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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Easy Layup Open Thread: Good News – President Biden Is Serious About His Job

Easy Layup Open Thread: Good News – President Biden Is Serious About His Job

by Anne Laurie|  May 15, 20216:54 pm| 170 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, President Biden, Media Mudlarks, Our Failed Media Experiment

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breaking news from the New York Times: Joe Biden is interested in policy and does his homework.https://t.co/A9XZL7r2sa

— James Palmer (@BeijingPalmer) May 15, 2021

The Slightly-Soiled-Grey Lady is shocked, shocked:

… Quick decision-making is not Mr. Biden’s style. His reputation as a plain-speaking politician hides a more complicated truth. Before making up his mind, the president demands hours of detail-laden debate from scores of policy experts, taking everyone around him on what some in the West Wing refer to as his Socratic “journey” before arriving at a conclusion.

Those trips are often difficult for his advisers, who are peppered with sometimes obscure questions. Avoiding Mr. Biden’s ire during one of his decision-making seminars means not only going beyond the vague talking points that he will reject, but also steering clear of responses laced with acronyms or too much policy minutiae, which will prompt an outburst of frustration, often laced with profanity…

Mr. Biden is gripped by a sense of urgency that leaves him prone to flares of impatience, according to numerous people who regularly interact with him. The president has said he expects to run for a second term, but aides say he understands the effect on his ability to advance his agenda if Republicans regain power in Congress next year.

He never erupts into fits of rage the way President Donald J. Trump did. And the current president rarely exhibits the smoldering anger or sense of deep disappointment that advisers to Mr. Obama became familiar with.

But several people familiar with the president’s decision-making style said Mr. Biden was quick to cut off conversations. Three people who work closely with him said he even occasionally hangs up the phone on someone who he thinks is wasting his time. Most described Mr. Biden as having little patience for advisers who cannot field his many questions…

We thought we could spook that Obama guy. And working with TFG was so *fun*! But Joe just doesn’t appreciate how very, very significant we Media Mudlarks are…

What I argued 25 years ago (!) in Breaking the News:

Combo, for much of the media, of:

1) Theater-critic outlook (it’s all a performance);

2) Ever-present fear of being called “liberal-biased” [which of course will happen in any case].

— James Fallows (@JamesFallows) May 15, 2021

Also, much of our Very Serious Media is hopelessly addicted to idiot clickbait:

This is as outrageous as Nancy Pelosi getting that special ice cream machine for her grandchildren! https://t.co/0Gb5HRe1hn

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) May 15, 2021

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Reader Interactions

170Comments

  1. 1.

    dexwood

    May 15, 2021 at 6:59 pm

    Thanks, AL. Hello, I must be going.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:02 pm

    he even occasionally hangs up the phone on someone who he thinks is wasting his time

    His auto warranty was about to expire. I was trying to help him.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:04 pm

    Journalists claimed they found easily found @JoeBiden‘s “secret” Venmo account after only a brief search

    I wonder what search term they used.

  4. 4.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:09 pm

    President Biden Is Serious About His Job

    So the Kremlin’s orange mobster shitstain wasn’t serious about the job? Because we haven’t had any 3AM Twitter tantrums from Biden – yet.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:09 pm

    Venmo, which is owned by PayPal, enables simple payments between contacts. Transactions are public by default. They can be made private but contact lists remain visible. Biden’s payments were private. BuzzFeed did not publish names of his contacts.

    Why is it public by default????

  6. 6.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 15, 2021 at 7:11 pm

    Journalists claimed they found easily found @JoeBiden
    ‘s “secret” Venmo account after only a brief search.

    Buzzfeed reported it existed and he used it to send money to his grandchildren.

    I am shocked to find Biden is a normal adult male his age, dots on his grandkids and not some perpetual child like Donny.

  7. 7.

    Xantar

    May 15, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    @Baud: because Venmo originally thought they were going to be a social network. It was all the rage at the time.

  8. 8.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    @Baud: LOL!  Well done.

  9. 9.

    Catherine D.

    May 15, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    Open thread – thanks Dolly, I got my hair cut today. Die, ponytail, die!

  10. 10.

    moonbat

    May 15, 2021 at 7:14 pm

    Wait, I was assured by our media betters that Biden was a doddering oldster who had all his policy spoon fed to him by his VP and other “nefarious” characters. You mean, he’s actually doing the job he was elected to do???

    Cool.

  11. 11.

    Feathers

    May 15, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    @Baud:   Venmo sucks.

    Also, built as social media platform, with money transfer as what would make it unique. When it became all anyone used it for, they were left with an architecture that did not match their user’s needs. They have not spent the money to create Venmo 2.0.

  12. 12.

    MattF

    May 15, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    I read the article and thought it was mostly good news about Joe. I agree that it tilted a bit negative. But the message I got is that Biden tries to get it right and pushes his staff harder than you might expect. That’s better than someone who watches TV all day and shitposts between cheeseburgers.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    @Xantar:

    @Feathers:

    Thanks.  Never used it and didn’t know the history.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I can’t believe he hasn’t hired his grandkids given all the foreign affairs issues going on right now.

  15. 15.

    Mike in NC

    May 15, 2021 at 7:20 pm

    Will the media ever recover from spending four years following an impulsive, vindictive moron?

  16. 16.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:24 pm

    @Mike in NC: But enough about W.

  17. 17.

