I’ve been working so I haven’t been following the news, but I took a peek and it seems like there’s a lot going on.
What happened with Chauvin’s sentencing? I understand that he had his lawyer ask for probation. I hope that pisses off the sentencing judge.
I see that the DOJ suing GA.
Justice Dept. sues state of Georgia over new voting restrictions (Washington Post)
Justice Department officials announced a federal lawsuit Friday against Georgia over new statewide voting restrictions that federal authorities allege purposefully discriminate against Black Americans, the first major action by the Biden administration to confront efforts from Republican-led jurisdictions to limit election turnout.
The legal challenge takes aim at Georgia’s Election Integrity Act, which was passed in March by the Republican-led state legislature and signed into law by Gov. Brian Kemp (R). The law imposes new limits on the use of absentee ballots, makes it a crime for outside groups to provide food and water to voters waiting at polling stations, and hands greater control over election administration to the state legislature.
What else is happening?
Update from the comments:
DOJ has announced a task force to investigate threats against election workers. Some on legal Twitter think this is a bigger deal than the lawsuit against Georgia. (h/t Steeplejack)
Tsquared2001
The murdering cop’s mom maintained his innocence and never mentioned George Floyd.
George Floyd’s daughter said she missed her daddy’s help when she brushes her teeth.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tsquared2001: Both ultimately irrelevant to the process.
Omnes Omnibus
Apparently, the DOJ is planning on going after more states if Twitter isn’t lying to me.
Tsquared2001
@Omnes Omnibus: But the contrast was relevant to me.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: As you can see, I took note of your comment about no post in hours, with a lot going on.
Mart
@Tsquared2001: Floyd’s family misses watching him breath.
WaterGirl
@Tsquared2001: Still interesting!
Major Major Major Major
What else is happening? Samwise is being totes adorbs!
bbleh
Vance informs Trump Org that they are now the subjects of a criminal inquiry and may be indicted as soon as next week.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/nyregion/trump-organization-criminal-charges.html
VeniceRiley
UK Health minister Matt Hancock caught canoodling with an aide. Won’t resign. Where is Tony Jay, ffs?
MattF
Trump Organization lawyer says New York prosecutors could soon bring criminal charges against the company.
ETA: #9, also.
WaterGirl
I am very sad. As I was looking for the sentencing decision (which apparently isn’t out) I skimmed a headline that had the words “Chauvin”, “sentenced” and “life” and I was momentarily thrilled.
Turns out that “life” was “live”. So sad.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Omnes Omnibus:
DOJ has announced a task force to investigate threats against election workers. Some on legal Twitter think this is a bigger deal than the lawsuit against Georgia.
SiubhanDuinne
Sentencing coming down now.
Chief Oshkosh
Interesting opinion piece at TPM about AP’s Chief Congressional Correspondent and GQP stenographer Lisa Mascaro ([email protected]) repeating all of the GQP Senators’ faked outrage over somehow being hoodwinked into signing onto a two-part infrastructure deal. Sure seems like Ms. Mascaro is naive, or disingenuous, or just plain stupid. Maybe all three AND lazy.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breaking-ap-dragged-hook-line-and-sinker-in-gop-fishing-turney
Another red letter day for our DC press. Sure hope a robot doesn’t burn down their garages this weekend.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
It won’t be life. There are guidelines.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tsquared2001: Sure. But no one said anything surprising.
MattF
Chauvin judge is now speaking.
ETA: 22 years.
germy
WaterGirl
@bbleh: I had read that, and forgot! This really is a good news day. Unless the Chauvin sentencing is bullshit, in which case all bets are off.
WaterGirl
@VeniceRiley: Why should he resign if it was consensual?
Chief Oshkosh
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s the contrast. Which is poignant. This is a blog where we discuss many things, including poignant moments.
HTH. :)
SiubhanDuinne
22-1/2 years (270 months minus time served).
Edited.
Chief Oshkosh
@germy: The guy is a total sociopath. Should never be let out into the public again.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: Wonder if he’ll live that long.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
Prosecutor asked for 30. Chauvin wanted probation. Guidelines called for 12½ without aggravating factors.
