Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

In my day, never was longer.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

You cannot shame the shameless.

Republicans in disarray!

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

You are here: Home / Politics / GOP Death Cult / Repubs in Disarray! Open Thread: Liz Cheney Has Calculated Her Options

Repubs in Disarray! Open Thread: Liz Cheney Has Calculated Her Options

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Donald Trump is an old man, not in the best of health, facing considerable legal jeopardy compounded by his failing business enterprises. Some (noisy) portion of the Republican party’s voters have pledged fealty to him, regardless of what Trump’s wavering attentions might mean for other, less prominent GOP members and their districts. Most of the national GOP leadership, elevated by the same Wingnut Wurlitzer tropes that crowned Trump, have publicly announced their loyalty to the Man over the Party (or our mutual commonwealth).

Liz Cheney is still young, by political standards — a full generation younger than TFG, or for that matter Mitch McConnell. She’s already volutarily unpersoned herself in the current Republican Party; the attention-seekers and sycophants who crowd Fox News’ greenrooms will never let her ‘disloyalty’ be forgotten, nor will the hardcore MAGAts forgive her for spotlighting their god-emperor’s nakedness. So she’s nothing to lose, and potentially much to gain, by assuming the mantle of Sensible Republican Anti-Trump Spokeswoman.

Worst that happens is she spends the next couple of decades giving I told you so statements from the security of conservative think tanks & corporate boards. But assuming that the current uneasy Republican balance collapses — that the contradictions between the permanent-party ‘conservatives’ and the manic Trumpistas fails — well, who better to lead the inevitable Not-Democrats party that survives, or arises, in a country where no less and no more than two national parties can thrive?

Captain Obvious Has Joined the Chat –

Jon Chait, at NYMag:

… The rationale for Cheney’s defenestration is that she has violated decorum. Her forceful denunciation of Trump’s lies “suggested that Cheney was not looking to persuade but to bludgeon. Rhetorical devices like putting THE BIG LIE in all caps gave the tweet a feeling of something one might hear on CNN or MSNBC,” explains Byron York. “The question is, how to address those Republicans and their beliefs.” National Review’s Dan McLaughlin adds, “If she can’t move off this topic as Mitch [McConnell] has, she needs to do that from the back benches.”

The catch, of course, is that Trump and his minions have neither modulated their tone nor moved off the topic. Nor, for that matter, has the rest of the party. The Republican establishment has made a display of affirming the defeated president’s status as its leader. Republicans leaders have made the pilgrimage to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring of their president-in-exile. Aspiring candidates — including not just Trump sycophants like Josh Hawley, but even candidates who have maintained some distance from him, like Nikki Haley — have announced that they will defer to Trump rather than run against him….

The demand that Cheney stop forcefully refuting Trump’s lies about the election is designed to force his enemies into unilateral disarmament. Republican leaders are free to flatter and placate him, but they are not free to call out his lies or return his attacks in kind. Trump’s critics can stay in the party, for now, but they must act like guests in somebody else’s home.

What’s astonishing about Cheney’s dissent is not only that she is such an unlikely figure to mount a doomed and lonely stand. She was born to the party and the conservative movement; she hasn’t got a moderate bone in her body. What’s more unusual still is that she has no obvious rationale other than sheer principle. Elected officials, faced with an unwinnable fight, nearly always yield to realism. Cheney apparently believes that respect for the rule of law is a nonnegotiable principle of conservatism…

Reader Interactions

92Comments

  1. 1.

    craigie

    Worst that happens is she spends the next couple of decades giving I told you so statements from the security of conservative think tanks & corporate boards.

    I’m not sure that’s the worst that happens
    (Reposted from the previous thread)

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I suspect Our Willard, who ran for president in part on the theory that he’d be a tougher and more respected leader than Obama at home and abroad, will not run for a second Senate term, if indeed he finishes this one.

    Broken and bested by a third-rate, racist game-show host. Old George must be beaming with pride.

