Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

I really should read my own blog.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Come on, man.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

So many bastards, so little time.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Tuesday / Wednesday, March 30-31

COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Tuesday / Wednesday, March 30-31

by | 42 Comments

This post is in: ,

Speaking of zombies… Sorry this is so late; there was a *lot* to process tonight. And while my laptop has a new battery and is doing fine, spring allergies have reduced my wetware (brain) processing speed considerably!

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…As Hubert wrote in a separate blog post, however, this does not mean that anyone is going to be homebrewing either vaccine soon in a “distributed manufacturing revolution.” Hubert detailed the ridiculously complicated supply chain that powers the pharmaceutical companies’ vaccine manufacturing, which involves numerous complex ingredients, DNA and mRNA production in specialized facilities, and combining mRNA and lipids into lipid nanoparticles (LNPs), the last of which perhaps only a number of experts in the “low hundreds” know how to do. The final steps, including formulation where the LNPs are mixed with other more generic ingredients and are filled into vials, also require specialized knowledge and equipment—with subsequent distribution to patients being its own daunting technical challenge…

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This is great news — Vermont has a lot of old, poor people. (It also has the advantage that they’re mostly White):

Reader Interactions

42Comments

  1. 1.

    NeenerNeener

    Monroe County, NY stats:

    New cases = 154
    2379 active cases
    2.1% test positivity
    1203 deaths

    248,514 residents have at least 1 vaccine dose (33.5% of Monroe County population)
    142,685 are completely vaccinated

  2. 2.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    Greece just had its worst day yet for new cases: 4340, when the previous high was 3586 on March 23. 741 COVID patients intubated. 72 dead for Monday-into-Tuesday, for a total death toll of 8017 (out of a population of 10.72 million). Wastewater analysis shows viral loads stabilizing or dropping, but that won’t be reflected in the case numbers for a couple of weeks.

    Vaccinations are still limited to 60-64 (AstraZeneca) or 70-and-up (Pfizer/Moderna), healthcare workers, and serious medical conditions.

  3. 3.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Dump killed more Americans than Hitler and Tojo, combined.

  4. 4.

    Mary G

    Orange County’s numbers are fantastic:
    Adjusted Daily Case Rate per 100,000
    2.8

    Test Positivity Rate
    1.7%

    Health Equity Quartile Positivity Rate
    2.6%

    Two numbers in the orange level and one in the yellow. This puts us as the second best CA county of 58. We have officially been promoted to the orange level, despite the fact that the rules say we had to wait three weeks to move down. We are still run by Republicans at the local levels, so businesses who’ve been champing at the bit are getting their way. More than 1.4 million doses of vaccine have been administered.

    It may not last:

    LA Times: Things are looking sunnier in California, and it’s not just the weather. COVID-19 hospitalizations are down 28% from two weeks ago. The number of average daily coronavirus cases is down 16% since then, dipping below 3,000 per day. It feels like a world away from the winter surge, when average daily cases hovered around a staggering 45,000 on Dec. 22.

    But experts and public health officials are growing increasingly worried that the rise in cases seen in other parts of the U.S. and in Europe could eventually dim California’s hard-won progress on the pandemic.

    “Certainly in California, there’s a very good chance that we’re going to have a brief honeymoon, and then it will get worse again. I wouldn’t be surprised,” said Dr. Stefano Bertozzi, professor of health policy and dean emeritus of the UC Berkeley School of Public Health.

  5. 5.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Who knew the Ayn Rand’s “The Virtue of Selfishness” was a suicide pact?

  6. 6.

    Rob

    Thanks as always, Anne Laurie, for posting these daily updates. They are among the first things I read in the morning.

  7. 7.

    NotMax

    From earlier in the month:

    San Diego Zoo’s Great Apes Receive First Experimental Covid-19 Vaccine for Animals
    Five bonobos and four orangutans were treated with a synthetic form of the virus Source

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    FYI.

    Although personal protective equipment is necessary in fighting the spread of COVID-19, a new report found that the large increase in use of disposable masks and gloves is polluting the world’s oceans and waterways.
    [snip]
    The data of PPE collected only accounts for the second half of 2020, leaving many Ocean Conservancy experts to believe that the amount of PPE collected is a vast undercount.

