I listened to the latest Josh Marshall podcast on Gaetz this afternoon and lordy is that boy a failson moron. The story of Seminole Tax Collector Joel Greenberg, buddy and perhaps co-human-traffiker of Gaetz’, is a hell of a thing, too:
Greenberg didn’t have any experience in public office when he launched his bid to become the county’s tax collector in 2016, but he won, defeating a decades-long incumbent. He was an instant newspaper magnet, allowing his employees to openly carry guns and, once, pulling a woman over for speeding and flashing his tax collector badge like a cop. An audit revealed his lavish spending on blockchain equipment while in office, which Greenberg claimed was an odd sort of county initiative aimed at potentially selling the technology to other governments.
That came back to bite him with his fourth federal indictment, filed Wednesday, which accused Greenberg of using county funds to buy bitcoin and bitcoin mining equipment for personal gain. Those charges were among a bevy of other unique allegations, including a conspiracy to bribe a Small Business Administration official as part of an alleged scheme to steal from the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program.
The earlier charges, of sex trafficking and identity theft, also involve the tax collector’s office: Greenberg allegedly used his access to discarded ID cards and a state database to steal others’ identities, look up the minor he allegedly trafficked, and make fake ID cards for himself.
Apparently that bitcoin mining rig started on fire, and the fake ids were possibly for underage girls. It’s like a plot that Carl Hiaasen would reject because it is too far-fetched. There’s not enough room to go into all the characters here, but this story at TPM has them covered.
Anyway, Gaetz is laying down a cloud of bullshit on his Twitter account today, none of which denies the two main rumored accusations, namely, that he had sex with an underage girl from Florida and transported her across state lines in violation of the Mann Act. Everything else is just noise. But Gaetz and his pal Greenberg apparently are the kinds of idiots who think that they can get away with what Trump got away with as President. They are too stupid to realize that Trump’s cloud of Twitter bullshit was secondary to the protection against prosecution and impeachment (conviction) provided by his cronies in the Senate and Department of Justice. Gaetz et. al. aren’t going to get the same treatment.
Parfigliano
GOP poster children. First?
dmsilev
Poor Carl Hiassen. How do you over-the-top satirize this?
To be Frank
To be fair, It is easy to violate the Mann act in the Panhandle, all you have to do is walk your “date” to the other side of the Flora-Bama
Ihop
Thanks for this, I was looking on the pocketcasts app for anything on this particular dipshit. Turns out he did one of his own till just before christmas, called “hot takes with matt gaetz”. Seems a daily snark/airing of grievances from him, but I wont bring myself to listen to it.
MattF
Dahlia Lithwick has a good post on Gaetz (and the Chauvin trial). She notes that Gaetz is trying the Bannonite ‘flood the zone with shit’ defense. BTW, if you’ve run out of free articles on Slate… your browser has a ‘private’ mode…
zhena gogolia
I’m so delighted the Mann Act still exists. It’s like a Barton MacLane movie! Immortal porpoises, and all that.
raven
@To be Frank:
on the pascagoula run
Jerzy Russian
Questions:
M31
I just want this to get enough media attention so that the breathless bloviating about CARAVANS and CriSis aT tHe BOrDer and WHAR PRESS CONFERENCE WHAR can die down — and Biden can quietly get some more gigantic bills passed and maybe we’ll have a democracy with an economy and some less racism in the next few years
Roger Moore
@Jerzy Russian:
Yes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Skink woulda fed this fucker to the gators by page 3.
so he had some kind of car with light rig, as tax-collector? one might reasonably ask, “Why?” I’m surprised this fucker didn’t shoot somebody. George Zimmerman with a real if irrelevant badge.
Jorge (from Miami)
PenandKey
@Jerzy Russian: to answer 2, you swing at an oblique angle to ensure you can get both.
JPL
Wait until we find out that Nestor was involved also.
Ken
It’s like back in January, when people started talking about use of the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 against the insurrectionists.
