The huge coronavirus relief bill working its way to President Joe Biden’s desk includes a plan to raise the child tax credit. It's a change that could end up permanently altering the way the country deals with child poverty. https://t.co/oNpPnK6LoA
— The Associated Press (@AP) March 8, 2021
Without the two new Democratic senators in Georgia, the GOP Death Cult would’ve gotten their chance to strangle the American Rescue Act before it could be passed. (Thank you, Stacey Abrams!)
There are a couple million people in Georgia who have helped tens of millions of children across America https://t.co/yTUUkgdkZL
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 10, 2021
We can afford sarcasm, now!
Nation deeply divided over relief package; 40% sat Biden didn’t negotiate in good faith, while 40% say that Republicans did https://t.co/PmaFPUUhMM
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 9, 2021
this bill makes a big material difference in hundreds of millions of lives, vaccinations are on rocket blasters and fiscal conservatives are crying big wet tears, this absolutely owns.
— cobras for alligators scheme machine (@golikehellmachi) March 6, 2021
Today will be a good day.
There is apparently a new report out on the 2020 election that won’t make liberals happy.
ETA: those two points are separate thoughts. It’ll be a good day because of the bill.
@mali muso: Good morning.
@marklar: who cares?
I’d like to know exactly what in the ARP is not COVID relief-related.
Good Morning Everyone ???
@Baud: What new report?
It was on MJ this morning, but apparently the report is a week old. I think this is it.
“Area Man Full Of Shit”
The Child Tax Credit measurably improved my children’s lives when it was first enacted, and it wasn’t all that generous. But for a single mom making about $25k a year at the time it really helped. We’ve come so far from the days when women and children were routinely impoverished after a divorce, and that was considered normal.
@mali muso: @rikyrah: Good morning ?
@mali muso, @Baud, @rikyrah:
Good morning! ?
In reality, probably nothing. In Rethuglican world, anything they think might give a sliver of hope or help to anyone who is not they or their sycophants.
@Baud: probably needs to be evaluated with this latest information
This bill is going to help so many people.
I can’t wait for it to get signed
@Baud: I mentioned it in one of my comments last week. Defund the police and socialism is wonderful, turned off a lot of potential D voters especially among immigrant communities.
FWIW I could see it as it was happening.
It’s apparently based on survey data rather than people guessing on Twitter. I don’t endorse the findings, however, because I haven’t read it.
@rikyrah: Republicans wrote it?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@rikyrah: That is a totally crazy pants statement. And the man is a US senator
Typical QPUBLICAN ?
@Baud: Thanks! I saw that last week and thought about doing a post on it, but I decided it was too depressing to think about. Perils of an extra-large tent!
A mask mandate in a full restaurant?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@germy: So are they sending the ballot despite his having missed the deadline? Inquiring minds want to know
Some of us told you that shyt was stupid.
@Baud: Hmmm. Disturbing. Of course in the time it took me to skim the article there are already a number of other comments on it here so it will take me a while to digest everything. Thanks
Yes and I want that said out loud on national broadcasts.
@satby: oh, fuck this endlessly reloading site. Had my last comment not been labelled a duplicate again, I would have followed up that link with the comment about how we already knew Russian disinformation campaigns affected the elections and are trying to affect the vaccine rollouts. We need to counter disinfo campaigns in any community they crop up.
@Baud: I did scan it. Survey data confirms what we suspected would happen, was happening.
It’s seems like the meta problem we have is the ease with which a lot of people see the Dems as a unitary bloc whose characteristics are defined by whatever pisses them off. Our right flank sees us as socialists and our left flank sees us as corporatists. I don’t know how we solve that problem.
@rikyrah: The problem with our media including blogs like this one they see everything through the POV of a certain cross section of white people. And it is not representative of the Democratic electorate.
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
That’s what it sounds like.
Rules are for the little peeps.
@rikyrah: Piers Morgan has the tiniest dick in the universe. Don’t know. Just speculating. But I still think my speculations are right.
@Baud: I would listen to people who can win and have won national elections.
