The Police Department in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, where Daunte Wright was killed by an officer, has been flying a “Thin Blue Line” flag just below the American flag. The mayor of Brooklyn Center requested that the flag be taken down because it is inflammatory, and the police complied. Its use has been banned by the University of Wisconsin and Pelham, NY, police departments.
The TBL flag has a lot wrong with it. It is related to the “Blue lives matter” slogan, which developed in response to “Black lives matter” to minimize that claim. It is used by white supremacist factions. The flag was displayed in the January 6 attack on the Capitol, with attackers somewhat contradictorily attacking Capitol police with poles with the flag attached.
It’s not just the flag. Search for thin blue line images and you will find skulls, crosses, angels, crusaders, helmets, Superman symbols, mourning bands, and flags of Australia and the UK. Many of the flags are depicted as weathered, and you can buy a weathered flag from Etsy. Not immediately clear why weathered flags are valued.
It is an American flag, flattened to black and white, with a blue stripe substituting for the white stripe just below the field of stars. Interpretations of the red, white, and blue of the American flag vary, and there seems to be no official interpretation, but the black and white of the TBL flag eliminate them. Changing the American flag is an act of arrogance and claimed power to override its values.
Many interpretations are possible of that black and white scheme. Black and white suggest a radical division of right and wrong, or skin color. Removing the colors and substituting one symbolizing a single group suggests that that group is the most important in the nation.
Black and white color schemes often indicate mourning.
Wikipedia and the Marshall Project give some history of the phrase and flag.
Cross-posted at Nuclear Diner
Old School
What I haven’t seen noted anywhere was whether the Brooklyn Center police department was flying the flag before this week or if it went up in the wake of Wright’s death.
Edmund Dantes
It definitely depicts the blue (police) to matter the most. The thing to focus on.
It sends a message for sure.
Geoduck
There’s a house in my neighborhood flying a version where the stripe is half red and half blue, I guess the red is supposed to represent firefighters.
To be Frank
it’s a curious coincident, but in east sub-Saharan Africa a cloth panel like the one that had been flying above the police station is a sign that a dangerous pest is in the area. They are baited traps for Tsetse flies.
Gin & Tonic
@Geoduck: I used to pass a union hall on my way to work, they had one of those 3-flag flagpoles, flying the American flag front and center, a thin blue line flag on one side and a thin red line on the other. Yes, the red is for firefighters.
Mustang Bobby
It should also be noted that the blue line surrounded by black stripes without the rest of the flag has been known to signify that the person sporting it is into S&M and B&D: the black and blue representing the bruises that come with it. I first saw it at the International Mister Leather Convention in Chicago in 1999 when my then-partner was Mr. New Mexico. So when I saw that the supporters of Blue Lives Matter adopted it, I thought they were either very open-minded or telling us something we didn’t need to really know. It’s not unlike the Tea Party in 2009 proclaiming they were tea-baggers, which got a lot of raised eyebrows since tea-bagging is a well-known sexual position. Ahem.
mrmoshpotato
@Gin & Tonic: And they’re both desecrations of our nation’s flag.
Searcher
When I first started researching the evolution of the black background / thin blue line flag into the black and white American flag, one bit I came across was that the black & white American flag (no stripe) was first used as a “black power” flag, to symbolize that America was built by it.
So in addition to everything else, the white supremacists are appropriating another group’s symbolism because it looks cool again.
mrmoshpotato
@Mustang Bobby:
Hehe
ninerdave
Beyond the Thin (insert colors here, there’s a green one too) Line flags, I’ve wondered about the Black and White flag in general. Seems to be on a lot of clothing these days. Does it have a meaning? Or is just a bastardization of the flag that people seem to think is stylish.