PenandKey
And you know, I’m usually one who’s more than game for the jokes, but this is so legitimately evil it grosses me out and pisses me off as a father more than anything. I’m not saying I’d join a torch wielding mob over it, but I’d equally not do a damn thing to stop it if I saw one forming.
trollhattan
@Jerzy Russian:
I would use Cruz’ face to hit Gaetz.
mrmoshpotato
@Jerzy Russian:
ETA – oh, a picture! You’re no fun!
Jay
@Jerzy Russian:
both. You use a right or left hook that punches through the frist.// and into the second.
trollhattan
Inactions have consequences; also, feel the mighty power of these Free Markets.
And speaking of Texas, they retain a Covid positivity rate more than 4X California’s under Abbott’s “I trust y’all to use your judgement” policy. They’re ripe for that next wave.
mrmoshpotato
@trollhattan: Either way, wear disposable gloves – actually, multiple layers.
Booger
Gaetz claimed the ‘seventeen-year-old girlfriend’ was made up. Well, it’s the makeup that makes them look legal.
Just One More Canuck
@Jerzy Russian: “He’ll be cryin himself tonight on his huge pilla”
Ken
I wonder if any other heads of small county offices have thought, “We’ve got all these computers, and they’re just used eight hours a day for spreadsheets and email, so why not do bitcoin mining in the off hours?”
It’s a natural thought, much more so than “We’ve got this huge database on the residents of the county, so why not use it for underage sex trafficking?”
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Added detail I read was he spent money on guns then required the staff to pack ’em at work.
Wonder if they had meetings every morning deciding who would be Larry, Curly and Moe that day?
zhena gogolia
@PenandKey:
They’re pigs.
Steve in the ATL
@Ken: this is a quality comment. Kudos!
Cameron
@Booger: “She didn’t exist! And, anyway, I didn’t take her over the state line!”
Jay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
it’s not hard to rig a red/blue flashing LED’s behind the grill, moreso when you are BFF’s with your co-conspirator, the County Sheriff, and his gang.
it may have started relatively “innocently”, like to freely speed or pass through traffic jams or traffic lights, but,………
Pete Mack
And to guild the lily, Gaetz’s Twitter bio literally opens with “Florida Man.”
Leto
Maddow has covered this on her past two shows, and every day it’s something new and more disgusting. Also I’m very surprised/totally let down that PizzaGaetz has caught on. Always projection with these shitbags.
zhena gogolia
@Jay:
I think it’s a pretty common tool of rapists.
Josie
@Jerzy Russian:
I choose Cruz. I’ve had longer to build up hatred for him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JPL: I hope that kid has somebody not named, or paid by, a Gaetz to help him find a lawyer. What are the odds that somebody in that family had him do something illegal? given their history, probably pretty good.
mrmoshpotato
@PenandKey:
Same. I wish I could pie this topic. Makes me feel dirty just reading about it, and it’s reading people going “Oh gross! What the hell is this?!”, not reading praise of these scumbags.
(No offense to literal bags of scum.)
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@dmsilev: I think we’re past Carl Hiaasen and well into Dave Barry novel territory, where the bounds of reality are three exits back in the rear-view mirror. Except that this pile of impossible absurdity is actually happening.
Betty Cracker
We’ve been enjoying this scandal enormously because that smirking douchebag Gaetz is such an embarrassment to a state that has way more than its share of Republican embarrassments. But I’m really hoping the upcoming Greenberg prosecution mires additional FL Republicans in scandal.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Jerzy Russian:
This is why I advocate the use of a baseball bat. Not only does it protect your hand from being broken on a fascist’s face, but if you line things up right, you can use one swing to hit them both.
JPL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: His adoption story was timely. just sayin
Delk
Tax Cop!
A Quinn Martin Production
karen marie
@dmsilev: Maybe Hiassen and The Onion should get together and commiserate over a strong drink.
debbie
Since it’s an open thread, I’m listening to NPR’s recap of Floyd’s ex-girlfriend or -wife’s testimony. She’s provided the background for Floyd’s addiction, painting him in a really compassionate way. He was genuinely struggling against his addiction. I think the defense attorney will look like a total ass if he tries to bring up drugs as a reason for Floyd’s death.
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker: Got your Injuries jersey on? Go Injuries!
Danielx
Matt Gaetz is TFG writ small.