The other thing that was mentioned on MJ this morning is that very few Latinos consider immigration reform a high priority.
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The article says, “Mail ballots can be requested through Tuesday but must be picked up in person by the voter or a designee.” So I guess the Former Guy can send a minion over to pick it up.
Oh, rikyrah, I can’t resist Noel Casler. I have work to do, dammit!
Chinese entrepreneur sells pensive Donald Trump Buddha statues.
That limits us to Biden and Obama.
@Baud: That’s as succinct and accurate a statement of the problem as I’ve ever seen. I don’t know how we solve it either, but wrapping our minds around the problem is a good start, so well done!
An old article from September:
Not just Russian disinfo anymore. We’re now getting that zesty homegrown stuff.
Okay, so it’s just a tweet, not a thread. I’ll see if there’s more later.
@Betty Cracker: Thanks!
Gin & Tonic
Aggressive day skiing yesterday and my legs feel pretty good this morning. Not bad for an old dude.
@Baud: Again this comes from the media lumping all Latinos in one group. There are different constituencies among those huge groups. Not all Latinos are immigrants.
Piers Morgan is now tweeting Churchill quotes about free speech.
Here’s one of the replies he got, since he’s going with Churchill quotes:
(The Great Man’s thoughts on the “Red Indian” and “Black People of Australia”)
@Baud: Most Latino voters are either born here or came here a long time ago, immigration reform doesn’t help them and may undercut them in the job market
ETA: Latino also covers a wide variety of folk, it’s really not a useful demographic
ETA2: Also, The Former Guy just did really well with men. He projected a macho style(odd for a guy who wears makeup). Part of it is due to his show on the TV machine, they saw that as reality. So, there’s a good chance it doesn’t transfer to GOP support in the future. Sort of like Arnold here in CA.
So a smaller percentage of Americans think the COVID relief bill is socialism. Maybe the anti-socialists can burn their relief checks.
@Baud: That’s a start. I would also listen to Ds who win in purple and red districts and states. Rather than listen to people who call themselves socialists and insist that there is a secret socialist majority waiting for the right leader.
REALIGNMENT COMIN’, COMIN’ DOWN THE TRACKS!
But keep reading Dr. Seuss to your constituents, Requblicans!
Right. I’m sure the numbers vary among subgroups. The question is which which groups are significant for us electorally.
Anyway, as I’ve said before, our goal is winning elections, not preserving our sky high share of minority votes. In a more idealized world, our share of whites should increase, while the GOP should gain votes from more conservative non-whites. Racism is why the parties are comprised the way they currently are (and why the GOP is not really a functioning political party anymore).
OMG, I’m so excited! I’M ELIGIBLE AND GOT SIGNED UP FOR MY FIRST SHOT NEXT FRIDAY, MARCH 19TH!. I just want to cry, I’m so happy about it. I didn’t expect that.
If the guy on MJ this morning is to be believed, Trump actually made more gains with Hispanic women than men (possibly because the baseline for men was different).
@schrodingers_cat: let me introduce you to the last election, where nobody did.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Soprano2: Yay! Isn’t it amazing? Add that to the absence of the former guy, and it makes you light headed
I’m happy for you. It’s so good to make that appointment and even better when you get that first shot. The relief is overwhelming.
@germy: For someone who “decided that it was time to leave his current position”, he is sounding a lot like someone who was fired.
@WaterGirl: The conversation went like this:
Boss: You’re fired!
PM: You can’t fire me, I Quit!
He decided to leave his current position as soon as he learned it was his former position.
According to Rep. Jason Smith-MO (R-Asshole) on “Morning Edition” today, anything that’s not a direct check or about vaccines is just liberal pork, and what we really need is for everyone to just open everything up and all the kids go back to 5-day in-person school right now, and everything would be great. They can’t admit out loud that they want everything to suck so they can run on it next year. OH, and he thinks that once people “see what’s in it” it won’t be popular. Yeah, those people with kids who are getting money every month are going to be really angry. *rolleyes
@Baud: True. As we’ve discussed here ad nauseum, a two-party system like ours needs two parties. Right now, ALL serious policy debate and compromise take place within one party. It’s just not sustainable forever.
