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You are here: Home / Open Threads / The State of Oceania (The 1984 One)

The State of Oceania (The 1984 One)

by Betty Cracker|  June 23, 202112:49 pm| 118 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity

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After whining non-stop about tech company “censorship” when private businesses enforced their terms of service on Agent Orange, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis showed us what honest-to-dog censorship looks like when he signed a bill banning the 1619 Project and discussions of critical race theory in Florida’s public schools. Now he’s out to identify thought-crimes at state universities: [Miami Herald]

In his continued push against the “indoctrination” of students, Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday signed legislation that will require public universities and colleges to survey students, faculty and staff about their beliefs and viewpoints to support “intellectual diversity.”

The survey will discern “the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented” in public universities and colleges, and seeks to find whether students, faculty and staff “feel free to express beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom,” according to the bill.

The measure, which goes into effect July 1, does not specify what will be done with the survey results. But DeSantis and Sen. Ray Rodrigues, the sponsor of the bill, suggested on Tuesday that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.

When asked, DeSantis didn’t name any instances of indoctrination — he says he hears “worries” from parents. But lack of evidence that legislation is needed to address a problem is no obstacle to DeSantis, who follows the Trump-GOP model of government by trolling. DeSantis couldn’t identify a single example of critical race theory being taught in K-12 public schools, or trans girls dominating girls’ sports teams, or widespread voter fraud. Yet he championed and signed legislation addressing all these fictional problems.

I’m not happy with my alma mater’s response to the latest outrage:

The University of Florida issued a statement that upheld the Gainesville-based school as a “marketplace of ideas where a wide variety of opinions are expressed and independent inquiry and vigorous academic deliberation are valued.”

“We believe the survey will reflect that, and we look forward to widespread participation across campus,” the statement said.

Maybe they felt like they had to say that since they’re probably in a shitty financial position after decades of budget cuts, followed by the pandemic, and have been implicitly threatened with further budget cuts. But I hope the students freep the living fuck out of that survey, at UF and every other state school.

DeSantis ran as a Trump acolyte to win the GOP primary but ran toward the center to get elected, which he did by a hair. When first in office, he did some non-Trumpy things, like increasing budgets to address environmental problems and raising teacher pay. I’m not sure exactly when he decided to stop governing altogether and commit to full-time trolling. Maybe it was the pandemic and the undeserved praise he collected from political gossip rags that credited him for Florida’s weather.

As I’ve mentioned, he probably figures Florida is getting redder, and the evidence of the last two election cycles bears that out. I keep hoping his full-time hard-right trolling will be a turn-off to voters, but I guess we’ll have to wait until next year to see if Florida has gone full Alabama.

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

118Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    June 23, 2021 at 12:51 pm

    Ron DeSantis is scary. I wish he could be recalled. I have a nephew in Florida, other than that, I do not want to spend a penny in the state. Money is the only way out of staters can get back at this dictator type who likely wants to go national.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    June 23, 2021 at 12:55 pm

    Whatever the results of the survey, DeSantis can spin it to his advantage.  The only way to win is not to play.

  3. 3.

    Tony Jay

    June 23, 2021 at 12:59 pm

    So they want quotas in place for racists, homophobes and conspiracy theorists or they’ll defund children’s education?

    I think a pretty good advert could be cut by Democratic candidates explaining why this is bad.

  4. 4.

    Old School

    June 23, 2021 at 1:02 pm

    Theme parks will be exempted from having promote that it is not a small world after all.

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 1:04 pm

    @Tony Jay: The likely Democratic opponent in 2022, current Ag Commish Nikki Fried, had a pretty solid clap-back:

    ???? ????????????? ??????? ??:

    • Limit ideas taught in schools
    • Intimidate educators
    • Suppress votes
    • Ban protests

    ???? ??? ???????? ????:

    • See above https://t.co/b0JxiyWrCJ

    — Nikki Fried (@NikkiFried) June 23, 2021

  6. 6.

    Emma from Miami

    June 23, 2021 at 1:05 pm

    Well, that nails it for me. Once my father leaves this world, I leave Florida.

  7. 7.

    WaterGirl

    June 23, 2021 at 1:07 pm

    @Betty Cracker: That is most excellent!

  8. 8.

    Cameron

    June 23, 2021 at 1:07 pm

    I think the hard right turn started when he decided to run for President. This fascist stuff is red meat for the national right-wing audience.

  9. 9.

    WaterGirl

    June 23, 2021 at 1:08 pm

    @Emma from Miami:   I’m not sure which is worse – that they are not even hiding it anymore, or that there are a whole lot of people who are not horrified.

  10. 10.

    ian

    June 23, 2021 at 1:10 pm

    if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.

    The definition and goalposts of ‘indoctrinating’ will be moved according to need.

  11. 11.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 1:12 pm

    @Baud: Even if every response is “other” and the “please explain” box says “Fuck Ron DeSantis”? (Just speculating here; I have no idea what the format for the loyalty survey will be.)

  12. 12.

    Baud

    June 23, 2021 at 1:15 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Those responses prove indoctrination!

  13. 13.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 1:15 pm

    @Cameron: You could be right. I keep hoping he’s overreached and will get clobbered for it next year. Florida is a weird place politically. We’re overdue for a correction. (Hope springs eternal and all that.)