WaterGirl
@Baud: There are guidelines for how cops get to treat citizens, too, and that didn’t matter.
But I take your point.
Mary G
@germy: If I was a member of the Floyd family, I’d be incandescent with rage at this statement. WTactualF???
WaterGirl
@Baud: What about WITH aggravating factors? Because they already ruled that there were some. All but one, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chief Oshkosh: I wasn’t objecting to discussion of it. But thank you for telling me how the comment section works. I’ll make sure I stick to poignant things in the future.
germy
@Chief Oshkosh:
Definitely.
Mary G
Lot of happy activists outside the courthouse.
ETA- Whoops. Reading comprehension fail and I missed SD’s post.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
That’s why he got more than 12½. There were some.
ETA: I’m not watching right now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Well above the guidelines. Must have recognized a bunch of aggravating factors.
Frank Wilhoit
@VeniceRiley: I’ve no doubt that Tony would say that Hat Mancock is beneath his notice.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Thanks. I had written that before seeing the 22.5 years.
Does that seem like a reasonable sentence to those of you who are attorneys?
12-1/2 would have left me in a rage. Is Chauvin maybe 30 years old? Getting out at 52 seems like he got off easy.
Nora Lenderbee
Thank FSM.
Mary G
@WaterGirl:
Nora Lenderbee
@WaterGirl:
He’s 45, according to Wikipedia.
germy
@WaterGirl:
Chauvin is 45.
Another Scott
@Chief Oshkosh:
Nobody knows the future, but…
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
I like that photo of Garland and the Badass Women.
persistentillusion
@germy:
Chauvin is anticipating getting shivved while incarcerated?
Mary G
WaterGirl
@germy: 67 years old then, I can live with that.
Let this be a cautionary tale to the cops who are still doing this. Will it be? That’s the question.
Martin
CA is going to pay off unpaid rent for Californians who make less than 80% of the median income in their area. Renters still need to pay 25% of what they owe by end of Sept. Eviction moratorium extended until end of Sept.
Brachiator
Some Covid news…
It is amazing that some Americans can’t do nuance. It’s either “masks hurt my freedoms” or “All clear! We don’t need no masks nowhere no how.”
H.E.Wolf
Poignards (to stick things WITH) get far too little mention in these degenerate times.
:-)
Ruckus
That’s about what I expected, didn’t think he’d get the 30.
Twenty in the can for a cop is a lot if memory serves.
Just as an aside I think we often give sentences that are too long in this country. And of course we often give special consideration to people who don’t deserve it, like cops that kill people, like this case could have been.
20+ yrs for a death under the cover of law enforcement seems about right to me. Especially as so many of these have gotten nothing at all, no charges or charges dismissed. Cops have to live by the law just like the rest of us, although they often don’t.
germy
germy
@persistentillusion:
I think ex-police are kept away from the general population. He’ll probably have his own wing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I agree. I said on a thread a few days ago that I think that sentences over should be extremely rare. This is one case where I don’t have an issue with it. Chauvin was in a position of trust and his actions took place over a long enough time that he had to have known and intended the result.
Baud
@germy:
Someone must not be polling well in his primary. He’s upping his game.
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: I’ve updated your dossier to reflect that you are now “open to taking direction”.
@Steeplejack (phone):
Someone is going to go all Jen Psaki on you
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t where you got the idea that this was an open thread.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud:
IIRC, Raven once saw them open for the New Riders of the Purple Sage at the Fillmore
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: At least that’s what he remembers.
Jay
@WaterGirl: the generally accepted guideline is that a direct report cannot give informed consent to a relationship, because of the power inequity.
You are not supposed to hit on a direct report, you are not supposed to hit on your boss, and if there is a relationship, both parties are supposed to go to HR ASAP and shift employment arrangements.
WaterGirl
@germy: Where Chauvin may well be revered for what he did.
Mary G
Judge’s sentencing memorandum (pdf) here
Can’t copy pasta, but four aggravating factors found in my shortened form:
Ivan X
@Brachiator: I’m more in the camp of damn I hate this fucking thing, CDC says I don’t need it? Yay, I’m not going to wear it beyond social norms and general politeness. Oh, new awful variant? Back on it goes, but I still hate it, and don’t want to be told that I’m being a baby about it or that I should feel differently than I do. I can do what’s right and necessary, but I’m not going to volunteer for more than that.
