"Be patient with one another. You know, some may say, 'I just feel more comfortable continuing to wear a mask.' They may feel that way … please treat them with kindness and respect." — Biden pic.twitter.com/v7UpJfIPGx
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 13, 2021
I’m gonna blame my week of lassitude on the Pfizer shot. It sure didn’t help, in this short term, although yes I know it was all for the best.
Pelosi keeps mask mandate on House floor despite CDC change, sparking GOP backlash: "It’s about control" https://t.co/wzeLonqR2u
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) May 14, 2021
Maybe she doesn’t want to look at your ugly, unvaccinated Repub faces. Nobody does!
… Asked by CNN whether the House’s mask mandate would be relaxed, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday said, “No. Are they all vaccinated?”
Her decision, which was outlined in updated guidelines issued Thursday night by Congress’s attending physician, drew swift backlash from Republicans who have long bristled at mask requirements. In a letter sent Thursday, 34 GOP lawmakers urged Pelosi to drop the House’s pandemic restrictions.
“It’s about control,” House Minority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) told Fox News host Laura Ingraham on Thursday evening. “She wants to control the House.”…
[Pro tip: She *does* control the House, Mr. Scalise, because she’s the Speaker and you’re not.]
… Pelosi (D-Calif.) pointed toward a lingering number of unvaccinated House members as part of the decision to mask rules in place on the House floor. Pelosi said last month that roughly a quarter of legislators have yet to receive a coronavirus vaccine and noted: “We cannot require someone to be vaccinated.”
Some Republicans have said they aren’t getting vaccinated because they’ve had covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, and now have antibodies. Others, including Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) and Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.) have publicly declined to take a vaccine…
“You would hope that science would guide them to protect themselves, their family members and be good colleagues in the workplace to get vaccinated,” Pelosi said last month. “And the sooner that happens, the better for everything.”
anything else is simply obeisance to a massive lie.
— Ben White (@morningmoneyben) May 12, 2021
Our Failed Punditocracy:
Yeah sure man the defining crisis of a generation will be completely forgotten in 18 months. https://t.co/X2lJ6EWdFI
— Reinstated Doorknob Licker (@agraybee) May 13, 2021
Voters are going to punish Biden for prosperity and full employment https://t.co/Ul5e2WPXoE
— Alex Hazanov. (@alexhazanov) May 13, 2021
One of the iron laws of punditry is that Republicans are incapable of being big stupid fuckups. Their message is always good, and if we can’t see why, it’s because they understand America in a way we don’t.
— Reinstated Doorknob Licker (@agraybee) May 13, 2021
RandomMonster
Good morning one and all.
germy
Baud
Our voters tend to forget. Their voters make up whatever reality they need to to fight the long war. We definitely need that to change.
germy
Baud
@RandomMonster: Good morning.
germy
NotMax
All politicked out for the week. So now for something completely different.
Holy Noxzema*, Batman. I like Sweden, really I do, but what the heck’s up with Flying Jacob?
*ref.
natem
@germy:
Well, yeah, but tax hikes and socialism, y’know?
RandomMonster
Pelosi keeping the very public symbol of masking on the house floor until congress is fully vaccinated is clever.
Nicole
The media is wired for Republicans and the Republicans are testing the boundaries of that wiring as hard as they can. Watching Liz Cheney on Today spout blather about Biden’s “socialist agenda” and then Savannah Guthrie’s response “So, are you going to run for President?” started my eyes rolling so hard I pulled an ocular muscle. I gave up on watching the rest.
SiubhanDuinne
Good morning, everyone! ???
? Vaccinated, and I feel so fine ??
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
Good morning.
mrmoshpotato
So true!
germy
germy
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
Vividly remember the “Take it all off” ad, but had forgotten the jingle at the end (“The closer you shave, the more you need Noxzema — Noxzema Medicated Comfort Shave”).
germy
germy
Republicans are too stupid and lazy to write their own bills.
Republicans be vibin’.
mrmoshpotato
I added some clarification to Nancy SMASH!’s response. See if you can spot it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Every time Scalise opens his mouth, I wonder how a near death experience turned him into an even worse person.
NotMax
@germy
2012? Riffle the calendar backward some more.
narya
Went for my first completely unmasked run this morning. Yeah, I had one in a pocket just in case, and I’ve been mostly wearing it around my neck since I was at shot #2 + 2 weeks, but today I decided that I’d run w/o it as a way to break myself into unmasking gradually. Still gonna mask up in stores, and it’s unclear what’s going to happen at work, but I’m still working from home anyway.
