Years before Florida condo building collapse, an engineer warned of ‘major structural damage’ https://t.co/4ReTiLnYu9
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) June 26, 2021
John D. MacDonald’s novel Condominum — which contains some memorable descriptions of dangerously shoddy construction fueled by political corruption and the greed of local developers — came out in 1977. Just before the Champlain Tower South was built (it opened in 1981).
Report from the AP — “‘Deep fire’ slowing rescue effort at collapsed Florida condo”:
A “very deep fire” hampered rescue efforts Saturday at the collapsed oceanfront condominium tower near Miami where authorities are racing to recover any survivors beneath a mountain of rubble, officials said.
Rescuers were using infrared technology, water and foam to battle the blaze, whose source was unclear. Smoke has been the biggest barrier, Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said during a news conference…
The news came after word of a 2018 engineering report that showed the building had “major structural damage” to a concrete slab below its pool deck that needed extensive repairs, part of a series of documents released by the city of Surfside.
While the report from the firm of Morabito Consultants did not warn of imminent danger from the damage — and it is unclear if any of the damage observed was responsible for the collapse — it did note the need for extensive and costly repairs to fix systemic issues with the building…
The report also uncovered “abundant cracking and spalling” of concrete columns, beams and walls in the parking garage. Some of the damage was minor, while other columns had exposed and deteriorating rebar. It also noted that many of the building’s previous attempts to fix the columns and other damage with epoxy were marred by poor workmanship and were failing…
Gregg Schlesinger, a former construction project engineer who is now a lawyer handling construction defect cases, said another area of concern in the report is cracks that were discovered in the tower’s stucco facade. Schlesinger said that could indicate structural problems inside the exterior that could have been critical in the collapse…
“This is a wakeup call for folks on the beach. Investigate and repair. This should be done every five years,” Schlesinger added. “The scary portion is the other buildings. You think this is unique? No.”
Abi Aghayere, a Drexel University engineering researcher, said the extent of the damage shown in the engineering report was notable. In addition to possible problems under the pool, he said several areas above the entrance drive showing signs of deterioration were worrisome and should have been repaired immediately because access issues prevented a closer inspection…
There's a saying in emergency management: The first 24 hours are the only 24 hours.
FEMA was ready to deploy to the condo collapse almost immediately, and included the crisis in its daily briefing, but didn't get permission from Gov. DeSantis to get on the ground for a full day. pic.twitter.com/rVmCN47sQJ
— Hannah Dreier (@hannahdreier) June 26, 2021
The latest from Reuters — “After Florida building collapse, authorities evacuate similar tower”:
Two days after the collapse of a seaside Florida building, authorities said they would help residents of a similar tower nearby evacuate as they examine it for structural flaws that might indicate a similar risk…
Burkett said he had no information to indicate the north tower had similar structural flaws. But he said the Federal Emergency Management Agency would relocate residents for several weeks to allow a thorough review of the property.
The evacuation is not mandatory, he said, but many residents are eager to leave…
Miami-Dade authorities have ordered a review of all other 40-year-old buildings in the county to ensure they had undergone an engineering assessment, as required…
UPDATE from Surfside, Florida today shared by Laurita from @WCKitchen team on the ground at the building collapse…We will be here every day & night to support the search&rescue and recovery efforts…Praying for all. #ChefsForFlorida pic.twitter.com/N9sgo2cwV5
— Please get vaccinated! Do it for the World please. (@chefjoseandres) June 26, 2021
dr. bloor
You couldn’t pay me enough money to live in a building put up in the Land of Hiaasen during the Age of Reagan.
dr. bloor
Also, too, “I’ll take unasked presidential debate questions during the 2024 election cycle for eleventy jillion, Alex.”
A Ghost to Most
@dr. bloor:
Not to mention on a barrier island.
HypersphericalCow
It’ll be interesting to see the final report about why the tower collapsed at this particular moment, and why, if they can even determine it. Probably a “Hair that broke the camel’s back” situation.
WaterGirl
Ya think?
WaterGirl
@dr. bloor: It would be a shame if this hurt DeSantis politically. //
NotMax
@dr. bloor
Galt Towers?
;)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Unconscionable. This needs to be a scandal
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@dr. bloor:
“Joe Biden has dementia and the southern border is being overrun! Don’t ask me why I, as governor of Florida, should care about the southern border, when a horrific disaster has happened in my state.”
Anne Laurie
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Look, over there! — a jackalope!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
Galtfell Towers!