    Van Buren

    May 15, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    Let’s say you used an attorney in the past-like a decade ago. He did a perfectly acceptable job.You have need of an attorney for a similar  situation.

    In the last few years, however,said attorney has made it clear in multiple ways that he is all in on Trump.

    Do you find a new attorney?

  18. 18.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    @Catherine D.:

    ?

  19. 19.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    @Van Buren:

    I would.

  20. 20.

    Spanky

    May 15, 2021 at 7:26 pm

    @Mike in NC: Eight Ball says “fuck no”.

  21. 21.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:29 pm

    @Van Buren:

    @Baud: I would too.

  22. 22.

    Barbara

    May 15, 2021 at 7:30 pm

    He gives money to his grandkids is like learning he has cereal for breakfast. Umm, okay.

  23. 23.

    Pete Downunder

    May 15, 2021 at 7:31 pm

    g@Van Buren: Yes. Anyone who is all in on Trump has shown they lack judgment and good judgment is, in part, what you pay a lawyer for.

  24. 24.

    Barbara

    May 15, 2021 at 7:33 pm

    @Van Buren:I would seek referrals to someone else, and see what shakes out.

  25. 25.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:34 pm

    @Catherine D.:

    End of an era

  26. 26.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:34 pm

    @Van Buren:

    Is your attorney Lin Wood or Sidney Powell?

  27. 27.

    Bluegirlfromwyo

    May 15, 2021 at 7:34 pm

    @Barbara: But how do we know his grandkids will ever work if he gives  them money? I just have questions. /s

  28. 28.

    John Revolta

    May 15, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    @Van Buren: ​
    Yes. And if the occasion should arise, tell him why. “Nothing personal but……..”

  29. 29.

    Just One More Canuck

    May 15, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    @Baud: or Steve in the ATL?

  30. 30.

    Gloomyjim

    May 15, 2021 at 7:37 pm

    @Van Buren:

    IANAL but from my thinking it would entirely depend on who the judge was on a per case basis.

    #MostDefNotLegalAdvice

     

    Edit, typo corrected

  31. 31.

    Rob

    May 15, 2021 at 7:38 pm

    @Van Buren: Yes. Find a new attorney.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:38 pm

    @Just One More Canuck:

    Then the question is easy — hell yes find someone else.

  33. 33.

    dmsilev

    May 15, 2021 at 7:38 pm

    @Barbara: According to that article, we at least know Biden’s cereal preferences from his time as veep:

    In the vice president’s residence, the staff was instructed to keep the kitchen stocked with vanilla chocolate chip Haagen-Dazs ice cream, Special K cereal, one bunch of red grapes, sliced cheese, six eggs, sliced bread, one tomato from the garden, and at least two apples on hand at all times, according to a preference sheet they kept at the home. Mr. Biden’s drink of choice: Orange Gatorade.

    The important news of the day.

  34. 34.

    Parfigliano

    May 15, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    @Van Buren: I find a new attorney and tell the old one why I did it.

  35. 35.

    Steve in the ATL

    May 15, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    @Just One More Canuck: hey now—I was only 75% in for trump!

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 7:42 pm

    @Van Buren: Yes.  Absolutely.

  37. 37.

    Wag

    May 15, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    @Van Buren:   Absolutely

  38. 38.

    BlueNC

    May 15, 2021 at 7:44 pm

    @Van Buren: How much will his prior knowledge help you? If his previous work for you matters, then consider the cost of switching. If you just need an attorney generally competent in a not-too-specialized area, then I’d look for another option.

  39. 39.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 7:45 pm

    I’m not sure BJ has ever agreed so completely on the answer to a question. In this case, the question from Van Buren.  The answers are yes, hell yes, and absolutely!

  40. 40.

    Catherine D.

    May 15, 2021 at 7:46 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Not quite that long, but good riddance! I gave my stylist a folded wad of bills to cover the missing haircuts, and she called out as I was leaving that I had overpaid. Nope, I could arrange my work to avoid infection, but she couldn’t.

  41. 41.

    artem1s

    May 15, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    @Van Buren:

    Do you find a new attorney?

    lots of attorneys out there who could use the business.  I personally wouldn’t trust the legal advise of someone who thought TFG was on firm legal ground at anytime during the last 5 years.

  42. 42.

    Nelle

    May 15, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    Did I read it right?  Mr. Biden.  President Donald J Trump.  Mr. Obama.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    @Catherine D.:

    Not quite that long

    Hehehe

  44. 44.

    Just One More Canuck

    May 15, 2021 at 7:49 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: my apologies

  45. 45.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 7:50 pm

    @artem1s:

    I personally wouldn’t trust the legal advise of someone who thought TFG was on firm legal ground at anytime during the last 5 years. 

    Or on firm mental ground for the last 50 years.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:51 pm

    @Nelle:

    My guess is that Biden and Obama were referred to as President earlier in the article.  That might be the first time the article referred to Trump.

  47. 47.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 7:51 pm

    @Nelle: Just the idea of that make smoke come out of my ears.  Is that really what they did?  So maddening.

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    May 15, 2021 at 7:52 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Journalists claimed they found easily found @JoeBiden‘s “secret” Venmo account after only a brief search.

    In their mind, this must be the equivalent to finding Hillary Clinton’s email servers.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 7:53 pm

    @Baud: It makes me crazy when they refer to Mr. Biden or Mr. Obama.   It feels so dismissive!

