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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Open Thread: Good, Hunt Down the Rich Tax Cheats

Open Thread: Good, Hunt Down the Rich Tax Cheats

by Anne Laurie|  April 27, 20218:57 pm| 106 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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wealthy people forced to pay the taxes they are supposed to be paying by law, a nation recoils in terror. https://t.co/AtnJabrcJY

— World Famous Art Thief (@CalmSporting) April 27, 2021

Going after rich tax cheats is free money if you are opposed to raising rates or reducing deductions. What is there for a conservative to object to?

— Fred Slump or Fred of the Year (@LesserFrederick) April 27, 2021


There are plenty of people with hundreds of millions of dollars doing extremely obvious and stupid evasion because they don't think they'll ever get caught.

— Fred Slump or Fred of the Year (@LesserFrederick) April 27, 2021

I agree that enforcement against large public companies is tough. That is much more likely to be protracted litigation over tax strategies.

But wealthy individuals, especially owners of privately held businesses? That's a target-rich environment.

— Fred Slump or Fred of the Year (@LesserFrederick) April 27, 2021

If wealthy reactionaries are forced to comply with tax law, they will have less resources to devote to right wing think tank contributions

— gender reveal ban advocate (@context_need) April 27, 2021

They're the tax cheats.

— David Delony (@ddelony) April 27, 2021

One of the great revelations about the Trump era was how society can broadly benefit from serious investigation of white collar crime.

Revenue increases, powerful cretins become toxic for public office, and prosecutors can build careers without ruining the lives of teenagers.

— Zd (@Zeddary) April 27, 2021

Or just being able to respond to the overwhelming volume of SARs filed by banks or financial firms who’ve already identified sketchy shit, but there is no capacity to investigate. ?‍♂️

— Pushing Out the Jive (@NoVAphilly) April 27, 2021

Next step…

Love the embedded photo here. Real 'Deacon Frost plotting his next move against the Daywalker' energy. https://t.co/SJwlS4shId

— Zd (@Zeddary) April 27, 2021

… The U.S. president is set to unveil a tax package on Wednesday that promises to raise revenues from those earning $400,000 or more a year. But executives and professionals making over $500,000 annually already pay relatively high tax rates.

What has potentially far greater ramifications is that Biden and Democrats in Congress are threatening to target a much wealthier group — the growing number of Americans with fortunes starting in the tens of millions of dollars — who often pay lower tax rates than many middle-class families.

Biden, along with Bernie Sanders and other members of Congress, have floated plans to end a long list of sometimes-obscure deductions, exclusions and loopholes that are favorites of the 0.1%. If some of this passes, it will transform how the very wealthy manage their portfolios and pass on their assets to future generations…

The details of these rules may matter far more than whatever top marginal tax rate Congress finally agrees on. “When you focus on the rate, it’s often missed that what wealthy people pay is actually much lower,” said Chuck Marr, senior director of federal tax policy at the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities…

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Reader Interactions

106Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    April 27, 2021 at 9:03 pm

    Go get ’em, Joe.

    Delighted to see this news this morning. Enough of these entitled scofflaws.

  2. 2.

    ByRookorbyCrook

    April 27, 2021 at 9:05 pm

    I see the wealthy have already put on their brown pants to avoid staining.

  3. 3.

    Hungry Joe

    April 27, 2021 at 9:09 pm

    The thought process goes something like this: When I’m a multi-billionaire I don’t want to be handing over any more of my hard-pilfered/lucked-into wealth to the goddam government than I absolutely have to.

  4. 4.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    April 27, 2021 at 9:09 pm

    This will have wide support.

  5. 5.

    JaneE

    April 27, 2021 at 9:12 pm

    Close the loopholes and increase the enforcement. Sounds great to me.

    Just increasing the enforcement would produce substantial revenue, if past experience is any kind of guide.

    I still think we need to go back to the good old tax code of the Eisenhower years. When I am feeling especially generous I would even allow updating the brackets for inflation.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    April 27, 2021 at 9:13 pm

    He best not be touching my colonic tax credit.

  7. 7.

    Poe Larity

    April 27, 2021 at 9:13 pm

    Congress will not fund the computers.

    In other news, Carville says wokeness is a problem in the party.

    “Wokeness is a problem,” he told me, “and we all know it.” According to Carville, Democrats are in power for now, but they also only narrowly defeated Donald Trump, “a world-historical buffoon,” and they lost congressional seats and failed to pick up state legislatures. The reason is simple: They’ve got a “messaging problem.”

  8. 8.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2021 at 9:14 pm

    Parasites.   Make sure TFG and his vile Ivana spawn pay.  Make sure the Murdochs pay.  Make sure the Mercers pay.  Make sure the Sacklers pay.   Make sure the Waltons pay.  Make sure the DeVoses pay.