Oh wait…
prostratedragon
@Jerzy Russian: Let’s ask Moe Howard…
(That is a bit harder with a fist.)
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Because he wanted one and nobody was going to tell him no. His whole term in office sounds like exactly what you’d expect from someone whose whole goal in running for office was to abuse his power.
danielx
In more positive news:
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
Got my second shot today!
Arclite
Question: Why are conservatives literally on the wrong side of every issue in history?
Jay
@zhena gogolia:
part of being part of the ethical BDSM community, is that from the beginning, the whole concept of “informed consent”, is radically changed.
”had a glass of wine? sorry, nope.”
Everything outside of the “safe, sane, consensual” written script/contract, is seen by the Community as rape.
It’s not just that “no, means no”, going beyond the script, due to one or more of the participants being either enthused or enthralled, is a big “nope”.
Ken
@danielx: Side effects may include iambic tetrameter.
Roger Moore
@debbie:
That won’t stop them. They have their theory of the case, and they have to follow through with it; doing otherwise to spare their reputation with the public would be malpractice.
prostratedragon
@trollhattan: This story has a 3 Stooges vibe, doesn’t it?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The bit that amazes me about Gaetzgate is they are are all such bumblers than it’s not clear what crimes they are being accused off. Maybe extortion is a normal interaction among the MAGa elite?
Martin
This is why Q needs to paint liberals as such evil caricatures, so that conservatives can get away with this kind of criminality which looks tame by comparison (though, man, they’re working hard in this particularly case).
Jay
@Arclite:
because “conservatives” stopped being “conservative” shortly after Teddy, and became reactionaries.
Ken
Opening credits roll over scenes of people using adding machines, looking up rules in books, and filing.
danielx
@Ken:
It’s painful but worth it.
Roger Moore
@Martin:
I honestly think it’s straight up projection. QAnon is accusing the Democrats of sex trafficking minors because they know the Republicans are doing it.
mrmoshpotato
@Ken: I really miss ‘Cheating Death with Dr. Stephen T. Colbert, DFA’.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
and soon “I didn’t kill her,”
And “hide the body under my front porch,”
finally “I didn’t make a stew from the corpse”
while the press is “Er, we were only asking about your’ position on the proposed infrastructure bill, oh my god…”
West of the Rockies
I’d prefer to punch Jim Jordan, a teeth-shattering uppercut. He could use his yellow tie to address the blood. Second would be Gaetz and his giant pumpkin head with its upside-down mouth.
mrmoshpotato
@prostratedragon: How have I never heard of the gun-humping Three Stooges episodes? ?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, this. The Qtards were going on about the Ever Given was Hilary’s child sex slave trafficking ship this week.
mrmoshpotato
@Roger Moore:
“No puppet. No puppet. You’re the puppet. You’re the puppet.”
Ken
@mrmoshpotato: The Stooges did do a few Western shorts. The gunfights involved more ricochets than is typical, or even physically possible.
JCJ
@Delk:
Maybe commenter burnspbesq can come out of retirement for a starring role as the evil tax attorney
Martin
@Roger Moore: The person believed to be Q, or at a minimum hosts Q, used to run child porn websites. So there’s that.
West of the Cascades
Make the “hook ’em horns” sign, and punch your own eyes?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ken:
A wise guy, eh?
Roger Moore
@Jay:
There’s more to it than that. Being a conservative is about wanting to keep things the way they are. Nobody has to worry about preserving the things in our society that everyone likes. That leaves the conservative party working to keep things that are badly enough broken that there’s a political movement to change them. The “let’s keep things broken because they’re good for us” party is going to be on the wrong side of the issues most of the time.
mrmoshpotato
@Ken: Ah. Many a hat getting shot off I take it.
prostratedragon
@mrmoshpotato: Now that you mention it, don’t recall them doing gunplay, to their credit. But the depth of bumblement here is something they’d have satirized.
Boy is this hard on a phone
ETA: I stand corrected! Must catch up on Saturday MEtv
JoyceH
I have NEVER understood Bitcoin. Do I need to?
mrmoshpotato
@JoyceH: No.
brendancalling
@Jerzy Russian:
1. I believe it is the head that is too big.
2: You don’t have to choose: you simply grab the two by their necks and smash their enormous melons into each other, like one of those wind-up monkeys with the cymbals.