  50. 50.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 7:54 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    It’s their style, I think.  Saves ink.

  51. 51.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    May 15, 2021 at 7:56 pm

    Relevant from our own DougJ:

    How Biden can salvage what’s left of his presidency.

    — New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) May 15, 2021

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    May 15, 2021 at 7:58 pm

    @Van Buren:

    In the last few years, however,said attorney has made it clear in multiple ways that he is all in on Trump.  Do you find a new attorney?

    Is this a trick question?

    I immediately want to say, “Oh hell, yeah, new attorney.”

    But did the guy do a good job for a reasonable fee and were you happy with the results?  How easy would it be to find someone else who could do as good a job?

  53. 53.

    Raven

    May 15, 2021 at 7:58 pm

    fyi

    Federal legislation limiting the federal government’s ability to seize people’s assets appears headed for law, thanks in part to an Athens gun dealer.

    The bill would bar the Internal Revenue Service and other agencies from seizing assets without some reason to believe there was criminal wrongdoing beyond simply a pattern of deposits that seemed structured to avoid the $10,000 limit that triggers reports under the avoid a Bank Secrecy Act.

    In 2013, the IRS seized about $940,000 from Andrew Clyde, owner of the Atlanta Highway gun shop Clyde Armory. Clyde had regularly made cash deposits of just under $10,000 as he built up the balance. Clyde’s account was one of hundreds seized by the IRS for so-called “structuring.”

    Investigators ultimately found no criminal wrongdoing, a federal 2017 audit showed. But under the law, the government was still able to keep the money.

  54. 54.

    Danielx

    May 15, 2021 at 7:58 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I told him I was with (the infamous) Microsoft Tech Support. Still can’t figure out why he hung up.

  55. 55.

    Spanky

    May 15, 2021 at 7:59 pm

    @WaterGirl: To be fair, they also referred to “Mr. Hitler” back in the 30’s.

    Seriously, they’re probably following their style guide per Baud’s comment above.

  56. 56.

    feebog

    May 15, 2021 at 7:59 pm

    @Baud:

    Why is it public by default????

    So morons like Joel Rosenberg and Matt Gaetz can leave a digital trail detailing their crimes.

  57. 57.

    lowtechcyclist

    May 15, 2021 at 8:00 pm

    Avoiding Mr. Biden’s ire during one of his decision-making seminars means not only going beyond the vague talking points that he will reject, but also steering clear of responses laced with acronyms or too much policy minutiae

    Which is exactly what good staffers do: (a) know their shit, and (b) figure out how to explain it clearly and succinctly to their boss. Anyone who can’t do both shouldn’t be in a job involving even occasional meetings with the President.

    But several people familiar with the president’s decision-making style said Mr. Biden was quick to cut off conversations. Three people who work closely with him said he even occasionally hangs up the phone on someone who he thinks is wasting his time.

    Well yeah. There’s a metric ton of shit on the President’s desk these days, and his time is a precious commodity. I’m damned glad he hangs up on timewasters. Good on him.

  58. 58.

    debbie

    May 15, 2021 at 8:01 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Grandkids will bleed you dry every time!

  59. 59.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 15, 2021 at 8:01 pm

    Isn’t there a much simpler explanation, NYT politics desk and assorted media hacks are Republicans that’s why much of their coverage skews in their favor. Most of the big names are the prime Republican demographic, rich, white, older and male.

  60. 60.

    debbie

    May 15, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    @Catherine D.:

    I too got a haircut today. Still a bit skittish about things, so I washed it myself and all she had to do was cut in. In and out in 10 minutes!

  61. 61.

    debbie

    May 15, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    That’s their style guide at work.

  62. 62.

    e julius drivingstorm

    May 15, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    @Van Buren:

    If the appropriate judges in your area are all republicans you’re stuck. Otherwise report him to the ABA. Heck, report him anyway.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 8:06 pm

    @debbie:

    They’re the worst.

  64. 64.

    rikyrah

    May 15, 2021 at 8:07 pm

    Joe Biden has been a professional politician for over 40 years. He has surrounded himself with professionals. He is President of the United States. He SHOULD expect those that work for him to know their shyt and not waste his time .

     

    These aren’t the third-rate, scraping the bottom of the barrel that proliferated the last Administration. That the NYT would publish this thinking what? Folks would think less of 46?

     

    Phuck Outta Here??

  65. 65.

    Skepticat

    May 15, 2021 at 8:07 pm

    @Van Buren: One look at the antics of the “lawyers” surrounding the malignant mango should answer that question. Do you really want to associate with that ilk, much less have them control important parts of your life?

  66. 66.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 15, 2021 at 8:08 pm

    @Baud: ​
      Amtrak

  67. 67.

    Fair Economist

    May 15, 2021 at 8:08 pm

    The Examiner put quite an anti-Biden spin on the Venmo article. The Buzzfeed article was criticizing Venmo for making it impossible to make a secure account.

  68. 68.

    Fair Economist

    May 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    @rikyrah: Agreed. President Biden is making huge numbers of difficult, critical decisions that almost always affect millions of people. It’s critical he do it right, and he should have the highest quality advice and information. It’s good that he demands it and doesn’t allow people to waste his precious time.

  69. 69.

    Skepticat

    May 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    @Baud: It’s their style, I think.

    Interestingly, Associated Press style is to not use honorifics, including “President,” after the first use of the full name. I was surprised to see the (rude and useless) “Mr.,” but I’m not a big fan of the NYT in any case.