NeenerNeener
Bill Maher is fully vaccinated and tested positive for COVID. He’s asymptomatic. Now I’m worrying about going out again, because I had service people in my house for three days handling water damage from my washing machine and one of the young guys that pulled up the sheet flooring kept pulling his mask down. In my neck of the woods there’s a high incidence of COVID among 20-somethings.
I could have it and be asymptomatic now…but I’ve got to go to a follow-up doctor appointment today, plus I need to find someone to replace the flooring in my house and I’m going to be using the laundromat for weeks…etc. Ugh.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
Gunilla Knutsson. A name etched deep into the gray matter. Didn’t have to pause for more than a quarter of a second to retrieve it from organic storage.
;)
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone ???
Matt McIrvin
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised. We forget everything else unless it’s propagandized super-hard. People “remember” 9/11 but they don’t even remember that correctly–it’s possible to get them to blame Obama for it. COVID could end up blamed on Joe Biden or on President Hillary Clinton.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Yum-NO!
MattF
And Jen Rubin sees the light re: Liz Cheney. This is Rubin’s pattern. She’s held on to Mitt for the long term, but he’s pretty much the only one.
hueyplong
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: “Every time Scalise opens his mouth, I wonder how a near death experience turned him into an even worse person.”
I’ve never wondered about that. Their reaction to literally every event is to double down. And then there’s the old saw about adversity revealing as opposed to building character.
mrmoshpotato
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I was thinking that myself too.
trnc
@germy:
Pfizer email page.
https://www.pfizer.com/contact/email
The Thin Black Duke
@Matt McIrvin: Uh, no. People remember the shit that impacts them personally, and unlike 9/11, everyone in the United States was affected by Covid.
Steve in the ATL
@germy: I got the Pfizer vaccine. Does that mean I’m going to start donating to republicans now? How will I explain that to my children?!
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
germy
@trnc:
Thank you for the link.
This is how I’m beginning my email:
“Dear Pfizer. Thank you for the vaccine. Also, please stop funding fascists.”
germy
@Steve in the ATL:
You’re shedding donations, as am I.
Also, I was disappointed I didn’t have any side effects. Just a little soreness on the arm, not much else.
I started getting paranoid enough about it that I wondered if the dumb drugstore where I got my vaccine didn’t follow storage protocols.
MattF
@Steve in the ATL: I think it means you already have. Pfizer isn’t giving away the vaccine.
germy
@rikyrah:
Thank you for the links you bring here. You’ve provided lots of interesting reading.
Geminid
I saw a poll this morning. It was released yesterday by OHPredictive, and polled 935 registered Arizona voters, online. The poll tested Mark Kelly’s positive/negative ratings:
All Arizonans- 45%/38%, +7%. Dems- 73%/13%, +60% Indies-42%/35%,+7%. Rs- 21%/64%, -43%.
Kyrsten Sinema:
All Arizonans, 44%-36%, +8%. Dems, 54%-26%, +28%. Indies, 43%/34%, +11%. Rs, 36%/48%, -12%.
Kelly was polled against six prospective 2022 challengers. His lead averaged about 45%/37%. I know little about the poller except that they are based in Phoenix.
trnc
@trnc:
Argh! I get this error when I tried to submit, even though I made sure I had everything filled out.
“There was a problem with your form submission. Please refresh the page and try again.”
Wapiti
@germy: Reminds me of when people were warning that airplane cockpit doors should be locked for the entire flight, like the Israeli airline El Al did to block hijackers.
Oh, no! That would affect airline profits. Then 9-11 happens. Oh, nobody could have predicted…
Soprano2
No, it’s stupid. Some of them are never going to get vaccinated. Are they going to still be wearing masks a year from now because 20 of them aren’t vaccinated? For over a year we’ve been saying “Follow the science”, but now that the CDC has said vaccinated people don’t need to wear face masks a lot of liberals are saying “Hey, wait, why are you saying that, I want to keep my mask!”. IMHO what she should have done was say that those who can prove vaccination don’t have to wear face masks, but the ones who aren’t vaccinated have to continue wearing them. That follows the science, is fully justifiable, and would still piss off the Republicans who don’t want to get vaccinated. This way, she sounds like she doesn’t want to “follow the science”. It’s a dumb move. It might make you feel good because it pisses off Republicans, but to the average American it sounds stupid.
MattF
People who think Biden is too nice to deal with Republicans are probably wrong.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@germy:
McConnell again.