TriassicSands
For a “thin” blue line that blue line sure is fat. The notion of altering an American flag to dramatize the superiority and importance of one relatively small group of citizens is certainly arrogant, especially since it seems to be used to elevate and excuse police at a time when they repeatedly use excessive force, especially against unarmed African American men.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Cincinatti, too
I don’t know whether or not they put it up for Brian Sicknick and the other police victims of the 1/6 thugs, but I’d be more suprised if they did than if they didn’t. But they wanted everyone to know that they think the officer who killed a twenty year-old out of (according to her best version) stupidity is the real victim.
and if the loud mouth police union chiefs in Manhattan and Chicago and other places had anything to say about the multiple physical assaults on their “brothers”, I missed that, too.
Gravenstone
I believe there was a political cartoon (don’t recall who) in recent weeks that flat out called it a gang symbol. I can appreciate and support that interpretation.
JoyceH
I have a negative reaction to that flag because it’s been deployed in opposition to Black Lives Matter, so it must mean black lives DON’T matter. When I see someone display that flag, to me they’re saying, “I support the right of the police to randomly murder minority citizens for no reason and without consequences.”
Kathleen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That tweet is from 2020. And it looks like Hamilton County deputies, who work at the Justice Center, not Cincinnati police.
laura
It’s an in your face refutation of the role of police as public servants with a message about power and worth.
Old School
@TriassicSands:
Too many donuts.
WaterGirl
@Old School: For what it’s worth, when the murder of Wright was first announced this week, at least two articles that i saw mentioned that the flag had already been flying there before his death.
That makes me wonder if it was flying because of the Chauvin trial.
Matt McIrvin
@Mustang Bobby: The original version of the thin-blue-line flag was just a blue stripe on a black background, and when I saw those stickers on cars, I, too, confused it with flags associated with BDSM. Thought it was just a surprisingly large number of happy kinky people advertising it. That would have been a better reality.
Mom Says I*m Handsome
I don’t think we can paste images into the comments so I won’t try, but picture, if you will, the blue stripe coming off, like a poorly adhered piece of painter’s tape, revealing beneath it the unmistakable red, black and white shapes that belie the swastika. That’s what I see when I see the TBL flag — and I see LOTS of them here in Denver…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kathleen: ah, thanks.
I blame twitter.
Martin
I think that flag might get less play after the VA incident. The Blue Lives Matter folks are also the Protect the Troops folks, and seeing a uniformed military treated like Daunte Wright is causing them to re-evaluate what side they’re on, and I don’t think it’s going to be the cops.
That’s the very liberal Pat fucking Robertson this morning.
Old School
@WaterGirl: Thanks. Putting it up this week would have made it even worse.
Grelican
The thing that’s always bothered me about that is the binary choice it presents. Looking at bumper stickers, you’re either a Thin Blue Line person or a Black Lives Matter person. Why can’t I be someone who believes that Black Lives actually do Matter while also supporting those who have the tough job of policing? Do I have to choose between Black people or police? That’s crazy and dangerous. It hijacks critical thinking.
Now a BLM supporter must explain why they are against police when all they wanted was to not be killed by them. Now someone who may naturally support police has to see anyone fighting for civil rights as an enemy.
This may sound like both side-ism, but it’s not. As a direct and pointed reaction to BLM, the TBL symbol is what brought about this stark choice, and the railroading of all thought into a wartime footing was its express purpose. Who does this divisiveness serve? I think we all know the list.
Steeplejack
@Mom Says I*m Handsome:
Here you go.
Mary G
I learn so much here at Balloon Juice. Thanks Cheryl and@Mustang Bobby: .
I keep thinking about the insurrection on January 6, when I saw at least one clip where a rioter was deeply offended that police were keeping them out because “We’re on the same side, man!” Uh, no.
quakerinabasement
The message of the flag is deeply fascist. It declares that only a select group of ubermensch hold civilized society in proper regard and only they can prevent its collapse. That the elect are mostly white, male, and authoritarian completes the picture.
bbleh
It’s a very THIN line between this and a gang flag.
