fathom other people not feeling the same.

    I DO think he lacks Trump’s ability to stir a crowd.  Trump has a certain social intelligence among a certain group.  I think Piggy lacks that.

  113. 113.

    different-church-lady

    I suspect the Haley variant would be less so and that she’d lose two Hair Furor fans for every suburban swing-vote mom she brought on board with her compelling backstory and seeming reasonableness.

    There is only one direction the GOP can go at this point: ever more extreme. The red-meat wing will devour everything in its path. There’s no turning back, and the “reasonableness” wing is going to have to find another home.

    That’s the devil’s bargain they made with Trump, and the Devil doesn’t rewrite contracts.

  117. 117.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Zelma: I know a lot of people talk seriously about Carlson, I just don’t see it, at least not for President– apparently he has a home in Maine, and I’ve seen people speculate about a run from there, but Collins was just reelected and (I’d like to think) Angus King would snap him like a dry twig.

    I do think we tend to underestimate how important the notion of ‘trump is a successful businessman’ is to his support, in ’16 and right through to ’20. We see the trees of the myth– his massive failures, his massive debt, the massive trust-fund from daddy– , most people just see the forest of the game show and the helicopter. Carlson has nothing like that. He’s the rightwing version of the human boat shoe, to steal from O’Bro Jon Lovett. I could see him winning statewide in the right state– I can’t imagine he’s do anything less than the Senate– but not straight to the White House.

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: A lot will happen between now and 2024, obviously. But if I had to bet money now on who will be the the two last men standing in the Republican Presidential race, one would be Mike Pompeo. The other would be Chris Christy.

  121. 121.

    GrannyMC

    Haley will never be the GOP presidential nominee, because the GOP will never nominate someone who isn’t a white Christian male. They might let her run for veep because they’re big on tokenism to show why it’s mean to call them racist misogynists, but even that’s a stretch.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @GrannyMC:

    They might let her run for veep because they’re big on tokenism to show why it’s mean to call them racist misogynists, but even that’s a stretch.

    I strongly suspect that’s her real play. She’s ambitious and not stupid, and it’s about the only step up from governor. If Scott decides to go be head of Liberty or Regent’s, maybe she’ll make a lateral move to bide her time. I’d bet Lindsey’s gonna die in that seat, if he can.

  125. 125.

    BruceFromOhio

    Cruz and Hawley are repellent in unique ways, but He Who Shall Not Be Named proved that those who arouse intense disgust in one portion of the electorate can inspire ecstatic devotion in another quarter for the exact same traits.

    Hard-wired for Cleek’s Law, and no amount of deprogramming or Democratic messaging is going to change that. The only way this democracy survives is if more of the ‘disgusted’ consistently vote than the ‘ecstatic’.

  126. 126.

    Martin

    @Roger Moore: The Republican party is now a cult rather than a standard political party, with Trump as the cult leader.

    I don’t think this is correct either. Trumpism, and at least the degree to which it’s infected the GOP, is a fascist movement.  This is a political movement, not a religious one.

    There’s countless definitions for fascism, mainly because it’s difficult to find the essence of it among its various manifestations, but Roosevelt called it this:

    The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.

    I think it’s pretty safe to say that ownership of government by Trump is the essence of Trumpism, of Q, and of too much of the GOP.

  127. 127.

    Bill Arnold

    @Van Buren: ​

    Hate to be a downer…

    Bullshit. Forecasting a loss 3.5 years away is exactly and deliberately being a downer.

    Trump lost. The Democrats held the House and won the Senate. Trump’s approval rating is way down. He will continue to face legal challenges, both criminal and civil, and fact-finding investigations. His brain is slowly but visibly (over a few years) failing. The Republican Party has been captured by believers in alternative realities (falsifiable ones), and that fact can be made to damage them politically, and the GOP is also vulnerable to manipulation and wedges opening up fault lines The press has woken up and is less susceptible to manipulation including news cycle manipulation. Anti-RW activists have skilled up a lot, including in influence operations and real-time defenses against them. The general populace is a bit more aware of emotional manipulation.
    Etc. It’s in play, and Democrats have some advantages. Republicans don’t have much except voter suppression and gerrymandering and the general anti-democratic (pro-rural) nature of the US constitution.

  128. 128.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @cmorenc: Both of them are from South Carolina, for those looking for correlations, causal factors, etc.​

    Cradle of Sedition!** Too small for a nation, too large for an insane asylum!

    ** Orta be the motto on the Hairypalmetto State’s license plates.

  129. 129.

    James E Powell

    @Annie:

    A lot of GQP followers liked Tr*** because they hate the party establishment.  Has that changed?

    Yes. Republican voters hated their establishment because they were too weak in opposing Obama. That’s why they dumped Cantor and got Boehner to quit.

    Trump’s loud and shameless racism is what they wanted and what they got. And the GQP establishment is now fully on board.

  132. 132.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Bevstersf: Strange as it is, De Santis is getting some QAnon love. There are some fictitious accounts of him yelling at Biden after Biden “tried and failed” to put restrictions on Florida, after which Biden backed off and DeSantis singlehandedly saved the country from Biden.

    It got some traction. It was very odd.

  133. 133.

    WaterGirl

    @Tenar Arha: Your comment was in moderation because your email ended with .vom instead of .com – you may  have already caught that, but if not you’ll need to correct that before you comment again.

  137. 137.

    Another Scott

    Can the Senate get to 60 on a commission to investigate the Capitol attack?

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) February 14, 2021

    It’s a puzzle!!1

    There are so many issues like this. There needs to be a test vote on this soon.
    If Congress cannot adequately investigate an actual bloody attack on itself because of cloture rules, then the cloture rules must change.

    (It looks like the Senate vote to create the Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities was unanimous. I don’t quickly see whether it was a filibusterable or not.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  141. 141.