Ken
@prostratedragon: I think you’re partly right. The Stooges sometimes used guns, but they never shot anyone or even particularly near them. But the bullets invariably ricocheted wildly before hitting a strategically-placed kettle (or bowling ball) and knocking it onto the villain’s head.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JoyceH: I almost said, “I can’t wrap my head around the idea of Bitcoin mining equipment”, then I remembered I hadn’t tried and amn’t going to
Roger Moore
@JoyceH:
Short version: Bitcoin is a massive, wasteful pyramid scheme that has also found use as a way of moving money for illegal purposes. The details are mostly obfuscation to keep people from looking behind the curtain.
debbie
@Roger Moore:
It’s not about reputation; it’s about the prosecution’s presentation of an incredibly effective case. If defense goes the drugs route, he’ll look worse than Mr. Potter.
Speaking of, Elliot returns to whichever Law and Order tonight!
Ken
@JoyceH: Only enough to avoid them. For example if the manager of your retirement account starts talking about a great opportunity in bitcoin futures trading, immediately move the account to a different company, possibly a different continent.
prostratedragon
So Sen. Graham has tweeted out video of him firing his AR15, 10 shots into a target. That’ll show us.
Jay
@Roger Moore:
Conservatives used to be “centerists” focused around “conserving” public assets.
In their long path to overt Nazism, White Supremacy and Religious Patriarch, they have abandoned everything “moderate”.
Jay
@prostratedragon:
any Bacon this time?
mrmoshpotato
@prostratedragon: These gun-humping, ammosexual assclowns…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@prostratedragon: is there a sound track…?
MattF
@JoyceH: IMO, Bitcoin is a sect in the larger expanse of monetary crankhood. I’ve encountered enough monetary cranks to realize that there’s no benefit in trying to understand what they are going on about.
trollhattan
Shut the actual fuck up, Willard.
Wah-wah-wah-wah-wah. “Joe’s being meeeeean by not pretending Republicans might work with him. I demand my kabuki. Plus this is all too gosh darn fast for me to follow.”
mrmoshpotato
@Jay: “Mmmmm, I’m an asshole who doesn’t know how to cook bacon.”
Jay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Bitcoin Mining Equipment is centred around the exploitation and underpayment of way more than 7 non-Unionized dwarves with shovels and picks, managed and directed by Underpants Gnomes.
Butter emails
I’d like to say that Republicans don’t elect their best, but I’m not willing to give them the benefit of that particular doubt anymore.
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
it’s not even good bacon.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Check his poll numbers, Willard. He is.
zhena gogolia
@JoyceH:
I just read my husband an article in Vanity Fair. As we got to the paragraph explaining bitcoin, I said, “Now the author will explain bitcoin. I can guarantee you that after I read you this, you still won’t understand bitcoin.” And I was right.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: I think the Rs are figuring out they overplayed their hand by low-balling the rescue plan, now they don’t know what to do
mrmoshpotato
@trollhattan: Did that chod vote to convict the motherfucker the second time?
WaterGirl
@debbie: What happened when Elliot left all those years ago? I know there was a big uproar, in real life and on the show, but I wasn’t paying attention.
Ken
@mrmoshpotato: @Jay: Now you’re making me want a bacon filter in addition to the pie filter.
surfk9
@danielx: what you said! I got mine today too!
Jeffro
Oh great, like I’m going to be able to sleep tonight, trying to figure THIS one out…
Betsy
@Ken: +1
Or really, much more than 1.
Ken
@trollhattan: He met with ten Republicans, and didn’t even laugh at their ridiculous lowball recovery proposal. I hardly see what more he could do.
James E Powell
@JoyceH:
Three people tried to explain it to me. I disappointed them.
Betsy
@Ken: +1
Or really, much more than 1.
@Ken: I’m having just an awful, awful, breakdown kind of day, and yet you made me chuckle, again. So please, keep em coming.
prostratedragon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Just the shots. And the pattern wasn’t shown. The Twitter dateline does have the name of the range though.
prostratedragon
@Jay: I am not hip. Bacon?