Betty Cracker
Someone made a movie that is set in my county for the first time ever. It’s called “Feral State,” and here’s the description:
LOL!
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: Oh, man, you are a harsh grader. I take note when someone says it’s a big news day and we haven’t had a new thread in 4 hours, and I get slapped upside the head for it. I will be taking note of that. harrumph! :-)
Cacti
He’ll be in special population with the child molesters.
Alison Rose
@germy:
“degenerate liberals”
new blog motto
Spanky
@WaterGirl: By the guards.
Chief Oshkosh
@Omnes Omnibus: Excellent. Glad that I could be of service. It gave my life some meaning this afternoon. ;)
WaterGirl
@Jay: I guess the word “aide” was doing a lot of work there.
Steve in the ATL
@Brachiator: I’ve got a union complaining that a client is about to relax its plant entry screenings and mask mandate for vaccinated people at a manufacturing facility. Same union complained about plant entry screenings and the mask mandate last year. And you wonder why union strength and membership is declining…it’s not just the republican legal assault on unions.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: So put him in gen pop where he is killed within a week? We shouldn’t be sentencing people to death unofficially – nor should we be sentencing people to be sexually assaulted fwiw.
germy
The look on Chauvin’s face when he hears the sentence:
Spanky
@Betty Cracker: So they’re modernizing Oliver Twist and setting it in Florida, eh?
ETA – Maybe they can cast tfg as The Beadle.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: I hope that last one:
Means that those 3 will get nailed to the wall. I want to feel sympathy for the guy where it was his first day on the job, but I don’t. It’s just not that hard to weigh this conundrum and come down on the right side of it.
“This guy is being murdered right in front of me, but gee whiz, , I don’t want to make a bad impression on my first day on the job.”
rikyrah
@Major Major Major Major:
Gorgeous
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Steve in the ATL: LOL
WaterGirl
@Spanky: And the other cops.
Steve in the ATL
@Betty Cracker: I preemptively rated it 10/10 on IMDB
Betty Cracker
@Spanky: There was a reboot of Great Expectations set in Florida, so there’s precedent!
Steve in the ATL
@germy:
“TFW you’re sentenced to 22.5 years for murder”
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: No, I agree with you on that. But it still burns me that he may seen as a hero during his 22 years, and might get to be king of the cell block.
I was just saying the other day that I cannot fathom how or why it’s common knowledge that people in prison will be raped and attacked, and we do nothing about it. How is that not cruel and unusual punishment?
WaterGirl
@germy:
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Something was done in 2003, although I don’t know how serious or successful it was.
Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003 – Wikipedia
Wapiti
@Another Scott: See, if we arrested and tried more criming police and put the guilty ones in prison, too, then Chauvin wouldn’t have to be in solitary. They could have an Incarcerated Former Police Officer section.
WaterGirl
@germy: @WaterGirl:
I did a double-take and had to look at the date on that tweet. Because that’s the exact same look he had on his face when the verdict was read at his trial.
Martin
Per a new Gallup poll, Americans are more likely to be socially liberal than conservative for the first time since they started polling the question in 2001.
Also, Pulse Nightclub site has been designated a national memorial.
Geminid
@Steve in the ATL: I read that last week a large meeting of Teamsters leadership resolved to organize Amazon. I’d be interested in your take on whether they can do it and what it would take, if you cared to give it.
germy
@WaterGirl:
Look at his eyes. He’s doing the math.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I had no idea. I wonder if it ever made any difference, even for a day.
Baud
@Martin: Nice. I wish we could take all the credit, but the social right hasn’t exactly been covering themselves in glory.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: “Stop, man imprisoned for committing a crime–doing that is a crime!” Surely at least 95% effective.
raven
@WaterGirl: What cell block do you think he’ll be on????
VeniceRiley
@WaterGirl: Because it not only violated both their marriage vows, it was against the very covid regulations he wrote! AND he ripped someone a big enough hole for violating when that other official spent a night at his lover’s place.
Dude should have a taste of the dog food he made and served to everyone else
PS thank you. We are in touch.
