Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Giving up is unforgivable.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

People are weird.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Criminal Charges for the Trump Organization & CFO Allen Weisselberg

Criminal Charges for the Trump Organization & CFO Allen Weisselberg

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Criminal Charges for the Trump Organization & CFO Allen Weisselberg

I was afraid this was going to be a slap on the wrist with charges only related to free rent for family, etc.  But a 15-year tax fraud scheme ought to mean serious business.

Balloon Juice attorneys, what say you?

I need to find a better photo of the perp walk, but this will do for now.

Trump Organization and CFO Allen Weisselberg arraigned on multiple criminal charges as prosecutors alleged a 15-year tax fraud scheme  (Washington Post)

Prosecutors charged the Trump Organization with a 15-year “scheme to defraud” the government and its chief financial officer with grand larceny and tax fraud in a Manhattan courtroom on Thursday, describing what they said was a wide-ranging effort to hide income from tax authorities.

In charging papers, prosecutors alleged that Allen Weisselberg, former president Donald Trump’s longtime CFO, had avoided more than $900,000 in taxes by concealing the value of benefits he got from Trump’s company — including a free apartment, free Mercedes-Benz cars, new furniture and tuition payments for his relatives.

In internal records, the Trump Organization treated these benefits as part of Weisselberg’s compensation, prosecutors said. But it did not report them to taxing authorities, allowing Weisselberg and the company to avoid taxes, the documents said.

Link to the Kurt Eichenwald thread reader post

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

165Comments

  1. 1.

    Doug R

    AW is acting like he’s more afraid of the Russian mob than a stretch in prison.

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Grand Larceny (2nd degree?) sounds like a big deal to me, Daniel Goldman (chief counsel, I believe, to the first trump Impeachment managers) was kind of pooh-poohing it, speculating that Weisselberg is betting he can gut it out, as jail time would not be typical in a case like this.

  10. 10.

    JPL

    @Omnes Omnibus:  I assume that the clan is concerned, because if Weisselberg was paid under the table, you know the rest were.

    Who’s is unindicted co-conpriator #1?

  12. 12.

    JoyceH

    What astonished me was the two sets of books. How… trite! It’s like someone thought, well, this is how the mob does it…

  14. 14.

    germy

    A normal company would’ve given Weisselberg a raise to enable him to pay for his own lifestyle and his own taxes, reported it, and deducted the business expense. And a normal CFO would’ve insisted on that.

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) July 1, 2021

  15. 15.

    WaterGirl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Daniel Goldman (chief counsel, I believe, to the first trump Impeachment managers) was kind of pooh-poohing it, speculating that Weisselberg is betting he can gut it out, as jail time would not be typical in a case like this.

    Yeah, he was on Preet’s podcast this week, saying that, so I wasn’t expecting much.

  16. 16.

    Jeffro

    Kurt Eichenwald has a really good tweet-thread up (it’s only 14 or so tweets; be brave, people!) about how this essentially spells the end of the trumpov Org as a business entity, since it’s been falsifying its records for (checks indictment) 15 years or more.

    Of course, it ceased to be a ‘normal’ business entity a long, long time ago.  But still, great news here.

  19. 19.

    Jeffro

    Huge opportunity here for Dems, btw: “This is how people like Donald trumpov and others get rich and stay rich – they do everything they can to avoid paying the taxes that they owe, sometimes to the point of breaking the law with these wacky, criminal schemes.  Unlike the rest of us!”

    Wouldn’t hurt to have a pitchfork handy, although it’s too dry for a torch.

  21. 21.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @germy:  So Trump basically expects his staff to commit fraud so he has something to hold over them. Makes you wander what else this guy was up too,

  25. 25.

    Jeffro

    btw I just saw a Lincoln Project clip featuring Qevin McCarthy raising all kinds of “questions” about what happened on January 6th and saying that the lack of National Guard deployment at the Capitol “caused” insurrection (much like having a single security guard at a bank “causes” it to be robbed, I guess?) and whew I am maaaaaaaaad.

    If he has “questions”…maybe a bipartisan investigation of 1/6 could have gotten him some “answers”??!!?

  26. 26.