Baud
@Soprano2:
Enforcing a rule against only the GOP right now would be a bigger headache IMHO. She either keeps it or ditches it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@mrmoshpotato:
I had a much darker thought involving a Gunny Hartmann-like observation of the value of good training and lots of range practice, but it sounded really ugly as I typed it so I didn’t say it…. lol
WaterGirl
@germy: Judd Legum is doing god’s work.
MattF
@Soprano2: Unfortunately, as many as half the Republican representatives may be unvaccinated. That justifies requiring masks.
ETA: Fixed the link.
Soprano2
@Baud: Well, then she should follow what the CDC says and ditch it. Or, it could be like the metal detector – something they don’t like but comply with. It could also motivate some of them to get vaccinated!! My point remains – we can’t go around hollering to “follow the science” for a year and a half, then when CDC says people who have been vaccinated are so protected that they don’t need to wear face masks anymore say “No, you can’t say that!”. The vaccine protects you from Covid much better than any face mask ever did. You’re going to hear hundreds of versions of “Why won’t Nancy Pelosi follow the science, like she’s been saying we should do for the past year?”.
Around here, many communities NEVER had any kind of mask or distancing rule. I’ve got teacher friends who have been back in the classroom full time since last fall. Right now, my city is the only place in this area that still has any masking or capacity restrictions (we’re the only city of any size, so that makes sense). The CDC is acknowledging what a lot of people are already doing IMHO.
germy
@MattF:
Soprano2
@MattF: It justifies making the unvaccinated still wear masks. That’s what the CDC guidance says! Why do so many people think that even if they’re fully vaccinated they still aren’t protected at all from getting Covid? All of the evidence says otherwise. Anyone who thinks they are going to have to live in a world totally without Covid before they quit wearing face masks is going to be wearing a face mask for the rest of their life! Those numbers for Congress show almost 60% of the House is vaccinated. She needs to make the unvaccinated wear masks; everyone else should be able to go without if they want to.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
I was wondering if there’s a way to give my Pfizer vaccine back.
Betty Cracker
Kinda wish AOC would empty a can of bear spray in Greene’s stupid face.
Geminid
@NeenerNeener: Bill Maher’s positive Covid test is about the only thing I’ve ever seen about him that’s positive.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
Greene would fundraise off that.
Soprano2
That would feel good, but ignoring her is the right thing to do. People like Greene feed on attention; denying her that attention is the best tactic. If you can make her look childish at the same time, that’s a bonus.
And yeah, I probably would have thrown someone like Greene out of the pub eventually.
germy
@Geminid:
I thought he said he’d gotten the vaccine.
WaterGirl
@trnc: I didn’t get an error, but it kept bringing me back to the same page to submit my form. I tried 5 times and then said fuck it.
Baud
@Soprano2:
What does the CDC say to do when you’re in an indoor space with a large number of people who you know are likely not vaccinated.
We need to start blaming the Republicans instead of echoing their talking points. The mask mandate in Congress will go away in due course.
MattF
@Soprano2: I see what you’re saying. I guess I’m still figuring this one out. And I guess I agree that pissing off Republicans is not a good enough reason.
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
Got my second Pfizer yesterday. So far, like you, just a sore arm (it’s very sore, though!) Last night I felt a little woozy and unsteady on my pins, but I had a normal night’s sleep* and am pretty energetic** this morning. No other side effects, and I hope that holds.
* (first shot knocked me right out and I slept nearly round the clock)
** (for me, that is)
WaterGirl
@Baud: The House chambers make for a very packed place. I think Pelosi is absolutely doing the right thing. If they don’t want to be inconvenienced by wearing a mask, the Republicans in the house can get the fucking vaccine.
Spanky
@Steve in the ATL:
“The microchip made me do it.”
Soprano2
@Baud: If that’s the direction she wants to go, then she should say “When “x”% of our members are vaccinated I’ll lift the mandate.” Just saying “Are they all vaccinated?” doesn’t get it, because I guarantee you that some of them will never get the vaccine. Is she going to keep the mask mandate in place forever because in the end 20 people won’t get vaccinated? They’re already at 59% of the members vaccinated – it wouldn’t take many more for them to be at 70%. It might push some waverers to go ahead and do it.
Geminid
@Geminid: There is an obvious small error in my reporting on the Arizona poll’s finding for Sinema’s ratings among Independents. I think I got most of the numbers right, though.
