Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Everybody saw this coming.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

You are here: Home / Politics / GOP Death Cult / Open Thread: The GQP, All Very Fine People

Open Thread: The GQP, All Very Fine People

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J.D. Hillbilly Fraudster, back on his beat:

ICYMI:

Reader Interactions

168Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    You might want to tune into CNN right now for the Biden Town Hall in Milwaukee. He’s answering questions about COVID.

  2. 2.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Biden is really good at retail politics. He’s crushing this town hall.​
     

    That said, I’m disappointed he hasn’t talked about his crowd size or toilet flushing.

  3. 3.

    The Thin Black Duke

    It’s saying something when you realize how comfortable this PA GOP guy  was saying this so openly.

  4. 4.

    laura

    The petulant demand for uninterrupted and unaccountable power continues apace. The heaping helpings of racism and misogyny are the lagniappe. Rand Paul sure puts his shoulder to the wheel when he douche bros.

  5. 5.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Do the people who promoted JD Vance smell anything fishy?
    I’m a big fan of Glenn Close, and I hear Amy Adams delivers a great performance in that movie, but I don’t know if I’ll be able to bring myself to watch it.

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    The Trump voter, of course, questions about the $15 minimum wage, and why have it in a less expensive region like the midwest?  He’s concerned about small businesses (he has a woodworking business.)

    Biden emphasizes it’s a gradual increase.  “No one should work 40 hours a week and live in poverty.”  Applause.

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @The Thin Black Duke: something of a silver lining of trumpism is they tend to forget, or just not now, that there are some parts that you’re not supposed to say out loud. Very Serious People still too often pretend not to hear them, but I think some less serious people hear it more frequently

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:   To speak of “the previous guy”:

    his Atlantic City casino (which is not his because, bankruptcy; who knows which one) is getting exploded tomorrow.

    Biden just said “Donald Trump” and said that he’s tired of talking about him and doesn’t want to talk about him anymore.

    Honorary jackal territory.

  10. 10.

    Elizabelle

    “We’ll be right back, and we’ll have more questions for the President of the United States, Joe Biden.”

    Happy sigh from me.

  15. 15.

    CaseyL

    This is about the only time I wish I had cable. Does anyone know if the Town Hall is being live-blogged or live-tweeted somewhere?​
     

    Never mind: The good old Guardian is liveblogging it.

  16. 16.

    Elizabelle

    @rikyrah:   (1)  glad you are getting a shot soon.  (2)  Loved that photo this morning of a Chicago street snowscape.  You may be less thrilled with it.  Stay safe!

    Biden just said again that we’re sick of talking about Trump.

    It is a sickness.

    Applause for saying prosecutorial decisions will be left to the Justice Department.

  17. 17.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Elizabelle:

    The Trump voter, of course, questions about the $15 minimum wage, and why have it in a less expensive region like the midwest?  He’s concerned about small businesses (he has a woodworking business.)

    I’m sure Biden didn’t, and probably shouldn’t, ask, but I hope someone at CNN follows up and asks him how many employees he has, and how much he pays them.

    Also now’s a good time for some snarky Dems on twitter to remind everybody of the time the Papa John pizza guy hosted a fund-raiser for Willard (what a house! what a pool! what grounds!) and told reporters an increased minimum wage (I believe at the time the Dems’ target was $10/hr) would mean his shitty pizzas would cost 39 cents more. Each.

  18. 18.

    Alison Rose

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Folks I know who are from/live in Appalachia mostly loathe him, his book, and the movie, if that offers any help in your decision-making.

    (I’m sure there are plenty who love it, but the vast majority of what I’ve heard is negative, to put it mildly.)

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    @CaseyL:   If you click on that Live News site, “Top Headlines” is CNN, and “Politics” is MSNBC, via Rockin Rooster’s site.  Good way to watch some online news, for free.

    Good to hear about The Guardian coverage, though.

    https://livenewschat.eu/breaking-news/

    Biden is very plain spoken and not tiptoeing around any of the issues raised.

  22. 22.

    dmsilev

    Listening to the town hall, it’s so nice once again having a President who is both a decent and a competent person. The last four centuries, I nearly forgot what that was like.

  24. 24.