We need the goddamned Republicans to crack up and reconstitute themselves as “conservatives” again. Or else WE’LL fall apart and the lunatics will take over again, which doesn’t bear thinking about.
The funny thing, reading the quote Piers chose
could literally describe his reaction when he stormed off the set of ‘Good Morning Britain’.
Yet the coalition who supported or could at least tolerate discussion of these ideas beat the one that didn’t.
@schrodingers_cat: Did the phrase “defund the police” turn off those voters or just the protests themselves? I agree that the slogan is a mistake, but I doubt it had that much of an impact in the greater scheme of things.
I can see how moderate to conservative members of minority communities might have been more inclined to support Trump because of BLM. But what should Dems or the AA community have done differently? It’s an important issue that needed to be addressed. It sucks that it cost us some votes, but I think it’s a price worth paying.
That said, my pet theory is that the pandemic actually helped trump in some ways. By opposing masks and lockdowns, he was able to appeal to people upset about job losses and the economic downturn.
Well this is a dynamic problem that requires a more dynamic solution than tax cuts for the uber-wealthy.
Cancel BLM, duh…
Also, between Trump on the ballot and the pandemic, I don’t know that we can draw any firm conclusions from the 2020 election. I think Trump is an extreme outlier whose voters are hard to predict.
@Soprano2: Wonderful news! I just found out that as a youth sports instructor, I’m part of Group 1B in LA County. So now I just gotta find somewhere to get my shot. I know my local Planned Parenthood just sent something out that they are doing them.
@Baud: @?BillinGlendaleCA: @germy:
Congratulations! You’ll feel even better after you get it!
@rp: I think you’re onto something with both points: the anti-lockdown thing gave T an advantage with some voters, and the unique circumstances of 2020 make it risky to draw broad conclusions.
Lifelong Republicans who will continue to show, as many have long known, that they never believed any of their principles and it was all about moneypower.
Faux libertarian assholes who will spend the next few years telling everyone voting doesn’t matter then in 2024 will vote for the worst authoritarian Republican shitbag.
People who will go along blithely indifferent to our government for the next 2 to 4 years, then will step in a voting booth and vote the color on their mood ring.
Glad to be of service.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Simpler than that; Same old American story – Hispanics and Blacks compete for the same shitty jobs, so the cops harassing blacks would be a good thing to an Hispanic.
Fun fact, there was a race war in South Oakland, CA between the blacks and hispanics. Since no whites were involved it no one gave a shit.
Crab Bucket politics.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@germy: Their goddess Ayn Raynd was fine with her social security. As Catch 22 pointed it out, socialism is only dangerous when the other guy gets it.
Republican operatives are such shit people, but the AP style guide doesn’t allow reporters to call them that.
Tea Party activists with posters of the sainted Founding Fathers on their walls, who are suddenly supporters of the British Monarchy for some reason.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@schrodingers_cat: Let us note the popularity of the COVID relief money. Yes, it’s socialism, but since it called something else everyone loves it.
“Our arrows just bounce right off his skin!”
This is true, but to be fair a lot of white people (raises hand) could see immediately that slogans like “Defund the Police” were extremely problematic and counterproductive (I cringed the first time I heard it, and knew it was going to cause problems for Democratic candidates). Didn’t that slogan come from black activists?
Gin & Tonic
@UncleEbeneezer: Be careful – if you go to PP for a shot they might force you to get an abortion too.
Society peaked December 14, 1791. All must remain as it was then. The following day the first amendment was ratified and it was all downhill from there. /ConstitutionalOriginalists
@Gin & Tonic: Okay everyone: thread won by G&T. No future comments will be considered. ;-)
I wasn’t too thrilled with the “defund” framing either. Not only does it scare a certain set of people, it lacks precision.
This is workable, though. We have plenty of time before 2022 to reframe this idea, promote the workable pieces, and let the half-baked ideas resume baking.