NotMax
Rs in Congress and in Florida will any day now call for hearings to investigate the alliance between Antifa and the Mole Men of Lemuria.
M. Bouffant
Columns in the garage: Every significant SoCal earthquake has several apartment bldgs. w/ an underground, column-only-supported garage that collapsed. Fortunately, most of these are two or three stories, not 12.
The Lodger
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Gawlty Towers!
Mike in NC
@WaterGirl: A crying shame. Speaking of crybabies, the Orange Clown is holding a hate rally in Ohio someplace tonight. He’s planned a revenge tour against anybody in the GOP who voted to impeach his fat seditious ass. How in-character that is.
NotMax
@Mike in NC
Which raises the question of who is footing the bill? It goes without saying he ain’t.
bbleh
@dr. bloor: Lol ftw!
bbleh
@Anne Laurie: a BLM antifa jackalope! Crossing from Mexico! Using prayer rugs!
OzarkHillbilly
Not speaking to the specifics in this case, but as one who worked in the business for several decades, SSDD. Nobody does anything until they absolutely have to, and then they don’t do a dimes worth more than they absolutely have to.
E.
The attorney for the building’s owner seemed very confident they would be exonerated by the engineering report, which he stated contained no mention of problems. I am guessing it’s a mealy-mouth acronym salad that says nothing by saying everything, hence always satisfactory to all parties. I have in my former life litigated many such documents, and it’s awful.
Elizabelle
@OzarkHillbilly: Hi Ozark. What is SSDD? [ETA, I have a guess, same shit different day, but who knows?]
@dr. bloor: I am wondering if Carl Hiaasen will have anything to say. He’s retired; no longer writing his column, but this is right up his alley.
Ordered a copy of John MacDonald’s “Condominium” today. It keeps getting mentioned, most recently by our very own Anne Laurie above, and look forward to his take on SoFlorida’s developers.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Speaking of horrorshow open threads:
chrome agnomen
@bbleh: with cantaloupe sized calves!
Sure Lurkalot
https://twitter.com/FrancesWangTV/status/1408875558952394758
This Twitter thread gives details of many of the missing souls. It is heartbreaking.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Is that guy related to Michael Flynn?
dr. bloor
@Baud:
His brother, IIRC.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Elizabelle: I’m reading the ebook. Smooth as silk John McDonald prose, but mostly about what was financial fraud in 1977 (which in hindsight looks ridiculously cheap: monthly maintenance is going from $81 to $168!!!). But the engineer character’s speculations about the shoddy construction seem spot on so far.
Geminid
@Mike in NC: The rally is in a Congressional district west of Cleveland. Incumbent Congressman Anthony Gonzales was one of then ten Republican Representatives who voted to impeach trump. Challenger Max Miller worked for trump the last four years. His grandfather was an influential real estate developer and philanthropist in the greater Cleveland area.
Miller is somewhat of a carpetbagger. He grew up in Shaker Heights, and recently moved to the west side to challenge Gonzales. Some Republicans complain that Miller spends more time in Florida than his new home.
Anthony Gonzales is not going to roll over, and Miller will have to fight for this seat, trump endorsdment notwithstanding. I am interested in this primary race, as well as of those of other Midwestern impeachers Adam Kinzinger in Illinois and Fred Upton and Peter Meijer in Michigan.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Guess he’s more like TFG than anyone realized. That he delayed FEMA’s arrival is criminal.
TomatoQueen
John D MacDonald put a lot of Florida rants in Travis McGee’s mouth as well, in case your copy of Condominium is delayed.
Elizabelle
@TomatoQueen: I have not read the Travis McGee novels. I own a few found at book sales, but have not started in on them yet. Hear they are a treat.
debbie
@Mike in NC:
Northern Ohio, to support the RWNJ trying to unseat Anthony Gonzales (who voted for impeachment, I believe).
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Cutting Corners: The American Way!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@debbie: I don’t get why he’d do that. What does delaying FEMA get him?
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Y’all should definitely try the first link in DAW’s Flynn tweet.
I got a poodle in a chair. “Nothing to see here.” Hilarious. It’s like Amazon; you get a doggo photo when you hit a page that’s been taken down.
Doug R
@TomatoQueen: I went through the entire Travis McGee series-easier to remember if you’ve read a color.
For anyone getting into it-the stories can stand by themselves, but there is some continuity and the tone seems to get darker and more nihilistic as the books progress.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Who knows? None of these clowns should be in office. Their incompetence is staggering.
I believe that condo is where my grandmother used to spend her winters.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Elizabelle: OMG, did Flynn take that down? Or is someone amusing themselves?
