Scorcher in Glasgow. Hope Sweden and Ukraine packed the factor 50. ? #SWEUKR #EURO2020 https://t.co/wgHauX0lYb
— Phil Gordon (@PJG_Sport) June 29, 2021
Sweden defender Lustig comes home to Glasgow to face Ukraine at #Euro2020
by @gdunbarap #SWE #UKR
https://t.co/HQcgn3juVW— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) June 29, 2021
Yesterday…
Spain beats Croatia 5-3 in extra time. #ESP vs. #CRO
Full story by @MattiasKaren: https://t.co/ec96YQORNY pic.twitter.com/1bs2kcfpBi
— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) June 28, 2021
Even the Swiss keeper was shocked to have won.
(He did come off his line a bit there…)pic.twitter.com/3NMNxoRzkN
— The Hoarse Whisperer (@TheRealHoarse) June 28, 2021
When a match ends 5-3 in extra time, 99% of the world can’t shut up about what a glorious affair it’s been.
The 1% is us, goalkeepers, who silently listen to pieces of our souls fizzle and dissolve in the boundless oceans of bubbling hate.— Slava Malamud (@SlavaMalamud) June 28, 2021
Matteo Pessina’s goal celebration becomes a sensation back in Italy.
Full story by @DaniellaMatar: https://t.co/YEkfP1cjJq pic.twitter.com/4bMX5iVFft
— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) June 28, 2021
WaterGirl
New soccer post is open for business.
piratedan
ahhh the virtual scenty goodness of a new thread……. enjoy you beautiful game aficionados…
LeftCoastYankee
It’s time for the tall blondes in blue and yellow versus the tall blondes in yellow and blue!
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I haven’t seen Ukraine play to date. For reasons of family heritage I’ve generally been pulling for Germany (mom’s side) and Sweden (dad’s side) though I will admit that Sweden’s style of play in this tournament has been pretty hard to watch despite its effectiveness so far. So far early in this one they’re generating more pressure than they have been though so maybe things are looking up.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
Also Germany’s defense has been atrocious so I am not exactly surprised that caught up with them today.
S. Cerevisiae
Gotta cheer for Sweden, I have cousins in the old country from dad’s side.
Tony Jay
Ukraine!
trollhattan
Holy crap, what a goal.
Leto
Good lord, what a strike!
eclare
Yay!
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
So much for that vaunted Swedish defense. Sigh. Total breakdown there.
TomatoQueen
Ukrainium.
Tony Jay
Patient build-up, lovely passing, great finish.
Got to say Id much rather face the team that could only beat the fantasy kingdom of Makedon in their group to the team who topped Spain’s group and didn’t lose a game.
LeftCoastYankee
That was a great chip pass by Yarmolenko. Thunderous finish by Zinchenko.
Gin & Tonic
Слава Україні!!
Leto
Personally I’m pulling for Ukraine just as a repudiation of Putin/Trumpov, and as a country that’s trying to free itself from the shackles of Russia’s orbit. But as long as it’s a good game I’m happy for either side.
eclare
@Leto: Same here.
Leto
@Tony Jay: the ESPN announcers have been laying out some interesting facts: the man who scored Ukraine’s first international tournament goal (Euro 2012) is their current head coach. Also if it wasn’t for Sweden winning their final game, Ukraine wouldn’t have made it to this match. Ukraine is trying to not repay the favor :P
Gin & Tonic
@Leto: Some funny memes going around Ukrainian social media a few days ago thanking Sweden for getting them in the round of 16.
trollhattan
We have a game.
Leto
Good night, that deflection! Sweden has been building with constant pressure and it finally pays off.
eclare
We got a match!
LeftCoastYankee
Yup. This is good. More please in the second half.
burnspbesq
No deflection and that’s a routine save.
JML
I have no rooting interest in this one, but I’ve enjoyed watching both these teams play. I’m still staggered by how well Sweden defended against Spain in group play, but Ukraine has been fun to watch too.
I do like the fact that every Ukraine win grinds Putin’s gears a little more, but I think Sweden is probably the superior team? I feel like Isak has a signature moment coming that could be the difference-maker.
Tony Jay
@Leto:
Shevchenko, isn’t it? The deadly striker who’s point blank failure to score against Liverpool in extra time in 2005 made us finally believe the Miracle of Istanbul was going to happen.