It would probably help our side more than spending every day bitterly complaining about the left, as some (not you) may be inclined to do.
But the Democrats explicitly never ran on “Defund the police”. That chant came directly from those marching in BLM protests on the streets across the country after a series of violent incidents. Joe Biden, John Ossoff and Rafael Warnock won because they were sympathetic to the cries of outrage by mothers who’d lost their sons to police excess.
There have been clear signs of weakness for Democrats among Latino communities for years and it’s a problem Dems have to deal with but it has nothing to do with BLM. We won the presidency and the Senate in the streets of Atlanta, Milwaukee and Philadelphia.
? Shot in the arm! And you’re to blame, darlin you made COVID a dead name ? ::electric guitar solo::
I’m convinced a lot of people in 2016 thought they were voting for the character they saw on “The Apprentice”.
This is true, but it doesn’t help us blame the left for whatever perceived failings. So can we disregard this?
I hope the reality now is a clown who dances awkwardly to Y.M.C.A.
@Kropacetic: All of that is true, but I’m convinced that Trump was able to (a) get a lot of non-voters to the polls and (b) persuade some traditional Dem voters because of his unique “appeal.” IOW, his combo of racism, showmanship, “rich” guy persona, and outsider status. I don’t think another republican can replicate that easily.
@rp: Many BLM protests were hijacked by cosplay socialist revolutionaries and even some white supremacists who proceeded to destroy, burn down storefronts in mostly minority heavy areas. That turned off a lot of people who actually lived there.
Gee, why could this be? What’s the difference between the two? I can’t quite put my finger on it……/s/s/s/s/s/s Too bad they can’t just say it.
ETA: Thanks, everyone. I’ll just be glad to be able to see my mother without worrying that I’ll give her a disease that might kill her. She gets her 2nd shot the last week of March, as does my husband.
@Kropacetic: It did and for that I am glad. But we lost ground in the Congress and didn’t flip many senate seats that were trending our way if polls were to be believed.
Thank God for the Georgia run offs.
A whoooole lot of people thought they did, and thought ‘defund the police’ meant abolish the police entirely. Granted my relatives are white, but my white liberal relatives thought this and did not like it at all. My leftier friends did not think the Democrats were running on ‘defund the police’ but were pushing Dems to do so and thought it meant abolishing the police entirely.
And they were the only ones. Nary an looting opportunist or white supremacist in sight.
It was all the left. Everything that ever went wrong in the everever was the left.
Thank god there were no BLM protests in Georgia, huh? I didn’t follow too closely but I bet the GA candidates ran hard away from the activists. It must be so as that’s the only way to win, right…?
@schrodingers_cat: I know, and that sucked, but I’m not sure that the protestors could or should have done anything differently. What’s the lesson learned?
@Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, but “a whoooole lot of people” also thought Biden was senile, and for much the same reason – they heard it on Fox, or Facebook, or from RT, or straight from Former Guy’s twitter feed. I don’t see how you stop the opposition from pushing out lies, or other media from amplifying them by reporting what FG twitted.
Concerning Latino voters, here is an article from NPR about a recent action by the Biden administration: Undocumented Venezuelans Given Protected Status in the US
From the article:
As it’s been noted several times in the past, Latino voters are not a monolith and accusations by Former Guy that Biden was too socialist seemed to stuck with some voters who are from Venezuela.
Republicans love them some socialist-bashing but also love that also classic immigrant-bashing. Somehow Former Guy tried to reconcile the two impulses the best he could. Now Biden’s decision may be the first of many to make inroads with the different Latino groups with their own interests and priorities that may translate into votes for Democrats in the next 2 to 4 years.
@Kropacetic: You are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I said. I am glad that we won both the senate seats because that meant that Schumer and not McConnell would be the majority leader
As far as the BLM protests following George Floyd’s killing by the police, I fully supported and even participated in those protests in my area.