    Geminid

    @James E Powell: The Establishment/Tea Party, Chamber of Commerce wing/Populist wing conflict that led to Eric Cantor’s 2014 primary loss continues in Virginia. And the Republicans keep losing. I’m hoping this becomes the trend nationally. It seems to have already hit Arizona.

    In Virginia the “populists” have aligned with evangelical dominionists to form an especially toxic brand.

  146. 146.

    Brachiator

    Hate to be a downer but unless death or advanced dementia intervenes, he will be the nominee in 2024. Between racism, sexism, and the coming wave of suppression, he won’t lose to Harris.

    I know that the person who posted this earned a lot of honest pushback, but nobody, nobody, nobody has a crystal ball. At least not one that reliably predicts the future. So aside from crystal balls as sexual equipment, there ain’t much here worth debating, disputing or getting upset about.

    Anyway, I like our chances in the future, and I do believe that current optimism is real and will continue. More than that, who da fuck knows?

    Lots of gnashing about the Republicans. They want to try to corral Trump supporters, with or without Trump. But they have to appeal to a group that is angry, racist, and increasingly deranged. That Republicans are eager, desperate to cultivate this base says much about both the Republicans and those who vote Republican. And what it says is not good at all.

  151. 151.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m sorry for your loss.  One of the problems with alcohol abuse(and I speak from personal experience) is falls and hitting your head on something.   I almost bought the farm 10 years ago with a fall when I was drinking(it was also why I quit drinking).

     

  159. 159.

    Dan B

    @SiubhanDuinne: My thoughts are with you.  It’s difficult to lose anyone you love but there is something different about losing the vulnerable young ones.  It questions our seeming inability to know when or how to intervene or if an offer of a hand or ear might have made a difference.

    May you find safe hands and safe harbor.

  160. 160.

    Just Chuck

    @Van Buren: 

    No chance T even wins the nomination. Too much Loser Stink on him. Not to say they won’t nominate someone else bugfuck insane, just not Velveetamort again.

  161. 161.

    pluky

    @Steeplejack: As someone who’s been getting more and more sober for just a few 24 hours, Lindsay has the look of one who’s been hitting the sauce often and hard. BTW, this does not end well.

  165. 165.

    TomatoQueen

    @SiubhanDuinne I am so sorry that this has happened in your family and I hope there will be strength and comfort for you. What a hard hard thing.

  168. 168.

    Dan B

    @Martin: Reclaiming ‘Patriot ‘ from the RWNJ’s sounds great.  It seems to me that it would be simply a rhetorical success unless it’s tied to more than broad concepts like equality.  Specifics would be valuable at fleshing out a vision and a moral core.  Opportunity for all who dream, through 21st Century clean energy jobs.  Vast improvement to corporate responsibility to their local communities. Etc.  Make ‘Patriot’ synonymous with a vision for a fair future and retaining the best of our heritage, and expanding human dignity.

  170. 170.

    catclub

    @Annie: ​
     

    who else in the GQP has that? A lot of GQP followers liked Tr*** because they hate the party establishment.

    Tucker Carlson.

  172. 172.

    catclub

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: ​
     

    Graham is an idiot and Haley’s right, she puts up enough of a fight and Trump will back down and come groveling to her.

    I was just going to say with all the SC GOP polLs, no love for Tim Scott?

  178. 178.

    Bill Arnold

    @BruceFromOhio:

    Hard-wired for Cleek’s Law, and no amount of deprogramming or Democratic messaging is going to change that.

    Sure, but as has been shown quite recently ( :-), and shown time and time again, it it fairly easy to modulate progressive outrage (sometimes in good faith, but still), and (probably) even easier to module right wing perceptions of it.

  181. 181.

    Mike G

    “Vibrant” and “potent”, seriously?

    Either Trump is boning Lindsey, or Lindsey badly wants to be boned by Trump.

  182. 182.

    JohnC

    @LurkerNoLonger:
    You lost your temper, but I (and others here it seems) agree with you that “Van Buren” claiming they “hate to be a downer” is a steaming load of excrement
    I also notice that, so far, Van Buren’s warmly-felt observation has been comment-and-run.

  184. 184.

    pattonbt

    There is no R candidate out there that can replicate Trump. There will be those that will try to replicate him and some will have bits and pieces of Trump, but none will have the total package. The imitators will continuously (to hopefully hilarious but benign heights) try to outdo their competitors for the mantle, but all will pale to the original.

    Trump’s main megaphone is dead, and silence (outside enforced or self-induced) begets oblivion which is harder to come back from. Trump might just be an old TV show by 2024 – with only hard core fans wanting reruns – and who watches reality show reruns anyway?

    But, in the end, though, I just do not see how the R party can ever put forth a RINO-like candidate again in the near future. The crazies finally got their taste and they will not be content to ever again be shoved to the back to be appeased by dog-whistles – they want the bullhorn and libs properly owned. If the field is wide – the craziest will win. If the field is narrow, then who knows. And it is looking like a wide field.

  185. 185.

    Chris T.

    @Amir Khalid:

    unless death or advanced dementia [take Trump down]

    I think bankruptcy or incarceration is far more likely to keep Trump from running in 2024.

    Of those four, I think the only one that could actually stop him is death, and even then I’m not sure about that one. Republicans keep calling for Zombie Reagan, perhaps Zombie Trump will still be their leader too.

  188. 188.

    fuckwit

    I am not so sure that there is anyone who could take Troll’s place and duplicate his successes.

    For example, I think Obama was a uniquely talented once-in-a-lifetime politician; we will not see another like him in a few generations.

    I am also now starting to think that Troll was a once-in-a-lifetime demagogue that happened to be in the right place at the right time; we will not see another like him in a few generations. Thank the gods.

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