    JPL

    @Jeffro:  According to the link

    because if he was president, he could hit up the Russians, Saudis, etc to bail him out. Now, with him toxic and a threat to the country, those nations know that any secret payments they make to him run a huge risk of being discovered.

     

    If that’s true, trump is done.

  28. 28.

    A Ghost to Most

    The indictments reference a co-conspirator #1, and Tom Winter was informed it wasn’t OA. Could be Jeff McConney, who apparently knew almost as much as AW. Is he the first to flip?

     

    Eta corrected McConney’s first name

  30. 30.

    hells littlest angel

    Covid’s silver lining: criminals no longer need to cover their faces with newspapers when being perp-walked.

  32. 32.

    Roger Moore

    @Doug R:

    AW is acting like he’s more afraid of the Russian mob than a stretch in prison.

    I remember when Michael Cohen was indicted, there was video of him going down and meeting other mob members, who were very friendly.  Getting indicted and spending some time in prison is a known risk of the job.  Facing it well is an important way to prove to the rest of the gang that you’re able to keep your mouth shut when under pressure.  I don’t think they really trust someone who hasn’t done some time; I’m not sure I would if I were in their position.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jeffro: I hope he’s right. Reminds me of the scene in the Wolf Hall trilogy when More says to the Earl of Derby (IIRC), it’s one thing to fuck with the king, you’ve fucked with the bankers…

    also an undeveloped theme in Game of Thrones, at least the TV version

  34. 34.

    Ken

    @JPL: Done as in prosecutions will proceed, and he might be convicted of something in a few years?

    Or done as in has become a liability to various powerful people, and might have an accident where he falls backward onto the spire of Norwich Cathedral?

  35. 35.

    Jeffro

    @JPL: yup

    No more “we have all the financing we need out of Russia”

    flee, donnie, flee you fucking scumbag

  36. 36.

    Roger Moore

    @Jeffro: ​
     
    I am less certain this spells the end of the Trump Organization as a business entity. Yes, it would be really bad if the Trump Organization were a regular business with loans from regular banks. But AFAIK, Trump hasn’t been in that kind of business for a while. He’s dealing only with the kinds of banks who know he’s doing shady shit, and the loans to him are probably part of complex money laundering systems. They aren’t going to pull their loans just because he’s been falsifying business records, because his business records aren’t what they really care about.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    I like that the charges are fairly simple to understand. It’s not hard to grasp keeping two sets of books.

  38. 38.

    germy

    @Roger Moore:  He’s dealing only with the kinds of banks who know he’s doing shady shit, and the loans to him are probably part of complex money laundering systems. They aren’t going to pull their loans just because he’s been falsifying business records, because his business records aren’t what they really care about.

    That’s business as usual when the lights are out, but with a spotlight pointed at the org, wouldn’t the cockroaches scatter?

  40. 40.

    germy

    I’m not optimistic that Weisselberg will flip but I am optimistic he’ll be convicted. The law is fairly clear on what is income & what is taxable. He’s a sophisticated executive; mistake is implausible. The company booked much of it as income. And juries hate rich tax cheats.

    — Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara) July 1, 2021

  41. 41.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:

    If you are right, and it’s certainly possible because SFB never does business in any reasonable way, very likely is no where near normal business practices, like not within a million miles of them and if he is figuratively in bed with a foreign entity, because all other avenues of finance are closed to him and has been cooking the books (with oxy/acetylene torch level cooking) that will change a lot. But because he’s an idiot, he likely didn’t even do that well, so I suspect that he will be done. And after all, what was it that got Al Capone in the end?

  42. 42.

    scav

    Well, as the GOP and MAGAts always trumpeted they wanted government run as a business, it’ll undoubtedly be edifying to make abundantly clear just what businesses and business practices they had in mind as ideals.

  43. 43.

    dr. bloor

    @Roger Moore:  I’m not expecting the organization to close it’s doors either, although it will be interesting to see how many (and which) shady overseas entities want to be seen shopping at Don’s Famous and Extremely Well-Lit Money Laundering Emporium.

