Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Days Since JD Vance Insulted Women Across America: Zero

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Let’s finish the job.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Please don’t feed the bears.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

The jury literally has a bell they can ring to force Trump to show up on command. Greatest thing ever!

Hot air and ill-informed banter

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Saturday / Sunday, May 1-2

COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Saturday / Sunday, May 1-2

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Every tragedy an excuse for bigotry!

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46Comments

  1. 1.

    J R in WV

    it seems that all the newz is bad, but that’s just the nature of news, to focus on what’s wrong and skip over what is going right. Human nature too, I guess. Of course, in much of the less developed world it really is true that nothing is going well.

    Why do people allow themselves to look at a moderate improvement in conditions and leap to the conclusion that this improvement means that the tools used to create the improvement can be discontinued, now that they have just begun to work? This seems so self-destructive, and is exactly why this crisis reoccurs over and over in successive waves.

    I’m going back to bed, this hasn’t been nearly enough snooze for me yet tonite

    ETA: OH, look! all you have to do to get a big frist is be awake at 5 am Sunday morning — something I would never voluntarily do by plan.

  4. 4.

    Steeplejack

    Report from the coronasphere:

    I had my first serious “exposure” Friday night. Dr. Bro’ Man retired after 30-plus years as an ophthalmologist, and his husband threw him a surprise party at Wilson Hardware, a pub in the hipster Clarendon section of Arlington (VA). The BIL booked a private space, and all (?) of the attendees supposedly would be vaccinated. It was originally scheduled for the patio, so I thought, Okay, that’s not too bad. But Friday was incredibly windy, with occasional spurts of rain, so it was moved inside to a sort of “upper room” space. I didn’t learn that until I got there. I was more than a week past my second Pfizer shot, and it was a milestone event, so I thought what the hell. I’m not complaining, but it was inside, with the ventilation that entails, and there was close contact with people, some of whom I didn’t know. Cocktail party atmosphere.

    Anyway, the event went off well, and everyone had a good time. When we left I noticed that the main room downstairs was packed, and outside there was a line down the block of people waiting to get in. That I do not get. Way too soon to go back to “business as usual” clubbing. But then I was never much of a clubgoer. I imagine it has been hard on the yoots.

    Over the last six months or so I have eaten in restaurants a handful of times, always at lunch but either early or late, so the places were sparsely occupied and social distancing was easy to maintain. I might loosen up now that I’m vaccinated, but I also feel like “Don’t go looking for trouble.” I will mask up when I’m indoors or around people, but for quite a while I haven’t worn one outside when I was by myself.

    I’m glad my brother retired. He was seeing 20-30 patients a day all through the pandemic and didn’t get vaccinated until December-January. Plus—bit of a surprise to me—he told me that he has some repetitive-stress symptoms from the years of hunching over the exam equipment and doing cataract surgery. Go figure. It’s not black lung disease, but still . . .

    Anyway, end of story. It was my first exposure to a big group of people in over a year. Went pretty well, all things considered. I did get a sense of some things I had been missing.

  5. 5.

    Steeplejack

    @J R in WV:

    LOL. I went to bed about 11:00—very early for me—and thought, Well, I’ll see how long I sleep. And of course I was wide awake before 3:00. I read in bed for quite a while and then thought I might as well get up and get on the “real” computer. So I’ve been catching up on the threads with Batman Beyond on HBO Plus in the background. I can always take a nap later. In fact, I have been getting my best sleep when I doze out for a couple of hours in mid- or late afternoon. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  6. 6.

    eclare

    @Steeplejack:  I have one week to go before I’m fully vaccinated, and I don’t see myself dining indoors anytime soon.  My first outing will be to the zoo on a weekday, outdoors, easy to move away from others.  And I will be masked.

  8. 8.

    satby

    @Steeplejack: I’m supposed to go to a “vaccinated-only” get – together this afternoon, outside. As I’ve been at the doctor’s office since last August and selling retail longer, I’m already ok with seeing multiple people as long as it’s outside. Supposed to be a beautiful day here, so the only obstacle to me going is my natural introversion.

  9. 9.