That’s because Fox and rightwing media was pushing that narrative. But rightwing media will always push an anti-Democratic narrative. The BLM protests were a legitimate outpouring of grief and anger and demand for change. There was no world where Dems could tell those protesters to “please shut up and go home” and still expect to win in 2020.
Even in the simplest political calculus you don’t toss aside a passionate core of voters in hopes of picking up a few wavering Fox viewers.
Gandhi called off a nationwide non-co-operation movement when protesters burned a police station with police personnel in it.
Gin & Tonic
@Joe Falco: Sure would be nice if they’d devote some resources to resolving the overwhelming backlog of pending applications as well.
@Ken: Leftie accounts that are BS friendly were tweeting that out along with Tara Reade stuff before Fox and RW got its paws on it.
BS left is going to be our electoral poison. They tried and succeeded in sabotaging HRC they tried and failed with Biden. They are going to try sabotaging the Ds again in 2022 whether they succeed or fail is anybody’s guess.
I am not suggesting in any way that Dems do that. It would be both immoral and bad politics. I am saying that the specific ‘defund the police’ slogan got through to the mushy middle and was interpreted as complete abolishment of the police, and was not liked. I am saying that if you are looking at what might have turned off some voters we would ordinarily have gotten and people say that slogan had an effect, my anecdotal evidence says it did.
@schrodingers_cat: It’s called sarcasm. Sorry, I thought the blatantly false premises of each first sentence would make that clear.
That’s fine as far as it goes. But to do so while categorically rejecting their proposed solutions, not offering alternatives, and banging on about it constantly comes across kind of…elite? detached?
Wh…whh…whwhwh…what is the word I’m looking for?
Also, too, half-baked ideas don’t become fully baked if you just leave them on the table.
@schrodingers_cat: Most of the hardest-core police abolitionists I saw around were not white, in fact they spoke of pro-police sentiment as a very white thing.
@Betty Cracker: Franklin Roosevelt and other New Deal Democrats did not worry too much about the state of the Republican party. They just delivered good governance, and won 5 presidential elections that way. I think this coalition is good for at least three presidential cycles, if it can deliver good governance.
But I would not worry about having too big a tent just yet. President Biden carried Pennsylvania by only 80,000 out of 6.5 million cast, and Raphael Warnock won his Georgia Senate seat by 90,000 out of 4.4 million. A smaller tent party might not have pulled off these victories.
Anyway, ideological differences within the Democratic party are just not that great. If you compared the positions of the 10th most liberal and the 10th most conservative Democratic House members, across a broad range of policies, how much difference would you find, and how much commonality? Not much difference on policy, I think, more on the messaging to their constituents. Its a big tent for sure, but its not that wide a tent.
The fact that he attempts to make up for it by acting like one of the biggest dicks in the world sort of confirms your theory.
Oh wait. He’s not acting…..
@rikyrah: “Dude he’s a pederast, yeah but Jesus can roll man…”
@Matt McIrvin: But how representative are they of the black electorate that votes D?I follow many black accounts on Twitter who thought it was a bad slogan even though they were not too fond of the police themselves
Perhaps there are some surveys out there and may be some of our own commenters can shed more light on this.
Has Champ bitten any Republicans today? If so, Good boy! If not, why not, Champ?
@Geminid: Just look at the common policy ground shared by the serious candidates during the primary. Each could have run on the platform of any of the others with very few edits. Concentrating too much on the differences is dangerous. Better to emphasize common goals.
I just read there is some major flooding going on in Hawaii. I have not seen NotMax here today. Anyone able to check up on him?
I got my first Pfizer vaccine yesterday at the University of Buffalo. It was arranged and done very well. I had one small later in the day greeting from the site of the vaccine on my arm and it left as fast as it came.
I would also like to say:
We won. The Nazi vote thinks Trump betrayed them, so he’s not coming back. Trump is a one-off. GOP voters will still pursue hard racist, ignorant assholes, but they don’t have anyone else who has anywhere near the same set of traits as Trump, especially since ‘Trump gave me a $2000 check’ and ‘We are inches from crushing liberals permanently’ are not going to be sales pitches. Even a returning Trump would not have the same set of appeals. 2020 is outlier data and cannot be trusted as part of any trend line. I don’t think we can take many lessons from it going forward.