Soprano2
Actually, I find myself hoping that they’ll all give it to each other. All the Democrats are vaccinated, so even if any of them do get it they’ll get a mild or asymptomatic case.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Just in practical terms, I don’t see how Pelosi can lift the mask mandate for some House members only. Whoever is supposed to police this would have no way to know who was vaccinated and who wasn’t
Geminid
@germy: My understanding is that Maher was vaccinated, but still tested positive and is asymptomatic. His show was cancelled. To my disappointment, for a only a week.
Betty Cracker
@Soprano2: AOC’s response about having been a bartender who ejected patrons like Greene was perfect. According to CNN, Greene showed up at AOC’s office in 2019 (before Greene was elected) with a goon who later participated in the insurrection and childishly taunted AOC’s staff. There’s video. Here’s a quote:
Greene is deranged, and she’s not the only nutbar in that chamber. I sincerely worry about the safety of our members.
MattF
@Betty Cracker: Gotta say, I’ve learned a thing or two about derangement. So many examples.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Greene is a one-trick pony. The following behind someone she disagrees with, yelling and harassing, is exactly what we saw Greene doing to one of the Parkland kids.
Green is a disgrace to the office, not to mention to humanity.
Speaking of the Parkland kids, I wonder when we will see one of them run for office.
zhena gogolia
@MattF:
Oh, I hate the NYT political reporters so damn much.
Matt McIrvin
@NeenerNeener: It’s a little surprising to me that Maher is even vaccinated, given some of the stuff he’s said in the past, but I guess he came around.
I actually find the reports of prominent people with breakthrough infections reassuring–given the field trial results, we’d expect to hear about a few, and generally they’re asymptomatic or mild and wouldn’t have been detected at all without aggressive testing. It’s a sign that the vaccines are pretty much working according to expectations.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
The CDC guidelines are pretty blanket for vaccinated people — you can do whatever you want and not worry about whether other people are vaccinated. At least, that’s how I read it. (Exceptions for public transportation, health-care settings, and prisons.)
Geminid
@Soprano2: I think Marjorie Taylor Greene must have hit herself in the head with a kettleball during a crossfit workout. Maybe more than once.
SFAW
@Steve in the ATL:
“Start”? Pretty rich coming from a latter-day Pinkerton.
Kidding, of course. Literally. How’s life in the wilds of ATL these days?
Jeffro
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
(Scalise gasping as he lies bleeding on a ballfield)
“…god…if I ever get out of this…I’m going to use what little time I have left…to inflict as much unnecessary misery as I can on my fellow Americans…I’m serious, lord…even more pro-gun, anti-abortion, pro-corporate tax code giveaways…the whole deal…”
(passes out)
(wakes up in hospital bed)
“…I’m…I’m alive? Oh, it’s A SIGN!…”
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: She’s got a Palookaville vibe, like she’s been hit in the face a lot. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, but it wouldn’t surprise me if her antics attracted such a response.
Betty
@natem: Medicare negotiation of drug prices is likely a big concern for pharma.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Someone here speculated about Greene using Human Growth Hormone. Not unheard of among gym rats. Roger Stone has a similar look.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
I assume it’s from bad Botox.
Jeffro
@Geminid:
@zhena gogolia:
@Betty Cracker: porque no los tres?
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Congress seems analogous.
Remember, it’s not just the GOP members but their staffers.
ETA:
Soprano2
That would explain a lot.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Our university hasn’t lifted the mask mandate, as far as I’ve heard.
Soprano2
Some of these Republicans might start wearing masks voluntarily to protect themselves from vaccinated people. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I’m going to be interested to see what our city does about their mask and capacity ordinance now. They set goals for lifting them; I hope they stick to that, because they’re pretty close already, and since they said they were going to do it that’s what they should do.
CindyH
@trnc: my submission kept indicating to fill in fields that were already filled out – I gave up
Fair Economist
@Soprano2: If and when COVID becomes rare, Pelosi can drop the mask mandate. IMO it really *is* to early to drop them in general – there are still lots of cases and it’s still the #3 cause of death in the US (although it will start falling back soon at current change rates).
CindyH
@Soprano2: I love Nancy Smash, but I agree with you on this.
Ken
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Announce that members can register with the House sergeant-at-arms by showing their vaccine card with the two shots, and authorizing them to call their doctor’s office and verify the card’s validity. Registered members can go without the mask. Unregistered members must mask.
This may cause some pain to any Republicans who have been vaccinated but are claiming otherwise for political reasons. Good.
Soprano2
I think this is going to take a long time. How do you define “rare”? I’m a big fan of metrics – give me something measurable to hang my hat on. I have been a big hater of this “just a little while longer” stuff about restrictions. That doesn’t tell me anything about what has to happen to remove them. How long is “a little while”? One month? Six months? What needs to happen for them to go away? Tell us, so we can work toward that.
