Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Republicans in disarray!

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

I was promised a recession.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

We still have time to mess this up!

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Thursday Morning Open Thread: There’s Snow, and There’s (Terrible) Snow Jobs

Thursday Morning Open Thread: There’s Snow, and There’s (Terrible) Snow Jobs

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  2. 2.

    Baud

    Interesting that Sanders polls higher than AOC. I assume that’s because AOC has been the subject of demonization in right wing media more than Sanders has been.

  4. 4.

    Jeffro

    Hey AL, thanks for posting that @torriangray ‘survivalist’ tweet thread last night, that was great.

  7. 7.

    Jeffro

    Ted Cruz flying to Cancun during the Great Texas Freeze has the potential to be the greatest self-own, ever.  Please Texas voters – don’t forget!!!

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    Good morning, jackals. EJ Dionne had an excellent column on this topic in today’s WaPost.

    Why Democrats aren’t fraidy cats anymore

    [Pres. Biden and Democrats] have learned an essential lesson. Voters always say they like bipartisanship, because most Americans prefer people to be nice to each other and work together. But what they care more about is solving problems and getting things done. If the party in charge fails in that essential duty, endless bend-over-backward negotiations and a big, inclusive “process” won’t save them.

    Which explains one of Biden’s most curious lines during his effective and empathetic performance during a CNN town hall event in Milwaukee on Tuesday: “The nation is not divided.”

    You can imagine the words “FACT CHECK: FALSE” flashing across the nation’s computer and video screens. …

    But Biden was making a different point. Beneath our partisan rancor, there is, in fact, broad agreement on how we should move forward. He had in mind especially his $1.9 trillion covid-19 relief package.

    A Quinnipiac poll conducted from Jan. 28 to Feb. 1, for example, found 68 percent of Americans supporting it, only 24 percent opposing it. That’s pretty united. Those $1,400 checks? The survey found 78 percent for (including 64 percent of Republicans), only 18 percent against. On hiking the minimum wage to $15, it was 61 percent for, 36 percent against.

    A study that will be released on Thursday by Bright Line Watch, a group of political scientists monitoring our nation’s democratic practices, underscored this. It found “cross-party consensus on government spending for COVID relief but stark polarization over certification of the presidential election and impeachment.”

    …. Biden and the Democrats are operating with confidence because they have finally embraced what has long been true: Progressive economic policies are broadly popular. Many of them (notably those checks) are supported by the GOP’s large working-class wing.

    Let’s also recognize that when Republican congressional leaders claim to want bipartisanship, they are not operating in good faith. That’s a strong statement, but it’s rooted in reality, not partisanship. Republicans want nothing like what Biden wants.

    …. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told the Wall Street Journal on Monday that Republicans see Biden’s package as too big and look forward to fighting it. “That will help unify our party,” McConnell said. “I don’t think many Republicans are going to be for very many of the things that are coming out of this administration.”

    Is Biden supposed to pretend that McConnell didn’t say this?

    … Most Americans are neither anti-government ideologues nor culture-war extremists. They turn to the federal government to act boldly in a time of crisis not because they love government in the abstract but because they understand it as the only entity capable of taking on certain large tasks. That’s why Biden is confident about the course he’s on — and it’s why he shouldn’t back down.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Net Favourables:

    Biden: +11%
    Sanders: +7%
    Harris: +5%

    Fake poll. No way these 3 musketeers poll better than trump ever came close to, and not one of them even had a boat parade!

  11. 11.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I used to occasionally listen to Rush early early on(I am a big radio person) when there were still a lot of liberal and middle of the road radio voices around and he actually was funny but he quickly got mean. We are talking between Bush 1 to Clinton. Liberals have really screwed up not having an answer to conservative talk radio. Podcasts haven’t been around that long so conservative talk radio was pretty much the only thing out there for at least a decade if not two.

  14. 14.

    JMG

    So yesterday here in Mass. Governor Baker announced the state was opening vaccination appointments to residents ages 65-74 and those with two comorbidities. There are roughly a million such people here. This was to begin at 8 a.m. at the same time the state made available 70,000 new appointments. Since I was up early and had nothing better to do, I tried my luck at 8 on the dot. The application on the state website had already crashed, and it hasn’t come back in the times I’ve tried again. World medical capital is likely to be close to the last state to get its citizens vaccinated at this pace.

  17. 17.

    Quinerly

    Sooo… I pulled the trigger and purchased a Toyota AWD Sienna, 2019 for our upcoming 4 month camping, driving trip thru Southern CO to Lake Powell, North Rim of Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde, New Mexico, and back thru Southern AZ, Tubac, Tucson, Phoenix, Cottonwood, South Rim of Grand Canyon, and Winslow (Christmas Day!!) I just want September to get here.!!! Reservations are made. AZ state park campgrounds for December were already filling up with snowbirds. Will start to panic about the vaccine situation in June if nothing on the horizon here in MO for those of us under 65. It’s really screwed up here. I’ve been trying to help an old friend who is 85 (Cancer survivor, minor stroke a year ago) and he can’t even get in for his first shot. Trying to get him on these multiple lists and on lists in outlying counties with their health departments. So hard to explain to someone who isn’t on a computer, no email, no text.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly:   @Dorothy A. Winsor:   Made my early morning to see it.  And I think Dionne is right here.

    The good journalists are taking a hard thwack at false equivalency.  The societal costs of that fallacy are becoming more and more apparent.

  24. 24.

    Elizabelle

    @zhena gogolia:  re not much of an audience for Al Franken:

    I think conservatives and liberals are fundamentally different in that respect, too.

    I suspect liberals/moderates seek out their own entertainment, whereas conservatives might be a passive audience for the rightwing guy.  And then stay with him during his (d)evolution from “funny” to “poisonous.”

    All the books on tape for the commutes, long and otherwise.  That’s always what my friends were mentioning.

    Or listening to music, because you don’t want to listen to some shock jock blowhard.

  26. 26.

    Quinerly

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I have been in tears over this. He’s one of my drinking, music fest, dancing buddies. Known him as a dear friend from our neighborhood for 30 years. His daughter supposedly signed him up on “a” list. Told him that she set it up so he would be contacted. I’m debating how much I should get involved in this. He’s very confused and doesn’t know how “they” will contact him. As for this multiple list thing, can’t make him understand. We are in the City of St Louis. I do know folks who have signed up in St. Francois and Franklin Counties and are getting emailed to come in for shots. No residency requirement. Need Ozark to weigh in on what he knows out where he is.