And, ultimately, we won.
This is anecdata based, but as long as we are all doing it…. I don’t think the people who used BLM and defund the police as an excuse to not vote for Democrats were ever potential Democratic voters in the first place. My experience was that people were able to draw a sharp line between BLM protesters and people drawn to the protests as a chance to riot and/or loot. I wouldn’t worry too much about those who chose not to do that.
J R in WV
NotMax commented about the flooding the other day and said he was in no danger from it at that point — so probably OK.
And of course, right now it’s pre-dawn out there.
@schrodingers_cat: As a 61-year old black woman who supported Biden from the beginning, I would have been crushed if he had gotten anywhere in the neighborhood of a slogan as vague as “defund the police”. Me, I cringed when I heard it and thought how super stupid (and politically damaging) those words are for furthering an agenda. On the other hand, my 40-year old daughter bristles when I call it a slogan. She is assuming most people KNOW that they don’t want to actually defund police departments but to filter money into other ways of policing. Like you, I also think this cost votes. Many of us are “say what you mean, mean what you say” kinda of folks. I’m taking a person’s words at face value – not trying to figure out what they really mean.
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It is NOT socialism. Socialism is ownership of the means of production by the state/country. Socialism is not giving people money or taking care of them ; that is just ameliorated capitalism! It doesn’t change the ruling class.
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe you’re right, and I agree when you say there’s more that unites us than divides us. But this branch of the discussion was kicked off by a reference to David Shor’s 2020 voter data analysis (link shared by Baud* at #10). Shor says there were small but significant movements among voters, including increased support for Trump by people who did not vote for him in 2016. He says they were persuaded by the “law and order” crap and may be susceptible to further culture war bullshit going forward. He could be wrong, but it’s worth considering.
*Baud is dividing us. That much is clear, at least.
@Geminid: I found myself agreeing with oh about 110% of this!
Yup. I’d say 2 cycles, and only if we take swift action on numerous fronts. We are the center-center party at this point: if we’re going to be the only party, we’re in a good place!
I worry about those narrow margins and all the built-in advantages the Rs have. We need to move quickly on the John Lewis Act, DC statehood, and more.
This is true. Dems cover a wide spectrum of races, gender and gender issues, ages, education levels, and income levels; Rs – especially their elected officials – are much less diverse.
@Betty Cracker: There is a reason they are mega-doubling down on anti-trans bills at the state level and CANCEL CULTURE at the national media level. They think they can chip off Dem support with it. When you’re anti-policy, culture war is all you have. They’ve been like that for awhile, but it’s getting worse I think.
That would make an awesome rotating tag. If only it were true, I might try to sneak it in.
The Thin Black Duke
Bottom line, big things happen when it’s easier for black people to vote. Sound bites, bumper stickers and op-eds in the NYT aren’t necessary for brothers and sisters to understand what the priorities are.
@Betty Cracker: I’ll refer back to my earlier comment in the thread then. Emphasizing what we have have in common rather than highlighting differences should help with the people who are on our side but have trouble with some (perceived) policy. If I have 80%+ agreement with any major politician, I am lucky. I think that this is true of most people.
No, not the commenter. Don’t you get it?
It’s the signal . . . the signal, maaaaaa
The signal’s gonna get us.
I have not yet determined if Baud the commenter is the conduit. Too obvious? Or is that what they want you to think?
@Betty Cracker: People with actual lived experience of socialism don’t find it all that enticing. HRC won Vietnamese immigrants but Biden did not.
When Roses argue that BS version of socialism is like Denmark not Venezuela it is not particularly reassuring because like many other countries with a generous social safety net Denmark is hostile to its immigrants.
@The Thin Black Duke: That might well be the simplest and easiest answer to all of this. If we make voting easier for everyone, good things happen. I think our ideas are better and, if everyone can vote, they will win.
