Reuters is reporting that the US Senate – the world’s greatest deliberative country club – has passed the American Recovery Act!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Senate on Saturday passed President Joe Biden’s $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief plan in a party-line vote after an all-night session that saw Democrats battling among themselves over jobless aid and the Republican minority failing in attempts to push through some three dozen amendments.
The final bill includes $400 billion in one-time payments of $1,400 to most Americans, $300 a week in extended jobless benefits for the 9.5 million people thrown out of work in the crisis, and $350 billion in aid to state and local governments that have seen the pandemic blow a hole in their budgets.
The Senate voted 50-49, with no Republicans voting in favor, on what would be one of the largest stimulus packages in U.S. history.
Since the Senate passed version differs from the version the House passed first and sent over to the Senate, the Senate version will now have to go back to the House for a vote. The House has three options:
- Pass the Senate version
- Amend the Senate version back to the original House version and send it back.
- Reject the Senate version.
I expect that Speaker Pelosi is going to go with option 1.
Despite having to wait and see what the House does, I do believe this is what President Biden refers to as a big fucking deal.
Open thread!
Cheryl Rofer
Yay us! Now on to voting rights!
Nicole
Hooray! Good work, Donkeys. And yes, now on to voting rights.
Cheryl Rofer
22 Republican senators are up for election in 2022.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer:
Cheryl Rofer
Jinchi
I agree. Pelosi will push for a vote to straight-up pass the Senate version at the earliest possible moment.
jonas
Every check should come with a memo: “Courtesy of Joe Biden and the Democratic Party. Every single Republican in Washington voted against this.” If Trump could put his fucking third-grader scribble crayon signature on the earlier round of checks, Biden should do this.
Craigie
Is it too soon to be disappointed?
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: @Adam L Silverman: Not to imply you’re a kid o Venerable Elder…
Baud
????
Steeplejack (phone)
More good news:
Confusion to our enemies!
Baud
@Craigie:
It’s too late. You should have been disappointed weeks ago.
PsiFighter37
@Cheryl Rofer: Too bad some of our best targets will be seats (NC, PA) where the incumbents who voted against it are retiring.
Re: what Pelosi will do – simple, same thing she did with version 1 of the ACA…pass what the Senate did. I expect that the ‘Squad’ and others will squawk about the minimum wage, but in the end they will vote for it. Wilmer did in the end, so will they.
This is big stuff. I hope Democrats are already planning their fall reconciliation package with stuff that will help for the longer term (as well as any additional aid that may be required, assuming we haven’t crushed the pandemic by the end of the summer).
Adam L Silverman
@Jinchi: The only question is who goes on MSNBC to complain? Members of the House Progressive Caucus? That lying shitbird Waleed Shahid from Justice Democrats? Everyone’s favorite little psycho, Briahna Joy Gray?
Adam L Silverman
@Craigie: Never! In fact you should have been pre-disapointed!
patroclus
Hoyer says Tuesday to enact it.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
I was pleasantly surprised last night when the Chris Hayes show seemed to take everything in stride. We’ll see.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman:
Another Scott
Yay!!
I’ll look later, but which Teabagger didn’t vote and why?
In Ye Olden Tymes, the different versions would go to a Conference Committee with members appointed by the leaderships to hammer out the differences and then that version would be voted on by both bodies. Sometimes the Conference fixed it, sometimes the committee members would load it up with obscure pet pork provisions that couldn’t get added otherwise.
It’s probably faster for the House to just vote on what the Senate passed (so that the Senate doesn’t have to/get to vote again (and mess it up some more)).
Another good day for Joey and Team D!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Jinchi
@Steeplejack (phone): How are they supposed to praise him without using his name?
scav
@Cheryl Rofer: That and isn’t it a generally popular measure overall in polls?
It’s sorta that “many Americans” somehow becoming a single person when pushed for exactly who game that Psaki plays with reporters.
Baud
@patroclus:
?
I remember watching the ACA get enacted. That was high drama. This will be fun too.
Hildebrand
While the sausage making isn’t pretty, and Manchin is a pain in the ass, this is going to do a lot of good – and that is the most important consideration at the end of the day.
This isn’t a small win – and those who try to minimize the good it will do really need to go find some bloody perspective.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Damn, that’s a dumb comment.
PsiFighter37
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ugh. She and Tlaib are the most intellectually dishonest members of the ‘Squad’. I also wonder why Ayanna Pressley, who was and is a serious legislator, chooses to affiliate herself with folks who make specious comparisons like this far too much.
Adam L Silverman
@PsiFighter37: Actually the best play on the minimum wage is to have to deal with it separately. Despite the act from the movie Clueless as homage to John McCain voting to preserve the ACA, Sinema’s statement was right on the politics. Move it as a stand alone through regular order, make the Republicans visibly own their refusal to raise it because they can’t hide behind the parliamentarian, and then hang it around their necks and beat them up with it over and over and over until the 2022 elections.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: IIhan Omar already tweeted how this was worse than the version signed by the ? ?.
West of the Rockies
@Baud:
I attended Our Sisters of Perpetual Disappointment as a school kid.
Anonymous At Work
@Adam L Silverman: Have you ever known the Justice Democrats to stop complaining?
oatler.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/mar/05/seth-meyers-democrats-own-opposition-party
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Hayes, despite his actual political preference and his abhorrent booking decisions, is actually quite pragmatic.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
to which I would add: the trump tax cuts for hedge funders of 2017, I think zero Dems?
Kent
WTF is she talking about? The GOP compromise was for $600 billion and that was what? 6 Senators? There wasn’t even any guarantee that they could deliver GOP votes for $600 billion.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Republican compromise was a $6 billion bill that had almost none of what is in the American Recovery Act in it. And, had the GOP gotten the compromise, they still would have voted against it in unison. I’m beginning to think that Congresswoman Omar has a reading comprehension problem.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Steeplejack (phone):
They must really enjoy eating shit from Trump, don’t they?
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Dan Sullivan from Alaska. He had to fly back to Alaska on Friday because their was a sudden death in the family.
Kent
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And not one fucking “persuadable” swing voter in the entire country cares about any of that. Or even remembers it.
Freemark
Received my first Moderna shot yesterday. Feels like a minor bee sting right now. I was also able to get appointments for my parents for Wed. They’ll be getting Pfizer. They’ll actually be fully vaccinated before me. So much will be start to be lifted.
My brother is an anti-mask anti-vaccine Trumper who lives with my parents so I have been and still am worried he’ll bring it home. I also am with my parents a lot so was worried I might bring it home from my retail job. With a noticeable increase in maskless people hanging around me at work and the new variants I took leave from Target from 2/15 to 4/11. I’m glad they let me do that and I was financially able to do it.
westyny
@Adam L Silverman:
Disappointment is fungible . . . But, Yay us!
Another Scott
I saw this last night:
I don’t know the reasons for the changes, but Joey M being able to spin it as cutting taxes probably helps him in WV. I wonder if the money will be a wash for most people on the expanded UI.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: I agree he mostly keeps his inner rose-tweeting grad student in check, but every once in a while he lets that flag fly. I wish there were some kind of accountability for his truly horrid segments on Tara Reade, and I suspect he’s the reason Medhi Hassan will be generating idiotically useful (for the other side) clips for the next couple of months at least.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Jinchi:
“Former Guy” works.
Baud
@Kent:
You know who loves the distraction she’s providing? Manchin and Sinema.
PsiFighter37
@Adam L Silverman: Sure, but she had no reason to do her stupid little thumbs-down show – unless she thought that intentionally infuriating her base of support was a smart thing to do. No swing / center-right voter in AZ will remember this in 3.5 years’ time. I agree that her argument makes sense.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Actually, the original version of the ACA got one Republican vote – the Republican who had won William Jefferson’s New Orleans seat after he had stashed cash in his freezer. However, I do not think he voted for the reconciliation bill that came through right after to fix a few things up.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: I think it is very important that she is in Congress. Having a voice of someone who was a refugee in that chamber is exceedingly important. But it does seem that she refuses to listen to the people she’s hired to prep her, they do a terrible job of prepping her, or it is some combination. My guess is that it is the former. She has her beliefs and she’s not going to veer from them. Her comments during the 2020 primaries about caucuses indicate very clearly she doesn’t understand how elections should work.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: the attempts to repeal O’Care blew back in the GOP’s faces in ’18, and the trump tax cuts give Dems a useful counterpoint when they’re asked about this partisan bill
Adam L Silverman
@Anonymous At Work: I’ve never known them to do anything constructive other than grift. I’d pay good money to see the IRS take a deep dive into their operations.
Baud
@Another Scott:
As I understand it, the tax benefit is actually a very good thing.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: And all 6 of those senators would have still voted against it.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks.
Moscow Mitch and the GOP refusing to allow proxy voting in the Senate bites them. Whodathunkit??
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
One thing about this bill unlike the prior Covid bills: I haven’t heard anything about corporate pork in it.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Everyone knew his vote wouldn’t have mattered. I don’t think anyone was bitten.