Elizabelle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: The second link, with the date works.
Personally, I prefer the poodle.
Chetan Murthy
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I wonder also. I wonder if this is revelatory of character. That is to say, it’s the sort of thing TFG did, eh? When confronted with a real crisis, he flinched and reacted slowly, b/c he had to calculate the angle that was best for him (and in a real crisis, sometimes that’s not obvious) instead of the move that was best for the victims.
Not saying that that’s the explanation: just that, it would fit with what we’re learning about DeathSantis over the last year-and-change.
bbleh
@Dorothy A. Winsor: @debbie:
Agree with debbie: it’s not a cunning strategy; it’s simple self-centered stupidity.
For all the hype, DeSantis is kind of a Pence-like character: incompetent and personally unlikeable. He may be a little better playing to the truly deranged wing, but then, look where he lives.
Mallard Filmore
There are some good comments over at an emptywheel posting
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/26/the-miami-collapse/
Joey Maloney
@Elizabelle: The Travis McGee books haven’t aged particularly well, especially WRT McGee’s attitudes towards women – and I say this as someone who has read and enjoyed and reread them since they were originally puublished. To MacDonald’s/McGee’s credit his failing is generally condescension rather than hostility – he genuinely likes women though he tends to view them as wayward children, unequipped to make their way alone in A Man’s World.
That said, the books are a vivid portrait of mid-20th-century Florida in all its corrupt glory.
OzarkHillbilly
@Elizabelle: You got it.
Ruckus
M. Bouffant
The one building with the most deaths in the Northridge quake in 1994 was a 3 story built over a parking area and all three floors were situated on the pillars. When the fire department arrived they at first thought it was a 2 story building without underground parking because all they could see was 2 stories and some rubble.
boatboy_srq
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): FL’s COVID tally – both the numbers and the flagrancy of the methodologies causing the obvious undercount – has been out there for months. Insufficient scandal from that yet. This is nothing in comparison.
Elizabelle
@Joey Maloney: Thanks. I think you have to consider works of art/literature in the context of their time, and opening a time capsule, of sorts, can be informative. Sometimes appalling.
Watching the original Perry Mason series, and looking at the role of the women (other than Della Street) — horrifying. Accessories; most dependent on men; a few heiresses. Constrained choices. And you don’t see any African Americans for several seasons; there are a few Asians, and a relatively early episode built around a Japanese (?) family. Several plots with European refugees; people who fled WW2.
But the role of women has changed so much, in our lifetimes. Which is fueling the counter-revolt among the traditionalist/dinosaur set. Grab ’em by the …
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle:
Left you a suggestion downstairs about your Big Sur problem.
TomatoQueen
@Elizabelle:
@Doug R: For a secret treat, the whole series in order is the way to read them, you see stuff ripped from the headlines as Travis evolves farther away from convention, while showing you why. And is there a better sidekick than Meyer? He’s half the fun. Some truly foul villains, and a portrait of South Florida as it went dark in the ways that John D cared about. There was a commemorative plaque at Bahia Mar put up just as we were leaving for the other coast. Slip F-18 is or was a piece of bronze on a wall. A side rant and weird and fun about Florida, without Travis but with plenty of smash-the-greedheads is “The Girl, the Gold Watch, and Everything,” which was adapted as a tv movie very badly indeed. Oh wait, Travis’ martini recipe–lemon peel, squeezed carefully onto the surface of the gin so the oil drops float.
CaseyL
“Florida” and “crooked builders” go together like PB & J. Florida is a state built on land scams.
When Hurricane Andrew laid waste to South Florida back in ’92, entire housing developments discovered their roofs were tarpaper stapled to plywood. They made the discovery when every roof in the development blew off and flew away.
The information on the construction of the condo tower may be a catalog of substandard materials, or substandard workmanship, or (at best) a building design not equipped to withstand the wind, sand, and salt water it was continuously exposed to.
mrmoshpotato
@Anne Laurie: “NO BUILDING COLLAPSE! NO BUILDING COLLAPSE! YOU’RE THE BUILDING COLLAPSE! YOU’RE THE BUILDING COLLAPSE! SAD!”
jl
Thanks for info. I heard news reports about locals angry that search for survivors was not more aggressive. I wondered about that. But a fire down in the rubble would explain it.
” and should have been repaired immediately because access issues prevented a closer inspection… ”
Unbelievable. And two years later, repairs were just beginning? Did they ever get access needed to determine the true extent of the damage?
mrmoshpotato
@Mike in NC:
How unlike the Kremlin’s orange fascist shitstain.