    Bill Arnold

    For the techies, re the current state of Parler:

    Parler update ❤️:
    – All posts/images/videos wiped
    – Accounts still there
    – CloudRoute LLC is the new host https://t.co/y41GcjmOMb
    – Amazon S3 replaced with Ceph
    – Post enum patched (makes sense, wasn’t used for anything except helping to put 200 people in jail

    — crash override (@donk_enby) February 15, 2021

    (Parler says they’ll restore old content, in phases.)

    Also, same person (female activist responsible for Parler downloads used in impeachment trial after the insurrection, competent):

    oh, by the way, parler-tricks still work, except for that post/video enumeration API endpoint https://t.co/Llq72JNOZG
    — crash override (@donk_enby) February 15, 2021

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    Anyone have ‘I’d love to talk to you more about this’ and ‘I’m sorry to go so long’ on their drinking game cards? If so, my condolences to your liver.

  26. 26.

    Elizabelle

    Joe keeps apologizing for going on so long, but he is not verbose.  He knows his subject, and wants to reassure Americans that he understands the question.

  27. 27.

    rikyrah

    @Elizabelle:

    I am a little nervous about the ?. But, I can’t wait to get to my appointment.

     

    The snow removal folks finally got to my house this afternoon. I have paths ?

    I can get out to work tomorrow

  28. 28.

    Martin

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think you’re conflating two different accounts (which I believe both are true, not taking at all away  from the point you were making).

    The Papa John thing I think is the Obamacare ‘I’m going to pass my Obamacare costs onto consumers!’

    Even the very liberal (checks brower tab) Forbes magazine said it’d be no more than $0.10 per pizza, as if that wasn’t way inside of his menu costs. Nothing resonates more with consumers in a TV ad that you can get a medium one topping pizza for $7.09.

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    My gawd.  Joe lives in the real world.  He speaks of seeing all the interracial couples in TV advertising, and does not bring it up as culture war artillery.

  30. 30.

    Martin

    @Elizabelle: That’s a bit of a trick. It’s his way of signaling he wishes he could talk to them until all of their questions were answered but the format simply doesn’t permit it. It’s a way to get credit for being willing to talk to everyone even when you can’t.

    Martin has used this trick – a lot.

  31. 31.

    dmsilev

    @Elizabelle: Conservatives go nuts every once in a while over those ads. Also, and he didn’t mention it, ads which show same-sex couples as, you know, normal people.

  32. 32.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    Actual quote from a PA GOP official, explaining why Sen. Toomey should be censured: “We did not send him there to vote his conscience. We did not send him there to ‘do the right thing’ or whatever”

    “Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and he betrays you instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 

    something of a silver lining of trumpism is they tend to forget, or just not now, that there are some parts that you’re not supposed to say out loud.

    We are past that. Trump offered an open invitation to be racist. A good chunk of his base are very happy to be bigots.

  35. 35.

    opiejeanne

    @rikyrah: Yay for you!

    Our street was plowed this morning, after the 12 inches of snow was reduced to 5 or 6, but I’m happy it got plowed because I didn’t want to cook tonight and mr opiejeanne could pick up some Chinese food.

  36. 36.

    gwangung

    I was pleased they actually plowed some of the hiking trails, so I could get a little exercise in. Helped alleviate the cabin fever up here in Seattle.

  38. 38.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    (comment essentially deleted because of the subject matter, *and* that I think it’s to the wrong entry, which turns a crude joke into something far worse, due to the lack of context.)

  40. 40.

    opiejeanne

    @gwangung: Did you read about the 90 yo woman who walked 3 miles each way on Sunday to get her vaccine??? Sunday was pretty bad over on the east side, so I suspect the snow was deep and still falling in town.

  41. 41.

    James E Powell

    @Yutsano:

    For a guy who was supposed to be senile and who supposedly struggles to speak, he is addressing every question sincerely, directly, and with more information than I think anyone expected him to know off the top of his head.

  42. 42.

    Suzanne

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:

    That said, I’m disappointed he hasn’t talked about his crowd size or toilet flushing. 

    Countertops? Dick size? Come on, we’re not learning A N Y T H I N G.
    I was just commenting to Mr. Suzanne that tomorrow is Ash Wednesday, and I was flashing back to last year, with tRump blathering about reopening by Easter because it was “so important to [him]” or some other complete and utter nonsense?.
    This has been going on for a year. Fuck. Fuck.