Sister Golden Bear
Republicans are perfectly fine with cancel culture when trans people are the ones they want cancelled and never miss a chance to try to hurt us.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Manchin, Shaheen, Coons, and a few of the other “moderate” Democrats are convinced that this counter-cyclical (Keynesian) spending will somehow both overheat the economy and the expanded benefits at $400 through October would lead people receiving them to decide they don’t want to and don’t have to go back to work. There is no factual basis for either of those beliefs. All of the evidence, especially after the 2017 GOP-Trump counter-cyclical tax cuts plus all the stimulus to farmers and everyone else hurt by his tariffs when the economy was much stronger did not cause overheating. And all the evidence shows that if you provide more support and stability to those who are unemployed or underemployed, they use it to stabilize themselves and their families enough to be able to go out and find work/better paying work.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hassan is actually the single best interviewer that MSNBC/NBC has. So despite his own priors, he’s very good at that.
Adam L Silverman
@Sister Golden Bear: The problem, as I know you’re tracking, is that they’re pushing this stupidity at the state level. So it is going to cause a lot of damage and run up a lot of litigation costs that will have to be borne by tax payers.
Geminid
@Cheryl Rofer: Voting rights reform is critical. At John Lewis’s funeral, President Obama was serious when he stated that if a voting rights measure were to be blocked by the filibuster, the filibuster must go. I would suggest that an effective filibuster busting strategy would be to bring several pieces of broadly popular legislation to floor votes, in addition to Voting Rights reform. When the Republicans block them, they will be making the Democrat’s anti-filibuster case for them.
For the the additional legislation, I would suggest an infrastructure bill, a clean power initiative, and comprehensive immigration reform. The last is a big wedge issue for Republicans, and besides reasons of justice and equity, immigration reform would bring millions of younger workers into the Social Security system, thereby bolstering it’s finances.
Another Scott
@Baud: Yeah, Chuck wasn’t going to start the voting until he had the votes. But one could imagine situations where the timing might have been shifted with more pressure to get “wavering” Democrats fully on board if attendance had been different.
It’s a majority of senators voting, not majority of all senators, isn’t it?
Still, winning without a tiebreak is good.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
The tax forgiveness will only be a wash for the highest income families. For example, if you are an unemployed spouse married to a surgeon who makes $500,000/yr then the income tax forgiveness will be real $$$. On the other hand, if you are an unemployed waiter without a wealthy spouse then the tax forgiveness will be trivial because you won’t owe much in the first place and you’d be much better off with the extra $100/wk.
Taxes are progressive so tax forgiveness is tilted very heavily towards the wealthy who need it least.
Not saying there aren’t lower income people who will benefit. But the bulk of the benefit will go to higher income families with one spouse unemployed, by definition.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
I try not to speak ill about any of these folks, but this is a monumentally inaccurate thing to say.
ETA: I was going to say something harsher.
cain
So many who involved in grievance politics to choose from! So many unhappy people to interview – so many purists who are butt hurt. So many GOP wagging their fingers with one hand, while sticking themselves in the rear with the other!
scottinnj
All the checks that go out should have Stacey Abrams’ signature. This doesn’t happen without her.
Racer X
“…one of the largest stimulus packages in U.S. history.”
Except it is NOT a stimulus package, it is a DISASTER RELIEF package in response to a disaster. Why is that so hard to get right?
Baud
@Brachiator:
Be harsh. It’s an awful thing to sat. If you wouldn’t want to hear Chuck Todd say it, it’s not ok when she says it.
Kent
@Sister Golden Bear: If it was Tuberville, then it was the Senate not the House. I expect this was one of those hundreds of votarama amendments that the GOP tossed out, knowing it would get voted down?
The shame, of course, is that all the other GOPers, even Collins, Romney, and Murkowski voted for it.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Red Rose Twitter is already screaming about how Trump was more generous than Biden, I guess because $1400 is less than $2000 and Trump mentioned $2000? They’re doing their best to help Trump’s big comeback in 2024.
patrick II
@Steeplejack (phone):
Artists who have asked Trump to cease and desist using their songs at rallies: Elton John, Neil Young, Tom Petty, The Rolling Stones, Phil Collins, Village People, Tina Turner, Survivor, The Who, Bruce Springsteen, The Beatles, AD/DC, Rihanna, Adele, and more. Didn’t stop him.
CaseyL
Yay, Democrats! Looking forward to seeing the House finish this up pronto.
I’m not sure how good the messaging will be on the Congressional side, but am reasonably confident the Biden Administration messaging will be spot on. Jen Psaki has shown she knows how to hammer a point home and not be distracted, and hopefully the other spokespersons are just as good.
trnc
@Cheryl Rofer:
Curious what other people think of the idea that one vote by a member of the opposition party makes it bipartisan (in the eyes of the media and perhaps others). It gives too much credit to the party in opposition. Seems to me that 10% of votes would be a minimum threshold.
Gravenstone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She understands poison pills, right? She’s not that gobsmackingly stupid as to deliver talking points for the RNC, right?
MomSense
Now we go forth and tell everyone all the good things that this law will do!
MisterForkbeard
@Brachiator: Omar is someone that I really wanted to have in congress and her voice as a refugee is important.
But holy shit does she also say some incredibly stupid stuff. Like, repeatedly. And in many cases (like this) straight fucking wrong.
RedDirtGirl
Pardon my ignorance, but why did this not require 60 votes rather than a simple majority?
trnc
@Cheryl Rofer: Saw this right after I posted my last comment. I definitely love making it clear that what we’re voting on has bipartisan voter support, and I don’t think dems in the administration and congress should miss a chance to say that republican voters are being helped as much as as democratic voters.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: For a Republican to outflank the Democrats on the left, they don’t actually have to DO anything; they just have to make some noise early on about possibly theoretically supporting something more generous than the Democrats could get passed. Then just blanket oppose anything the Democrats really do, so that the Dems end up having to negotiate it down with their own right wing. Presto, our progressive betters and some media hacks will marvel at the Republican outflankening.
Brachiator
@Baud:
Members of the Squad get death threats and vicious racist taunts and accusations. There is no universe in which they can be compared to Chuck Todd.
scottinnj
@Kent: According to the NY Times the $10,200 exemption is limited to those < $150k of income in 2020(not clear if that is individual or say household for a working couple). But yes it is a benefit skewed toward higher income earners.
I do think there are alot of people who were furloughed for maybe 3-4 months then went back to work. Many of them made close to their weekly working wages (with the extra $600) while on UI. BUT they were not having tax withheld. Their employers would have taken out normal withholding when working for the 8-9 months they did work. So they will, more or less have a similar income to 2019, but with a lot less tax taken out.
Geminid
@CaseyL: Chuck Schumer’s public messaging is usually pretty good. I doubt if many people here listen much to network radio news, but 10’s of millions of Americans do. Typically, when a story involves a Senate issue, there is a brief synopsis of the issue, then McConnell and Schumer each get a 8-12 second sound bite. Schumer’s statements always are succinct and punchy. Speaker Pelosi also is good at this type of communication.
WaterGirl
@Kent: And this is why I think Nancy Pelosi will put up the Senate version as-is, for a vote. The Rs have been delaying the American Recovery Act, hoping someone will get sick and/or die.
Let’s take this one to the bank on Monday, as-is, and call it a win before Joe Manchin and Sinema decide there needs to be something in the bill that says all poor kids have to break open their piggy banks and give that money to rich republicans, or some Republican kneecaps a Dem so they are unable to vote on any changes that would have to go back to the Senate.
batgirl
@Adam L Silverman: Yep, even Florida passed the $15 minimum wage with 60% while voting in Republicans. It is popular.
Adam L Silverman
@Racer X: Because almost no one who matters has been describing it that way. And the few who are are ignored by the editorial slant that every major news outlet has adopted for its coverage.
Omnes Omnibus
And now everyone involved should go out and talk about all the benefits it provides and how it is the greatest thing since sliced fucking bread. Take the win and claim the win.*
*Paraphrased from my comment in a prior thread.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
This is the point that makes my blood boil!
Adam L Silverman
@RedDirtGirl: Because they used one of their two reconciliation slots. Those are reserved for, under the current Senate rules, bills that have budgetary impacts. Why the Parliamentarian doesn’t think raising the minimum wage would have a budgetary impact is beyond me. Bills that go through reconciliation are not required to meet the 60 vote cloture threshold.
germy
CaseyL
@Geminid:
“Democrats want you to live long and prosper. Republicans want you to die in poverty and despair” is pretty succinct!
Jinchi
@cain:
I never understand all this progressive-bashing at BJ. Bernie Sanders never threatened to derail the Covid-19 bill, Joe Manchin did.
It’s a mystery to me why you all think Bernie, AOC and the gang are the problem. They may tweet or go on TV and complain and wish for a better bill, but when they’re needed by the party they’ve been there.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: I wonder if Europe does better with socialism because they have a better quality left.