  14. 14.

    MattF

    June 23, 2021 at 1:15 pm

    I’ve noticed that DeSantis gets major fluffing from the RW noise machine. I think the powers-that-be see him as a manageable and popular politician— in the TFG tradition and appealing to TFG’s fans but not actually a psychopath.

  15. 15.

    Almost Retired

    June 23, 2021 at 1:15 pm

    This is absolutely chilling.  DeSantis is like a cross between Trump and Putin.  I hope DeSantis’ growing profile will provoke some blowback from a jealous Trump, and undermine his standing with Greater Wingnuttia.  But I’m probably dreaming.

  16. 16.

    Joe Falco

    June 23, 2021 at 1:16 pm

    Is there something in the Gatorade in Florida that’s causing Republicans there to have their heads lodged inside their anal cavities? Just asking questions!

  17. 17.

    Emma from Miami

    June 23, 2021 at 1:16 pm

    @WaterGirl: ​I am a Miami black swan. Older, Cuban, very liberal. Being here has been painful. Leaving will not be.

  18. 18.

    gene108

    June 23, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    I would fill out my survey about how there’s no positive positions being taught about the benefits of Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei ideology. It’s total anti-NSDAP indoctrination all the time, and see if Republicans will get behind launching a pro-Nazi course, lecture series, or campus Nazi chapter.

  19. 19.

    Cameron

    June 23, 2021 at 1:21 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t know if I’ll be here to find out.  I have to move in a couple weeks and can’t find anything that I can afford.  May wind up back in Philadelphia (there are worse fates).

  20. 20.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    June 23, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    As I mentioned is a previous thread, so how long before DeSantis goes there and starts some CCP style social credit rating system for Florida residents?

  21. 21.

    TomatoQueen

    June 23, 2021 at 1:23 pm

    I am deeply saddened by UF’s complete collapse, and a little surprised, but then, I don’t know who owns them.

    Last night on public tv (how does this survive?) was a reshowing of an American Experience piece on Joe McCarthy, with full biography, much resurrected footage and much context that normally you don’t see in shorter documentaries. Owen Lattimore, China scholar, gets more than just a look-in. This includes also a full treatment of that unspeakable scumbag Roy Cohn, as well as one Joseph Welch. Then, this today.

    There are too many damn coincidences lately.

  22. 22.

    eclare

    June 23, 2021 at 1:24 pm

    @gene108:  Don’t tempt them!

  23. 23.

    Mallard Filmore

    June 23, 2021 at 1:26 pm

    @gene108:

     

    I would fill out my survey about how there’s no positive positions being taught about the benefits of Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei ideology.

    “You have failed the DeSantis loyalty test. Funding for this school will be zeroed out in the next budget and the facilities will be turned over to Liberty University.”

  24. 24.

    Brachiator

    June 23, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    @Tony Jay:

    So they want quotas in place for racists, homophobes and conspiracy theorists or they’ll defund children’s education?

    You nailed it in one stroke.

  25. 25.

    Spanky

    June 23, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    I’m having a sandwich on multigrain bread, and half the seeds they sprinkle on top look like ticks, which of course fall off and disperse randomly on the counter and ??? I think I have tickbite PTSD.

    I mentioned last thread that my answer on the questionaire would be “Go fuck yourself”, but freeping it in a variety of other ways would be entertaining too, so long as we get to read about it.

  26. 26.

    catclub

    June 23, 2021 at 1:29 pm

    @Cameron: May wind up back in Philadelphia (there are worse fates).

     

    Unless you ask WC Fields.

  27. 27.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 1:29 pm

    @Cameron: It’s more affordable in the boonies, as I’m sure you know. But then you’d have to live in the boonies! It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. ;-)

  28. 28.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 23, 2021 at 1:29 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    My alma mater is USF. Do you know whether they’ve issued a statement yet?

  29. 29.

    gene108

    June 23, 2021 at 1:30 pm

    @gene108:

    A response would be like the below, to see how many Republicans bite to demand pro-Nazi ideology be taught:

    Despite its name, the National Socialist Workers Party, in Germany, a pro-business political movement founded in 1920 by Anton Drexler, who sought to restore national pride in Germany, after their crushing loss in WW1. In some ways, his goal was similar to what President Reagan successfully did in restoring our pride in this country after the turbulent 1960’s, the left wing overreaction to Watergate, and the liberal surrender in Vietnam. His political party had success in the 1930’s. They rebuilt German heavy industry, by supporting private enterprise. They built, what was then, the best highway system on the planet giving the similar boost to their automotive industry the President Eisenhower Interstate System has given America.

    Yet this political movement is constantly demonized by academics, the mainstream media, and popular culture.

  30. 30.

    leeleeFL

    June 23, 2021 at 1:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker: l have good feelings about Nikki Fried, she seems like a member of my Tribe.  I will send her some ducats, she will use them well, I think!

  31. 31.

    TaMara (HFG)

    June 23, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    @Emma from Miami: You have my deepest sympathies. Watching my younger brother slip from liberal, open-minded to Christian Conservative republican (now, libertarian) after he moved to FL has been devastating. When I found out my niece voted trump in 2016 I was crushed.