    NeenerNeener

    Monroe County, NY stats:

    218 new cases
    Still at 1244 deaths

    That’s all the info they published yesterday. The site was having  problems as I kept getting intermittent error messages from all browsers that it wasn’t “safe” and I should back away slowly.

    J R in WV: People stop taking their antibiotics and steroids before they finish the whole prescription, too. They start to feel better and just quit with a few pills left.

    A few of my friends want to go out for lunch in two weeks. We’re all vaccinated but I’m still nervous about taking off my mask in a public place to eat, indoors or out.

  10. 10.

    Steeplejack

    @eclare:

    Hey, I don’t blame you. Everybody should go by their own comfort level. Like everyone here, I have followed Anne Laurie’s excellent COVID posts, and I’ve also been guided by Bro’ Man’s advice—someone with serious skin in the game. He keeps up with the medical news and literature, and at his HMO the docs have an internal wiki where they share information. They were early on saying that surface exposure wasn’t a big deal but airborne was. And even with airborne you have to be around people.

  11. 11.

    Steeplejack

    @satby:

    Good luck! I hope you have a nice time. It’s interesting being around people after a long period of, uh, not.

  12. 12.

    Barbara

    @Steeplejack: The continuing packing of bars in Arlington has driven some of us mad because it is in stark juxtaposition with kids being forced to attend school on-line, although we are now hybrid.

  13. 13.

    Cermet

    Some vaccinate people can and do get covid-19; further, a small number die. This new variant is an unknown relative to the vaccine (though I seriously doubt the vaccine isn’t fairly effective but might be slightly less.)

    In groups indoors always wear a mask – even if it is a vaccinated only because 1) one or some people might be lying 2) vaccinated people can get covid 3) It is possible that a covid positive vaccinated person could transfer that illness (studies haven’t been published on whether or not they can.)

    Bottom-line: don’t be foolish – wear a mask around groups of people and whenever indoors around non-family members one can trust

  14. 14.

    Barbara

    @Steeplejack: ​My particular spin on this is a reluctance to patronize an establishment that has done next to nothing to help lessen the pandemic.

  15. 15.

    Steeplejack

    @Barbara:

    Yeah, everything is crazily inconsistent. My BIL is a teacher in an Arlington elementary school, and I think they have gone back to in-class teaching. But I think I know that only because he has stopped bitching about wrangling third-graders via Zoom (or whatever equivalent). He said the little bastards figured out that they could blank their screens, change their user names to “Buffering . . .” and then do whatever they wanted. ?

  16. 16.

    Steeplejack

    @Barbara:

    No argument here. The places where I have eaten inside in the last six months were long-time trusted restaurants that I wanted to help survive and that were following best practices.

  21. 21.

    Matt McIrvin

    People who claim not to be anti-maskers getting mad at other people for still wearing masks outside is a very weird thing. (Do I now have to police my behavior to make sure it’s not too far in excess of caution recommended by CDC guidelines? Isn’t it easier to do something simple that covers the bases? It makes everything twice as hard.)

  22. 22.

    Nicole

    My best friend, a social worker who works in an elder care facility, got Covid in February, between her first and second shots.  Her GP told her not to bother with the second shot, since, “What’s the point? You’ve already had it (Covid).”  It’s troubling to think a currently practicing medical professional is giving out advice contrary to CDC recommendations. I am sure he’s not the only one.

    She decided to ignore his advice and get the 2nd shot anyway, figuring at the very least, it wouldn’t do any harm.

  24. 24.

    Nicole

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, I was glad, too.  I assume her GP was working under the “natural immunity > vaccinated immunity” belief but we don’t know that that’s true for Covid.  We don’t know that it’s NOT true, of course; there’s just not enough data yet (certainly not when he spoke with her in February).  I was annoyed by some articles I read advocating to the Covid-recovered that they should still get vaccinated that claimed the vaccine worked better than having Covid.  I get the good intent- to get people vaccinated- but I don’t think lying to readers is the way to go about it.  I think it’s okay to say, “We don’t know yet if natural immunity is equal to or better than vaccinated, but we DO know the vaccines are overwhelmingly safe, so better safe than sorry.”