@Brachiator:
I didn’t compare anyone to Chuck Todd. I said if you don’t want to hear the message from Chuck Todd, you shouldn’t want to hear it from her. The unconscionable death threats she gets don’t give her privilege to ratfuck our messaging.
Brachiator
@trnc:
Yep. The bill helps people and small business, and will aid in the post-pandemic recovery.
And the faster they get the bill passed and signed, the faster relief will be available to those who need it.
laura
Just thinking about so many families, so many individuals who have been thrown into dire straits – savings gone, housing options including vehicles, broke ass broke, scared, sick, hungry and watching themselves drown in sudden sharp poverty. I know more than a few. You probably do too. This will be the best thing to happen and its cause for tears of joy and celebration. Getting vaccines in arms will allow celebrations in person. This bill is a huge deal. Huge. I’m hopeful for better days ahead.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: The New York Times should fire him, but I highly doubt they will. As should Yale. No one this ethically compromised should be teaching in a program on ethics.
Baud
@Jinchi:
We have been bashing Manchin. And not Bernie because he’s been good on this. Now we’re bashing the left because they’re coming out with harmful messaging.
germy
Kent
I filed for unemployment when I was laid off from substitute teaching last spring. When all the local schools went to virtual learning there was no need for subs anymore. The districts just told teachers who were sick or had unavoidable conflicts to just post non-zoom work for their students unless they were going to be away from zoom for more than 3 days. Since teachers tend to hoard their annual leave like gold (and it rolls over from year to year) there was suddenly zero demand for subs except for the occasional teacher who was going to be out long-term for maternity leave or something.
Anyway, when I filed here in WA it was made VERY CLEAR through the unemployment web site that benefits were taxable and that you should elect for some tax withholding. Which is what I did. You had to go through a series of worksheet screens and reject tax withholding to even get to where you could file your claim. So anyone who went through the process here in WA was made well aware that their UI benefits are taxable. I don’t know if that is the case in other states. But these surprise tax bills have to be coming to people who weren’t paying the slightest fucking bit of attention when they filed, or who were just hoping the issue would magically go away. Or were just kicking the can down the road and trying to get maximum benefits back then.
Jinchi
@RedDirtGirl:
The Senate wrote the rules so that budget reconciliation bills aren’t subject to the filibuster (thank god).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jinchi:
Hi, I’d like to introduce you to an old friend of mine, the 2016 election….
ETA: and their younger sibling, the 2022 mid-terms
Matt McIrvin
@Baud:
Do they? They built stronger welfare states in the late 20th century, I think because in the days when they were doing that they were more ethnically homogeneous so racist resentment was less of an impediment. But in the post-’08 recession they got hit worse by austerity government than we were under Obama, even with Congressional Republicans dragging on everything.
dr. bloor
@patrick II: The difference, of course, is that the musicians really wanted him to stop playing their songs. Donnie’s just maneuvering for a tribu–er, licensing agreement to use his name.
germy
@Adam L Silverman:
He wrote a book on morality. I guess he had to conquer it before he could write about it.
germy
@dr. bloor:
He wants to wet his beak.
Brachiator
@Jinchi:
Fair point.
dc
@Adam L Silverman: But in the interim, people who really need the raise, won’t get it. And that’s more important than anything else.
Doc Sardonic
@patrick II: Good part of the reason for that is that most artists have a limited grip on their licenses for the music. Most are signed on to agreements with the label an publishers to bulk license music to venues, ie. Stadiums and arenas that do sports. Tangerine Tiberius used those licenses for getting around the cease and desist orders.
yellowdog
@Another Scott: One of them went home for a family emergency.
PsiFighter37
@Adam L Silverman: Actually, you only get one reconciliation bill per fiscal year. Democrats are lucky that they had the House, so they could inherently block any reconciliation bill that the Senate tried to jam through prior to the 2020 elections – so the opportunity for a reconciliation bill for the fiscal year starting at end of September 2020 went unused by the GOP. The next one this year has to be in the fall, after end of fiscal 2021 (in September).
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: Or people who aren’t married to a physician and need every dollar of their unemployment to pay their bills every month.
Geminid
@Jinchi: I distinguish between progressive Democratic members of Congress, who thus far have not undercut their Caucuses in actual votes, from the many outside polemicists like Sirota, Grim, and Gray, who take any and all opportunities to undermine their audience’s respect for Democratic leadership.
But now that the irrepressible Lobster Ragnarok is back in action, I just watch him knock these lefty soreheads out of the Twitter ballpark.
scottinnj
@Kent: hope you are back teaching (and doing it safely)!
i know here in NJ you have to opt in to withhold. My mom applied and did not withhold so I had her send me a bit each mom for the tax bill With this change I can give most of that back to her instead of to uncle sam.
PsiFighter37
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Eh, I’d actually think that Bernie might actually get on board with helping the team in 2022 now that his presidential aspirations are shot. I think he likes being where the action is, and being chairman of the Senate Budget Committee – and actually wielding some real power – might make him more inclined to campaign for Democrats where he would actually be helpful (not where he thinks he will be). We shall see, of course, but I get the sense that he harbors very little of the animus towards Biden that he usually holds towards other Democrats.
Adam L Silverman
@Jinchi: The issue is not Bernie or AOC. It is the Justice Dems and red rose folks on social media who constantly work the refs about how any progress is actually a loss because it is not total and complete progress, just incrimental. So it isn’t just the statements made by Congresswoman Omar that others have posted up thread, it’s also stupid shit like this from Bernie’s former campaign press secretary/spokeswoman:
Brachiator
@Kent:
I did not realize that this was the case. Thank you for the insightful explanation on the unexpected impact of remote teaching.
Often, people know about withholding, but need the money since their total income has declined.
This is why we need income supports when pandemics and other situations hit.
A NPR Marketplace story notes that one average unemployment provides half of the income that people used to receive. The top off would have increased that to 85 percent.
Some states which previously taxed unemployment have been in a rush to pass bills exempting these benefits from taxation.
I had one client who never had taxes withheld from Social Security or her pensions. She said she might die and wanted the money now. She would happily pay up later.
david
@Matt McIrvin: $1400 is less than the $1800 ($1200 + $600) Former Guy delivered. It was hilarious how Dems are trying to take credit for Former Guy’s $600 and include it as part of their “$2000”.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Europe does better with it because of two things:
In the US conservatives have consistently blocked the creation and implementation of social welfare/social insurance programs as part of the 20th century anti-Communism efforts: if you give a little and provide people with universal health care/insurance or guaranteed retirements or proper unemployment, then they’ll just want more and the next think you know will be the United Soviet States of America. They’ve also consistently blocked them because they don’t want them going to non-white, non-Christian Americans. And if this means that poorer white and Christian Americans get hurt, well that’s a) just tough and b) good politics because it makes them easier to manipulate through their grievances of getting screwed over.
Omnes Omnibus
@david: Wow.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PsiFighter37: in a lot of ways, Bernie is Dr Frankenstein: he’s always been willing to take half a loaf, as his supporters were wont to say, but he’s created a movement that believes anyone who would take half a loaf rather than righteously starve is worse than
Bushtrump, and one thing they’re very, very good at is getting media attention.MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s a coalition. Some people are going to be bad actors at different times.
In 2016 the purity left did a lot of damage. They did SOME in 2020 but fell into line.
For this bill, the conservative/moderate wing of the Dems caused unnecessary problems for the Senate Bill. It looks like the purity left will be the ones trying to cause problems with the final bill’s package – or the effort to brag about it later, which is also important.
MP
@germy: Ah, yes, “From the Outside Looking In”. Great book.
MisterForkbeard
@dc: People who really needed the raise couldn’t get it NOW, either. After the parliamentarian ruling, there was no way this would pass.
So a single bill is the best way to handle it.
Starfish
@PsiFighter37: You are buying into right wing branding of “The Squad.” The Squad is not a monolith. They are all young women of color, but they represent different people. Ayanna Pressley is the most serious and my favorite. Lauren Underwood also does not get as much attention as she deserves.
A lot of the anti-Omar stuff is Islamophobic nonsense. Ilhan Omar retweeted the announcement that the COVID bill passed so I am not sure where people are getting that she said something else.
My husband was opposed to something Cori Bush said, and I was like “Hell, if Cori Bush represents a district that is mostly Black and gets nothing, she really should be up there asking for the moon.”
The only way that the Overton window shifts from “crazy Democrats spending the money that fiscal conservatives want to spend like drunk sailors in give aways to the rich” is for someone to be sitting there and shamelessly asking for even more and pointing out how irresponsible with money Republicans are like every five minutes.
The complaints about the $15 dollars, the “mistakes” about the $2000, are all things that made it possible for more important things not to get cut.