    And I get hives just spending the weekend visiting my family in NE.

  32. 32.

    JoyceH

    June 23, 2021 at 1:33 pm

    @Almost Retired: ​
     

    I hope DeSantis’ growing profile will provoke some blowback from a jealous Trump, and undermine his standing with Greater Wingnuttia. But I’m probably dreaming.

    I don’t think you’re dreaming and I think a Trump anti-DeSantis rant is more likely than not. After all, DeSantis edged him out in that straw poll down there – this cannot be tolerated!

  33. 33.

    gene108

    June 23, 2021 at 1:34 pm

    @eclare:

    Don’t tempt them!

    I know. Part of me is tempted to think there’d be enough pushback and/or historically literate people working for DeSantis and the Republicans in the state house to point out Nazis are bad, and unAmerican. We literally fought a war over it.

    The other part of me thinks so many Nazi sympathizers have wormed their way into the Republican Party that they’d welcome pro-Nazi courses with open arms.

  34. 34.

    leeleeFL

    June 23, 2021 at 1:34 pm

    @Joe Falco: Suffice it to say, I drink only filtered or bottled water and never walk outside without shoes. Can’t take chances with the crap in this place.

  35. 35.

    Cameron

    June 23, 2021 at 1:35 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Alas, I don’t drive, so if I lived in the boonies I’d wind up eating raw gecko and drinking swamp water.

  36. 36.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 23, 2021 at 1:37 pm

    So are these attempts to prevent indoctrination going to apply to All the Supply-Side Econ schools?

  37. 37.

    Anoniminous

    June 23, 2021 at 1:37 pm

    Doubt Florida will change until it stops getting a yearly influx of replacement old white bigots for the old white bigots who croak.

  38. 38.

    artem1s

    June 23, 2021 at 1:39 pm

    FL board of Governors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Board_of_Governors#University_campuses

    Tim Cerio; attorney
    10/27/2017 – 1/6/2024

    Aubrey Edge, President & CEO, First Coast Energy
    2/3/2020 – 1/6/2027

    Patricia Frost, retired school principal
    10/27/2017 – 1/6/2024

    Edward Haddock, lawyer & businessman
    11/24/2020 – 1/6/2027

    H. Wayne Huizenga Jr., businessman
    1/10/2013 – 1/6/2027

    Ken Jones, lawyer & businessman
    11/20/2020 – 1/6/2027

    Darlene L. Jordan, former attorney
    6/22/2017 – 1/6/2024

    Sydney Kitson, Chair, real estate developer
    6/22/2017 – 1/6/2024

    Brian Lamb, Vice-Chair, business executive
    3/29/2019 – 1/6/2026

    Alan M. Levine, President & CEO, Mountain States Health Alliance
    6/22/2017 – 1/6/2024

    Charles H. Lydecker, insurance executive
    6/14/2019 – 1/6/2027

    Steven M. Scott, physician and entrepreneur
    3/29/2019 – 1/6/2026

    Eric Silagy, President & CEO, Florida Power & Light
    3/29/2019 – 1/6/2026

    Kent Stermon, COO, Total Military Management
    3/29/2019 – 1/6/2026

    Richard Corcoran
    Commissioner of Education
    6/17/2019 –

    Will Self, Chair, Advisory Council of Faculty Senates
    8/1/2020 – 7/31/2021

    Ally Schneider, Chair, Florida Student Association
    6/1/2020 – 5/31/2021

    My bet is that Federal Guidelines are preventing DeSantis from awarding contracts to somebody on this list.

  39. 39.

    gene108

    June 23, 2021 at 1:39 pm

    @MattF:

    I think the powers-that-be see him as a manageable and popular politician— in the TFG tradition and appealing to TFG’s fans but not actually a psychopath.

    At the end of the day, the underlying tenet of Trumpism is that “the cruelty is the point”.

    There’s no way to embrace that without becoming a psychopath

  40. 40.

    leeleeFL

    June 23, 2021 at 1:42 pm

    I think awful pychopathy (?) Is a pre-req to join these days.

  41. 41.

    James E Powell

    June 23, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    I’m not sure exactly when he decided to stop governing altogether and commit to full-time trolling.

    Right after Trump lost, when he decided to run for president in 2024.

  42. 42.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    June 23, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    Am I wrong for the thoughts I’m having regarding DeSantis-voting olds (and really, any of his voters) and COVID in America’s wang?  I mean, the same stupid fucks who won’t vax are the same stupid fucks that will be all thoughty and prayery when Epsilon, Iota and Kappa start striking down a lot of saintly white haired drawling grannies….

  43. 43.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    June 23, 2021 at 1:44 pm

    @MattF: One of the things that TFG had that appealed to his base was not being a politician, these guys don’t have that.

  44. 44.

    OGLiberal

    June 23, 2021 at 1:49 pm

    I don’t live in Florida, go there rarely, and don’t know many people from there but my guess is that it’s getting redder because asshole racist old white folks from Michigan and New York keep moving to places like the Villages when they retire.  I don’t think the wingnut growth there is homegrown – the wingnuts there have been wingnuts for generations.  It’s because of the imports.  As a resident of the Northeast I say, “good riddance”.  Would love to never have to worry about FL again in presidential races – prefer to focus on states like VA (really don’t have to worry about that one any longer), NC, GA and TX – among others – where younger, not wingnutty people choose to relocate from deeper blue areas of the country.