  27. 27.

    artem1s

    @zhena gogolia:

    Al Franken tried. Liberals didn’t tune in.

    Franken made a mistake in trying to recreate hate radio for the left.  I loved Franken’s writing but his was the only show I could stand to listen to for any length of time.  the rest of the day was screeching gasbags spreading just as much manure as Rush or Glenn Beck. It was pretty awful and wasn’t the answer to Clear Channel.  The answer would have been rescuing NPR and PBS from the Bothsider canyon they wandered into after 9/11 and Newt’s Contract on America

  29. 29.

    Baud

    One reason conservative talk radio works and liberal talk radio doesn’t is that conservatives have always understood who their enemy was. Liberals have historically vacillated between the Republicans and the Establishment as the true enemy.

  31. 31.

    Quinerly

    @Immanentize: yep. Team Minivan won out. The AWDs are hard to find… Especially without the really dressed up package with heated leather seats, moonroofs, TV monitors. I was told by several dealers here that I was looking for a unicorn… An AWD one on a dressed down one. Well, I found it and jumped on it. It’s the first year (I think) that all Siennas had all the safety stuff… Lane drift, etc. I’m rather excited about having that. It’s a little high mileage for a 2 year old vehicle (47,000 miles) but have a complete record of service at dealership. Guy that owned it trades every 2 years like clockwork. It has new brakes and I had them throw in new tires as part of the deal. Coopers. Debating about this 3 1/2-4″ lift package out of Prescott. It’s low to the ground. Would give me a little more clearance than my AWD Escape has.

  32. 32.

    Immanentize

    @Quinerly: great find!  I think you should get the lift package.  If your past trips are prologue, you will want it.  Then again, getting stuck in a rut in the back hills somewhere means you will meet interesting people.?? ?

  33. 33.

    SFAW

    @JMG:

    Since I was up early and had nothing better to do, I tried my luck at 8 on the dot. The application on the state website had already crashed, and it hasn’t come back in the times I’ve tried again

    Same thing happened to me. Stunned, I am. Who could have predicted that there’d be a metric shit-tonne of people trying to sign up?

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    B ‘n’ b … ‘n’ b.

    Utility workers investigating a gas leak at a Tennessee home called wildlife officials for assistance when they discovered a family of bears sleeping under the house. Source

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Quinerly: Need Ozark to weigh in on what he knows out where he is.

    Not a damn thing. I am contending with a black hole of info. Washington Co Health dept says, “Don’t ask us.” I did finally get signed up at our local hospital after a month of trying to get any kind of info but that was just luck in that I called and asked within 24 hours of them setting a site up. Haven’t heard anything since.

  36. 36.

    Quinerly

    @Immanentize: I’m all for the lift package. Just know so little about them. The Prescott company gets great reviews. All in all the parts aren’t that expensive. Just need to get some prices on install. The co will install it in Dec when I’m staying 6 nights near them. Will even give me a loaner. I am in a camper cabin during that time frame. If I did it, I kinda wanted it before the end of the trip, though.

  37. 37.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    I think that’s only part of the story. I think liberals have historically/traditionally been loath to scream endlessly about RWMFs, except on almost-top-10,000 blogs. And doing so on the air would not necessarily lead to higher ratings. RWMFs, having a perpetual sense of grievance and persecution, have always been much more comfortable with demonizing “the other.”

    Of course, the last four years may have changed that.

  38. 38.

    Betty Cracker

    @Quinerly: Sounds like a fun itinerary! I did a cross-country trip ages ago and have been itching to get back to the North Rim and Mesa Verde ever since.

  39. 39.

    frosty

    @Quinerly: Congrats on the new ride and the trip planning. Reservations are more difficult than a few years ago. We didn’t have a lot of luck with Florida state parks this year but we got a couple in Arizona in March and one in Moab (!) in the Spring.

  40. 40.

    Quinerly

    @OzarkHillbilly: Nothing happening in Crawford County for my river friends. She put them on the Franklin County list Mon since they are so near Sullivan. A bunch of 65-68 year olds here in Soulard went to Washington, MO and got in pretty eadily 2-3 weeks ago.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    @SFAW:

    Agree.  That’s why I said “one reason.”  I don’t think we can beat the right by trying to do their culture more effectively than they do it.

  42. 42.

    Quinerly

    @frosty: I hit Moab in March, 2017…Spring break and either Bike or Jeep Week. A nightmare. Didn’t even stop and skipped Arches. We had reservations but I just cancelled and kept on moving. I was at the end of 6500 mile (at that point) 6 week trip. Burned out.

    I have my Southern CO stops picked out for Sept but those SPs don’t let you book until 6 months out.

  44. 44.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Agree.  That’s why I said “one reason.”

    Reading comprehension* — how do it work?

    * Mine, of course, not yours.

  45. 45.

    Honus

    @Elizabelle: shorter: liberals tend to think for themselves and think critically.  Conservatives accept patently false statements if they like the source and the implications.

  46. 46.

    BruceFromOhio

    Limbaugh exemplified the morality, the intellectual integrity, and the substance of the contemporary conservative movement in the US

    Emphasis mine. The GQP must be defeated, or in ten years no one will recognize the place.

  47. 47.

    frosty

    @Quinerly: Lower Keys right now. I have to laugh at your “6 week burnout”.  We were OTR 3 months last year. We’’ve been out a month now and won’t get back until June. Or July if we get wanderlust eastbound from Great Sand Dunes NP.

    ETA I’ll probably start sending WG some pix soon. Got some good ones in the Everglades, and we’ve got about 10 more NPs on the itinerary.

  48. 48.

    jonas

    @Mai Naem mobile: ​
     

    Various liberal media groups have been trying to crack the Rush code for the left for decades, starting with Al Gore’s ill-fated Air America venture. The closest we ever got to a liberal Rush was maybe Keith Olbermann, but folks’ mileage varied a lot with him. He never had the kind of mass audience on the left Rush had on the right. Radio audiences seem to want either asshole, right-wing shock jocks in the mold of Rush, or thoughtful topical, current event discussions with progressive guests a la Terry Gross. There is no broad audience for asshole political leftist radio.

  50. 50.

    Booger

    @jonas: In the D.C. area, we were graced with Don Geronimo and Mike O’Meara for many years (they went off the air around 2005) and while they were generally typical dudebro-frat boy crass-mouthed a-holes, they both were genuinely funny, and actually quite lefty/liberal/progressive. I still miss them at evening drivetime; Don would occasionally come up with some Cole-caliber rants.