  9. 9.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2021 at 9:15 pm

    @Poe Larity: ​
     Carville’s been sleeping with a Sith Apprentice for decades. He’s obviously fallen to the Dark Side.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    April 27, 2021 at 9:17 pm

    @JaneE: Conservatives who pine for the glory days of the fifties tend to shut up if you ask whether that includes the tax brackets and degree of unionization.

  11. 11.

    Ruckus

    April 27, 2021 at 9:20 pm

    @Hungry Joe:

    xactly this.

    The super rich have the money to pay people to create those loopholes that benefit few but benefit them massively. And of course that wealth compounds so that the super rich can afford the investment that takes advantage of the loopholes and makes them more. Lots damn more. And then they get really fucking greedy. I used to know a fella who had worked for some of them as an investment guy. He didn’t do too badly himself, making sure that the super rich became super richer.

  12. 12.

    Eljai

    April 27, 2021 at 9:20 pm

    @Baud: Is that similar to a coffee enema?  Because I’ve been writing those off as a medical expense for years.

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 27, 2021 at 9:21 pm

    “America’s ultra-rich fear Biden will close their favorite tax loopholes”

    They should be more afraid if Biden starts soliciting bids for tumbrels.

  14. 14.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2021 at 9:22 pm

    Going after rich tax cheats is free money if you are opposed to raising rates or reducing deductions. What is there for a conservative to object to?

    And yet Republicans bent over backwards to defund the IRS, and to ignore requests for increased staffing and resources.

    Ironic, ain’t it?

  15. 15.

    Benw

    April 27, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    Defund the rich. Sounds good to me :)

  16. 16.

    craigie

    April 27, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    Related

  17. 17.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 9:25 pm

    But executives and professionals making over $500,000 annually already pay relatively high tax rates.

    If they actually [blink][klaxxon]PAY THEIR TAXES[/klaxxon][/blink], then the IRS having more enforcement capabilities won’t affect them in the slightest, will it??!! WILL IT!!11ONE

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  18. 18.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2021 at 9:27 pm

    @JaneE:

    I still think we need to go back to the good old tax code of the Eisenhower years.

    The effective tax rate was never as high as the official tax brackets. Never.

    And the alternative minimum tax was proposed because you had a significant number of corporations and individuals who paid no tax at all.

    A recent business article pointed out that it might be relatively simple to go after a lot of under-reported income of wealthy individuals.

    After that the Democrats need some smart people to revise the tax code and to undo much of the mess caused by Republicans.

    And give the IRS more resources to modernize their operations and to go after serious tax cheats.

  19. 19.

    jonas

    April 27, 2021 at 9:27 pm

    Republican framing:

    Billionaires evading tax laws because, hey, what do you expect, people wanna keep their money, amirite? = Capitalist heroes

    Migrants evading immigration laws because they’re too onerous are there are no realistic alternatives for poor people = criminals we must stomp the shit out of.

  20. 20.

    Woodrow/asim

    April 27, 2021 at 9:28 pm

    @Poe Larity: I damn near came close to leaving BJ over people talking up “messaging” as some kind of shibboleth to make people “like” Democrats.

    People forget that, starting in the 80s, the Conservative movement managed to get not only the term “Liberal,” but then the freakin’ ACLU, branded in the media as damn-near evil. The modern GOP is what happens when all you have is a Pretty Hate Machine, running on message after message.

    “Messaging” alone ain’t gonna make things better. And the way a lot of you talk about it, you’re more likely to piss off actual people working for change, than to pull in the people you profess will be captivated by the magic of your message.

  21. 21.

    Kirk Spencer

    April 27, 2021 at 9:29 pm

    But executives and professionals making over $500,000 annually already pay relatively high tax rates.

    Notionally, yes. But they’re still taking home more than 99% of the rest of the population, many of whom seem to manage.

    An anecdote. I knew a couple, each of whom was making about $400,000 per year. They referred to themselves as “upper middle class” because they knew so many people making more than them. It taught me that almost everyone will be honestly believe the government should do a better job of going after the rich, a group that earns much more than they do.

  22. 22.

    jonas

    April 27, 2021 at 9:35 pm

    @Another Scott: ​
      Actually, some doctor or lawyer making 500k a year isn’t really the issue. Their income is well-documented and they’re going to pay their fair share of taxes. We’re talking about the hedge fund guys making tens of millions from complex investment schemes, the guys involved in massive, multi-national import-export businesses, the billionaire trust-fund heirs, the global .01% whose income comes from complex trusts and partnerships and assets whose true ownership and income streams are easy to hide or just lie about due to lax enforcement. People, quite frankly, like the Trumps. They’re the ones the IRS needs to go after with hammer and tongs.

