Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

He really is that stupid.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

Republicans do not pay their debts.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

The frogs are rarely mistaken.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Let there be snark.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Go ahead for all the good it can do — Have yourself a dime’s worth of talking

Go ahead for all the good it can do — Have yourself a dime’s worth of talking

by | 176 Comments

This post is in: 

I’m tired of leaky investigations that don’t amount to anything, so color me skeptical that this will yield anything:

The Manhattan district attorney’s office is expected to charge the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, with tax-related crimes Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter.

The hope is that Weisselberg will drop a dime on the Trump Org’s fraud because he’s facing time in prison, but hasn’t Michael Cohen already pretty much done that?

As I was writing this post, news broke that Bill Cosby will be released from prison after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his conviction on charges of sexual assault. I realize these cases are quite different, but Weisselberg has to believe that Trump’s attorneys will be able to delay his conviction by using their usual tactics, then appeal it and perhaps get him off, just like Cosby. Weisselberg has spent his career watching Trump get rich man’s justice (no consequences other than a little bit of inconvenience), and he might reasonably expect to receive the same.

(Also, sorry I didn’t respond to John’s call for posts the other day — I’m traveling and have some family stuff going on. )

Reader Interactions

176Comments

  1. 1.

    germy

    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned Bill Cosby’s conviction after finding an agreement with a previous prosecutor prevented Cosby from being charged in the case.

    The previous prosecutor? Bruce Castor aka Trump’s second impeachment defense attorney: pic.twitter.com/IuWrlUc0tF

    — The Recount (@therecount) June 30, 2021

  2. 2.

    Leto

    but hasn’t Michael Cohen already pretty much done that?

    All the former federal prosecutors on MSNBC have said the same thing: singularly relying on the word of a former felon convicted for perjury ain’t gonna fly. His testimony is helpful, but you need more than him.

  4. 4.

    JPL

    @Leto: The prosecution is going after others, who accepted benefits from the organization, but didn’t claim them.   Maybe one person will flip.

    hope springs eternal.

  5. 5.

    JPL

    @germy:  Popehat said that Castor is having a big year.    From fucking up the Cosby case, to acting as trump’s impeachment attorney.

  8. 8.

    stinger

    Was coming here to say that the front pagers really stepped up in the past couple of days. Just came back from a funeral, so loss and grief and still on my mind. It has been nice to have a lot of post options.

  9. 9.

    Feathers

    We need a definition of “innocent until proven guilty” that includes a way for a rape without witnesses to be successfully prosecuted.

  11. 11.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Marc Maron said years ago, before Cosby was exposed, that word got back to him that he (Cosby) wouldn’t do Maron’s WTF podcast because of the vulgarity

  12. 12.

    Betty Cracker

    I saw a term on Twitter today: “justice grifter.” I think I’ve blocked or muted most of them, but it’s a handy term for the people who are making a cottage industry of assuring us all that yep, Trump’s goose is cooked for sure this time. I mean, that’s fine if you (still!) really believe it, but a lot of folks are chasing donations and/or clout and using our understandable outrage to do it.

  13. 13.

    Pennsylvanian

    Another rich serial rapist set free. Fuck. You just knew it was coming.

    Time for women to start killing these fuckers at the scene of the crime. If a “gay panic” defense can work because a man is scared enough to kill by another man flirting with him or touching him, why the fucking fuck can’t a woman kill a rapist in “panic”?

    SO, SO ANGRY!!!!!

  14. 14.

    JoyceH

    I honestly don’t understand why you need other people’s testimony. Seems to me the paperwork ought to be damning enough. If you value a piece of property at one price when applying for a loan secured by that property, and one tenth that amount for tax purposes, that seems pretty cut and dried. Trump’s signature would be on those documents and the value of the property isn’t some picky little detail hidden in a footnote.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    Finally:  the reason for the PA decision:  ETA:  Source is NY Times:

    In their 79-page opinion, the judges wrote that a “non-prosecution agreement” struck with a previous prosecutor meant that he should not have been charged in the case, and that Mr. Cosby should be discharged. They barred a retrial in the case.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    PS: I also didn’t respond to John’s call for posts the other day, and I had nothing like your excuse, i.e., I’m just fed up with everything being fucked up and bullshit, and I couldn’t think of anything to talk about that wasn’t depressing on a day when the blog needed uplift. So don’t feel bad, M!

  18. 18.

    Elizabelle

    Bill Cosby’s career is ruined.

    He did serve time in prison, plus the humiliation of a public trial and guilty verdict.