  43. 43.

    Elizabelle

    @James E Powell:   I am so happy to be watching this.

    And every answer, diametrically opposed to the waste of breath that preceded him.

    This long answer about not being used to being waited upon — take that, Individual One.

    Interesting that he was never in the Obamas’ private living quarters.

  44. 44.

    Suzanne

    @PsiFighter37:

    Rand Paul is truly an ass. His neighbor must regret not breaking more than his ribs. 

    I don’t advocate for violence, but I do smirk with glee when I think about this episode of American history.

  45. 45.

    HumboldtBlue

    Joe is pitching a perfect game. Knows his tone, knows his timbre, knows his rhythm, knows his stuff.

  46. 46.

    Uncle Omar

    Where is the smart money on the identity of the person who wrote Trump’s screed damning Yertle to Hell.  Since it wasn’t in Trumpian Word Salad we can be sure it wasn’t himself.

  47. 47.

    Elizabelle

    That went really quickly, and was very reassuring, if you’re not a Republican [politician or hanger on.]

    Over.

  49. 49.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    All the living former presidents — with one exception — have called Joe.

    Who could the exception be? It’s a puzzler.

  55. 55.

    CaseyL

    @HumboldtBlue: He’s having a conversation with people.  Responding appropriately to the topic, being reassuring – and honest.

    I admire his honesty in telling the person who asked about $50K in college debt relief that he will not “make it happen,” though he will propose other ways of easing the debt burden.  (Good ones, too; the program to pay off debt by working in public service of one type or another has been extended to doctors  Nice to see it might be extended to other fields.)

  59. 59.

    Amir Khalid

    @dmsilev:

    I’ll even bet he reserves that first scoop for special occasions. He knows that if you have it all the time, it’s not special anymore.

  61. 61.

    dmsilev

    @Martin: That was the episode I had in mind. Really amazing, yet at the same time unsurprising, that Cheerios sparked such anger from the right.

  62. 62.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Uncle Omar:

    Where is the smart money on the identity of the person who wrote Trump’s screed damning Yertle to Hell.

    Dan Scavino, former White House Director of Social Media.

  63. 63.

    dmsilev

    @Amir Khalid: According to many observers, including his grandchildren, Biden really likes ice cream, so wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a staple. But, I guarantee you, if it’s on the menu at a WH working lunch he gets the same size serving as everyone else.

  64. 64.

    Kent

    Rand Paul is truly an ass. His neighbor must regret not breaking more than his ribs.

    Remember.  When Sinema and Manchin advocate for keeping the filibuster.   What they are saying is that Rand Paul should have a veto over every Democratic initiative.  Rand Paul.  He is about the 60th vote give or take.

  65. 65.

    Ken

    @Martin: The 2013 boycott of Cheerios over such an ad was really something.

    Oh, is that why General Mills went out of business and I haven’t been able to buy Cheerios for nearly a decade?  I never put two and two together.

  67. 67.

    Martin

    @dmsilev: Not really. Cheerios are shaped like an O as a secret plot by Obama to indoctrinate your kids. You think the birth certificate was a long con, Cheerios first came out in 1941! The libs were plotting that for 72 years!

  75. 75.

    Jeffro

    @James E Powell:For a guy who was supposed to be senile and who supposedly struggles to speak, he is addressing every question sincerely, directly, and with more information than I think anyone expected him to know off the top of his head.

    I know, right?  I thought he was supposed to be a complete fucking moron, propped up by Antifa super-nurses, or something.

    I think the question of our time is, how can we bring cognitive dissonance – the kind they would get from watching a mere 5 minutes of this town hall – to bear on RWNJs who never leave their FoxBubbles?

  78. 78.

    Another Scott

    @Kent: OTOH, Prospect.org:

    But in his many media appearances over the sanctity of the filibuster, it was never mentioned that Manchin voted in January 2011 in favor of several Senate rules changes that had the effect of reducing the filibuster’s power. While the reforms that Manchin supported then did not completely eliminate the ability for senators to filibuster, they are similar to several possible rule changes that could allow Democrats to hold majority votes on bills this year, even without “abolishing” the filibuster. Chief among the changes that Manchin voted for in 2011, which didn’t pass, was a return to the “talking filibuster,” known from its portrayals in popular culture.