  70. 70.

    rikyrah

    May 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    @Catherine D.:

    ????

  71. 71.

    The Dangerman

    May 15, 2021 at 8:12 pm

    Slang for an easy layup is called a bunny. No, not that kind of bunny, Donald.

    Why a bunny? Who knows? Likely same as why an assist is called a dime.  Completely random.

  72. 72.

    rikyrah

    May 15, 2021 at 8:12 pm

    @Nelle:

    ??????

  73. 73.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 15, 2021 at 8:13 pm

    Times is sitting on a massive exposé — apparently Biden always takes up TWO parking spaces

  74. 74.

    Brachiator

    May 15, 2021 at 8:14 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Isn’t there a much simpler explanation, NYT politics desk and assorted media hacks are Republicans that’s why much of their coverage skews in their favor.

    The NYT is establishment. But I don’t know that the family that owns the Times are registered Republicans.

    NYT Executive editor Dean Baquet is not white. Don’t know if he is Republican. Don’t know about other editors.

    There is a strange political culture at the NY Times. I am not sure why they kiss up to the GOP so much. Some writers and editors I knew from the 70s tended to be liberal.

    ETA: I knew a Los Angeles Times reporter whose parents were so left wing that they named her Ninel. Lenin backwards. She was a chip off the old commie block.

  75. 75.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    @Baud:

    Were you Christy, a Medicare consultant on a recorded line? He loves that shit.

  76. 76.

    debbie

    May 15, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    @rikyrah:

    No wonder, what with all those food demands!!! //

  77. 77.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 8:16 pm

    @moonbat:

    They subtly try to make him look senile by stressing how long it takes for him to make up his mind.

  78. 78.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 8:17 pm

    @Van Buren:

    Yes.

    Take it from me. I stuck with my dentist too long.

    My hairdresser is okay because I don’t believe she voted for Trump. She just didn’t vote for Hillary.

  79. 79.

    Steeplejack

    May 15, 2021 at 8:18 pm

    @Nelle:
    Calm yourself. Biden and Obama both got a “President” on first reference (not in the clip), as did Trump (in the clip). After that it’s “Mr. [Surname].” House style at the Times.​

    @Baud:

    Yes, this.

  80. 80.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 8:19 pm

    @Catherine D.:

    I sent mine checks throughout the pandemic. I’m still paying her twice as much as she’s asking.

  81. 81.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 8:20 pm

    @Baud:

    It must be. They use the title once, then switch to “Mr.”

  82. 82.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 15, 2021 at 8:21 pm

    @Nelle: That’s probably just the NYTs'(which is garbage) style book, the first time they refer to someone they use the title, after that they’ll use Mr. or Ms..

  83. 83.

    geg6

    May 15, 2021 at 8:21 pm

    @Van Buren:

    Absofuckinglutely.  I will never voluntarily pay or socialize with anyone who is a TFG voter ever again.  If I don’t know, fine.  But if I do, fuck that asshole.  Not a penny from me.  There are plenty of all types of professionals and trades people out there who aren’t disgusting MAGATs.

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    May 15, 2021 at 8:25 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    It’s their house style for everybody! [Title] [Full name] on first reference, then [Mr. | Ms.] [Surname] in the rest of the story.

    This particular story has just “President Biden” on first reference, but that’s because it’s a “soft” analysis piece, not a straight news story.

  85. 85.

    Amir Khalid

    May 15, 2021 at 8:29 pm

    @Brachiator:

    That Ven Buren now doubts his TFGista lawyer’s judgment is by itself good enough reason to seek a new lawyer. I think there are ways to research a lawyer’s competence on the intertubes.

  86. 86.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 8:30 pm

    @Spanky: It’s a bad style guide, then!

  87. 87.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 8:32 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: Hell, John Cole cuts me off If I’m taking too long to get the point when we talk on the phone: “cut to the chase”.

    Geez, have the people complaining about this every had a real job?

    Rule #1: Don’t waste your boss’s time.

    edit: Rule #1 is also: Don’t make your boss look bad.

  88. 88.

    WaterGirl

    May 15, 2021 at 8:34 pm

    @Steeplejack: I don’t care if it’s their style; I don’t have to like it.  It feels disrespectful.

  89. 89.

    moops

    May 15, 2021 at 8:35 pm

    There is loyal GOP voter, and then there is All-In-For-Trump.   If someone you rarely interact with is clearly a Trumper-Humper then that person is not idly political, they now participate in their own brainwashing.

     

    Several of my neighbors vote R, but they have the decency to not say a word about Trump and actively avoid political topics now.    My middle sister and her husband still think we can talk casually about Trump. They are wrong and we don’t speak anymore.

  90. 90.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 15, 2021 at 8:36 pm

    Nuke the Vichy Times from orbit.

    It’s the only way to be sure.

  91. 91.

    Bill Arnold

    May 15, 2021 at 8:37 pm

    @Nelle:

    Did I read it right? Mr. Biden. President Donald J Trump. Mr. Obama.

    The first use in the article of each is “President” and the subsequent usages are Mr (or just the surname). Trump is called “Mr. Trump” a couple of times.

    ETA except for the headline, which uses “Mr. Biden” and “Joe”.  (The writers don’t or sometimes don’t control the headlines.)

