seriously, assuming it all works as advertised, ford seems to be doing all it can to make this a no-brainer for a lot of truck owners, especially fleet operators
— Gerry Doyle (@mgerrydoyle) May 20, 2021
I showed this to the Spousal Unit, who said ‘Yeah, that’s why I’ve been putting off buying a generator.’ This is not why he put off buying a generator, of course (chronic RounTuIt deficiency), but… Is this the upscale, prosperous-American version of what Dean Kamen originally wanted to do when he invented the Segway?
if they’d had these in texas maybe no one notices ted cruz escaping to cancun https://t.co/AZLPCTfF5u
— kilgore trout, junky horse (@KT_So_It_Goes) May 20, 2021
just in general, why had no one thought of this before pic.twitter.com/TDvmKrt1A2
— Gerry Doyle (@mgerrydoyle) May 20, 2021
Full #F150Lightning backup power deets here: https://t.co/JMEx0EFpXC via @TechCrunch
— Mike “Mega Power Frunk Wolf” Levine ? (@mrlevine) May 20, 2021
"we call this feature the infinite loop"
— Gerry Doyle (@mgerrydoyle) May 20, 2021
Can’t wait for this to become a technical.
— Ankit Panda (@nktpnd) May 20, 2021
"cargo capacity for a 12.5mm anti-aircraft gun; power capacity to light up your training camp"
— Gerry Doyle (@mgerrydoyle) May 20, 2021
Power for a field laser or directed-energy microwave weapon!
— Cheryl Rofer (@CherylRofer) May 20, 2021
raven
Well, that’s a wrap. Off to Abbey Road Live!
Ken
I’m not following. How is this socialism?
dmsilev
It’s a really good deal for fleet operators. Charge at night at your yard, the low fuel and maintenance costs mean more more cost-of-ownership than a modest increase in purchase cost, etc. Probably not great for let’s say Forestry Service use where staff will spend most of a day driving through the back of beyond, but fora lot of their uses, yeah.
And while it shouldn’t matter, the fact that it looks like a ‘traditional’ truck rather than something out of a cheap SF video game will in fact matter to a fair chunk of buyers.
dmsilev
@Ken: Democrats like it. Therefore socialism.
NotMax
Base price of $40k, models going up to a tricked out $90k. Expect those to be unrealistic lowball numbers by the time it comes to market next year.
Also curb weight (est. 6500 pounds) is well over a thousand pounds more than the gas-powered ones, so cost of registration going to be commensurately more expensive.
Speaking of curb weight, the estimate for the planned electric Hummer is over 9000 lbs.
burnspbesq
Ford will sell approximately zero of these in Texas. The sound and emissions of a big-ass truck are a political statement and a tribal identifier here.
Baud
Building Ford Back Better
JaneE
Why does no one mention the frunk? Where the engine used to be, but with drain plugs so it can be a cooler for your tailgates.
Catherine D.
no-brain(er) = truck owner mostly, no? Cool truck, though. A friend of mine bought a used Volt for his around town car (keeping the Volvo wagon for retrieving children at colleges) and his gearhead soul loves the acceleration
burnspbesq
@NotMax:
Weight goes with the territory. Battery packs big enough to provide useful range are heavy. My VW id.4 is around 4,600 pounds. Audi e-tron comes in at 5,700. Even the flimsy-ass Tesla Model 3 is around 4,000.
craigie
We just went through a 5 day neighborhood power outage (drunk person took out two – two! – power poles). The sound of generators (and the sound of smugness) was a lot to take. Having silent power from one of these would have been maximum smugness. And no lost ice cream.
MagdaInBlack
@burnspbesq: My estimator at work displayed that sentiment when she said ” yeah it’s fast but it isn’t gas.”
RandomMonster
I’ve never wanted an F-150. Until now.
Dilbert dogbert
@burnspbesq: Some one will offer equipment to add the sound and smoke of Rolling Coal.
dmsilev
I kind of want to get one of these, trick it out with a bunch of Tesla coils and a giant Biden flag, and drive it around to troll the conservative roll-coal set.
trollhattan
A posh LA car service has been using electrics, Teslas mostly, and the further they got towards a million miles the more dramatically their costs fall, because IC cars would have all needed drivetrain (and other system) overhaul/replacement so expensive they’d have to be replaced. Fleet electric trucks will yield similar, and obvious, cost savings. Bubba don’t want one? No matter, he’ll be driving one for the company.
Guessing UPS and FedEx drivers prefer the electric vans but have never spoken to anybody about those. Just not having to start the thing after every delivery must be nice.
trollhattan
@Dilbert dogbert:
I joked the other day they’ll have to put firepits in the bed.
Ken
@burnspbesq: So in thirty years Texas will look a lot like Cuba did in the 90s, with thousands of carefully-maintained vintage vehicles that no one can get parts for.
Ruckus
Gary Doyle
People have thought of it before, Ford is not the first company to do this, power your home from your car.
They may be the biggest US company to make it part of the vehicle but they are not first. It is a great concept, solar power to charge your car, with a battery to store the electricity for when there is no sun and to be able to use your car if necessary to give even more backup. Or to use your car as the battery for after dark. Maybe if we can join the 21 century car wise we could join it, or even make it better, politically than being 2 centuries behind the times.
Baud
If all us liberals start driving F-150’s, will right wing voters be forced to switch to Priuses?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: I’ve been toying with the idea of buying a pick-up, and thought. I might wait for these to come on the market, but I don’t put much faith in that “base price”
Ohio Mom
As I recall, a few years ago Ford said they weren’t going to make cars anymore. So (no pun intended) they must have a lot riding on electric pick-ups.
Giving up making cars sounded like a dumb idea to me — all that institutional memory tossed — but I was an art major and freely admit the ways of MBAs are completely inscrutable to me.
burnspbesq
Charging out in the world isn’t that much cheaper than gasoline. Electrify America charges members 31 cents a KwH, plus four bucks a month for membership. Charging at home will be less expensive, once you amortize the approximately $1,000 cost of the charger and a 40 amp, 240 volt line out to the garage. If you live in an apartment or condo, charging at home may not be an option.
trollhattan
@Ken:
Texas? Third-world? Never!
Ten Bears
I love my old one ton Chevy four by four, be happy to trade it in for an electric.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
How do you like your ID4?
Seems like it would be a great car, if I wasn’t retiring next month, and drive less considerably less than 200 miles a month I’d love to have one. Or an Ionic 5.
burnspbesq
@dmsilev:
Don’t forget the armored doors and bulletproof glass.
trollhattan
@Ohio Mom:
Yeah, trucks and Mustangs. That’s their future lineup. What could possibly go wrong?
Honus
@burnspbesq: once it’s known that it cost $10 to charge as opposed to $50 to fill with gas even texans will buy them.
Ken
@burnspbesq: Wouldn’t the Tesla coils take care of that? The bullet would create an ionization trail and the voltage would follow that back to the shooter.
(And before everyone jumps in, I know, it wouldn’t work that way. Pity.)
burnspbesq
@Baud:
Naw, they’ll just step up to a F-350 Super Duty.
