Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Republicans don’t trust women.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Bark louder, little dog.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

So many bastards, so little time.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

We are aware of all internet traditions.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We still have time to mess this up!

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Racial Justice / Black Lives Matter / The Crucial Distinction

The Crucial Distinction

by | 218 Comments

This post is in: ,

This came up in my Twitter feed, and ISTM that this clarity deserves a bit of thread to call its own:

The Crucial Distinction

Every mention of “justice” for George Floyd has raised my hackles. (Pelosi’s bathetic thanks to Floyd for his “sacrifice” is the same sentiment on steroids, or drowning in a saccharine bath.)*

There’s nothing that happens now to Chauvin that can render the balance equal to what Floyd lost–we all know that.

The Crucial Distinction 1

The point is to use that terrible, fatal imbalance to bend the arc. Accountability for Derek Chauvin is a start. It shifts the costs for criminal policing. Maybe only a smidge now. Adding to that smidge is tomorrow’s task.

For now: I hope this brings whatever mote of peace it can to Floyd’s family and friends. And that this is in fact the next step in change.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

(Thought we could use a new thread. Talk about this or whatever.)

*ETA: Pelosi is a great leader and makes me proud to be a Democrat. She said something tone-deaf today, and I think it’s OK to note that. Doesn’t mean that she won’t be a great leader and and a fine person tomorrow. Just that the word “sacrifice” sugar coats a fate that George Floyd never sought. Some might think that this is something to pass over in silence. I disagree.

 

ETA2: I just posted a version of this  as a reply to a comment below:

“I get your point; and yes, accountability is, or is at least integral to justice.

But I think there’s another sense to the tweet I quoted and agree with: the phrase “justice has been served” implies closure, something finished and satisfactorily at that. Accountability is ongoing, a duty in the active voice. The point I took out of that tweet is that this verdict is not the beginning of the end, not even the end of the beginning…and that the word “justice” doesn’t capture that sufficiently.

Image: Jean-Marc Nattier, Justice chastising Injustice, 1737

Reader Interactions

218Comments

  3. 3.

    WaterGirl

    Thank you for this Tom, about accountability vs. justice.  I  believe Keith Ellison made the same point, and it’s a good reminder.

  4. 4.

    guachi

    If the only thing you call justice is the magical undoing of the crime then the criminal justice system never dispenses justice.

     

    Holding someone accountable IS justice.

  5. 5.

    Soprano2

    FWIW that’s what my husband said,  and he’s white. He says there is no justice for Floyd because nothing can bring him back.

  9. 9.

    janesays

    I know Pelosi meant well, but that really did come out quite terribly. Nobody’s perfect.

  12. 12.

    zhena gogolia

    Biden and Harris talking to the family. (He says “justice” and she says “sacrifice,” but I found it moving nevertheless, and it looks as if they do too.)

    CNN broadcast video of Biden calling George Floyd's family and telling them, "we are all so relieved … I'm anxious to see you guys. I really am. We're gonna get a lot more done.""I'm just so thankful to the entire family for your courage," VP Kamala Harris added. pic.twitter.com/L0IYVBrVQa— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) April 20, 2021

  13. 13.

    Kropacetic

    @guachi: Holding someone accountable IS justice.

    A small measure of justice has been achieved but it needs to be brought to scale.

    ETA: I am a little reluctant to ever describe prison as justice but it’s as close as we got right now and Chauvin doesn’t seem like the one to upset the apple cart for.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    FWIW, the Floyd family and attorneys said that Pelosi called them twice today and they were grateful.  But they probably haven’t had a chance to peruse Twitter hashtags yet.

  23. 23.

    MomSense

    Pelosi is a true Christian and a devout Catholic.  Try to take her comment in that context.

  26. 26.

    Mary G

    @zhena gogolia: Watching the family and friends recording the cell phone Biden is speaking on with their own phones and nodding along is nice.

    Schumer has a good reaction:

    This guilty verdict says what so many of us have known for a year—George Floyd was murdered by an officer sworn to protect and serve

    But this verdict doesn’t mean the persistent problem of police misconduct was solved

    George Floyd should be alive

    We are working for real change

    — Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) April 20, 2021

  31. 31.

    Miss Bianca

    @guachi: I’m with you on this one. Screw all the parsing of phraseology at this point – a monster cop is going to jail for straight up murdering a Black man and yeah, I know it’s only one case in a 1,000 lately where a murdering cop is actually going to be held ACCOUNTABLE for his crimes, but goddamnit, that *is* justice and and Justice has been served about as well as she’s going to be, for a while.

  32. 32.

    Mary G

    Taken by a college student, such a powerful image:

    Ms. L, a COTA bus driver in Columbus, Ohio, reacts after hearing the guilty charges for Derek Chauvin. Ms. L was listening to the verdict on her phone and pulled the bus over on North High Street when she heard. Photo Credit: @hanks_t99 pic.twitter.com/0dnArpWnF6— The Lantern (@TheLantern) April 20, 2021

  33. 33.

    HumboldtBlue

    @RSA:

    Thanks for that read, it’s definitely something I need, and I look forward to reading it because I found it very hard to discern justice being done during my time covering local crime and courts.

  36. 36.

    Gvg

    Accountability is justice. I don’t get the argument. We can’t bring anyone back to life. The murder should never have happened. I say that about every murder I hear about though.

    we have a lot of work to do to make our system treat black citizens as well as we do white and I want to improve beyond that. It’s a little too optimistic to list those goals today, but I do think that. I want that, but honestly I don’t know how to get there. I can only list a few small things that I think should help, but I know  more is needed.

  38. 38.

    Tom Levenson

    @Miss Bianca: I get your point; and yes, accountability is, or is at least integral to justice.

    But I think there’s another sense to the tweet I quoted and agree with: the phrase “justice has been served” implies closure, something finished and satisfactorily at that. Accountability is ongoing, and that’s what’s needed. The point I took out of that tweet is that this verdict is not the beginning of the end, not even the end of the beginning…and seeing this as a done deal is a mistake.

  39. 39.

    JPL

    Because a teenager taped the killing of Floyd, we have a guilty verdict.   A trial would not have happened without her video.   Thank you Darnella Frazier.

  40. 40.