  23. 23.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 9:36 pm

    @Brachiator: I’m glad that Biden’s going after the wealthy with these tax proposals.  But tell me if I’m wrong:

    My understanding is that tax cheating is rampant in small “businesses”.  Improper write-offs (buying a $75,000 truck or a $15,000 iMac Pro as a “business expense” and writing it off), setting up a business for tax purposes with no intention of ever actually selling a good or service, but getting wholesale prices, etc.  True?  Is the political outcry worth going after stuff like this in Phase II, or is it just something that we have to accept given our tax system and the state of American politics.

    It seems terribly unfair to people who work hard and draw a salary for Bubba Tucker to get a business license and set up a LLC or something to write off normal (and even extravagant) things that workers can’t.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  24. 24.

    debbie

    April 27, 2021 at 9:37 pm

    Joe, make sure to end those tax breaks T**** got for himself in the 2017 tax cuts.

  25. 25.

    Redshift

    April 27, 2021 at 9:38 pm

    @Kirk Spencer:

    An anecdote. I knew a couple, each of whom was making about $400,000 per year. They referred to themselves as “upper middle class” because they knew so many people making more than them. 

    And one of the actual nasty things about growing income inequality is that the gaps widen at all levels, so wealthy people really do see those above them pulling away from them, and they feel less rich.

  26. 26.

    debbie

    April 27, 2021 at 9:38 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Depreciation isn’t cheating.

  27. 27.

    Splitting Image

    April 27, 2021 at 9:39 pm

    Even if all that happened was that the rich tax cheats had to up their game to beat the taxman, I think that an $80 billion outlay over ten years would more than pay for itself.

    Part of the problem with the rich in general is that the system is so thoroughly rigged for them that they can keep their hands on unearned money no matter how lazy and stupid they are. Trump, for example, was a blithering idiot who nobody seems to have been bothered to take down for any of his crooked schemes over the years.

    I can appreciate a smart crook who uses a clever trick to game the system (to a degree) but I resent the fact that a lot of the richest people in the world seem to be stupid, gullible morons who have become convinced that they are so smart no one can ever catch them. Go after these fuckers and let the ones who deserve their money up their game.

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 9:41 pm

    @debbie: If it’s actually used for a business, agreed.  I’m talking about businesses that (almost) only exist on paper.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    April 27, 2021 at 9:44 pm

    @Another Scott:

    The business would have to report revenue to avoid IRS red flags.

    I think small businesses that cheat mostly do so by not reporting cash income and by using business expenses to pay for personal purchases.

  30. 30.

    Redshift

    April 27, 2021 at 9:44 pm

    @Poe Larity:

    They’ve got a “messaging problem.” 

    Ah, yes, I can’t wait for a return to the time when people like Carville trained Democrats not to say what they really believed, and instead stick to “messaging” palatable to center-right voters, assuming liberals would have no choice but to come along…

  31. 31.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2021 at 9:47 pm

    Restoring Republican cuts to the IRS budget will pay for itself many times over. Chuck, Mike, and Erin will spend it wisely.

  32. 32.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 27, 2021 at 9:48 pm

    Speaking of taxes, I found out today that apparently you’re supposed to report interest income from savings accounts, even if it’s below the annual $10 amount where you get sent a 1099-INT form

    I’ve never reported any because, naturally, I didn’t know I had to. The income has always been like $1/year for the last 8 years since I opened my accounts at my current bank. I don’t know about the earned interest from when I was young and my parents managed my savings account. It was certainly less than $1/year

    Should report this to the IRS? It’s pretty small change? In the future I’ll report it

  33. 33.

    Baud

    April 27, 2021 at 9:49 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Don’t bother.

  34. 34.

    Delk

    April 27, 2021 at 9:50 pm

    Go after the churches. If they want to meddle with politics then tax them.

  35. 35.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 27, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    @Poe Larity: When’s the last time Carville won an election?

  36. 36.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 27, 2021 at 9:52 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): If the IRS wants your money, they’ll write you a letter asking for it. If they don’t, then mind your own business.

  37. 37.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2021 at 9:54 pm

    @JaneE:

    I still think we need to go back to the good old tax code of the Eisenhower years

    Without Subpart F (enacted in 1962) and GILTI (the only sensible part of the 2017 tax bill), US-based multinationals would never pay a dime of US tax on their non-US source income. Sure you want that?

  38. 38.

    Ksmiami

    April 27, 2021 at 9:55 pm

    @jonas: agreed but a blowtorch and pair of pliers will work better

  39. 39.