    I just hope he does not succeed in a millions-dollar suit for damages against the State of Pennsylvania.

  20. 20.

    L85NJGT

    DeSantis’s office has “made a direct plea” to the former president’s team, calling on it to postpone the Saturday event in Sarasota. One Florida Republican bluntly said Trump and his team need to “read the room.”

    ???

  21. 21.

    The Dangerman

    Making no judgements about Cosby…

    …but, from my limited reading on the overturn, what a monstrous prosecution fuckup (note, IANAL, but have watched a shitload of Law and Order AND stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night).

  22. 22.

    prostratedragon

    @JoyceH:  Emphatically not a lawyer,  but gist I get from tv lawyers is that the case has to address intent somehow.

  24. 24.

    Cameron

    @L85NJGT: I’m a bit surprised – I didn’t know Sarasota was Trumpy.  Should be a highly unpleasant weekend in Florida.

  25. 25.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @JoyceH: The prosecutors need to prove he knew is was dodgy.  Otherwise, he says “I trusted my underlings.  Shame on me for being so trusting.”

  28. 28.

    Elizabelle

    Psaki just got a question about Noem deployment of SD NG to the border.  She did not have an answer.  Said she would get back to the reporter.

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    @rikyrah:   Please share the best of what you find.

    Cosby’s rights may very well have been violated.  He is still a [date] rapist, with dozens of credible accusations.

  31. 31.

    Elizabelle

    Q re the Cosby PA decision:

    Don’t have a direct response. … Biden long an advocate for fighting against violence against women.  No specific comment.

  33. 33.

    Elizabelle

    @JPL:   And, please God, Breyer announces he will embark on his well-deserved retirement.

    Go Breyer Go!  Ruckus is enjoying retirement.  You can, too.  Scoot!

  34. 34.

    cmorenc

    @Feathers: 

    We need a definition of “innocent until proven guilty” that includes a way for a rape without witnesses to be successfully prosecuted.

    Which is impossible to do in the US because of the Sixth Amendment “right to confront witnesses against [an accused person on trial]”, unless it fits within one of the exceptions to the hearsay rule that Courts have traditionally regarded as 6A-compliant, such as “dying declarations” made by someone while aware of the immediate likelihood of their death. It’s extremely unlikely such a general “rape” exception could pass even basic 6A constitutional muster – see Crawford v Washington: “Dispensing with confrontation because testimony is obviously reliable is akin to dispensing with jury trial because the defendant is obviously guilty.”

  36. 36.

    Leto

    @prostratedragon: Well I hope that all the other businesses that were found guilty of being fraud schemes (Trumpov University/ Trumpov Foundation) are factored into this intent. Not like he, and his company, don’t have a long history of fraud.

  38. 38.

    Pennsylvanian

    @Omnes Omnibus: Called for? I’m starting to think it is long overdue.

    That may actually be the only way that women who have been trafficked, raped, beaten, forced into sexual slavery or otherwise abused to get justice.

    Honestly, it feels like the only way women can stop the violence is to START by killing their abusers and rapists, not reporting the crimes against them. WTF good has that done? Then they just wind up having the entire lives raped over and over by the courts and the media and random assholes stalking them with death threats. Dead rapists can’t claim it was consensual or she was asking for it or that her skirt was short enough that it was ok.

    I wish he had been killed by the first woman he raped because it would have saved the ruin of dozens, maybe hundreds, of other lives.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    Psaki is battling with “Peter” about defunding the police.  Is that the Doocey spawn?  He has a nice voice.

  42. 42.

    WaterGirl

    @JoyceH: Listen to Preet’s podcast from last night.  You have to be able to prove that Trump knew that the shady stuff and he knew it was wrong. For that, you need someone to drop a dime on Trump, and the big money guy at the Trump organization refuses to do that.

    Without that, trump can say he just followed the advice of the money guys and the lawyers, and how was he to know that anything untoward was happening.

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @evodevo: I’m limiting my excitement to the prospect that he may have to sell off his money-losing assets to pay off the loans that paid for them, and I’m not betting any money on that. Amazing to me that not only has he had the discipline to keep everything out of writing, but it would seem he managed to beat that into his kids and employees as well

    ETA: Tim O’Brien, who saw trumps books but can’t say what he saw, estimates that trump has $2B in assets and $1B in debt. Most of the golf courses, I believe, especially Doral and the properties in Ireland and Scotland, lose money.

  44. 44.

    randy khan

    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision was always a risk for this prosecution.  And, yes, it’s all on the old prosecutor, who entered into the agreement for no good reason other than that I guess he believed Cosby instead of the woman Cosby raped.