  45. 45.

    Ruckus

    June 23, 2021 at 1:49 pm

    @gene108:

    The other part of me thinks so many Nazi sympathizers have wormed their way into the Republican Party that they’d welcome pro-Nazi courses with open arms.

    The point to remember is how much actual difference is their in the basic ideology of the two groups. My thought is that it’s not a lot.

  46. 46.

    Kristine

    June 23, 2021 at 1:49 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: My alma mater is USF. Do you know whether they’ve issued a statement yet?

    Another USF alum here. They were a commuter campus when I was there in the late 70s. Idk if that’s changed. A campus with a large percentage of older students may give different survey results.

  47. 47.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 23, 2021 at 1:50 pm

    I hope the universities all word their surveys in such a way that it complies while clapping back at DeSantis and the rightwing:

    “Have you ever felt that a professor might disapprove of political views such as communism or fascism?”

    “Have you ever felt punished or looked down upon for espousing a political opinion or example from conservative media in class? (Examples: Barack Obama was born in Kenya, Biden eats children, Michele Obama is secretly a transvestite)”

  48. 48.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 1:56 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Not that I know of; I think they’re all sort of under the gun! One thing I neglected to mention in the OP (that can be confirmed in the Herald article) is that the survey isn’t required to be anonymous. Schools should definitely step up and protect faculty, staff and students if the fascists try to make them put their political views on public record.

    @Cameron: Haha! That would certainly be true if you lived in my ZIP code, but there are some lovely small towns that are somewhat walkable!

    @OGLiberal: This is 100% true. We’ve always had Dixiecrats-turned-Republicans in the interior and Panhandle, but the state started turning redder when retirees from NY stopped flocking to South Florida and retired wingnuts from Ohio, Michigan, etc., started flocking to The Villages.

  49. 49.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 1:56 pm

    Are these motherfuckers all the reincarnations of Mikhail Suslov?

  50. 50.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 1:57 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: “Kamala Harris is the begotten daughter of Satan?”

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    @James E Powell: It definitely pre-dated Trump’s loss. I think it was around the time Politico and other gossip rags started throwing panties at him for weathering the pandemic so well last winter (i.e., governing a state that’s warm during the winter so the virus is less likely to be transmitted). DeSantis is a skilled media manipulator though. He got Trump’s attention by going on Fox and defending him, then parlayed the endorsement into a nomination, burying establishment Repubs along the way.

  52. 52.

    Bostondreams

    June 23, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    @gene108:

    Except apparently there is no requirement that these be anonymous. They had to make a statement that the survey will not impact tenure or hiring decisions. You don’t say that unless you get names…

  53. 53.

    Brachiator

    June 23, 2021 at 2:07 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Am I wrong for the thoughts I’m having regarding DeSantis-voting olds (and really, any of his voters) and COVID in America’s wang? I mean, the same stupid fucks who won’t vax are the same stupid fucks that will be all thoughty and prayery when Epsilon, Iota and Kappa start striking down a lot of saintly white haired drawling grannies…

    As is the case in many states, older people tend to get the message when it comes to vaccinations.

    In Florida, over 80 percent of the people between age 65 and 84 have received at least one shot. And for those over age 84, about 76 percent have received at least one shot.

  54. 54.

    geg6

    June 23, 2021 at 2:07 pm

    It’s going to be all MAGATs, all the time in FL if my friends are any indication.  One couple we are friends with are selling their condo, deciding that they don’t really live the snowbird life and that buying a place on the VA, NJ, MD or DE coast would be better as they could spend four or five months there, with their grandkids for a couple months since they won’t be in school during summer.  Plus a much easier commute to a condo or house there from here.  Also too, fewer MAGATs.  Another friend who owns a house in FL and usually spends five months there in winter is now cutting back to 2 1/2 months because that’s all she can take of the people there.

  55. 55.

    WaterGirl

    June 23, 2021 at 2:08 pm

    @TaMara (HFG): That is how I feel about my entire family in Colorado.

  56. 56.

    WaterGirl

    June 23, 2021 at 2:09 pm

    @Bostondreams:

    They had to make a statement that the survey will not impact tenure or hiring decisions.

    Oh my god, are we supposed to believe that?  Do they thing we are idiots?

  57. 57.

    Mike in NC

    June 23, 2021 at 2:11 pm

    I’m about midway through Michael Wolff’s “Siege: Trump Under Fire” and he relates how Steve Bannon thought the Orange Clown might not run in 2020 for health reasons, and Bannon was thinking about forming a new White Supremacist GOP ticket with Sean Hannity as his running mate. Problem was, Hannity was thinking that it should be the other way around. Too soon to guess which fascist will get the nomination for 2024. Tucker Carlson perhaps? It’s pretty clear DeSantis thinks of himself as the rightful heir to Trump’s golden throne.

  58. 58.

    James E Powell

    June 23, 2021 at 2:17 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    I was just being a smart ass. I don’t know anything about Florida politics except that I regard Florida politics and its impact on national elections with fear & loathing.