Chetan Murthy
@mrmoshpotato: I can imagine that in the first hours, DeathSantis’ people were thinking “oh, maybe there weren’t many people trapped; let’s wait and see if the emergency workers can pull out most of them” and only after it dawned on them that even the rescue was going to be a long slog (partially b/c they’d not bothered to get FEMA in quickly) they flipped and let FEMA in.
Which is, in a way, just what Shitler did. I feel like this is a pattern in the way that salesmen approach actual execution tasks.
WaterGirl
@debbie: It is. Just appalling.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: Thank you!! Checking it out now.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: I guess this a matter of sensibility and point of view. I thought The Rainmaker (1954) was a wonderful movie. My friend Joan could not get past the male/female roles the story is premised upon. I would say that it’s her loss, but I am not sure this is so.
jl
@mrmoshpotato: I choose only top buildings, the best buildings… but there’ve been some mistakes. I’m disappointed…. I’ve never met this building, don’t know who it is.
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Ummm….were those words written by an oxydumbass?
By the way, your next novel should have hundreds of pages as the introduction and say, 5 pages as the actual story. Makes sense? Right?
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Elizabelle: Spoiler alert: a hurricane shows up in the last part of the book and it doesn’t go well (for the condominium and basically anyone in the book nearby)
My big takeaway: hurricane parties are not a good idea, especially near the beach where the hurricane makes landfall.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
In answer to your question, in the last post that Steeplejack sent you to I gave you the places to click to show the web addresses.
frosty
@Doug R: Pale Gray for Guilt was my favorite, because McGee’s friend Meyer helps him set up a con on the developers who killed his friend; cleaning them out.
debbie
Speaking of horrorshows, Tuck may be losing another sponsor soon:
Dorothy A. Winsor
@mrmoshpotato: I wonder who actually writes this crap. I suspect it’s not a professional writer.
I mean, they didn’t need anyone with expertise on tallying elections, so why change now.
debbie
@bbleh:
And DeSantis leaps ahead of Kemp in stupid:
Sure Lurkalot
@WaterGirl: And yet, DeSantis’ approval ratings were +15 in polls last month. It’s beyond comprehension. I have no expectation that his delay in having FEMA help will make a dent. He’s already shown his constituents who he is and they like it.
Steeplejack
@frosty:
I just got back from Wikipedia, checking to see if Pale Gray for Guilt might be a better alternative to Condominium. It’s probably not, for the specifics of this real-life case, but I do think it’s better as an overall view of Florida real-estate developer corruption (from a ’60s perspective). It is possibly my favorite Travis McGee novel—extremely well done in a series that is well done. Ninth book, published in 1968.
Anne Laurie
You know Meyer was supposed to be MacDonald’s tongue-half-in-cheek version of John D. MacDonald?
(Been many years since I read the Travis McGee series, but I still have & love a couple dozen of his ‘potboilers’. Books like All These Condemned, Cancel All Our Vows, Contrary Pleasures, April Evil — they’re *extremely* of their era, but allowing for that, gripping reads. Not to mention his late-period take on then new-and-novel megachurches, One More Sunday…)
mrmoshpotato
@Chetan Murthy:
Quite possible with a pile of shit who let (is letting) COVID-19 ravage the state.
So glad we kicked Illinois’ most recent Rethuglican “governor” to the curb.
mrmoshpotato
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan):
Ummm….like greeting committees but for deadly weather systems?
Martin
@M. Bouffant: Five over ones are very popular to build now. If the concrete platform is accommodating retail or something like that they tend to be pretty decent (if unattractive) but if the the platform is parking because it’s impossible to live without a car in most of the US, that’s a different matter. The need to accommodate vehicles usually compromises the building a fair bit. Also exposes it to more corrosion.
We know how to build these well – tons of cities are full of 19th century buildings that are all structurally sound a century later.
krackenJack
@M. Bouffant: Yep. First thing I noticed from the pictures was the parking under the remaining tower. Soft story construction is the villain in every CA earthquake risk story.
JaneE
There is probably more than enough blame to go around. Every one of the houses I have lived in have had problems that really should not have been there at all. I don’t know if there was any bribery or corruption or just shoddy inspection.
Possible design flaws. Materials past their lifespan. Slow maintenance. Possibly even climate change raising sea levels and increasing water penetration under the foundations, or just ordinary Florida limestone dissolving. And some straw that broke the camel’s back.