    I mean, so much about this disease still feels so random. My friend had a milder case of Covid than her husband or her in-laws, all of whom got it the same time she did, but her half-vaccinated case was more severe than my unvaccinated one in late December.  My friend and I are within the same age cohort, and her health, overall, is probably better than mine; it was just luck of the draw.  Heck, I didn’t even know I had Covid until I was two weeks past the fever- I had 4 tests Covid tests, including 2 while I was having symptoms that all came back negative.  I didn’t test positive until I was feeling fine again, because I guess by then I was shedding enough dead virus for a PCR to pick it up.  And then, after going through isolation (even though I felt fine), I was off from getting tested for 90 days precisely because the PCR test can’t tell the difference between an active and dead infection.  It’s such a weird infection.

  26. 26.

    Cermet

    @Nicole: We do know that people that are asymptomatic or get few symptoms often get lung damage and possibly other organ damage due to blood clots; some testing indicates most such people get these issues – though that data is not large enough to be conclusive. In any case avoiding covid is a great idea.

    Since repeat covid has been shown to occur, getting vaccinated after having covid would be a very good idea, too.

  27. 27.

    Chris T.

    @Nicole:

    I assume her GP was working under the “natural immunity > vaccinated immunity” belief but we don’t know that that’s true for Covid. We don’t know that it’s NOT true, of course; there’s just not enough data yet (certainly not when he spoke with her in February).

    Worth noting: “Natural immunity > vaccinated immunity” is true for many diseases for which there are vaccines. But it’s not universal, and I personally suspect that it’s the reverse for coronaviruses.

    We won’t know for sure for decades, but I suspect that mRNA vaccines—when properly designed, which will be another issue over time—will prove superior in general and the “common doctor wisdom” on this will reverse.

    (ETA re @28: that antibody/T-cell/B-cell argument feeds into my mRNA vaccine design thing.)

  28. 28.

    Nicole

    @Matt McIrvin: Yeah, that’s the thing- we still don’t know how it plays out in real-world practice, and only time is going to tell that tale.  It varies, virus to virus.

    I had a freakout a couple of years ago when my measles titer test came back negative (I was vaccinated twice as a child and again before college) but a friend who works in virology said no longer having antibodies against measles didn’t mean I would necessarily be capable of catching it; so much goes into an immune response (and apparently there’s a bit of a “who’s right” kerfuffle between the antibody camp and the T-cell/B-cell camp, which I found absolutely hilarious).  But, getting a booster MMR shot certainly didn’t do me any harm and better safe than sorry.

  29. 29.

    Starfish

    Thank you for the information about Colorado schools. The Republican on the local school board brought up a proposal that the rules for masks be lifted in all the schools. Since it was not on the agenda, the proposal was kicked down to a later meeting. When the Republicans here pull this nonsense, they are organized. They had 19 people speaking during the period left for the public supporting the proposal that the masking in the schools be lifted.

    I forwarded the New York Times article to the school board.

  30. 30.

    arrieve

    Yesterday was my first second-shot-plus-two-weeks outing. (My vaxiversary was actually last weekend but I had an 80 page paper to write for school this week.)

    It was strange. Wonderful and a little scary and very, very strange. Living in NYC with no car, I haven’t been anywhere I couldn’t walk to since last March. I took an Uber up to the West Side and went to the Ramble in Central Park to see the birds. The park was crowded, as you would expect on a gorgeous spring day, and even though everyone was masked, it still made my palms a little sweaty being around so many people. Fortunately the Ramble is always much less crowded than the main paths in the park, and I was able to sit on a bench with no one else around and pull down my mask and feel the breeze on my bare face. Such a small thing, and I have missed it so much.

    Also there were birds.

  32. 32.

    YY_Sima Qian

    On 5/1 China reported 0 new domestic confirmed & 0 new domestic asymptomatic cases. There are currently 38 domestic confirmed & 9 domestic asymptomatic cases in Yunnan Province. 2 communities remain at Medium Risk.