Then Chelsea bought him and he annoyed me no end. 8-)
Gin & Tonic
@Tony Jay: Yes, Shevchenko.
Leto
@Tony Jay: the -enko’s have had a pretty good tournament so far (realizes about 90% of the team is an -enko :P)
burnspbesq
Sweden has a couple of exciting young guys. Isak, as noted above, and Kulusevski looks like the genuine article.
And they have an Everton goalkeeper, which makes them a team of destiny.
Gin & Tonic
The goal posts are having a good game too.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Thrifty Scots will be complaining about all the fresh dents in their uprights.
Leto
Isak so close!
@Gin & Tonic: You mean… the woodwork… *dodges Amir
Steeplejack
@Leto:
? Just about to say the same.
LeftCoastYankee
@burnspbesq:
So what happens with Olsen vs. Pickford? Aside from Evertonian nirvana. :)
VeniceRiley
@Tony Jay: I snickered at these MOTM rankings at bottom: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51198606
Leto
Man, from one end to the next; game is def picking up in intensity!
Leto
FORSBERG DENIED BY THE WOODWORK, AGAIN! Froze the keeper and everything; Lordy!
Cmorenc
Within the Euro competion between national teams, there is also a subterranean competition among referee crews fir survival into being assigned further games and further levels of knockout rounds. Of course there are now VARs watching over decisions if the in- field refs, but i am instead referring to the intense postgame review and assessment critique of the ref crew’s decisions and performance after each game by an expert panel. One substantial mistake – eg missed offside call on a sequence resulting in a goal – and the entire three (or four) person crew goes home. These post-game assessments are done face to face, and are high-anxiety events for the refs under the microscope.
There is a video available on youtube called “kill the referee” that follows this assessment process from the inside at euro 2008, in which the crew lef by Howard Webb (later to center a world cup final) was bounced from further euro 2098 because if such an error by one if his ARs. Fortunately for Webb, his own performance in that and many other games was good enough that it didnt cost him from being selected for WC 2010.
JMG
@Cmorenc: IMO the officiating in this tournament so far has been of very good quality.
trollhattan
I can’t be the only one noticing how many Gazprom ads are being displayed with Ukraine on the pitch. “Bear pokes man.”
Leto
@Cmorenc: The NFL, MLB, and NBA do the same thing. The NFLs Super Bowl crew is typically made up of the best refs from various crews. I think it’s an great thing as it tends to deliver a more consistent match for players/coaches and the viewing audience.
Tony Jay
@VeniceRiley:
How dare those voters not recognise the multifarious wonderousness of ENGLAND’S HARRY KANE and all his works. He got ‘his’ goal, didn’t he? It only took him three matches in which 95% of his time was spent jogging around and falling over.
Honestly, when in form he’s a fantastic player, he’s just not in form. I don’t think teams win Tournaments while carrying ineffective goalscorers.
Leto
@trollhattan: I’ve noticed that for the entire tournament. CREAM and all.
Leto
@Tony Jay:
Is that due to age? The pandemic? Not enough playing time at the club level? Combination of the three?
VeniceRiley
Would they miss the wood if you hypnotized all the players into believing that only hitting it will count as a score? Good lord.
Yellow Cardigan is quite the influencer this match.
Tony Jay
@JMG:
The quality of refereeing seen at this tournament, and especially the quality and speed of the VAR reviews, makes me cry for the Premier League.
This is how it’s supposed to work. This is what it looks like when people who know what they’re doing and don’t care about showboating use the technology.
The Premier League doesn’t have that. It has a bunch of dodgy pedants spending chunks of games manipulating frames of camera coverage in order to find an angle that supports whatever decision they think will help ‘the brand’, and as a result English football fans are overwhelmingly anti-VAR, even though it’s not the technology’s fault it’s being misused by muppets.
Rant Over.
tl:dr – I agree with you!!
cope
@VeniceRiley: When I was coaching high school boys, one version of a scrimmage we used was that goals only counted if they hit the crossbar or an upright.
Leto
@Tony Jay: the NFL, back in the 80s/early 90s, had a similar problem. Games would grind to a halt as ref’s spent forever looking at replays for all sorts of shit. Then the NFL got rid of replay entirely for about a decade. After the shitshow that also produced, they brought it back in a more limited form (only 2 challenges allowed per game. If you challenged twice, and got them both correct, then you’d earn 1 extra challenge). It’s def helped keep the flow of the game moving, while also providing a bit “drama” over whether some calls should be challenged.