    Obviously there isn’t justice here, but at least we did have the trial and 12 jurors who looked at the evidence and found Cosby guilty.  The conviction may disappear from the official records, but it won’t disappear from memory.  I give the current prosecutor a lot of credit for making the decision to press forward and make that possible.

  46. 46.

    Cameron

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree – I think a judgement against his company is about the best we can hope for.  That wouldn’t be insignificant, but certainly not as satisfying as being able to compare the color of his hair with the color of his jumpsuit.

  47. 47.

    Elizabelle

    Q re whether White House has any preparations for a potential Breyer retirement.

    Psaki says the retirement situation is entirely up to Breyer, and reiterated that Biden has promised to nominate an African American woman to the Court, which would be a historic event.

    Elizabelle translation:  Get your butt out of the way of history, Breyer!

  48. 48.

    sdhays

    @Leto: I’m getting the feeling that, once again, the bar for establishing legal liability at the level Dump has been engaging in is a lot higher than the laws that bind the rest of us. This is my shocked face.

    White collar crimes aren’t really crimes, are they? //

  49. 49.

    Betty Cracker

    @L85NJGT: DeSantis is walking on eggshells, but I think there’s a better than even chance Trump goes after him at some point since he (Trump — well, both, but this time I mean Trump) is such a narcissistic nut. Losing that recent straw poll to DeSantis had to hurt. Trump is yesterday’s news, and that’s painful for an egotistical baby. He’ll lash out.

  50. 50.

    Glory b

    Hey, I’m a Pennsylvania lawyer. Cosby had a civil trial and was taking the 5th amendment. The former prosecutor entered into the non prosecution agreement to force him to testify in the civil trial. Then the next prosecutor used that testimony against him in the criminal trial. The Supreme Court said that a prosecutor can’t make a deal, have the defendant rely on it to his detriment, only to have the next prosecutor use it against him. I understand that the prosecutor used his statements in the civil trial against him in the criminal trial, even though he made them because he no longer had the ability to plead the 5th.

    Somebody on Popehat’s Twitter page said it’s a good decision for a bad guy. That’s probably right.

    Supposedly,  the former prosecutor didn’t think they’d win the criminal case, and a civil judgment was the best that could be hoped for.

    If it helps, he had already done the minimum, he’d been in 3 years, the sentence was 3 to 10.

    We have a good, majority Dem, liberal Supreme Court here.

     

  51. 51.

    Elizabelle

    WRT tomorrow’s possible charges against Weisselberg and the Trump Org:  do not forget.  This is the first of many, many cases in preparation.  It does seem like relatively small potatoes.  Being a (naive) optimist, I think other investigators will find plenty to prosecute.  And they are just getting started.

    Aren’t we getting a scad of new IRS employees to get the moneybags to pony up their share?

  52. 52.

    sdhays

    @Elizabelle: I’ll just take this opportunity mention that it’s shitty that Supreme Court Justices get to decide who appoints their successor (unless they die). I appreciate that it makes sense to keep SC Justices “above the fray” with long terms outside the normal electoral cycle, but they should be further removed from the fray by not having any power over who their replacement is.

  53. 53.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Glory b: FWIW that sounds about right.  It doesn’t make it less upsetting for people, but it was probably the right legal result.  Ernesto Miranda was not a good guy either.

  54. 54.

    Delk

    Can we at least get trump’s name off of the Chicago building? It really blows that when I leave my shrink’s office, feeling good and unburdened, and that’s the first thing I see.

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    @sdhays:   Agreed.  I would like to see term limits on the Supremes. Long terms, 18 years seems like a good long run.  20 even. But no more demographic bingo or — worse — tiptoeing around a demented “justice.”

    I like the idea of rolling replacements.  And of expanding the court.

  56. 56.

    Glory b

    @Pennsylvanian: On behalf of all black men wrongfully accused and lynched or executed in this country (cough, Scottsboro Boys, cough), I respectfully disagree.

  58. 58.

    sdhays

    @Delk: While I’m not holding my breath on criminal charges for Dump, I am very curious what happens when his huge loans start to become due. There’s no credible evidence that he can cover his debt, and his line of credit seems finally be running out now that he’s no longer Preznit.

    Hopefully the banks will start seizing his buildings and try to rehabilitate them with less offensive names. Like “Satan’s Palace” or “Fuck Ye, All Who Live Here”.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    @Glory b:

    Somebody on Popehat’s Twitter page said it’s a good decision for a bad guy. That’s probably right.