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    May 15, 2021 at 8:38 pm

    In other news, the Chinese Martian lander has touched down:

    The robot officially landed shortly after 07:00 on Saturday, Beijing time (Friday 23:00 GMT), according to state media.

    It took 17 minutes to unfold its solar panels and send a signal back to Earth.

    Zhurong, which means God of Fire, was carried to Mars on the Tianwen-1 orbiter, which arrived above the planet in February.

    Trump probably would have sent Space Force to shoot it down and claimed Mars as his personal real estate.

    As it is, I expect a fair amount of paranoia from Fox News and other right wing sites crying about how dangerous it is to let China make technological advancements.

     

  93. 93.

    Raven

    May 15, 2021 at 8:38 pm

    The emergency vet says the Bohdi’s leg is ok. Let’s hear it for pet insurance!

  94. 94.

    Ksmiami

    May 15, 2021 at 8:39 pm

    @Van Buren: yes – run far away and find another lawyer

  95. 95.

    Mary G

    May 15, 2021 at 8:41 pm

    @Nelle:

    @Baud:

    It appears to me that the FTFNYT’s extremely weird style guide dictates that they use “President” the first time and Mr. Whoever subsequently. TFG is mentioned once farther down as “Mr.”

    I think doing it in the headline is problematic, though.

  96. 96.

    Mary G

    May 15, 2021 at 8:42 pm

    @Raven: Yay Bohdi! I still think of him as the bouncy puppy cavorting around Raven, who is giving you the stink-eye.

  97. 97.

    TS (the original)

    May 15, 2021 at 8:43 pm

    @Baud:

    It’s their style, I think.  Saves ink.

    I am fairly sure this “style” came in during the term of President Obama (but of course it did). Suddenly they started calling him Mr Obama & when queried said it was a style change to only use the title on the first mention.  I’ll have to go back & check, but the first time I noticed it was when Nate started using it when his 538 moved to the NYT

  98. 98.

    Feathers

    May 15, 2021 at 8:47 pm

    @Mary G: Hence the wondrous use of Mr. Loaf for subsequent mentions in an article about the singer Meat Loaf.

  99. 99.

    Baud

    May 15, 2021 at 8:49 pm

    @Feathers:

    He uses the Asian practice of putting the family name first, so it should have been Mr. Meat.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    May 15, 2021 at 8:52 pm

    @TS (the original):

    It’s their style, I think.  Saves ink.

    I am fairly sure this “style” came in during the term of President Obama (but of course it did).

    No, pretty sure that they have been doing this for some time.

  101. 101.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 15, 2021 at 8:54 pm

    Paul Krugman @paulkrugman May 14
     Biden likes to make decisions after listening to experts make their case, instead of reacting to something he liked on Fox News. The horror, the horror! 1/

    He also gets annoyed at people who use jargon, especially obscure acronyms. YMMV, but I’m ROTFLMAO 2/

  102. 102.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 15, 2021 at 8:55 pm

    @Brachiator: ​
     Agreed; after all, as noted upthread, the NYT referred to a certain German dictator as “Mr. Hitler”.

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    May 15, 2021 at 8:56 pm

    @Van Buren:

    Absolutely find another.

    Faster than the speed of light.

    No need to support someone that deranged.

  104. 104.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 15, 2021 at 8:56 pm

    @Raven: YAY Bohdi!  Get well soon, get back to chasing sports cars!

  105. 105.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 8:57 pm

    @TS (the original):

    I really don’t think that’s right. They’ve done this forever.

  106. 106.

    The Moar You Know

    May 15, 2021 at 9:06 pm

    Do you find a new attorney


    @Van Buren
    : hell yes.  For starters, it shows your attorney’s a moron.

    More seriously, I’m not giving those people my money.  Not one dime.  They’ll send it to Trump.  It HURT getting rid of my really good, really cheap plumber, but he was 100% on the Trump train and he had to go.   I’ve had contractors show up with Trump 2024 stickers on their trucks and I just tell them to turn around and leave.  And I tell them why.  And they get pissed, but fuck it, I don’t make a goddamn dramatic production out of my politics and they’re going to learn the hard way that they shouldn’t either.

    Not one fucking dime to those people.  At a minimum, if they’re still on board, they don’t believe in America or democracy.   They are fascists.

    Don’t give money to fascists.

  107. 107.

    Nelle

    May 15, 2021 at 9:07 pm

    @Bill Arnold: ah, I just saw the excerpt.  Thanks.

  108. 108.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    May 15, 2021 at 9:08 pm

    Washington Examiner via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Journalists claimed they found easily found @JoeBiden’s “secret” Venmo account after only a brief search.
    Buzzfeed reported it existed and he used it to send money to his grandchildren.

    Thanks, Washington Examiner. Now tell us how Matt Gaetz and Joel Greenberg use their Venmo accounts.​

  109. 109.

    Doug R

    May 15, 2021 at 9:10 pm

    @Van Buren:

     

    In the last few years, however,said attorney has made it clear in multiple ways that he is all in on Trump.

    Do you find a new attorney?

    YES

  110. 110.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 15, 2021 at 9:13 pm

    @Brachiator: If I am recalling correctly, this is the first successful landing on Mars from any country other than the United States. There have been multiple attempts by the Soviet Union and the ESA, all failures. One of the earliest landers from the USSR actually landed intact, started transmitting and immediately failed–maybe because a huge global dust storm was going on.

  111. 111.