I but understand if the PL is totally bonking it with their VAR handling that fans will be pretty upset with how it’s being used. Like you said, and many of us have observed, this tournament has been really good overall wrt refs/VAR. Hopefully the PL can fix their issues
Edit: I don’t believe MLS uses VAR, and I think they really need it.
Tony Jay
@Leto:
I dunno. He did pick up an injury for Spurs (that happens a lot) and never really looked back to his best after his return. A lot of that was put down to the malaise Emourinho brings to every club he manages and the soul-destroying collapse of the house Poch built from Champions League finalists to Top 7 contenders, but really he might just have lost the legs you need at this level. He looks sooooo slow.
I mentioned it in the last football thread, but just before he scored ‘his’ goal there was a passage of play where he was fed around the halfway line, acres of space, Sterling racing up the right channel, Grealish up the left, he had his choice of which one to pop a forward pass to before bombing up the middle to get in the box…. so he turned around and passed it backwards. Like he thought, “I can’t get up there in support so what’s the point?” I really just think he’s lost his pace and is a drag on the team.
burnspbesq
@LeftCoastYankee:
Joao Virginia, our U-23 keeper, contemplates a future elsewhere.
JMG
@Tony Jay: He has been far from his best in this tournament, I agree. But he did lead the Premier League in goals and assists this year for a team falling apart around him, so I wouldn’t say this is an irreversible decline. Even the best have slumps in every sport.
Tony Jay
@Leto:
Yup. Tournaments like this make it absolutely clear that the problem isn’t with the VAR technology, it’s with the way it’s used and some of the bonkers rule changes it’s used to enforce.
To put it another way, VAR mastery is a solved problem, you actually have to work really, really hard to fuck it up as badly as the Premier League has.
Leto
@Tony Jay: it’s hard for people, especially athletes, to accept that they’re no longer on the level they need to be. Especially at this level where, I’m sure if he had better passing/distribution skills, he could be a possession player dictating the flow of the game. But as you said, instead of moving it forward he played it back. Personally I find that an indictment of most of the top level play as the propensity to back pass is near 100%.
Tony Jay
Jesus Christ that was a horrible challenge. He’ll be lucky if his knee isn’t dislocated.
See? This is what VAR is for. And that’s bad news for Sweden.
Leto
Oh man, I think this Swedish defender is going bye bye; yup, out comes the red. Oh man. Bad, bad challenge and off he goes. Case where the ref spent .00005 secs looking at VAR and was like, yup, you gone!
trollhattan
Sweden retreats to bunker, crosses Swedish fingers.
Leto
@Tony Jay: extremely dangerous play; not playing the ball, nowhere near the ball, and you’re correct: hopefully the Ukrainian’s knee is ok. They’re icing it atm but man, such a bad challenge.
cope
Knees aren’t supposed to bend that way. Sure looked like an ACL injury to me.
Leto
@cope: Yeah, he’s gingerly moving on the sideline but hopefully nothing permanent.
Leto
Oh man, off the side of the head. Potential concussion protocol invoked here.
Leto
Ukrainian player can’t even walk now, two man assist being used to help him get back.
Tony Jay
@JMG:
Very true. The thing is, people in slumps shouldn’t be consistently the first people on the team sheet for their national side when there are fitter and sharper options on the bench.
@Leto:
Agreed, that’s why it’s the manager’s job to make that decision for them.
Tony Jay
Both teams look utterly wasted. If there is a deciding goal before penalties it’s going to be due to a mistake.
LeftCoastYankee
Kane has a history of getting ankle injuries, and coming back too soon from them.
And because he’s ENGLAND’S HARRY KANE, if he can play he must start and play the whole game.
There’s usually a 3-4 week period each season where Spurs fans watch him wandering around like a stiff for 90 minutes.
Leto
He should be glad it was called offsides, because he shouldn’t have missed that.
VeniceRiley
Just saw the photo of that red card tackle. made my nethers wince.
Now I’m rooting for a UK Uk Quarter!
Leto
Defender took a knee to the head. Hope the dude’s ok. I could’ve sworn that the concussion protocols dictated that you could sub a player if that happened? Guess I’m wrong about that.
billcinsd
@Leto: MLS does use VAR and have implemented it reasonably well. Certainly much better than the Premier League, but that is not the highest bar to bet over.