  51. 51.

    Quinerly

    @frosty: Great Sand Dunes NP for me in Sept!

    As for burn out on that 2017 trip… It started with the Spring break crowds at Zion in March… And a crabby Poco…. And just to have a beer at the end of the day, you have to order food with the beer. Kanab and St George, Utah really began to annoy me. I started ordering a slice of pie.. One bite and rest to go. But I digress…. ?

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    For those with access to it, note that all six seasons of White Collar now on the Roku channel.

    Dunno how it holds up; was an enjoyable enough enterprise at the time.

  55. 55.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Quinerly: A lift kit raises the body higher above the axles, the main advantage being it allows one to put larger tires on (there are other constraints such as wheel well size, I don’t know enough about the Sienna to say). Larger tires give the axles and differentials higher clearance too.

    Without larger tires you will still be less likely to get high centered in rough terrain, but most people take one look at that stuff and choose to go elsewhere.

    All of which is a long way of saying I don’t think you will get your money’s worth out of a lift kit.

  57. 57.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Mary G: Fucker Carlson looks like he’s having a mad in that still.

    Fucker, are you mad that Josh Hawley’s a piece of shit?

  60. 60.

    NotMax

    @jonas

    Left-leaning radio host Michael Jackson, although primarily aired in CA, was syndicated for some of the around 40 years he plied the trade. Had the mother of all Rolodexes, seemingly able to get through to world leaders at the drop of a hat.

  61. 61.

    Fair Economist

    @SFAW: I’m all signed up for demonizing the right. They’ve earned it. But I still don’t want to listen to complaints – I want to do something. And then there’s the endless repetition and the commercials. My mom has CNN on all the time and they’ve actually gotten pretty good now that the Republicans have shown their hand so but I still can’t stand it in more than small doses.

    Online I can comment and research so I’m OK. I’m not just sitting there listening to things I already know interspersed with adult diaper ads. Basically, I think liberals have lives – we have interesting things to do and we’re not up for endless repetition. Plus, even when faced with evil, I think we hate less. I just want the Republicans out of power and out of sight.

  62. 62.

    Another Scott

    @Elizabelle: A book that is near the top of my ToRead List:

    “Irony and Outrage: The Polarized Landscape of Rage, Fear, and Laughter in the United States” by Dannagal Goldthwaite Young.

    For almost a decade, journalists and pundits have been asking why we don’t see successful examples of political satire from conservatives or of opinion talk radio from liberals. This book turns that question on its head to argue that opinion talk is the political satire of the right and political satire is the opinion programming of the left. They look and feel like two different animals because their audiences are literally, two different animals

    I should move it up in the queue.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  63. 63.

    evodevo

    @Quinerly: ​
      Yep…my husband has been trying without success to help an elderly friend of ours (passive aggressive redneck Scot) get signed up – no computer, no smartphone, no nuttin’ – and when he asked him to name a convenient time/day, Glenn said “I got no time to deal with that!!” and that was the end of it…We’ve thrown up our hands and leaving it to his daughters to sort out…

  64. 64.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: There have been mixed results in my family down here. My mom got signed up on the new WalMart site; she has to go to Aurora, but that’s only 30 miles away, so no biggie. She’s getting her first shot next Wednesday, which is also my birthday. Yay! I’ve got hubby & I signed up on all the lists we have here, which is two hospitals and a health clinic, plus on the state site. I haven’t heard anything since I signed us up, but at least we’re in line. That’s what I’m telling everyone, get in line if you can.

  67. 67.

    Soprano2

    Did anyone else hear the story on Morning Edition today comparing the COVID response in California and Florida? So much missing info, starting with how DeSantis has had the state government lying about their testing and deaths almost from the start. I guess they picked CA because of the bullshit recall effort, so it can be “bothsides”.  If you only listened to that story you’d think the mask and shutdown orders in states and cities really didn’t have much effect at all! A highly misleading story if you ask me.

  68. 68.

    germy

    So Capitol Police called me today to come in for an interview.

    They were pretty cryptic on what it was about, but it turns out they have two ongoing investigations that I was witness to: one, the potential assault of an officer by a Member of Congress, the other, Andy Harris.

    — Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) February 17, 2021

    Interesting thread from Fuller. Investigations are continuing.

  70. 70.

    SFAW

    @Another Scott:

     to argue that opinion talk is the political satire of the right

    That’s a pretty moronic take. Rushbo, Levin, Hannity, the Fux crew in general, are not doing “political satire”; they’re screaming at the libs and the world in general, just with their “indoor voices” (usually).

    Looking at Ben Garrison’s “cartoons,” it’s pretty clear that their “humor” is just humorless, hate-filled screeching from self-pitying assholes.

    Satire? Not in this plane of reality

    ETA: Gulliver’s Travels is satire. RWMF “opinion talk” is not.

  71. 71.

    jonas

    @NotMax: I grew up in SoCal listening to Jackson — the absolute epitome of smart, urbane, Adlai Stevenson-style liberalism. Basically driven off the air by the mid-90s by the right-wing AM juggernaut.

  73. 73.

    Ken

    @NotMax: Had the mother of all Rolodexes, seemingly able to get through to world leaders at the drop of a hat.

    For useful informative interviews, or for “Hello? Is this Queen Elizabeth? Do you have Prince Albert in a can?

    (Not that there’s anything wrong with the latter. It can be newsworthy when a politician falls for a prank call, especially if they speak candidly.)

  74. 74.

    SFAW

    @germy:

    Fulcher’s office (he’s the ID Rep who “manhandled” the CP officer), spouted the (what-a-surprise-lemme-tellya) “fake news from the Luegenpresse” bullshit.

  77. 77.

    geg6

    @JMG: ​
     
    No, that will be PA. I have had no luck at all trying to get any type of appointment and on one site haven’t even been able to get an appointment to try to get an appointment. For some reason, the state does not have any sort of central signup site and in my county, which does not have an actual department of health, there is no government coordination at any level for anyone getting jabs. You are directed to a list and have to search for sites in your area and then go to their websites and try to sign up. I’ve tried everything in our area and surrounding counties. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. I have no idea what to do at this point.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    @SFAW: yup.

    right-wing media is people like Rush, Hannity, Carlson screeching at imagined caricatures of progressives – they ‘yell’ at exaggerated versions of us

    left-wing media is usually just…basic reporting on the latest RWNJ antics/screw-up.  We read/hear about the actual things they say and do

  80. 80.