    […]

    Now, Senate Democrats again have a menu of options to bring bills to a vote even if they don’t currently have Manchin and Sinema’s vote to eliminate the filibuster. The “Mr. Smith” rule is an option for Majority Leader Schumer, as a way to force Republicans to exert tremendous energy explaining why they’re blocking votes on bills with at least 50 senators in support. More exceptions to filibusters, like the one for budget reconciliation bills, could be added for other measures, such as the democracy reform package H.R. 1. Requiring a talking filibuster in this Congress would seem to be right in line with the Senate traditions that Manchin espoused a decade ago—and in the midst of the legislative churn in a couple months, maybe his opposition to completely eliminating the filibuster will erode.

    He can change his mind, or fineness his position, again.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    @Suzanne:I was flashing back to last year, with tRump blathering about reopening by Easter because it was “so important to [him]” or some other complete and utter nonsense

    Nailed it.  That was when any chance we had at a sensible response – and a couple hundred thousand fewer dead Americans – started to swirl down the bowl.  “We’ve gotta get people back in churches for Easter!!”  Um, why exactly, orange moron?  What’s Easter about, again?  Are there other ways to celebrate it without getting millions sick?  Is it possible that you’re anti-mask because it smears your spray-tan?  And so on and so on.

    Note to my future self: don’t be afraid to get madder, and louder, earlier.

  80. 80.

    Suzanne

    @Martin:

    Cheerios are shaped like an O as a secret plot by Obama 

    Remember when John McCain made some snark-ass comment about Obama’s campaign logo being a “presidential seal” or some other complete bullshit?
    I bet some overpaid semi-sentient dickhole got paid to think that up.

  82. 82.

    Martin

    Huh. CA is introducing legislation that would allow converting underutilized (not yet defined) golf courses into public housing and green spaces.

  83. 83.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    interesting

    Kayla Tausche @kaylatausche· 36m
    At #CNNTownHall, voter says $50,000 in student debt relief per borrower — not $10,000 — is what is needed, and asks @POTUS what he will do to make it happen.
    “I will not make that happen,” Pres. Biden says, bluntly.

    President NeverTwitter strikes again. Did Jen Dillon plant a Berner in the audience?

  84. 84.

    Suzanne

    @Jeffro: There are times that my opinion of Republicans — yes, all of them — plummets from “dangerous, misinformed, willfully ignorant Nazis with comorbid daddy issues and micropenis” all the way to REAL contempt, and thinking of their duly elected Orange Leader botching the pandemic response, sending half a million Americans to their graves, all so he could pretend to be religious after cheating on his third wife with a porn star is one of those times.

  87. 87.

    Eunicecycle

    @Suzanne: and when Obama was in Ohio and people were hysterical that he had created his own FLAG with an “O” on it-which happened to be the OHIO flag?

  91. 91.

    Millard Filmore

    @dmsilev:

     

    That Obama and his time machine again. Why can’t he just kill Hitler like a normal time traveler?

    If you have the wherewithal to do time travel, why kill Hitler? Simply go back to when he was an artist and fluff his ego by wildly overpaying him for his works. Make him forget any political ambitions.

  92. 92.

    Kattails

    @Elizabelle: I understand that the Bidens don’t drink.  That definitely leaves some room for extra calories somewhere else, and ice cream would be a reasonably valid replacement.

  97. 97.

    Dan B

    @Elizabelle: When I started my Lanscape design and Construction business in the 80’s we had lots of middle class clients.  By the time I retired two years ago it was only multi millionaires.  There are plenty to go around in Seattle area but I missed doing modest projects that improved people’s lives and gave pleasure to their friends and neighbors.  One great achievement was turning off-putting blank front yards into inviting places where neighbors would stop to converse with my clients.  The wealthy have property that separates them from their neighbors so it was not possible.  It was clear to me by the aughts that the middle class was being hollowed out.  And the minimum wage depressed the economic flow that had supported many people and the people several rungs up.

  98. 98.

    Suzanne

    I still can’t believe the 45th president of the United States has no access to social media, and the left—alleged opponents of corporate power—is just totally fine with it.