    Imported Cases

    On 5/1 China reported 15 new imported confirmed cases, 16 imported asymptomatic cases, 1 imported suspect case:

    • Guangzhou in Guangdong Province – 5 confirmed cases, 3 Chinese nationals returning from Canada & 1 each from Cambodia & Saudi Arabia; 4 asymptomatic cases, 2 Chinese nationals returning from Saudi Arabia & 1 each from Morocco (via Paris CdG) & Malaysia
    • Foshan in Guangdong Province – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from France; 5 asymptomatic cases, 2 Chinese nationals returning from Iraq & 1 each from Kuwait, Cameroon & the DRC; all off flights that landed at Guangzhou
    • Shenzhen in Guangdong Province – 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from Cambodia
    • Shanghai Municipality – 4 confirmed cases, 2 Chinese nationals returning from the US & 1 each from Guinea (via Paris CdG) & Bahrain (via Colombo); 1 suspect case, no information released
    • Guangxi Province (location not specified) – 3 confirmed & 2 asymptomatic cases, no information released
    • Xiamen in Fujian Province – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Malaysia
    • Yunnan Province (location not specified) – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Myanmar, via land border crossing
    • Nanjing in Jiangsu Province –  2 asymptomatic cases, no information released 
    • Hangzhou in Zhejiang Province – 1 asymptomatic case, coming from Bangladesh 
    • Yiwu in Jinhua, Zhejiang Province – 1 asymptomatic case, an Indian national coming from Niger (via Paris CdG), the case arrive at Shanghai on 4/15, passed through the 14 days of centralized quarantine and tested negative multiple times, upon release from quarantine on 4/30 the case traveled to Yiwu by by train and re-entered centralized quarantine, the case tested positive on 5/1

     

    Overall in China, 15 confirmed cases recovered, 16 asymptomatic cases were released from isolation & none were reclassified as confirmed cases, and 399 individuals were released from quarantine. Currently, there are 325 active confirmed cases in the country (287 imported), 4 in critical/serious condition (all imported), 319 asymptomatic cases (310 imported), 11 suspect cases (all imported). 6,566 traced contacts are currently under centralized quarantine.

    As of 5/1, 270.406M vaccine doses have been injected in Mainland China, an increase of 5.342M doses in the past 24 hrs.

    On 5/2, Hong Kong reported 2 new cases, both imported.

  33. 33.

    Barbara

    @Nicole:  I think Covid is going to really shake up our understanding of the immune system. There are some diseases like measles where getting the disease definitely provides strong immunity, but other diseases — like flu, and now possibly Covid — where a vaccine might confer better immunity. It’s definitely not the case that having the disease confers strong immunity. But really, that already seemed pretty obvious since we need to get yearly flu shots.

  34. 34.

    Sloane Ranger

    Saturday in the UK we had 1907 new cases but, as usual over the weekends this, and subsequent, figures should be considered an undercount due to weekend reporting delays and this will be a three day weekend due to Monday being a Bank (Public) Holiday. Anyway the 7-day rolling average is down by 10.9%. New cases by home nation,

    England – 1642 (down 404)

    Northern Ireland – 90 (down 18)

    Scotland – 175 (down 16)

    Wales – Does not report on Saturday’s)

    Deaths – Yesterday we had 7 deaths within 28 days of a positive test. This is a decrease of 32.7% in the rolling 7-day average. Deaths by nation, England – 6, Scotland – 1 and none in Northern Ireland and Wales. During the week ending 16 April, there were 402 deaths where COVID wa smentioned as among the causes of death on the Death Certificate.

    Testing – Not updated at weekends.

    Hospitalisations – Not updated at weekends.

    Vaccinations – As of 30 April, a total of 34,346,273 people had received 1 shot of a vaccine and 14,940,984 had had both shots. In percentage terms this means that 65.2% of all adults in the UK have had 1 dose of a vaccine and 28.4% were fully vaccinated. Vaccine uptake by home nation,

    England -1st jab = 65%, 2nd jab = 28.3%

    Northern Ireland – 1st jab =64.2%, 2nd jab = 29.1%

    Scotland – 1st jab = 63.4%, 2nd jab = 28.5%

    Wales – 1st jab =72.6%, 2nd jab = 29.7%.