    “That is just in the last 6 months — tip of the iceberg really — when it comes to the amount of PPE that’s out there,” said Sarah Kollar, Ocean Conservancy’s outreach manager. “We have to take in to mind that volunteer efforts were greatly decreased because of the safety concerns with the pandemic.” Source

  9. 9.

    YY_Sima Qian

    On 3/30 China reported 6 new domestic confirmed & 3 new domestic asymptomatic cases.

    Yesterday, Ruili in Yunnan Province reported 6 new domestic confirmed (1 moderate & 5 mild) & 3 new domestic asymptomatic cases. Of the 6 new domestic confirmed cases, 1 is a Burmese national and 5 are Chinese nationals. All 3 new domestic asymptomatic cases are Burmese nationals. Apparently the 1st case was found during regular screening of retail sales and logistics personnel at a jade trade market near one  of the border crossings with Myanmar. That kicked off a mass screening and contact tracing effort that discovered the other positive cases. As of 8 AM on 3/31, 317 F1 & F2 close contacts have been traced and placed under centralized quarantine. All residents at the community where the jade trade market and the border crossing are located have been tested. All residents in Ruili will be tested by end of 3/31. The city has been placed under lock down, a cordon sanitaire setup around it, and all residents are confined to homes for 1 week (1 start). 1 pass will be granted to each household per day to venture outside to shop for daily necessities. All businesses other than supermarkets, produce markets & pharmacies are closed. Anyone who has left Ruili since 3/14 needs to register with the local neighborhood committee and get tested immediately.

    Imported Cases

    On 3/30 China reported 5 new imported confirmed cases, 5 imported asymptomatic cases, 1 suspect case:

    • Guangzhou in Guangdong Province – 2 confirmed cases, a Chinese and a foreign national returning from Bangladesh; 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from Bangladesh
    • Foshan in Guangdong Province – 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from Namibia, off a flight that landed at Guangzhou
    • Fuzhou in Fujian Province – 1 confirmed cases (previously asymptomatic), a Chinese national returning from Japan
    • Zhengzhou in Henan Province – 1 confirmed case, no information released
    • Xi’an in Shaanxi Province – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Azerbaijan
    • Nanjing in Jiangsu Province – 3 asymptomatic cases, no information released
    • Hohhot in Inner Mongolia “Autonomous” Region – 1 suspect case, no information released

     

    Overall in China, 4 confirmed cases recovered, 14 asymptomatic cases were released from isolation & 2 were reclassified as confirmed cases, and 552 individuals were released from quarantine. Currently, there are 180 active confirmed cases in the country (171 imported), 2 in critical/serious condition (imported), 255 asymptomatic cases (252 imported), 3 suspect cases (all imported). 4,792 traced contacts are currently under centralized quarantine.

    As of 3/30, 114.690M vaccine doses have been injected in Mainland China, an increase of 3.728M doses in the past 24 hrs.

    On 3/31, Hong Kong reported 6 new cases, 5 imported & 1 domestic (source of infection not identified).

  10. 10.

    NotMax

    Good on the mayor.

    As tourism picks up on Maui, concerns are growing that visitors and residents are being too lax with safety precautions.
    [snip]
    [Mayor Mike] Victorino issued a stern warning to visitors….

    “You see these people on the beach back here, they’re visitors and they’re not wearing masks,” he said. “I tell you right now, as far as I’m concerned if you can’t obey our rules, don’t come if you can’t wear a mask or do what is right.”

    He added, “I don’t care if you come from Texas, I don’t care if you come from Mississippi, or any state that doesn’t require it. Here in Hawaii and Maui County, it is a mandate.”

    There were more than 25,000 visitors to Maui from Friday to Sunday alone. Source

  11. 11.

    debbie

    My doctor’s office now requires patients to wear paper masks for appointments. I had a cloth mask over a paper mask, so I was okay, but anyone with just a cloth mask was given a paper mask to wear instead. Not sure why; all I got was some fuzzy talk about directives from the regional office.