The Pale Scot
Poor workmanship? In Florida? Gott Himmel! How?
Ex: Lee Roy Selmon Expressway
That’s propaganda, I remember this. All the support pillars had to be replaced because they were made with substandard concrete. The stories friends of my family tell about trying to get a house built would be hilarious if they weren’t so gobsmaking, like the goings on at the hotels that were built during the Russian Olympic
Add: It took a contractor 3 tries to order the correct length of steel support beam, the first 2 beams arrived on the site, didn’t fit. Can I Haz tape measure?
FlyingToaster
@Elizabelle:
I just checked (and I’d literally never started up Safari since upgrading to Big Sur) and the rollover problem is not in Preferences. You still need to do that stuff before:
Select Menu “View → Show Status Bar”.
Heh.
Rocks
@jl: I think the building went out to get us coffee once in a while.
Steeplejack
@TomatoQueen:
You just reminded me that I bought some gin today. I have been wanting a martini for a while. Off to make one in a minute.
I agree that reading the Travis McGee novels in order is the way to go, but I admit I’m a bit OCD about that with all crime fiction series. I haven’t read any of them in probably 20 years (at least), but I think they will probably be very much “of their time” but still hold up pretty well. As Joey Maloney said at #43, McGee’s attitudes toward women are a little old-fashioned, but it’s not toxic sexism; it’s more of a “white knight” attitude that might chafe a bit (or a lot) now.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mallard Filmore:
Some very good comments, well written so the total amateur at this (moi) can understand them.
I was reminded about the key plot point of The Towering Inferno, which was that the developer skimped on the architect’s specifications, and said everything was up to code. “Code’s not good enough for this building!” was Paul Newman’s response to William Holden, the developer.
raven
Just for you (listen if for nothing else Elvin Bishop’s axe)
My woman says it’s a dog gone shame the way some men bring their wives money and furs and jewelry and I come home, ain’t got a dime and smellin’ like a brewery
I’m drunk again, I’ve been been drinkin’ Gordons gin
Elizabelle
@FlyingToaster: That’s it! It’s the status bar. Much obliged.
Thank you to all who responded. I am not sure about Big Sur — what do you think, Toaster?
Villago Delenda Est
@debbie:
Ron DeathSantis is the Mikhail Suslov of 21st Century America.
tybee
@E.:
single sided, double density
StringOnAStick
I think I read that it had taken 3 years to get the condo owners to agree to starting the suggested repairs, which sounds like typical HOA entropy in my experience. We bought a condo once and will never do that again; hidden information about structural problems that the then current board kept out of the meeting records so a third of them could sell before they had to disclose it. We bought and a few months later it started trickling out. I got on the board to help and after realizing we were looking at a special assessment of $10k each, another guy got elected with his sole purpose being obstruction; we had the hire security to be at the board meetings because he was so volatile. He came very close to clipping me from behind with his big truck while I was out riding my bike. Eventually he was recalled and removed from the board, and I spent endless hours with the restoration company fixing all the structural issues from 20 years of swelling soils and the penniless HOA choosing back then to stay that way and ignore it all. It became a full time and fully UNcompensated job.
The work finished, we bought a house and moved, and I will never, ever buy a condo again. Since the remaining residents refused to build up a reserve account it has become a place where wealthy parents but a unit for their college kids then sell as soon as they graduate since older condos are financial hot potatoes. Too bad; it’s a great location and could have been a worthwhile investment. I
So when people ask why it took so long to get from that engineering report to actually starting what was going to be expensive work with no guarantee it won’t get a whole lot more expensive, all I can say is I’m not surprised at all.
rikyrah
@Sure Lurkalot:
??????
Martin
@debbie: Getting some Khmer Rouge vibes off of the Florida GOP here.
NotMax
Tangentially reminded of the (dated but not mortally wounded thereby) B film Private Information.
“If the cracks in the wall get any bigger we’ll have to do something.”
(Took substantial hours to dredge the movie’s title from the morass of memory.)
The Pale Scot
@Chetan Murthy:
Ex-D: Boris Johnson, not-managing the UK into irrelevance.
Steeplejack
Hitchcock’s Rear Window starting at 10:15 EDT on TCM. Grace Kelly never looked more radiant.
dr. bloor
@Steeplejack:
She also never looked less radiant. Kelly was steady-state radiant.
NotMax
@The Pale Scot
GreatSomewhat Good Britain.“Talk of the ‘imperial decay’ of your invalid port. ‘Its gracious withdrawal from perfection, keeping a hint of former majesty withal, as it hovers between oblivion and the divine Untergang of infinite recession.'”