    Mike in NC

    Pretty funny but totally predictable that Ted Cruz would hustle off to Cancun to sip Pina Coladas while most of his state shivered in the darkness.

  81. 81.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Just heard the news that Bob Dole has been diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer. He’s 97 or 98, and starts treatment Monday. I certainly didn’t vote for him in ‘96, but I’m very sad to hear this and wish him only the best possible outcome.

  82. 82.

    zhena gogolia

    @Mike in NC:

    What a disgusting excuse for a human being. I pray that I live to see his comeuppance, and that of Hawley, but then I realize this isn’t a script being written by Julian Fellowes.

  83. 83.

    kirbster

    For my fellow Massholes, the mass.gov  vax appointment scheduling website is up again.  For me, the closest place with available vaccine is about 70 miles away at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro.  I think I’ll wait a little longer and see if there will be additional deliveries of vaccine to some of the Barnstable county locations in the comming weeks.

  84. 84.

    rp

    @SFAW: I read that as “opinion talk is the political ‘satire’ of the right.” It’s their version of political humor, which, as you note, is not satire in any way shape or form. It’s a great illustration of the difference between the two sides.

  85. 85.

    karen marie

    @Mai Naem mobile:

     

    conservative talk radio was pretty much the only thing out there for at least a decade if not two.

     

    And yet somehow I avoided listening to it.

     

    People make choices. That RWNJs took over AM radio isn’t an indication of leftwing failure but, rather, of how truly terrible people will poison a vulnerable population for fun and profit.

  86. 86.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Mike in NC: The Twitters are having a lot of fun speculating that he’s flying back – the United Cancun-Houston flight for this afternoon has a “CRU, R.” on the standing-by-for-upgrade list. Unless that’s a completely different CRU, R.

  87. 87.

    Kristine

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    We agreed that our reaction (sore arm) is the same as for the first shot. I was surprised given all the unpleasant predictions

    Glad you got your shots. I’m in IL’s general distribution cohort, so I am guessing it will be a few more months.

    I’ve been reading about the reactions as well. All I can say is that Shingrix 2 knocked me flat for 2 days and excepting severe allergic reactions that’s about the worst I’ve heard about any of the Covid vaccines.

    I react to most vaccines anyway. The flu jab most always gets me. When I don’t react, I wonder if they’re working.

  88. 88.

    Barbara

    @geg6: Have you tried CVS?  They have a state by state run down of how the process is supposed to work and I think that they are making appointments in line with the state’s priorities.

    Virginia just moved to a centralized portal, and I signed up and got a confirmation number, but I don’t expect to actually receive a vaccine for months.  Still, there is no reason why they can’t build a database that includes contact information.  Indeed, it should have been done last fall, as soon as the EUA was granted.

  90. 90.

    Roger Moore

    @Jeffro:

    Ted Cruz flying to Cancun during the Great Texas Freeze has the potential to be the greatest self-own, ever.

    The biggest problem with Ted Cruz flying to Cancun is that he got round trip tickets.

  91. 91.

    karen marie

    @jonas:  There is more to life than politics or shitting on others. As irritating as NPR can be with their political coverage, they have lots of programming that covers lots of interesting topics, much of which tangentially educates listeners about what government is doing/not doing. More of that, please.

  92. 92.

    Roger Moore

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Liberals have really screwed up not having an answer to conservative talk radio.

    It’s not for lack of trying.  As I see it, there are two related problems:

    • The big advantage of conservative talk radio has been telling people what to think. Liberals are much less into that kind of unanimity- we love infighting- so there’s simply less market.
    • The real strength of conservative media is that the people who consume it have their brains turned to mush, which makes them incredibly vulnerable to scammers. That makes  conservative media an incredibly valuable advertising market.

    Without those two things, liberal talk radio just didn’t have a chance.

  93. 93.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elizabelle: ​
     

    Or listening to music, because you don’t want to listen to some shock jock blowhard.

    Or listening to music because you like listening to music.

  94. 94.

    jonas

    @Soprano2: It’s outrageous. Florida and other red states (Texas, Mississippi, the Dakotas, etc.) were complete clusterfucks; but no, it’s all gotta be about Newsom and Cuomo. If Abbot, DeSantis, and Noem and their states were subjected to the same scrutiny, they’d immolate within seconds.

    It’s just routine grading-on-the-curve for Republicans. Democrats are supposed to be competent grown-ups following the rules, so when they fuck up, it’s headline-worthy, while Republicans can behave like spoiled toddlers, fuck everything up, and walk away and the media just goes “oh, well. Whaddya gonna do?” Decades of working the refs has, well, worked.

  95. 95.

    karen marie

    @zhena gogolia: There are some great podcasts outside of politics. One that I’ve found entertaining is Rule of Three. It’s comedians talking about comedy and why things are funny – tradecraft.  I love listening to people who love their work talk about their field. And comedy!

  96. 96.

    Roger Moore

    @Quinerly: ​
     
    I’ve had good luck with Moab- and southern Utah in general- around Halloween. It’s after school is back in session, so there aren’t as many families taking vacation. It can get cold that time of year, but it’s usually a comfortable temperature for hiking and exploring. It’d rather worry about freezing overnight than roasting during the day. Plus the desert looks amazing if you’re lucky enough to see it after a snowfall.

  97. 97.

    geg6

    @SFAW: ​
     
    I’m not totally sure I agree with that. I think a lot of them think it’s satire. It’s not at all what satire actually is but not many of them have an actual working definition of what satire is. They see our satire, actual satire, as us being big meanies and so equate that with their constant whining and whinging and bullying as the same thing. They love nothing better than a false equivalency. I’m thinking that perhaps the author makes that case in the actual book. But perhaps not.

  98. 98.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @geg6: in my county, which does not have an actual department of health, there is no government coordination at any level for anyone getting jabs.

    I thought we (Delaware County in the other corner) were the only county in PA, possibly the US, that didn’t have a health department.
    Now that we need an actual health department, those functions for Covid purposes are apparently being handled by Chester County, the neighboring county to the west. They had a waiting list which I have put us on, and we get occasional “sorry, not yet” email updates.