  4. 4.

    mrmoshpotato

    “I think she’s got real problems”

    LOL! One Rethuglican from the 40+-years-a-shitpile party trashing another Rethuglican! Excellent!

  5. 5.

    dmsilev

    REPORTER: Mr. President, do you have any comments on efforts to oust Liz Cheney from the House Reublican leadership post?
    BIDEN: I don’t understand the Republicans. Let Them Fight.

    (I can dream, can’t I?)

  8. 8.

    Quicksand

    Oh, FFS.  Liz Cheney has not gone “full reverse-Tea-Party,” she is not willing to go “full reverse-Tea-Party,” and she will never go “full reverse-Tea-Party.”

    To say that gives her far, far, FAR too much credit.

  9. 9.

    Roger Moore

    There may be some calculation behind Cheney’s position, but I don’t think it’s one she would take if she didn’t honestly believe it. That’s a hell of a lot more than can be said for most of the worst Trump suck-ups. All but a handful of idiots know what Trump is, but they’re still publicly kissing his ring out of their kind of political calculation.

  11. 11.

    Brachiator

    Worst that happens is she spends the next couple of decades giving I told you so statements from the security of conservative think tanks & corporate boards. But assuming that the current uneasy Republican balance collapses — that the contradictions between the permanent-party ‘conservatives’ and the manic Trumpistas fails — well, who better to lead the inevitable Not-Democrats party that survives, or arises, in a country where no less and no more than two national parties can thrive?

    Since maybe the time of Newt Gingrich, the Republican Party has become the party of permanent obstruction and raw power, depending on the degree of control they have in Washington. They have effectively purged GOP moderates, and are creeping towards the acceptance the acceptance of permanent white minority rule.

    Neither Cheney nor Trump matter much to what damage the GOP may wreak on the country.

  12. 12.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Kevin McCarthy was caught trashing Liz Cheney on a hot mic

    I don’t believe for one minute that he was “caught” on a “hot mic.” That was no accident. I used to be just meh about McCarthy, but in the past two years I’ve come to viscerally loathe him.

  14. 14.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Roger Moore: Unless her dad is willing to shoot Trump in the face, she doesn’t really have any options. And she deserves every bit of the hurricane she and her despicable family helped to sow.

  15. 15.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I wish Tucker Carlson would stop making news so people would stop linking to clips of his face. I am so goddamned tired of looking at his patented “fish in the headlights” countenance. (Edit: Not calling you out, Jim; I’m thinking just as much of Wonkette and Aaron Rupar and Digby.)

  16. 16.

    Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)

    Clearly the Dems are in disarray.

    I could be wrong — I often am — but I still feel like this was simply a miscalculation on her part.  I think she just wanted to position herself as a leader in a post-Trump, non-cult Republican Party, but now she’s finding there’s no such thing.  The GQP is still in Trump’s pocket and has no desire to crawl out, but she’s taken her voice-of-reason act too far, and turning back isn’t an option.

    Oops.  Oh well.

  17. 17.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Can you imagine the feeding frenzy if this circular firing squad was happening the Dems (no less involving the daughter of a former vice president). But IOKIYAR.

  18. 18.

    Martin

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Agreed. The problem is do we deserve what’s about to come. The Trump GOP is preparing to rip democracy out by the roots. That’s a bit of a one-way trip. Once we lose the ability to choose our leaders, all that is left is violence.

    Needless to say, I’m rooting for Cheney on this one.

  20. 20.

    CaseyL

    I don’t believe for one instant that Cheney’s big donors will stick with her.  The only issues that matter to them are low taxes and deregulation, and they’ll get that from the GQP.  She’s not necessary to them: the GQP Party is.

    I’d love to think a schism is coming, but I doubt it.  Romney doesn’t have the courage to leave the Party, and Kinzinger… I don’t know what his deal is, but I don’t think he’ll leave, either.  There simply aren’t enough non-lunatic GQP voters or politicians left to make any difference.