Why do so many vaccinated people act like they still have a good chance of catching Covid and getting really sick or dying? I just don’t get it.
geg6
@trnc:
Sent them a nastygram. Fuck these people.
Soprano2
@Ken: This is an excellent idea! It’s what she should do, and it follows CDC guidance. It’s easily defendable. Saying “Are they all vaccinated?” is not, because it’s never going to happen. I love Nancy Pelosi, but I think she’s making a mistake here.
germy
For me, it’s the variants. I wonder if some variant is bubbling up somewhere that’ll end up in my town.
For example, the UK variant first showed up at a jewelry store about a fifteen minute walk from my house. Some tourists from NJ brought it up with them. I don’t know how they got it.
brendancalling
@NotMax: Good lord! Is that man trying to flay the skin from his face?
Baud
@CindyH:
People can disagree about anything. Blowing up picayune matters into major controversies is the job of Republicans and the media. I don’t really care on what precise date Nancy lifts the mask mandate. And the CDC guidance is a national guidance that leaves room for exceptions for specific workplaces.
Fair Economist
@Soprano2: There are lots of ways to define “rare” but COVID risk is not there yet. There are some Representatives with medical issues that mean they can’t rely on being protected, even with vaccination, and at least one Rep was a breakthrough case after full vaccination.
Besides, Pelosi is just enforcing current CDC guidance, given that she’d have problems forcing only the unvaccinated to wear masks.
geg6
@Soprano2:
As far I can tell, the science says that in an enclosed space where there are many unvaccinated people (there are some estimates that half the Republican caucus in the House are not vaccinated) and where there are possibly some members with health conditions that may not allow them to vaccinate, it is best to mask. That it pisses off the GQP members is simply a bonus of following science.
Raven
@Ken: if they can’t make it mandatory for military members because it’s not FDA approved how they gonna do that?
Mallard Filmore
@Ken:
“Show your vaccine passport to the guard …”
Soprano2
@germy: So far the vaccines have been shown to be effective against variants. I don’t care if someone wants to wear a mask in public for the rest of their life; just don’t require everyone to do it when they don’t feel they need to and the science says they don’t.
I know that this has been a traumatizing experience for most people, and it’s going to take awhile to shake the feeling that death is around every corner. I think it all has to do with people’s life circumstances and how comfortable they are with risk.
Fair Economist
@germy: The UK “variant” is currently dominant in the US, so it doesn’t really count as a “variant” for us anymore.
I’m concerned about the Indian variants (the official variant is old and not a problem, but there are sub-variants which almost have to be problematic to explain India’s current crisis) but fortunately for us the UK had decided to become a testbed for what happens when a widely vaccinated population with minimal control measures is exposed to the Indian variants, which are already there and spreading. Now that we have a decent and capable President if we need action it will happen before things get too bad here.
Soprano2
@geg6: I looked at that tweet above; it says that 58% of the members of the House are known to be fully vaccinated. I guess my biggest quarrel is with her flippant answer “Are they all vaccinated?”. She should have answered something like “We’re studying the new CDC guidance and we’ll have an answer for you soon.” What she said just feeds into the Republican belief that she’s punishing them, and it sets up endless questions from the press “Why aren’t you following the CDC guidance?” It was a rare case of her screwing up IMHO.
Fair Economist
@Mallard Filmore:
As the brouhaha over concealed carry on the floor showed, the guard can’t actually stop people. The House could have a rule with a fine but I’m guessing there’s never been a rule which only affects particular members and that’s a line Pelosi is reluctant to cross.
geg6
@Soprano2:
I don’t know about you or where you live, but I plan to keep masking because I don’t trust the assholes around me in my county to do what is needed and that is for every kind of communicable disease. I will be masking indoors for the rest of my life, especially during flu and cold season. I have now gone 14 months without a cold or flu. I also plan to mask outdoors during high allergy seasons as I have found through this debacle that I have fewer allergy symptoms. I will also be requesting a vaccine card from anyone seeking entry into my house. No vaccine card, no entry, I don’t give a shit who you are.
There is nothing on earth wrong with wearing or requiring a mask. My employer, a large research university, has already announced that, regardless of what the CDC says and who has been vaccinated, they will be requiring masks in all University buildings at least through the Fall 2021 semester. I do not have a problem with that. I have no idea why you’re so hysterical about it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I just came back from my doctor. He asked if I was vaccinated and when I said yes, he said we could take off our masks.