    General – Resumption of foreign travel for non-essential purposes is still on track for England on 17 May, according to a Government Minister but to what countries and under what provisios is still not finalised. Also, he said that we were on track to completely relax all current restrictions on 21 June but things like social distancing and mask wearing would probably still be recommneded in at least some circumstances.

    Also, a band called “Blossoms”, who, to be honest, I’ve never heard of, will headline a gig for 5000 people in Liverpool tonight as part of a Government Pilot Programme to see if/how mass events can go ahead in the age of COVID. All attendees will have to take a lateral flow test just before the event and one afterwards and provide their contact details to NHS Test and Trace. We’ll see how it goes.

  35. 35.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Nicole: I was just watching an interview with some Singaporean doctor about fighting COVID in Singapore, and he was talking about the possibility of plugging the ~5% efficacy hole in the mRNA vaccines by doing a titer for COVID antibodies and giving people who tested negative a third shot. But it was a little weird because vaccination levels in Singapore are not yet nearly high enough for them to really be worrying about that, from a public-health/herd-immunity perspective. (Still, it struck me as characteristically Singaporean–this drive to be extremely thorough and not half-ass anything.)

  36. 36.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Barbara: The technology of mRNA vaccines may change a lot of the thinking, too–they’ve been in development for a long time but this is the first case of them really being deployed against a disease. It seems like these things can be super-effective compared to other approaches because they’re so specifically targeted–you can create a package that just produces a massive immune response to one particular molecule.

  38. 38.

    Ohio Mom

    Re: the tweet in the post about the US going from disgrace to the envy of the world in late January:

    The “envy of the world” award surely must belong to New Zealand. I think the US has a secure spot in the “most improved” category.

    Nicole (if you are still here):

    I think your friend should probably re-evaluate her choice of PCP. You have to wonder about all the mistakes he’s making that she hasn’t caught.

    This isn’t to say I haven’t had doctors whom I have caught screwing up. Some I have dropped, some I have given a gentle version of “I told you so!” It has depended on many variables. But none the instances involved an issue that is in the news Every Single Day.

  39. 39.

    J R in WV

    Was shopping yesterday, foodstuff and various not-lumber junk at the lumber yard.

    At the tiny steak and seafood shop, which has big signs (Masks Required; Masks Are Not Optional; only 6 customers at a time…  etc.) which people normally adhere to, rich prick comes in, 7th customer, no mask, holding a rag out in front of his face to pretend he was masking. Was driving a new Mercedes-Benz Bi-TurboV8 convertible, which google tells me lists starting at $187K, of course plus lots of options. South Carolina plates here in WVa.

    Pissed me right off, was glad I was pulling out my card and leaving with my salmon and pork chops. Wished I had yelled at the old fuck. Too polite for the good of society. Could have dropped salmon in the back seat floor of his new wheels, also  not nimble enough to think of that. “What’s that smell?” Oops.

  41. 41.

    Amir Khalid

    Malaysia’s Director-General of Heath Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah reports 3,418 new Covid-19 cases today in his media statement, for a cumulative reported total of 415,012 cases. He also reports 12 new deaths today, for a cumulative total of 1,533 deaths — 0.37% of the cumulative reported total, 0.40% of resolved cases.

    There are currently 30,339 active and contagious cases; 345 are in ICU, 175 of them intubated. Meanwhile, 2,698 patients recovered and were discharged, for a cumulative total of 383,140 patients recovered – 92.32% of the cumulative reported total.

    As of 1st May, Malaysia’s nationwide R0 was at 1.10, averaged over a seven-day moving window. Kedah has the highest R0 of any state at 1.26, followed by Kelantan at 1.21 and Melaka at 1.20.

    11 new clusters were reported today: Sungai Tengah, Sungai Sebemban, Sebujok, and Sains Bakam in Sarawak; Jalan Sri Putri 12 in Johor; Jalan Emas in Melaka; Kiara Jaya, Jalan Junjong and Limau Karangan in Kedah; and Kawasari Sembilan and Persiaran Raja in Selangor.