    Mary G

    No one should be above the law. Today’s verdict sends that message, but it is not enough. We can’t stop here. In order to deliver real change and reform, we can and we must do more to reduce the likelihood that tragedies like this ever occur.— President Biden (@POTUS) April 20, 2021

  43. 43.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mary G: Wait, Abrams is using “accountability” and “justice” IN THE SAME SENTENCE. Should we be unloading on her yet or not? Inquiring minds only wish they were snarking…

  45. 45.

    Miss Bianca

    @Tom Levenson: With respect, Tom, because I adore you, etc, but who the hell is actually responding with “justice has been served, case closed, now let’s move along”? Not anyone here, I would think.

  46. 46.

    Roger Moore

    I think there needs to be some kind of distinction between human justice- a court renders the correct verdict- and cosmic justice- everyone gets what they truly deserve. What happened in court today was human justice but not cosmic justice.

  47. 47.

    Tom Levenson

    @raven: I’m a 70s person, I’ll have you know.

    (Born 1958. Growing up in Berkeley, I did get a pretty good glimpse of the 60s, but I have to say that for me and my pack it was our older siblings’ who were really there. We were effing off in the hills.)

  48. 48.

    Baud

    @Miss Bianca:

    Not anyone here, I would think.

    Chief Justice Roberts will probably write something about how times have change, like he did with racism.

  49. 49.

    geg6

    I don’t know that I agree with that formulation.  By that definition, there is no such thing as justice and I don’t believe that.  Justice was served in this particular case.  And if the justice of this particular case leads to more accountability, that’s definitely the ultimate goal.  But to say a conviction on all counts is not justice is not quite right.  Accountability has to be there for all police, not just this one. This moves us closer to some accountability, I fervently hope.

  50. 50.

    Tom Levenson

    @Miss Bianca: No one here, I hope and believe. But the tweet quoted wasn’t aimed at us. It was instead noting a plausible difference in the way Black people see today’s verdict and what a lot of White folks may take out of this.

    As an extreme example. The national Fraternal Order of Police has already released a statement praising the verdict as proof the system works.  That’s what’s being pushed back against.

  51. 51.

    VeniceRiley

    The justice portion comes at sentencing. I hope he gets the max. That will encourage other officers to take pleas rather than thinking they will surely walk.

  58. 58.

    Barbara

    @Miss Bianca: True accountability requires a  system that creates an expectation that justice will be served as a result of reckless or wanton crimes — in which getting off, not conviction,  is the outlier event. Today’s verdict served justice but is only a small step towards accountability.

  59. 59.

    trollhattan

    Joe’s multitasking again.

    “President Biden this week will pledge to slash U.S. greenhouse gas emissions at least in half by the end of the decade, as part of an aggressive push to combat climate change at home and convince other major economies around the world to follow suit,” the Washington Post reports.

    https://politicalwire.com/2021/04/20/biden-plans-to-cut-emissions-by-half-by-2030/

    IDK how 50% reduction occurs in nine years, but it’s a worthy goal. Moonshot, if you will.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    @Barbara:

    Today’s verdict served justice but is only a small step towards accountability.

    That’s literally the exact opposite of what Tom’s original tweet argued.

    Ugh. Too much vocabulary.

  62. 62.

    TS (the original)

    Pelosi made a speech today & the media/GOP selected a few words to criticise. That is sadly, most of what I read from the post at top.

  63. 63.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I don’t give a fuck what Nancy said. I do give a fuck that a white cop is going to jail for murdering a black man. This verdict is black people winning the fucking lottery ticket for once.

  64. 64.

    evodevo

    @HumboldtBlue: ​
      After going to court a few times, I discovered that justice and the law are two entirely different things – I learned you had to do your own work to bolster your case…that the prosecution or your lawyer was nowhere near as motivated as you are, and if you leave it to them, there will be no justice.

  65. 65.

    Barbara

    @Baud: ​
    Yeah, I don’t necessarily agree with Tom’s framing but I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to get hung up on semantics. We have a justice system that can work — the pieces are there — but it will remain unjust as a whole if classes of people can routinely evade respossibility for criminal acts.

  67. 67.

    japa21

    Leaving without further comment

    The family of George Floyd is preparing a memorial service in North Carolina for Saturday.

    “He was a great guy, he was Christ-centered, because that was a part of his upbringing,” said Roger Floyd, George’s uncle.

    Roger will be at the memorial for George this weekend along with other family members.

    “I believe his death is certainly a sacrifice,” Roger said. “It’s at a time as such, the world is now seeing what Black Lives Matter has been all about.”

    https://kstp.com/news/george-floydrsquos-uncle-i-believe-his-death-is-certainly-a-sacrifice/5751001/

  69. 69.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Devote Catholics like Nancy believe Jesus was scarified. Being referred to in the context of Jesus is considered positive.

  71. 71.

    RaflW

    My initial reaction to the Pelosi statement was that she’s barely moved forward from the days when people thought of Native Americans as “noble savages”.

    Floyd didn’t sacrifice his life for anyone or anything. He was murdered. And that’s just a raw, terrible thing.

    Pelosi is of course a mixed bag. She has some good moments, but I really, really feel that the times are moving beyond her. She should be making plans to hand the gavel gracefully in 18 months or so. IMO.

  72. 72.

    A Ghost to Most

    Accountability, motherfuckers.

    It’s so cute when you brave bunnies talk tough.

  74. 74.

    sab

    @The Thin Black Duke: I like the fact that the prosecution and Floyd’s family were able to restore his reputation. He is now generally perceived as a big, kind, friendly man whose family and friends loved him a lot.

  76. 76.

    Cermet

    The world is, was, but will continue to be a terribly unjust place for anyone of color, female, and anyone poor. Wrongful death, terrible crimes against humans, and government enabled murder will be a fact of everyone ones life. Today, a small movement in a positive direction occurred. In the not too distant future billions of humans, through no fault of theirs, will see their way of life  destroyed along with their children’s future thanks to AGW that we in the west have created. They will NEVER obtain any justice for the countless millions that will die due to this. That is the future already baked in.

    So, for now at least, we should be glad of this important progress but the future for billions, is dark indeed and time is fast running out to save some of those billions.

  77. 77.

    WaterGirl

    @sab:

    I like the fact that the prosecution and Floyd’s family were able to restore his reputation. He is now generally perceived as a big, kind, friendly man whose family and friends loved him a lot.