    Jean

    April 27, 2021 at 9:56 pm

    On the topic of white collar crime, I remember Kay promoting investigation and writing that “you wouldn’t need guns, only calculators.”

  40. 40.

    Jeffro

    April 27, 2021 at 10:00 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: this may have the widest support of any government initiative since we decided it was time to go all “antifa” in Europe about 80 years ago ?

  41. 41.

    Ohio Mom

    April 27, 2021 at 10:02 pm

    I’m not going to pretend I know anything about the tax code so I am not going to make any suggestions, I will just cheer any effort to make the one percent cough up anything near their fair share.

    I will say though that the high-priced lawyer married to the medical specialist may be very, very comfortable, I may envy their bank account, but they are not wealthy in the way really wealthy people are.

    For me, the line is drawn at the point people can start shaping the law. The Mars, Nordstrom and other families (IIRC, there were18 of them) who got together to fund the effort to overturn the estate tax — that is wealthy.

    The lawyer-doctor couple may be hosting fundraisers for political candidates and making changes cintributions to cherished causes, but they have no real influence.

    Because I don’t know how to do links properly:
    https://www.faireconomy.org/ten_super-wealthy_anti-estate_tax_families_listed_on_forbes_400

  42. 42.

    Jeffro

    April 27, 2021 at 10:03 pm

    @Poe Larity:

     

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    he’s a little right about “messaging issues” … and yet we still won.

    so maybe he should just CTFO and help us increase this good-sized-and-growing Democratic majority that we’ve already got, after beating back the high Tide of white nationalism

  43. 43.

    Jeffro

    April 27, 2021 at 10:08 pm

    @Another Scott: I know, right?

    my mom, who is nowhere near having to pay exorbitant tax rates or even have her estate pay estate taxes years from now, is all wound up about this.

    ”Mom, shouldn’t the rich pay what they owe?”

    to which of course she trots out the two laziest GQP arguments:

    1) the Dems are taxing ‘job creators’ and the whole economy (meaning most especially her retirement funds) is going to go to hell.

    2) the Dems are just going to raise a ton of money and give it away to the unworthy

    so, you know, a lot of good critical thinking going on over there… ?

  44. 44.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2021 at 10:08 pm

    @debbie:

    Depreciation isn’t cheating.

    ‘True, but tax depreciation that is way faster than economic depreciation—and especially the section 179 deduction—is a pure giveaway. And I’ve seen cost-segregation studies that tiptoed right up to the line.

  45. 45.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 10:08 pm

    @Baud: That’s what I’m getting at.  You jogged a memory – in high school I knew a girl whose parents had a restaurant.  She told me once that they “took $100k off the top” before they did their taxes.

    Hardly anyone uses cash any more, so that’s probably more difficult now, but people are devilish when it comes to money, and I imagine that lots of small businesses still try stuff like that…

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    burnspbesq

    April 27, 2021 at 10:12 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Have you ever wondered why a convenience store with only one person behind the counter has two cash registers?

  47. 47.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 10:17 pm

    @burnspbesq: Actually, no, because I almost never go to convenience stores any more.  I assume that it’s not a “redundancy in case of failure” feature.  Is there an entertaining/enlightening story?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  48. 48.

    CaseyL

    April 27, 2021 at 10:17 pm

    I would pay good money to watch the Mercers, in particular, being shaken upside down until all $7 billion they owe in back taxes comes out of their pockets.  See how many “sizeable checks to Gab” they can write then.

  49. 49.

    rikyrah

    April 27, 2021 at 10:18 pm

    sab,

     

    Just looking for you

    Please check in?

  50. 50.

    Benw

    April 27, 2021 at 10:18 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: @Redshift: word. Let’s do the shit, and fuck the haters

  51. 51.

    Ohio Mom

    April 27, 2021 at 10:23 pm

    Yes Sab, send up a flare so we know you are hanging i n there.

  52. 52.

    Bill Arnold

    April 27, 2021 at 10:24 pm

    @Poe Larity:
    I was expecting that James Carville interview to be a lot worse than it is.
    He’s basically passionate about winning the contests of narratives, e.g.

    I’m saying, why not go after Gaetz and Jordan and link them to Hastert and the Republican Party over and over and over again? We have to take these small opportunities to define ourselves and the other side every damn time. And we don’t do it. We just don’t do it.

    The messaging he’s talking about is more that sort of fight, to get people enthusiastic about Democratic narratives. I think he’s wrong and the press and Democrats and activists have learned a lot from the Trump years (blatant Trump stuff was like bicycle training wheels),. (He’s also wrong about some details, but we all are.)