  21. 21.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Unless her dad is willing to shoot Trump in the face

    Problem is, the protocol demands that the victim apologise profusely to Mr. Cheney for allowing his face to get in the way of Mr. Cheney’s shotgun, and I just don’t see TFG doing that. So probably not.

  22. 22.

    Benw

    Liz Cheney wants exactly the same things Trumpers want. White supremacy and a wealth-based ruling class with no consequences. She just wants the dumb motherfuckers to say the quiet parts quiet again.

  23. 23.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Martin: Who was on the Republican presidential ticket when Democracy was mugged in Florida in 2000?

  24. 24.

    Kay

    One provision — ensuring that low- and middle-income families pay no more than 7 percent of their income on child care — garnered support from 64 percent of voters, followed closely by free preschool for all 3- and 4-year-olds at 63 percent.

    JD Vance’s effort to make people hate child care and preschool is going well.

  25. 25.

    patrick II

    Liz only gets to tell Republicans “I told you so” if they lose by large margins.  If they take back the Senate or House in 2022 it will only reinforce the “message” they now have. An underestimated motive for Republican becoming the party of Q is that many of them are desperate to stay out of jail and will destroy democracy to institutionalize their criminality.

  26. 26.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Does anybody know, on this ineffably stupid Arizona recount/audit thing … who is paying for it? Not the taxpayers, I hope.

  27. 27.

    Another Scott

    I’m going to be disappointed if Cheney doesn’t take the rest of them down with her.
    (h/t Jay, downstairs)

    Seems like an obvious move for Liz Cheney here is to take Kevin McCarthy’s House floor speech calling for Trump to be censured and turn it into an actual censure resolution with the exact same language and see what happens now https://t.co/XA1XmSZL7b

    — Benjy Sarlin (@BenjySarlin) May 5, 2021

    [eta:] Yeah, I’m used to disappointment.  ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  28. 28.

    Shalimar

    @craigie: Worst that happens is the next insurrection is successful and Liz Cheney gets executed for opposing whoever the chosen emperor is.

  29. 29.

    jl

    It can be argued that McConnell, Pelosi and Schumer are too old as a group to be running the House and the Senate. But maybe not, since in their cases we are talking about calendar years old, and that is not the only measure of age.

    McCarthy on the other hand, seems disoriented, incoherent, and going in and out of  fugue states, and feeble minded. Someone needs to do a welfare check to make sure he is doing OK with the ordinary activities of daily living. Oldest of them all. I guess same could be said for Manchin and Sinema.

  32. 32.

    Ken

    The GOP is now living in Jonestown.

    Metaphorically, one piously hopes.

    (Or is it hypocritically, not piously?  I get those two confused.)

  33. 33.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    @CaseyL:  I’m not so sure, it depends on the donors of course, but the GQP has started to turn ugly on those who don’t toe the line. Those sorts of donor’s don’t like to be told anything, and the crazy is rarely good for business.

  35. 35.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Tucker Watch @TuckWatch
    Tucker claims that thousands of Americans have died after getting their COVID shots.

    Paul Ryan is on the board of Fox. I wonder how many adoring Beltway pundits still have his contact info.

  37. 37.

    Betsy

    This is such a good analysis.   Reading this blog is so rewarding because of this kind of thing from our front-pagers — and it’s way better than so much of formal journalism. Thank you, AL.

    (Also doesn’t hurt that it’s fun to read about Republican party dustups)

  38. 38.

    Poe Larity

    Wingnut calling for and end to Wingnuttery is proof we have not reached Peak Wingnut.

  39. 39.

    Martin

    Starting to wonder if Biden is ever going to get a head of DOJ Civil Rights. All of these anti-trans bills by states are violations of Title IX, which takes LOT of federal funds off the table for those states. Sounds like the AZ recount is also falling afoul of federal civil rights law.

  40. 40.

    dmsilev

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m sure thousands of Americans have indeed died after getting vaccinated…

    …from car accidents, old age, sticking an ice pick through their ear drums to avoid listening to Tucker, etc. Just not from anything that is actually associated with the vaccine.

  42. 42.