He talked about CDC data on vaccine effectiveness that came out today. He said it showed that Moderna, which both he and I had, was 91% effective after one shot
ETA: OTOH, he said I need an ultrasound of my left carotid artery, which I’ll have next Wednesday. It’s always something at my age.
Nelle
@Soprano2: If I live with an immunocompromised person who has been advised by her doc not to get the vaccine, then I don’t want to chance an even mild , asymptomatic case of Covid. It isn’t just about me. That and variant concern.
Baud
@Soprano2:
Your proposed response would also feed into Republican beliefs. And once she lifts the mask mandate, the Republicans will believe they made her do it. There’s no savvy way around Republican attacks.
Robert Sneddon
@Soprano2:
It’s not a “good” chance, it’s a chance. Vaccinated people can catch this disease, become infectious and pass the disease onto others who aren’t or can’t be vaccinated and those people can get very sick and possibly die.
You want vaccination to be perfect and it isn’t. Vaccination improves the odds of someone not catching the disease, the odds of not being infectious if they do catch it, the odds of not getting seriously sick, the odds of not dying but those odds are never zero. Even vaccinated people can get seriously sick and some of them will die from complications.
We lucked out, the assorted vaccines now being injected into people’s arms are very effective (I mean, 90% efficacy double-blinded is a fucking gold-plated miracle) but they’re not 100% effective. You don’t want to hear that going by your constant whining about how you want the hygiene restrictions, masking, distancing, closed facilities etc. to stop or for someone to give you a hard deadline date for this to happen regardless of how the disease is progressing.
Me, I’d suggest a daily reported new cases limit of less than 1 per 100,000 population and less than five deaths reported nationwide if you want to take the restrictions off. For the US that would be less than 3300 cases a day. Yesterday the US reported 39,000 new cases and 700-odd deaths so there’s still some way to go.
Jinchi
My exasperation with this whole debate is that, even in the US, less than half the population has been vaccinated, but everyone is talking about it as though we’re done.
The CDC’s actual guidance is very limited: if everyone around you is vaccinated you can meet with no mask requirement. There are very few places where I know the status of even a minority of the people around me.
I think the CDC would have been a lot smarter to issue guidance that you can stop wearing masks when 70% of your community are vaccinated.
Soprano2
@geg6: I have no idea why you’re so hysterical about it.
I live in “MAGA land” – many towns around here NEVER had any mask or distancing restrictions. I feel lucky that since I live in a relatively large city with a sensible city council we did have a reasonable ordinance. I am not “hysterical” about it. I don’t care what personal choices people want to make about wearing masks. What I do care about is that we’ve been saying “follow the science when making policy”, but then when the CDC says something is possible that we don’t like, we suddenly turn around and say “I don’t care about what the science says” when it comes to policy. I am not going to be wearing face masks forever, not indoors and especially not outdoors. I understand and have supported the necessity of it and how it keeps people safe, but I personally don’t want to do it forever. I am fully vaccinated, as is my husband and my mother, so it’s safe for us to be around each other. I think Pelosi made a mistake in her response about the policy, is my main point.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Robert Sneddon: Yesterday Sanjay Gupta was saying that the new data said vaccinated people couldn’t pass COVID along even if they had it because their bodies didn’t build up enough virus load to do that.
I don’t remember his exact words so it’s possible he hedged and said something like “probably” couldn’t pass it along, but he said we’d suspected this all along and the new data bore out those suspicions.
Baud
@Soprano2:
You’re spreading misinformation when you say Pelosi isn’t following the CDC when the CDC specifically allows for local variation. to its guidance. You can disagree with Pelosi’s decision or how she presented it, but the CDC hasn’t specifically said Congress should lift the mandate.
And you are now free to go without masks, and I assume you’re not in Congress, so I’m not sure why you are concerned about having to wear face masks forever.
JoyceH
@Ken: I was thinking this yesterday. Have the vaccinated provide documentation to the sergeant at arms and get a maskless floor pass. The unvaccinated or those who won’t provide the documentation must continue to wear a mask. Only the mask now has to be an N95. N95s are uncomfortable and unadorned with stupid signage. Ought to speed up the process.
Soprano2
@Nelle: I’m curious about how immunocompromised people managed before Covid happened. I totally understand those types of situations, but the truth is that Americans are not going to wear masks and socially distance forever because of them. They didn’t do it before Covid, and they won’t do it once Covid becomes just another disease we could encounter.
sdhays
@Soprano2: I don’t have an opinion on whether Nancy is making the right call because I figure there are a lot of factors going into her decision that I assume the average person is unaware of, but I guarantee you there are probably 5 people who don’t work in Congress that actually give a shit about their members of Congress having to wear masks while pretending to do their jobs (in the case of Republicans).