Jeffro
I have a couple of friends who like to ‘dabble’ in trading various crypto-currencies, crypto-currency futures, etc, and I’m like, “you KNOW better, come on!”
(but I’ve known them a long time, and really, they don’t know any better ;)
Ken
@prostratedragon: Some idiot Republican Senator — sorry, that’s not very specific; Cruz, maybe — wrapped bacon around a semi-automatic weapon and fired it, heating the barrel and cooking the bacon.
No, I don’t understand it.
Jeffro
Yup. They are radical, revolutionary forces at this point in time.
Baud
@Ken:
Or BaconCoin.
prostratedragon
@MattF: In the econ world they don’t say but should that whom the gods would make mad, they first cause to be obsessed with monetary theory. Something analogous is true here. Or else it’s kayfabe for the scam.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
I think he was just burnt out. Tough being so manly 24/7. ;
ETA: Program recap: “Elliot Stabler returns to the NYPD to take on the city’s most powerful organized crime syndicates and rebuild his life in the wake of a devastating personal loss.”
trollhattan
@Ken:
Ohhh yeah. That was a Cruz stunt. He’s like a performance artist student from the Trump School for the Arts.
Ruckus
@Jerzy Russian:
It only takes one fist to hold a piece of pipe. It’s a twofer.
prostratedragon
@Ken: Lor-duh. Thanks.
prostratedragon
@trollhattan: 8<D!
geg6
@trollhattan:
You win.
Gravenstone
@Jerzy Russian: Apply fist to face A with sufficient force that head A slams into face B. Problem solved.
WaterGirl
@debbie: So there was no dramatic plot line on the original show to explain why he was leaving? No fences to be mended? The preview made it seem like there was some big drama between him and Liv.
Ruckus
@Butter emails:
Actually they may be their best.
There is a point where conservative politics sounds good to the people that it serves best. And that’s the point at which it all turns to shit. We are about 30 years past that point. And this is always the problem with conservative politics. The point at which everyone should run far away, and fast, always, always shows up, the politics always goes to shit, because conservative policy always devolves into how much can the in group steal, and how much can they convince the followers to protect them. And it always goes past that point and screws most everyone and everything.
Fester Addams
Or your could just skip not understanding Bitcoin and jump to not understanding Non-Fungible Tokens.
Jerzy Russian
@West of the Cascades: Yes, this is the response I was looking for. 10/10
JoyceH
Now CNN is reporting that Gaetz was well known for showing his colleagues nude photos of women he said he slept with.
RSA
@trollhattan:
Ian Millhiser at Vox gives us a breakdown of the Senate by population and party. It turns out that Democratic Senators represent 184.5 million people, 56% of the American public, and 41.5 million more than are represented by Republican Senators.
My 15-second Google search didn’t turn up numbers for the House, but we can see a good amount of bipartisanship just in the Senate.
Brachiator
@danielx:
Got my second Moderna jab earlier today. So far, so good.
WaterGirl
@Fester Addams: I’ll do you one better. I have skipped ahead to not understanding the crazy scheme that comes after that.
WaterGirl
@JoyceH: Ugh. That’s disgusting. Hopefully finding that out will encourage some of those women to come forward with details that will help nail Gaetz.
Gravenstone
@JoyceH: So an added charge of child porn? Boy’s a real winner, he is.
geg6
@JoyceH:
WTF is wrong with these people?!?!?!?!?
Dan B
@danielx: Happy day… after a few slow days, most likely.
We are off to visit friends who’ve had their shots and there is a promise of breathing on each other. After months of lockdown it sounds scandalously erotic.
JPL
@JoyceH: What a shock!!! Maybe that explains why Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene was so quick to defend him.
Jerzy Russian
@RSA:
I would suspect there is also a large imbalance in the House. After all, California only has 52 Congress Critters and Wyoming has 1. The population ratio is larger than 52 to 1…
Jay
@prostratedragon:
one of the ammosexual GrOPer’s posted a campaign vid of them cooking bacon, wrapped around the barrel of an AR-15 or clone, by firing off lots of rounds and heating the barrel up.
eta, it was Cancun Cruz, the Canadian fake Texan.