As to
I would say, look no further than the “weathered” T-shirts sold to men with various macho quips or beer/liquor logos or the like: it suggests ruff ‘n’ tuff
@quakerinabasement: this as well — herrenvolk as gang
Martin
@Mustang Bobby: So much wikipedia reading from this comment. I had no idea bootblacks were a thing in the community.
mrmoshpotato
@Martin:
rikyrah
Martin
@mrmoshpotato: Not sure it’s walking so much as a grim supernatural hovering.
Adam L Silverman
Weathered, perhaps better presented as distressed, flags are preferable because they signal battle use, wear, and damage. They symbolize that the flag, or the gun – there is a whole industry around refinishing guns to look battle worn, otherwise known as distressed – has seen hard fighting and so has the person flying it or carrying it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Also, means there is not shades of gray. No room for compromise.
Matt McIrvin
The monochrome/black-on-black flags might also be derived from the “subdued-color” flag patches sometimes used on camo military uniforms.
Martin
@rikyrah: It’s a sweet spot because it’s not what Biden wants. If he agreed to $600B, it’d no longer be the sweet spot. I guarantee there are a dozen GOP sweet spots, each of which needs to be satisfied to get a single vote.
Hoodie
The flattening of the American flag colors is what bothers me, it implies that loyalty to Cop Nation supersedes loyalty to country. It’s like they’re some sort of rebel group, rather than officers sworn to uphold the laws. If they just had a regular US flag motif and added some blue embellishment (e.g., an extra blue stripe) it wouldn’t be as offensive, it would be more like the various renditions of the Union Jack you see in Commonwealth countries.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
And remember how our Moderate better scolded every for snickering.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Basically, they’re too lazy to even militia cosplay to weather their guns.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: I see a whole lot of “distressed flag” gear, masks and tee-shirts, but not always the blue line. I’ve assumed it’s some kind of signal I’m not meant to pick up on.
bbleh
@rikyrah: Wrong thread? But anyway, Capito is just sandbagging. It’s the same trick as she and the other “reasonable” 9 GOP Senators tried to derail the COVID relief bill: make an obviously bad-faith “counteroffer” and then weep the copious tears of the wrongfully scorned, which the right-wing outrage-industrial complex will amplify and the ignorant and perpetually aggrieved wingnuts will profess to believe.
Adam L Silverman
@ninerdave: I’ve got a chart somewhere. I’ll see if I can find it.
Adam L Silverman
@ninerdave: Even better, this site has a pretty good breakdown:
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us_tl.html
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Adam L Silverman: Oh good lord, distressing gear is what LARPers do to make their stuff more believable for their games.
Adam L Silverman
@ninerdave: And here’s another breakdown of other variations from the same site.
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us_var.html
Adam L Silverman
I like this one!
Roger Moore
@ninerdave:
I know that some military uniforms have a black and white version of the flag- what the military calls “subdued” colors- so it doesn’t stand out as much in the field. I would guess people are copying that.
Elie
I get really pissed when I see one of the red necks around here (NW Washington state), adorn their trucks with our national flag — as though it is theirs. I rather that they fly some other flag, rather than OUR flag. Red white and blue belongs to US — its not theirs to distort with their hate and racism. So yeah, if they must fly a flag on their stupid truck, let it be anything but our red, white and blue righteous national flag. They don’t deserve to fly it. Not saying I like the blue stripe flag, but I HATE these fuckers appropriating our national flag for their hateful uses. How dare they!
geg6
I hate that fucking flag and immediately despise anyone who flies one. Fuck that shit. Just fuck it.
Mike in NC
I hate those damn flags. You see them outside gun shops. Almost every lawn that had a TRUMP 2020 sign had them as well. Trump’s message was all about promoting White Supremacy and Police Brutality.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Yep.
Benw
@JoyceH: that’s exactly how I feel. I loathe the thin blue line flag.
Adam L Silverman
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Why do you think I call them cosplatriots?