    Yes.  Absolutely this.

  79. 79.

    Roger Moore

    @trollhattan:

    IDK how 50% reduction occurs in nine years, but it’s a worthy goal. Moonshot, if you will.

    It’s possible, but expensive.  What has to happen is:

    1. We massively increase our zero carbon energy supply.  This could be nuclear (unlikely) or renewable energy, and the renewables could be big power plants or rooftop solar.  We just need a ton of it.
    2. We replace a lot of things that currently burn fossil fuels with ones that use electricity.  That means electric appliances, electric cars, electric trains, you name it.

    That’s theoretically enough to do it, but the whole process gets easier if we take advantage of the opportunity to make everything more efficient while we’re replacing it.  It will save on the cost of building more power generation capacity.

  81. 81.

    prostratedragon

    @MomSense:  How I took it.  Not a Catholic,  but think the idea is something like the good being a sacrifice,  sometimes,  to shake people into moral awareness.

  83. 83.

    hueyplong

    Within an hour or so Tucker Carlson will put an end to our back and forth over Pelosi.

    Maybe someone in hell can pass the news along to Rush Limbaugh.

  85. 85.

    Dan B

    @MomSense: It took me a bit but it does seem that the concept of sacrifice in Catholicism is that forces greater than us, justice, morality, holiness, etc. sacrifice the individual for that greater purpose, not that he offered himself up voluntarily but forces beyond his control compelled his sacrifice.  It’s the core of explaining how a merciful God could tolerate cruelty and injustice.  I don’t buy that one bit.  It seems like an illogical and destructive view but I recognize how some people buy it, otherwise they would drown in despair at an unjust and capricious God.

  86. 86.

    Shana

    @mrmoshpotato: I met my husband one April Sunday morning. He and a friend at the next table at the diner were trying to figure out what he should serve at a party the following weekend, something that could be served either hot or cold because you never know what you’ll get in Chicago in April. I suggested a chinese marinated fried chicken after eavesdropping on their conversation for about 1/2 hour. We celebrate 35 years of marriage this August.

  87. 87.

    Miss Bianca

    @RaflW: I am getting awfully damn tired of Internet randos who have yet to prove that they know their asses from their useful bits about ANYTHING giving advice to the effect that “yeah, Nancy Pelosi should just hang it up already.” Just have a heaping helping of SHUT THE FUCK UP if you don’t want to be mistaken for an ageist, misogynistic asshole who apparently thinks that if an 80-year-old grandma can do it, then hell, just ANYONE can wrangle the House Democratic caucus and be House Majority Leader.

  92. 92.

    Roger Moore

    @Barbara: ​
     

    We have a justice system that can work — the pieces are there — but it will remain unjust as a whole if classes of people can routinely evade respossibility for criminal acts.

    I think this is exactly the right distinction. We got a good verdict today, but the system won’t be just until we get good verdicts regularly. We’ve all shown we know the system is not just because we all anticipated an unjust verdict and are relieved/pleased because it finally got it right for once.

  93. 93.

    Miss Bianca

     

    @hueyplong: your mileage may vary, but as far as I’m concerned, the specific comment I was responding to, viz, this:

    Pelosi is of course a mixed bag. She has some good moments, but I really, really feel that the times are moving beyond her. She should be making plans to hand the gavel gracefully in 18 months or so. IMO.

    *is*, in fact, a call to resign.

  95. 95.

    Dan B

    @Miss Bianca: I agree that Chauvin has a record as a monster.  Involvement in many use of excess force actions is extremely damning.  At the same time I felt that Chauvin probably had a background that steered him down this path and comrades that kept him on course.  Toxic masculinity and dad issues or it could be malignant narcissism.  The look in his eyes as he ground Floyd into the pavement provides little reason for empathy but I still imagine a brutal father for some reason.  He his fate may have been sealed the moment he was weaned.  He was groomed to fulfill his father’s worst dreams.

  99. 99.

    jnfr

    Pelosi didn’t speak well, though I’m pretty sure her heart is in the right place.

    Did the rest of you see Kamala and Joe speak? I thought they were nearly perfect.

  101. 101.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Dan B: ​
      Bad parenting and all that only gets one so far. Kneeling on someone’s neck for nine minutes goes beyond that.

  102. 102.

    Martin

    @Roger Moore: It depends. You can get there somewhat inexpensively, but it’ll require a lot of political change. I mean, the opportunity here is that the goal is to do less of something, so it’s fundamentally a thing that should cost less, in marginal terms.

    A few things that could work:

    1. Decouple the energy markets in other states. Utility rates rise as consumption falls. Put consumers in competition with each other and incentivized utilities to help consumers conserve.
    2. Take advantage of low interest rates to shift marginal costs to capital costs. CA has a cool program where the state will loan small businesses money to replace energy inefficient equipment. The business continues to pay their old utility costs, and the excess is used to pay off the loan. Businesses see no increase in monthly costs, and the duration of the loan will thereby vary depending on how much more efficient the new equipment is.
    3. Extend the CA solar mandate nationwide. Make it a more general renewable mandate, but baking this into the cost of the construction of the home means that homeowners will typically finance it over 30 years, and the added finance costs   will usually be less than the utility costs of not doing it. Plus doing it at the point of construction means it’s cheaper to do since it’s not a retrofit and architects will design for it.

    That should do the trick as far as power generation goes. But the big contributor is transportation. I’d love to see mass transit, but frankly 9 years doesn’t give much time for that to do its thing. There’s going to have to be a moonshot scale BEV program, hard push for cities to remove cars so people adopt other modes of travel. That side of it is much harder. We have proven solutions for energy generation, but not so much for transportation.

  104. 104.

    Kropacetic

    @Miss Bianca: I thought at one point she expressed an intent to resign soon during negotiations about the composition of one of these last two Congresses.

    So don’t worry, those calling for her swan song; she’s just about ready. She’s doing a lot of good now, in the meantime, a gaffe or two be damned.

  106. 106.

    Starfish

    A place in Minnesota, where the police have been committing violence against journalists and protestors all week, is going to have less violence tonight.

    Stacey Abram’s was talking about the eyes of justice. She was referring to the court and not to justice in a greater sense.

    That people were holding their breath waiting to see how this was going to go, because it very well could have gone the other way, when there was an entire snuff film of a police officer killing a man, tells you that the system we have is not just.