The rest are people who are just always “outraged” by “something” and it really doesn’t matter what they think or say. Once the mandate is lifted, they’ll move on to something else to be outraged about. Maybe Nancy will even wear a tan suit!
If Nancy is making a mistake, it’s not hurting anyone.
Baud
@sdhays:
To be fair, they’re all on the cast of Morning Joe.
germy
The tan suit is for concealing the vanilla ice cream stains.
Jinchi
But the people who work and move through the House isn’t exclusively “members of the House”. It includes all the staff, their families, people coming to petition or lobby their interests, reporters, and on and on. We also know that the distribution isn’t random. Stand by a group of Democratic Reps and you’re probably surrounded by a group tha’s completely vaccinated.
Stand by a group of Republicans and you’ve got a fair chance of being near someone who thinks everyone should catch the plague.
germy
Kelly
Last week Oregon Guv Brown’s rule was masks until 70% of Oregonians are vaccinated which should happen around mid June. I am not a biologist let alone an epidemiologist but I thought that was a good rule. As soon as the new CDC guidance came out she went with the CDC. Masks will vanish here in deep red rural Oregon. I think the CDC is premature but we might as well align with the CDC right away.
Ken
My view is that all rules only affect particular members, when those members violate the rules.
Soprano2
@Robert Sneddon: No, I want metrics!! I want things that are measurable. I hate the ones that just set a date and said they’re going to lift restrictions no matter what is happening. You’ve completely misread the things I’ve been saying all along. And yes, I know that vaccines aren’t 100% – nothing is. Are you suggesting that because they’re not 100% we need to wear masks and social distance forever, never having concerts again, never eating in a restaurant? That’s unrealistic.
I think it was a mistake for Pelosi to say “Are they all vaccinated?”, because they’re never all going to be vaccinated!
germy
yellowdog
@zhena gogolia: And theaters and other entertainment indoor venues!
rikyrah
@Soprano2:
I disagree.
Got all those muthaphuckas who won’t get vaccinated. WHY endanger anyone else?
Keep the mask mandate.
Soprano2
@rikyrah: Maybe they’ll all sicken and kill each other. We couldn’t be that lucky, could we?
rikyrah
@geg6:
Amen.
Had a co-worker today ask me if this means we don’t have to wear a mask inside the office.
My response:
” I don’t trust these people.”
I will be double-masked until September at the earliest.
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2:
Part of what is cheesing me off about the current discourse is that it assumes that every adult who cares is fully vaccinated by now, but I’m not fully vaccinated. A big chunk of the country only got access in late April and is still between shots, or less than 2 weeks from the second one.
So I’m going to have to spend a few weeks avoiding going into retail businesses at all because I know close to 0% of the people in there will be masked, including the unvaccinated plague rats.
Soprano2
@Matt McIrvin: Ok, I get that. That sucks, and people seem to have forgotten that vaccination only opened up fully in the middle of April (who would have believed we’d be this far along in January?). Like I said, I don’t fault anyone who still wants to wear a face mask and be careful because of their particular situation. I don’t have a problem if people think the CDC did this too soon. Maybe they did. But we can’t say “follow what the science says” and then deny what the science says. The science is saying more and more that not only are vaccinated people protected from Covid, they don’t seem to be spreading it either if they do happen to be one of the few vaccinated people who get infected. It seems to me that some people will never be convinced that these things are true no matter how much evidence of it there is
I’ve heard exactly one medical person explain how there is Covid in the lungs and Covid in the nasal passages and mouth, and that these are two different things. They didn’t know how much Covid people who are fully vaccinated had in their nasal passages and mouth, which is why they didn’t know at first whether fully vaccinated people could spread it. When I heard that, it was like a light bulb went on and then I understood why they were still recommending vaccinated people be careful. That’s also why fully vaccinated people don’t get sick – they don’t get Covid in the lungs like unvaccinated people do, at least according to this doctor. I wish more of the medical people who go on TV and radio had talked about this. I heard it on a People’s Pharmacy podcast.
topclimber
What Would Fauci Do?
Robert Sneddon
@Soprano2:
I gave you metrics — less than one new case a day per 100,000 people, less than 5 deaths a day nationwide. With a lot of effort and goodwill and masking and vaccinations and hygiene and social distancing and contact tracing and hard lockdowns when localised outbreaks occur then maybe the US could be open for business by Thanksgiving this year under those metrics. Maybe.