Wapiti
@RedDirtGirl: It’s a reconciliation bill, limited to funding matters. The Senate is so broken (how broken are they?) that they recognize that their partisan bullshit and the filibuster would bring the country to a dead standstill because they couldn’t pass a simple budget. So they made an exception for reconciliation bills. Think it’s one per fiscal year.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman:
Are AOC (!) and Omar not part of the Justice Dems? and if they aren’t… technically there’s no Blue Dog caucus in the Senate, that doesn’t mean the label doesn’t apply to Manchin and Sinema. IMneverHO.
Geminid
@Geminid: Besides Mr. Lobster, the KHive folks do pretty well also, especially when critics on the left disparage Vice President Harris, against whom they seem to have a very bitter vendetta.
MisterForkbeard
@david: Oh, fuck off. That $600 was there because Democrats pushed for it. They also pushed for a $2000 package that Trump pretended to support but didn’t actually do anything to push.
Americans will get those checks because Democrats fucking fought for it, and you can just fuck right off with this ridiculous bullshit.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There are actual Justice Dems in the House. AOC isn’t one of them. She’s sympathetic to some of the general aims but she’s not generally a purity leftist – she pushes things left but does celebrate wins and votes on the right side of things when it matters.
Kropacetic
Did Trump lift a finger to get those checks out or just claim credit for Congress’s work?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Starfish:
Has Lauren Underwood ever identified herself as a member of “The Squad”?
: blinking guy emoji :
Adam L Silverman
@dc: If it had been in the American Recovery Act, given that Manchin and Sinema said they wouldn’t support the bill unless it was removed, the entire American Recovery Act would have failed this morning and even more people would continue to be hurt. I personally think the minimum wage should be around $25 an hour, not that anyone would support that. But I also know how to count votes and understand that sometimes you can’t eat the elephant all at once. The votes were not their vote it as part of the American Recovery Act and every piece of information we have indicates that if they had found a way to jam it in the entire bill would have failed. So they did the smart thing. They didn’t fight the Parliamentarian too hard. They then had Bernie who has the most credibility on this stuff bring it up as a specific amendment to the American Recovery Act, even though Bernie, Schumer, Pelosi, Biden, and Harris all knew it would still fail. By doing so they gauged the depth of Democratic opposition to it being in the American Recovery Act and to raising it to $15 dollars by seeing which Democrats voted against it. Seven did. This tells them exactly who they need to work on for when it is brought up as a stand alone. Your choice today was the American Recovery Act without a minimum wage increase or nothing. Would you have preferred nothing?
Live today, fight tomorrow…
Barbara
@david: Why shouldn’t they tak e ceredit? Didn’t it pass because of Democratic support? Go back to your mad libs pad and try again. Or don’t.
Kropacetic
How dare we attempt to spend taxpayer money on the taxpayers…?
JMG
Hoyer has already said the House will vote Monday on taking up the Senate bill with a final vote on the measure Tuesday. In fairness to Omar, even though her comment was meaningless, she was comparing this bill to the original $3 trillion CARES Act, not what the Republicans proposed this time. If she wanted a bigger bill this time, she should’ve arranged for a stock market crash, because that’s all that the GOP on board for CARES.
Adam L Silverman
@PsiFighter37: They can take up two, possibly three if they want to try to push it. Technically, it is their own rule and only needs 51 votes to amend, so they could just scrap it if they felt like. The details are below.
https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/introduction-to-budget-reconciliation
Brachiator
@david:
You are joking, right?
Biden’s plan provides much more to dependents, including dependents who got nothing in the earlier relief bills.
There are also hugely significant increases to other credits to individuals and families.
It will be great fun to tout all the benefits of Biden’s efforts here.
Joe Biden.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
I guess Collins, Romney, and Murkowski, aren’t as “moderate” as the media is so fond of claiming
Soprano2
@scottinnj: This is true. Our manager said she got hosed on her taxes because of owing taxes on the $600/week unemployment. She had taxes withheld from the state unemployment. I hope the bill helps her and people like her.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: AOC was, don’t know if she still is. Have no idea about Omar.
Baud
@JMG:
CARES was also so big because it had a lot of money to big corporations. Should we have duplicated that in this bill?
dc
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, I agree, but if Sinema is saying she wants the raise, but in a separate bill, then that’s not going to pass unless she and Manchin (and probably a few others) agree to ditch the filibuster. I’d also like to see the minimum wage be much higher than 15$, and also would like to see a tie between the highest paid in a company and the lowest paid, by percentage.
Baud
@Brachiator:
He’s not joking. He’s ratfucking.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JMG:
If she’s giving trump credit for the CARES Act, that… doesn’t make her look smarter….
Baud
@Kent:
And all of our guys didn’t, including the ones we dislike.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: And don’t forget it includes a waiver of having to repay the stimulus money from the CARES Act and then whatever they called the thing they passed in November, which, under the rules set up in by the Trump administration, was going to be deducted from tax refunds in 2021. Everyone thought the government was giving them disaster relief, while the Trump administration quietly decided it was a loan against their 2021 tax refunds.
Brachiator
@JMG:
Talking about which bill was bigger is meaningless, and uninformed.
The components of the bills were different. Biden’s bill provides much more direct aid to individuals.
It is weird how some of the Squad and others focus on the minimum wage, but not other efforts to provide direct relief to people.
RedDirtGirl
@Adam L Silverman: thanks Adam.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Perfect. I really am starting to regret not supporting him in the primary.
Mary G
I am so, so happy! Right now, I don’t care who’s bitching about what – Democrats managed to unify even with razor-thin margins to pass a $1.9 trillion bill that benefits the lower and middle class and cuts child poverty in half.
This is a fucking big Biden deal. I doubt even Omar will dare to vote no on Tuesday no matter what stupidity she tweets. This one accomplishment – compromising amongst the party – is an encouraging sign of political common sense. Maybe watching the Freedumb Caucus blow up bill after bill under Boehner and Ryan taught a bit of a lesson.
Now pass taxing the rich, $15 minimum wage, infrastructure and all other popular bills one after the other and watch the Republicans in the Senate cringe.
???????????
Baud
@Brachiator:
It’s not weird. When Obamacare passed, people focused on the lack of a public option and ignored Medicaid expansion. It’s part for the course.
Baud
@Mary G:
?
Chief Oshkosh
@scottinnj: This is a very good point, though Ms. Abrams would probably ask that the 4 or 5 other GA groups allied with hers should also get credit.
Lyrebird
@Adam L Silverman: GLORY BE! And, thanks for the deliberative country club quip. Needed that.
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks to you too!
Lyrebird
Quoted
For
Truth!
Maybe we should buy them Pelotons with national security money and give them something less dangerous to do than tearing down democracy.
Benw
In 2020 we all showed up to push Biden over the finish line. Small-c conservative Ds, moderates, progressives, EVERYONE on the D side. That the intramural sniping started so soon after the election – or, really, continued through the election – was a bummer. But I think it’s kind of inevitable as the Democratic party gets politically broader as the Republicans shrink to represent only a thin sliver of ultra-wealthy and reactionary lunacy. We are the party that gets politicians from Vermont and W Virginia and the Bronx/Queens and Georgia to vote together to do good stuff for America like this Act and I’m proud to be in it (progressive wing)!
It would be fun to change bipartisan to mean Democrats coming to an internal consensus or compromise, leave the Republican wackos out of it. THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN BILL!
ETA: agreeing completely with Mary G @145!
Salty Sam
THIS, THANK YOU, Jinchi.
The butt-hurt of some of the commuters here with respect to some progressive politicians gets tiresome. Especially when, as today, they misquote said progressives.
Baud
@Salty Sam:
If you want to correct a misquote, please do so. I’m happy to bash whoever needs bashing, but I’m not interested in doing it unfairly.
Ken
@david:
We'll have to hope the pandemic lasts longer, so that more relief is required.Major Major Major Major
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
As an eternal Bernie skeptic, I say good on Bernie.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
This is not correct. None of the stimulus payments ever had to be repaid.
Briefly, some amounts could be taken for child support or other obligations.
Trump’s payroll deduction flim flam was problematic.
Kropacetic
I know this was intended as sarcasm, but what we really need to do is to get out of the habit of only helping average Americans on an emergency basis in times of crisis. We need planned responses to crises and to create a situation where most people have a bit of financial stability/resilience in general.
There are those who call me...tim... (Still posh)
How weird is it that after a cold and dreary day in the Cape Fear, I sit down and read this and the sun breaks thru the clouds at last? Goddamn true story.
Baud
@Kropacetic:
No way to do that without a sustained Democratic majority.
Redshift
@david:
Warnock and Ossof were campaigned on $2000 checks as an increase from the $600 proposal then on the table. This bill does that. And the Georgia Senate races are the only reason we got the December relief bill at all after McConnell had been blocking it for six months.
Anyone who credits the $600 to the Former Guy and is outraged that the number on the current check isn’t 2000 is more interested in finding something to blame Democrats for than accomplishing anything.
Brachiator
@Baud:
“People” didn’t focus on the lack of a public option. This was a thing for political junkies and those who ride purity ponies.