  53. 53.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 10:24 pm

    @burnspbesq: Or are you saying that convenience stores rake in a mountain of cash, and need a second register to hold it all?

    I was thinking of restaurants, but concede that 7-11 probably still takes in a lot of cash (but they probably have rules about dumping it into the safe periodically so only one register would be required even if they were).

    So,  my question stands.  :-)

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  54. 54.

    Brachiator

    April 27, 2021 at 10:25 pm

    @Another Scott:

    OK. Short preliminary answer. I don’t believe that everyone cheats. But there is tax cheating at every income level.

    Another short preliminary answer. Wage earners who get a W2 and other documents which are easy to track have a harder time being… creative than other people.

    Also, the recent articles about unreported and under-reported income highlight easy ways to get taxes that are owed.

    My understanding is that tax cheating is rampant in small “businesses”. Improper write-offs (buying a $75,000 truck or a $15,000 iMac Pro as a “business expense” and writing it off)

    There is a lot of this, but maybe not as big a deal as people think. Buying a $75,000 truck you don’t need is stupid. Buying three delivery vehicles that help you grow your business and hire drivers, and being able to write off the expense, might be a wise investment.

    I am on record as noting that Biden needs to do more for small businesses. But You could cut back on bonus depreciation allowances, limit net operating loss deductions, provide more hiring credits.

    setting up a business for tax purposes with no intention of ever actually selling a good or service, but getting wholesale prices, etc.

    This gets closer to tax fraud. Simply put, if you don’t have a real business or a “going concern,” you cannot have legitimate business expenses. You don’t even have a hobby.

    A recent example of a more complicated tax evasion scheme, involving the brother of a local Los Angeles talk radio host.

    The [federal] indictment further alleges that Handel formed multiple corporations and limited liability companies to conceal his income and his involvement in real estate development projects.

    Handel purposely failed to put his name on the corporations and entities in order to conceal and disguise his business activities and to deceive his creditors, the indictment alleges. Handel allegedly used his wife – who had no real estate business experience – and others as nominee partners, managers and owners of the LLCs that he in fact controlled.

    One such corporation – DTMM, which Handel told his friends and business associates stood for “Don’t Touch My Money” – allegedly was used by Handel to conceal the proceeds of his unlawful activity. Handel caused DTMM to be registered in his wife’s name, but he used the corporation for all his personal expenses, according to the indictment.

    This guy also claimed to be unemployed, but collected $4 million in kickbacks related to real estate investments. The sad thing is that he started out as a fairly good building contractor and got greedy.

    This kind of stuff is not rare, but it is not difficult to nail if you adequately fund federal and state agencies.

    Is the political outcry worth going after stuff like this in Phase II, or is it just something that we have to accept given our tax system and the state of American politics.

    There is no perfect tax system, but no one has to accept this.

    But I also note that the first protests against the US government was the Whisky Rebellion, folks who did not want to pay taxes to fund the new government. No one likes paying taxes. And it was easier to tax rum and whisky than to tax beer, so people claimed that the taxes were unfair.

    It seems terribly unfair to people who work hard and draw a salary for Bubba Tucker to get a business license and set up a LLC or something to write off normal (and even extravagant) things that workers can’t.

    In the old days, some wage earners would buy a $75,000 car or a $15,000 iMac and try to claim that they had to use them as part of their job, and claim employee business expenses.

    However, if remote work continues to be a bigger part of the economy, legitimate home expenses should be allowed, which currently are excluded.

  55. 55.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 27, 2021 at 10:28 pm

    @Baud:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Okie dokie. Should I still report interest in the future, though?

  56. 56.

    Martin

    April 27, 2021 at 10:31 pm

    Yeah. From what I understand the IRS should be able to recover about $8 for every $1 in auditors they hire. They can do a lot of hiring before that starts to balance out.

  57. 57.

    phdesmond

    April 27, 2021 at 10:32 pm

    as a tax preparer, i absolutely  love it!

  58. 58.

    Kent

    April 27, 2021 at 10:34 pm

    I absolutely LOVE how the Biden people are just flooding the zone here.  They seem to have taken a cue from Trump and are just staying ahead of the new cycle.

    Increase corporate tax rates…BAM

    Increase capital gains tax for the uber-wealthy…BAM

    Increase IRS enforcement….BAM

    The mother fuckers don’t have enough time to gin up a whole shitload of media frenzy before the next shoe drops.  And these are all very popular initiatives with the American public.

  59. 59.

    Kent

    April 27, 2021 at 10:35 pm

    @Martin:Yeah. From what I understand the IRS should be able to recover about $8 for every $1 in auditors they hire. They can do a lot of hiring before that starts to balance out.

    So it’s a jobs bill too!  Cool.