– Stephen Potter
;)
debbie
@Martin:
I just hope the DOJ has enough staff to sue all these idiots.
The Pale Scot
@debbie:
I always describe myself as a neofacisti anarchist. When asked to elaborate I say I’m for a vast array of regulation that are ignored, or, a few simple laws that all have the death penalty. This allows for a huge political opinion envelope that frustrates MAGATs to no end
ArchTeryx
@Villago Delenda Est: That was a major plot point in one of the novels it was based off of, The Glass Inferno, as well.
Steeplejack
@dr. bloor:
True. But certain moments really stick with you.
Benw
@raven: I’d never heard of Elvin before this video but he rips!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–AvCsh48bk
MagdaInBlack
@Benw: * gasp at “never heard of Elvin Bishop” !! ??
zhena gogolia
@Benw:
You never heard of Elvin Bishop?
zhena gogolia
@MagdaInBlack: GMTA
NotMax
@NotMax
While Potter was speaking of wine, it’s kind of neat-o how a different definition of port now fits as snugly.
;)
Anotherlurker
@Benw: Elvin is still playing! I saw him and his “Big Fun Trio” at Yoshi’s, in Oakland. He can rip it up with the best of them!
ian
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Anyone who believes a firm named Cyber Ninjas conducted a valid audit 8 months out of date was probably going to vote Republican already.
I laughed hysterically when I heard the name of the firm way back in January. How in the world did they think undecided voters would be swayed by “Cyber Ninjas”? It is red meat for the base, nothing more.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@bbleh: & ebola crossed with the rona from the wuhan infectiousdisease research institute!
(jon stewart is vindicated.)
NotMax
@ian
“We’d have released our results sooner except the people compiling them kept spontaneously combusting.”
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Dorothy A. Winsor: if it was good news for el jefe, they would have announced before his ohio rally.
MagdaInBlack
@zhena gogolia: To be fair, he did say “before that video” so perhaps I should let go of my pearls ?
Benw
@MagdaInBlack: @zhena gogolia: Yikes! I’m sorry! :)
Yeah I came up through the 80’s metal/hardcore scene, so I never heard of him until that George clip I posted!
Benw
@Anotherlurker: Damn that’s cool.
FlyingToaster
@Elizabelle: I bought my MacBookPro in January loaded with Catalina, and Big Sur has not been the adjustment I feared (Catalina already precluded several of my old apps, alas). But I wouldn’t dare try to put it onto an older laptop (like my 2 year old MacBookAir, which is now the out-of-house laptop).
You may want to hit a Genius Bar to see if there’s something whack going on with your battery. Or if you’ve got some ‘ware running that you really don’t want/need/know is there. I once spent 8 hours with Activity Monitor hunting down an unwanted add-on.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
June 28th chosen to take the shine off Ukraine Constitution Day?
Or to compete in distastefulness with INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY?
;)
TomatoQueen
@Steeplejack: I think John D wanted to write a character of whom he could say somewhere that a certain kind of woman is half in love with him & as that wasnt unusual in that era thanks at least in part to Ian Fleming it’s probably forgivable. There’s the aspect of self-flagellation to demonstrate vulnerability too, which sometimes is persuasive, but sometimes just makes my teeth ache. He also does a little bit with strong independent women from time to time, just not often enough, and they do wind up dead quite often. A mixed message & how we fall out of love with him. He’s at his best making martinis and explaining boat maintenance.
L85NJGT
Another Scott
Cheers,
Scott.
RepubAnon
@StringOnAStick: As I’ve said before, our politicians in Washington are all intelligent, public-spirited and selfless people.
If you don’t believe me, go to a board meeting of a homeowners association…
Suzanne
@M. Bouffant:
YEP. It’s called a “soft story” in seismic design.
There is significant engineering work that can be done to provide lateral strength to these buildings, but that costs money.
I am interested to see what the forensic report indicates and to see what changes will come to the building code. Every major building disaster has brought some expensive changes.
Elizabelle
@FlyingToaster: Thank you. Yeah, think it might be good to get the battery checked.
Suzanne
@JaneE:
Honestly, this. Buildings are really expensive to maintain, and more owners than not do it badly.
I have worked on projects with engineer’s reports similar to the one described. The buildings are occupied and/or in use when they come in to observe (NOT inspect, which is a different legal standard), so damage that is hidden from view isn’t documented. So the engineer takes a bunch of pictures of a bunch of cracks, and basically says, “Uh, dudes, this is a problem and needs to be repaired”. But no one can know how bad it is until they close the building down and do destructive testing. So, yeah, the engineer doesn’t really know, and the building owner doesn’t know.