JMG
@Baud: I’m not arguing for her position, just recounting how the CARES Act came to be. At the time, it was the right play because it was felt incorrectly business income would shrink to nothing in lockdowns, too.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman:
This is worth repeating since it gets lost in the shuffle. Nothing actually prevents 50 senators + the VP from passing a given piece of legislation with a simple majority. All the drama about the $15 minimum wage being struck by the parliamentarian obfuscated the fact that there were never 50 votes for it in the first place.
Kropacetic
Make it so.
Baud
@Brachiator:
I consider political junkies people. Jury is still out on purity ponies. :-)
Dorothy A. Winsor
Outside on a walk, I just ran into a neighbor who told me her daughter in Colorado just got vaccinated because she lives near a deep red area that couldn’t get people to sign up. They were giving it to anyone 18 and older.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Laws are actually pretty hard to repeal nowadays! I don’t think we should assume automatic stabilizers would be on the chopping block any time soon, if we were to pass them this year.
@Dorothy A. Winsor: nice!
Salty Sam
@Baud: Omar’s tweet (@#18) was vague, so I’ll change my “misquoted” to “misinterpreted”. I took her meaning to be directed at why Dems negotiated downwards with Manchin- I agree with her on that, it’s an own-goal, but I understand. It’s politics. Others here interpreted her tweet differently.
I will stand by my assertion that the “Prog-hate” and butt hurt on display here for AOC, Omar, etc gets really really tiresome. As for the Rose-Twitter crowd, I’m not on Twitter, so they don’t bother me in the least.
ETA- I agree that they can cause damage with their bullshit, I’m just not as exposed to it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major:
That is correct.
brantl
@RedDirtGirl: reconciliation bill, only needs 51 votes.
Jackie
@germy: The same Trump who ignores musicians telling him to stop playing their music at rallies! I hope they do as he did: IGNORE him! LOL
Kelly
Tax forgiveness on unemployment is a big deal. I collected unemployment for 4 months in 1990. It was the only time I had taxable income without withholding. It all worked out because my new job paid a lot more than the one I was laid off from but tax time was awkward.
brantl
@Jinchi: Saying that Trump offered better is bullshit. He never did..
germy
@Jackie:
“If we can’t use the trump name in our campaign fundraising emails, how are we supposed to win??”
Brachiator
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
What are those people in Colorado smoking?
Good to hear the daughter got vaccinated.
Kropacetic
He may have said he did on one or two small points; but that was to stir the pot, not to make any meaningful effort to help Americans. He was mugging for the camera regarding the shiniest objects in the relief bill while leading a party that was resisting it.
Millard Filmore
@Baud:
Hey Baud, I will never regret supporting you in the primary.
zhena gogolia
@Brachiator:
Apparently the same story in Moscow. It’s quite easy to get a vaccine because people are afraid of it.
Just Some Fuckhead
Is AOC a member of the People’s Front of Judea or the Judean People’s Front? I always forget.
Wapiti
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Good for the daughter. It might not be the best solution (getting the most-at-risk vaccinated) but it might be the best possible solution for that area.
Sure Lurkalot
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for all your excellent comments and post. Today is a good day.
I will probably get and deserve criticism for not knowing how sausage is made, but incrementalism sometimes not only doesn’t get the story told, it loses the plot. Most people here disdain M4A, and I guess any way other countries have achieved near universal affordable coverage, but what’s happened in your lifetime? In mine, my employer paid my full premium from my first job in 1981 to the 90’s. Copays were minimal and there were either no or very low deductibles. Year by year the burden got shifted and we are further away from affordable health care than ever, until you hit the magic age of 65. And even Medicare is more expensive than ever and being seriously compromised by private insurance. There are steps that take you up a mountain and steps that lead you off a cliff.
dmsilev
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Saw a poll recently that found vaccine hesitancy/reluctance dropping for all groups …except for Republicans.
Literally a death cult.
taumaturgo
@Another Scott: If the Senate conservatives said no and made modifications to what the House proposed, are the House Liberal members entitled to say if conservatives say no, we say no, and send the bill back to the Senate? Or, is this a privilege reserved for rich conservative Democrats Senators?
Major Major Major Major
@Sure Lurkalot:
Er, citation needed? Personally I’d like to see a Medicaid for all system where we set up a passable universal floor but don’t outlaw replacement or supplemental plans. Sort of like a UBI.
ETA importantly we already have the machinery in place for this.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@taumaturgo: That approach would be politically stupid, since they’d end up getting the blame for the delay, not the folk in the Senate.
Another Scott
@taumaturgo: I’ll play, briefly.
As I said, the quickest way to get the bill to Biden’s desk is for the House to pass the Senate version. Having it go to Conference will delay it, and give the 50
should-be-presidentssenators the opportunity to make other changes that the House (and we) are unlikely to like.The point is to pass a good-enough bill quickly because previous relief bills run out shortly.
And that’s what the House will do on Tuesday.
Additional legislation can and will follow, as always. Having Democrats in charge will permit sensible incremental progress, even if it’s not as fast as we would like.
HTH!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
Brooks could potentially be a one-man jobs creation program, opening up spots at Aspen Institute, NYT, and Yale if this is all done right.
Plus he can be a case study in someone else’s ethics book! =)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major: Agree, I don’t think most folk here oppose the concept of M4A, however we do see that it would be difficult to achieve and implement. Sometimes, progressives remind me of libertarians, there’s a whole lot of handwaving going on.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sure Lurkalot: I don’t think that any non-troll who comments on this site would not want universal healthcare starting yesterday. That being said, we were barely able to get the ACA through Congress and the the Supreme Court. You give me a fast, workable path to universal healthcare, and I will be right there with you pushing for it. In the meantime, piecemeal and half a loaf is what we can get.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
It’s the “or bust” part people don’t like.
Omnes Omnibus
@taumaturgo: Why would they? What would they accomplish? Remember, the goal is supposed to be helping people not making a political point.
taumaturgo
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Wait, it was the conservative in the Senate that modify the HOUSE bill, thus precipitating the delay, is it not? But back to my question is the right to say no and modify the bill reserved to conservative Senators or could the Liberals in the House vote no if for example the $15 MW is not placed back in the bill?
Jeffro
Yup.
Reminds me of Jarvanka’s great “UNIVERSAL CHILD CARE!!!1!” plan…which was gonna let people borrow from their own future Social Security to pay for their kids’ daycare.
Mary G
@Salty Sam: I love AOC, and Omar serves to push the dialog left. The country is being ruled by very conservative laws enacted through the 80s, Big Dog Bill Clinton’s triangulation, GWB’s idiot war, Obama’s hands tied by Moscow Mitch, etc.
So I don’t drag them. They have their uses. Even Wilmer. Hillary ran on $12 in 2016, and he made that too low, so now we’re focused $3 higher, which is also too low in my district. But I imagine somebody making $7.09 in a meatpacking plant or stocking shelves at WalMart would be thrilled.
MomSense
@Jinchi:
The only reason Bernie wasn’t a problem is because he was given a leadership role and the responsibility that comes with that role to PASS a goddamned bill. He didn’t have the luxury of his past no votes because of imperfections (ie the auto industry bailout).
Kropacetic
They have every right to vote no or try to force changes that will further delay the bill. Why would they want to?
Captain C
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Less than their one-third offer? Is she high? What the hell is she referring to?
topclimber
@Jinchi: BJ only welcomes impure little ponies. Friendship is never magical enough here for many to give free rein to leftier-than-herd allies.
Nettoyeur
@Geminid: how about DC statehood?
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
They wanted to get this bill passed and signed around March 15. They are still within reach of their targets.
The tinkering was fairly modest. I don’t think they will tinker anymore, but they still have a little time.
We will see what Biden and Pelosi decide to do.
Another Scott
A nicely done pie chart:
(via ssurovell)
Cheers,
Scott.
Starfish
@Kropacetic: Right? It has gotten really weird.
How does the Republican Party get away with still being “fiscal conservatism” where they have never seen a war where they didn’t want to enrich some defense contractors?
UncleEbeneezer
@Cheryl Rofer: And it was even popular with Republican voters. Just not Republican elected officials.
jeffreyw
@Captain C: It’s not at all clear from the context but I think that was a dig at Manchin. Schumer had touted a deal reached with the Republicans with better numbers than what Manchin would go for so he threatened to vote no.
PaulWartenberg
New rule for Senate races: Only those who make minimum wage should be allowed to run for a Senate seat.
Kropacetic
They’re exceptionally good at manipulating a media ecosystem that has a stake in this sort of largesse for the already rich and powerful.
Racer X
@Adam L Silverman: Ugh…messaging is so important. When 2022 rolls around it needs to be stated loud and clear that the GQP voted against disaster relief for the entire country.