  44. 44.

    germy

    I've read the Weisselberg indictment. If we take its assertions as true, this is no ticky-tack, or foot fault, or debatable case of tax fraud. You might as well repeal the federal, state, and city income taxes as discover this sort of conduct and not prosecute it.

    — Daniel Shaviro (@DanielShaviro) July 1, 2021

  45. 45.

    dr. bloor

    @germy: ​
     

    If AW is determined to take one for the team, I hope at sentencing time the judge decides that he’s going to make sure AW takes one for the whole team, preferably with consecutive sentences.

  50. 50.

    germy

    The Trump Org operation seems way less sophisticated and much more stupid than the tax fraud scheme Fred Trump ran (which involved shell companies to launder expenses that were actually transfers of tax-free wealth to his kids)…like this family can't even tax evade right

    — Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) July 1, 2021

  51. 51.

    Philbert

    Maybe most of his ‘lenders’ will hang on but there may be enough of them trying to appear respectable that will balk and call their loans, leaving him like a garage after a swimming pool fell through it.

  53. 53.

    catclub

    @Jeffro: ​
     

    and saying that the lack of National Guard deployment at the Capitol “caused” insurrection

    This reminds me that Kuwait was invaded because April Glaspie took the wrong attitude into a diplomatic meeting. Saddam had nothing to do with it.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    @JPL: If that’s true, trump is done.

    I was convinced in June 2016 that Trump could not survive the fall national campaign.

  56. 56.

    J R in WV

    @Roger Moore: ​
     

    Actually, banks involved in “funny” business might be more inclined to yank all support from someone going under a microscope, like TFG ans his company.

    More to fear from all the investigators examining the books, both sets!!

  57. 57.

    germy

    Prediction: the charges brought today in Manhattan are the tip of the iceberg. Note DA request for a protective order to keep discovery close to the vest while investigation continues.— Andrew Weissmann (@AWeissmann_) July 1, 2021

  58. 58.

    Ruckus

    @catclub:

    SFB has lived outside normalcy in most every way possible for his entire life. It’s the thing he’s best at. Of course his best is………

  59. 59.

    Baud

    @germy:

    Yeah, it’s hard to believe that the organization engaged in this simplistic tax fraud scheme but did everything else by the book.

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    @Ruckus:

    Obviously, a conviction will shut the business down.  But I think it’s going to take a conviction to make that happen, not just an accusation.  I think it’s reasonable to assume that any bank that has been lending money to the Trump Organization is well aware of its shady dealings and went ahead anyway.  It’s going to take a lot more to scare them away than an indictment.

  62. 62.

    Redshift

    I’m just amused at how much Weisselberg looks like Capone’s accountant in The Untouchables.

    Ms. Redshift says if the endless Trump scandals were Stupid Watergate, this should be The Stupid Untouchables.

  64. 64.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Redshift:

    Ms. Redshift says if the endless Trump scandals were Stupid Watergate, this should be The Stupid Untouchables. 

    Hahaha, bravo!

  68. 68.

    Ken

    @Baud: “Corporations immediately began examining the corporate laws in the other 65 nations with an eye to relocating.”

  69. 69.

    RobNYNY

    @JoyceH: Any well managed company has at least three sets of books: Financial accounting governed by Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, federal tax accounting governed by the IRS Code, and managerial accounting not governed by any body of law but whatever is best for the internal use of the company.  If a company is multistate or multinational it might have a separate set of tax books for each state or country.  The assertion that the Trump Organization had two sets of books is not indicative of any wrongdoing. I think that there is plenty of evidence of wrongdoing in this case, but having two sets of books is not evidence of that.

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    In internal records, the Trump Organization treated these benefits as part of Weisselberg’s compensation, prosecutors said. But it did not report them to taxing authorities, allowing Weisselberg and the company to avoid taxes, the documents said.

    Not an attorney, but this seems like a stupid thing to do, something that can easily be checked.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    @RobNYNY:

    I hear what you’re saying, but the phrase “two sets of books” usually refers to fake accounting vs real accounting, not legitimate use of different accounting methods for different legal purposes.

  75. 75.

    catclub

    @RobNYNY: But all three sets of those books still agree on totals, just format them differently.  The point of criminal double books is that they don’t match.