WaterGirl
@germy: He does look sad, as well as perplexed.
“This isn’t how it was supposed to go.”
I have to wonder if he believes he did anything wrong. Or maybe he’s like my cocker spaniel, who when getting in trouble for getting in the garbage always regretted that she was being scolded, but she never for one moment regretted having gotten in the garbage.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: As I have said before, most people don’t care. And even those who do put it on a lower tier than hungry kids and people with no healthcare. We don’t come off as particularly civilized.
ETA: You’ll note this blog very seldom discusses criminal sentences. We put people in prison for far too long in this country.
Steve in the ATL
@Geminid: I wish them the best as they tilt at windmills. Amazon is a company that absolutely deserves to be unionized, but IMO there is too much (1) general hostility to unionism in the US, (2) hostility to unionism in the “tech” industry, and (3) failure of unions these days to sell the benefits of unionizing.
I hope I’m wrong!
WaterGirl
@raven: I have no idea. But someone above suggested that former cops get their own wing, and I can imagine the aggrieved cops who are in jail may think they are the ones who have been wronged, and I can completely see someone like that being revered by rogue cops who believe they got screwed by the system.
What are you thinking?
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: I hope the scriptwriter remembers to change the names…
“Toliver Wist”
“Dartful Codger”
“the evil Nagif”
LOL
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus: seconded on both counts
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: bear in mind, of course, that prison guards are people who were unqualified to get jobs as cops. It’s not fair to have expectations of them!
Betty Cracker
Recently in Tampa, a 20 year old guy with no criminal record was sentenced to 24 years in prison for running over and killing a mother and her toddler daughter, who were crossing busy street. The kid was 18 at the time and racing a friend in a Mustang he’d received as a high school graduation present the week before. It was negligent and horrible and irresponsible, what he did. Two innocent people died. But he was a teenager, had no criminal record, and it was an accident. And that kid will do more time than Chauvin. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
James E Powell
@WaterGirl:
Are there stages of accepting responsibility akin to the stages of grief? He’s still in the denial stage. He has time for whatever stages that lie ahead.
WaterGirl
@VeniceRiley: Without having read any of those details, I had no idea.
I just get tired of the “morality” standards we have for politicians where it’s okay to take actions every day that hurt people, but are supposed to immediately step down because they had sex with the wrong person.
It seems hypocritical to me. But other than that, I can’t disagree with anything you wrote.
Steve in the ATL
@Jeffro: seriously? It doesn’t matter that he’s right–you CANNOT publicly agree with Omnes! Next thing you’ll be feeding gremlins after midnight….
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: It is barbaric.
This is who we are, but it shouldn’t be.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
It doesn’t make sense, but a lot of that is because different states handle crime differently. From what I heard on the news, MN has guidelines, and the sentence here seems to reasonably fall within them.
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: I was about to weigh in and say that I think a vote could turn out differently this time around, but then I realized there is some dictation I need to take, so I won’t argue with the labor attorney, who might just have a better feel for this than I do.
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: wow, that’s a really low bar these days.
Major Major Major Major
Here are some more pretty animals! For your Friday afternoon.
Suzanne
Lord, what a day.
TBH, I doubt that Chauvin survives his sentence. And it doesn’t bring me any glee or schadenfreude to say that.
raven
@WaterGirl: Well if he’s on a cop wing it’s pretty certain he’ll be feted but 22 years is pretty good regardless of what Rev Al thinks,
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: So which part should be changed?
WaterGirl
There are certainly reasons to be hopeful in a lot of the news today.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: No one should have a Gremlin – even ironically. They are horrible cars.
WaterGirl
@raven: I agree.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: I had no idea there was such a thing as curly pigeons!
JML
@Betty Cracker:
State laws and sentences differ for crimes. and the ability to manipulate charges is one of the reasons for systemic inequities in criminal justice.
for a 2nd degree murder conviction in MN, this is a pretty severe sentence, significantly higher than the “normal” guidelines.
And the reality is in a case like this: there’s no sentence that truly recaptures what was lost and brings total recompense for what was done. But he has been held to account for his criminal acts, wasn’t able to evade responsibility for what he has done, nor was he able to hide behind the badge he disgraced. It’s not enough…but it’s something.