WaterGirl
@geg6: Total fucking pigs, all of them.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
As I recall, his wife had dumped him and his daughters were growing distant. Plus I think he was having real anger management issues.
Betsy
@Roger Moore: never thought about it that way. Sure seems like a useful analysis. I want to keep this in mind!
Mike in NC
@JoyceH: Such a class act. Florida’s future governor.
RSA
@Jerzy Russian: Yes! I expect you are correct.
J R in WV
@Jay:
You’re not wrong, but I would add “reactionary fascists!” to your description of current Republicans.
J R in WV
deleted, redundant
Misterpuff
@Jay: And those miners were using the County Juice with no cost to TaxCopafeelofaMinor.
Tony Jay
@Jerzy Russian:
You don’t choose. You tell Gaetz to start punching Cruz or else. Sure, he’ll begin all slow and reluctant, pulling his punches, maybe crying a little, but that won’t last long. Give him the glare and he’ll get the message.
Then, when he’s worked up a manic sweat and is starting to enjoy the power, call a halt, tell Cruz to get up and out of that fetal crouch, because now it’s swapsies time.
You could sell tickets, for bitcoin!
Ken
I had to dig back to find out this wasn’t about Gaetz or Greenberg. Or the latest guy who decided to shoot a bunch of people.
debbie
@Ken:
I can see that now. Sorry for not being clearer.
WaterGirl
@debbie: thanks for bringing me up to speed!
There go two miscreants
Somewhere, Chuck Berry is smiling.
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay: Should I be worried that you have given this too much thought? :-)
Tony Jay
@WaterGirl:
Not at all. Literally the first scenario that occured.
Granted, I did clean it up a bit in case anyone impressionable might read it. #responsibleadult
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay: Ha!
cain
@Jerzy Russian:
Easy, just line them one behind the other – whoever you’re feeling particularly punch for. Hit one and the throw back will hit the other. Repeat till you feel better.
Kathleen
@WaterGirl: I know thread is dead BUT he put in his papers to leave and didn’t tell Liv. I think prior to that there were some “She said we can’t be partners anymore” and “He said we can’t be partners anymore” because I think both of them felt they were too codependent and it was getting in the way of their work. Or something. Can you and Debbie and I have a special thread on this tomorrow WG PLEEEEEZZZZ PLEEEEZZZZ (just kidding but not really).
Kathleen
@debbie: I thought one of the best L&O SVU lines evah!!! was when Warner said to Benson “All that brooding intensity can be annoying.”
debbie
@Kathleen:
Heh.
By the way, I forgot to mention that it’s one of those two-hour crossover things with SVU. It starts at 9 p.m. ET.
debbie
@Kathleen:
The only type of role he’s ever had is broody intensity.
cain
@JPL:
So perhaps Gaetz as a nude picture [shudder] of MTG eh? maybe they are all collecting nudes and showing it off like it’s a college frat party.
cain
last??
WaterGirl
@Kathleen: Not so dead! thank you
edit: And yes, we can have a thread tomorrow. Remind me if I forget!
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
Were that even a possibility, Greenberg would get Epsteined before anyone else was implicated. [OK, maybe Dersh would get implicated, but he’s not a FL Rethug.]
SFAW
@Jay:
At last! Someone with a concise, cogent explanation! Now I understand it completely!
SFAW
@Fester Addams:
I imagine there’s a John Rogers quote somewhere in there, waiting to be mined.
SFAW
@Kathleen:
I think the conventional wisdom is that a thread here ain’t dead unless either I, or J R in WV, get the last (or almost-last) comment in.
SFAW
@cain:
freakin’ amateurs
WaterGirl
@SFAW: I have noticed that about J.R. in WV, but I had no idea that you were in his esteemed company!
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Ruckus, sometimes.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Old threads never die. They just fade away….
Philbert
@Arclite: Because conservatives are against progress. Other than medicine and weaponry.
SFAW
@WaterGirl:
Well, a little less so with me these days. But up until 6 or 8 months ago, I was giving him a run for his money. [Ruckus, too, of course.]