    There is no justice because police like this do not get fired before they kill people.

    There is no justice when local governments dodge police accountability and spout all sorts of nonsense to make people afraid of crime when there might be even the least bit of oversight over policing.

    I watched two little snippets of the entire trial because my heart hurts. Watching Black people get killed over and over again all year without consequence is bad for the soul.

    I can’t believe so many of you see the great injustice of this post being that someone criticized Nancy Pelosi. I am tired.

  107. 107.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Dan B: ​

    At the same time I felt that Chauvin probably had a background that steered him down this path and comrades that kept him on course.

    Every monster was created somehow. Pity the child that was, but what you have now is still a monster.

  108. 108.

    Martin

    @Mary G: This is why I don’t think policing can reform from within.  I think these cities need wholesale replacement of their police forces.

  109. 109.

    geg6

    @Kropacetic:

    I believe that was when she thought she’d have a President Clinton.  Could be wrong about that, though.  Maybe it was 2018, but I can’t understand why she would have said it then.

  110. 110.

    Ken

    @Roger Moore: You remind me of a line from Terry Pratchett’s Hogfather, something like:  TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. YET YOU HUMANS ACT AS IF SUCH IDEALS EXIST.

    Death’s point being that justice exists only because we imagine it, and make it so.

  111. 111.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Omnes Omnibus: Exactly. As the great Terry Pratchett said, “Sin is when you turn people into things”, and Chauvin was able to do what he did because he didn’t see George Floyd as a human being. I’d bet my life that Chauvin is still wondering what the fuss is all about.

  113. 113.

    geg6

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Yes.  Only a very small percentage of people with any number of horrific childhood traumas and enabling companions end up cold heartedly murdering anyone, let alone on camera and in public during daylight with a sneeringly arrogant and casual attitude signaling that he operated with complete impunity.  He chose this and has no one and nothing to blame but himself.

  114. 114.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Dan B: People have choices. They can choose to continue the cycle of abuse or they can break it. Ask me how I know.

  115. 115.

    Dan B

    @trollhattan: There are enormous types of technologies springing up every day.  Our house has cut our carbon footprint by 90% with a $40,000 investment and sweat equity.  The inherent carbon in the manufacture of the technologies paid off after ten years.  Our big contributions remaining are beef and lamb once a month, imported wine, a gas range (supplemented with two induction burners this month – new range hasn’t been used yet), and some mail order goods plus clothes made overseas.

    There are other techniques like managed pasturing and soil restoration that could be great if heavily promoted.  We are likely to have bottlenecks like not enough educators and promoters but the new practices and technologies are there and enthusiastic visionaries ready to make their contributions.  The first 20% reduction is easy but may be as likely to spur us to the next 20, abd beyond.

    Guidance will be key.

  118. 118.

    Another Scott

    Maybe in the motion for a new trial Chauvin’s lawyers can call @mtracey as an expert witness on how intimidating Maxine Waters is

    — AngloSaxonTraditionsHat (@Popehat) April 21, 2021

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  119. 119.

    Roger Moore

    @Mary G:

    It’s another terrible case.  The girl they killed was the one who had called for help.  She was defending herself with a knife, and the police apparently decided that made her dangerous enough to kill.

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    @Mary G:  From your article:

    Officers say they feel exhausted and disillusioned by what they see as a lack of support from the public.

    Boo fucking hoo.  I guess it’s not exhausting to be black and murdered for fucking anything a cop decides it will be.

  122. 122.

    janesays

    @Miss Bianca: In fairness, Pelosi herself agreed to step aside from leadership at the end of the current term. Part of the deal with her taking the Speakership again in 2018 was an agreement to serve no more than 4 terms (8 years) total in the role, including the 4 years she had the job from 2007-2011. Hoyer and Clyburn had to agree to that arrangement as well. So they all basically set themselves up to serve until January 2023, and then power would be handed over to a new generation. That doesn’t mean any of them will necessarily be leaving Congress after next year, just that they would be stepping aside from their current leadership positions. Assuming that deal is still in effect, she won’t be the speaker anymore after the midterm elections, regardless of the outcome.

  123. 123.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kropacetic: If Nancy P wants to resign, that is of course her prerogative. What I resent is people saying she SHOULD be resigning because Reasons, almost all of which have to do with the fact that they think she’s an icky old lady with icky old lady parts and everyone knows they ought to just be OUT of the public eye and ear. The fact that she’s the best House Majority Leader in 50 years and we NEED her right now strikes them as galling presumption and just plain WRONG somehow.

    And hell, it’s not just people here – I had to take my own damn SISTER to the woodshed a couple years back when she started in on that “Nancy’s too old” crap – and she’s only ten years younger than Nancy! Fortunately, my sister saw the light pretty damn quickly. ; )

    @janesays: Sigh. See above.

  124. 124.

    WaterGirl

    @The Thin Black Duke: I was really struck by watching the Vice President of the United States say publicly that black people, particularly black men, have been seen as less than human.

    She didn’t pull any punches.  I respect that.

  126. 126.

    Another Scott

    Pelosi’s response to the infamous tweet we’ve been talking about.

    George Floyd should be alive today. His family’s calls for justice for his murder were heard around the world. He did not die in vain. We must make sure other families don't suffer the same racism, violence & pain, and we must enact the George Floyd #JusticeInPolicing Act. https://t.co/tWln9NRg1g

    — Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) April 20, 2021

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  127. 127.

    DropDminus

    @Barbara: Well said. I haven’t tried a criminal case in at least 15 years but it’s a remarkable process that I believe can still be a force for good. In contrast to the flippant FOP statement it’s not that the system worked it’s that it CAN work. This is a reason for hope. So until situations like this stop occurring AND it becomes unremarkable when someone like Derrick Chauvin is held to account when they do, there is much work to be done.   To steal a phrase from 44, it is the hard work of self governance and the burden falls on every one of us especially those of us who are the beneficiaries of the status quo.

  128. 128.

    Dan B

    @The Thin Black Duke: The former Chief of Police for Philadelphia said it was a victory for police.  I loved that.  It’s so true and framed as “good police stuck with bad system and bad cops”, ie. good cops vs bad cops. *

    Winning lottery tickets!  Winning first EVERYONE!