Jeffro
@Steve in the ATL: stopped clocks and all that… ;)
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: I think 24 years was too much for the dumb teen.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: I totaled one . . . not on purpose. I hit a (parked) Pepsi delivery truck–it peeled the side off the car. And the driver of the truck got a ticket but I didn’t. (It helped that the cop who responded came down the street the same way I did and was similarly blinded by the sunlight that had blinded me.)
WaterGirl
@JML:
I just wanted to see that again. Well said!
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: Me neither! I did know about curly geese, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastopol_goose
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: a more creative society might find ways to have the teenager contribute (via payroll deduction/garnishment) to an educational fund for the next 30 years, and/or do public service (to include public speaking), or something. Something else. Maybe do a year and then all the other stuff kicks in. I dunno.
It wasn’t my wife and toddler, so it’s easy for me to throw that out there. But I like to think that if it had been, I’d still want something more productive to come out of that horror than the kid going to jail for two decades.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I agree with you, Betty.
Is the goal punishment, deterrence, or rehabilitation?
I think we need to figure that out, and redo our entire system.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: As a general rule, this country seems to be in the retribution camp.
jnfr
I am ready to be a degenerate liberal on Twitter!
But I do find it poignant that we still have hundreds dying of COVID daily, and they are nearly all unvaxxed people. It’s so unnecessary .
WaterGirl
What should the punishment be for a cat who intentionally and systematically knocks every piece of paper from a pile, onto the floor?
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl:
We studied this question in Criminal Law as 1Ls. There is philosophy and theory and intellectual thought and whatnot, but in reality it boils down to punishment.
ETA: or, as Omnes categorized it, retribution. But he was kind of cheating, because that wasn’t one of the listed options!
EagainTA: you caught that too!
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: a full-time job at the NYT
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s how it is in reality, but I think they pretend that it’s something else.
Also, I noted that retribution was not even on my list!
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Martin:
Thanks Obama
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: She’s so pretty, and she’s the only other female in the house – so I guess I am going to let her off with a warning.
This time.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Warehousing and punishing.
ETA: SAT word. Were you puzzled?
Degenerate Liberal of Twitter
@germy:
Thanks, J.D., for the new nym!
I’ll wear it with pride!
sab
Free market is awesome. $650,000 for a condo, and nobody checks to see if it is structurally safe? I live in (and love )Podunck , Ohio, and they check stuff all the time.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: bemused and bewildered.
@WaterGirl: @Omnes Omnibus: point being that “rehabilitation” was never a serious consideration.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed. But it was much more than him taking actions long enough to think about it.
StarTribune:
He deliberately murdered him and knew exactly what he was doing at the time. In cold blood. While wearing a badge, and “training” other officers.
People entrusted with positions like that have a special responsibility. He abused it and deserved a severe punishment.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Out of sight, out of mind.
Wapiti
@germy: …There’s going to be some other information in the future that would be of interest, and I hope things will give you some peace of mind. – Chauvin’s statement
I read that as an intention to suicide.
Mary G
@Major Major Major Major:
Plus, progress:
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Yes, the reason I mentioned the time involved is that it wasn’t something that took an instant like pulling a trigger. Once that is done it is done. What Chauvin did was something he could have stopped at any time. He did not. It made the intentional taking of a life more rather than less horrible.
Another Scott
@Ivan X: Some masks are much, much worse than others. NK95 masks (with the bird-beak shape) are quite comfortable (for me) and eliminate that “cloth is trying to waterboard me” feeling.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: omg
and nice!
Jay
@Wapiti:
I took it as a threat to the PD that he was going to dish dirt.
I have been reading “When Nobody is Looking”, a KNOCKla series on how Cop Gangs run LACounty Law Enforcement, as just another brutal criminal gang.
https://knock-la.com/lasd-3000-boys-2000-boys-aclu-lawsuit/
And have for close to 50 years.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
This is horrible and I do not know what a better sentence might be. But doesn’t this come close to “depraved indifference?” A reasonable person would understand that racing a car down a public street might put the lives of the public at risk.