    Happens a lot.

  61. 61.

    Mike in NC

    Isn’t Cosby moving to Florida? Seems to be a favorite hunting ground for other sexual predators like Trump and Gaetz.

  62. 62.

    germy

    @sdhays:

    Trump is an aggressive fundraiser.  He still has lots of fans who are happy to break their piggy banks to donate some cash.

    I’m not sure if that’s enough $ to settle his debts, but I believe he still has income.

  64. 64.

    geg6

    From what I’ve read so far, the Cosby case was overturned on a technicality and the SCOPA did not address his guilt or innocence. He could be re-tried.

  65. 65.

    sdhays

    Via Atrios, here’s a Twitter thread that argues that the verdict is shit:

    2. PA has a very specific process for being granted immunity from prosecution. AND IT CANNOT BE GRANTED BY A PROSECUTOR. Rather, a prosecutor has to ask a court to grant immunity IN COSBY’S CASE THE PROSECUTOR NEVER ASKED

    3. So we are basically going off of the former prosecutor’s (and Cosby’s) word that such an agreement existed. The record is shaky, but IT DOESN’T MATTER. The prosecutor has no power to immunize Cosby unilaterally

    4. The PA Supreme Court, obviously, knows the law about how people can get immunity in Pennsylvania But they claim that, regardless of the letter of the law, FUNDAMENTAL FAIRNESS requires them to enforce the “agreement” between Cosby and Castor

    5. This, to put it mildly, is BS. Cosby had the best lawyers money could buy. Cosby would not be tricked into thinking he had immunity when he did not have immunity. His lawyers were too good for that. Cosby knew exactly what he was doing and he knew he didn’t have immunity.

  66. 66.

    Fair Economist

    I’m with mistermix on the charges vs. Trump’s organizations: Show Me the Money. Tired of the tease. I’ll read about the actual charges if and when they get filed.

  67. 67.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Delk:

    The sight of it has ruined two or three Chicago architecture boat tours for me over the past several years.

  68. 68.

    JoyceH

    @germy: ​
     

    Trump is an aggressive fundraiser. He still has lots of fans who are happy to break their piggy banks to donate some cash.

    I’m not sure if that’s enough $ to settle his debts, but I believe he still has income.

    Income, yeah, but I think he also has pretty enormous expenses. Whether or not he’s a real billionaire, he lives like one. And those rallies must be incredible money hogs. I don’t think he charges for attendance because he wants the big crowds for his ego and his continued political clout, but even if he did, he couldn’t charge enough to cover the cost of putting them on.

  69. 69.

    Pennsylvanian

    @Glory b:This feels like the tip of the downward spiral where everyone should just be happy with the measly crumbs of justice that you get once in a blue moon, when what we all deserve is so much better. I’ll leave it there.

    I hope Cosby lives a miserable rest of his life and is shunned by the world, but we all know he’ll probably get a talk show or something and turn into a worshipped men’s rights activist. That sounds about par for the course.

  70. 70.

    dearmaizie

    Lurker here. This topic is so profoundly infuriating to me, I have to come out from behind the tree and comment. Someone on Twitter this morning said this was another Cy Vance let-trump-off-the-hook move by running out the clock until his retirement, then dropping the whole case. Much like he did against Ivanka and DJTJ. I think this might be true. Trump’s never gonna see the inside of a jail cell after everything he did to this democracy and the people who own it, not to mention the 600K dead ones. Do you know how depressing that is?

  72. 72.

    sdhays

    @JoyceH: I may not expect to ever see him in an orange jumpsuit, but I still hold out a flickering hope to see him forced to sell or lose his plane and most of his properties.

  73. 73.

    JoyceH

    @Pennsylvanian:

    we all know he’ll probably get a talk show or something and turn into a worshipped men’s rights activist. That sounds about par for the course.

    Like OJ did? Come on, Cosby is a ruined man. And I suspect his multitude of victims will sue him if they aren’t already. Yeah, the court ruling sucked, but he’s never going to sell another pudding pop again.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    @dearmaizie:

    after everything he did to this democracy and the people who own it,

    In fairness, nearly half the people who on it are the ultimate problem.

  75. 75.

    Cameron

    @JoyceH: Guy’s in his 80’s and has no reputation left to lose.  I don’t see him doing much more than disappearing.

  78. 78.

    JoyceH

    @sdhays: ​
     

    I may not expect to ever see him in an orange jumpsuit, but I still hold out a flickering hope to see him forced to sell or lose his plane and most of his properties.