Steeplejack
@Adam L Silverman:
The Hello Kitty battle flag! I could get behind that. ✊
smith
I’ve thought for a while now that police in many cities have devolved into essentially militarized racist street gangs engaged in what amounts to extortion. The citizens they are supposedly hired to protect end up paying at least threefold: monetarily by the taxes to fund the department, psychologically by the terror and trauma caused by their actions (not to mention physically for the people beaten and killed) , and then monetarily again by the damage awards cities have to pay for the lawsuits that result from cops’ bad behavior. Cities pay out tens of millions a year for this, and it comes out of general funds, not police departments, and the bad cops stay employed and often undisciplined. The victims pay for their victimization. It’s a perfect vicious circle of exploitation.
Kathleen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No problem! I’ve missed stuff like that so many times! I had to follow up on the tweet because I hadn’t heard anything about that incident then I noticed the uniforms were not Cincinnati Police. We just elected our first female sheriff who is a Democrat so I hope we’ll see some positive changes with the County law enforcement.
Walker
This is the new Confederate flag. In fact, when I see these I assume that the person is even more racist than someone who would fly a classic Confederate flag.
NotMax
Blech.
(Someone had to say it.)
Darkrose
When I worked at Sac City College my route to work took me past a law office that flew that flag. It was especially egregious given the recent at the time murder of Stephon Clark by police who claimed they thought his phone was a gun. I noticed late last year that the flag had been taken down–probably after the racial justice protests last summer–but there was a big sign stating that there were cameras in the area.
Adam L Silverman
@Steeplejack: That’s the naval ensign, the battle flag is square. I’ve done at least two posts on this, please pay attention.//
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
The Hello Kitty
battle flag?naval ensign!Tony Jay
It would save a lot of time if all the brainrots who buy into these lazy far-Right themes just cut to the chase and wore the colours of their chosen tribal community as an armband. That way the rest of the world can see them coming and judge them accordingly.
Distressed armbands, obviously. Alte Kämpfer all the way.
Ninerdave
@Adam L Silverman @Roger Moore — excellent info thank you!
Roger Moore
@smith:
It shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise. That’s what a lot of big city police departments used to be. I know the story of Los Angeles best. It’s dramatized, but the corruption you seen in film noir is basically reflective of how things were. Into the 1950s, the LAPD suppressed minorities, extorted businesses, and basically acted like a criminal gang acting under color of law. For all he did wrong, William H. Parker was rightly lauded for reforming and professionalizing the force. Of course the part about suppressing minorities stuck around- TPTB didn’t want to get rid of that- and eventually undermined the rest of the reforms. It’s that kind of experience that makes me think we’ll never have serious police reform without legal reform. As long as the police are unofficially tasked with enforcing an unjust social order, any attempt at serious reform is doomed.
Doug
@Mom Says I*m Handsome: But links work.
https://twitter.com/bagatsen/status/1381712142118838276/photo/1
Roger Moore
@Kathleen:
I hope you have a better experience than we’ve had. In the most recent sheriff election here in LA County, one of the candidates ran explicitly as a Democrat. He got a ton of endorsements from the Democratic establishment and wound up winning. He’s been terrible. He may have a (D) after his name, but he’s part of the LASD gang first and foremost. His first priority after election was reinstating deputies who had been fired for cause, and he’s fought hard against the county supervisors to avoid any kind of accountability for the department. I don’t know if LASD is the worst police agency in the county- there’s a lot to compare with- but they’re obviously worse than LAPD, which is saying something.
Cheryl Rofer
This is pretty amazing – from Adam’s collection!
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
As I’ve said before, the “Confederate Battle Flag” is mostly a creation of the anti-Civil Rights backlash of the 1960s. It’s intended to evoke the spirit of the Confederacy, not to be an accurate reproduction of some historical flag.