  80. 80.

    mrmoshpotato

    @germy:

    A normal company would’ve… (my southpaw) 

    But we’re talking about a Soviet shitpile mobster conman here.

    Kids, if you too are a Soviet shitpile mobster conman, 1. Go fuck yourself! 2. Don’t be a dumbshit and run for high-ranking public office.

  82. 82.

    mrmoshpotato

    @JPL:

    If that’s true, trump is done. 

    Time for a fire-all-this-traitorous-orange-mobster-shit-into-the-Sun sale.

  83. 83.

    Feathers

    @Roger Moore: The Eichenwald thread says why not.  Count 12 is that the Trump Org falsified business records.

    …all bank loans with a business come with “lending covenants.” These are basically a series of requirements, some of which include “you’ll behave” in minor character. But *the most important part* of any loan covenant is the “books and records” portion. It is included in…/9

    …every covenant for a bank loan to a business. The terms are simple: You maintain truthful books and records, you attest to us that they are truthful, and we are allowed to review them at any time. There is no “You can lie *just a little bit* on your books and records”…/10

    …Forget Weisselberg. That is every every corporate defendant, every entity that could have a loan covenant in its name. Every Trump Org bank lender in the world, right now, is looking at this indictment, looking at their covenants, and calling the Trump Org demanding…/12

    …they turn over every relevant book and record pertaining to these issues. If they refuse…BOOM. Loans pulled. If they do and the banks don’t like what they see…BOOM. Loans pulled. If the loans come due (which 100s of millions do next year) no way they get refinanced…./13

    …there may be something I am missing here, but I do not see how the Trump Org survives this without some sort of corrupt deal overseas. But even that seems far-fetched. Instead, it may be the biggest real estate corp bankruptcy in history…./14

    His cash flow has collapsed, values of most of premier assets are underwater, $400 mill coming due next year and only way to pay it is to roll over the debt, now a books and records violation. Drexel Burnham had $1 trill in assets, went bankrupt for want of $100 mill in cash.

    There are enough banks who Trvmp Org does owe money to and they have shareholders. Even if they don’t, it will look very suspicious if they don’t demand the Trvmp Org books. Basically a confession that they were in on the fraud. If they want to claim they were duped, they have to underbus TFG.

    https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1410681545724252168?s=20

    ETA: fix wording.

  84. 84.

    RobNYNY

    @catclub: Not at all. Generally speaking: Financial accounting seeks to maximize revenue and minimize deductions [to increase income].Tax accounting seeks to minimize revenue and maximize deductions [to reduce income]. Managerial accounting doesn’t have either goal. [Edits in brackets.]

  86. 86.

    mrmoshpotato

    @scav:

    Well, as the GOP and MAGAts always trumpeted they wanted government run as a business, it’ll undoubtedly be edifying to make abundantly clear just what businesses and business practices they had in mind as ideals. 

    These mobster shitstains so badly wanted to turn the US into Russia.

  87. 87.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    Not an attorney, but this seems like a stupid thing to do, something that can easily be checked.

    There’s a reason criminal enterprises still keep careful books even though they can be used against them if they get caught.  Unlike an ordinary business, where the owner might hope to hire honest people to run things, the owner of a criminal enterprise knows he’s hired a bunch of crooks.  If he doesn’t keep a very close eye on them, they’ll rob him blind.  Avoiding the present problem of employees stealing everything they can is more important than the future problem of providing evidence for the authorities if you’re indicted.

  88. 88.

    zhena gogolia

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Everything they do has that goal.

    All this “critical race theory” stuff is just like the laws against promoting homosexuality to young people in Russia. They’re so vague and all-inclusive that you can’t say anything without running afoul of it.

  91. 91.

    RobNYNY

    @Feathers: That is different from accusing the TO of having two sets of books. Falsification is not the same as the difference between GAAP and the IRS Code.

  93. 93.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @germy: Daniel Shaviro is a classmate of mine. A verrry smart guy who knows his tax law. He also has a cat, so clearly a good guy too.

  94. 94.