    Oprah

     

    *And I know there are precious few good cops and way too much bad systems and bad cops.  There is much to do.  Ellison’s team did a great job at getting police to make this about following proper practices vs destructive force.

  130. 130.

    Roger Moore

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Cosmic justice is really beyond our powers.  Human justice is not.

    Exactly.  I’m frustrated with the people who say we didn’t get justice because George Floyd is still dead.  Duh. We’re never going to get that kind of justice, so it’s unreasonable to hold it up as the standard.  We got the best we can reasonably hope for, and that should be enough to make people happy.

  131. 131.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Starfish: It’s a fucking roller coaster, emotionally speaking. I feel like breaking into tears. But sure, let’s bitch about Nancy Pelosi some more.

  132. 132.

    Another Scott

    Justice.gov:

    Department of Justice
    Office of Public Affairs

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    Tuesday, April 20, 2021

    Statement of Attorney General Merrick B. Garland on the Verdict in the Chauvin Trial

    U.S. Attorney General Merrick B. Garland’s statement following the verdict in the state of Minnesota’s trial of Derek Chauvin:

    “The jury in the state trial of Derek Chauvin has fulfilled its civic duty and rendered a verdict convicting him on all counts. While the state’s prosecution was successful, I know that nothing can fill the void that the loved ones of George Floyd have felt since his death. The Justice Department has previously announced a federal civil rights investigation into the death of George Floyd. This investigation is ongoing.”

    Good, good.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  133. 133.

    Kent

    Does this qualify as justice?

    Ted Nugent, who called COVID-19 pandemic a ‘scam,’ tests positive for coronavirus: ‘I thought I was dying’

    After a year of denying that COVID-19 was real, Ted Nugent now has the virus.
    The rocker announced Monday that he has tested positive after experiencing a “stuffed-up head” and “body aches.”

    “I have had flu symptoms for the last 10 days. I thought I was dying. Just a clusterf–k,” Nugent said on Facebook Live. “I got the Chinese s–t.

    “My God, what a pain in the ass. I literally could hardly crawl out of bed the last few days.”

    Despite getting seriously sick from the virus, Nugent said he still refuses to get the COVID-19 vaccine, falsely claiming that there are questions about its safety and origins.

    The 72-year-old right-wing singer has mocked mask-wearers as “sheep,” called the pandemic a “scam” and claimed the death toll was “bulls–t,” making it relatively easy to guess how he may have been infected.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    @Miss Bianca: ​ I don’t want to get rid of Nancy, but she needs to get ready to pass the torch. She is mortal, and the torch is going to be passed one day. It would be far better for her to make sure there’s a successor worthy of receiving it than to try to hold on forever. ETA: I think grooming a worthy successor is one of the marks of a great leader. If the group you’re leading falls apart when you’re gone, you’ve failed at an important part of your job.
    It’s the same way I feel about The Squad. Like them or hate them, the younger generation are the future of the party. We’d do better to bring them into the fold and groom them to be fit leaders for the future than to try to exclude them because we don’t like the direction they’re moving.​

  139. 139.

    planetjanet

    @Roger Moore:

     This is so tiring. On a day of mourning and relief that some measure of justice is possible, of seeing hope for a better way, you just can’t let go of criticizing Nancy Pelosi for someone younger. You are showing me who you are.

  140. 140.

    Starfish

    @The Thin Black Duke: I don’t know what to say. It has been so much. Watching people do the work over the long term when they have lost so much inspires me to try harder and be better, but sometimes that is tough.

  141. 141.

    Cmorenc

    @Kropacetic:

    one ironic part of justice is that some of chauvin’s new homies in jail will be folks he played a memorable part in sending them there with rough treatment during arrest.  But surely his homies will let bygones be bygones, right?  Yeah, right.  And si, he will probably need to be segregated from other inmates in case some of them arent feeling si sporting toward him

  142. 142.

    AWOL

    “No Justice, No Peace”

    —Al Sharpton, circa 1985

    Peace out, y’all. A motherfucking sociopath is going to prison for quite a while.

  143. 143.

    Miss Bianca

    @Roger Moore: What in the hell makes you think she ISN’T grooming her successor? Jesus, if it’s not one “Nancy’s doing it rong” hot take, it’s another. this shit makes me tired. And crazy. And stabby.

  144. 144.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Not for nothing, but obsessing about what Nancy Pelosi said or meant to say after such a monumental verdict is another way of trivializing and objectifying black people’s lives. Just saying.

  145. 145.

    Damned_at_Random

    It seems incredible to me that an officer with 22 use of force complaints was training new officers

  146. 146.

    Roger Moore

    @planetjanet:

    That’s not what I’m saying.  I’m happy to have Nancy Pelosi as Speaker, and I’d love to keep her.  But she’s mortal, and her career will end one day.  When that happens, I want to make sure there’s someone worthy of stepping into her place.

  147. 147.

    prostratedragon

    Coming up in a few minutes (8 central) will be a free zoom concert of music by Richard Einhorn, who is the composer of Voices of Light, described as an opera set to a silent movie, that being Dreyer’s The Passion of Joan of Arc. Don’t know whether that is the program here, but I heard this work, with the film, in its early days in a live performance at the Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor, and it is quite beautiful. Get the zoom info here.

    Btw, Richard Einhorn is known on the ‘net as tristero.

  148. 148.

    Dan B

    @Omnes Omnibus: I agree that crushing a human into the pavement with the coldest eyes filled with malevolence is beyond redemption but it just seemed as though the roots of this evil probably originated long before and likely many generations past, although Murdoch and his followers seem to have achieved a lot in a few decades.  These are echoes of suffering from long ago and taking wrong turns in response.

  149. 149.

    Kent

    @The Thin Black Duke:Not for nothing, but obsessing about what Nancy Pelosi said or meant to say after such a monumental verdict is another way of trivializing and objectifying black people’s lives. Just saying.

    Exactly.  This isn’t about Nancy Pelosi.

  150. 150.

    piratedan

    yeah, kind of getting tired of the Pelosi Tone Police, she’s an ally, YOU KNOW she’s an ally. I’d rather focus on the attention her legislation should be getting to try and effect some fucking change.

  152. 152.

    debbie

    @Damned_at_Random:

    There’s a similar situation here in Columbus with a cop (Adam Coy) who shot a man (Andre Hill) for ZERO reason. He’s had more than 80 citations, yet remained on the job. Even got his bail lowered so he could get out of jail.  ?