    As for the actual physical location of vaccines, the Chesco website was giving us locations that were 30-40 minutes away. I was gearing up psychologically to take that drive when our turn finally came. But then I thought to go back to the state site and discovered that there’s a pharmacy only 3 blocks away that will have them.

    So yeah, it’s kind of a patchwork of administrative functions at the moment. But we do have a bare minimum of sufficient information.Also the state has pretty good tracking of county-by-county Covid and vaccination data. In general I think the PA state site is pretty good, even though they haven’t (yet?) centralized vaccination signup.

    Edit: I must admit that since Chesco is handling the signups for Delco, but their site doesn’t know about distribution sites in Delco, that I’m not sure how actually getting the vaccine is going to work.​​

  100. 100.

    geg6

    @Barbara: ​
     
    That was the first place I tried because my insurance is through Aetna and John gets all his prescriptions at CVS. No appointments or vaccines available so far and no indication as to when they might be.

  101. 101.

    Roger Moore

    @Quinerly:

    Kanab and St George, Utah really began to annoy me.

    Yeah, the national parks in Utah are starting to get crazy, and Zion is the worst.  If you want to get away from people, you need to go much deeper into the wild than you used to.  That’s why I like going into Grand Staircase-Escalante NM and the San Rafael Swell.  The crowds start to thin out when you turn off the paved roads, and they get really thin when you get on something that requires 4WD.

  102. 102.

    geg6

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: ​
     
    There is no one coordinating anything here. Surrounding counties are full of complete assholes just like my own and do not have health departments either (except Allegheny, which seems to only be coordinating for their own residents). Lawrence County, Washington County…just as backward and wingnut infested as my own Beaver County, so of course local government doesn’t work.

  103. 103.

    Miss Bianca

    @Quinerly: Ooh, Great Sand Dunes in September…I think I may try to persuade a riding buddy that we really need to take our horses down there for a camping/riding trip. That would be a beautiful (ie, warm but not too hot) time to visit! And of course, there is Joyful Journey Hot Springs on the way down or back!

  105. 105.

    Geminid

    @Quinerly: If you decide to take a motel break when you are in Southern Colorado, I found the Lamplighter Inn in Alamosa to be a good stop. It may allow pets. The Inn (just a two story 50s motel with nice brick and greenstone detailing) is downtown, three blocks from the large city park set along the Rio Grand. Alamosa is a great place for flat walking, with some nice bars and a bookstore.

  106. 106.

    Roger Moore

    @Soprano2: ​
     
    At least here in the LA area, the biggest problem has been poverty, especially crazy high housing prices. Too many essential workers live in extremely crowded homes, and when they get sick they can’t afford to stay home. The result is that when one of them gets sick, they can’t isolate and wind up infecting their whole household. The rest of the household can’t stay home, so they keep going to work and wind up infecting their coworkers. The coworkers have the same kind of housing situation, so the process repeats. We really need to have some kind of free, out-of-home isolation/quarantine location to break the cycle. Oh, and at least a couple of weeks of sick pay.

  108. 108.

    Miss Bianca

    @Geminid: Alamosa is one of my favorite towns, for some reason. Unpretentious college town with some great second-hand stores, a really nice coffee shop, a brewery…and the river walk. If only they were a little less uptight about MJ shops, they’d be practically perfect!

  109. 109.

    Ken

    @jonas: Another way to look at it is that the Democrats sometimes fail to deliver on their promise of responsible, functional government.  But the Republicans always deliver on their promise that government is a problem and will make your life worse.

  110. 110.

    Peale

    @geg6: In New York, the governor announced two weeks ago that starting Monday, people with co-morbidities would be eligible for vaccination appointments starting February 15. Unfortunately, no one in my county appears to have gotten that memo. Not that I was expecting to get an appointment this week, but I figure I might as well try. Was screened out of all the pharmacy based sites as “ineligible” even though I am eligible. The county itself is still only vaccinating front liners and first responders and teachers with only 400 vaccines available for everyone else. This week 1,200 slots available for everyone. Which means at this rate, it will only be 300 weeks before everyone is vaccinated.

  112. 112.

    raven

    This dude lived here, went to law school and played in local bands. 

     

    AMERICUS, Ga.— Over the past three decades, as the state around him turned ever more resolutely Republican, W. McCall Calhoun Jr. remained an outspoken and unwavering liberal. He gave money to Democrats, ran for office as a Democrat and zealously championed Democratic policies in social circles that were far from sympathetic. If friends admitted they voted for Donald J. Trump, his reaction could be blistering.
    “He was hard core, there’s no doubt about it,” said Dr. Michael Busman, a physician who has known Mr. Calhoun for years. “He wouldn’t even want to talk to you if you were Republican.”
    But last year, as the progressive movement in Georgia was on the cusp of historic electoral triumph, Mr. Calhoun, a small-town lawyer whose family had long roots in the state, suddenly abandoned the Democrats. And not only that, he pledged to kill them.

  113. 113.

    Geminid

    @Roger Moore: I hope Cruz took that Cancun vacation. Just the news that he might have has got the twitter wags going. One said, “Ted Cruz likes to tell people,’come and take it.’ He must mean his job.”

  114. 114.

    Jackie

    I’m in Haywood county NC, our sign up is easy, vaccine only available through our county health department. They call when they have a vaccine for you. Yesterday we got ac call at 3:30, lots of leftovers if we could come right now. Efficient drive through with a ton of volunteers. I got Moderna at 4. My dog was a big hit. I am giddy with the thought of doing routine needed things soon without feeling like a daredevil.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @Gin & Tonic: ​
     
    The Escalante/Boulder area is wonderful, but the stuff right along SR-12 in that area is starting to get pretty busy. I went last September, and even during the week, all the trailhead parking along SR-12 was packed. It’s not Zion, or even Capitol Reef, but you definitely don’t have it to yourself anymore unless you get off the “Scenic Byway” roads like SR-12 and onto the “Scenic Backway” roads. Even some of those, like Hole-in-the-Rock Road are getting pretty busy.

  116. 116.

    Another Scott

    @SFAW: It’s tough to distill a couple of hundred pages into a sentence or two.  Like you, I don’t accept that one side mirrors the other, but I’m going to check the book out with an open mind.  There must be something to it – but we can argue about the extent…

    (She also does standup, so she understands a bit about what people think is funny and how that side of our brain works.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  118. 118.

    Jeffro

    @Roger Moore:Yeah, the national parks in Utah are starting to get crazy, and Zion is the worst.  If you want to get away from people, you need to go much deeper into the wild than you used to.