    That could easily happen. Well, probably not the plane, which I think is sitting in pieces in an airport, but all or most of his properties are money-losers, and nobody is going to go into business with him ever again. His ‘brand’ is toxic and so is his credit. However much he ‘owns’, he doesn’t have the liquid assets to cover the loans that are coming due in the next year or so.

    I have always thought that Trump pre-presidency lived off the loans from projects in development, because once the project was developed and in operation, it just turned into a money suck. But to maintain that lifestyle, you have to have a constant churn of new projects being developed and new loans coming in for those projects.

  80. 80.

    david

    @Major Major Major Major: 

    SuspendedHat@Popehat · 1h

    /7 In case you are wondering, PA Supreme Court justices are elected (or appointed to fill a vacancy until a special election), and of the current crop 5 are Democrats and 2 Republicans. Three are former prosecutors.

  81. 81.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: Prosecutors are not done with Weisselberg. They may have enough documentary evidence to indict him on multiple counts, and Weisselberg can consider cooperation right up until his trial. We will see if Weisselberg is made of the same stuff as Roger Stone. And even Stone, who is somewhat of a freak, could anticipate a pardon when he lied to and stonewalled Muellar’s team. I don’t think Weisselberg can count on one here.

    In his life as a career criminal, trump seems to have learned to use a very few trusted henchmen, and not to leave a paper trail. But there still may be people besides Weisselberg who can deliver the goods to prosecutors, and there are probably documents that incriminate trump organization members up to at least Weisselberg’s level. That Manhattan grand jury was empaneled for a term of several months, and the indictments anticipated for this week may only be a beginning.

  83. 83.

    West of the Rockies

    Cosby turns 84 next month, is largely blind and in shaky condition.  I’d prefer he be free than Trump, Stone, Gaetz, Pompeo, Guiliani, and a dozen other vile people.  YMMV.

  85. 85.

    dr. bloor

    @sdhays: If we’re deciding how to think about this based on Twitter feeds, I think I’m gonna go with Popehat over Judd Legum re: the merits of the opinion.

  87. 87.

    James E Powell

    @sdhays:

    It wasn’t an immunity deal. It was an agreement not to use his deposition testimony in a criminal case.

  89. 89.

    Betty

    @Elizabelle: Someone on Twitter posted a section of the trial court’s analysis on this issue where they rejected the idea that there was an enforceable agreement, noting that Cosby never asserted his 5th Amendment rights. Not sure why the Supreme Court went a different route.

  91. 91.

    germy

    Reader comment over at The Root:

    To all the white people that I have already seen polluting my TV screen and phone telling me how unfair this whole thing is, congratulations you now know how the families of hundreds and thousands of other black families have felt watching the justice system rip their hearts out. Oh can we not hear from Rose McGowan today? You know the white woman you all decided to make the face of the “Me Too” movement instead of Tarana Burke?
    This system may suck but it is the one we are sadly stuck with. Remember local elections count also.

  94. 94.

    Gravenstone

    @germy: She claims receipts. The question is how valuable they might ultimately be. Maybe her ex was running a set of duplicate books and she has a set, but I doubt we get that lucky.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    I skimmed the court’s opinion.  The reason they enforced the decision not to prosecute as that it apparently prevented Cosby from asserting his 5th amendment right in the civil deposition.  Because it had a legal effect on Cosby, the court said the new DA was essentially bound by it.

  99. 99.

    germy

    @Gravenstone:

    Jennifer, of course, is no average ex-daughter-in-law, but one who has supplied prosecutors with a trove of financial documents regarding her ex-husband, who happens to also be a Trump Organization employee, and the business’s CFO. “My knowledge of the documents and my voice connect the flow of money from various banks and from personal finances that bleed directly into the Trump Organization,” she told reporters in April, after investigators picked up from her apartment three boxes reportedly containing information on her ex-husband’s bank accounts and credit cards, as well as his statements of net worth and tax filings.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/jennifer-weisselberg-trump-organization-grand-jury

  100. 100.

    Cacti

    Bill Cosby is a bad guy and remains a bad guy. But today’s result came about entirely from prosecutorial shenanigans

  101. 101.

    JoyceH

    And hey, let’s not forget that the Washington DA is looking at Weisselberg and Ivanka over the shenanigans at the Inaugural Committee, and there’s a DA down in Georgia looking at Trump himself for election interference, and that case has him on audio.