    You fucken mendacious piece of shit, Vance…. the right are the ones who supported the right of private enterprise to decline to bake gay tweets or whatever oh why the fuck do I even look for any principle beyond immediate self-interest.

    We are fine with it because y’all keep doing this to yourselves.

  102. 102.

    Kent

    @Millard Filmore:If you have the wherewithal to do time travel, why kill Hitler? Simply go back to when he was an artist and fluff his ego by wildly overpaying him for his works. Make him forget any political ambitions.

    Fascism would still have emerged in some other form in Germany.  Probably not so all-consuming evil.  But the forces were there.  Watch Babylon Berlin on Netflix.  It’s a pretty good picture of those times.

  103. 103.

    James E Powell

    @Millard Filmore:

    If you have the wherewithal to do time travel, why kill Hitler? Simply go back to when he was an artist and fluff his ego by wildly overpaying him for his works. Make him forget any political ambitions.

    How about going to back to when he was a toddler, kidnap him, and have him adopted by a nice Jewish family in New York City?

  104. 104.

    HumboldtBlue

    @James E Powell:

    How about going to back to when he was a toddler, kidnap him, and have him adopted by a nice Jewish family in New York City?

    Let me introduce you to my son, Adolf Fleischman.

    That just feels wrong.

  105. 105.

    RobertDSC-iPhone 8

    Power outage in my neck of the woods here in southeast LA county. Even the lights on the freeway are off. Spooky tunes.

  106. 106.

    Kattails

    @Dan B: What is it that this woodworker, asking Biden about the $15 minimum wage, can’t grasp about people being able to afford his stuff?  When I had to work a crappy  minimum wage retail sales job for a while, I could afford NOTHING. Another employee wearing a pedometer at that store clocked 4-5 miles a day.  Then you’d have to watch the videos with the perfectly coiffed and botox’d CEO who rakes in millions a year. The clothes were inexpensive to the point where tagging on another dollar wouldn’t hurt the consumer–unless that consumer was only making minimum wage.

    How can anyone afford to pay a carpenter upwards of $50 an hour, and that’s when someone’s giving you a deal, when it’s going to take you an entire shift to earn that one hour of someone else’s labor?  This should not be hard. We have examples in recent history where the minimum wage allowed people to live decently.  The opposition to it just baffles me. Especially from those who would benefit from having a broad middle class.

  108. 108.

    artem1s

    @dmsilev:

    The last four centuries, I nearly forgot what that was like

    I’m listening to Joe talk about what it’s like to be living in the residence and he mentioned it’s only been a month.  Hard to believe yet such a relief.

  109. 109.

    Amir Khalid

    @Kattails: ​ It’s only part of a complete answer. But many in the elite believe that for the upper class they inhabit to exist, there needs to be an underclass. In other words, they believe in an economic caste system.​

  110. 110.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Kattails: Most of these “small” business people and MBA’s don’t think that way. They are continually looking for the home run sale. I used to have that argument with a friend of mine constantly about pricing products and ability of people to purchase. Even Henry Ford realized early on that if he didn’t price his cars and pay his employees enough to afford one, his business wasn’t going survive on selling 100 cars a year.

  111. 111.

    Jay

    @Dan B:

    yurp. General Contractor who had to quit because I had two types of customers. The Rich who wouldn’t pay, and those who were trying to keep a roof over their heads or a business open who had to pay in instalments.

  112. 112.

    Ruckus

    @Kattails:

    ice cream would be a reasonably valid replacement

    Damn straight!

    OTOH, I can’t abide any milk products whatsoever. OTOOH there are a few flavors of non dairy ice cream products that do satisfy the quest for ICE CREAM!

  116. 116.

    Redshift

    @Suzanne: Vance is now apparently lazy enough to just jump on the wingnut taking point of the week.

    There’s this Canadian wingnut I follow on Twitter. (An acquaintance, I originally connected with him to sell a ticket to an event.) I keep him to keep tabs on the currents in wingnuttia, because he usually doesn’t say really awful stuff, he just echoes mildly awful stuff.

    Last week, it was “leftists claim to hate big corporations, but they’re soon happy to team up with them to crush any disagreement.” So clearly this idiotic argument is going around.

  117. 117.