    Jeffro

    It’s hard to tell, since we seem to be Living History In Real Time, but we are here at the edge of where the national GQP ceases to be.

    Hey, they were warned: follow trumpov down the rabbit hole on anything and everything, stand for nothing, abandon your principles as sad/sick/corrupt/bought-and-paid-for as they may be, and this is where you’ll need up.

    Oh.

    Well.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    Conservatives have had enough of RINO Liz Cheney.

    Haha!  And we Democrats have had enough of your entire, goddamned, pile of shit, fascist party!

  44. 44.

    Jeffro

    @Quicksand: true.

    but she did draw a line here, which is more than almost any elected GQP official anywhere, national or state, can say.

    It’s all about principles.  We don’t have to agree with Liz to note that she has them, and they don’t.  Not good ones, anyway.

  47. 47.

    Ken

    @dmsilev: Derek Lowe’s post on false side effects has been linked here before.  As he says,

    Specifically, if you take 10 million people and just wave your hand back and forth over their upper arms, in the next two months you would expect to see […] about 14,000 of that ten million will die, out of usual all-causes mortality.

    The CDC vaccine tracker says we’re at around 250 million vaccinations, which (using Derek’s numbers) means somewhere over 175,000 people would have died within two month.  But only “thousands” have died according to Carlson?  Clearly the vaccine is working even better than we could have imagined, keeping people from dying of heart attacks, cancer, auto accidents, choking on a fish bone, …

  49. 49.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Unless her dad is willing to shoot Trump in the face 

    It would be worth it just to see the narcissist, orange, Kremlin’s shitstain fight having to apologize for Dick shooting him in his fat, orange, fascist face.

  50. 50.

    zhena gogolia

    I was about to turn off the computer but swung by Aaron Rupar to see what’s up. I was scrolling through tweets with Caitlyn Jenner talking to Sean Hannity. My husband looked over my shoulder and said, “Oh, Melania.”

    LOL

  51. 51.

    different-church-lady

    Tucker Carson = Howard Beale, except they won’t bother assasinating him.

  53. 53.

    Jay

    ? Big red button to release crabmeat into an enormous shark tank ☑️And this guy owns downtown ClevelandWelcome to the national security threat of kleptocracy. Bond villains literally buying America https://t.co/27L4krEHur— Paul Massaro (@apmassaro3) May 6, 2021

  54. 54.

    Geminid

    @mrmoshpotato: I’ve heard a conservative acquaintance complain bitterly about RINOs. If I ask him, though, he’ll vehemently disclaim being a Republican himself.

  56. 56.

    Jay

    @Ruckus:

    I regularly point out to the younger Associates, when they run up against “Customer Stupidity(TM)”, that half the population is below average intelligence,

    and that they know how dumb people of average intelligence are,…….

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dmsilev: per google, 147,000,000 have had at least one shot since December (IIRC?), starting with people who are older or have other health complications. I’m no actuary, but I suspect 3,200 out of that is not a huge number

  63. 63.

    Kay

    Club for Growth
    @club4growth
    · 4h
    Elise Stefanik is NOT a good spokesperson for the House Republican Conference. She is a liberal with a 35% CFGF lifetime rating, 4th worst in the House GOP. House Republicans should find a conservative to lead messaging and win back the House Majority.

    Ha. She was a moderate – they’re right about that- but then Trump came along and she turned into an insane liar almost overnight.
    They’re right not to trust her though. She’s completely full of shit.
    You can read about her here, from the reporter who covered her for 6 years and watched her oppose Trump, then try to avoid mentioning him at all, then transform miraculously into a Trumpster.
    It’s a good fit. She’s a lot like him.

  64. 64.

    piratedan

    what I am afraid is going to happen is while the Dems continue to walk along the top of the wall, hoping to let the wheels of justice slowly take their course is that the GOP will decide to triple-down and attempt to draw the country into an outright civil-war.

    they have the wealth to do so, they have plenty of outside actors who are willing to run logistical interference on their behalf and a good many of them have self-deluded themselves into buying into this fantasy.