  59. 59.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    @WaterGirl: ​ They do, in fact, think we are idiots. Just like their base.
    They are of course, mistaken.
    (BTW, WG, I had to go to text mode to respond to you properly. Visual mode didn’t show the hyperlink to your post. Latest Firefox and Windoze 10.)​

    OK, update.  I just responded to Mike in NC, and could do so with the visual tab ruling.  So this is an annoying random thing.

  60. 60.

    kindness

    June 23, 2021 at 2:21 pm

    If we could somehow convince the poor and lower middle class to vote I suspect Florida’s government might be more balanced.  Sadly I have no idea how to make that happen.

  61. 61.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 2:21 pm

    @Mike in NC: DeathSantis DeRacist DeStupid demonstrated his totalitarian tendencies yet again by signing this obviously unconstitutional bill.

  62. 62.

    JoyceH

    June 23, 2021 at 2:21 pm

    @Mike in NC: ​
     

    Bannon was thinking about forming a new White Supremacist GOP ticket with Sean Hannity as his running mate.

    I would have loved to have been eavesdropping into the conversation when a political consultant explained to Bannon that if he actually intended to run for elective office, he should probably stop dressing and grooming himself like a homeless man.

  63. 63.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    June 23, 2021 at 2:23 pm

    I’d answer that the curriculum uses the most standard and approved texts which have been fact-checked by leading scholars.  Supplementary materials for U.S. History from University Presses in the South,  such as Louisiana University Press and University of North Carolina Press (Per my history undergraduate spouse, those two presses are the best and most liberal re the Revolutionary and Civil Wars).  See how Death Santis Shit-for-Brains handles that.  I know one science prof at Univ. of Florida — he specializes in post-Cretaceous animals, especially how they evolved to be large animals due to warmer temperatures (Global Warming makes for BIG BIG snakes and other reptiles, plus the E word).  He can’t be happy. My undergraduate and graduate degrees were in Art History, focused on Northern European Art of the 16th – 18th C.  Which means many, many nudes.  If Death Santis Shit-for-Brains comes for Art History, this means war (cue appropriate gif of Bugs Bunny sawing off Florida from the rest of us).

  64. 64.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 2:28 pm

    This railing about how stupid he is. . . stupid. The dude knows exactly what he is doing.

  65. 65.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 23, 2021 at 2:31 pm

    @Tony Jay: What happens when voters are perfectly fine with fascism because it’s their fascists?  I assume the majority of Floridian voters are perfectly fine with DeSantis shutting down speech of which they don’t approve.

  66. 66.

    eclare

    June 23, 2021 at 2:34 pm

    @raven:  I agree

  67. 67.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 23, 2021 at 2:35 pm

    @gene108: They’ll launch pro-Confederate classes which is pretty much the same thing.

  68. 68.

    eclare

    June 23, 2021 at 2:36 pm

    Colleges make a lot of money from out of state students.  I wonder what effect, if any, this will have?

  69. 69.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 2:36 pm

    @eclare: Now Kemp. . .

  70. 70.

    Elizabelle

    June 23, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    Biden is going to give a speech on gun violence at about 3:30 today.

    WaPost:  The Biden White House sees a political advantage in focusing on gun control as a way to stem the violence. The issue polls well among Democrats and independents, as opposed to stiffening sentences or backing aggressive policing tactics, policies favored by the right.

    Democrats are deeply internally divided over how to respond to the violence as it pertains to empowering police. Many in the party’s establishment political wing believe positions such as “defunding the police” hurt them in the 2020 election, while the left flank sees the crime wave as a potential obstacle to changing police practices. But they are unified in seeing tougher gun enforcement as a potential solution.

    “If you look at a number of cities across the country, it is actually driven by gun violence,” Psaki said, citing increases in shootings and gun crimes in St. Louis and New York. “And that will be a central part of what [the president] will talk about when he delivers his remarks.”

    Biden will direct the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to seek to revoke licenses from gun sellers the first time they are caught willfully selling a weapon to a person who is not permitted to have one, neglecting to run a required background check or ignoring a federal request to provide trace information about a weapon used in a crime. The policy attacks a source of crime guns, which in some instances can be traced to sloppy or irresponsible dealers, experts say.

    The president also wants to reduce recidivism by opening opportunities to those leaving prison, including hiring more of them in federal jobs and encouraging business to do so. Biden also wants to offer additional federal housing vouchers for them, according to administration officials.

    And Biden will allow $350 billion in federal stimulus funds to be used to pay to fund police departments in areas that have seen an increase in crime, administration officials said.
    …. [Psaki]  noted that he wants to “lay out a comprehensive strategy to address violent crime and gun violence” now, as the country moves into the summer months. Crime tends to increase in warmer weather, and experts say the lifting of pandemic restrictions could also factor into crime spikes in some areas.

  71. 71.

    FelonyGovt

    June 23, 2021 at 2:40 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Interesting, as a (long ago) native New Yorker the cliche was always that the older NY folks retired to Florida- and they were mostly Democrats. Is that less so now?

  72. 72.

    eclare

    June 23, 2021 at 2:41 pm

    @raven:  Which match are you watching today?  I’m watching France Portugal.

  73. 73.