Another Scott
Yeah, unless the early adopters are fleet buyers who can demand a good price, the early buyers are going to be playing all kinds of “added dealer profit” surcharges. And there will be few if any base models available.
But it’s always that way.
I think Ford will be able to sell every one they build for the first ~ 5 years, unless they do something very, very stupid in the pricing.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
They will sell a TON of them in TX to fleet operators like municipal public works departments and an enormous array of corporate and business contractors. Look at how many pickup trucks your local municipal public works department owns? They have to generally keep a fully operational mechanic shop just to keep all those obsolete and complicated ICE engines maintained. A fleet of electric trucks that get plugged in every night at the maintenance lot will save them enormous money over the years just on maintenance and fuel. Electric vehicles require virtually no maintenance compared to ICE vehicles.
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
I’d bet they will come back with an electric car, oh I don’t know, like the Mustang E….
I’d also bet they are getting almost completely out of petroleum based vehicles in the not too distant future, but they will make electric cars and trucks. Some countries are saying in less than 15 yrs that no petroleum powered new cars can be sold. Norway is really pushing the electric car idea. The cold is a problem for all cars but they have the electric generation part down pretty good what with all their windmills, offshore and on. In Europe and China there are small electric cars that don’t have huge range but work just fine for the vast majority of driving. How often do you travel over 200 miles in a day? I’d bet not often at all.
burnspbesq
@Ruckus:
Loving it so far. Brakes took some getting used to, and I have to remember to disable all the “driver assistance” systems before putting it in gear, but it’s quick, it goes where you point it, it hauls a shit-ton of stuff, and it’s quiet as a library.
dm
@dmsilev: Set your Tesla coils up like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9H-38I83E
Or to really twist their knickers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNkvc8MCdek
The Golux
Regarding batteries, I’ve been watching this company for several years now. Imagine charging your phone for 15 minutes and having it last four days. Or for cars, either a much greater range, or the same range with shorter charge times and less weight.
rikyrah
@RandomMonster:
I still don’t want one, but I hope they sell like wildfire
jl
@trollhattan: For is the one of the largest auto makers in the world and have a global market, I think they’re third or fourth.
So, when the US truck market goes plop, I guess they can just go to some passenger car they’re selling overseas.
From what I read, customer preference is moving away from passenger cars in high income countries around the world, but move is far more dramatic in the US. So, I think Ford going truck and SUV only is mainly in the US.
jl
I think stereotypical ‘man stuff’, like puttering around with accessories and various vehicular projects at home, is needed for success. Along with some gruff but maple syrupy deep voiced actor to ramble about it on ads during various sportsball contests.
burnspbesq
If you want to get a sense of what living with EVs is like, check out the “Out of Spec Motoring” channel on YouTube. Lots of fun road trip and road test videos, with plenty of info about charging infrastructure and issues.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
The pricing announced is higher for the base model than current gas/diesel base models but the cost is rather comparable to the prices they sell most trucks at. With reduced maintenance and fuel costs that should be relatively equal.
@burnspbesq:
How much do you pay for gas in TX? Here in the hellhole of CA gas is minimum of $4/gal. 31cents/KwH is cheaper than that. Even the 39 cents that some local public chargers cost here is cheaper per mile.
Citizen Alan
@Ken: Marxism, actually.
jl
@rikyrah: “I still don’t want one, but I hope they sell like wildfire”
There is, for all practical purposes, a Ford 150 history museum on one of my relative’s farms. Surprising how many of the really old ones still run and are used for farm work.
Maybe I can spring one for $50 or so. If that might interest you.
Kent
If you look at what Ford and other auto makers are actually saying. They are saying that they aren’t going to design any NEW gas cars. They haven’t promised to stop making any of their existing gas vehicles. So I would expect them to keep pushing out all the regular models until demand dwindles and just not invest billions in coming up with a newly redesigned Ford Fusion or Ford Escape, or whatever.
Some companies are already doing this. Toyota, for example, has gone about 10+ years without redesigning it’s truck-based SUV models, the Sequoia and the 4Runner. The Toyota 4Runner last got a complete redesign 13 years ago in 2009 and has only seen minor cosmetic changes since then. and the Toyota Sequoia hasn’t been updated in any meaningful way since 2007. Same with the 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser. It was last redesigned in 2007.
I expect Ford will just keep milking it’s old gas model cars as long as enough people keep buying them without a major redesign. And then eventually just drop them for whatever new electric models they have by then.
Han
@trollhattan: And SUVs, and crossovers, and probably vans. “Car” has a pretty specific definition in the auto world, and no one’s buying cars anymore. At least not models with healthy profit margins.
Ohio Mom
Ruckus:
I get the idea of phasing out making gasoline-powered vehicles. I’m all for that.
But there is a lot more to building a car than the engine/fuel delivery system, there’s all the other parts, from the cabin to the tires and everything inbetween, and that is a pretty big chunk of expertise to let go of.
Or maybe it’s a union-breaking thing, though the engineers aren’t unionized.
JohnC
How would I, as a city-street-parking apartment dweller, move to this new gas-engine-free world? Yes, I know it won’t happen for a decade or more, but still, what is the solution to not being able to “charge it overnight at home”?
Kent
@Ruckus: I pay 9 cents/KwH here in Vancouver WA. It would take me about 30 min to punch a hole in the side of my garage and install a fast charger and hook it up directly to a new 240 volt circuit in my circuit box. Most people who use a pickup as a daily around town driver aren’t ever going to be charging at those sorts of expensive public charging places. Who drives across country in a F150?
jl
@dmsilev: When someone can figure out a good use for Tesla coil fireworks for the typical pickup owner, the EV market will explode.
Geminid
@trollhattan: The economics of electric school buses are comparable. A higher initial cost, but cheaper over the lifetime. Just a matter of financing. And school kids breath cleaner air.
Cummings Engines is making an electric power train package designed for retrofitting school buses, and similar sized trucks.
PeakVT
People have been talking about using electric car batteries as part of the “Smart Grid” for years. Ford is just the first to market from an OEM. It isn’t a fully grid-tied product but it is the obvious intermediate step. It probably wasn’t much additional development on top what was done to allow for all of the 120V plugs on the vehicle.
There is still the question of why Tesla wasn’t first to market with such a product.
Kent
I expect there will eventually be a whole new market in upscale car parking lots that have charging ports built in. You pay your $100/mo. or whatever for a secure parking place that has a charger.
The subsidized free car storage on the side of the street will eventually be converted into bike/scooter/small electric vehicle lanes.
dm
That partnership with Sunrun? Sunrun comes in and sets up your house for solar electric, installs the charger, and wires things up so you can run the house off the truck if need be, and can sell excess power to the electric company (where permitted).
Texas electric rates are extremely high, so the Sunrun deal will probably be pretty attractive to a lot of people, especially after last winter’s disaster.
I don’t know how it works for fleet operations, but I imagine Sunrun makes that damned attractive, too, especially when coupled with….
Sunrun also has a notion of a “Virtual Power Plant” — basically, they contract with you (and all their other customers in your area) to sell extra power to the power company, from the power company’s perspective, they’re another electricity wholesaler. This might work very well with Texas’ privatized electric grid.