  60. 60.

    Kent

    April 27, 2021 at 10:38 pm

    @Brachiator:However, if remote work continues to be a bigger part of the economy, legitimate home expenses should be allowed, which currently are excluded.

    But capped and fixed.  For example, teachers can claim a fixed $100 deduction for classroom expenses.  No documentation.  Make some reasonable and fixed home office deduction like say $1000 per year fixed.  And if you earn the MAJORITY of your income from home you can claim it.  No bullshit like bringing in remodelers to spend $50,000 on your custom dream home office and writing it all off.

  61. 61.

    joel hanes

    April 27, 2021 at 10:39 pm

    Balloon-Juice-appropriate palate freshener :

    https://twitter.com/EmApocalyptic/status/1387054172659273734

  62. 62.

    Martin

    April 27, 2021 at 10:42 pm

    @Another Scott: The real problem is that wealthy people can so much more easily cheat than poorer people. So the IRS goes after the bottom of the earners because they stand a decent chance of recovering money.

    The Mercer hedge fund supposedly owes the IRS about $7B. That’s enough money that you can throw unlimited lawyers at the problem to stall, obscure, harass and still come out ahead just on the interest. So why not fight it unless it lands the Mercers in prison – which it won’t. There’s no conceivably way they come out worse off.

    We just got our taxes off and I can’t tell you how much of it is entirely dependent on me being honest.  When our tax person  returned it to us showing huge refunds, we assumed we got something wrong because there is no paper trail that gets reported to the IRS for us to compare against – it’s just our word and our ability to produce documents should we get audited. And ours aren’t even *that* complicated.

  63. 63.

    sab

    April 27, 2021 at 10:43 pm

    @phdesmond: Me too. Hard to persuade people to do it right if no enforcement.

  64. 64.

    Kent

    April 27, 2021 at 10:43 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Speaking of taxes, I found out today that apparently you’re supposed to report interest income from savings accounts, even if it’s below the annual $10 amount where you get sent a 1099-INT form

    I’ve never reported any because, naturally, I didn’t know I had to. The income has always been like $1/year for the last 8 years since I opened my accounts at my current bank. I don’t know about the earned interest from when I was young and my parents managed my savings account. It was certainly less than $1/year

    Should report this to the IRS? It’s pretty small change? In the future I’ll report it

    Do it next year but don’t bother sending in an amended form this year.  Worst case, you get a computer generated form letter from the IRS saying you owe another $1 in taxes or whatever it is.  They round to the nearest dollar anyway.

  65. 65.

    debbie

    April 27, 2021 at 10:43 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Took awhile to track down the context, but add me to the list of the concerned.

  66. 66.

    debbie

    April 27, 2021 at 10:44 pm

    @sab:

    You doing okay?

  67. 67.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 27, 2021 at 10:56 pm

    President Joe Biden is set to announce $200 billion in education funding as part of his sweeping spending package he will unveil prior to his prime-time address to a joint session of Congress, according to a White House official.
    The proposal will direct the funds toward universal pre-school for all three- and four-year-olds through a national partnership with states, the official said. The White House estimates it will benefit 5 million children and save the average family $13,000 when the plan is fully implemented.

  68. 68.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    April 27, 2021 at 11:01 pm

    @Kent:

    Oh yeah, I forgot the IRS rounds to the nearest $1, so all those years it technically didn’t count. I’ll report it from now on

  69. 69.

    Patricia Kayden

    April 27, 2021 at 11:06 pm

    Democrats demand release of secret vaccine contracts inked under Trump https://t.co/wee1ZLERdY pic.twitter.com/iaDUFrtyCU— ? R Saddler (@Politics_PR) April 28, 2021

  70. 70.

    sab

    April 27, 2021 at 11:12 pm

    @debbie: I have amazng stepkids. So yes, I am in good hands. Thanks so much for asking.

  71. 71.

    debbie

    April 27, 2021 at 11:16 pm

    @sab:

    Good. Many here have asked after you.

  72. 72.

    Benw

    April 27, 2021 at 11:16 pm

    @sab: good to hear. You’re valued here. Give the stepkids a hug :)

  73. 73.

    JaneE

    April 27, 2021 at 11:16 pm

    @Brachiator: They are marginal rates.  It isn’t possible for the effective tax rate to be the same.

    We really can’t go back to the past, but we can try to use the philosophy of everyone paying their fair share and realizing that the share of the rich is and should be bigger because they already have a larger share of the benefits of America.

    There would be stuff to fix in any tax code – but undoing most of what has happened since Carter left office would be a benefit, IMO.

    Just eliminating the carve-outs and loopholes from the last half century will be impossible today.  But we can try.