    Brachiator

    @Jeffro:

    Huge opportunity here for Dems, btw: “This is how people like Donald trumpov and others get rich and stay rich – they do everything they can to avoid paying the taxes that they owe, sometimes to the point of breaking the law with these wacky, criminal schemes.  Unlike the rest of us!”

    I think the Democrats should focus carefully on issues of tax fraud and criminal tax evasion. But even here, a lot of people don’t get fired up about this.

    There is nothing wrong or illegal about legal tax avoidance. No one is obligated to pay more than they have to.

    But there are some conservatives who hate the federal government and who like to drone on about how the gummint wastes taxpayers’ money. So they will stupidly excuse tax fraud.

    And then there are dopes who envy the rich and actually applaud it when they pull these schemes. These people would do the same thing if they magically became billionaires.

  96. 96.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @RobNYNY: Yes, but when people talk about having two sets of books that’s not what they mean.  One set of books would constitute the accurate financial, tax, and managerial books and the other the ones for show.

  99. 99.

    RobNYNY

    @Omnes Omnibus: Then that is not clearly expressed by someone who should know better. He should have said that the books were falsified. Otherwise, to professionals it just looks like he doesn’t understand accounting. It doesn’t express anything useful to non-professionals. And it is objectively wrong. [There is much evidence of wrongdoing without mischacterization]. [Edit in brackets.]

  100. 100.

    James E Powell

    @Jeffro:

    No disrespect, but I no longer believe that revelations of Trump’s or any Republican’s corruption or criminal conduct presents an opportunity for Democrats to make electoral gains.

  101. 101.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    Deeply discouraging to hear Daniel Goldman earlier today on MSNBC saying it’s highly unlikely that Trump himself will face any charges.  I hope to God he’s dead wrong.  Trump is pure, unadulterated scum with absolutely no redeeming qualities and deserves to die in the slammer.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    There’s a reason criminal enterprises still keep careful books even though they can be used against them if they get caught.  Unlike an ordinary business, where the owner might hope to hire honest people to run things, the owner of a criminal enterprise knows he’s hired a bunch of crooks.  If he doesn’t keep a very close eye on them, they’ll rob him blind.

    I should have said “not an attorney, but I am a tax guy.” Recording an amount as compensation on financial statements and tax returns, but not reconciling this with actual compensation paid is like bonehead stupid. It’s like asking to be caught.

    But I take your other points. Criminal enterprises are businesses and the “best” ones use good accounting practices. Historically some accounting practices used by legitimate businesses can be traced to first or parallel use by criminals.

    And of course for any business it’s not just enough to hire honest people, even honest crooks. Sloppy record keeping and poor internal controls are invitations to theft and embezzling.

  107. 107.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @RobNYNY: CPA and CFO (retired) here. While you are technically correct about the various sets of legitimate books–GAAP, tax, managerial–the phrase “two sets of books” is clearly and commonly understood to mean a criminal effort to hide the truth. Maybe let it go?

  109. 109.

    Gin & Tonic

    @RobNYNY:

    Then that is not clearly expressed by someone who should know better.

    I’m lost. Who is this “someone who should know better”? Because the only place I see the phrase “two sets of books” is on blog comments upthread.

  112. 112.

    lgerard

    Expect Hannity to be discussing the dangers of the radical far left Marxist Critical Accounting Theory tonight.​

  116. 116.

    RaflW

    @Baud: Yup. Finance folks understand that what’s GAAP and what management push out via PR channels are different, but both are in a sense public.

    The Trump Org had a secret set of books that tracked the real costs (and who pocketed the gains).

  117. 117.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @RobNYNY: I also work in a field where terms have definitions that are not the same as those used by laypeople.  Over time I have come to accept that in conversations with laypeople, I  cannot expect the same precision of terminology ithat I find among fellow professionals.  It decreases aggro.

  118. 118.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    Maybe I’m the one misunderstanding.  I thought the Trump Org paid for various things and kept track of them as compensation in their internal records but didn’t report them as income to the IRS.  It sounds as if in many cases they tried to cover this up by paying from a different legal entity that might hope to disguise the payments as some kind of legitimate expense.  I don’t know taxes as well as you do, but that seems like the kind of thing it would take some actual digging to find, and my strong impression is that the IRS has not had the resources to dig for a good long time.  So maybe this could have been caught relatively easily, but they had reason to think nobody would be trying to catch it.