UncleEbeneezer
@bbleh: You mean Gang, Gang, Gang
UncleEbeneezer
Whatever it once was, it is now a hate symbol.
UncleEbeneezer
@Roger Moore: To be fair, his predecessor (McDonnell) was just as bad, but in slightly different ways (like cooperating with ICE). Villanueva sucks, but we shouldn’t gloss over the fact that so many reform groups supported him because he at least appeared to be a better option than the disastrous McDonnell.
Low Key Swagger
Forty years ago, I graduated from the LAPD academy. Today, my son graduated from a different police academy. So many differences in training. Ours was quasi military, and way harder and more stressful than basic training I took at Fort jackson. Oddly, we didn’t have much in the way of firearm training. Sure we went to the range and were instructed how to stand when engaged in a firefight, and of course some basic safety training. His course was very heavy on weapons training. Though they had PT, it was NOTHING like the emphasis placed on physical fitness at mine. I don’t understand the shift, except to say that I never felt like there was much of a “gun culture” when I was P.O.S.T. certified, but there sure is now. Anyway, he has a thin blue line cap, but hasn’t thus far bought into the brotherhood aspect of the force. He loves the team effort and he’s a good team player, never cared to stand out. I think we Liberals tend to place too much blame on the individual officers when, in my mind, the real problem is an almost total lack of leadership. Too much emphasis on street survival makes these young officers see nearly everything as a threat. Yes, seemingly routine situations can and do go bad fast, but in too many cases it’s the initial contact that sets the tone. I’m wandering around in my thoughts so I’ll just conclude by saying that symbols aren’t the problem. Focus on better training and oversight. More supervisors in the field, more civilian participation on domestic calls and mental illness related calls. I believe there is a way to fix this. There had better be.
Snarki, child of Loki
“The Hello Kitty
battle flag?naval ensign!”Needz a gold fringe, tho.
Kathleen
@Roger Moore: The previous sheriff was also a Democrat in name only and he went above and beyond to find migrants without papers. Our new sheriff had been a deputy for about 30 years and faced a lot of crap because our Republican dominated county office holders were corrupt and bigoted I wish our new sheriff the best. The Hamilton County Democratic party has done a hell of a job getting Dems elected to the major offices and judgeships at the county level. Here’s a link to Hamilton County Sheriff’s Department twitter: https://twitter.com/hcso_org
Kathleen
@Low Key Swagger: I agree with you.
tokyokie
“Thin Blue Line” also calls to mind the Errol Morris documentary of that title, about the Dallas County justice system railroading an innocent man for the murder of a cop. The phrase was used by the prosecutor during his summation. (The movie, which established Morris’ reputation, helped lead to the man’s being freed from prison.)
Redshift
@Grelican: The reason Blue Lives Matter is presented in opposition to Black Lives Matter is because the whole idea is that by asking them to treat Black people fairly, you’re making them risk their lives. It only makes sense in terms of the long-running racist belief that Black people (and especially Black men) are inherently dangerous brutes, so the only “safe” way to deal with them is to physically subjugate them.
It’s just a racist idea through and through, and no amount of whining about how “of a dangerous job” changes that.
Obdurodon
There are a whole bunch of variants on this – blue for police, red for fire, yellow for dispatch, grey for corrections, green (or camo) for military. Sometimes blue/white for EMS and white/red for nurses. None for physicians AFAIK because that’s a “white collar” profession and it’s a “blue collar” symbol.
The whole “thin blue line” ethos has always bothered me, with its setting police apart from everyone else and its assumption that society would dissolve into chaos without the police. Like they haven’t been the chief agents of chaos themselves, especially in the past year. The flag bothers me even more because it’s both an invocation of that flag and a mockery of it. It’s taking the flag hostage. “Not only is it ours and not yours now, but we can do anything we like with it.” It makes me instantly loathe the person who’s using it, which I guess makes it even more potent as a symbol of hate.