    Amir Khalid

    May 15, 2021 at 9:14 pm

    @Feathers:
    Which is silly, because Loaf isn’t a surname. If The NYT wants to mister him, it should call him either Mr Meat Loaf or, using his real surname, Mr Aday.

  112. 112.

    TS (the original)

    May 15, 2021 at 9:15 pm

    @Brachiator:

    No, pretty sure that they have been doing this for some time.

    Checking  early NYT (which I don’t find so easy without a subscription) – they still used the title every time in 2001 but it was gone by 2007 – so I was out by one President.  Guess I never noticed the change with Bush.

  113. 113.

    The Dangerman

    May 15, 2021 at 9:15 pm

    @Van Buren:

    No, keep him.

    PSYCH. Ditch the asshole and make sure he knows why.

  114. 114.

    Steeplejack

    May 15, 2021 at 9:16 pm

    @TS (the original):

    Random 1973 story from the Times after 10 seconds on the Google:

    Despite the fact that the nation was frustrated and angry about the war in Vietnam, troubled by racial strife, and caught up in inflation, most Americans had more or less assumed that Mr. Johnson, the highly political and mightily proud 36th President of the United States, would run for re‐election in 1968.

    It has been their style basically forever. AP style, by contrast, is title and full name on first reference, then just the surname after that. The horror!

    The level of Times derangement syndrome on this site is astounding.

  115. 115.

    Amir Khalid

    May 15, 2021 at 9:20 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    One of the earliest landers from the USSR actually landed intact, started transmitting and immediately failed–maybe because a huge global dust storm was going on.

    I’m pretty sure it was a Martian sneaking up from behind with wire cutters.

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    May 15, 2021 at 9:20 pm

    @WaterGirl: Rule #2- If you find yourself in conflict with your boss, you should look at both sides: The boss’s side. And the outside.

  117. 117.

    debbie

    May 15, 2021 at 9:21 pm

    @Feathers: 

    I remember that!

  118. 118.

    JoyceH

    May 15, 2021 at 9:21 pm

    Sigh. Guys, guys, guys. It has always, always, always, AL. WAYS. been considered perfectly correct and not at all disrespectful to refer to the President as Mister Last Name. Can we NOT do this? Can we NOT act like Trumpies and get our bustles in a bunch because a newspaper is disrespecting OUR President by not giving him a sufficiently respectful honorific? It. Is. Correct usage. It has ALWAYS been correct usage. There are plenty of other things to take offense at. Let’s not take offense where none is offered.

  119. 119.

    brantl

    May 15, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    @Van Buren: Yes, you do; don’t subsidize crazy/stupid and he’s either/both.

  120. 120.

    The Moar You Know

    May 15, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    The emergency vet says the Bohdi’s leg is ok. Let’s hear it for pet insurance!

    @Raven: Good.  Nothing worse than when your dog gets hurt.  Wish we’d done the insurance with our Golden.  He’s been an expensive little fucker.  Worth every cent, though.  I love our little (90 pound) guy like nothing else ever.

  121. 121.

    JoyceH

    May 15, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    BTW, if we’re wanting to be disrespectful, I saw a delicious way to refer to MT Greene – “Empty Greene”. Or Empty Gee. Marvelous.

  122. 122.

    zhena gogolia

    May 15, 2021 at 9:25 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    That said, the framing of this Biden story is atrocious.

  123. 123.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    May 15, 2021 at 9:28 pm

    @Van Buren:

    Let’s say you used an attorney in the past – like a decade ago. … In the last few years, however,said attorney has made it clear in multiple ways that he is all in on Trump.

    Do you find a new attorney?

    Only if you require rational decision-making from your legal advisors.

  124. 124.

    Manxome Bromide

    May 15, 2021 at 9:29 pm

    @WaterGirl: “Is Lily a good girl?”

  125. 125.

    Geminid

    May 15, 2021 at 9:29 pm

    @JoyceH: Or you could call her Simple Greene, like the cleaning agent.

  126. 126.

    frosty

    May 15, 2021 at 9:29 pm

    @rikyrah: ​
     
    Off topic, but I saw that Peanut got her first jab. Congratulations! I expect you’ll be incredibly relieved when both are done.

  127. 127.

    TS (the original)

    May 15, 2021 at 9:31 pm

    @JoyceH:

    I find it just another reason to take offense at the NYT – everything they do & say about dem presidents tends to be offensive.

    Presidents are head of state – for that reason alone they should be given their title. I don’t see many articles talking about  QE II as Mrs Windsor. Westminster systems don’t refer to their Prime Ministers via title but they do give a title to their heads of state.

  128. 128.

    JoyceH

    May 15, 2021 at 9:35 pm

    @TS (the original):  John Adams agreed with you, he thought Presidents should be referred to as His Excellency and addressed as Your Excellency. But he lost that argument over 200 years ago. Presidents have literally been Mister President and Mister Last Name since then. So when it now becomes disrespectful, that seems to me to indicate someone determined to take offense.

  129. 129.

    JoyceH

    May 15, 2021 at 9:37 pm

    @Geminid: ​
     

    But the great thing about Empty Greene is that it’s the same as MT Greene, just putting emPHAsis on a different SylLAble.

  130. 130.

    The Lodger

    May 15, 2021 at 9:40 pm

    @TS (the original): The Times has used Mr. and Mrs./Miss/Ms. at least since the 70s, when I first started to pay attention to that sort of thing.

  131. 131.