    Yikes.  We are in the early stages of planning a Flagstaff-to-Bozeman family road trip for late summer, which would incorporate stops at the ‘Big 5’ (including Zion, obvs).  Are they getting like Yellowstone-crowded?

  119. 119.

    BruceFromOhio

    @CarolDuhart2: ​

    @WereBear: ​
      MrsFromOhio, too, she’s a long-time subscriber to Steph. I can only take Miller in small doses, she starts with that damned bell sound effect and I exit. One thing for certain, MFO takes NO crap from anyone (including me) shopping that bothsiderism or whataboutism crap, and I’m confident she gained that skill listening to Stephanie Miller.

    I’m much more a Rachel Maddow listener, I wish she had a radio show. And Kai Ryssdal, who does have a radio show, albeit a short one. I think the “left” has a presence, it just looks and sounds very different from the steady stream of hate, fear and vitriolic “othering” promoted by Limbaugh, et al.

  120. 120.

    Geminid

    @Miss Bianca: Alamosa is also near two wildlife refuges. One is a few miles east of town, the other 20 miles NW, adjoining  the National Park. Lots of migratory birds stop in. Alamosa has a Crane Festival in April.

  121. 121.

    Miss Bianca

    @raven: Jesus, what is it with white folks and gun nuttery? Any attempt to regulate access to the Precious just turns a certain segment of them into frothing lunatics. I see it at the local level in my county. Just blows my mind.

  122. 122.

    artem1s

    @Immanentize:

    I’d settle for early-days CNN with Lynne Russell.  News readers again.

    I miss Daniel Schorr, RIP.  NPR has been lost in the weeds since he left.  I can’t imagine what he would have thought of 45.  But I’m sure he would have pitched a holy fit over the GOP Senate cowardice in not standing up to that tinpot dictator.  He was the last true journalist NPR had.

  123. 123.

    piratedan

    @Jeffro: you could try going the “back way” out of Flagstaff up onto the Res and go to the North Rim, Monument Valley and then to Staircase via Page.  A tad less travelled.  Depending on time, you could include Canyon De Chelle and Four Corners or even hit Arches and Canyonlands instead, it’s not as if you don’t have a boatload of choices in Az and Utah that is worth the time.

    To be honest, I find the Painted Desert/Petrified Forest National Park to be seriously underrated as well.

  125. 125.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Roger Moore:  I guess that must have changed. Last time there I hiked in to Calf Creek Falls and saw two other people all day. And it was summer.

    Still recall a trip to that area in March quite a while back. Hiked up the ridge that forms the west side of Capitol Reef (Muley Twist trail, maybe?) and was on the top when a storm rolled in. I heard thunder and thought standing on the top of a ridge was pretty dumb, so made my way down as best I could as it started snowing. Set up my tent, and when I woke up in the morning it was covered with a couple of inches of snow and my water bottle was frozen.

  126. 126.

    Jeffro

    @piratedan: those are some very cool suggestions, thank you!

    we’re still trying to figure it all out, but I think we’ve got a good general plan.  Probably about 10 days, start to finish.

  127. 127.

    frosty

    @piratedan: Petrified Forest and the North Rim are on our route. Skipping Bryce, Zion, and South Rim, which we saw years ago, but we’ll hit Arches and Canyonlands. One I’m really looking forward to is Great Basin in Nevada.

  128. 128.

    Roger Moore

    @Jeffro:

    I haven’t gone into Zion seriously in years, and it’s only gotten more crowded since.  I’ve been told that some of the most popular hiking trains are now more or less nose to tail for their whole length.  Even the East Mesa, which used to be virtually deserted, is now busy.

    Some of the other parks are nearly as bad.  Arches has started to turn people away when the parking in the park is full, and during the high season that happens by 9 AM or so.  I went to see Delicate Arch at sunset (the best time to photograph it) and it was amazingly crowded.  It was actually hard to get a good picture until right before sunset because there was literally a line of people waiting to take selfies under the arch.  Bryce is also pretty bad, though that’s mostly along the rim.

    There are still some good things to do, though they generally involve a lot more hiking.  In Zion, you can get off SR-9 and out of the main canyon and go up onto Kolob terrace and the finger canyons there.  I think the East and West Mesa trails are also not too bad.  In Arches, you can get into the park really early and hike the primitive trail in Devil’s Garden, which is not too crowded.  The ranger-led tour of the Fiery Furnace is also wonderful.  In Bryce, hikes down into the canyon are generally not too crowded; the crowds tend to stay at the easy places along the rim.  Capitol Reef and Canyonlands aren’t as bad, though even there you might want to find a less crowded part of the park if you want some real solitude.

  129. 129.

    Another Scott

    @raven:

    Small world. But…

    No he's not "a walking embodiment of his state’s political contradictions." He's a guy who had a psychotic break.

    This is voyeurism, not political analysis. There is nothing to learn from this. https://t.co/TY7Pw3UyVa

    — Dan Froomkin/PressWatchers.org (@froomkin) February 18, 2021

    I generally agree.

    (I’m reminded of the time that Robert Novak hit a pedestrian in DC and was stopped by a bicyclist. He said he didn’t know he hit him (even though the guy was splayed across his windshield). And it was true, because he had a brain tumor that was diagnosed 4 days later.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131.

    Ohio Mom

    Had my first Covid shot this morning at 8:00. Now I am exhausted because I couldn’t fall sleep last night — worried that I’d oversleep — then I woke up before six, an hour before I needed to.

    The big hangup in scheduling was that my network, University of Cincinnati Health, had a temporary shortage of vaccine for first shots. But once they got their shipment, I had no problem logging on to my patient portal and scheduling my jab.

  132. 132.

    Miss Bianca

    @BruceFromOhio: Guns. The right of white people to have unlimited access to firepower, whenever, however, and whatsoever they choose, shall not be infringed in any way, no matter whether they actually intend to take advantage of it or not. There’s a guy who’s declared for CD-3 as a a Democrat here (just days ago – hasn’t bothered to get in touch with the local party), ex-Marine, who claims to be on board with the Democratic agenda *except* for – wait for it –  gun legislation. Access to guns must never, under any circumstances, be denied to white people. It’s their God-given Constitooshunal right. I don’t know how the fuck we combat that mentality.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I guess that must have changed. Last time there I hiked in to Calf Creek Falls and saw two other people all day. And it was summer.