Just Chuck
Looks to me like a blue line dividing a nation that is mostly black. Not true on the demographic part, but otherwise apropos.
Redshift
@Mary G:
Yeah, you’d think that whole thing would have woken up more cops to the fact that people who say they’re “pro-police” actually mean they think they police will join in their race war rather than enforce the law (which, to be fair, has been true many times). But it doesn’t seem to have caused much of a shift yet.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Adam L Silverman:
Noted! ✊
Another Scott
Good post.
From the Wikipedia article:
“We
serve and protectoppress and repress.”:-/
It’s a horrible symbol. It should never be allowed to fly at official facilities.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Ninerdave: Hi Ninerdave. Wondering if you are aware of the “Reply” box that is in the lower left-hand corner after each comment.
If you hit that on a comment from me, it should bring up a comment box with @WaterGirl: in it, and you can reply.
If you want to reply to more than one person, you follow the instructions in the previous paragraph, then hit X to close the box, move to the other person you wanted to reply to and hit reply on that one.
That opens the box and it should have @WaterGirl: @thesecond person’sname and then you can do one reply to both of them or put a reply to me under @WaterGirl and reply to @otherperson under that name.
Occasionally you hit reply and it opens the box and doesn’t put the @part in there. If that happens, just close the box with the X and hit reply again.
Apologies if you know all of that already, but maybe someone else won’t have know so it will do someone some good. :-)
Kent
The ones I see around here on houses are appropriately tinted Confederate gray.
Ohio Mom
Got here a little late but it doesn’t matter, Kathleen said everything I would have said about the new Sheriff in Hamilton County (Cincinnati) but did it much, much better.
JaneE
There are a couple of those flags flying on my street. They replaced Trump2020 flags, but I don’t consider them an improvement. Both of them fly under a US flag. I don’t understand how you can support America and fascism at the same time.
JoyceH
@Redshift:
So often the reason for the stop really boils down to the fact that a black guy is driving a new car. They seem to have that ancient mindset (Trump had it too) that all the black folk live in The Ghetto and drive junkers – a black guy in a new car is either a car thief or a drug dealer. Maybe the police academies could add an hour lecture about the fact that the black middle class is a thing now?
Just Chuck
@JaneE: What makes you think they support America? Oh sure they love bleating out the word every 15 seconds, but they hate the vast majority of people who live in this country.
Just Chuck
@JoyceH: I’m not sure training can do anything about people who are fundamentally racist psychopaths unfit to wear any uniform.
fuckwit
They didn’t finish coloring in their Pride flag!
Roger Moore
@JaneE:
The essential point is that there are two very different Americas. One is the America of our greatest aspirations, the America of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. The other is the America of our worst impulses, the America of imperialism and Jim Crow. They both exist, and it’s dishonest to pretend one of them represents the one true America. Some people love America because they want to realize our grand dreams, but that isn’t everyone. Some people fervently believe in the America you and I see as our worst impulses and would happily reject all the things we love to get it.
burnspbesq
ICYMI, the defense in the Chauvin case has rested. If the remaining proceedings go quickly, the jury could get the case by COB tomorrow, but I expect there will be much haggling over jury instructions.
Alison Rose
If anyone sees one of these as a sticker on a car or something, you can do what I saw someone else do (not in person, it was…….somewhere on the internet)–take some markers and fill in the other white stripes so it’s a rainbow flag instead. I’m sure the TBL assholes would love that. My gay ass sure did.
Gvg
The thin blue line flag was around way before BLM. I really think I noticed it after 911. After the police and firemen rushed into the towers to try to get people out.
I also think the phrase sounds related to one about I think the marines…
caphilldcne
@Cheryl Rofer: thanks for pointing me to this. Adding this link to my faves and will add the overall site to my weekend webcomics reading. Very insightful.
jonas
The Thin Blue Line flag — because you can’t just have a banner reading “Fuck You, Black People!”
which is pretty much all it means…