    Geminid

    May 15, 2021 at 9:41 pm

    @JoyceH: Ah. Now I see it.

  132. 132.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 15, 2021 at 9:43 pm

    @Steeplejack:  Fuck LBJ?

  133. 133.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    May 15, 2021 at 9:45 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Fuck Mr. LBJ!

  134. 134.

    Citizen Alan

    May 15, 2021 at 9:50 pm

    @Van Buren: I do not tolerate anyone in my life who supported Donald Trump.

  135. 135.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 15, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    @Steeplejack (phone): Understood.

  136. 136.

    J R in WV

    May 15, 2021 at 9:56 pm

    I’m pretty sure the NY Times style book has been title on first use, Mr last name in the rest of the piece for a very long time. Mr Hitler comes to mind, along with Mr Churchill and Mr Stalin in that time period.

    So perhaps around 85 years that I recall… Mr Hitler came into office in 1933, right?

    Raven, glad Bohdi Puppy appears to be OK, I would take him to your regular Vet Doc when you get home, though. Could be that the ER wasn’t going to do much if it wasn’t “life threatening” … Not life threatening isn’t the same as won’t need treatment going forward.

  137. 137.

    Geeno

    May 15, 2021 at 9:59 pm

    @Geminid: Or Soylent Greene – no that would imply she’s human…

  138. 138.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    May 15, 2021 at 10:04 pm

    @Raven:

    I’m glad for the good news about your pup (they’re always ‘kids’ to me) and yes on the insurance!

    The Scottish Fold in the sack that’s a part of the B calendar May ‘centerfold’ section turns 7 today, so he’s being spoiled rotten.

    IWO, the usual… :)

  139. 139.

    Raven

    May 15, 2021 at 10:09 pm

    @The Moar You Know: This is a pressure wound, I thought so but didn’t want to chance it being something more. I tried to clean it but realized it needed more than I could do.

  140. 140.

    Raven

    May 15, 2021 at 10:12 pm

    @J R in WV: we actually had to go back because it wasn’t life threatening. The dude was brief but thorough and we’ll be keeping close watch till we go home next Thursday.

  141. 141.

    J R in WV

    May 15, 2021 at 10:12 pm

    Regarding your lawyer:

    Dump that MFer immediately. He’s incompetent because he doesn’t think, doesn’t know any better, doesn’t… Dump him, tell him why, run away, run away.

    I need to find a family law lawyer, wills, trusts, power of attorney, etc. Back in the day we never expected to have anything to leave anyone, now we may. Do NOT want RWNJ brother to get a cent! Need a good lawyer to avoid that… same for wife’s sisters, RWNJs. At least I still speak to my brother, wife hasn’t communicated with her sisters in a long time now…

  142. 142.

    Citizen Alan

    May 15, 2021 at 10:14 pm

    @Brachiator:

    NYT Executive editor Dean Baquet is not white.

    My understanding is that he prefers to identify as Creole rather than black. Take that however you want to. Regardless, he would not be the first black person who chose to earn a place for themselves among elite society by acting as a tireless advocate for white supremacy. There’s a reason I’ve referred to Baquet as “the Clarence Thomas of American journalism.”

  143. 143.

    ChiJD Doug

    May 15, 2021 at 10:19 pm

    @Catherine D.: or dye?

  144. 144.

    J R in WV

    May 15, 2021 at 10:27 pm

    @Raven:
    I know you keep a close eye, you treat your dogs like your kids, just like we do. Wife once left with one of our dogs for Columbus Ohio to get Clyde to a Vet hospital up there with access to a MRI scanner. They shared one with a Children’s hospital, two passes into the imaging center, one for kids one for fuzzy kids.

    Clyde lost the use of his hind legs suddenly, local vet couldn’t do much, Columbus Vet Hospital found adhesions within his spinal cord, brilliant neurosurgeon operated, they threw him out a couple of days later because he was SO  NOISY.

    I walked him for  a few weeks with a belly band holding his hind quarters up so his feet barely touched the ground. Suddenly his back feet were moving a little bit. He lasted several years after that.

    Was the smartest dog we even had ever. Had a relationship with the squirrels, the deer, everything on the farm. Would come to get me if something needed attention, injured buck, come here JR, look at this.

    Still miss him.

    I know you will take care of your pupper, just wanted to be supportive. Best wishes for all~!!~​

  145. 145.

    Ruckus

    May 15, 2021 at 10:30 pm

    @Geminid:

    Simple Green is good stuff, Simple Greene not in the least.

  146. 146.

    Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)

    May 15, 2021 at 10:34 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Every plantation had at least one.

  147. 147.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 10:36 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Simple Green is good stuff, 

    Yes. And Green River is delicious.

    But don’t mix up the two.

  148. 148.

    Another Scott

    May 15, 2021 at 10:36 pm

    UPDATE on “The Tiger”:

    We are happy to report that the missing tiger seen in a Houston neighborhood last week has been found and appears to be unharmed.

    The ? has safely arrived @BARC_Houston where a media briefing will be held about 9 p.m. at BARC at 2700 Evella. #hounews pic.twitter.com/yNLF0bPsbb

    — Houston Police (@houstonpolice) May 16, 2021

    Um, it took 6 days to find it…!!!

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  149. 149.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 15, 2021 at 10:38 pm

    @Another Scott: That’s good.  But did it hurt anyone or any other animal on its 6 days on the lam?

  150. 150.