    I additionally fear that while we are at heart a nation that is supposedly built upon the rule of law, is that those with wealth continue to buy those who write the laws to further insulate themselves from any repercussions for any of their actions.

    While there is a helluva lot of inertia to overcome, we’ve been watching foundations being chiseled away for decades now and while I don’t like to entertain the idea that we need our own kicker of asses and taker of names, I sure do wish that those gathering intel on crimes committed were moving less gingerly (considering the ongoing rate of amplification coming from the other side) so that we could defuse some of this by grinding those instigating this mess into the gear of lady justice.

  65. 65.

    Jay

    ? We’re so happy! We love being reunited, living here at the White House, with our pawsome parents! We spend lots of time with our mom @FLOTUS, getting snuggles and extra nom noms. We’re now working on a welcoming strategy for the new kitty sibling. So excited to meet her! pic.twitter.com/8pzo1P4vlW— The Oval Pawffice® ?? DOTUS Fans (@TheOvalPawffice) May 6, 2021

    US dog shelters struggle with returns after pandemic adoption boom https://t.co/9AAQk8qG2m— BBC News (World) (@BBCWorld) May 5, 2021

  66. 66.

    Kay

    Elise Stefanik
    @EliseStefanik
    · 3h
    Let’s set the Liberal media LIES straight. In 2016, I faced millions of dollars in attack ads for my strong support of President Trump. I never wavered. Here is one of the attack ads.

    She’s lying about this and what’s extraordinary about it is they have article after article documenting her transformation from anti-Trumper to cautiously pro-Trump to insane liar for Trump and she simply doesn’t care- she’ll just lie right to their faces about it.

    She’s much worse than Cheney, which I know is saying a lot but it’s true- she’s dramatically worse than Cheney. There really is no bottom.

  67. 67.

    Miss Bianca

    Meanwhile, over at LGM, where I made the mistake of wandering by earlier in the day, Paul Campos is all “Trump is Gonna Be the GOP Candidate in 2024 and He Could Definitely Win OMG” and no, I’m not gonna link to it.

  69. 69.

    different-church-lady

    @Jay: Okay, I’ve taken Cinco de Mayo a bit too seriously and forgotten to take the laser bondage into account.

  72. 72.

    Miss Bianca

    @different-church-lady:

    Okay, I’ve taken Cinco de Mayo a bit too seriously and forgotten to take the laser bondage into account.

    I…I just had to see that sentence again. I honestly have no idea where I’d see that sentence anywhere but this blog.

  76. 76.

    Another Scott

    @different-church-lady: You’re missing the Real scandal here.

    over 12 million americans have died after 'tucker carlson tonight' first aired in november 2016 ?

    — my pal andy™ (@andylevy) May 6, 2021

    What Else is Tuckums hiding??!

    (via Popehat)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    Anoniminous

    I am absolutely astonished it’s taken the ignorant hicks this long to get around to:

    Get Ready for False Side Effects

    “We’re talking about treating very, very large populations, which means that you’re going to see the usual run of mortality and morbidity that you see across large samples. Specifically, if you take 10 million people and just wave your hand back and forth over their upper arms, in the next two months you would expect to see about 4,000 heart attacks. About 4,000 strokes. Over 9,000 new diagnoses of cancer. And about 14,000 of that ten million will die, out of usual all-causes mortality. No one would notice. That’s how many people die and get sick anyway.

    But if you took those ten million people and gave them a new vaccine instead, there’s a real danger that those heart attacks, cancer diagnoses, and deaths will be attributed to the vaccine. I mean, if you reach a large enough population, you are literally going to have cases where someone gets the vaccine and drops dead the next day (just as they would have if they *didn’t* get the vaccine). It could prove difficult to convince that person’s friends and relatives of that lack of connection, though. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is one of the most powerful fallacies of human logic, and we’re not going to get rid of it any time soon. Especially when it comes to vaccines. The best we can do, I think, is to try to get the word out in advance. Let people know that such things are going to happen, because people get sick and die constantly in this world. The key will be whether they are getting sick or dying at a noticeably higher rate once they have been vaccinated.”