  153. 153.

    Martin

    @Roger Moore: I don’t think we got justice because there’s no structural change made here. I guess some police might fear accountability after this, but I doubt it. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 will always be the basis of police behavior. You have to take away the instruments of violence.

  154. 154.

    zhena gogolia

    How about the words of George Floyd’s daughter that Biden quoted: “Daddy changed the world.”

    Can’t argue with that.

  157. 157.

    Dan B

    @Martin: Great strategies!  I’d love to have a focused marketing approach as well.  One of the upshots of aircsealing and insulating our home is it is far more comfortable.  It’s as comfortable now at 65 degrees as it was at 75.  Chilly walls and ceiling are no more and subtle drafts are absent.  And the value of our property is much greater as well.  These are benefits that few people know.  We got sold on air sealing and ductless heat pumps after touring a small house in the neighborhood on a damp and bone chilling day.  These tours don’t cost much.

    And don’t get me started on EV’s.  We love startling our friends with the torque that our relatively low end Leaf can crank out and/or the quiet.  It must be experienced to be fully understood.

  158. 158.

    fuckwit

    Why is anyone celebrating yet? The sentencing hearing hasn’t happened. The murderous cop could get off with a slap on the wrist that is less than what most Black folks get for possessing a gram of weed, kinda like the cop who killed Oscar Grant did.

    I’m not busting out the champagne until I see the sentencing. And then the parole board needs to be sure to say NO NO NO again and again for the whole time too.

  160. 160.

    Dan B

    @Frankensteinbeck: He’s a monster with a long track record.  There are too many everywhere.  It seemed odd that my thoughts went to where this level 9f evil originates and that he was probably brutalized although this evil can arise without abuse.

  161. 161.

    Miss Bianca

    @The Thin Black Duke: Well, for my part in it, I’m sorry.

    And for the rest of you mooks, I’m out of here. You wanna go on playing “Yeah, BUT” all night long, you’re gonna have to find another fool.

  162. 162.

    Gin & Tonic

    Tom said talk about whatever – so European Super League, or European Super Clusterfuck?

  164. 164.

    Dan B

    @O. Felix Culpa: Chauvin’s monstrosity seems to have been baked in.  My guess is abuse plus underlying mental illness plus an enabling culture and no one, or the department, pressing for intense therapy, and a different career.

    F the Police Unions.  The solution to crime and mental illness is not in protecting criminality, abuse, and mental illness in your own members.

  165. 165.

    J R in WV

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    I’d bet my life that Chauvin is still wondering what the fuss is all about.

    Yes, he did look shocked in the photo I saw of him when he heard the verdict. Wide eyed in disbelief.

    I was running an errand and driving home when I heard the verdict was going to be read… I turned my sound from news to relaxing music so as to be able to drive safely home.

    And I wonder which law tells all people that they must obey every absurd and contradictory command of crazed police officers? Where did that law pass, and who voted for that law? Because I don’t think people would vote for legislators who passed a law like that~!!~ I sure wouldn’t ever vote for a politician like that.

    We watched two or three cops screaming orders at the more recent Minnesotan black man who was shot to death on video that were so contradictory that there was no way for him to obey those orders. One cop screamed “Put your hands out the window!!!” while another cop told him to do  something else with his hands. Guilty of refusing to obey a cop’s commands, shoot to kill him NOW~!!~

  166. 166.

    planetjanet

    @Dan B: No, he is not a victim of circumstances by nature or nurure.  He chose cruelty.  He enjoyed the power.

  168. 168.

    Barbara

    @The Thin Black Duke: Yes, this sort of hyperfocus on so and so’s comments comes close to making it all about us and how we feel about it and our reactions.  To be avoided, but probably the inevitable product of the soundbite culture we live in.​

  169. 169.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Gin & Tonic: ​ 
    Even with UEFA sneaking their new expanded CL format on Sunday with this bullshit as cover on Monday it still doesn’t make a lick of sense. The top teams still stand to benefit the most from the changes, and it’s not dissimilar to some of the proposals in the ESL.​ This was absurd and Liverpool supporters are up in arms.

  170. 170.

    Mary G

    @Martin: I agree. This toxic culture is literally ingrained in American police handed down generation after generation for centuries. I’ve watched the LAPD pull all kinds of shit for 47 years, and I cannot even count how many county sheriffs in both LA and Orange County have gone to jail for one thing or another. They feel that they have impunity and know better than anyone else. They will make noises about reform and rely on the fact that the American public has the attention span of a gnat and let them do their thing unmolested until the next video comes along. I think applying Biden’s slogan of “build back better” should be framed for police as well. The system is broken and needs to be fixed, by taking it all apart and putting it back together again.

    Until American White people stop wetting their panties  thinking Antifa and BLM are coming to kill them because Republicans and Fox News have poured lies upon lies, it won’t get better.

  172. 172.

    Dan B

    @mali muso: Great piece.  It’s good to remind ourselves that we live in the richest country on earth and there’s enough to make things incredibly wonderful if it gets in the right hands.

  173. 173.

    J R in WV

    @Dan B:

    My guess is abuse plus underlying mental illness plus an enabling culture and no one, or the department, pressing for intense therapy, and a different career.

    My guess is all of that, plus steroid abuse in the weight rooms’s locker room. Every cop should be taking blood tests for drug abuse if they’re ever had a complaint about use of force.

    And again, when did the law get passed that says we free American people must obey a cop’s wildest, most fanciful and contradictory commands? Where is that in the constitution? I do not recall that part of the founding documents~!!~

    ETA:  Justice in the painting Tom included is one beautiful French lady in my book…

  174. 174.

    Amir Khalid

    @Gin & Tonic:
    All six English Premier League clubs have now pulled out of the European Super League. A closed “elite” European league is a terrible idea and fans hate it; but it resurfaces every few years, because the big clubs are owned and/or governed by greedy executives.

  175. 175.

    Elizabelle

    @The Thin Black Duke:   You keep me sane, dude.

    Just got back in.  Now to watch Pres Biden and VP Harris’s remarks.

    I am thinking of the Floyd family, and how they now will grieve in private.  Nothing on earth can bring George back to them, and now that the verdict has been rendered, George will become part of history and part of the past.  And that is the very hardest part to deal with.  To start to let him go.  I am thinking he was a constant presence in their lives through all of this.