Kay
@Kent:
My son has a “company truck” for an electrical contractor and he’s hoping he gets one. They drive a lot of miles. He is currently working about 90 miles from where he lives.
He’s kind of a hobbyist. He gets junked electric scooters, repairs them, and gives them away. He gave me one, probably partly for the amusement value of watching me ride it :)
He also talked me into an electric mower, which I love. I will never go back. I gave away the gas mower.
Soprano2
I can see them working for public works and sewer departments really well. You don’t want to know how much gas they waste idling in the winter just to stay warm for the driver. Not ever having to deal with our City garage again would be a plus, too. Easy to install the chargers and plug them in every night. When you factor in the savings from not buying gas and the longer life due to not having so many parts that wear out, it sounds like a vehicle management would love.
Doug R
@RandomMonster:
I know, right?
Kent
@Kay: Sure, but 90 miles 1-way is pretty unusual for fleet trucks. I expect they will keep some gas trucks around for those long drives. But most work trucks never get driven more than 50-100 miles per day.
PeakVT
@JohnC: Apartment dwellers are going to be left behind for a while. Most apartment complexes won’t retrofit chargers for a long time because of the economics. Various cities may retrofit curbside charging sporadically.
For now, apartment/condo dwellers will be stuck with fast-charging 1-2 times a week, or charging at work if they are lucky.
dm
@JohnC: The parking garage where I work has reserved spaces for electric vehicles with charging ports. I don’t know if there is a difference in the monthly garage ticket or not.
dm
One other aspect of these for construction contractors: you drive up to the work-site and you have power for all your power tools.
(ETA: I expected someone to sneak in between my two posts. Sorry.)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@raven:
That sounds like fun! When I was 12 I got to go see a Beatles tribute band, Beatlemania, live once with a friend of mine. Great fun! Even still have the signed picture I got from them
burnspbesq
@Ruckus:
These days, around $2.40-$2.50 for 87 octane.
Another Scott
@JohnC: Apartment dwellers with cars will demand charging spots, so they’ll get built. Someone here a few weeks ago was talking about discussion at their condo association about maybe installing chargers and there was lots of opposition until someone pointed out that it would increase the value of the complex…
Automakers are working on increasing the operating voltage of their electronics. If one can have the system operate and charge at 1000V then it takes 1/4 the time it does to charge at 240V… Improvements like that are coming, but it’s going to take a while.
Cheers,
Scott.
JohnC
@Kent: I actually pay a yearly fee to the city of Chicago for residential zone parking permit, but I understand what you mean. I can’t think of anyplace remotely nearby that could become one of those postulated parking lots-with-charging. The lifestyle change is going to be almost unimaginable for US city dwellers.
Geminid
@Kent: UPS plans to supplement a future fleet of electric vans with hybrid power trains for the longer routes. Rural school districts will probably do the same.
counterfactual
For on-street parking, old streetlights are wired for old lamps but are now using LEDs with much lower voltage needs. Some places have experimented with putting in public chargers on the street lamp poles.
dmsilev
@PeakVT: A few months before the pandemic shut everything down, I toured a new-build condo near where I live, just out of idle curiosity. It included wiring for chargers in the garage. The buyers would have to supply their own chargers, but that’s cheap compared to running conduit up to an in-unit panel on the second or third floor after the walls are finished and painted and so forth.
Doesn’t help much with existing buildings of course.
Gin & Tonic
Last month I bought what may well be the last new internal-combustion car I’ll buy in my lifetime. Sure, I may buy a *used* ICE, but if I’m in the market for a *new* car, I think an EV will lead my list. And it’s kind of throwback anyway, a Mazda Miata, a two-seat, front-engine, rear-wheel drive, manual transmission convertible with very little in the way of electronic gizmos. Practical? Hell no. Capital-F Fun? Hell yes. Is it as quick as a Tesla M3 Performance? No. But that isn’t the point.
Jay
@JohnC:
there is a fast charger, ( BC Hydro) on the street out front of our apartment building, that can handle all makes and models, with two stalls. In the buildings parking garage, there are 5 fast chargers and 12 slow charge plug in stalls in each garage floor, plus two fast chargers in guest parking. There are 3 fast chargers at the CaveOn/LCB/Gym/Office complex 4 blocks away, so if you can recharge while there.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@jl:
I’ve read that as well. Better that the trucks and SUVs will be electric instead of gas at least. I have no idea why this is happening though. I personally like small, sporty cars like the Ford Focus, etc
Kay
@Kent:
Oh, I agree. I think some of this stuff is more accepted than people assume. Parts of Ohio and Michigan are lousy with wind turbines and I never heard it talked about as a culture war issue until Trump did it. It’s not that controversial.
Our county put in a solar field with (Obama) stimulus money and it’s just “the solar field”. We have a municipal power system. People were glad and hoped they might save money.
Kent
@JohnC: New York is already installing these sorts of stacked car park systems:
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/automobiles/a-ferris-wheel-for-cars-and-trucks.html
which are common in places like Tokyo and China. It would be trivial to wire them for 240 volt charging.
It’s not a new idea. This is 1932 Chicago: http://wendycitychicago.com/the-car-parking-machine-1932/
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
The only big things that are changing are the parts that really wear out and require a lot of maintenance. And that’s even though manufacturing has made the cost of that maintenance lower because they last longer. Yes electronic screens are replacing the dash boards but then look at phones. Not that many years ago I used a Blackberry because it had an actual screen that I could use google maps on while I traveled for work, although it was so small as to be basically useless. Today you can still buy a phone that only lets you make wireless phone calls but the world is now full of hand held computers that allow you to make a phone call. Look at us, we live around the world but we all talk on a phone/laptop/desk computers now. I haven’t had a land line in 20+ yrs.
Electric vehicles are still cars, with seats, steering wheels, throttle pedals, brake pedals, doors, windows and they drive pretty much the same. You fill them up differently and can do that at home, they are quieter but still require you to pay attention and actually drive. What they lack is a tank of flammable liquid, reciprocating parts in the engine, a transmission, some sort of differential, oil/filter changes, more space inside, often completely flat floors and more load space than a comparable outside sized car.
Alison Rose
Today is the best caturday because it’s my kitty’s first birthday :)
Also, uh………yay truck?
Ruckus
@Kent:
Oh I agree. I want one and I live in an apartment. One would have to charge at a public charging station in a case like mine. Owning a home and even charging from a 110v plug would be OK for the vast majority, although it would be cheaper/faster in the long run with 240v service.
As to your last question, here in the eastern side of LA county, a fucking lot of people drive pickups, a lot of them drive jacked up 4w drive pickups, some drive really jacked up 4w drive pickups. I see one on my walk to work that has about a 12 in lift. Center of gravity is so high that it would likely roll over in many off road situations. But then I’d bet that the closest he’s ever been to off road was never. So I’d say a fair number would drive long distances because I’d bet good money they don’t own a car.
Ruckus
@PeakVT:
They aren’t first to market it, just the first US manufacture to do so.