I worked on a project that required demolition of a one-story concrete masonry building that had asbestos in the vermiculite insulation in the cells. So the insulation had to be removed and abated before demolition, so the asbestos contractor made these vertical slits in the CMU. When they did that, we found that there was not a single piece of horizontal reinforcing in those walls. A bad storm could have taken the building down, if the conditions were right. But there was no way to know by looking. They saw cracking stucco over the years, which they repaired and repainted.
Steeplejack
@TomatoQueen:
Heh, I was thinking it but didn’t want to say it!
One thing I have to remind myself occasionally about these classic series is that they didn’t start out as masterpieces. (See also Ross Macdonald’s Lew Archer novels.) MacDonald came out of the pulp tradition and was no doubt just trying to make a buck when he started the McGee novels. He published the first four all in 1964 and two more in both 1965 and 1966. He took a breather and then published Pale Gray for Guilt in 1968, and I think that was an inflection point. After that is was one book every year or so, which is what we tend to think of as a “normal” schedule for a crime writer.
So, in that context, McGee’s more retrograde traits make a bit more sense. To me, at least. As I said, very much “of their time.”
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
@Suzanne: It should also be remembered that parking structures are exposed to the 90% of the public that consider themselves above-average drivers but are not. Most definitely not.
Suzanne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Not how it works. Code is all that can be legally enforced. And it is unlikely that there were code problems with this building, since code compliance of design is pretty strictly reviewed. HOWEVER, after a Certificate of Occupancy is issued, there is significantly less oversight. There are often all kinds of changes made to buildings, and inspections done after occupancy are pretty cursory.
Steeplejack
@Suzanne:
What is “CMU”?
Suzanne
@Ken: Parking structures are also not considered to have a high Seismic Importance Factor, so they can be somewhat less resilient than, say, a power plant or fire station or hospital. For example, they don’t usually do base isolation on parking garages.
Suzanne
@Steeplejack: CMU = concrete masonry unit. What civilians call “cinderblock”. But CMU can be many other colors and sizes and styles than just the cinder gray you’re picturing.
Steeplejack
@Suzanne:
Thanks.
Yutsano
@Suzanne:
We’re still talking about Florida right? Nahgunnahappen.
EDIT: I absolutely value your insight and knowledge here. I just think too many Republicans are in the way of any meaningful change.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Suzanne: The reason the “soft story” at Northridge Meadows was such a killer is it was only half of a “soft story”, the other half had apartments.
BeautifulPlumage
FUCK IT’S HOT
We Seattlites are not set up for 100 degree weather … with 111 now forecast for Mon ?
Suzanne
@Yutsano: It might surprise y’all to learn that the building code is mostly the same in different states. Most states and municipalities adopt one of the International Building Code editions, and then make a few tweaks, and then that entire document (Code + amendments) is then given the name “California Building Code” or whatever. But probably 98% of it is the same. So even if Florida doesn’t adopt any changes, the International Code Council (who writes it) may do so. We’ll see. The forensic report will be critical to understand if the failures were design, construction, maintenance, or if there was something truly unforeseeable at play.
SectionH
@TomatoQueen: My reaction to a woman who gets involved with Travis McGee is very similar to my reaction to a Star Trek redshirt (basically “Run!” At least in theory the woman could run, the Redshirt has to follow orders, but you Know that woman’s gonna die by the end of the book, just like the “Captain, I’m too young to die” unlucky redshirt.)
SFAW
@tybee:
Wow, haven’t seen that descriptor in awhile. I expect you’ll next regale us with tales of a 25 MB 14-inch Winchester drive.
Joey Maloney
Before the thread dies entirely, I also want to say that the final Travis McGee book, The Lonely Silver Rain, is an amazing capstone for the series and elevates it far above its pulp beginnings. MacDonald takes McGee on a journey back from the nihilism that creeps into the later books in the series, to a place of hope and optimism while being absolutely faithful to the characters.
Steeplejack
@Joey Maloney:
I need to reread the series, because my memory is that it flagged a bit at the end. But I don’t remember anything specifically about The Lonely Silver Rain. You’re adding to my motivation.
For a long time there were rumors that MacDonald had written a finale for the series, supposedly titled Black Border for McGee, to be published after his death. Nothing ever came of it, but I sometimes expect to see a “Now it can be told!” article pop up somewhere.