James E Powell
It wasn’t Democrats saying “defund the police,” it was Republicans and the very huge right-wing propaganda network screaming, “Democrats want to defund the police!”
As long as the right-wing has that propaganda network, Democrats and their ideas will be defined by their enemies.
@Baud: I think I read a Twitter thread about this. Comments pointed out that since people and families had horrible experiences with Socialism/Communism in their native countries, anything or anyone that hints of socialism is a turnoff.
The Thin Black Duke
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes. That’s the reason why the GOP is dialing their voter suppressing efforts to 11. The majority of black voters don’t listen to their propaganda.
@WaterGirl: Obviously it’s true, I read it on Balloon Juice. It was even from noted front-pager Betty Cracker.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
It’s nice to read that the country as a whole is progressing nicely with vaccinations, but things are pretty rough here in PA. And in our particular area, our four closest counties (Philly suburbs) are complaining to the state that they are getting far fewer vaccines than the rural counties.
One hopeful sign: We got out of the house yesterday for a couple of contact-free errands, and noticed that the CVS has a bunch of temporary structures going up in the parking lot and a sign about a clinic. I assume that is a vaccination clinic they are standing up. So I have some hope that there’s a bunch more coming down the pipe.
It’s all first-world problems. Our lockdown life is sustainable. Main issue is we’re both noticing our own version of what we’re reading is a widespread phenomenon of “covid brain”: you make stupid mistakes, you can’t concentrate, you forget basic things like people’s names, etc.
Side note: Really annoying bug. The Visual tab is still broken in Firefox, I can live with that. But when you edit a comment in Text mode, all of the paragraph breaks get removed and you get an unreadable wall of text.
Gawd, we’re still doing the “defund the police” thing.
The problem isn’t the existence of the slogan. The problem is the non-existence of a choice.
Not being able to articulate what we want means that the choice is now between “defund the police” and the status quo. It’s like having a choice in the 1960s between Malcolm X and segregation. Yeah, that kind of choice is gonna turn some people off to change.
There needs to be a spectrum of options. The real choice is between change and the status quo. And by offering another option, you lower the barriers to acceptance of ANY policy that challenges the status quo.
Don’t just condemn “defund the police”….offer a choice and a different vision.
@stacib: Thanks for your perspective. Some older Ds (white and very liberal) on my Dem Town Committee had a similar perspective
It IS true: Baud, as the Dividerer-in-Chief, is dividing us into two groups: those who voted for him, and anti-American traitors.
He’s making a list, checking it twice, gonna
find outdecide who’s not a Baud voternaughty and nice
Majorie Taylor Green has been kicked off all the House committees, 11 GOP people joined in the vote. Good riddance.. now she’ll just be fucking around in the hallways. She essentially has no influence in policy from here on in other than general assembly House votes.
ETA – #150 ! The day is just getting better all the time!
The Covid relief bill is not socialism. It’s a return on investment for all the ordinary people who carry the tax burden that the wealthy refuse to carry.
Huge difference between socialism and communism, the various authoritarian communist regimes which people have fled. And most of the Vietnamese immigrants fled before the North took over, although many had experienced some form of brutality during the war there.
Sadly, most European countries have problems with the way they treat their immigrants. No one can point to this as a particular failure of socialism. And here in the US, those conservatives who most detest socialism, embrace the efforts of the extreme right wing Danes who are nationalist and anti-immigrant.
People are right to be wary of the failed socialism of Venezuela or Cuba, which is also authoritarian. And there are lefties who still refuse to criticize Cuba, or who think that the problems there are solely because of sanctions.
But Venezuela and Bolivia have been failed regimes not just because of the inept way in which they implemented socialism, but because of pushback from the racist European middle and upper classes which are determined to crush the indigenous and nonwhite populations of their country. Hugo Chavez was hated in part because of his indigenous and African heritage and his desire to break the class system as much as he was hated for his economic policies.
@Kathleen: I thought I deleted this comment.