PeakVT
@dmsilev: Many single-family homes will be easy to retrofit with a new 240V circuit costing $500-1000. At the next level, if a new panel is needed, it would add maybe $1500-2000 on top of the circuit cost. That’s still not prohibitive for most BEV buyers. But if new service from the street is needed then I think a lot of people will suffer with 110V charging and fast charging until the upgrades can be folded into a major remodel.
jl
@Ruckus: I looked for first place to do it, but I guess my search terms were so bad, I just got first electric cars. First known electric vehicle was in the 1830s:
The history of the electric car: It all started in 1832
” The history of the electric car started with British inventor Robert Anderson: He built his electrically powered vehicle in Aberdeen, a port city in northeast Scotland, between 1832 and 1839. He had once presented it at an industry exhibition in 1835. The car could travel around 12 kilometers per hour. It was a bit cumbersome to steer, but the drive unit was almost as quiet as the powertrain in the new Tesla. This pioneer in automotive history used a disposable battery for his vehicle, and crude oil was used to generate the electricity. This is how Anderson managed to get his electric car on the road long before the famous three-wheeled, gas-powered Benz Patent Motor Car from 1886. It stands as proof that cars did not run on gasoline from the beginning. ”
https://incharge.vattenfall.de/en/knowledge-hub/articles/the-history-of-the-electric-car-it-all-started-in-1832
Chetan Murthy
@Gin & Tonic: Mazel Tov! I hear those miatas are fun suckers alright! My 21yo Z3 got t-boned by a hit-and-run driver (the guy hopped out of his crashed car and hoofed it before the cops arrived), and so I’m carless. But when I go looking, it’ll be for a used Miata, b/c fun/fun/fun. I barely drive at all, and just want it to be a pleasure.
And after that, I hope to live on public transit.
JMG
Here on Cape Cod I’d guess somewhere between a third and a half of all vehicles of permanent residents are pickups, due primarily to boat ownership. In my senior golf league, to a man all the truck owners have expressed deep fascination with and interest in the Ford EV 150. I bet Texan truck owners aren’t THAT different. The idea of having a vehicle that’s also an emergency generator has strong appeal.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
better visibility, perceptions of greater safety, more room, status.
zoomie cars are great, and fun, but in large urban areas, there are few places to zoom safely.
here, the big thing is trying to avoid the accordion effect, by driving at traffic speed and maintaining distance, and you don’t need a zoomie to do that.
burnspbesq
How badly do Texans jones for pickups? There is a company in Dallas that does Porsche Cayenne pickup conversions. If you threw enough money at them, I imagine they would do a Bentley Bentayga or Aston Martin Valkyrie conversion.
jl
@Ruckus: I like the idea of getting rid of as much clunky troublesome stuff that is in an internal combustion engine and associated nonsense in a car as possible.
I don’t have regular access to a charging station, so had to go for a hybrid, and got a Honda Insight last year. It was close call between that and some similar hybrids, but ‘no transmission’ kept calling me in the back of my mind and went Insight.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
old Mazda Miata’s here tend to get the 5L and suspension upgrade.
jl
@burnspbesq: Don’t need no stinking conversion to get a Rolls pickup.
Rolls-Royce Cullinan Rendered As World’s Most Luxurious Pickup
https://www.motor1.com/news/366823/rolls-royce-cullinan-pickup-rendering/
Cermet
Most homes have 240 – the dryer; adding an outlet to the main panel is very straight forward so I’d think that once these became more common, cost to add an outlet would be much cheaper. Of course, I needed 240 in my garage and installed my own outlet; took me all of an hour and most of that time was drilling into concrete wall to mount the outlet.
Yutsano
@burnspbesq: …
I mean I know it’s Texas but…who would possibly do such a horrible thing?
NotMax
@JohnC
At least initially, pretty much the same way you gas up your car now. You don’t do that from your apartment building, you drive to a gas station. So instead you drive to a charging station.
I expect for those apartment buildings with indoor parking there will develop a market for individually owned trickle chargers, giving enough juice if the vehicle is low to get you to an outside charging station.
Gin & Tonic
@Chetan Murthy: The only way to have more fun in a car requires a back seat, which the Miata doesn’t have.
No name
@Alison Rose: She is the definition of cattitude! My two send happy birthday wishes ?
burnspbesq
The German car companies are all in on EVs. In addition to what you can buy today (id.4, e-tron, Taycan, i3), in the next 6-12 months you will see an electric subcompact SUV from Audi (Q4 e-tron), the coolest station wagon ever (Taycan Cross Turismo), fully electric versions of the x3 and Macan, and a full range of electric Benzes.
jl
@Yutsano: I’d rather roll in a Rolls flatbed out in the north 40, wrangling the cattle, thank your very much.
So there, yeah, I said it, and I ain’t taking it back.
burnspbesq
@Yutsano:
The same jackalopes who park their ICE cars in front of chargers out of spite.
Tim C.
@burnspbesq: Yeah, but the fast charging stations are really only needed for long-distance driving. I have a 240 Volt plug on my house, I plug the car in when it needs to charge up and in the morning it’s ready. Most people don’t go more than 250 miles in a day around town.
ETA: Apologies, I see this is already covered pretty well above in terms of who is using trickle chargers and who can install the level 2 stuff.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
Fair enough but if pretty much everybody gets one and drives them on the road you can’t see very much in front of you in traffic, so that benefit would fly out the window
As for more room, I’ve often seen it suggested by car enthusiasts that if buyers want more room, than they would be better off with a hatchback/wagon
I do agree that that the SUV/truck trend is being driven by all the factors you mentioned above
jl
@burnspbesq: Apparently there was a Lamborghini pickup truck. Covert that, suckahs!
Lamborghini LM002: When Lamborghini Made a Pickup Truck
by Matthew Skwarczek on November 12, 2019
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/lamborghini-lm002-when-lamborghini-made-a-pickup-truck/
NotMax
Had I any interest in a pick-up I’d lean much more to putting the Rivian on my wish list than the Ford. YMMV.
Gotta say I’m intrigued by the proposed price of the Canoo vanlet. More pix here. Some find the design downright unsightly, I happen to think it looks spiffy. Whether or not it actually makes it to the market still an open question, though.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@burnspbesq:
All I can say to these people is, good luck when the manufacturers stop making ICE trucks and you start to run out of parts for them. It is absolutely insane to turn EVs into a culture war issue
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@Ruckus: True. Here in Westchester County, NY, “off road” is “a gravel driveway.” The jeep and pickup drivers are all revved up with no place to go.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
I miss the small, two door sporty trucks of the 90s. If I was ever going to drive a truck, that would be it. Then again, the Toyota Tacoma is pretty nice too, if expensive
Art
I’m cool with EVs. Having the knowledge I could hook up the 240v charging station in a couple of hours plus the cost of the charger. I probably have the other materials on hand. Electric makes sense for a truck. Electric motors are constant power devices that can produce essentially the same torque at any speed. Unlike a gasoline engine that have to be brought up to high rpms to develop torque and pulling capacity. This why EVs seldom lack for acceleration. Electric motors make towing a load on hills easy.