Also nice point about there being 2 reconciliation slots open this year. Most people don’t realize this. It gives me hope for a minimum wage deal.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@taumaturgo: There are not the votes to get a $15 minimum wage on a bill that will pass the Senate, the parliamentarian ruled that it can’t be part of the bill, there are not the votes to override the parliamentarian. You cannot get an increase in the minimum wage(which wouldn’t get to $15 for another 5 years anyway) and you’ll just get the blame for delaying immediate relief.
topclimber
@Adam L Silverman: Ah, Rose Twitter. God, how powerful they must be….right?
Dan B
@CaseyL: Death and despair make ‘us’ strong.
The view of ‘us’ on the far side of the putting green is plenty close.
I will check out this hypothesis with my sister in law. Her membership number is 2 at the country club.
taumaturgo
@Kropacetic: Maybe for the same reasons the eight Democrats voted to prevent the MW to come up for a vote. Or follow Machin’s example in his successful fight to reduce unemployment benefits. Maybe Biden will negotiate directly with the no voters seeing that his legislation could go down in flames. Myriad of reasons.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Starfish: They’ve also never seen a tax cut tilted to the upper income brackets that they didn’t like.
Chyron HR
@Mary G:
And there were no negative consequences whatsoever to Bernie dragging Clinton with campaign promises that he knew he’d never have to fulfill. Thanks, Bernie!
Kropacetic
Showboating?
I can only hope our leftier Congressfolk aren’t pursuing this end as zealously as you are.
JMG
Congressional Progressive Caucus offers pro forma disappointment, but indicates it will vote for Senate bill in the House.
cain
I said purists – and for me that means morons like David Sirota and various others that are into grievance politics. I’m not aware of either AOC or Bernie involved in grievance politics or purity. Trust me there are plenty of blue checked mouth breathers who are coming at the party because of the lack of minimum wage – instead of taking it for the victory it is. They just want hills to die on.
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s what happened to me. I lost 200 off my refund after filling out the sheet that asked what stimulus payments I’d received.
Dan B
@Jinchi: I’m bipartisan in my loathing for people who get way out ahead of their skis and the Manchin types who want a 1950’s stifling and fearful paradise.
Then there are the QOP monsters who feel that pain is strength and warriors are peacekeepers.
Morzer
So much for the people fluffing Romney and Murkowski as moderates rather than adherents of the Death Eater Trump cult. Looks like the Democrats are setting up for 2022 much better than the Q Qucks Qlan. Time to run up the score, because that’s always the right thing to do against evil.
germy
Mary G
Moar good news:
Fired!
Major Major Major Major
@topclimber: lol
germy
But without the 1950s tax rate.
Jay
James E Powell
@Omnes Omnibus:
That had to be a response to a challenge to write a parody comment that challenges the applicability of Poe’s Law.
Morzer
@Mary G: Thoughts and prayers for Mad Matt and Krazy Katie.
cain
Perhaps you might want to take a look at who I called out in my original quote. I think it was quite clear that neither Bernie or AOC are purists. They know how the game is played.
Sure Lurkalot
@Omnes Omnibus: My point was that we aren’t getting piecemeal and half a loaf…in my lifetime, in regard to health care coverage, we have gone backwards. I have no issues with the long game or being realistic that complex problems don’t get solved quickly. But 40 years is a long time, no?
And of course, incrementalism is a two way street. The dark side will chip chip chip away at common goods until they’re gone.
The Thin Black Duke
I prefer half a loaf to an imaginary loaf of bread but that’s just me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@topclimber: didn’t you once acknowledge that Bernie hurt Hillary Clinton in 2016, but you think that’s okay because nobody ever mentioned income inequality until Brooklyn Dumbledore started righteously bellowing?
germy
cain
Just glad it ain’t Storm Front.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Thin Black Duke: Yes, but imagine how good that loaf will taste. //
Morzer
@germy: They have tried desperately to keep the economy in the ditch purely for the Sedition Caucus’ political gain.
Mary G
Like Harry Reid did, Chuck’s growing on me:
Fuck around and find out, Moscow Mitch!
Omnes Omnibus
@Sure Lurkalot:
A number of Dems have taken a shot at universal healthcare. The only ones who passed anything were LBJ (Fuck LBJ) with Medicare and Medicaid and BHO with the ACA. Maybe it isn’t as easy as it may seem. A lot of really talented people have tried.
Morzer
@The Thin Black Duke: Can we agree that only sourdough is acceptable?
cain
@germy: Are they comparing the economy to a cat? eg you overstimulate a cat it bites you?
Yeah, that makes total sense. Overstimulating, over-prepared, it’s all bad news, amirite?
LuciaMia
S’wonderful!
The Thin Black Duke
@Morzer: Hey, no love for pumpernickel?
Major Major Major Major
Good thread on why to celebrate the delicious sausage instead of whining about exactly two of the 200+ cooks
Geminid
@Nettoyeur: There is a good case to be made for DC statehood, and it is broadly popular in Balloon Juice precincts. Its not such a sure thing nationally, even if it should be. For the particular purpose I mention, we’ll need measures that have broad, pragmatic appeal, and that get all 50 members of the Senate Caucus on board. I’m not sure King, Tester, Hickenlooper, Shaheen and others would buy in, much less Manchin and Sinema.
LuciaMia
Should any of us be shocked…
Bill Arnold
@Matt McIrvin:
Red means that they are Republicans, yes? Red Rose == Republican Rose. (At least for the American subset of Red Rose Twitter, i.e. not foreign operatives.)
James E Powell
@Omnes Omnibus:
In my college days I had the opportunity to spend some time with former congressman Wayne Hays [long story], he told me, “Everything you think is a problem is how somebody else is making a living.” US health care spending is somewhere around $3.8 trillion. That’s a lot of somebodies, a lot of salaries.
cain
@Major Major Major Major:
This is just great stuff!
A part of me though knows that there is going to be some of those who got out of poverty (thanks to govt) that will whine that others are getting benefits. Not looking forward to the stories from the FYNYT about them – cuz you know they can’t help themselves.
James E Powell
As I watched last night, all I could think was “Thank god & the voters of Georgia that we won both those senate seats!”
Can you imagine how truly fucked we would be if we had lost only one?
Another Scott
@Geminid: Shaheen is one of the 42 co-sponsors. More are needed, as you say.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/631/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid:
don’t forget Hassan, who is said to have a tough race ahead if Sununu decides to run (less so against Ayotte), and I’m betting she’s not willing to roll the dice on adding a state that would ruin that nice round number of Senators. I wonder if Shaheen didn’t start announcing her moderation last week to make it easier for Hassan to vote with Manchin et al.ETA: and there’s Maggie Hassan. So… never mind. And the lead co-sponsor, or whatever, is Tom Carper? I would’ve lost even more on that bet.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: One of the replies to that tweet says they haven’t seen this information elsewhere. Before I get too excited… do we know for sure if this is real?
Mary G
Too good to save for respite:
Brachiator
@germy:
I expect that the Sunday shows will have the usual gang of idiots blabbering variations of conventional wisdom.
But I would love to ask: how can you “overstimulate” an economy that is still shut down in many places?
Short answer: you can’t.
And Fed chair Powell has consistently argued for more stimulus.
Conservatives just look for any excuse to defend what they think is a need for smaller government. This also means a government that mainly watches out for the interests of the plutocrats.
But logic and economic common sense argues that you need to help people who have lost income and jobs because of the disruptions caused by the deliberate shutdown of the economy.
But there are even too many economists who insist on applying out-of-date analyses to an extraordinary situation.
And the worst of the worst appear on Sunday shows (Krugman excepted).
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: compounding this is the fact that it’s looking like a lot of what we think we know about sovereign debt might be baseless. So you have old ideas being applied to other old ideas.
prostratedragon
@Baud:
I wonder if Europe does better with socialism because they have a better quality left.
I think it’s because, until recently at least, they had fewer Black people. In this country, racism has a lot to do with opposition to social policies of all kinds.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: That was really funny, in spite of the fact that I feel guilty laughing because he is obviously upset. Or a drama queen.
lowtechcyclist
Hell yeah. Nobody in their right mind would give the Senate another shot at this. Pelosi and the House Dems will pass the Senate bill as is, Biden will sign it, and yeah, this is a Big Fucking Deal.
And those eight Dems who voted against the minimum wage hike? We need to find out what sort of minimum wage bill they would vote for, because $7.25 is nothing. Nobody can live on 40 hours a week at $7.25 anywhere in this country. We need to raise it. If we can’t get $15, we still need to get what we can.
Baud
@James E Powell:
Elections have consequences.
debbie
@Mary G:
Good god, is that voice specific to that breed?
The Thin Black Duke
@James E Powell: People would lose their jobs, lose their homes, lose their lives. And the GOP would say, “Look what the Democrats made us do.” Then get elected again. This country didn’t just dodge a bullet, it dodged a thermonuclear missile.
Bill Arnold
@Jinchi:
FWIW, Sanders led a pre-doomed Senate vote on the minimum wage increase and now we have Democratic Senators who will be cast as flip-floppers if they change their mind in future votes on the matter. (I don’t know how many are up for re-election in 2022, to be clear)
Sanders’ minimum-wage effort looks doomed as Covid relief votes go through night
It may still have been net-good politics. But perhaps not.