Personally, I don’t much care for VAR. The thing I like best about soccer is the free-flowing action that VAR tends to kill. I really don’t think that correcting a “bad” call, 1 call in 20 checked calls, is worth the loss of dynamism. Throw in the stupid crap about not calling off sides until after the play is over and to me VAR is pretty useless.
Tony Jay
@VeniceRiley:
‘Er Indoors came downstairs just before half-time. I warned her it was horrible, but when they showed it she nearly threw herself behind the couch.
cope
Wow…
Leto
OMG! Such a beautiful goal! Great delivery, beautiful header… poor Sweden. They gave it their all.
Tony Jay
Ukraine winner!
And it’s time for the sports bra!
trollhattan
‘Ats-a spicy meatball.
VeniceRiley
There it IS!!!! Well done you ‘crainans
With an assist by Zinchenko, my man, who has been playing the whole match.
Argiope
@Tony Jay: I really need an explainer for that. Is it a moobs thing?
Tony Jay
Bloody hell. England v Ukraine at the weekend.
Though with all these injuries we could well end up playing the Ukrainian camp’s catering and medical staff.
Tony Jay
@Argiope:
I’d like to think he’s just being the person he feels himself to be. 8-)
But probably it’s a sports-science thing.
trollhattan
@Tony Jay:
Speaking of, the kid got a selfie with Brandi Chastain at SFO after they were on the same flight from Germany, following the 2019 WWC. Said she was super nice, which seems apt.
A soccer girl dream.
Leto
@billcinsd:
VAR doesn’t kill that, players diving/trying to call fouls for any tricky-tacky touch does that. There’s more stoppage from players falling down at the slightest touch than from VAR checks. I’ve played too many games against those flopping assholes and it’s shit. It’s why, personally, I can’t stand to watch Latin American leagues/COPA competition. It’s why the Naymar rolling everywhere meme was so prevalent for so long.
It also goes back to what Tony and I were saying: this tournament has been really good about VAR usage. It’s also about consistency with officials. If you have consistent officials, who establish themselves early on, matches are typically better for everyone involved.
Ken
@Argiope: Probably Cockney rhyming slang. “Sports bra” somehow becomes “champagne toast”.
Gin & Tonic
Again: Слава Україні!!
Leto
@Argiope: players wear a piece of kit that houses a gps unit under their jersey. They use that gps device to track performance, but it’s held in this sports bra looking top.
Edit: the gps unit is on the players back, just below the neck/between the shoulder blades. It’s pretty small but a really good performance tracking device.
trollhattan
@Argiope:
IIUC it’s how they wear the little gizmo used to track the distance run and field position of each player. They have these things called heat maps that break down each player’s match movement. It’s a little spooky TBH.
Argiope
@Tony Jay: right you are on the sports science thing, says the google. But I’m trying to imagine the locker room scenes the first time this tech was introduced.
VeniceRiley
@Tony Jay: And Dovbyk got a Yellow Card for celebrating by removing his shirt. That’s rather harsh after such a long hard fought match.
Leto
@trollhattan: Yup! You can essentially recreate the match, but look at specifically where players are on the field, you can measure their speed/output, all sorts of things. I got a chance to talk to the Philly Union coaching staff about it two years ago.
Tony Jay
@trollhattan:
She of the classic celebration? That was the first WWC I’ve watched and it was excellent entertainment. The US team were clearly a cut or ten above everyone else out there. Proper footballers.
VeniceRiley
@Leto: Saw a brilliant youtube compilation of rediculous flops and dives. The acting is incredible; but yes. Very very annoying.
Leto
@VeniceRiley: it is. It’s also why I tend to watch the women’s game more now. It might not be as fast/powerful, but they’re very technical, they stay upright, and it’s a joy to watch
Edit: there’s been at least two cards for flopping, so far, in this tourney. It was in the first round matches, but I think it sent a good message to everyone else. Ofc there’s still “drawing penalties”, but it’s eliminated some of the more egregious performances.
trollhattan
@Tony Jay:
Yes, she’s the one.
Saw an interview with her in which she recounts the bra’s history post-WWC. First, it just went into the wash and back into her uni rotation (they’re not made of money, those soccer gals), then later she lent it to a sports museum for display and when that went under, she got it back and figured it warranted taking proper care of as a legit piece of sports history.