  81. 81.

    West of the Rockies

    Any chance Liz has access via Darth Cheney to info suggesting Trump and company are about to enter a world of serious legal suffering and disgrace?  Does she have an inside straight here?

  82. 82.

    Ruckus

    @Darkrose:

    I’m not as nice as Joy. I’m also not on TV.

    I’m not saying her take is wrong, just a little too cleaned up for me and she works where she can’t call him what he deserves.

    But he is far, far worse than just making fun of him says, which is why he has a job where he does, saying the crap he does, acting all stunned by stupid crap, and in general being a fucking asswipe. I don’t even know if it’s all an act or if he actually is that bad, but given the megaphone he has and which he uses it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. Everyone that works in front of a camera or with a byline for Murdoch is an asswipe. I’m pretty sure a lot more are as well.

  84. 84.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Liz has committed what has been the Unforgivable Sin to Republican voters at least since Obama was elected.  She has sided with the Democrats on something, anything, and treated politics as less than an existential war against absolute evil.  In 2009 McConnell and Rove had to publicly apologize for saying Rush was getting a little extreme in his descriptions of Obamacare.  Anything less than total war will release the rabid hounds.

  85. 85.

    Chris T.

    @Anoniminous: I see it’s also time for me to mutter darkly that every adult who died has breathed oxygen. Oxygen! Stay away from it! It’ll kill you!

  86. 86.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Jay: Assholes, I wondered what would happen to those adopted pets when folks went back to work. Pretty much what I expected: they just return them when they get tired of them. Assholes.

  87. 87.

    Booger

    I think the only problem with the efficacy of the Cheney shot is that is needs, like Moderna et al, a second dose two weeks later. Which may make the recipient feel worse, for a short time, before the full effect takes hold.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    @Ruckus: I’ve started paying more attention to the way DPRK_news does criticism.  It’s mocking without linking.  Quite often they don’t even have correct pictures of the mockee.

    Marshal Kim Jong-Un's desk does not crave attention from social media parasites.

    — DPRK News Service (@DPRK_News) May 5, 2021

    Don’t give them any air. They want retweets so badly. If people don’t do that, they lose power.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    Barry

    @patrick II: ”

    Liz only gets to tell Republicans “I told you so” if they lose by large margins.  If they take back the Senate or House in 2022 it will only reinforce the “message” they now have. An underestimated motive for Republican becoming the party of Q is that many of them are desperate to stay out of jail and will destroy democracy to institutionalize their criminality.”

    Also, if they strip her of her leadership position, whether the GOP takes the House or not, her vote will not matter, unless there is some odd razor-thing margin.

    I don’t believe for a minute that her corporate donors will have her back, since she’d be of zero positive value, and some negative value.

  90. 90.

    J R in WV

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​

    Tucker Watch @TuckWatch
    Tucker claims that thousands of Americans have died after getting their COVID shots.

    How amazing if would be if the 200,000,000 Americans now vaccinated were no longer dying~!!!~ Surely Tuckums didn’t expect the vaccines to stop the natural processes of death?

    I suspect it is more that he can’t do the math in his head to understand that a certain number of people in a much larger population are going to die [ of cancer, heart failure, stroke, etc, etc ] every day, regardless of their newly vaccinated condition.

    What a dumb ass Tuckums Carlson must be on this evidence.

    ETA: Getting further into the comments I see that I am far from the first commenter on B-J to make this point — it seems so obvious to all of us, but Tuckums can’t or doesn’t want to see it at all. Again, what a dumb ass!!!

  92. 92.

    Mary Ellen Sandahl

    @Jay: ​I’m afraid that was/is inevitable. A lot of people were moved to get pets who had little or no previous experience being pet-parents — and now that a lot of them – and the pet-savvier ones too – are emerging from lockdown, it becomes clear that going back outside to work and socialize AND having this other creature dependent on you, left alone back home, isn’t a workable situation.

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