  74. 74.

    Mike G

    April 27, 2021 at 11:24 pm

    Like cops angered by the Chauvin verdict — if this news makes you upset, you’re a criminal crapsack.

  75. 75.

    phdesmond

    April 27, 2021 at 11:24 pm

    @sab:

    my first year as a tax preparer was 1974, at exactly the time richard nixon’s taxes were being investigated.  he ended up owing a million dollars including interest, as i recall.

    boy, did the people walking into H & R Block have some strong opinions about THAT!

  76. 76.

    JaneE

    April 27, 2021 at 11:25 pm

    @burnspbesq: Corporate taxes will be a ball of snakes no matter what year you pick.  Multinationals in the 50’s were a much smaller group.  I know that my simplistic way of thinking about them is never going to fly.  I am inclined to tax the money when it comes into this country – or to let the shareholders bear the tax burden when dividends are distributed based on non-US earnings.  It would probably mean that most the the money stays overseas and develops the enterprise overseas, but maybe that kind of thing is not so bad.

  77. 77.

    Ken

    April 27, 2021 at 11:26 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Have you been using the tax tables? If so, an extra dollar of income isn’t likely to have any effect because the entries are $50 apart.

  78. 78.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 11:26 pm

    @Brachiator: Thanks very much.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  79. 79.

    dww44

    April 27, 2021 at 11:31 pm

    @debbie:  Some of us are really in the dark here.  Can someone enlighten us?  Or link to where all was first revealed?

  80. 80.

    debbie

    April 27, 2021 at 11:34 pm

    @dww44:

    Check the afternoon thread about CDC guidelines.

  81. 81.

    rikyrah

    April 27, 2021 at 11:34 pm

    @sab:

    Glad to see you?

  82. 82.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 27, 2021 at 11:39 pm

    This is insane. The current IRS budget is $12 billion a year. Biden wants to give the agency another $80 billion over a decade.

    Holy shit, Batman!  Let’s all flee to the Caymans like a bunch of cheap, leeching bastards!

  83. 83.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 27, 2021 at 11:43 pm

    @Mike G:

    Like cops angered by the Chauvin verdict — if this news makes you upset, you’re a criminal crapsack. 

    ??? Who wants to try topping that?

  84. 84.

    sab

    April 27, 2021 at 11:48 pm

    @rikyrah: Yikes. I am in awe of you. Feel like I won the Oscars being mentioned. Dare l tell my sfepdaughter

    I just read my comment and feel like such a jerk

     

     

    comment

  85. 85.

    Captain C

    April 27, 2021 at 11:49 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Back during the first Bush Administration.

  86. 86.

    Nettoyeur

    April 27, 2021 at 11:50 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: 1996

  87. 87.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 27, 2021 at 11:52 pm

    Ads featuring the Karcrapians.  How. Fitting.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    April 27, 2021 at 11:54 pm

    @sab: We’re all glad you’re here.  Take it easy, we’re just chatting.  :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    Another Scott

    April 28, 2021 at 12:02 am

    In other news, …

    John Kerry's "secret" info, the sharing of which Republicans say constituted a criminal act, is such a closely guarded secret that it has been freely available on Wikipedia for years. pic.twitter.com/mAxKThZjeu

    — Rep. Don Beyer (@RepDonBeyer) April 28, 2021

    There are lessons here… :-)

    (It’s part of a thread with yet more info.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  90. 90.

    Captain C

    April 28, 2021 at 12:04 am

    @Another Scott: This reminds me of the Sopranos episode where a couple of them tried to shake down a Starbucks and they couldn’t because all the money was corporate controlled and if any went missing they would investigate.

  91. 91.

    Sister Golden Bear

    April 28, 2021 at 12:08 am

    Going after rich tax cheats is free money if you are opposed to raising rates or reducing deductions. What is there for a conservative to object to?

    Taxes are for the little people.

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    April 28, 2021 at 12:14 am

    @Kent:

    However, if remote work continues to be a bigger part of the economy, legitimate home expenses should be allowed, which currently are excluded.

    But capped and fixed.  For example, teachers can claim a fixed $100 deduction for classroom expenses.  No documentation.

    Teachers can claim $250. This is too small to make a difference for most people.

    Make some reasonable and fixed home office deduction like say $1000 per year fixed.  And if you earn the MAJORITY of your income from home you can claim it.

    Something close to this might work for some people. You can adopt something similar to the Simplified Method option for Schedule C home office expenses. This would also be fair to offer similar deductions to self-employed people and employee home office workers.

    No bullshit like bringing in remodelers to spend $50,000 on your custom dream home office and writing it all off.

    There are already limits here. People who aaabused this stuff were benefiting from lax IRS enforcement.