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    @dearmaizie: You are not alone in your skepticism about Manhattan District Attorney Vance. A lot of people take it a a matter of faith that Vance will go easy on trump, because he went easy on Ivanka and other wealthy culprits. I’m not so sure. I am not counting on him being aggressive, but there could be too much indictable crime at issue for Vance to “throw” this case even if he wants too, and he might not want to anyway.

    And trump has been criming all over the country, especially as a money launderer. During last year’s campaign, Joe Biden said that he wouldn’t tell the Justice Department to go out of it’s way to prosecute trump, and I think he was right to say this. But Federal and state prosecutors may not have to go out of their way to find evidence of crimes by trump and his minions.

  105. 105.

    JoyceH

    @Cacti: ​
     

    Bill Cosby is a bad guy and remains a bad guy.

    And isn’t that disillusioning when he managed to go for DECADES convincing us all he’s a nice guy? From I Spy to America’s Dad on the Cosby Show. How do they HIDE this stuff?!

  109. 109.

    cain

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    So much nuance in that statement. I salute you sir.

    I also disagree – killing someone harms the person doing the killing just as much. Not only are you adding on top of the trauma of being raped – what do you think that murder trial is going to look like?

  112. 112.

    Elizabelle

    A kind of amusing TV story headline, Miami Channel 10

    Surfside resident lucky to be alive after spending night with girlfriend

    ETA:  She’d persuaded her young man to stay over, rather than returning to the tower that collapsed a few hours later.  But still ….

  113. 113.

    L85NJGT

    @Betty Cracker:

    It wasn’t liberals that tossed him out of Mobile Bay. The main line GOP is trying to claw back control of the party via suburban women, while wanting to use him to turnout his his low propensity followers.

    That will drive him nuts, and he’s gonna go ballistic on them – third party in 2024.

  114. 114.

    piratedan

    @Cacti: that’s my take… a bad deal made by a bad DA (as we’ve all discovered) and then instead of honoring that deal (as dubious as it was), the new guy comes in hunting for a high-profile scalp and gets it and now the scalp has been re-attached and walks (with obvious damage to public persona).

    a case where an unjust person skates on the issue of technicality but I understand the position of either the DA had the authority to make that crappy deal or he didn’t, the PA Supes indicated that he did, regardless of how badly it was executed with no written formal declaration, it was known to be in effect in return for his statement to all parties (or so its stated).

    If we want to avoid shit like this, write better laws or elect better public officials (preferably both) and I type that with all bitterness for the victims left to bear the real burden without seeing a legal system working for them and their rights.

  115. 115.

    prostratedragon

    @Geminid:  If Vance means to run out the clock,  then  bringing in a syndicate specialist and hooking up with AG James would give the move real sprezzatura. Either way,  I guess we’ll see.

  118. 118.

    glory b

    @sdhays: To be fair, on the other hand (like law professors like to say), there was a dissent that said he could be retried without using the incriminating statements.

  120. 120.

    rikyrah

    About Cosby

     

    Free is free.

    Free on technicality always means to me that those in charge didn’t do their homework.
    And, thought that they could let crappy work stand.

    I mean, they’ve put enough Black people away with crappy work….why change now?

  121. 121.

    trollhattan

    @West of the Rockies:

    My preference is they all be locked up. There’s plenty of room for everyone, prison cells aren’t zero sum.

    Can’t begin to imagine how his victims and those who can relate to his victims through their own experiences must feel. He was convicted for a tiny sliver of his crimes and now shuffles away from any further punishment. Sure, he’s going to try and restore his reputation, a mountain that a hundred Huxtables can’t climb, but it still stinks. What’s next, Weinstein being sprung?

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @rikyrah: One person’s technicality is another’s Constitutional right.  I have always hated the use of the word technicality.  No one’s rights are a technicality.

  132. 132.

    germy

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    “His beloved Taos New Mexico” ?

    These rich RW motherfuckers always retire to the bluest places.

    I guess they like the nice standard of living there.

  134. 134.

    Geminid

    @L85NJGT: There is good reporting on the Alabama rally cancellation by local TV station “NBC 15 Mobile. ” The head commissioner for the Alabama Battleship Memorial Park is quoted as saying people felt “burned” in 2012 when Rick Santorum used the park for a campaign rally. They decided on a policy of no political events. “Rick Santorum,” the commissioner said, “was the straw that broke the camel’s back.”

    This may have been Santorum’s only real accomplishment that year.

  136. 136.

    Elizabelle

    WaPost:
    Historians just ranked the presidents. Trump wasn’t last.