My objection is to the overall size of the truck. It is far too large for what it is most likely to spend its time doing: hauling two adults and a couple of bags of groceries. What used to be called mid-sized trucks from 90s were about perfect for most tradesmen. Large enough to carry a few sheets of plywood, some dimension lumber and a couple of people, three if you were all on first names. And do it without struggling. The sides were low enough to toss a bag of dog food or concrete over without having to open the tailgate. Low enough to fit a cross-bed toolbox in behind the cab. They were small enough to maneuver well around town and in tight construction sites. But still capable of hauling enough tools and materials to do real work.
I still have a 1995 Ford Ranger and, because all the truck companies went for outrageously Supersized vehicles , I get asked if I would sell it. Typically I’m offered more than what I paid for it. Small is beautiful. I won’t be buying a new truck until they get back to making them as small, ideally just a bit smaller than, my Ranger.
IMHO the new Ford Rangers, as big as the old F-150 full-size, suck. I think they screwed up royally making the electric truck so large. They could have doubled-down on efficiency if they went electric, and small. I suspect that Toyota, which up to this point has joined US companies in building bloated vehicles, may reverse the trend and go smaller. My next truck may or may not be electric but it sounds like it may be Japanese simply because, based upon what I’m hearing, they are responsive to what I want.
PeakVT
@Ruckus: I am only aware of Nissan’s (Leaf and e-NV200) and Mitsubishi (iMEV and Outlander PHEV) ability to support V2G systems. GMP actually has a pilot here in VT. But because CCS currently doesn’t support V2G, the pilot is limited to Leafs, essentially, which use CHAdeMO. But that’s a somewhat different product from the V2H that Ford is offering, and from what I can tell the devices are all third party, not OEM. Ford has not tried to get all the way to a smart grid and has instead come up with a product that most buyers understand before even walking into the showroom.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@jl:
Oh god that’s like something out of Pimp My Ride lol
CaseyL
The EV F-150- looks like fun to me, and I confess that’s because I saw President Biden tear around in one, having a great time.
Never been much for trucks, but the EV Ford might change my mind. Charging would be an issue: there are no charging stations at my townhouse complex, not likely to be any, and I’m not sure I have any 240 volt wiring in my unit (unless kitchen appliances run on 240?). The mall near me has a couple of charging stations, that always seem to have cars using them. Ditto Seattle College North, also near me, though I think they have more stations.
jl
@NotMax: I have zero sense of automotive beauty. For me, it’s like trying to imagine what color polarized light looks like to a bee or a bird. The damn things starts and stops, steers, or it doesn’t, and that is all I can perceive.
So, all I can say is that for a car that looks like a pillbug, it’s mighty sexy and stylish.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
A niche market, granted, however one can still buy parts for a Model T. They just no longer come from Ford.
Timill
@Cermet: The problems come when the power goes out and you want to run the house off the EV. At that point you need to disconnect the panel from the grid. Otherwise you could fry the lineman fixing the power system, which is generally considered rude.
NotMax
@jl
Yeah, it has enough of a slight faux Art Deco vibe to appeal to my own proclivities.
Jay
@Art:
Toyota still builds smaller, they just don’t sell them in North America because of a lack of demand. 80’s sized, not 70’s sized.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
Ah. Though I’d imagine those parts would be a lot more expensive
Just Chuck
“Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!” — H. Simpson
swiftfox
Last I heard, heating the interior of a car in winter reduces the range by a third. Might not do well with northern long-distance commuters.
Another Scott
@Art: +1
Trouble is, the US car companies make most/all of their money on their giant pickups. They have an effective 25+% profit margin thanks to the chicken tax.
I love my 2004 Jetta TDI Wagon because I can put 800+ pounds of stuff from Lowes in the back and still get 44 mpg commuting to work (and 50 MPG on highway trips if I baby it). I don’t want an SUV, I don’t want a pickup, I don’t want a CUV, I want my next ride to be a small electric wagon that has similar load capacity and 300 mi range (my VW has a 700 mile range). I’m not optimistic that I’ll be able to find something like that in the next 5 years, so may end up getting a hybrid something or other. But we’ll see.
There’s obviously a big market for this Lightning thing, but it’s not for me.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
@CaseyL:
if you have a dryer in suite, you probably have 240v.
if not, 240v is what comes into your building, and all the way up to your in apartment panel, where it is split down into 120v on each side.
Adding 240v is just a breaker change and new wiring after the breaker.
jl
@NotMax: As I noted, I have zero comprehension of automotive beauty. And I tried to develop one when in the market for a new car a year ago, since I thought that was part of due diligence in purchasing one. But, it just didn’t happen despite my best efforts.
So, the car objectively looks like a pillbug, and IMHO, so what? The ‘sexy’ and ‘stylish’ was a joke. I really have no clue what that means RE a car.
Just Chuck
@CaseyL: Most home appliances use 240V, so if you have a washer/dryer, you should have 240V. Look for a round outlet with prongs at angles to each other. https://mrelectric.com/240-volt-outlets
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
A lot of the aftermarket parts, come from China, are cheaper than stock, and quality varies.
Dan B
@The Golux: EVbatteries are already good enough but there are great things on the horizon like solid state that charge in minutes and don’t have flammability issues.
One holdup may be Lithium availability. A friend is prospecting near Winnemucca for Lithium. He was brought out of a financially secure retirement so they must be paying him boatloads. Nevada and Eastern Oregon (North Nevada) are both likely to have huge deposits. Finding the water to process it or a low water method will be important.
jl
@Just Chuck: Now we’re talking. If you can throw dishes and clothes into the truck and it’ll wash them, dry your hair and nails with it, that widens the demo to T-ball dads and soccer moms, busy yuppies and such and so forth demos.
A Ghost to Most
I’ll buy an electric vehicle when Toyota is ready to sell me one. Meanwhile, Yamaha has developed a 268 hp electric replacement motor that’s perfect for replacing the V6 in my 4Runner.
CaseyL
@Jay:
@Just Chuck:
I don’t have a washer/dryer in my unit; but there’s one of each down in the storage room for our building. So there’s 240 somewhere, but running a car charger line from it runs into a whole can of worms; chiefly: how to make sure the person who uses the line to charge their car is also the person who pays the electric bill for doing so.
rjnerd
I have been inconveniencing electrons for 6.5 years now. I want an electronic microvan. (Smaller than what currently gets called a minivan). Ideal would be something like the mid 80’s toyota that I had. It was very compact, so it could be parked in the city, but you could still get a full 4×8 sheet of wood in the back, and close the doors. These are available in Europe now, including from some of the EU divisions of US automakers.
Currently in addition to the EV, I keep a “stinkpot” around (currenly a mazda5) for bulky objects. It usually uses 2 tanks of gas a year. Its not the best fit for me, as while its a good size, the behind rather than over the front axle driver seating, means the cargo space is under 6′
Supposedly VW is bringing in its re-imagining of the original microbus next year. Perhaps Ford can be convinced that the EV version of the little Transit Connect they sell elsewhere has a place in the US market. The full sized transit is bigger than I want, and is clearly aimed at fleet purchase, as they didn’t give it primary vehicle range (150 rather than >250 mile) I had a chat with one of the product managers for EV trucks, when they announced the electric Transit. I know I am a bit of an edge case, but I can’t be that rare.