  12. 12.

    Cermet

    When you point out that “people (would) rush out to restaurants and amusement parks” if there are slightly fewer zombies that would make sense. These people would be safe because they don’t have enough brains to interest said zombies – i.e. they are typical repub voters.

  13. 13.

    gkoutnik

    @NotMax: I agree.  Good on him.  But will he enforce the mandate?  Successfully?  That’s always been the stumbling block.  To those calling for Biden to issue a nationwide mask mandate – what Federal force will he use to enforce it?  And if he directs state-level authorities to do the enforcing, won’t we end up with pretty much what we’ve got now?

    Federal aid to each state for the rest of the year could be made to depend on effective enforcement of a national mask mandate in each state – but that would end up hurting the powerless, and hurting the powerful not at all.  Is there a hill worth dying on?

  14. 14.

    John S.

    The peddler of nonsense from the last link is Naomi Wolf. And RFK Jr. is one of the biggest anti-vaxxers out there pumping misinformation.

    Apparently, if you go too far to the left, you end up on the right.

  16. 16.

    Amir Khalid

    Malaysia’s daily Covid-19 numbers. Director-General of Heath Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah reports 1,482 new cases today in his media statement, for a cumulative reported total of 345,500 cases. He also reports seven new deaths today, for a cumulative total of 1,272 deaths — 0.37% of the cumulative reported total, 0.38% of resolved cases.

    There are currently 14,604 active and contagious cases; 164 are in ICU, 81 of them intubated. Meanwhile, 1,070 patients recovered and were discharged, for a cumulative total of 329,624 patients recovered – 95.40% of the cumulative reported total.

    13 new clusters were reported today: Delima Baiduri, Emas Bemban, and Layar in Kedah; Jalan Kingsway, Bulatan Aman, and Jalan Baji in Sarawak; Jalan Hevea Scruciana in Selangor; Jalan Rasmi in Selangor and Kuala Lumpur; Kampung Baru Pasir Putih and Rimbayan in Sabah; Pulau Enoe in Labuan; Jalan Jelawat in Penang and Perak; and Lorong Mulia in Johor.

    Emas Bemban, Layar, Jalan Baji, Kampung Baru Pasir Putih, and Rimbayan are community clusters. Lorong Mulia is a high-risk group cluster. The rest are workplace clusters.

    1,480 new cases today are local infections. Today’s increase in new cases today is largely driven by Selangor, which reports 661 cases: 348 in older clusters, 52 in Jalan Hevea Scruciana and Jalan Rasmi clusters, 165 close-contact screenings, and 96 other screenings. Penang reports an even 200 cases: 17 in older clusters, 87 in Jalan Jelawat cluster, 56 close-contact screenings, and 40 other screenings.

    Sarawak reports 176 cases: 28 in older clusters; 19 in Jalan Kingsway, Bulatan Aman, and Jalan Baji clusters; 82 close-contact screenings; and 47 other screenings.

    Johor reports 86 cases: 12 in older clusters, one in Lorong Mulia cluster, 49 close-contact screenings, and 24 other screenings. Sabah reports 69 cases: six in older clusters, 13 in Kampung Baru Pasir Putih and Rimbayan clusters, 40 close-contact screenings, and 10 other screenings. Kelantan reports 57 cases: 12 in existing clusters, 30 close-contact screenings, and 15 other screenings. Melaka reports 41 cases: 33 in existing clusters, five close-contact screenings, and three other screenings. Kuala Lumpur reports 40 local cases: four in existing clusters, 14 close-contact screenings, and 22 other screenings.

    Kedah reports 37 cases: seven in older clusters, four in Delima Baiduri, Emas Bemban, and Layar clusters, 14 close-contact screenings, and 12 other screenings. Pahang reports 36 cases: 20 in existing clusters, 14 close-contact screenings, and two other screenings. Negeri Sembilan reports 32 cases: 11 in existing clusters, 14 close-contact screenings, and seven other screenings. Perak reports 31 cases: 11 in older clusters, one in Jalan Jelawat cluster, 14 close-contact screenings, and five other screenings.