Tony Jay
@Argiope:
I’m sure they were all entirely grown up and mature about the whole thing. /s
@VeniceRiley:
Harsh, but them’s the rules.
Gin & Tonic
@Tony Jay: I don’t hold out much hope for the good guys, but some nevertheless. See you in Rome.
billcinsd
@Leto: I would probably accede to constant fouling is a problem, but generally there are fewer actual dives than VAR checks. VAR checks take longer to adjudicate than setting up for a free kick, and VAR really adds very little to the game that is good. But then I think making mistakes is part of the game including mistakes by refs.
Tony Jay
@trollhattan:
She’s right. It’s iconic.
Christ, I’m even more emotionally drained than I was last night. The Quarters will end up killing me.
JMG
@Tony Jay: In my experience, coaches and managers in every team sport are far more likely to expect/wish for a sudden turnaround for a slumping star than to sub for them. Back in the aughts in the NFL, assistant coach Tom Moore of the Colts was asked why Peyton Manning took every practice snap with the first team offense while the backup, whose name I and everyone else has forgotten, got none. What if Manning got hurt? Moore’s answer: “If 18 (Manning’s number) goes down, we’re fucked, and we don’t practice fucked.”
Leto
@billcinsd:
You got some stats to back that up? A dive is
an attempt by a player to gain an unfair advantage by falling to the ground and possibly feigning an injury to give the impression that a foul has been committed.
It’s rampant in the mens game. It’s why a lot of people just won’t watch, because all they see are players flopping all over the place. A quick Google search of “soccer players flopping” brings up so many videos it’s ridiculous.
One to three VARs per game is nothing compared to the amount of stoppage time divvied out to players falling. The resulting stops from that, waiting for the fouled player to stop rolling all over the place, placement of the ball, marking the ten yards for the wall, making sure players aren’t jostling, having the ref get into position… it’s enough time for the color commentary to review the incident 3-4 times, for the audience to see the “harmed player” taking the piss… it’s insulting. To everyone involved.
Well just as long as we don’t actually try to improve anything, I’m sure the quality of the matches will just magically improve by themselves. Also there’s a distinct difference between “mistake” and ‘drawing a penalty”.
Honestly I’ve never encountered someone who’s pro flop/time wasting, but here we are. /shrug
trollhattan
@Tony Jay:
Heh, it’s not for the weak. :-)
I’ve been in sports coma, with the track and field trials, various futbol seasons and tourneys, and now Le Tour. Olympics, here we come (Covid or not). Pondering a teevee upgrade.
VeniceRiley
@Leto: I figure the main reason they do it is to give a break from all the sprinting.
Leto
I actually want to go into this a bit further. From the wiki I linked above is this section:
Italics part is mine: how many people thought Christian Erickson dove in that initial match? Why did it take so long for the on-site medical team to get out to him? I was watching that game live and the four on-site medical personnel (not the team trainers) were fucking slow moving it over to him. Why? Because diving/fake fouls are so fucking rampart that medical teams don’t actually know when a player is actually hurt. Which is why I’m glad that 1) his teammates recognized wtf was going on and 2) his staff’s medical team moved their asses to get to him. They needed to use the defib on him, but who was carrying that? The slow ass on-site medical team. Refs and medical officials recognize the danger this poses, yet it’s still a major part of the game.
The bottom part of the wiki is fascinating: diving rep among the players. I was a bit surprised by the number of Brits on this. Beloved BJ sub, Jack Graelish, was ejected from a game because of diving. But the list has a number of top flight players who should be on their countries Olympic Dive teams.
Overall, I’m glad we have VAR. Doesn’t mean that it can’t be improved, but we have the ability to make the game better. It’s dumb to hang on to “tradition for traditions” sake, otherwise we’d still be joined at the hip with the rugby assholes instead of our own sport.
Leto
@VeniceRiley: nah, it’s because it’s not really punished and so far the data backs that up (per the linked material I gave). If you’re continually not punished for unsportsman like behavior, there’s no incentive to stop, and there’s nothing but incentive to copy it. (sound familiar? :P) This is similar in logic to what esports players do. I’d say “and NBA players” but the NBA actually fines players who do this. LeBron James has paid out a lot of fines.
JR
Can someone explain to me how you can get Groups A and F in the same tournament? That’s nucking futs.
dr. luba
@Gin & Tonic: Героям слава!!!!!