    Almost Retired

    June 23, 2021 at 2:41 pm

    @eclare:  That’s a great question.  I just googled it, and a semi-reliable web site indicated the out of state percentage was only 3%.  That seems low, but I guess not atypical for large states (the University of California system is mostly locals as well).  And, I suppose if Florida is drawing from neighboring states, this requirement won’t be a deterrent.

  74. 74.

    Elizabelle

    June 23, 2021 at 2:42 pm

    @raven:   Max Boot agrees with you.  DeSantis does know exactly what he is doing with the constant bomb-throwing.  His WaPost column.  Its conclusion:

    Mask mandates. Vaccine passports. Voter fraud. Tech company censorship. Transgender athletes. Undocumented migrants. Critical race theory. DeSantis pushes every single right-wing hot-button issue. He understands how to demonize and polarize for political advantage — and he doesn’t care about how much collateral damage he inflicts. Little wonder he is being talked about as the front-runner for the GOP presidential nomination if Trump doesn’t run — and maybe even if he does.

  75. 75.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 2:42 pm

    @raven: ​
    In the case of COVID, he knows exactly what he’s doing, and it’s stupid, yet politically astute for currying the favor of the wingnuts. He’s condemning untold thousands to death, just like mass murderer TFG.

  76. 76.

    Martin

    June 23, 2021 at 2:42 pm

    Man, the willingness of states to destroy their higher education systems is impressive. Guessing we’ll be going on a recruiting run again (we got some good hires out of UWisc after Walkers idiocy) and good luck getting tech/engineering firms. More for CA, I guess.

  77. 77.

    eclare

    June 23, 2021 at 2:43 pm

    @Almost Retired:  Three percent does seem low.  But if so, that’s negligible.

  78. 78.

    Betty Cracker

    June 23, 2021 at 2:45 pm

    @kindness: That’s the eternal question, and I don’t know the answer either. But I think there’s at least a chance DeSantis’s wingnut TV preening will backfire in 2022. I could be wrong, but I don’t think most people are on board with this hard-right culture war bullshit.

  79. 79.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 2:45 pm

    @Martin: Sonny Perdue is in the running for Chancellor of the University System of Georgia.

  80. 80.

    Leto

    June 23, 2021 at 2:46 pm

    (WaPo) Nearly 900 Secret Service members were infected with the coronavirus. A watchdog blames Trump.

    Almost 900 Secret Service members have tested positive for the coronavirus since March 2020, according to a watchdog report, and many of those infected had protection assignments that included the safety of the president and vice president.

    The nonprofit Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington published a report Tuesday detailing how 881 Secret Service employees had tested positive between March 1, 2020, and March 9, 2021. The data, which came from a Freedom of Information Act request to the Secret Service, found that 477 members of the Special Agent division had been infected. Described by the Department of Homeland Security as “the elite agents you see protecting the President and Vice President,” Special Agents are also responsible for a number of safety assignments overseas and in the United States, such as protecting the president and vice president’s families, visiting foreign leaders and presidential candidates.

    CREW said it’s unclear “whom the special agents who tested positive were assigned to protect or when, exactly, they tested positive.”

    While the data does not give a breakdown of coronavirus infections between the two administrations during this period, the watchdog placed much of the blame on former president Donald Trump and former vice president Mike Pence for holding “large-scale rallies against public health guidelines.” The group also slammed the Trump family’s regular travel during the pandemic and Trump’s photo op last year outside Walter Reed National Military Medical Center “in a car with Secret Service agents while being treated for covid, further putting agents in danger.”

    “It’s impossible to overstate the risk the Trump administration put on Secret Service agents,” CREW wrote.

    Bolded part is mine; not sure why the writer felt the need to put that in considering for that time period Trumpov’s Admin was in power for basically 99% of it. One admin advocated for injecting bleach and sunshine up people’s asses, the other admin advocated for following science/medical advice. But sure, we don’t know the breakdown.

  81. 81.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 2:51 pm

    @eclare: I’m guessing that will be best but Amir of Tony’s take would be welcome. That Sweden-Poland game was a barn-burner!

  82. 82.

    JMG

    June 23, 2021 at 2:52 pm

    I will be seriously disappointed in our current crop of college students if 99 percent of their responses to this survey aren’t sophomoric efforts at dirty jokes. Oh, that’s too high. I imagine the right and left activists on campus will take the survey seriously, but very few others will.

  83. 83.

    Citizen Alan

    June 23, 2021 at 2:53 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    The question that keeps me up most nights is “How big can the percentage of U.S. citizens who would prefer to live under a white supremacist dictatorship get before democracy cannot possibly survive?” Because right now, at a minimum, it’s 1/4 of all voters.

  84. 84.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 2:53 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    “he doesn’t care about how much collateral damage he inflicts”

    Neither did Mao, Giap, Stalin or Hitler.

  85. 85.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 2:54 pm

    @JMG: Like the dude at Stanford Law.

  86. 86.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    June 23, 2021 at 2:54 pm

    @Almost Retired: I think the University of California, it would depend a bit on the campus, I think(and was my experience)  that UCLA and Berkeley would have more students from out of state or out of the country.  For example, he had a pretty good contingent from Hawaii at UCLA, many from a private school in Honolulu(I’m sure many from my class knew a thin black guy with big ears a year younger than them).