Ken
You can do that with any pickup. Just throw them in the back and use the car wash.
Pro tip: Don’t opt for hot wax.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@jl:
I think your sense of automotive beauty is fine so long as you don’t think the Tesla Cybertruck looks good lol
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Met someone in Pennsylvania like 50 years ago who owned a Goggomobil. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if that sucker is still running.
Dan B
@Ruckus: There are lots of older model EV’s for sale. Their range is from 80 to 100 miles. My partner says they go for $6,000 to $9,000. There are minor differences between our 2015 Leaf and our 2021. They’re equally comfortable and quiet. The 2021 has noisy alerts if you stray out of the lane, get approached by another vehicle, or are heading too rapidly towards another vehicle or barrier. Those are good for older drivers with slower reflexes. It doesn’t park itself like our friend’s 2017 Prius but we’re good at parking
We see a lot of older BMW EV’s in a used EV yard. Haven’t test driven one but they look like they’d be great with the fun stuff.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
So you’re telling me there’s hope that some MAGAts would destroy their aging coal rollers with cheap, substandard replacement parts from China to own the libs?
different-church-lady
Well, now I happened to be on a crew that interviewed Dean Kamen earlier this month. And he said the Segue came about because he was passionately working on the iBot “wheelchair” (although they don’t like to call it that) and insurance companies didn’t want to pay for it beyond the cost of a normal motorized wheelchair. Plus normally mobile people thought using an iBot was a blast. So they figured that if they came up with a product that would appeal to the general public that used all the same components as an iBot, that would drive down the component cost of the iBot.
jl
This thread has sent me down a bizarre rabbit hole of insane internet searches, and for that, I damn it into eternity. Anyway, there were attempts at coal powered cars, may they rest in peace:
Remember when GM made a coal-powered turbine engine car? We didn’t either
GM dabbled in really alternative fuels in the 1980s but its turbine car wasn’t the first or the last on American roads.
Kyle Hyatt, Roadshow, June 2, 2019
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/gm-coal-powered-turbine-chrysler-leno-ecojet/
Dan B
@JohnC: There are solutions for on-street charging. Financing is the issue. And the future 15 minute charging batteries make it a bit too early to invest when fewer chargers, or just a few at grocery stores will be plenty in ten years.
We charge at home on 110. It takes 8-10 hours but we sleep that much. We charge at casinos, and ski resorts, and outlet malls, and the odd organic market when we go on road trips. It’s a different mind set.
And there are some high end single family neighborhoods (home prices from 1 mil to 3 mil!) where there are extension cords across sidewalks and parking strips at every third or fourth house. That would be outlawed in the south…
Chetan Murthy
@different-church-lady: I remember reading at the time the Segway came out, that Kamen got the idea from inventing motorized wheelchairs that could go up-and-down stairs.
zhena gogolia
Wow, from colonoscopies to trucks. Fascinating set of topics today. (not)
raven
@Dan B: I have a KIA Niro, one gas one electric “motor”.
NotMax
@jl
Probably mentioned previously, this Dutch guy’s relatively short automotive history videos are both educational and fun.
jl
@NotMax: Thanks, I’ll take a look. I see one called ‘The Disappearance of the Packard’.
One of my earliest memories of an automobile is what I later learned was an affectionate last family ride in an oldster’s ancient Packard before it was sent off to wherever beloved family cars go. I remember ornate upholstered seats and embroidered linings and seat cushions. I remember it has the Taj Mahal of automotive interiors.
Ken
And we have tonight’s “six degrees of wikipedia” challenge! Find the fewest link-clicks that take you from wiki:Colonoscopy to wiki:Truck.
Another Scott
Relatedly, TTAC:
Ignoring the hippy-punching, and the fact that any electric Beast would obviously be a clean-sheet design, this shows that electric vehicles really are the future. They’re going to be just about everywhere, and pretty soon.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
@Ken: That Ford 150 Lightning can do colonoscopies too? Daayyamm! That’s a whole heap o’ truck there.
jl
@Another Scott: For some reason, there are people who just mentally and emotionally explode at the idea of moving on from the old school internal combustion engine.
When I was shopping for a hybrid, I came a across a youtuber who test drove sporty compacts. He’d roar an ICE version around a hilly course and rave about how it ‘sculpted the turns’ at high speed. Then he’d drive a compact hybrid around the exact same course in the the exact same way, with all the fuel efficiency switches turned off and sneer that it didn’t get the advertised mileage, and complain that these hybrids were hunks of crap not worth the money.
Mike in NC
Wife is still driving her 2004 Honda CR-V with no end in sight. Next car will likely be electric.
Another Scott
@jl: My father had a green 1955 Chevy Bel Air that he nicknamed the Green Hornet. It took me a while to discover that a Hornet was a car brand back in the day. (Of course, the Green Hornet character drove a car called Black Beauty so things were pretty mixed up in trying to draw parallels!)
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@swiftfox: There can be similar problems with air conditioning. I heard a car talk-type show host lay out the scenario of cars getting stuck in a traffic jam trying to get through the Lincoln Tunnel in July, and running out of power. An avoidable problem, but still a potential one.
NotMax
@Ken
wiki:Tailpipe? Do not pass Kevin Bacon, do not collect $200.
:)
Keith P
My Chevy Volt had generator capability but GM disabled it in an update.. I can still hack it on but haven’t bothered
Philbert
Here’s the plan Charge up at work, run your house when you get home.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@jl:
My dad had a late 80s (1989, I think) Oldsmobile Cutlass International series. Had the digital dials and everything. It was pretty cool. It was later given to my grandparents as a daily driver, which I always enjoyed a ride in when I stayed with them on the occasional weekend
Jay
@CaseyL:
the usual way of setting it up is a “pay at the pump” system, where you use debit/credit or an account code and pin with the provider, just like at a gas pump.
In places here, where electricity is really cheap, some stores and offices have added free chargers for customer use. Like a validated parking dtamp.
Kirk Spencer
Given my car ownership history, my next purchase will be in about a decade barring another vehicle-totaling incident. So what i’m hoping is that self-driving vehicles are a thing instead of an almost thing, and that the EV is approaching default.
CaseyL
@Another Scott: Raise the limo half a foot or so, to make room for the battery packs. Put a couple of steps by the doors for entry and exit. Voila!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
I wouldn’t either. A 250cc engine! Most motor scooters have engines that size
NotMax
@jl
No idea what make and model it was, may well have been a Packard. A distant relative tooled around in a car during the 1950s about which I vividly remember the tufted maroon velvet upholstery.