And I suppose that younger people are often emotionally immature even though they are allowed to behave more like full adults once they reach age 18. Does that diminish responsibility??
Also, society must also speak for those killed, who cannot speak for themselves, and their family. Who was the mother? How old was she? How old was the toddler? What were they doing that day? What were their hopes and dreams?
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: What does 24 years accomplish that say 7-10 would not?
ETA: Aside from showing that we are “tough on crime.”
ETAA: Would it matter if those who were killed were really awful people?
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: It’s a battle, for sure. But the tide is turning, I think.
(via LOLGOP)
Cheers,
Scott.
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: I’ve mentioned before, that for a time many years ago my dear wife worked in a health care setting at a large and well-known prison and house of detention. She repeatedly said she trusted the inmates more than the guards.
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
Hugs and snacks?
Cacti
@Omnes Omnibus:
So, two lives should be worth no more than 7-10 years in your calculus?
You’ve been working as defense counsel a little too long, methinks.
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: Then they should stop pretending that it is, dammit.
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: Ella did that one best, of course.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: It’s what they do…
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: I had seen the first part of your quoted text, but not the second half. Reading that makes me want to vomit.
HinTN
@Steve in the ATL: Bring back Little Boots!
WaterGirl
@Wapiti: I couldn’t imagine what he meant by that, but your supposition could be a way to make sense of what he said.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cacti: No, I was asking what purpose is served by the longer sentence. But I really don’t think that simply locking people away for decades does any good in most cases.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator: I laughed.
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott: UPS is a curious case. Under its contract, drivers get paid the same rate regardless of location. This makes it very difficult for UPS to hire and retain workers in HCOL areas. They have tried to change it, but there are vastly more bargaining unit members casting votes from Mississippi, Alabama, Kansas, etc., than from NYC, LA, SF, etc., so they can’t ratify a contract that pays drivers a reasonable wage in HCOL areas.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: hippy.
WaterGirl
@Cacti: Two lives lost because of an irresponsible choice in an 18-year-old? It’s a tragedy, but I’m with Omnes on 7-10 being much more reasonable than 24 years. What’s the approximate age when the part of the brain related to decision-making matures? I think it’s later than 18.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: I had never seen that. Funny!
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
I did not say that the 24 year sentence was fair or that I necessarily agreed with it. I should have been more clear about that.
The guy may not have been thinking about consequences at all. He may not have been able to. The image of that hot car may have filled his head. It might be that in just a few years as he matures he would have an entirely different perspective on his life and decisions independent of being in prison. Maybe not. But I don’t know how you take that into account.
But the mother and toddler will still be dead in 7 years, 10 years, 24 years. Do we owe them anything?
Cacti
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree that our “corrections” system doesn’t actually rehabilitate anyone as structured presently. However, I don’t think a sentence of 24 years for negligently killing two people is unduly harsh as a maximum.
If he does the whole thing, he gets out in early middle age with plenty of life left to live. And that’s assuming he doesn’t make parole before that.
WaterGirl
@HinTN: OMG
That punishment would definitely not fit the crime.
Amir Khalid
My two cents worth: I read the judge’s sentencing notes,and didn’t come across any reasoning that I disagreed with. So adding a decade to the sentence suggested by state guidelines — and thus nearly doubling it — looks about right to me.
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: Interesting.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Just because I’m not going bald…
Ken
120?
Jay
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl:
That’s what I thought.
A very different look from when he was doing the murder.
MomSense
@Nora Lenderbee:
What??? Damn racism ages a person. I thought he was much older.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
apparently 25, or later. That’s the modern CW.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cacti: Then we disagree.
Cacti
@MomSense:
It’s the Darth Sidious/Star Wars thing.
Evil makes you ugly.
Cacti
@Omnes Omnibus: Like I said, defense counsel for too long.
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic:
yup!
@WaterGirl:
yup!
@Gin & Tonic: yup!
Steve in the ATL
@HinTN:
[vomit emoji]
Omnes Omnibus
@Cacti: I haven’t done criminal defense work in years.
SiubhanDuinne
@HinTN:
Please don’t say that.
Not even as a joke.
The Pale Scot
@WaterGirl:
There needs to financial restitution. Leave his family living in boxes under an overpass roasting sparrows on a curtain rod.