  87. 87.

    Martin

    June 23, 2021 at 2:55 pm

    @Almost Retired: UC gets more – depends on campus. Berkeley and UCLA quite a few undergrads, the rest not so much. We’re generally capped at 20% of seats for out of state/international, so what many of us lack in out-of-state we fill in with international. Mind you, these don’t offset the number of in-state seats we have which is set by the legislature. We have two caps – one in-state and one out-of-state that don’t interact.

    Bit different at the grad level. Lots of out of state/intl students. Same for at least some FL unis. UCF has a massive online masters population – most being out of state. Not sure those students will care though.

  88. 88.

    Martin

    June 23, 2021 at 2:59 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: We draw a lot from Hawaii. Guessing these days the fraction at Cal/UCLA is lower just due to more national competition, but the less competitive campuses get a lot from Hawaii because we draw fewer from the other states.

  89. 89.

    Jeffro

    June 23, 2021 at 3:01 pm

    @Cameron: I think the hard right turn started when he decided to run for President. This fascist stuff is red meat for the national right-wing audience.

    “You mean, instead of actually governing, I can film myself reading ‘The Art of The Deal’ to my young kids and ReQublicans will fall all over themselves to support me??? Seriously? Well, ok then – let’s troll!”

  90. 90.

    Steve in the ATL

    June 23, 2021 at 3:03 pm

    @Martin: you should have them bring a few million gallons of Great Lakes water with them when they come

  91. 91.

    Almost Retired

    June 23, 2021 at 3:05 pm

    @Martin:   Yeah, that’s true, California instate percentages are nothing like that 3% Florida statistic  (if it’s accurate).  By “mostly locals,” in my mind I was comparing it to my son’s out-of-state experience at the University of Arizona, which the California kids called “UC Tucson.” UA was super-dependent on out-of-state students, especially Californians.  Whereas here, the CA Legislature was considering out of state caps at 10% for the UCs, which the system itself was, understandably, resisting.

  92. 92.

    Jeffro

    June 23, 2021 at 3:05 pm

    @geg6:buying a place on the VA, NJ, MD or DE coast would be better as they could spend four or five months there, with their grandkids for a couple months since they won’t be in school during summer.  Plus a much easier commute to a condo or house there from here.  Also too, fewer MAGATs.

    This is me & Mrs. Fro’s plan down the road.  DE’s beaches are just great, and they’re in a true-blue state.

  93. 93.

    Almost Retired

    June 23, 2021 at 3:09 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:  Ha!  I had a big mouth opposing counsel who went to Occidental with the big-eared kid.  When the kid became a Senator, the guy mentioned that he knew who he was in college, but didn’t know him well.  By the time he became President, the story changed to “one of my closest friends Freshman year.”

  94. 94.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 3:10 pm

    @raven: ​
     That’s Max Boot as quoted by Elizabelle, not me, but it’s on target. Fire for effect.

  95. 95.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 3:11 pm

    @Almost Retired: We don’t call Knight U the University of California – Eugene for nothing, you know.

  96. 96.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    June 23, 2021 at 3:38 pm

    @Martin: When I was at UCLA, I think the largest out-of-state contingent was from Hawaii.

  97. 97.

    Almost Retired

    June 23, 2021 at 3:43 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:  There are at least three kids in my neighborhood in Los Angeles at UC Eugene right now.  To paraphrase a great philosopher:”When California sends its people, they’re not sending their best.  They’re sending some people that have lots of C’s, and they’re bringing those grades with them.  They’re bringing low SAT scores.  They’re bringing weed.  And some of them, I assume, are B students.”​​​​

  98. 98.

    Tony Jay

    June 23, 2021 at 3:47 pm

    @raven:

    I missed today’s earlier matches shuttling The Boy to Judo and then Beavers but followed them feverishly on the BBC. Every time I looked away Spain scored!

    Alternating between both of tonight’s games. Germany getting beat 1-0 by Hungary in the middle of a biblical downpour, which is good, because one half of the Optimum Draw requires it.

    Unfortunately the other half requires France to beat Portugal so Hungary finish 2nd and play England next round, but Ronaldo made it 1-0 from the penalty spot after the French keeper punched a Portuguese player.

    Oooooh, he’s given France a penalty.
    1-1!
    The game is afoot!

    ETA – Never a penalty, though. M’Bappe dropped for that.

  99. 99.

    HinTN

    June 23, 2021 at 3:48 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I live in the boonies and love it. There are drawbacks, however. I didn’t drive my car for a month (reasons) and some rodent ate the wiring harness.

  100. 100.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 4:01 pm

    @Tony Jay: Because of a savage post surgery attack I can’t sit, watch and type so I’ve had to just watch and not converse.

  101. 101.

    Uncle Cosmo

    June 23, 2021 at 4:06 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    @WaterGirl: ​ They do, in fact, think we are idiots. Just like their base. They are of course, mistaken.

    Of course?? A much smaller fraction of “us” are idiots than their base. OTOH, a far LARGER fraction of “us” are easy prey for panic, despair, weeping, whining, and/or outright catatonia. That’s why they have so much fun shitting on us – it’s so simple to get us to waste our energies in emotional tumult, when we ought to be gathering our powers and our courage to “take [figurative] arms against them/ And by opposing end them.”