Dan B
@Geminid: I’ve heard that heat pump heating and cooling is much more efficient but it is a bigger initial cost.
jonas
I actually watched the big Lightning unveil live online the other day and the one feature that really made me go “daayyyum!” was the “in a pinch, you can power your house with our truck”. That could be a game changer in many parts of the country (I’m thinking esp. the eastern seaboard and SE) that are prone to floods and hurricanes. The 40K anticipated pricetag doesn’t seem like a very big deal, either — people routinely drop 50-75K on huge, jacked-up pickups that get 15 mpg. Add in the fact that you’re not paying for any gas or the kind of regular maintenance you have to do on an IC engine, and it’s a pretty sweet deal.
Belafon
@burnspbesq: i know of 5 of us here in Texas that will buy it.
Texans also buy Toyota Tundra, so your stereotyping isn’t going to stock in this case.
Ruckus
@JohnC:
In Britain there is a lot of effort going into making light poles charging stations or putting stations in along city streets, because a lot of people are in the same situation you and I are. Likely it have an app, like Apple Pay or like the Metro transit system here in LA has. Park, plug in, use the app, come out in the morning and your car is charged, you coil up the cable and drive off. Remember you don’t have to charge every day, unless you drive a lot.
Lyrebird
okay, got it… I just saw “Nissan” and figured they built it.
Can you explain what this means to someone who is not going to buy a huge truck but might want this system? Would we have to buy a Nissan? an F150 would require a different garage and therefore a different house, not happening.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
some gearheads care about quality, durability,
others just go for cheap,
An OEMQuality rebuild of a Toyota 2.4 is good for 300k km to 500k km, or better. A China parts rebuild saves you 30%, and is at best, good for 250k km.
Annoying MAGAt’s drive the biggest domestic Coal Rollers they can afford, then buy all over again when it craps out. The semi sensible ones part it out or have it towed. The moron crowd leave it as lawn art.
Lyrebird
@Another Scott:
I wish car companies were catering to YOU! That is what I want right there.
Does Lowe’s have hourly truck rental though? Home Depot does… both companies have their issues, I know, but that ‘s not the point here. Might end up getting an electric car and then regularly renting something bigger.
Jay
@Kirk Spencer:
self driving cars are the flying cars of the 40’s and 50’s.
the problem is not so much an issue with the sensors, computing speed or power,
they just can’t handle the roads and the poor maintenance of the infrastructure, and the Billionaires would rather spend money on ego trips to Mars than spend it on fixing potholes.
jl
@Jay: ” leave it as lawn art. ”
Ah… memories of one of my Central Valley neighborhoods when I was a wee tyke. sniff sniff… brings a sentimental tear to my eye.
Ruckus
@Dan B:
I know about the used ones. Some of them can be a pretty good deal.
I’d love an electric car.
But.
I had a van, from when I had my bike shop, crappy mileage and all but it was paid for and the total cost for me outside of gas for 11 yrs of driving was $4500. That’s purchase and repairs. And then the engine did something nasty, which would have doubled the cost. I traded it in on a car that can get over 40 mph, 30 around town and I just finished paying it off. I’m retiring and this likey will be my last car. It’s 5 yrs old and has 13k miles on it. So I’m “in” the market, but not really in the market.
Another Scott
@Lyrebird: Yeah, renting is an option. Delivery is an option too. ;-) I really like flexibility, but it’s selfish and spoiled to not think about options.
Martin mentions his electric bike occasionally. Other than the issues with downpours and getting run over, and a former colleague who was riding in the winter and came across a street that the city had used a street sweeper on (with water) when it was below freezing, so he slipped and fell and broke some bones (and ended up suing the city)…, that would probably work best for me for my commute (it’s only 11 miles one way). But I still like living (and while the real commuting distance by bike would be only be 3 miles more, it would basically add an hour each way).
I figure in 50-100 years we’ll have more transportation options – people won’t have to carry around a two-ton+ hunk of metal and glass to go to work – and 50-250 pound electric gizmos make a lot more sense for short commutes, but we’re not there yet.
I figure there’s a lot more change coming to the transportation field in the next few decades. Automobiles and trucks are presently a very tough business to be in because of the safety and environmental rules (they have to stay relatively clean for 10 years or 100,000 miles), parts availability requirements (10 years?), dealer networks usually can’t be owned by the manufacturer (but Tesla found a way around that), etc., etc. If/when we get rid of the chicken tax, the US incumbents will be under a lot of stress to come up with other vehicles that are profitable and it may be difficult for them given their legacy costs.
I mentioned TTAC above. In olden days, the former owner/publisher/editor had a regular feature called “GM Deathwatch” because of all the legacy problems they had. And he was right. The GM of today only exists because of the rescue and restructuring after Bush blew up the economy. But it (and Ford and FIAT/PSA/Chrysler/Stellantis) still have a lot of legacy costs… And electrics are easier (no emissions to worry about, CAD/CAE is ubiquitous for designing crumple zones, etc.) and they buy (kinda) off-the-shelf batteries so the battery manufacturers have to figure out the safety issues.
Exciting times!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Before I moved here 2 yrs ago, I lived in Pasadena and that city required all apartments to install charging spaces/panels. They were installed in the underground parking area of the building I lived in about 3 yrs ago. We went from zero electric cars to 3 Teslas in one year.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
And they aren’t cheap. They reflect the people that have enough money to sink into a collectors item rather than a driver.
My boss has a number of older cars, the oldest being 52 or 53, I’m not sure which. He’s putting together an early Camaro that will be far more hot rod than anything Camaro, full hand built frame with 4 wheel independent suspension, huge disk brakes, Current Corvette rear end. It is very, very nice, not something I’d actually ever own but I’d bet when it’s done it will maybe have a few hundred miles on it at most over the next 25-30 yrs.
Jay
One of my friends lives in the boonies, has an electric Hilux, ( a conversion out of Kelowna), charges it from his home wind/solar, or when bushing it, a 2000 W Honda inverter generator.
Uses a battery pack out of a Tesla that was going way too fast and is nothing more than hazardous waste to the scrapyard.
JAFD
Rented car this weekend (had year-and-a-half’s worth of stuf to get to friend in Pennsylvania…)
1 – Gas, downtown Newark , 3 PM 5/20/21, was $2.91/gallon, cash
2 – Whatever you do, don’t get a Hyundai Accent. High-speed handling is somewhere between ‘flaky’ and ‘this thing’s trying to kill me’
Anyway, made acquaintance with friends’ 9-month-old teenkitten, Empire (mother named Apple, littermates Braeburn and Cortland). Is veddy smart feline – daddy was Maine Coon
Art
“Chicken Tax” I was aware there were some import tax complications but wow. Thanks for the read.
Kent
There were 4 Toyota Priuses on my block in suburban Waco. Probably belonged to Baylor Professors. Texas is a very big and diverse state.
JohnC
@Ruckus: I can easily picture charging machinery being built into street light poles and such, activated and paid via app. But, keeping it in working order after vandalism…
JohnC
@Dan B: Good point about the future ludicrously fast charging – when it gets to 15 minutes or less that easily happen at a “fuel station”.
Ruckus
A show called Fully Charged holds electric car shows in the UK, Europe and the US.
None last year, for obvious reasons and not one in the states this year but they will be back in 2022 in,
wait for it….
Austin, TX.