  119. 119.

    Brachiator

    @Gin & Tonic:

    This is why accountants and actuaries are well-known for being the life of the party

    In the history of pop culture, has there ever been a radio show or tv series about a CPA?

    Parry Mesin, CPA, “The Case of the Curious Debit.”

  121. 121.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:

    Well of course. Big banks have a clue. Especially when they loan a lot of money to someone/some company. So I agree with you that it will likely take a conviction, not just an accusation. Taking a plea might do it as well, but betting money on that happening is a fools errand.

    So if we are correct, there needs to be a conviction. What do you suppose the odds are of that? I’d say pretty good. Except, who is going to be on the jury?

  123. 123.

    Jeffro

    @James E Powell: ok – opinions differ  ;)

    There’s a multitude of ways trumpov and the TO collapsing could impact GQP turnout, especially from those infrequent R voters who turned out so strongly in 2020.  Who do they rally behind?  What happens to the party when half can’t let go of dear donald, and half are sprinting away from him?  Etc etc.

    Not all of the GQP is on board with ‘trumpov over party’…and those percentages have been shifting for the past half year.  Let’s see where we are this time next year.

  127. 127.

    WaterGirl

    @Wyatt Salamanca: Goldman, who I really like was, on Tuesday, predicting that the charges were most likely not going to be a big deal, and that the CFO might get off with no prison time, or possibly a year.

    That doesn’t sound like what is happening here, so maybe he’s not as clued in as I expected he would-be.

  129. 129.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    In the history of pop culture, has there ever been a radio show or tv series about a CPA?

    It’s a movie, but Andy Dufresne from The Shawshank Redemption was an accountant, and it was central to the story.

  134. 134.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    and my strong impression is that the IRS has not had the resources to dig for a good long time

    I am lazy and have not been following the Trump case carefully. I thought that these charges were the result of state investigations, not the IRS.

    But yeah, the IRS budget has been starved by the GOP for decades, and so they have not had sufficient resources to do the best job possible in pursuing tax evasion and tax fraud.

    They have also been losing a lot of institutional expertise because of retirements.

  135. 135.

    O. Felix Culpa

     

    @WaterGirl: You are not crazy, at least not on that score. I’m home recuperating. Balloon Juice helps reduce boredom, so keep commenting, folks! ?

  136. 136.

    burnspbesq

    @Ken:

    he might be convicted of something in a few years?

    I think it’s a virtual certainty that if the case goes to trial, Trump will be subpoenaed to testify. I don’t think he’s capable of not committing perjury. I also don’t rule out some sort of half-assed attempt at jury tampering.

  138. 138.

    Cmorenc

    The corporate indictment will have the effect of making it more difficult and expensive for trump,inc to obtain legit financing (most particularly the apx 400 million coming due within the next 1 – 2 years) – which was kind of drying up anyways, and will make trump even more deeply dependent on shady russian mobsters and money laundering schemes to keep afloat.

  140. 140.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    I am lazy and have not been following the Trump case carefully. I thought that these charges were the result of state investigations, not the IRS.

    Exactly.  This wasn’t turned up because of an IRS audit or any normal way this kind of thing would get investigated.  It turned up because Trump decided to paint a bullseye on his back.  If he had stayed in his old line of business, it’s very unlikely it ever would have been looked at.

  141. 141.

    Brachiator

    @NotMax:

    I think that Cher is a bookkeeper in Moonstruck. But one of the guys on Elliott Ness’ team in The Untouchables is a shotgun wielding accountant.

  144. 144.

    JoyceH

    @mrmoshpotato: ​
     

    Kids, if you too are a Soviet shitpile mobster conman, 1. Go fuck yourself! 2. Don’t be a dumbshit and run for high-ranking public office.

    It’s occurred to me recently that Putin is probably looking across the pond and Thinking Thoughtful Thoughts, along the lines of – Trump was a very useful asset for a long time, but he’s already provided all the value that Putin can expect to gain from him, and he’s now a rapidly deteriorating blabbermouth whose ballooning legal troubles might cause problems for some of Putin’s favorite oligarchs. The Secret Service detail will probably protect Trump from “falling out a window”, but a sudden and mysterious illness might be in the works.