The point isn’t really going to sink in unless his family starts from GO
They’re white, the union will pony up, fuck ’em
Omnes Omnibus
@HinTN: Go home and sleep it off.
WaterGirl
@The Pale Scot: I am guessing that there can still be civil cases against Chauvin, correct?
MomSense
@Steve in the ATL:
Hahahaha!
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Yes. And the police department. And the city.
zhena gogolia
As the close relative of a murder victim, I can say that there is no joy or satisfaction in any of this for anyone, at least as I experienced it.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
No.
I think the person who inspired the Miranda decision was a decidedly crappy human being. But that had nothing to do with whether he could be fucked over by arresting officers.
Maybe it was a different Supreme Court case. But I appreciated the principle that justice should not depend on whether you think someone is a “good” person.
Geminid
@Steve in the ATL: I would like Amazon to be organized. The drivers at least can see the benefits of unionization from seeing their Teamster counterparts at UPS.
From what I’ve seen of UPS drivers in action, I don’t think the company would suffer. And I don’t think the stockholders would, either. In the long run they could be better off, so long as Amazon’s competitors are in the same boat. Amazon is on a path to becoming the largest private employer in the U.S., and it’s unionization would have have a signicant impact on working class incomes generally. A thriving working class would make for a more prosperous middle class, and then everybody would have more money to buy stuff from Amazon.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: a trailer park Fagin.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Omnes Omnibus: With you 100%. Not to mention the f’d up white supremacy behind so much of our criminal “justice” system makes me question the entire enterprise…
Prison should be used sparingly, and as a last resort. Instead we use prisons (and jails) as routine punishment for all sorts of “offenses” (including being charged with a crime and not having access to bail money).
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Prison does seem an appropriate punishment for killer cops though.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Good point. I hope everybody gets sued. Make it painful for all parties involved.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: the prefrontal cortex isn’t done cooking until age 25 or so and is involved in a lot of decision making. Iirc
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Betty Cracker: Congrats! We got “Mare of Easttown”, from which I learned that my county is a much more depressed and depressing place than I thought it was.
J R in WV
@germy:
J. D. Vance: Please eat a huge bag of poisoned salted dicks immediately, and die in a fire caused by those bad dicks. You are a horrible piece of shit who needs to leave this world immediately!!
I say this as a life long hillbilly who served in the military, graduated from a well regarded university, and worked to protect the environment for the vast majority of my career. While you left the mountains and worked to make money, for which, fuck you very much!!
I hope your grandma hated you and your life as an adult.
ETA: Also, Fuck you with a rusty fire rake for the rest of your sorry life ~!!~
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Thank you! I remembered the general principle, but not the part of the brain or the age. But I was pretty sure it was well over 18.
Jay
In the US, a lot of the law structure is borked. When you kill somebody in Canada, there are lot of graduations between accidental, and planned murder, with sentencing guidelines and court ordered other punishments to go along with it.
In most of Canada, the Mustang Kid would have gotten 5 years max, ( so 1 year in a minimum), mandatory counselling, driving ban for a decade, and life long fiscal responsibilities.
In much of the US, the Courts hands are tied by offence class, mandatory minimums, elected Judges, elected DA’s, and an institutionalized system of using maximum charges to force a plea, and avoid a trial. If the accused doesn’t take the plea, the DA has to go to court with the maximum charges, even if they aren’t warranted by the case.
StringOnAStick
Isn’t Chavin also going to be tried for tax evasion very soon? I recall reading something about approximately $400,000 in unreported income for him and his wife. He probably only got looked at hard enough to catch it because of murdering George Floyd.
Anne Laurie
@Betty Cracker: So… a documentary?
(Ducks swing)
Just put up a post on the Chauvin sentencing, if anyone wants a ‘dedicated’ thread…
Jay
@J R in WV:
don’t hold back, tell us how you really feel about the lying, sister shacking carpetbagger poseur.
Jay
@StringOnAStick:
apparently, there are also Federal charges in the wings over the murder.