At any rate, I reserve the right to bash anyone who preferentially bashes Democrats over Republicans.
debbie
Every GQP legislator I’ve heard interviewed (state and national) has proclaimed the legislation is a boondoggle for blue states. The strategy in 2022 and in 2024 should be to point to the successes in blue and in red states that resulted from this legislation.
rikyrah
I don’t think folks are truly grasping the scope of the bill that the Democrats just passed. And, how it’s going to help a whole lot of people.
As someone who works in local government, I was eyeing this bill like a hawk.
There’s a reason why the Republicans refused to put aid in there for the cities, counties and state governments.
The money in this bill is going to go a long way to stopping massive layoffs of government employees under the federal level. I’m breathing easier now, because we aren’t on the chopping block. So many of the non-federal governments were looking at serious slashing of jobs. Which would have added to the unemployment rolls, and since a disproportionate of those employees are Black…it would have hurt our community even more, and we’ve been hurt enough by COVID.
Never ever forget that the GOP always intended for non-federal Blue State governments to be pushed to bankruptcy.
Major Major Major Major
@rikyrah: gonna be GREAT for transit systems too.
Morzer
@lowtechcyclist: Kevin Drum seems to think that $12 would be a good thing to aim for.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
A lot of people were hurt today
The bill was so spectacular it short circuited the Emo Progs.
hueyplong
@rikyrah: People didn’t have to watch as closely as you did to catch the drift. They always tip their hand via Every Accusation is an Admission. They accuse the bill of being a liberal wish list, which means that they want no change from the existing policy of grinding blue governments to death (i.e., the RW wish list).
The Trump tax bill wasn’t just a giveaway to the top .1%. It was also targeted pain for blue staters whose itemized deductions included high state/local/property taxes. I knew I was a fuckee instead of a fucker when I was suddenly put in the position of taking the standardized deduction instead of itemizing.
Michael Cain
@lowtechcyclist:
Also as we found out when Trump delayed signing the bill in December, once the federal UI benefit lapses there are a number of states that have to go through a lengthy process to reinstate it. Don’t take any chances on that happening again.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Not only that there are a few of us who haven’t seen the $600 yet. I’m betting that I might be able to get it when I file my taxes, but I’m counting on it.
jnfr
@Geminid:
I like the way you think.
karen marie
@Salty Sam: Fucking progressives deserve every bit of shit thrown at them. Bunch of whiny ass titty babies whose brains never matured past where they were in the sixth grade.
Brachiator
@debbie:
They are certainly on message. Of course, their message is a lie.
Easy peasy:
“Dear Fox News viewer: Did you get some extra help for yourself and your family? Some extra aid for your business? Did you get some extra relief from unemployment? Have you got your free vaccine yet? You’re welcome. Democrats.”
Kropacetic
…always painting with a broad brush and harshly criticizing people within our coalition…
Cameron
I really do appreciate how Joe Biden held his ground on the size of this bill – weren’t Republicans trying to cut it by 2/3ds or something like that, and didn’t he tell them to pound sand? The bill may not contain everything everybody wants, but it’s a damn sight better than anything the Republicans claimed they would agree to (and would never have voted for anyway). Hope he continues to aim high.
J R in WV
@RedDirtGirl:
Not really ignorant to not be aware of every twisty Senate Rule in the giant book. There are exceptions to the 60 vote requirement, like approving appointments.
This exception is for budgetary acts, and it’s called reconciliation.
There can only be two reconciliation acts in each fiscal year, which for the federal govt runs from October to October. Some things can’t be in a reconciliation bill, and that’s decided by the Senate Parliamentarian — who can be overruled or replaced by the majority.
There are a ton of other details, most of which I’m blissfully unaware of. I’m sure there are many articles about reconciliation out there if you want more info.
The SenateRules are not part of “Roberts Rules of Order” which many organizations use for meetings and conventions. Wife’s union, the UMWA, others use Roberts Rules, and interested participants memorize what is in order when to take advantage of people who don’t bother to (or can’t) memorize the whole book.
Geminid
@prostratedragon: Europe is not very socialist. Aside from Great Britain’s national health care sytem, instituted in the late 1940’s by the post-war Labour government, administration of health care is generally by private, well regulated entities. And European economic institutions are predominately private. There is a stronger social safety net, at least in Western Europe, so these are often called democratic socialist countries.
Sweden considered socializing large companies in the 1980’s, but these initiatives went nowhere. Germany does have a model where labor unions have minority representation on corporate boards. But Germany is a still a capitalist country, and health insurance is private, but universal and strictly regulated.
The German system of universal health insurance was instituted in the 1870’s by the consevative “Iron Chancellor,” Otto von Bismarck. Bismarck wanted a strong Germany, so he wanted strong, healthy Germans.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@hueyplong: This is why, at the time, I called it the “Fuck You California Tax Act of 2017”.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
The IRS went through a lot of hoops to make sure people got their $600. If you got the first stimulus, you should have received the second.
When you do your 2020 taxes, you should use the Recovery Rebate Worksheet to claim the $600 payment if you did not receive it. This is precisely what the form is for.
Sure Lurkalot
@Omnes Omnibus: You are absolutely right OO. Many talented people have set their sights on the goal…many still do and the work continues. It’s all worthwhile.
But what is it? What is it that so many other countries, some not nearly as wealthy as we are, have found a way while we flounder with confusing structures, perverse incentives and inadequate coverage that saves not one dime but costs significantly more?
MisterForkbeard
@taumaturgo: If you’re advocating that Liberals try to tank the bill, I would tell you they’re gigantic assholes. Just like people here told you about Manchin.
debbie
@Brachiator:
I’m almost looking forward to the next election. Almost.
The Thin Black Duke
If I wanted to listen to ‘progressives’ bitch about how bad Democrats are, I’d listen to Republicans, which I don’t. I’m not going to forget what happened to Hillary Clinton in 2016.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
Ah, didn’t see this, thanks. (Not being snarky, appreciate your political science expertise.)
TS (the original)
@germy: General consensus on twitter appears to be he should have resigned from the nyt and stayed at the Aspen Institute.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sure Lurkalot: A mix of ignorance, racism, and selfishness.
sheldon vogt
@Another Scott: Dan Sullivan of Alaska. His father-in-law died this week. He left Friday to attend the funeral.
Sister Golden Bear
@Adam L Silverman: Definitely, there’s literally dozens of anti-trans bills in at least 14 states that I’m aware of.
Mississippi’s legislature just passed a law that would ban transgender girls and women from school sports and the governor is expected to sign it soon, which makes it the first state to pass a law attacking transgender youth this year. Like the other cookie-cutter bills being considered, it’s essential the same as the one that Idaho passed last year — and a federal judge promptly issued an injunction against because it violates Title IX.
@Kent: Good catch. It was out-of-coffee error.
J R in WV
@Baud:
 
Trollling, also, too, and lot of folks bit on his catfishing bait… Should be pied, but not here often enough to be worth it. Pieing someone causes comments responsive to the troll to be pied, which I find inconvenient.
burnspbesq
@Craigie:
It’s never to soon for a Rose Twitter hissy-fit.
Geminid
@J R in WV: In his days as a practicing attorney, my Atlanta friend represented one of the factions in a big internal wrangle in a large southern Baptist convention. Some decisions in question had been made under Robers Rules of order, and their validity was at issue. Since Roberts Rules are revised from time to time, my very thorough friend obtained the particular iterations in force at various dates, and ended up with a small collection of Robert’s Rules in effect at various times.
The matter was settled, so my friend never got the opportunity to catch opposing counsel quoting the wrong set of rules. That might have been a thrill. Of a lawyerly kind.
rikyrah
Major Major Major Major
@Morzer: Isn’t there a Republican proposal for $11 + eVerify? A $12 version of that seems doable.
Romney’s permanent child tax credit, paid out in the form of monthly cash, is also a good jumping off point for welfare state expansion. Funded mostly through elimination of SALT deduction but that’s lousy policy anyway.
Geoduck
@zhena gogolia: I’d ask if you meant Moscow, Russia or Moscow, Idaho, but I suspect the answer’s the same in both places.
Martin
I don’t think there’s disdain for it, as others have noted. But if you’re going to advocate for it, you need to fully understand everything that needs to happen with it. Not the least of which is the roughly 1 million americans that are employed in medical billing or collections. It’s a make-work program for a hell of a lot of cities and states.
So your M4A plan needs to address what to do with 5% of Connecticuts labor force, because it’s going to wipe out their jobs. Not saying that can’t be done – it certainly can – but you can’t not do it. You need some basic worker protections as well. For those people (often unionized) who would lose benefits in such a move (we got 6 months of in-home nursing care for my wife during her 2nd bed-rest pregnancy, with no deductibles or copays – M4A won’t do that) how do you ensure they don’t lose out? A simple requirement that a workers total compensation can’t go down in such a move – if you replace a high-value plan with M4A, ensure the worker gets the savings from the employer in salary or other benefit.