    I’m struck by all the comments with “breath” and “breathe” in them.  And how we are all exhaling, and this was brought about because of yet another black man who was denied his chance to inhale.  And live.

    My word for the year is “accountability.”

  176. 176.

    raven

    Jesse Jackson looks really bad in this presser

     

    eta  “In November 2017, Jackson was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease.[“

  177. 177.

    Kent

    @Amir Khalid:@Gin & Tonic:
    All six English Premier League clubs have now pulled out of the European Super League. A closed “elite” European league is a terrible idea and fans hate it; but it resurfaces every few years, because the big clubs are owned and/or governed by greedy executives.

    That should make the idea DOA I would suspect.

  178. 178.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Amir Khalid: So you’re voting for European Super Clusterfuck, then? I know what happened with the EPL teams today, but you’d think that the club owners, being allegedly smart businesspeople, would not have to do such an embarrassing and rapid volte-face.

  179. 179.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @raven: somebody on twitter said he has Parkinsons. I’ve heard he was in declining health, but that’s the first I’ve heard of that

  180. 180.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Dan B: Having covered the courts back when I was journalist, my experience was that while some sociopaths are made (via childhood abuse, etc.), some are just born that way. Whether murderers or con artists. Either way, they’ve grown up to be predators who society needs to be protected from. (Note: I’m not rehashing the “super-predator” myth from the 80s, I’m talking about a tiny minority of the criminal defendants.)

    It’s also worth noting that most people with horrific childhoods don’t turn into monsters. Otherwise all the queer kids, the fat kids, the POC kids, the trans kids, who were bullied (along with everyone else who was bullied) would be the ones shooting doing mass shootings. But it ain’t them. It’s almost always white men with some degree of privilege.

  182. 182.

    Dan B

    @fuckwit: No parole board in MN.  Minimum sentence is 12 1/2, Max is 40.  There are two Bradley issues inbound that are extremely severe so it’s quite possible he’ll get much more than 20.

    I’m hoping for much more of these trial outcomes to force police departments hands and push wimpy, or malevolent, politicians to do the inevitable.

  188. 188.

    MCA1

    @HumboldtBlue:  The Super League idea collapsing so spectacularly (including, as a special bonus, the Glazers getting a giant egg in the face over it) was the second best of my trifecta of good news today. The first, of course, being Chauvin going bye bye, and the third being getting Dose 2 of Pfizer this afternoon.

    They wanted to bite the hand that feeds them, that being the domestic leagues that provide the pedestal for these “super” teams to stand on and make their billions. Including, not incidentally, through a relegation system that they intended to insulate themselves from in the ESL. The fact that the pushback from those domestic leagues, in particular the EPL, was so swift and strong was pretty heartening to me. “Oh, you think you’re too good for us? Fine, bye. Enjoy your Thursday afternoon matches in Brighton the day after your Wednesday match in Madrid. And when your people get fired after you lose to Juve 4 times in a year, don’t come back looking for a job at Everton.”

    I think the way European soccer leagues and the Champions League work is close to a Platonic ideal as it is. The richest teams blowing it up just so they can squeeze a little more out of it should offend everyone’s sensibility. And as an American, who has seen next level dollar chasing slowly destroy a lot of the great things about Sport here it’s really heartening not just to see fans (and even Pep Guardiola, the coach of one of the teams who wanted to join this monstrosity) revolt so strongly, but to have the franchises hear them and back off.

  189. 189.

    bupalos

    @Baud: 

    It just depends on the perspective. From the point of view of Floyd or anyone connected to him, sure, calling his death “sacrifice” is borderline psychotic.

    From the point of view of history and broader society (and an optimistic point of view of what happens from here) it’s something different altogether. It’s a mistake. But I understand the mistake and I think it’s one that comes from a good place.

  190. 190.

    Amir Khalid

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Make that Recurring European Super Clusterfuck. These guys dream — and are no doubt still dreaming — of a closed NFL-style elite league without promotion and relegation, where 20 lucky clubs get to feast at the big table and everyone else scrapes for the leftovers.

  191. 191.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @raven: There will be an appeal.  But from what I have have seen and heard the trial was reasonably well run, the prosecution didn’t overstep, and the defense did the best they could with what they had.  No real grounds for overturning the verdict anywhere.

  193. 193.

    bupalos

    I’ve been shocked in a positive way exactly twice in the last dozen or so years. Georgia special election, and tonight.

    Both reminders that we can enter negative feedback loops that obscure great possibility. A possibility that things really might just get better.

    Let’s end American apartheid. Let’s take this talk about desegregation not being worth the “political capital” and stick it up Ted Cruz’s ass.

  194. 194.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    Has anyone seen Dan Bongino? You’re lucky if you have not. I came across his shite a few weeks ago online. He was just on hannity. Horrifying person.

  195. 195.

    Dan B

    @planetjanet: Being abused as a child does not guarantee monstrous behavior as an adult it makes it more likely.  My observation was just my mind wondering what might have, emphasis on “might have” made him such a monster.  And I was very relieved at the verdicts.  If he never gets out of prison that would be fine with me.  I’d most like bad cops to be removed from civil society in as many places as possible.

    I also believe that many people who are monsters don’t choose to be on their own.  They are predisposed and then pushed by circumstances and the people and institutions around them.  There are many second rate nasty cops, bigots, cruel, and heartless people around them. Those need to be persuaded that their actions won’t work to their benefit.  Chauvin didn’t arise in a vacuum or exist in a vacuum.

  196. 196.

    bupalos

    @Sister Golden Bear: This is actually a really good day for white people. It’s just that most of them probably don’t know it.

    Personally one of the mistakes we make in talking about things like integration and accountability and equality is that there actually aren’t any losers. White people have a great deal to gain, and if we could figure that out and learn to talk that way, we might make more progress.

  197. 197.

    Dan B

    @J R in WV: Hadn’t thought of steroid abuse.  There are so many ways to build a monster.  I could see him getting involved in drugs in prison.  Those eyes are windows into a deep well of serious damage and destruction of soul.

  198. 198.