StringOnAStick
@Jay: True. A lot of the mandatory sentencing issues here all got put in place as part of the panic over crime rates when Reagan was in power. It’s pretty obvious the social panic about crime was one of the first really successful modern conservative social manipulation ops. I recall lots of anger over “thieves getting off on a technicality”, and the media hyped it relentlessly. It led to, for example, a guy got life for a 20 gallon bag of ditch weed pot given to him as a joke, because of mandatory sentencing from the War on Drugs crap. I wonder if he ever got out, it was Kansas I think.
Another Scott
Every accusation against Democrats is a confession, Part MCMXXIV:
Cheers,
Scott.
evodevo
@WaterGirl: Yeah…usual figure is 25 for frontal lobe maturity…if my son is any indication, took at least that long…
The Pale Scot
@WaterGirl:
I guess. But I’d rather see it being a criminal penalty.
Just so the “well the civil trial has weaker standards” BS doesn’t emerge
Seize the house, clear out the bank accounts. Like I said, the union will cover it. At least according to every TV cop show for the last 40 years
WaterGirl
@The Pale Scot: I suspect they have been protecting assets, and hiding suitcases filled with cash, ever since Chauvin was arrested.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
Did he not understand that drag racing in a city is illegal? I bet he did.
In that case it was not an accident. He is a fault for the death of 2 humans. Now the point becomes that he has been tried and found guilty he has to be sentenced. The question should be, is 24 yrs the correct sentence. He’s 20 so 44 when he gets out, does he have any prospects to be able to lead any kind of life, starting at 44? Because if not he’ll be out and he’ll be relatively unemployable so what choices does he have, what will make him be a better citizen? So now the question is, if the 24 yrs is too long what is the correct term for killing 2 humans? What is the correct term for a cop for willfully killing someone, 22 1/2 yrs? What is the correct term for walking while black?
Our system is broken, it is not justice for someone to have been killed for being black and the cop gets off any more than it is for an 18 yr old getting 24 yrs for killing 2 humans. We need better guidelines for all the courts in the country. We need cops not to get off for doing what they wanted when it costs a life. We need better laws, better law enforcement, better court guidelines and not to give out 40 or 50 yr sentences for being black or poor or both.
@WaterGirl:
The goal of much criminal punishment in this country is none of that. And it should be all of it. Punishment, rehabilitation and deterrence.
Punishment – for doing something that obviously isn’t good for someone else.
Rehabilitation – to learn not to do that again or acts like that that hurt others.
Deterrence – to lower the general crime stats so that we don’t feel like we live in the wild, wild west where it’s everyone for themselves and fuck everyone else.
The Pale Scot
@Omnes Omnibus:
Basically, “you lost you’ve right to to live among people, and you have thirty years to think about that”
On the other hand, I am very pro flogging for white collar crime. No club Feds. Just 5 lashes in front of every victim. Like the the RN did for mutiny. Lashes aboard every ship in the fleet. People who have money ripping off the less sophisticated is obscene
Anoniminous
@WaterGirl:
“What’s the approximate age when the part of the brain related to decision-making matures?”
It utterly depends on the person. The usual rubric is a brain is fully developed at 25. But I’m sure we all recognize the relationship between fully developed brain and mature decision making is fraught.
Mary G
@Jay: I have always refused to live in a place where the LASD has the prime control.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yep.
I’d say 1st degree murder should have been the charge, but IANAFL in any state, let alone MN. And that would have meant an entirely different level of penalty, so I’m very likely wrong.
And I’m thinking this is a decent – respectable – reasonable sentence.
And as I’ve said our criminal justice system is fucked up in many ways and needs attention. Part of that is that the differences in sentencing for the same crime has way to much difference depending not on the crime but the alleged perpetrator, their color being a major one.
Ruckus
@germy:
He can’t be, his eyes aren’t closed and his fingers aren’t moving.
The Pale Scot
@WaterGirl:
Goofy costumes worn until they get the message
Ivan X
@Another Scott: yes, those are my preferred mask too, and they are relatively less uncomfortable than some. But I still hate them. Oh well.
Procopius
@Betty Cracker: I read somewhere that Darwin was particularly interested in pigeons, because they have more variation than any other species — more even than dogs.
Kayla Rudbek
@Major Major Major Major: how can those birds even fly?