    Sungai Tengah, Sungai Sebemban, Sebujok, Jalan Sri Putri 12, and Jalan Emas are community clusters. Sains Bakam and Kiara Jaya are education clusters at Ministry of Educatin schools. Limau Karangan is an education cluster at a non-Ministry school. Jalan Junjong is a higher-educatiion cluster. Kawasari Sembilan and Persiaran Raja are workplace clusters.

    2,865 new cases today are local infections. Selangor reports 1,199 local cases: 57 in older clusters, eight in Kasawari Sembilan and Persiaran Raja clusters, 843 close-contact screenings, and 291 other screenings. Sarawak reports 587 cases: 178 in older clusters; 35 in Sains Bakam, Sungai Tengah, Sungai Sebemban, and Sebujok clusters; 315 close-contact screenings; and 59 other screenings. Kelantan reports 400 cases: 36 in existing clusters, 299 close-contact screenings, and 65 other screenings.

    Johor reports 213 cases: 60 in older clusters, 12 in Jalan Sri Putri 12 cluster, 80 close-contact screenings, and 61 other screenings.

    Kuala Lumpur reports 196 local cases: five in existing clusters, 122 close-contact screenings, and 69 other screenings. Terengganu reports 184 cases: 176 in existing clusters, seven close-contact screenings, and one other screening. Penang reports 145 cases: 18 in existing clusters, 59 close-contact screenings, and 68 other screenings. Sabah reports 115 cases: 50 in existing clusters, 50 close-contact screenings, and 15 other screenings. Kedah reports 101 cases: 32 in older clusters; 26 in Jalan Junjong, Kiara Jaya, and Limau Karangan clusters; 29 close-contact screenings; and 14 other screenings.

    Perak reports 77 cases: 22 in existing clusters, 36 close-contact screenings, and 19 other screenings. Negeri Sembilan reports 73 cases: 15 in existing clusters, 39 close-contact screenings, and 19 other screenings. Melaka reports 61 cases: 26 in older clusters, one in Jalan Emas cluster, 20 close-contact screenings, and 14 other screenings. Pahang reports 43 cases: three in existing clusters, 25 close-contact screenings, and 17 other screenings.

    Putrajaya reports eight cases: six close-contact screenings, and two other screenings. Labuan reports no local cases, but has seven imported cases. And Perlis reports four cases, all in existing clusters.

    10 new cases today are imported: seven in Labuan, two in Kuala Lumpur and one in Selangor.

    The deaths reported today are a 63-year-old man in Perak with diabetes, hypertension, and dyslipidaemia; a 67-year-old woman in Kelantan with diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, chronic kidney disease,and dyslipidaemia; a 56-year-old man in Negeri Sembilan with diabetes, hypertension, and dyslipidaemia; a 66-year-old man in Johor with diabetes and hypertension; a 64-year-old man in Negeri Sembilan with hypertension, stroke, and Parkinsonism; an 81-year-old woman in Sarawak, DOA with diabetes and hypertension; an 93-year-old woman in Kelantan, DOA with diabetes, hypertension, and dyslipidaemia; a 61-year-old man in Selangor with diabetes, hypertension, and obesity; a 73-year-old man in Johor with diabetes and hypertension; an 86-year-old man in Kuala Lumpur with diabetes, hypertension, and stroke; and an 89-year-old woman in Sarawak with diabetes, hypertension, rheumatoid arthritis, and heart disease.

  42. 42.

    Ruckus

    @Nicole:

    We aren’t all the same. We don’t all react to the same entity the same way. Some are more susceptible to something than others. I’m susceptible to bee stings, many/most are not, I have gotten very ill (hospitalized for over a week once) from some vaccines but not others, I have adverse reactions (some rather severe) to some medications that most do not have. Our bodies don’t all work the same. Look at the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines. They work in a different way than the vaccines of the last 100 yrs. They actually “talk” to our systems in a way that those systems understand, which is likely why they work so well, verses exposing us to the actual virus in a way that says “We hope that your body takes this as an assault and fights off this disease,” which is effectively what vaccines have done in the past. And that was far better than nothing and worked. Enough of the time. But mRNA is better.

  43. 43.