  102. 102.

    Uncle Cosmo

    June 23, 2021 at 4:07 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Preying DeMantis.

  103. 103.

    J R in WV

    June 23, 2021 at 4:14 pm

    @Tony Jay: ​

    …after the French keeper punched a Portuguese player.

    Did the FR keeper get a red card after that, or a pay raise?

    ETA: Beavers? You got beavers in Britain? Is that like Cub Scouts? I was a Cub Scout…

  104. 104.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 4:19 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: Point well taken, and yes, Rose Twitter is a great place to whine.

  105. 105.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 23, 2021 at 4:21 pm

    @Almost Retired: If they’re bringing weed, they’re idiots, because weed is cheaper here and much more available.  Like every second storefront, it seems.

  106. 106.

    Tony Jay

    June 23, 2021 at 4:21 pm

    @raven:

    Because of a savage post surgery attack I can’t sit

    Damn man, you show one of those nurses so much as a flash of ankle…

  107. 107.

    Uncle Cosmo

    June 23, 2021 at 4:25 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: I assume the majority of Floridian voters are perfectly fine with DeSantis shutting down speech of which they don’t approve.

    Not to mention the vast majority of Italian-Americans nationwide, who for the most part have been just fine with fascism since it was invented in the Old Country a century ago. Once the drawbridge into the All-White Castle was lowered for them after WW2 and they were Godfathered into the fold, no ethnic group has labored longer and harder to yank it right back up after them and line the battlements with tommyguns and boiling oil to keep everyone still outside on the far side of the moat.

  108. 108.

    Tony Jay

    June 23, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Hold on, another penalty for Portugal… 2-2. We’re back to playing Portugal again.

    Anyhoo, the referee could well have got a red for that, but since it wasn’t Pepe he punched no wine and flowers.

    Yeah, The Boy is a proper little Beaver. He could have gone up to Cubs but with missing so much due to Covid they’ve let them stay in the messing around group a bit longer. He’s the kind of kid that, as soon as he gets into the crafts and tasks part of it he’ll stay in right up to Scouts.

    Bloody hell, Germany have scored, which means England will be playing them… shit! No, Hungary have scored again! It’s mental!

  109. 109.

    raven

    June 23, 2021 at 4:43 pm

    @Tony Jay: This seems to be related to opioids.

  110. 110.

    rikyrah

    June 23, 2021 at 4:53 pm

    @raven:

     

    This railing about how stupid he is. . . stupid. The dude knows exactly what he is doing.

     

    ICAM.

    Like with Dolt45, it’s DELIBERATE MALICE.

  111. 111.

    rikyrah

    June 23, 2021 at 4:55 pm

    @Leto:

     

    While the data does not give a breakdown of coronavirus infections between the two administrations during this period, the watchdog placed much of the blame on former president Donald Trump and former vice president Mike Pence for holding “large-scale rallies against public health guidelines.”

     

    What bullshyt. You know damn well when those agents were infected.

    And, sure, maybe they didn’t die…

    but, how many have health issues now because of COVID.

  112. 112.

    Tony Jay

    June 23, 2021 at 5:21 pm

    @raven

    Understood. Heal up, pal.

  113. 113.

    steve g

    June 23, 2021 at 5:45 pm

    I can’t seen Ron as president. His politics are sufficiently right wing, but he himself does not come across as a tough guy. He is very much the supplicant who needs a superior to rule over him. He’s happy when he’s with Trump! He doesn’t really know how to be the boss of people either. I don’t think he could survive a national campaign.

  114. 114.

    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937

    June 23, 2021 at 7:32 pm

    2+2=5.
    Don’t deny me my freedoms, man.

  115. 115.

    Uncle Cosmo

    June 23, 2021 at 8:48 pm

    @steve g: He is very much the supplicant who needs a superior to rule over him.

    Leonard Leo is available. Or whoever is crappo di tutti crappi amongst the vile bazillionaires who make up the Global Oligarchy Project. Keep in mind that’s what this is really all about –

    a custom-fitted endangered-species-skin bootheel to the face of anyone who isn’t a bazillionaire, forever.

  116. 116.

    PaulWartenberg

    June 23, 2021 at 9:14 pm

    Floridian here. UF alum here. This is all a fucking replay of the goddamned Johns Committee of the 1950s and 1960s that went after commies, gays, and “undesirables”. Our state-level version of the McCarthy witch-hunts that intentionally targeted and hurt people just for shits and giggles because the bullies wanted their pure conservative ideology dominating Florida forever.

    Read this from the Independent Alligator paper: https://www.alligator.org/article/2020/07/a-skeleton-in-florida-s-closet-the-johns-committee-s-history-at-uf

  117. 117.

    PaulWartenberg

    June 23, 2021 at 9:16 pm

    @TomatoQueen:

    the state universities are all screwed because the state lege can cut their funding in a heartbeat. Even a major school like Florida will get gutted to send a message in spite of how it will hurt our state’s national (and international) standing in higher education ranks.

  118. 118.

    Jamey

    June 24, 2021 at 3:28 am

    @Jeffro: Come to the Jersey shore. Help turn Ocean County blue!

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