  145. 145.

    burnspbesq

    @RobNYNY:

    Technically correct, but both U.S. GAAP and the tax rules require that compensation be accounted for as such. The implicit matching principle is also in play here: if the payor is claiming a deduction, then the payee had damn well better be including it in income.

    Not to mention that “two sets of books” has enormous jury appeal.

  147. 147.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @zhena gogolia: No worries, I appreciate you asking. I’m better than I was before the surgery and I trust that I’ll be feeling normal again soon (using a broad definition of normal).

  149. 149.

    James E Powell

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    While you are technically correct about the various sets of legitimate books–GAAP, tax, managerial–the phrase “two sets of books” is clearly and commonly understood to mean a criminal effort to hide the truth.

    So much so that it is a common trope in TV & movies. See, e.g., Twin Peaks, Season 1.

  152. 152.

    catclub

    @Gin & Tonic: DJT will never see the inside of a prison cell. You can take that to the bank.

     

    I pretty much agree. But if he did, would his Secret Service detail, too, also?

  154. 154.

    Brachiator

    @catclub:

    DJT will never see the inside of a prison cell. You can take that to the bank.

    I pretty much agree. But if he did, would his Secret Service detail, too, also?

    Wow. Can you imagine?

    The idea of Trump or really any former president doing prison time is mind boggling.

  158. 158.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Feathers: Coming in late but Trump’s success with banks has been to threaten [yet another] bankruptcy, which would cause the bank to take a MASSIVE haircut on the loan repayment, in order to get a refinancing of the loan, which is a minor haircut instead.

    The idea of shareholders suing the bank over failing to request books at the first allegation of fraud are interesting but the Orvitz case in Delaware law declared that massive stupidity and judgement objectively worse than 99.9% of sane persons is not “bad faith” and therefore the Delaware corporation wins.

    However, because this case does deal with criminal charges and it appears that the Trump Organization is chartered under New York, rather than Delaware, things might be different.

  160. 160.

    Uncle Omar

    @JoyceH: Especially if they can pin it on The Princess, Uday and Qusay.  Then bring Agent Melania home to a nice dacha in the woods outside of Sochi.

  161. 161.

    Bill Arnold

    @JoyceH:

    The Secret Service detail will probably protect Trump from “falling out a window”, but a sudden and mysterious illness might be in the works.

    A lot of entities would prefer that the mofo be out of the picture, not just Putin. “Natural causes”, yes. (The Iranians must be tempted, but would probably prefer stoking fear and paranoia.)

  162. 162.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @JoyceH: ​

    The Secret Service detail will probably protect Trump from “falling out a window”, but a sudden and mysterious illness might be in the works.

    When has Putin ever killed a no longer useful pawn, especially one in another country? Putin kills Russians who damage his reputation in Russia. I don’t see why Putin would bother ever killing Trump. If Trump spilled every bean about everything he’s done with and for Putin, Putin will laugh because it’s another nail in the coffin of the American public’s trust in the system, and another way to tell his fractious citizens that Democracy sucks and they don’t want it.

  163. 163.

    Just Chuck

    He’s looking at 15 years in prison, but I’m sure TFG’s elite legal team can get him 25.

  164. 164.

    Barry

    @JoyceH: “It’s occurred to me recently that Putin is probably looking across the pond and Thinking Thoughtful Thoughts, along the lines of – Trump was a very useful asset for a long time, but he’s already provided all the value that Putin can expect to gain from him, and he’s now a rapidly deteriorating blabbermouth whose ballooning legal troubles might cause problems for some of Putin’s favorite oligarchs. The Secret Service detail will probably protect Trump from “falling out a window”, but a sudden and mysterious illness might be in the works”

     

    He is still causing a lot of trouble, and is very useful to Putin.  If Putin could award him the current version of Hero of the Soviet Union, he would.

  165. 165.

    tokyokie

    So can the charges in the indictment be used to have Trump Org declared an ongoing interstate criminal enterprise per the federal RICO statute?

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