    Bluegirlfromwyo

    May 15, 2021 at 10:41 pm

    @Geminid: I call MTG Marjorie Soylent Greene.

    EDIT: and I should’ve looked upthread.

  151. 151.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 15, 2021 at 11:28 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Probably not

     

    @Van Buren:

    I definitely would

  152. 152.

    dr. bloor

    May 15, 2021 at 11:37 pm

    @Another Scott: Right?  They’d have had him in twenty minutes if they put out some empty cardboard boxes.

  153. 153.

    Calouste

    May 15, 2021 at 11:54 pm

    @TS (the original): In British usage (going by the BBC here) Queen (and Duke etc.) is a title, but Prime Minister (and President etc.) is a position. So second references in the same article of a titled person will typically by their title only, without their name, I.e. QEII would be “the Queen” rather than Mrs. Windsor.
    And office holders  don’t keep the name of their position for life, they will be called “former President” etc.

  154. 154.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    May 15, 2021 at 11:59 pm

    @Another Scott:

    I think that was the tiger that was illegally owned by somebody in that neighborhood. I remember reading that there are more tigers in private hands in Texas than in the wild. Glas that tiger was found and nobody seems to have been hurt

  155. 155.

    L85NJGT

    May 16, 2021 at 12:15 am

    I keep telling y’all – FTFNYT were staunch supporters of Andrew Johnson.

  156. 156.

    smike

    May 16, 2021 at 12:26 am

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: 

    The Scottish Fold in the sack that’s a part of the B calendar May ‘centerfold’ section

    That right there should be spoken aloud in a Scottish brogue. I have no idea what it means, but hey, not the first time.

  157. 157.

    CaseyL

    May 16, 2021 at 12:36 am

    @Raven: Yay for Bohdi!

    Isn’t there a medical procedure for yourself you were waiting on until after Bohdi’s leg issue was resolved?

    Will you be able to take care of you now?

  158. 158.

    Origuy

    May 16, 2021 at 1:02 am

    @smike: Scottish Fold is a breed of cat, known for its small ears. The rest of it is about the Balloon Juice calendar, which features photos of Juicer animals; I think there were two versions this year.

  159. 159.

    Ian R

    May 16, 2021 at 3:06 am

    @zhena gogolia: As I’m pretty sure we’re in the same city, any tips on dentists to avoid? Finally have dental insurance again.

  160. 160.

    Starfish

    May 16, 2021 at 3:11 am

    @Baud: Because you really want to see that time I repair a co-worker for lunch or that time I paid my yoga teacher?

  161. 161.

    smike

    May 16, 2021 at 3:24 am

    @Origuy: Thanks for that explanation, which is close to my best guess of what you were saying. Still, I would like to see that snippet of conversation in a movie dialogue.

  162. 162.

    rikyrah

    May 16, 2021 at 5:43 am

    @Raven:

    Yeah????

  163. 163.

    rikyrah

    May 16, 2021 at 5:47 am

    @frosty:

    Thanks. I will be on pins and needles until shot 2 and 14 day antibodies .

  164. 164.

    Sloane Ranger

    May 16, 2021 at 5:58 am

    @Calouste:

     

    And office holders don’t keep the name of their position for life, they will be called “former President” etc.

    Yes. There can be only one office holder at a time. It pisses the hell out of me when US interviewer’s still refer to former British Prime Ministers as Prime Minister and address them as such.

  165. 165.

    SFAW

    May 16, 2021 at 8:52 am

    @The Dangerman:

    Why a bunny?

    As NotMax could tell you, the more important question is: Why a duck?

  166. 166.

    WaterGirl

    May 16, 2021 at 9:14 am

    @Manxome Bromide: You’ve got me there!!!

    Yes, yes she is.  :-)

  167. 167.

    Uncle Cosmo

    May 16, 2021 at 10:13 am

    @Steeplejack: You know why RWNJs get such a charge out of “pwning the libs”? Because The Libs have this distressing, depressing, disgusting tendency to (in the immoral words of the Mountain Man in Deliverance) squeal like a pig at the slightest perception of a slight. Which only tells them they’re getting through & triggers sneering and snickering.

    That’s not how you deal with fucked-up fascisti:

    You ridicule them.

    You poke fun at them.

    You walk away laughing.

    And you grow a skin thick enough to never ever ever let them think they’ve wounded you in the slightest.

    Dr. William McClain (RIP), my German Lit 1914 to the (then-)Present prof at Johns Hopkins many years ago, told a story in the course of explaining why there was no German Lit to speak of during the Third Reich: The Nazis set about “aryanizing” the German language and the instant they started, people across Germany ridiculed them so ferociously they pulled the plug on the project and never went near it again. As he put it,

    It took the combined might of most of the industrialized world 6 years to defeat the Nazis on the battlefield – but the German people beat them in a few weeks, by laughing at them.

    Too damn bad most Libs are such wussies they can’t even conceive of putting those tactics into play.

  168. 168.

    MontyTheClipArtMongoose

    May 16, 2021 at 4:59 pm

    @Parfigliano: & then the prior atty shoots you.

  169. 169.

    MontyTheClipArtMongoose

    May 16, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    @The Moar You Know: cancel culture alive & well.

  170. 170.

    MontyTheClipArtMongoose

    May 16, 2021 at 5:14 pm

    @Geminid: i would rather drink simple green than contemplate the existence of median UGA alumna Marjorie Taylor-Greene.

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