    Despite being impeached twice, former president Donald Trump is not the worst president in U.S. history, according to 142 presidential historians surveyed by C-SPAN, the results of which were released Wednesday.

    But the survey doesn’t give Trump much to brag about either. He ranked lower than William Henry Harrison, who was only president for 31 days, and John Tyler, the only former president buried in a coffin draped with the Confederate flag.

    So who ranked worse than Trump? According to the historians, presidents Franklin “Bleeding Kansas” Pierce, Andrew “First to Be Impeached” Johnson and James “Failed to Stop the Civil War” Buchanan, who came in last.

    To be clear, this was an informal survey whose respondents were selected by C-SPAN, not a scientific poll.

  137. 137.

    Just One More Canuck

    @Cameron: Who would be stupid enough to give a permit for one of these griftapaloozas without a huge non-refundable deposit up front

  139. 139.

    Elizabelle

    WaPost last paragraph:

    C-SPAN is not the only outfit conducting presidential rankings, and other recent surveys have included Trump before he left office. In 2018, when Boise State University surveyed presidential scholars for its Presidents & Executive Politics Presidential Greatness survey, Trump came in last. And that was before the two impeachments, the pandemic and the Capitol insurrection.

    Not to mention the legal system reckoning, which might begin (on a small note) tomorrow.

    Trump came in dead last on “moral authority” and “administrative skills.”  Second to last on “international relations.”

  140. 140.

    Betty Cracker

    @L85NJGT: From your keyboard to the FSM’s delicate, al dente orecchiette. And if he tanks DeSantis’s reelection into the bargain, that’s even better.

  141. 141.

    James E Powell

    No one likes to see a bad guy go free, but we have to have rules. I would especially like to argue against the use of the term “technicality” to refer to constitutional and other procedural rules that are designed to ensure fair trials. It’s overused in movies and TV shows – that fictional world where motions to suppress are almost always granted – and does not reflect the reality of criminal trials. It was a phrase that grew out of right-wing “law & order” objections to the rulings of the Warren Era court that required states to uphold the rights of the accused. Careful examination revealed that “technicality” was a term used to cover for every manner of police & prosecutorial misconduct ranging from blundering incompetence to egregious abuses. Let’s be smarter & better about a matter of extreme importance.

  142. 142.

    Kay

    @geg6:

    Cosby case was overturned on a technicality

    I know why people say this, because what you’re saying is it’s not a determination of innocence- important- but there are no “technicalities”. His rights are real and a deal’s a deal. If the prosecutor didn’t know these are the rules that’s on the prosecutor. It is 100% his/her/their fault.

  145. 145.

    Elizabelle

    Trump was next to last on “International Relations.”  Looking for who was considered worst on that measure.

  146. 146.

    sdhays

    @James E Powell: To be clear, I wasn’t saying it was a shitty decision – as I’ve said, IANAL. But I did think that the argument deserved an airing – I’m definitely not someone who bitches about “technicalities”, but the characterization in the tweet seemed like a shady deal that the prosecutor wasn’t entitled to actually enforce and Cosby’s defense lawyers should have known that.

    I guess, based on @Baud’s comment that the issue is that the agreement and bad advice from his defense lawyers “tricked” Cosby into surrendering his 5th Amendment rights, that it was the right decision.

    I wonder what effect this decision will have on these types of agreements.

  149. 149.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Glory b:

    I’ve noted that you don’t see a great deal of intersection between the Innocence Project and #believeallwomen.

  150. 150.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:

    Lemieux: “Personally, I find the dissent’s argument that there was no Fifth Amendment violation because a press release by Castor with no promises does not constitute an agreement that binds future prosecutions pretty convincing:”

  151. 151.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @sdhays:

    When you’re prosecuting, you don’t get to make promises and then say “PSYCH, I didn’t cross all my Ts.”

  152. 152.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    And people wonder why I always plead laches and estoppel as affirmative defenses in just about everything.

    Comes in handy, folks!  ?

  153. 153.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    No, that’s fine. I have no problem with disagreeing with the analysis. I have to say though perhaps prosecutors should stop talking so much. I don’t know when all this talking started. What happened to just not talking until it’s over? That worked fine.I don’t get it with Trump either, frankly. What is this game playing? Jesus fucking Christ, why all this “we may” this or that?

  154. 154.

    trollhattan

    And then there’s this.

    “After Castor’s successor reopened the Cosby case, Castor informed her he made an agreement not to prosecute Cosby, but that he’d made the deal WITH COSBY’S ATTORNEY ONLY, and never even informed the victim of the deal he made – even though the deal was allegedly for her benefit!”