    Robert Sneddon

    @Ruckus: ​
     

    Look at the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines. They work in a different way than the vaccines of the last 100 yrs. They actually “talk” to our systems in a way that those systems understand, which is likely why they work so well, verses exposing us to the actual virus in a way that says “We hope that your body takes this as an assault and fights off this disease,”

    Ummm, not quite… the mRNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna are basically manufactured viruses, Frankenstein-like creations stripped down to the basics. They “infect” our body cells like real viruses and the messenger RNA payload forces the cell to make protein fragments rather than complete viruses as a real coronavirus would. Those proteins look like bits of the COVID-19 virus, particularly the “spike proteins” we’ve been warned about. Our body’s defence systems latch onto these foreign proteins and we develop resistance ahead of time, hopefully before we get infected with real COVID-19.

    The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine OTOH is a real virus but it’s not a dead or modified SARS-COV-2 virus. Instead it’s a chimpanzee adenovirus, ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 that’s been hacked to do the same sort of thing the mRNA vaccines do. The ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 virus in the vaccine invades our body cells and it forces the cells to make protein fragments similar to those of the outside of a SARS-COV-2 virus, parts of the spike protein (although not exactly the same fragments — this may become really important in the next year or two). The body reacts to these foreign proteins, makes antibodies and memory cells are primed to be triggered to produce more antibodies if they encounter real SARS-COV-2 in the future.

    Note that both the mRNA vaccines and the AstraZeneca vaccine cannot replicate themselves in the human body like a real virus can, all they can do is enter our cells and disintegrate to deliver their mRNA payloads which only produce fragments of the SARS-COV-2 virus, nothing that can cause infection or go on to replicate or infect others. The “shedding” garbage antivaxxers go on about it a myth, of course.

    Time was the only way to trigger an antibody reaction was to use attenuated live virus or killed virus as a vaccine. There are still some diseases and treatments that use this process but it’s becoming rarer and rarer and with the success of the mRNA vaccines I’d expect the number of those holdouts to decrease in the near future. There are candidate vaccines for COVID-19 being developed which use these approaches since they are proven to work and it’s possible to make a lot of these vaccines in a very short period of time by “breeding” real viruses. Their effectiveness is likely to be a lot less than the 21st century “engineered” vaccines dose for dose though.

  44. 44.

    Cermet

    @Robert Sneddon: No; don’t know where you got that idea but mRNA is nothing like a real virus.

    The mRNA vaccine is a small piece of a RNA strand (only the code for the spike in the real virus(as you correctly mention) ) and it is encapsulated in a nano-droplet of oil (not like any virus what-so-ever.)  Once in a cell this tiny strand tells the protein mfg system to create just the spike protean that is critical on the true covid virus shell.  This is then exposed on the cell surface alerting the immune system that something is very wrong.

    A virus is a long strain of RNA that creates many proteins (some virus’s are a strand of DNA) and give instructions on how to make the full virus (RNA and shell.) The shell is a complex system of proteins that form a very special shell that encapsulates the long RNA code complete with spikes on its surface; and after many hundreds are made, the cell is killed and the new real virus’s break free and flood the body

     

    Most of the rest of what you say is correct.

  45. 45.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ohio Mom: We are still doing pretty badly in terms of overall disease prevalence, but very, very well in terms of vaccine availability if you want it. So I suppose it depends on how you look at it.

  46. 46.

    Robert Sneddon

    @Cermet:  The mRNA vaccines are virus-like, not actual viruses which is why I described them as Frankenstein creations — they use viral protein-slash-lipid coatings to get absorbed into a cell through the cell wall. Their mRNA “payload” uses the cell’s structures, amino acids etc. to create new proteins as viruses do but they don’t produce new complete versions of themselves out of the proteins, they only create proteins the body’s defences will respond to, mimicking some parts of the outer coating of SARS-COV-2 virus particles.

    Viruses are self-replicating, leeching off the body cell’s resources but they make complete copies of themselves using, as you say, complete DNA templates carried within their own protein-encapsulated structures.

    The original comment I was responding to suggested that the mRNA vaccines were complete virus entities whereas they operate in a different way but they do some of the same things wild viruses do (enter body cells, subvert protein manufacture using the cell’s resources etc.).

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