M4A is inevitable, but nations usually only adopt it when something else solves those other problems. Wars do a good job of wiping out jobs and benefits and upending the labor market that it becomes a convenient occasion to make the switch. We’re going to have to do that work up front, and I don’t see the advocates for M4A talking about how to solve those problems nearly enough.
Basically we’re saying ‘come back when you’ve thought this all the way through because you aren’t there yet’.
opiejeanne
@Kropacetic: This made me suddenly think of the goblin king in The Hobbit, singing his song; Trump is the Goblin King
https://youtu.be/3W0iA_1RB9Y
Ken
I’ve sometimes thought we might have better government if people viewed serving in the legislature with the same joy they do jury duty. Never figured out a way to run the experiment.
J R in WV
@Salty Sam:
Personally, I support AOC and Omar and Pressley prettymuch totally. I’m glad there are congressional districts that are willing and happy to elect such progressive Democratic congress critters.
So maybe you should hold back a little bit on Balloon-Juice jackals and support for the progressive Democratic members of the Congress?
‘Cause I’m pretty sure I’m not the only person here who supports these very liberal and progressive members of Congress.
Also want to point out that these folks are so hugely likely to have everything they say distorted and misinterpreted [ and lied about!! ] by less progressive people, like conservative Democrats and all Republicans and all racists.
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: Sure, but the Dems will work with the GOP to make it workable and then the GOP won’t vote for it.
That’s the downside to keeping your caucus together. It becomes pointless to even try to work with them because the only thing they value is credit, not outcomes.
Martin
@Kelly: Yeah, it wasn’t a bad compromise, but the only way you can say it was good for workers at the lower-end of the income scale is to say that relative to to $7.25, it’s pretty generous. For workers up in the $40K+ range they come out about even with Manchins deal, but if you’re in the $18K category, you came out worse, other than not having to deal with the withholding. That’s not so good.
StringOnAStick
@dr. bloor: The mango moron is also pissed that the RNC, RCCC, and RSCC have not excommunicated the R’s who voted for impeachment. His deepest motivator is revenge, and as far as he’s concerned it’s his party and he wants those people shot into the sun.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
We need low-cost banking for lower income people. Postal banking, Internet banking, whatever.
I would like to see more details about how monthly child tax credit payments will be delivered to people. They will probably use form of debit card in addition to checks, but you need more flexibility.
Geminid
@rikyrah: I think “some on the left don’t want to acknowledge” this enormous win are key words here. Some of these folk are the most stubborn people in politics. Their credulous audience diminishes every day, though, as people on the left get more involved in the real political issues our country faces, and as the pushback by more pragmatic progressives on Twitter and other media intensifies.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: As I just wrote in my newly posted post, everyone gets wrapped around the axle and just assumes that leadership doesn’t know what it’s doing, is bad at their jobs, is acting in bad faith, or some combination. They’re not. They may not always win, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a plan and are working that plan. They now know who has to be worked on over the next couple of months before the minimum wage increase is brought up as a stand alone.
Kropacetic
@opiejeanne: It’s the stepping on his own people that get’s me, but I’m looking for a video with the lyrics. I’m not understanding so well.
Hoppie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Also, please note all, if ACA had been passed through reconciliation, it would have expired last year. Obama got that part right. (And, in this emergency, reconciliation is the way to go).
Morzer
@Geminid: Bismarck was more interested in defeating the Socialists by stealing their more popular ideas.
burnspbesq
@JMG:
Did you see what the markets did over the last two weeks?
J R in WV
@taumaturgo:
@taumaturgo:
These questions, like almost all your comments, are so malformed that I wonder how you passed your English exams to get your job trolling the internet in the US.
This doesn’t make any sense at all in any English speaking place in the whole world. Just not a real sentence in the English language… The situation described in formulating the question is not, has not, will not be a real situation, ever.
Morzer
@opiejeanne: Trump’s more of a Gobbling Thing IMHO
TS (the original)
@Mary G:
So good to hear this – The GOP decided the Obama nominee should never be heard – pleased that Biden & Schumer had better ideas.
PST
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Definitely not. Members of the squad are from solid blue districts and have many constituents who see eye-to-eye with their progressive wing views. Underwood is from the purple outer suburbs of Chicago and has moderate, middle-of-the-party views. She is an excellent democrat for her district.
Bill Arnold
@Major Major Major Major:
I’ve really enjoyed Eric Levitz’s take on many topics, including here. He’s solidly left, but thinks clearly. From the thread:
burnspbesq
@Salty Sam:
No one is requiring you to stay here if you find it tiresome.
Morzer
@Bill Arnold: Anyone who thinks that the party of FDR and Obama is indistinguishable from the party of Marjorie Traitor Greene and Trump really needs a brain implant.
hueyplong
@burnspbesq: I for one consider my position vis-a-vis Rose Twitter to be more sneering contempt than butthurt.
Major Major Major Major
@Hoppie:
Not quite. Reconciliation bills can’t increase the deficit after an arbitrary ten-year window, so oftentimes their benefits expire around then, but the process only lends itself to self-destructing bills, it’s not actually required. Any regulations passed via reconciliation, for instance, can be forever.
J R in WV
@Starfish:
Debt to fight a WAR isn’t really debt at all, just ask a Republican.
You can’t be a fiscal conservative unless you support borrowing Billions of dollars per month to fight a war against black or brown or Communist or Socialist peoples!!
That’s just common sense!!!!! Right? ;~)
Major Major Major Major
@Martin:
I mean, these are literal GOP bills, I’m not talking about amending Dem legislation here. Begin debate, do your amendments, file cloture, see what happens. The senate can walk and chew gum.
CODave
@Brachiator: Remember, we have Glock Barbie (Lauren Boebert) as one of our reps.
burnspbesq
@Brachiator:
Whatever it is, Texas is OD’ing.
It’s entertaining, and enlightening, to watch the page on CVS website that tracks vaccine availability. The last places with available appointments are ALWAYS Amarillo, Midland/Odessa, Lubbock, and Tyler. I had to drive to San Marcos (45 miles each way) to get mine, because any store closer to Austin sells out instantly.
burnspbesq
@taumaturgo:
Sure they could, but what would be the point?
Major Major Major Major
@burnspbesq: I know that cognitive dissonance is one of their specialties, but I can’t get over how the people insisting we must ditch our masks and open back up immediately and end the ‘tyranny’ caused by this pandemic… don’t want to do the one thing that will end the pandemic.
@burnspbesq: to make taumaturgo feel good, of course.
Kropacetic
@burnspbesq: Yet if he remains here, he’s free to argue his position whenever he disagrees with other posters.
burnspbesq
@Morzer:
Which is an odd thing for a guy who lives in a place where two-bedroom apartments go for $2,000 a month to think.
burnspbesq
@Major Major Major Major:
Republicans are all about personal responsibility, so Abbott decided to be personally responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths.
J R in WV
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I can, with no difficulty, imagine how great an imaginary loaf of bread will taste… better that Grandma’s home made bread, right?
Oh, wait! no… just Nope!!!
There go two miscreants
If the RNC et al had enough sense of humor, they’d send out some fundraisers using Biden’s term for Dump: The Former Guy. They wouldn’t raise much, but they would sure twist his nose!
Geminid
@PST: Lauren Underwood is an excellent Democratic Representative for any district, I think. And I think she could win in Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’s district with her political profile, while Ocasio-Cortez could not win in Underwood’s. This is not to say that Ocasio-Cortez is not a capable and hardworking legislator. But the NY 14th can only be but so left if Joe Biden ran ahead her in last November’s voting, which I believe he did.
James E Powell
@burnspbesq:
And $2000/month for 2BR in Irvine would be the lowest end of the market. I’m trying to think where that would be.
J R in WV
@Geminid:
OK, your description of the events and Roberts is actually hysterically funny.
Wife was Sec Treasurer of her national local union.
Also covered United Mine Workers of America conventions. Both of which used Roberts Rules. She was amazed at how many coal miners took the time to memorize the Roberts Rules so as to deal with the leadership of the UMWA during the convention.
Management is management, whether it’s a union or a corporation, right? Right!
J R in WV
@Ken:
I served jury duty several times, I got paid same as if I had just worked, and learned a whole lot about other things that developed during the trials. Two were murder cases, one was a major claim against the state government.
I was foreman on one of the murder trial juries, the jury tried to elect me on the second murder trial, I said “Do you guys really think it’s fair to select me twice in one court session?” and they picked another guy.
Then I spent my birthday evening working to get a verdict, which we arrived at around 11 pm the evening of my birthday. Not guilty in both murder cases… Was a long night that second time.!!! Wife had a nice cake waiting for me, though.
J R in WV
@burnspbesq:
OK, this is one of the funniest posts you have ever made! Thanks!
J R in WV
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