    “In short, DA Castor made an agreement with Cosby’s lawyer to announce that Cosby would not be prosecuted; the victim was never consulted about this “agreement”; and this is the only time in Castor’s career as DA that he made a public declaration there’d be no prosecution.”

    “And in his press release announcing his decision not to prosecute Cosby, DA Castor went out of his way to attack the victim’s credibility, concluding that: “Much exists in this investigation that could be used to portray PERSONS ON BOTH SIDES in a less than flattering light.”

    “In Castor’s emails urging his successor not to reopen the case, he repeatedly claims the agreement not to prosecute Cosby was made at the victim’s request: “That was what the lawyers for the plaintiff wanted and I agreed.” Castor was lying. The victim had no idea about the deal.”

    https://twitter.com/TheViewFromLL2/status/1410289865128882186

  156. 156.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @WaterGirl: I know this is true, but it’s also true that he has to sign his name to various documents stating that he knows they are accurate. So when they ask him you signed loan application X saying property Y was worth $50 million and three months later signed document tax document A that said property Y was worth $5 million. On which one of these documents were you lying? He should have to cough up an actual real answer or he committed perjury in signing them. I mean, that’s what should happen.

    I know what does happen is “how was I to know anything shady was going on? I’m just the main beneficiary of the fraud I perpetrated and get paid millions for my supposed financial expertise and business acumen, but I can’t actually be expected to read these documents I sign or know that they are wrong if I do read them!” is an excuse that juries never get tired of buying.

  159. 159.

    rikyrah

    @Glory b:

    Count me in the  HELL NO

     

    I don’t ‘ believe all women’.

     

    Uh huh.

     

    The pages of history of THIS COUNTRY are littered with the blood of Black men at the end of some White woman’s FALSE ACCUSATIONS.

     

    Believe All Women?

    I think the phuck not.

  160. 160.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    There’s so much muddling going on here my head is spinning. The plaintiff in the civil case  is the victim in the criminal case and she’s not a party in the criminal case. I don’t expect the litigant/victim to know this, she doesn’t need to be crystal clear on what’s going on, but the lawyers do. It’s a clusterfuck.

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    There may be a law where the victim has to be apprised of any deals in the criminal case, like there was in the Epstein case, but the victim is not a party in a criminal case and she doesn’t determine the outcome. The offense is to all of us- The People v or The State of v. The civil case is victim v Crosby.

  163. 163.

    Another Scott

    nycsouthpaw is as upset as I’ve ever seen him. E.g.

    Here’s where they invent Cosby’s detrimental reliance—contrary to the finder of fact’s evidence-based conclusions—based on “legal commandments.” pic.twitter.com/Pc4MUCsOyV

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 30, 2021

    IANAL, and I haven’t read the opinions, so I dunno.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  164. 164.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    And I don’t expect everyone to know all this and I think public commentary on legal issues is fine. I know what “unfair” is and that’s a perfectly valid complaint. Unfair is bad.  It’s just this is what you are paying these state lawyers for, so they have to know.

  166. 166.

    Another Scott

    I suspect that, in time, a lot of people calling this a victory for defendants will come to regret establishing the principle that due process can hinge upon the after-the-fact oral testimony of former DAs.

    — Max Kennerly (@MaxKennerly) June 30, 2021

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  168. 168.

    Another Scott

    One fun fact is that most of British and American rape law was shaped by this 17th century English jurist named Lord Mathew Hale—who presided over literal witch hunts and was seemingly obsessed with the idea that a woman was going to accuse him of rape to get his money.

    — Moira Donegan (@MoiraDonegan) June 30, 2021

    Something something not even past.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  170. 170.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @WaterGirl: What the nation needs is a financial negligence law. Basically a law that says any financial crime that goes on for X number of years and involves Y amounts of money gets you found guilty regardless of whether we can prove intent, or you claim ignorance, or any other excuses. Basically a “this went on long enough and you made enough money off it that if you didn’t know you should have and had plenty of time to figure out what was going on” and therefore you are guilty regardless of your state of mind, or claims that you just signed documents they put in front of you, or that you thought everything was copacetic. It should apply to CFOs, CEOs, and a few other top executives, and owners of non-publicly traded businesses.

  173. 173.

    billcinsd

    @Glory b: The trial court did not believe the former prosecutor about the secret agreement, the Supreme Court did. The Supreme Court also “yelled” at the more recent prosecutor for prosecuting and I guess not believing the old prosecutor about the secret agreement, of which there does not appear to be any evidence

Comments are closed.