    Labuan reports eight cases, all in Pulau Enoe cluster. Putrajaya reports three cases: two close-contact screenings, and one other screening. Terengganu reports two cases: one in an existing cluster, and one other screening. And Perlis reports one case, found in other screening.

    Two new cases today are imported, both in Kuala Lumpur.

    The deaths reported today are a 65-year-old woman in Selangor with hypertension and dyslipidaemia; a 78-year-old man in Selangor with hypertension, gout and chronic kidney disease; a 58-year-old man in Sarawak with gout; a 96-year-old woman in Selangor with diabetes, hypertension, chronic kidney disease, and gout; an 87-year-old man in Johor with hypertension; a 53-year-old non-Malaysian man in Selangor, DOA with no co-morbidities listed; and a 67-year-old non-Malaysian man in Sabah with hypertension.

  17. 17.

    John S.

    @Barbara: I’m not suggesting it is a recent shift. Rather, that at some point the political spectrum looks like an ouroboros.

  19. 19.

    Gvg

    @Barbara: RFK jr. is a flake. He has been for a long time. Being an antivaxer is pretty much the only thing he is known for. I am not even sure if he is to the left. Nothing other than being an anti vaxer is really known about him. If it wasn’t for his name, he would never be in the news. Not sure why he turned out like that, but he should be ignored.

  20. 20.

    JMG

    @debbie: This is standard practice in Massachusetts medical offices. Idea is that they provide patient with brand new mask rather than one which might be contaminated by overuse without cleaning.

  21. 21.

    WereBear

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Who knew the Ayn Rand’s “The Virtue of Selfishness” was a suicide pact?

     If only it were that targeted…

    Read an interesting Mother Jones article — from last year, but explained how Q infested online mother groups from their own members. The moderators are going nuts deleting posts when they should be banning members for spreading clear anti-vaxx disinformation, IMHO.

    It did explain that disinformation thrives when leadership provides contradictory and unreliable actions and information — people’s brains get unanchored about things they can’t figure out for themselves.

    This especially steams me since it’s been a YEAR. Just look at who was right about what happened then and what is happening now?

    What is that so hard?

  22. 22.

    Matt McIrvin

    @debbie: The policy at my primary care doctor’s office kept evolving over the past several months. At first any mask you wore in was OK; then they gave you a paper mask to wear over it; then you had to take off your own mask and replace it with the paper mask; then you had to go back out to the vestibule and do that. I think they’re just following changing guidelines about what’s most safe and effective.

    My orthopedist just let me keep wearing the mask I came in with.

    Worst was the hospital: they gave people paper masks to wear, but they’re the kind of surgical masks that tie in the back. Which you can’t do unless you have two free hands, which you don’t if you’ve got an IV feed stuck in your arm.

  23. 23.

    Matt McIrvin

    @John S.: Historically, antivax hasn’t been a particularly right-wing position–a couple of decades ago, the stereotype was that it was mainly the delusion of granola leftists, but this was never really the case; it was cross-spectrum.

  27. 27.

    Sloane Ranger

    On Tuesday the UK had 4040 new cases. This is a decrease of about 600 from Monday and a reduction in the rolling 7-day average of 7.9%. New cases by nation,

    England – 3384 (down @720)

    Northern Ireland – 151 (up @90)

    Scotland – 411 (up @60)

    Wales – 94 (down 31).

    Deaths – There were 56 deaths within 28 days of a positive test yesterday. This is a decrease of 35% in the rolling 7-day average. Deaths by nation, England – 39, Northern Ireland – 5, Scotland – 12 and Wales – 0. The number of deaths where COVID was mentioned as a causal factor on the Death Certificate during the week ending Friday, 19 March was 1043.

    Testing – Not updated due to late reports from some home nations.

    Hospitalisations – On Sunday, 28 March there were 4153 people in hospital. On Monday, 29th 583 people were on ventilators. The rolling 7-day average for hospital admissions was down by 22.15 as of 26 March.