Feathers
@SectionH: Ah, yes, the good old Star Trek “kiss the Captain and you die.” James Bond and Travis McGee as well. “Angel with a broken wing” is what they used to call these heroines.
Read the Travis McGee series twice through. They really are great stories and great reads. Hold up if you know the tropes going in. I find myself wishing for books that reset with every new one sometimes these days. Having every book in a series opening with a chapter or two of acknowledging and detailing the trauma caused by the ending of the last book gets old fast. It can just feel so performative, knowing that the cycle is about to start up again.
Note: John MacDonald went to Harvard Business School, at his father’s insistence. He didn’t go into business, but his knowledge of money and how it works brings a matter of fact realism into all of his books. He knows what corrupt business practices are as well, and isn’t afraid to call them out. Lost my copies of the McGee books in a basement flood. I’ll have to see if the library has them.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Doug R: Although with The Loney Silver Rain which is the elegiac last book, he starts a new chapter in his life with the discovery of the daughter that he never knew he had.
WereBear
I agree, and as a giant fan reading them while I lived in Florida, I’d even give him more than that.
Uniquely for their time and a masculine series character, the women themselves are unique individuals. Sure, there’s a leggy redhead, and a petite blond, a lady with an hourglass figure, a waif who is a friend, and they are not all white (though his African American encounters are respectful though awkward.)
And they had professions they loved and were good at: designer, writer, artist, businesses from a media empire to a dress shop; plus they were shown as smart and a full range of emotions.
I know this is a dead thread but fairness compels me. Because I read a lot of garage sale bestsellers as a child, and this was the age of Robert Ruark.
Considered in context, John D. was a near-feminist.
Steeplejack
@WereBear:
Robert Ruark! Ugh. And, yes, to your point: MacDonald and McGee hold up much, much better than most of the stuff from that period.
As I have dipped in and out of this thread tonight, it has occurred to me that the Travis McGee novels are over 50 years old now, which when I was reading them would have been comparable to Golden Age stuff like Dashiell Hammett.
satby
@Steeplejack: A thread extolling the wonderful, though dated, John D MacDonald’s Travis McGee, yay! Read in the context of their time they are fine to me, as Elizabelle says, like a time capsule
And unlike the times, MacDonald’s women were sexually liberated and not penalized for it with the usual punishments for “fallen women”.
And what @WereBear says too!
VOR
@Suzanne: The 2007 I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis had two causes: a design defect and changes to the bridge over time. The bridge failed because the gusset plates were too small. But the bridge had been modified over the years, adding more weight. At the time of the collapse there was a considerable amount of construction materials sitting on the bridge.
The state DOT knew there were issues with the bridge, but the DOT commissioner opted for the least expensive option for monitoring the bridge. The DOT commissioner was also the Lieutenant Governor at the time. This was problematic because the governor was rumored to be a candidate for VP in the 2008 election and the Republican convention was held just a few miles away from the failed bridge.
Chris T.
@raven:
And how does Gordon feel about that?
(I bet this joke is ancient and moldy)
waspuppet
@dr. bloor: By 2024, the only political liability for DeSantis regarding this collapse among Republicans will be that he didn’t issue an executive order forbidding people in the other towers from leaving.
lowtechcyclist
I know it’s a dead thread, but:
The Florida Condominium Disaster 2021
“Or have they given up and all gone home to bed, thinking those who, once existing, must be dead?”
And I’ve enjoyed the John D. MacDonald/Travis McGee discussion, though I haven’t read any of his books in ~50 years. May have to rectify that.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: I tried reading The Rainmaker (the play) and I couldn’t finish it. Maybe Katherine Hepburn is actually able to spin some gold out of the “oh, I’m an ugly spinster who won’t be able to get married and have a Real Life as a wife to a Real Man!” straw of that particular story. But I don’t feel strongly enough about the effort involved to seek out the movie.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
OK, that’s really funny, thanks for the tip! Cute poodle, also too.
J R in WV
Regarding John D. MacDonald’s Travis McGee novels and the women characters, lots of those women were being mistreated/cheated/controlled by the bad guys in the plots. And Travis was frequently the knight in shining armor for some of those women.
And as others have mentioned, there were a lot of close friends, former girl friends, with vastly improved lives having been helped out a little bit by McGee. So I think for the period, very well done.
We have a ton of those novels in fragile paperbacks, along with Nero Wolfe stories beginning just after WW I — Manhattan was so different back then, and Stout’s treatment of the city that never sleeps is a great portrait. A great distraction from modern troubles!