    I went in 2019 and hiked to Upper Calf Creek Falls, which is a much less popular hike, and there were more people than that.  The parking area for the lower falls was completely full, as was the campground.  I think a lot of people are like me; they’ve given up on Zion and Bryce because of the crowding and have moved on to Grand Staircase.

    Hiked up the ridge that forms the west side of Capitol Reef (Muley Twist trail, maybe?) and was on the top when a storm rolled in.

    Probably the Strike Valley Overlook; it uses the same trailhead as Upper Muley Twist.  The view is fantastic.  On my last trip, I went to the Hall’s Creek Overlook, which is further down the fold and overlooking it from the east rather than the west.  It’s similarly spectacular and pleasantly empty.  We had to go places like that to really get away from the crowds.

  135. 135.

    hueyplong

    @Jackie: Your post prompted me to look up my group in NC.

    I must be last in line (Group 5).

    On the upside, my circumstances probably explain why I haven’t gotten COVID yet.

  136. 136.

    Ken

    @Roger Moore: The crowds start to thin out when you turn off the paved roads, and they get really thin when you get on something that requires 4WD.

    As we’ve seen in any number of horror movies…

    I agree about the beauty of the San Rafael Swell. It’s also geologically interesting because of the superimposed streams (cutting across the swell, because they were there first).

  137. 137.

    gvg

    @Peale: ​
      In Florida, your doctor has to arrange the vaccine if you have risk conditions. You don’t decide yourself, and the pharmacies and grocery stores don’t handle that, hospitals do. They are publicizing that aspect enough so people don’t know. I know because my boss got her shot that way. She has always had a lot of health issues and so does her husband, so it was justified. I have heard nothing about this on the news, but she notified us why she had to leave work one day and I asked how she got it. This actually makes sense to me.
    Call your doctor and ask, or check with a big hospital.

  138. 138.

    topclimber

    @Baud: Do not fret so over numbers. We are always the number we are meant to be, with each and every post. This fact gives me serenity.

    All hail Watergirl.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: There is another western migratory bird stop at the Bitter Lakes National Wildlife Refuge. It’s just outside Roswell, NM. I’ve camped at Bottomless Lakes State Park, 10 miles east of Roswell. Roswell also has a 15-foot tall green alien holding up a Dunkin’ Donuts sign.

  140. 140.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, Upper is where I went. Had no crowds, maybe I was just lucky.

    The Muley Twist trip was before digital cameras. I have photos somewhere, should probably scan them.

  141. 141.

    Another Scott

    @raven: You’d have to take that up with him.

    But just looking at the raw statistics, it’s very rare for normal people to go from being on one side to suddenly wanting to kill that same side.  It seems unlikely that there’s some larger message for the rest of us in his story.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  143. 143.

    Quinerly

    @frosty: late back to the thread. Capitol Reef NP was actually my favorite in Utah on that trip. Utah has beautiful state parks too… Goosenecks, Kodachrome, Coral Pink Sand Dunes, Goblin Valley, Dead Horse… I also loved the Bluff, Utah area. Valley of the Gods (Mexican Hat) near Monument Valley is really cool. I was the only one there in March, 2017. Took that Moki Dugway drive down. Love that road.

  146. 146.

    geg6

    @gvg: ​
     
    My John, about to turn 74, just had two doctor appointments recently, one with his primary doctor and one with his oncologist (he is a prostate cancer survivor). He also has recovered from a minor stroke a couple of years ago. Neither doctor had any idea about how to get a jab other than searching the state website. It’s a fucking clusterfuck here.

  147. 147.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: spending the night in Alamosa in September. One of only 2 hotel nights on September trip thru CO. The other hotel night is in the funky Marble Canyon Lodge in Northern AZ near Lee’s Ferry. I’m looking for someone who has actually camped on the beach at Lake Powell… Specifically the Lone Rock Beach on the Utah side.

  148. 148.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: I’ve also camped at Santa Rosa Lake State Park, near Santa Rosa, NM. The tent sites are on a ridge. They are very windy, but there is an eight mile horsetrail loop nearby that is nice to walk. I once saw a big owl glide by there just after dawn, about seven feet off the ground. Saw him again the next morning.

    Aside from the deep artesian Blue Hole, which is a big scuba diving destination, Santa Rosa and the State Park nearby are not too special. Except for the Comet II restaurant, which features some really good chile as well as other New Mexican fare. It’s just a mile or so off of I-40, and makes a good stop for through travellers.

  149. 149.

    Quinerly

    @Roger Moore: love that area. Pretty much desolute for me on that March, 2017 trip. Roads to myself. Some snow. Neat cabins in Escalante… Then I was in Torrey. Love that Capitol Reef area.

  150. 150.

    Quinerly

    @piratedan: this is cool! Thank you. I have been book marking food and microbreweries in Tucson. I have a friend in Cerrillos, New Mexico who is from Tucson but I doubt I can get her to make the drive, plus I will be coming off of 2 months in her area. JoJo las Orejas and I are camping in the van for 3 nights at Catalina SP..  12/10, 12/11, 12/12 and then move on to Lost Dutchman SP for our Phoenix base. I want to go to Phoenix by way of Globe up to Roosevelt Dam and down thru Tortilla Flat to Apache Junction. Road looks rough out of Roosevelt/Tonto NM area. I know it was closed at one point. Haven’t gotten that far into micro planning that trek other than I do want to stop in Globe after I leave Tucson area making my way on back roads to Phoenix area. Will email WG for your email! Thanks again!

  151. 151.

    citizen dave

    @Elizabelle: Listening to the TED talk right now.  It’s OK.  But for me it just comes down to stupid and not-stupid.  The Republicans have become, on the whole (there are exceptions and whole areas of competent ones–the commerce republicans still exist) the party of Stupid.

    I don’t think it’s just ambiguity vs. certainty.  One can divide people in a million ways and make the facts fit the construct.  TED Talks…

  152. 152.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: this is great! Reading from bottom up and Alamosa is one of my only motel/hotel stops immediately after primitive camping at Great Sand Dunes and before Navajo SP camping. I’m trying to work Silverton in after Navajo. Not sure I can make it work. Thanks!

  154. 154.

    piratedan

    @Quinerly: well you’ll only be about 20-30 minutes away from me if you’re centering around Catalina SP.  I’m on the west side of the interstate out by the Camino Del Cerro and Sweetwater trailheads in case you’re doing hiking.  Also not far from Sagauro National Park West.  Also out here is the Arizona/Sonora Desert Museum, which is always worth a look.  Just drop a line and if nothing else, can steer you to some modestly cool places to see and eat.