    Vaccinations – As of 29 March, a total of 30,680,948 people had received 1 dose of a vaccine and 3,838,010 were fully vaccinated. This means that 58.2% of adults have received 1 shot and 7.3% have had both.

  28. 28.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    As far as masks go? Early on, I got a half-dozen reusable cotton masks from a local pharmacy, then a few more so I’d have at least one a day for a full week assuming weekly laundry. Then when things got worse, I started to wear a disposable mask over the cotton mask – figuring that (1) the cotton masks I have hug my face fairly tightly, so they might make sense as an inner layer, and (2) the outer layer was the most likely to get exposed to COVID, so maybe I should use disposable masks for the outer layer. Then I read that the current medical advice was to wear the disposable masks as the inner layer, so now I’m doing it that way. I have some KN95 masks that I use when I have to go places where I can expect relatively crowded conditions; of course, they’re single-use-only.

  30. 30.

    Soprano2

    @WereBear: It did explain that disinformation thrives when leadership provides contradictory and unreliable actions and information — people’s brains get unanchored about things they can’t figure out for themselves.

    I wish they had figured this out for messaging about the vaccines. I heard Dr. Celine Gounder on NPR this morning saying again that even if you’re fully vaccinated you can’t do anything differently except hug your grandkids. So I guess that’s an incentive if you have grandkids. What about everyone else? (And not dying is not really an effective incentive IMHO, most people don’t think they are going to die tomorrow). When the interviewer pointed out to her that a study just came out that showed the vaccine was 90% effective at preventing the vaccinated from contracting Covid, the doctor said ‘but that means it’s 10% ineffective”. I mean, c’mon, nothing is ever going to be 100% effective at preventing Covid! Vaccines are supposed to be our ticket to getting our lives back, but from listening to this woman you’d think nothing is ever going to change. I think this negative messaging is part of the reason for the spike now – people are saying “Fuck it, if I can’t do anything differently even if I’m fully vaccinated I might as well start doing stuff now, what’s the point of waiting?” I think some people have a real ascetic thing going on – they don’t want anyone to be able to behave differently until everyone can.

  31. 31.

    Soprano2

    @Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!): I’m somewhat surprised the fuss that the rethuglican politicians and noise media are making about the vaccine passport idea. You would think they would realize that their older audience who have gotten or really want the vaccine would like to get “credit” for having the shot. That is still a big part of their audience, isn’t it?

    They don’t want any business to be able to stop them from doing anything if they don’t want to get vaccinated. Somehow on the right not wanting to get the vaccine has become some kind of badge of honor or something. It’s crazy.

  32. 32.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!):

    I’m somewhat surprised the fuss that the rethuglican politicians and noise media are making about the vaccine passport idea. You would think they would realize that their older audience who have gotten or really want the vaccine would like to get “credit” for having the shot. That is still a big part of their audience, isn’t it?

    You would think, but remember that this is a crowd that feels that wearing a piece of cloth over their nose and mouth to protect their fellow citizens from a deadly plague is a massive imposition on their Freedumb.

    So naturally, they’d view something like this with the same loathing. the only question would have been what excuse they would use to attack it.

    And of course, the (also increasingly elderly) Christianist wingnuts have been into this ‘national ID = Mark of the Beast’ shit since I was in my teens, if not longer (I’m >65 now), so there’s a ready audience within even the more senior reaches of wingnuttery for this particular bit of crap.

  33. 33.

    Robert Sneddon

    @Soprano2: 

    You want this epidemic to be simple to understand and it isn’t. The people who understand epidemics like this, the experts, can’t make it simple for you because following simple wrong advice will spread the disease further and kill the most vulnerable. You’ve heard the correct advice — keep your distance, stay isolated, don’t go to pubs and clubs and restaurants and cruises and sporting events etc. and you don’t like that so you want someone to tell you it’s OK to do what you want. It isn’t. Sorry.

  34. 34.

    Fair Economist

    @Mary G: We’ll get another wave in California, but it does take a few weeks for the cases to get really high from the currently lowish levels, and they haven’t started going up yet. It’s unlikely to get really bad before June. With vaccination opening up to everybody in the near future (already in Contra Costa) the next wave will mostly affect antivaxxers.