It was sold out in 2019, it was sold out for 2020 but then a rather inconvenient issue came up and it just couldn’t be arranged for 2021 so it’s next year. I already have a ticket so I plan to attend.
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott:
Why do you hate unions?!
Ruckus
@JohnC:
That might be less of a problem over in old blighty. Maybe not. But there are thousands of chargers in the US and they don’t seem to be high targets of vandalism.
factchecker
@Ruckus:
Ruckus is correct it has been thought of before.
Has been available for over 5 years in Japan. Nissan Japan actually advertised the feature. There are even examples of small stores using Leafs as power.
Nissan Announce “LEAF to Home” Power Supply System
Posted on June 4, 2012 by Jim
https://v2g.co.uk/2012/06/nissan-announce-leaf-to-home-power-supply-system/
Vehicle-to-grid energy storage goes into action at Amsterdam Arena
By: Andy Colthorpe
Published: 9 Dec 2019,
https://www.energy-storage.news/news/vehicle-to-grid-energy-storage-goes-into-action-at-amsterdam-arena
Electric vehicle powers Johan Cruijff ArenA through V2G technology
Dec 11, 2019
The Mobility House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHRPIx9bpU
Australia – Nissan LEAF to light up Australia: Industry-first vehicle-to-grid charging technology launched at Realising Electric Vehicles Services (REVS) in ACT
First vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology to be introduced in Australia through Nissan’s support of Realising Electric Vehicle Services (REVS)
https://www.nissan.com.au/about-nissan/news-and-events/news/2020/July/nissan-leaf-to-light-up-australia.html
factchecker
2020 Sept – EV concept provides mobile power supply in aftermath of natural disasters
As a disaster recovery vehicle, the RE-LEAF can power multiple devices simultaneously. Here are some examples based on 230-volt power use:
Electric jackhammer – 24 hours – 36 kWh
Pressure ventilation fan – 24 hours – 21.6 kWh
10-liter soup kettle – 24 hours – 9.6 kWh
Intensive care medical ventilator – 24 hours – 3 kWh
100-watt LED floodlight – 24 hours – 2.4 kWh
Nissan RE-LEAF: Power when it’s needed, where it’s needed
2020/09/29
https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/nissan-re-leaf-power-when-its-needed-where-its-needed
Zinsky
Very, very late to the thread, but I think the new Ford F-150 EV is a game-changer. Suddenly, “macho” guys want to own an EV. This flips the right-wing narrative that people who drive EVs are “wimps” or “pussies”, on it’s head! The Twitter re-tweet about preppers wanting one was spot on, too. My 68 year old brother-in-law, who lives in Idaho and has FoxNews on 24/7, is gonna want one of these babies! I think the death of the internal combustion engine just got more imminent!
JR
@burnspbesq: Some places offer free charging. I have an electric hybrid and I would never use one of the private charging companies. Cost is too high. Consumer pressure needs to drive it down.
JR
@PeakVT: I remember people talking about using Tesla cars as generators (after all, isn’t that basically what the power wall is?). My guess is the inverter functionality goes against the Tesla upscale/luxury image.
Uncle Cosmo
Wait, whut?? There is a well-unpublicized law on the books in Baltimore City that any vehicle parked on a public street that has not been moved in 72 hours is subject to removal to the City impound lot, to be redeemed only upon payment of several hundred dollars in parking tickets and towing charges. I found this out to my great sorrow (and loss of $$$) about a dozen years ago when I bought a new car & had no place but the street to stash my old one as I tried to unload it.
Now it has been rather rare for this law to be invoked, and to be sure my old wreck was parked on an unmetered street in a commercial neighborhood – but in the interim I have seen at least one auto ticketed, with a note warning “Move this car by mm/dd or it will be towed to the Impound Lot,” right in front of my home in a totally residential neighborhood.
During the Plague Months I grew uneasy at the prospect that the City – which is chronically short of cash and utterly dedicated to squeezing its residents to get it – would send out the Parking Nazis to hoover up some odd $$$ by enforcing this upon older car owners like me who were CHIPping (cowering helplessly in place) and only venturing out once every couple of weeks. That this didn’t happen, I ascribe to the greedy SOBs at City Hall being too stupid to realize the law existed.
Chief Oshkosh
@CaseyL: Electric ovens (including dual fuel) and clothes dryers run on 220/240.
Uncle Cosmo
@Kent: I’m starting to look for a new car & would love to upgrade to an EV, but as a city-dweller with no offstreet parking available & damn few charging stations in the area, a plug-in hybrid is about the best I could manage right now. My best move appears to be to lease a hybrid (plug-in or no) for 3 years and hope the charging situation improves drastically in the meantime. If I can even find someone who’s offering a lease on one…
Frankly I think Baltimore City missed a huge opportunity ca. 1980, when it was just as desperate for revenue. They could have bought up the handful of older smallish mostly open-air shopping centers in the outer regions of the City, which were all struggling; built multi-level parking garages on their parking lots; operated inexpensive express buses to downtown from those locations, and charged a reasonable fee for all-day parking in those garages, encouraging downtown workers from the ‘burbs to leave their vehicles there; meantime imposed a London-style “congestion fee” for the hardcore who insisted on parking in the heart of town.
Hybrid buses and reduced traffic would drastically improve the air quality downtown. And those outer-city shopping centers would become extremely attractive locations for the “big-box” stores whose real-estate taxes the city has always craved: Commuters on their way home could do serious shopping with their car/SUV right across the parking lot, and the stores might even subsidize part of the garage. (ETA: Lower rates for evening parking for shoppers coming in from the ‘burbs.) And these would now be ideal locations for retrofitting EV charging stations for those commuters and for city dwellers unable to install home facilities (who could plug in late at night at reasonable yet profitable rates for the city).
(NB At that time [1980], I worked for a State office crammed with econometricians, who asked me as the only person in the office who was actually from Bawlmer [or for that matter, Merlin] to draft the City part of a proposal for future development in MD. This is mostly what I proposed. That gaggle of overcredentialed imbeciles [who FTR were mostly very nice and intelligent people outside of the office] threw out my ideas as “stupid”. Har de har har.)
J R in WV
@Kent:
I didn’t, but I did drive a F-350 cross-country both ways towing a trailer full of backhoe and other construction tooling. Diesel, was pretty interesting trip. Worried some about over night parking, tools disappearing, so installed an alarm with a motion detector on the back of the truck with noisemaker in the hotel room.
Truck was able to move the load without any problem, tons of equipment, barely felt the load even pulling away up hill.
way2blue
I don’t think Ford is the first company to think of using an electric car batteries to power a house. When I was in the Outer Hebrides, Scotland, a few years back, we stopped at a small fair at a beach that had booths focused on environmental issues (e.g., restoring the peat; planting native trees). I chatted with a man who had a Tesla S on display. He worked for the islands’ energy provider. Mostly wind. Since it’s quite windy in the Outer Hebrides and their electric grid is old & fragile—he said people with solar panels/personal windmills & electric cars already had converters to run their homes during the fairly common blackouts. Seemed like a great idea and such a practical, fitting solution for those living in this rather isolated region.