  155. 155.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: love the Comet. Haven’t camped at Santa Rosa but my first night on the road with JoJo after leaving 4 Corners in March, 2020 was the Motel 6 there.? He was a tiny puppy but already in the protection mode. Didn’t have chance to grab breakfast the next AM. Covid was getting serious and I was just trying to get home. I had been up off and on on the Reservation for 12 days, Window Rock, Chinle, and Gallop. Everyone was hacking and coughing, running fevers. Seems like years ago now.

  157. 157.

    frosty

    @Quinerly: We couldn’t get a reservation at Kodachrome but we’ve got a site at an RV Park nearby. In Nevada it’s first come at Cathedral Gorge and Valley of Fire. Crossing our fingers for those.

  159. 159.

    Quinerly

    @frosty: this is good to know. This camping in a mini van is all new to me. I certainly am not comparing to your big rig but I think this will do the job for the dog and me. I really doubt I will cook that much but do have a Coleman camp stove. My reason for doing this is for the experience and see how JoJo does. Then maybe something bigger in the future… Just don’t know. I’m big on restaurants and bars… That checking in somewhere for big lunch middle of the day after bopping around. Then I like to bop around some more, catch a local HH for a beer or two and then in for the night. Glad to hear good things about the parks. Have you stayed at Patagonia Lake SP or Dead Horse Ranch SP? They look nice. I’m at Patagonia after Chiricahua NM and Dead Horse Ranch as a base for Sedona, Jerome, Prescott just before Christmas 5 nights (camper cabin).

  160. 160.

    Denali

    @geg6:  My friend and her husband got appointments at the Butler Hospital site. They live in Cranberry. Don’t know how far that is for you.

  161. 161.

    StringOnAStick

    Last summer saw such a huge increase in visitors for all level of parks everywhere thanks to Covid; I wonder if visitor numbers will drop once people can fly for vacations again and maybe even leave the US?  We have a free European river cruise as part of my husband’s retirement package but it has to be used this year and I’m wondering if we’ll be able to given the state of worldwide and local vaccinations.

    I remember listening to Air America; I liked Al’s show and learned a bit from it but after his show was Randi Rhodes and she just seemed like every purer-than-thou annoying ranting lefty I’ve ever known; willing to run over others verbally and not listen to anyone but themselves.  I stopped listening completely when I realized all it did was rile me up with a lot of heat and not much light.  People like my RW dad love hate radio because hate is a force that gives him purpose, plus they confirm all his biases and he truly loves that.  I can barely talk to him anymore before he starts getting angry about incredibly minor, stupid things;  I am an enemy liberal and apparently now that overrules that I am one of his kids.

  163. 163.

    piratedan

    @Quinerly: Patagonia Lake is in my neck of the woods…

    https://azstateparks.com/patagonia-lake/

    It’s a perfectly low key state park off the beaten path, the scenic drive from Tucson thru Sonoita to Patagonia is very pretty.  Patagonia has a rep as a small-town artsy-craftsy place and they have a quaint little town park on the main drag, Sonoita is more horse country but there is/are vineyards scattered throughout that area and in nearby Elgin.  If you go east from Sonoita, that will take you to Whetstone and Karchner Caverns State Park which are supposedly awesome.

  164. 164.

    Roger Moore

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Yeah, Upper is where I went. Had no crowds, maybe I was just lucky.

    Upper Muley twist still doesn’t have much in the way of crowds.  It’s exactly the kind of off the beaten track place I’m talking about.  The road to get there is dirt, and the trailhead is 3 miles of 4×4 trail off that road.  You can park just off the road and hike that 3 miles- it’s relatively flat and not too bad a walk- but it tends to keep the crowds down.

  165. 165.

    Roger Moore

    @Quinerly: ​
     
    I haven’t gone there in March; it’s possible that the threat of snow is enough to keep the crowds down. I know it’s much quieter at the end of October than the beginning, so I imagine it’s pretty quiet before the high season starts. I remember visiting Torrey one year just as the season was ending. The motel where we were staying was about to close, and the attached market was selling everything before closing down for the winter. Things get very quiet after that.
    My favorite place to stay in that area is the Boulder Mountain Lodge in Boulder. I know the restaurant there (Hell’s Backbone Grill) closes down sometime in November, with the only exception being a big Thanksgiving meal. I think more stuff than that stays open in Torrey and Escalante, but they do largely shut down for the winter.

  166. 166.

    Roger Moore

    @StringOnAStick: ​
     

    I wonder if visitor numbers will drop once people can fly for vacations again and maybe even leave the US?

    The numbers have been going up long-term. People really love the park system, which is one of the reasons Trump’s move to shrink the National Monuments was so awful. The numbers may drop some when people can go back to vacations that involve being around lots of strangers, but they will likely still be higher than pre-pandemic.

  168. 168.

    Quinerly

    @piratedan: thread long dead but if you do come back… Several weeks ago, I booked 12/8 and 12/9 at Patagonia. Will be coming off of 12/5 at Chiricahua National Monument camping and 2 nights in a hotel 12/6 and 12/7 in Sierra Vista. I started researching that whole area of AZ below I 10 and east of I 19 was really interested. Bopping around in Bisbee, Elgin, Sonorita, Sierra Vista, Benson, Green Valley, Tubac, Tumacácori. Thanks for all your suggestions and comments.

  169. 169.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Elizabelle: Oh yeah, I listened to many Books on Tape (later, CD) during my 30 min commute.  Got the books from the library.  I would have shot myself in the head rather than listen to talk radio. Even listening to Morning Edition on NPR was hard as I became more and more sensitive to how the news was being slanted towards Rs on a supposedly neutral/liberal station.

  170. 170.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @SiubhanDuinne: I saw that too.  He’s 97 according to the news reports I saw.  I do know he fought bravely in WWII in Italy (which is where his arm/hand was so severely injured) so he has to be quite elderly.  I looked up Stage 4 and it means the cancer has metastasized, so not looking good at all.

  171. 171.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @StringOnAStick: Yeah, I can relate.  My husband and I have $1,000+ in prepaid hotel reservations in Paris which expire at the end of this year and I’m not at all sure we’ll be able to use them. (We had a long-planned trip to the Loire Valley and Paris scheduled for July of last year, sigh).

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