    Jay

    The grifter: My 8 year old nieceThe prize: Playing virtual hooky permanently (School Zoom calls)The marks: My sister, my brother in law, the teacher, the school’s computer teacher, the principle and Zoom's support teamThe con: How she pulled it off… thread pic.twitter.com/cdz3SRhRu9— Mike Piccolo (@mfpiccolo) February 13, 2021

  118. 118.

    Suzanne

    @Redshift: It’s so fucken exhausting. They just cannot grasp the exceedingly basic fact that laws are only about the compact by which people agree to live together. So, like, when they fought for freedom to discriminate against LGBT customers, and for weakening unions and pushing at-will employment, this is the unintended consequence. We all fucken told them that it was bad, that they wouldn’t like being on the disempowered (aka “canceled”) side of that deal, but they did it anyway. So, because I am a bad person…. I feel nothing. Live with it and maybe, maybe next time you won’t support stupid shit you regret.

  122. 122.

    Jay

    So many people I know are freezing at home, while cities have all but left mutual aid groups to take care of houseless people. https://t.co/MGcyDqeaul— Samantha Grasso (@samjgrasso) February 16, 2021

    The disinformation about Texas is nuts. While some wind farms froze, the bigger problem is frozen instruments at coal, gas, and nuclear plants. The problem isn't believing in climate change, it's ignoring it and not proofing the systems against increasingly erratic weather events— David Pakman (@dpakman) February 17, 2021

    Less than 10% of Texas’s electrical energy grid is wind and solar.

  123. 123.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: Auto financing is a terrible financial decision, but GMAC arguably had every bit as large an impact on the auto market as the moving assembly line. Cost smoothing is incredibly powerful.

  124. 124.

    Another Scott

    @Martin: Yup, but Henry thought credit was a moral failing.  He was a nasty old koot in a lot of ways, but he did help create the modern industrial middle class in America with the $5/day wage.  These days, the MotUs would just have people buy SUVs with 120 month loans…  :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125.

    Kristine

    @Kattails:

    The opposition to it just baffles me. Especially from those who would benefit from having a broad middle class.

    The disconnect between “worker” and “consumer” has always puzzled me. Give it to the worker in the neck, and then bemoan the excessive use of consumer credit and rising debt loads and why isn’t anyone buying my product. I just don’t get it.

  127. 127.

    Kristine

    @Redshift:

    Last week, it was “leftists claim to hate big corporations, but they’re soon happy to team up with them to crush any disagreement.” So clearly this idiotic argument is going around.

    I’m seeing it this week, but don’t know what it’s referring to.

  130. 130.

    Martin

    @Jay: California will always have Art Rosenfeld to thank:

    He was annoyed at seeing colleagues in his building leaving lights on at the end of the day, and took it upon himself to go throughout the building turning them off. At the same time, California utilities were projecting a 7 percent annual growth in electric demand, and were planning to build a number of nuclear power plants along the coast.

    His mission changed when he became convinced, as he said, “it would be more profitable to attack our own wasteful energy use than to attack OPEC.” He noted that “if we Americans used energy as efficiently as do the Europeans or Japanese, we would have been exporting oil in 1973.” While most researchers at the time were trying to find ways of producing more energy, Rosenfeld committed himself from then on to reducing energy use.

    There are photos online of people in Texas suburbs looking toward the city at night, and it’s lit up like you wouldn’t believe – street lights, parking lot lights, every office building lit up. All of those buildings have power because their contracts give them priority. There’s nobody there. No cars in the parking lots. No people in offices. In the foreground it’s pitch black. Homes have no power. People are going to freeze to death.

    Art Rosenfeld headed up the California Energy Commission, practically forever.

    He gave validation to the very unorthodox notion that economic growth could be decoupled from energy growth. He was really the guru of efficiency.

  133. 133.

    Llelldorin

    Actual quote from a PA GOP official, explaining why Sen. Toomey should be censured: “We did not send him there to vote his conscience. We did not send him there to ‘do the right thing’ or whatever”

    That may be the closest thing to an outright villain line that I’ve ever heard in real life. That’s the sort of thing a character in a sci-fi says to let you not sweat it when their ship is destroyed in the third act. The closest I can even find is from Farscape:

    Aeryn: (impatient) “Compassion”? What is “compassion”?

    John: Compassion? Wh- you’re kidding right? It’s a feeling that you have when you see someone else’s pain and instead of taking advantage of their weakness you help ’em.