If we, meaning the planetary population, are really unlucky then a mutant offspring of something like the Indian variant will run rampant around the world and we’ll have to lock down hard again everywhere while the bodies keep on piling up and the hospitals are bulging at the seams and the vaccine makers are scrambling to produce a Mk2 vaccine that will deal with the Vile Offspring better than the current vaccines. Those vaccines are optimised for the original coronavirus which is becoming less and less prevalent in case histories as it’s being outperformed in the marketplace of people’s lungs. Fortunately all of the known widespread variants are controlled somewhat by the existing vaccines but their efficacy is less, maybe (it’s fuzzy and the data is messy).
The best way to stop such a Vile Offspring from appearing is to social distance and mask and vaccinate and do all the things you don’t want to do and which you regard as an unfair imposition on you personally. Those impositions mean fewer virus replications in total and fewer chances of a viable mutation breaking out and beginning round 3 of this circus.
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: …The other thing is just that my particular, blue-collar town is kind of a troublesome COVID hotspot, and has been for all of the past year. My mother-in-law and her friends have been giving out as many shots as they can for a while now but there are populations here that have been hard to reach. We just got back down to “Yellow” status from “Red” under the state’s criteria, and I’m not looking forward to any more surges making us Red yet again. At least my kid finally was able to get the Pfizer.
Another Scott
@Soprano2: There are thousands of people who work on the Hill, and tens of thousands in the area. Many people who work there have various disabilities and co-morbidities (e.g. the cleaning staff, food service people, etc.) and may have issues why they cannot get vaccinated. The GQP has a history of getting infected and spreading the virus around.
It’s not about the few hundred people who work in the well. It’s about the thousands who don’t have a choice. And it’s about moving the press from asking Nancy about it to asking the COVID-deniers about it.
I assume that once the CDC gives final approval for the vaccines there may be some additional requirements for the House, offices, etc. But that may be months away.
Also, the issue always is “community spread”. NZ can have everyone living Before Times lives again because there’s no spread in the country even though it is a disaster in other countries. If there is no community spread in DC, MD, NoVA, then one can argue that masks are no longer needed even if it’s still a huge problem in west TX. (Though one might want to require testing of reps from there who return to DC…)
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Soprano2:
Not to pick on you, but one needs to be careful.
The mRNA (and J&J) vaccines are extraordinarily effective at preventing hospitalization and death. The “95%” numbers are a reflection of that, but remember that: 1) the trials did not check for asymptomatic infection; 2) no vaccine is 100% effective; 3) no test is 100% accurate; and 4) as expected people have caught COVID-19 and shown symptoms after being fully vaccinated.
repost – STATNews.
Are such people infectious to others? We don’t know, but given that most COVID infections seem to be spread by asymptomatic people, there’s no reason to think that it can’t happen.
Our best protection isn’t just vaccination. Or just “herd immunity”. No, our best protection is stopping community spread. That’s how OZ, and NZ, and Vietnam and all the rest controlled the virus. And it’s boring standard proven public health measures like wearing masks that stops community spread.
A big problem with decreeing that everything will be back to normal if we hit, say 70% vaccinated is – “Why 70%? Why not 65%? Does that include everyone, or just people 12 and up? What about people who already had COVID? What about people who had it but weren’t hospitalized? What about international travel? My county is at 69% but the county next door is at 71?
I work there. Why do I have to wear a mask at home but not there? What about…??” It never ends. The message gets muddled and people argue about numbers and exceptions and all the rest rather than just simply doing the wear a mask and do the public health stuff until the experts say otherwise.
Larry Brilliant said last year that if 70% of people wore masks 70% of the time we would quickly break the back of the pandemic. But, no… [sigh]
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Patrianakos
@Soprano2: Please do not forget: Here in Florida, it is against the law for a business owner to require vaccination, but permissible to require masks.
So, I assume everybody is unvaccinated, and. . .
Jinchi
@Soprano2:
But that is the CDC guidance, isn’t it? If everyone in a group of people is vaccinated, it’s safe for the group to go without masks.
The key words in the guidance are “fully vaccinated” and “except where required”. If 58% of the members of the House are fully vaccinated, then nearly half of them are not. Pelosi is passing rules for the entire House and staff and the people who come directly in contact with them.The new CDC guidance does not apply to them.
Pelosi doesn’t want an exemption for vaccinated members only, because:
Pelosi isn’t flouting CDC guidance or the science. She’s just reading the actual wording.
jnfr
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I hope it turns out to be nothing serious.