  93. 93.

    Another Scott

    April 28, 2021 at 12:14 am

    Meanwhile, … Reuters:

    The family of deceased Samsung Electronics (005930.KS) chairman Lee Kun-hee said on Wednesday it will pay more than 12 trillion won ($10.78 billion) in inheritance taxes for the estate of the late patriarch.

    Lee, who is credited with transforming Samsung into the world’s largest smartphone and memory chip maker, died on Oct. 25. His estate, valued at around 26 trillion won ($23.4 billion) according to local media, included shareholdings in Samsung affiliates valued at $17 billion.

    The Lee family’s handling of the hefty inheritance tax bill – one of the largest ever in both Korea and globally – had been closely watched as it could have resulted in the dilution of the family’s controlling stake in Samsung.

    […]

    Good, good.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack

    April 28, 2021 at 12:24 am

    My brother, a rare doctor who is also a pretty good investor, has a funny routine about how the IRS should have small privateer groups that are issued letters of marque to go after the big tax cheats and get a bounty on whatever they recoup. Sort of like Monty Python’s Crimson Permanent Assurance. He has obviously thought about it way too much.

  95. 95.

    Martin

    April 28, 2021 at 12:29 am

    @Steeplejack: I would love your brother.

  96. 96.

    Brachiator

    April 28, 2021 at 12:33 am

    @JaneE:

    They are marginal rates. It isn’t possible for the effective tax rate to be the same.

    Practically no one paid any income at the top marginal rate. And it is also not true that the Eisenhower era was some magical period where people paid close to their fair share. This is a combination of false nostalgia and a false assumption about the significance of high marginal tax rates.

    It is also obviously not true that the 1950s was some golden era of social spending.

    Just eliminating the carve-outs and loopholes from the last half century will be impossible today. But we can try.

    This is not that hard. The Reagan tax cuts and the most recent 2017 tax law are good examples. The Republicans made revisions to individual, corporate, and estate taxes to provide maximum benefit to the wealthy. The result was a change in the code that gives maximum preference to investment and business income, and the least preference to wage income.

    As I mentioned earlier, the Democrats need smart people to revise the code so that it is more equitable.

    And this is not to say that the Republicans are wizards. In working on the 2017 law, they worked fast and in secret, keeping even many Republican members of Congress out of the loop. The result was messy, with some glaring errors, but they achieved their main goal of cutting taxes for the wealthy.

  97. 97.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    April 28, 2021 at 12:38 am

    @Another Scott: He was a hobbyist photographer and personally led the design team for the NX1 which is my primary camera.  After he retired, his son(the crook) deep sixed the camera line.  There were reportedly prototypes of the NX2, but they never saw the light of day.  The NX1 was released in late 2014 and was though to be the camera of the future, it’s got a few things that could be improved upon(mostly via a firmware update), but is a really nice camera.

  98. 98.

    Steeplejack

    April 28, 2021 at 12:51 am

    @Martin:

    You would! From what I have seen, you have some things in common: work in a tech (or technocratic) field, value investor, salary less than half of income. And he hates the plutocrats.

  99. 99.

    cckids

    April 28, 2021 at 1:19 am

    @Captain C:

    This reminds me of the Sopranos episode where a couple of them tried to shake down a Starbucks and they couldn’t because all the money was corporate controlled and if any went missing they would investigate.

    I’m reminded of the Vegas truth that the FBI didn’t get the mob out of the casinos; Wall Street bought them out.

  100. 100.

    Chris T.

    April 28, 2021 at 6:03 am

    @Steeplejack: They really should. It’s like those independent subrogation groups who work on contingency.

  101. 101.

    planetjanet

    April 28, 2021 at 8:14 am

    @Another Scott: I have a friend, a small contractor, who creates a number of small businesses.  Each is designed to have less than $200k in revenue.  That way he avoids county business taxes.  So the small guys can cheat too, but just not as much money as the hedge fund guys.

  102. 102.

    evodevo

    April 28, 2021 at 8:14 am

    @Captain C: Yeah…I remember that…and then they threatened to firebomb the place and the manager(?) said  “who cares? they’ll just collect the insurance and build another one”…LOL

  103. 103.

    planetjanet

    April 28, 2021 at 8:19 am

    @Ohio Mom: ​
     Those lawyer-doctor couples are funding local candidates. I am seeing it in races this year. I agree to focus on the big fish, but the $400k types are not all just helping out the PTA.

  104. 104.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 1, 2021 at 6:37 pm

    (photo #1)

    (photo #2)

    (photo #3)

  105. 105.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 1, 2021 at 6:37 pm

  106. 106.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 1, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    ◄

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