    Aeryn: (nodding) Oh. I know this feeling.

    John: Yeah well it is a fairly common human feeling.

    Aeryn: I hate it.

    John: You know what? I’m on the wrong team here, I’m just going to stay.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    @Martin: ​
     

    CA is introducing legislation that would allow converting underutilized (not yet defined) golf courses into public housing and green spaces.

    At least in my area, golf courses are mostly in places like flood plains that can’t and shouldn’t be developed for housing. I think it would be great to turn them into public green spaces, if only because golf courses are so wasteful in comparison to other parkland.

  135. 135.

    Jay

    @Martin:

    back in the 80’s, the Tech Company I worked for, had Building Automation Sensors that shut the lights off if nobody was there.

    When I built our house in the ‘Aughts, it was net zero, passive and Leeds.

  137. 137.

    Mary G

    Amusing thread about a Texan older brother militia survivalist coping with the weather;

    so my eldest brother, who is a moron, has been playing soldier with his moron friends in the deserts of texas for the last year preparing for the collapse of civilization if biden won (lol). they were burying food and ammo stashes out in the desert, running drills, crazy stuff— Jean-Michel Connard (@torriangray) February 16, 2021

  138. 138.

    Roger Moore

    @Kent: ​
     

    Fascism would still have emerged in some other form in Germany. Probably not so all-consuming evil.

    That’s a pretty important difference! People don’t single out Hitler just because they hate fascism. They single out Hitler because they correctly see him as the primary cause of WWII and the Holocaust, which were far worse than what came from other fascist dictators.

  141. 141.

    Roger Moore

    @Kristine: 
    The problem is that Econ 101 teaches micro instead of macro. Our world would be so much better if people learned about why Keynesian economics works rather that just supply and demand.

  142. 142.

    Jay

    @Mary G:

    LMFAO, thank you.

    I have a K-9 in the backpack I take every where I go. Just the basic’s including the simple can opener that every Canadian MRE included from 1941 on. $0.15 at any Army Surplus Store.

    Opens cans, cuts barbed wire, chainlink,………

  143. 143.

    Ilefttxwhenannlost

    Jan 6th and needy am in remind me mostly of Charlie Manson…incitement to murder…check….cult…check….Nazi…check..,the followers went to prison…and so did Charlie…should.be the same

  144. 144.

    Jay

    in a stunning display of everything wrong with capitalism, apparently there are cops there now, preventing people from taking this food. that’s right y’all, they THREW AWAY food and would rather forcibly stop people from taking it than let folks eat for free. https://t.co/6FXM4KXFUm— G MONEY (@yourantifagf) February 16, 2021

  145. 145.

    Jay

    Another example of the brilliance of “we have no taxes!” Texas. This is the Texas/Arkansas border. Our state leaders laughed at them when they bought snowplows. So, on the left is the Texas side of the highway, on the right, the Arkansas side. pic.twitter.com/cHSYP217uw— Kurt "Masks Save Lives" Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) February 17, 2021

  147. 147.

    Martin

    @Roger Moore: Depends on the school. Our intro and most common GE econ course is almost entirely macro.

    Lots of economists believe that you can’t understand the concepts in micro if you don’t understand macro and strongly  advocate for macro to be the first taught.

  148. 148.

    Redshift

    @Kristine: Yeah, the story they’re telling themselves is that it can’t be possible that their people have finally gone too far for social media platforms, it must be that powerful leftists are pressuring them to “cancel” conservatives (who they’re already biased against.)

  151. 151.

    JWR

    Orange County, CA barfs up another insurrectionist. Neighbor says “I think both sides need to be held accountable.” Wonder which “both sides” she thinks stormed the Capitol?

    FBI Arrests Costa Mesa Man Christian Secor Charged In US Capitol Riot

  152. 152.

    scav

    @JWR: While I’d personally go for punishing them inside and outside,  I’m sure there will be others in favor of front and back.

  155. 155.

    Martin

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Economists and academicians disagree.