  35. 35.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Robert Sneddon:

    and you don’t like that so you want someone to tell you it’s OK to do what you want.

    Whaaaaaaaaaat?!??

    I swear, there seems to be a major problem with excluded middles around here.  Every time I turn around, someone’s interpreting having a problem with one extreme as advocating its opposite, no matter how great the acreage there is in between.

    Please, folks, stop doing this.

    In this particular example, saying “surely we must be able to live a slightly less constrained life once we’re vaccinated” isn’t the same thing as “I want to party hardy, go to crowded bars and packed concerts without a mask.”

    Just stop it.

  36. 36.

    Robert Sneddon

    @lowtechcyclist:

     saying “surely we must be able to live a slightly less constrained life once we’re vaccinated” isn’t the same thing as “I want to party hardy, go to crowded bars and packed concerts without a mask.”

    Both those statements are wrong, but it’s complicated because epidemics of diseases like COVID-19 are complicated.

    Simplifying outrageously and I Am Not A Doctor, once you’re vaccinated there’s a high probability you will develop a limited immunity to this disease after a few weeks. You’re less likely to catch the disease for the first time or a second or third, less likely to become infectious if you do catch it, less likely to suffer severe symptoms, less likely to die, less likely to spread the disease to other vulnerable people around you. No absolutes, no guarantees so keep on social distancing, don’t go to the diner to eat breakfast with your friends, don’t go on long flights to holiday destinations etc. even after you’ve been vaccinated.

    “Less-constrained” means more disease spread, more vectors and transmission events and more chance of yet another mutation of the original virus which the current vaccines are less effective against oh goodie. The time to be “less constrained” is when the number of new cases each day becomes negligible, say 100 a day in the US although that’s probably a bit high in reality. Yesterday the US reported 62,000 new cases. Long way to go.

  37. 37.

    Jay

    @debbie:

    medical paper masks, ( not N95’s) have a proven quality.

    ( properly fitted, effective for up to an hour),

    cloth masks range from useless to exceptional.

    as there is no certification for a cloth mask, requiring ,( and providing) everyone to wear a paper medical mask, ensures a minimum standard of safety.

    It’s the same at my work, paper medical masks changed every 2 hours for staff. We are allowed to wear cloth masks or N95, ( smoke em if you’ve got em) overtop.

    So I wear my 1000 thread count cotton, M116 insert filter, 1000 thread count bamboo, fitted cloth mask over the disposable medical paper one. One for transit, four for work, one for the trip home.

    Pretty sure that when authentic N95’s are available again, they will become standard.

  38. 38.

    WereBear

    It was hellish finding a cloth mask that fit well, so when I found some I got a bunch. They have a pocket where I fit a paper mask in.

    Every paper mask I tried travels all over my face, creeping down or up and driving me insane. One had an edge that snuck under my glasses and into my eyes.

    I’m already having trouble restraining myself from pummeling the idiots…

  40. 40.

    Bill Arnold

    The Disinformation Dozen – Why platforms must act on twelve leading online anti-vaxxers
    Here’s the list from the full pdf. Warning: Anger-inducing. A serious 40-page Rogues’ Gallery, of people who should (in a just world) spend the rest of their lives prevented from influencing the rest of humanity.  (It is a small subset of malignant influence operators, but it’s interesting.)

    1 Joseph Mercola
    2 Robert F. Kennedy Jr
    3 Ty & Charlene Bollinger
    4 SherriTenpenny
    5 Rizza Islam
    6 Rashid Buttar
    7 Erin Elizabeth
    8 Sayer Ji
    9 Kelly Brogan
    10 Christiane Northrup
    11 Ben Tapper
    12 Kevin Jenkins

    ETA probably linked previously; just wanted to encourage people to read it, to better understand what they are fighting.

  42. 42.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Robert Sneddon:

    Both those statements are wrong

    The point is, you’re treating them as equivalent. Which is nonsense.  It’s like saying anything less than a perfect score on a test is equivalent to a zero.  Maybe they’re both wrong (I doubt it), but if so, one is WAY more wrong than the other.

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