    Soprano2

    @prostratedragon:  I love that piece. He came to our local state university when they performed “Voices of Light”. It was over 10 years ago. I was too much of a coward to go backstage and meet him, but I knew he was tristero at Digby’s blog. I knew her wayyyy back in 1999-2000 when we both commented at the Brill’s Content message board. I could tell even then that she was a quality writer.

  199. 199.

    bupalos

    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 will always be the basis of police behavior.

    This is something they say mostly for the purpose of self aggrandizement and to make the job seem much more dangerous/glorious than it actually is. Chauvin had absolutely no thought that George Floyd was going to hurt him. None. He was exerting power. At floyd, at the crowd, at society.

    Yes, this kind of accountability can and will make a difference. And yes, it’s still pretty remedial. But hey, take the baby steps if that’s where you are.

  200. 200.

    Dan B

    @Sister Golden Bear: Your knowledge fits with my amateur observations.  It was just idle speculation on the roots of this particular monsters abusiveness.  It felt to me that his physical brutality to George Floyd may have origins in physical abuse by his father and toxic masculinity – like breeding like.

  201. 201.

    MCA1

    @Martin: I guess the glass half full take on this, which I’ll choose to take for now, is that someone’s actually vocalizing the very idea of putting the American system of policing “on trial.”  I think 99% of white folks in America go through their entire lives without ever thinking at all about our public safety/criminal justice/policing system.  It’s just there, and they think some cops are assholes but they’re generally indoctrinated into the hero propaganda, so they unquestioningly accept the “there are a couple of bad apples but by and large police are good and besides they mostly leave me alone” perspective.

    Why are police unions so strong?  Why is it that the supposed 99% of “good” cops aren’t good enough or strong enough to enforce a system of accountability from within?  Why is the institution of the police department, especially in cities, so powerful and sacrosanct?  How did police become so militarized, and why do we just accept it?  Why are cops out enforcing traffic and parking violations and license plate matters?  And why the f are they strapping when doing so?  How can it be that the worst cops, the very few who actually face any consequences for bad behavior and get fired, can so easily move two towns over and find employment in law enforcement again?  What ever happened to the “serve” part of their job?  What are we actually training these people to do?  Why do so many of them have an us vs. them, glorified bouncer mentality, that sees them escalate practically every interaction they have with the people who pay their salaries?

    No one seems to ask these questions.  The whole system is f’ed and needs to be holistically looked at.  If that’s what putting it “on trial” means, sign me up.

  202. 202.

    Dan B

    @raven: Didn’t hear much about appeal.  I believe, and hope, he doesn’t get out on bail during appeal.  It’s not likely due to the unanimous triple verdict and some other awful aspects that were not included in the trial but will surface in the next steps before sentencing.  One I remember hearing is the fact he murdered Floyd in front of juveniles and an EMT.

    Maybe a Trump hire but it seems most of them don’t trend towards overturning murder verdicts.

  203. 203.

    TS (the original)

    @Starfish:

    If Nancy Pelosi had not been mentioned in the post,  there could have been a complete discussion on the issues you raise.

    But she was brought into the discussion because every democrat in a position of power has to be perfect in their response to anything and everything.

    I did just see (unintentionally) a picture of the scene of the crime & agree with everything else in your comment. Horrific in the extreme.

  204. 204.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Yeah, yeah,  semantics matter in certain situations

    But accountability IS a huge component of justice in a country where so many people of color have been executed by police officers who were let off without so much as a slap on the wrist so I’m not gonna object to either phrase being used in this case.

  207. 207.

    Tom Levenson

    @raven: Oh, I didn’t take it personally, just used the remark as a chance to riff a little. Berkeley as a kid and tween was not interesting playground. I’m still amazed by what our parents let me and my friends do, range all over the city.

  208. 208.

    cain

    I really don’t want to talk about Nancy Pelosi – I want to talk about these fucking cops who shot a 15 year old girl in the chest 4 times without any hesitation. Once again the language is “15 year old young woman” SHE WAS A CHILD!

    I’m so fucking angry..  We didn’t have even a moments break before another tragedy.

    It’s been nothing but cops shooting people, ex-cops shooting people, white trash shooting people. Fuck this day.

  211. 211.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @raven:

    He looks pretty bad. Hadn’t previously heard about the Parkinson’s diagnosis. Came across this headline and first Graf while I was poking around the intertubes looking for a photo of him:

    Jesse Jackson discharged from rehab after 3 weeks; had been unable to walk after illness, surgery

    The Rev. Jesse Jackson was discharged Tuesday from rehab at the Northwestern-affiliated Shirley Ryan AbilityLab following an undisclosed illness and surgery. The civil rights leader was hospitalized for eight days in January.

    I saw him in person giving his great speech at the 1988 DNC in Atlanta. He was riveting.

  212. 212.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Normally I don’t look too closely a criminal trials because I barely did any criminal cases, but I think I’d like to read the motion for new trial/jnov.

  213. 213.

    EM

    The above post is kind of why some people find the left insufferable. Chauvin’s own lawyer, Ben Crump, an African American tweeted the following:

     

    GUILTY! Painfully earned justice has finally arrived for George Floyd’s family. This verdict is a turning point in history and sends a clear message on the need for accountability of law enforcement. Justice for Black America is justice for all of America!

    While I prefer the word accountability myself, always chastising people for not using you’re approved language is just really annoying to most people.

  215. 215.

    Mary G

    Good grief, Minnesota, that rep as a progressive state full of kindly people is completely fake:

    The conviction was the first time in Minnesota history that a white police officer was convicted of killing a Black civilian on the job.https://t.co/dWsfXOe78V— Suki Dardarian (@SukiDardarian) April 21, 2021

  216. 216.

    prostratedragon

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  Has been treated at Mayo.  That helped extend his ability to make brief appearances,  etc. but there’s only so much that can be done.  Saddened to see that he seems to have lost several inches of height.

  217. 217.

    Skepticat

    I haven’t been online and totally missed the verdict, and I’m stunned and immensely encouraged that there might actually be some consequences for something in this messed-up country. Very good point about “accountability,” but I’m much more interested in the plain verdict than in semantics at the moment. Please let this decision be just a start.

  218. 218.

    RaflW

    @hueyplong: Well it wasn’t a call for resignation because 18 months from now would be roughly when a standard every-two year election happens. And I am suggesting that retiring at the top of one’s game, and making a plan for succession that propels the Democrats into the next phase would be a baller move.

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