    There are two benefits normally pointed to in defense of macro before micro:

    1. Macro is usually more interesting, and has more relevance to students that, you know, don’t own a business and stuff. That engages them more in economics as a way of thinking about problems and not as a tool to solve a problem.
    2. Applying macroeconomic principles to micro problems may be overkill and overcomplicate things, but that’s better than applying microeconomic principles to macro problems (running a government is like using a checkbook). Micro is where the perfectly spherical cows live. It’s where supply and demand are related to each other and nothing else, or where wages and employment are related to each other and nothing else.
  157. 157.

    Martin

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Lots of schools teach macro before micro. Hell, most textbooks put macro before micro until universities demanded they reverse the order because they wanted to teach them in the other order.

    We’re steadily removing micro from the GE requirements and leaving the macro because macro is more important for general citizens to understand than micro. Our most basic econ course is 90% macro and 10% micro.

  158. 158.

    Gvg

    @Roger Moore: people flunk macro. They get told by the teachers how it works, and argue that can’t be right. I deal with financial aid academic progress petitions and I remember my own experience in that class decades ago. IMO Americans need to get some economic theory starting much younger than college and repeated multiple years like math or english. We wait too long to teach it and people form wrong ideas they don’t unlearn.

  159. 159.

    prostratedragon

    @Martin:  For the first month or so of the semester. Then you move on to why externalities, public goods, goods of different qualities, (in ligt of all the above) the need for regulation,  international trade, etc., complicate that picture to where it’s a poor guide on its own to most situations. Any micro course that does not introduce these things isn’t doing its job.

  160. 160.

    sab

    @Gvg: If we teach it before college it will be BS, like History.

    Micro is about how individual businesses actually work. It is often very murky ( what is the ideal price point? Nobody knows.) That’s the point. Every business owner is trying to guess and hoping to be right on every product or service. That’s what they spend their business lives doing. That’s where the rubber hits the road.

    Macro teaching is intensely political and ideological.Mostly they twist the facts to get to their point of view. Can’t do that in Micro.

  161. 161.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Martin:

     universities demanded they reverse the order because they wanted to teach them in the other order.

    That is because you need micro principles to understand macro, I really do understand this, my degrees are in the subject.

  163. 163.

    sab

    Not so off topic. I am currently obsessed with Dorothy Dunnet’s two historical series. Just finished her fourth Niccolo book, where he goes to Africa with some of his guys and his best friend Loppe, who was a slave captured from Africa.

    I have read about Henry the Navigator as a great explorer. I had never realized how much he opened up Africa to be exploited for the African slave trade. I thought it had been going on since forever. Not so. Europeans before the fifteenth century thought the world ended just south of Portugal. Before that most of the Mediterranean slave trade was Christian/Muslim Crusades related.

    Back to my point that History as curated by politically connected local school boards is nonsense. Miss the whole phucking planet for the shrubs in their yard.

  164. 164.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kristine:

    Paying their workers shit feeds power, ego, cruelty, and racism.  You aren’t powerful if you are restricted from hurting others.  You aren’t uniquely superior if the common person deserves good things.  It’s the Galtian trap.  I worked for Papa Johns and watched it happen real time as Schnatter went from paying his employees much better than average to ensure good service, which got him rich, to chiseling his employees any way he could while building monuments to his own greatness.  It’s why poorer Republicans support these things politically.  When you get off on cruelty and stomping down the Other, making sure someone else can do it feels morally right.  People vote/act on their feelings much more than their personal economic interest.  Liberals aren’t alone in that.

    @Kristine:

    Republicans have always been furious that they get pushback rather than praise for shitting on others.  Trumpism validated that feeling.  So they’re in a snit that Trump got taken off Twitter and their holy racism is finally facing some consequences.  Everything else is the excuse that sounds convincing at the moment.

  166. 166.

    apocalipstick

    @Martin: Intended usage has to be a factor. I finance cars, but I keep them for fifteen years. Ten years of outright ownership mitigates the 3-5 years of payments, at least for me.

  167. 167.

    JML

    @apocalipstick: 0% financing is also mitigating the 5 years of payments rather nicely too. I bought a new car late last year (my first brand-new car in my life) and I expect this car will be mine for at least 10 years. I don’t really mind the payments over the next 5 years since they’re at 0% and at no time will the value of the car dip below the amount I still owe on it.

  168. 168.

    Kristine

    @Jay: the one thing I did see is that ‘cancel culture’ is being replaced with ‘consequence culture’, which makes so much more sense.

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