@James E Powell: It wasn’t Democrats saying “defund the police,” it was Republicans and the very huge right-wing propaganda network screaming, “Democrats want to defund the police!”
Wrong. AOC for one is on record saying “Defund the Police means Defund the Police”.
@tam1MI: I remember seeing that.
@Brachiator: So you agree that socialism comes with a lot of baggage for many constituencies with a good reason.
@schrodingers_cat: Who ran on socialism?
True, but it isn’t a broadly accepted party position. Biden certainly didn’t run on it, AOC was reelected, and people can make choices how to run in their district and advocate for the public.
There are good ideas under the “defund the police” banner. Let’s find them and cultivate them, while maybe working to get broader acceptance of a better slogan.
Mike has officially gone around the bend. There’s saying the quiet parts out loud, and then basically admitting you don’t think much of this “democracy” thing.
See where you’re losing me is that Joe Biden is the socialist in your example. Anybody who was convinced that he is the second coming of the Viet Cong was never going to vote for any Democrat.
@Jinchi: That is my concern as well. Is this another instance of chasing people like the WWC who aren’t reachable?
No. I do not. Many Americans are simply ignorant about what happens anywhere else in the world, and so are easily duped by conservative pundits.
The big lie is that Democracy equals capitalism.
And “socialism” is used by the Fox News set to mean “Democrats want to take everything away from white people and give it to undeserving blacks and Hispanics.”
A Ghost to Most
@Frankensteinbeck: Based on my contacts with the fascists, and the election results, “Defund the Police” was used by the right to much success against Democrats. It was stupid, and counterproductive.
@Jinchi: It’s not that Biden is any more socialist than Clinton. The trump campaign had a very effective social media microtargeting campaign. His win in 2016 made the most of targeting voters white voters with these efforts, and African American voters were targeted with ads intended to discourage them from voting at all. This part of the campaign never really stopped. For 2020, they widened their focus to Spanish language voters, especially in Florida. They most likely hit Vietnamese and other Asian Americans as well. That’s how they propagated the “Democrats are socialist” lie.
@Geminid: My Atlanta friend, who both hated and feared trump, was very concerned about microtargeting through social media. I was not impressed by his warnings, perhaps because I had a snobbish disdain for social media. But reports from Florida before and after the election indicated that trump’s social media campaign targeting Spanish language voters was highly effective. The Biden campaign was short on cash until the end of last summer. Then they tried to fire back, but two months of messaging was not enough to counter the two years of Republican propaganda.
@Jinchi: He is not a socialist but the BS wing of the Democratic coalition is active on the social media and helps in R branding of Ds as out of the mainstream.
@Omnes Omnibus: The article Baud referred to is about the R gains among some immigrant and minority groups compared to 2016 not reaching out WWC.
Roses continue outreach to other Ds by tweeting out guillotines at them.
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Thanks for that information, presented so clearly.
@Yutsano: I think that article was from several months ago.
Well why don’t these GQP assclowns draft something better? Oh right! They’re still working on the ACA replacement!
And seriously, “written in hell by the devil himself”? Oh you suckers of Satan’s cock.
J R in WV
Well said — so well said that I wanted to repeat it to support it myself!
Never forget that the GQP and their Right Wing nutjobs will call everything they hate socialism, even when it’s as far as you can get from socialism. A social Safety net is NOT socialism; Social Security pension and disability coverage is NOT socialism!
On the other hand, giant Military-Industrial corporations making every penny of their huge profit from the Government payment — that creeps really close to socialism, and the GQP right wing loves that part of our system. Funny, isn’t it!?!!!
J R in WV
I’ll give you Ocazio-Cortez and her tiny progressive organization — they are a tiny minority of the Democratic Party, which did not and does not believe in that slogan or what it says.
The Democratic Party does believe we should restructure Policing so that cops who get in fights with otherwise peaceful citizens get fired right off, instead of waiting for them to kill their 4th innocent victim. I believe that as well.
They shouldn’t get a second / third/ fourth chance at other departments, either. One and done, drive a truck if you can’t be a good cop!