I was afraid this was going to be a slap on the wrist with charges only related to free rent for family, etc. But a 15-year tax fraud scheme ought to mean serious business.
Balloon Juice attorneys, what say you?
I need to find a better photo of the perp walk, but this will do for now.
Here we go pic.twitter.com/ZWiVCc8kKy
— Acyn (@Acyn) July 1, 2021
Trump Organization and CFO Allen Weisselberg arraigned on multiple criminal charges as prosecutors alleged a 15-year tax fraud scheme (Washington Post)
Prosecutors charged the Trump Organization with a 15-year “scheme to defraud” the government and its chief financial officer with grand larceny and tax fraud in a Manhattan courtroom on Thursday, describing what they said was a wide-ranging effort to hide income from tax authorities.
In charging papers, prosecutors alleged that Allen Weisselberg, former president Donald Trump’s longtime CFO, had avoided more than $900,000 in taxes by concealing the value of benefits he got from Trump’s company — including a free apartment, free Mercedes-Benz cars, new furniture and tuition payments for his relatives.
In internal records, the Trump Organization treated these benefits as part of Weisselberg’s compensation, prosecutors said. But it did not report them to taxing authorities, allowing Weisselberg and the company to avoid taxes, the documents said.
Link to the Kurt Eichenwald thread reader post
Open thread.
Doug R
AW is acting like he’s more afraid of the Russian mob than a stretch in prison.
Omnes Omnibus
Next stop: Direct links to Donald and/or the rest of the clan.
Mary G
Somewhere in hell Al Capone is shaking his head and rolling his eyes.
jackmac
About (bleeping) time.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doug R: That is understandable.
Omnes Omnibus
@jackmac: Do you want done yesterday or do you want it done right?
Mike in NC
As somebody here used to write: Tick Tock, Motherfucker!
germy
Here’s video:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Grand Larceny (2nd degree?) sounds like a big deal to me, Daniel Goldman (chief counsel, I believe, to the first trump Impeachment managers) was kind of pooh-poohing it, speculating that Weisselberg is betting he can gut it out, as jail time would not be typical in a case like this.
JPL
@Omnes Omnibus: I assume that the clan is concerned, because if Weisselberg was paid under the table, you know the rest were.
Who’s is unindicted co-conpriator #1?
WaterGirl
@germy: thanks germy. I added that tweet up top.
JoyceH
What astonished me was the two sets of books. How… trite! It’s like someone thought, well, this is how the mob does it…
David Anderson
@JPL: Likely the accounting firm (MAZARS)
germy
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, he was on Preet’s podcast this week, saying that, so I wasn’t expecting much.
Jeffro
Kurt Eichenwald has a really good tweet-thread up (it’s only 14 or so tweets; be brave, people!) about how this essentially spells the end of the trumpov Org as a business entity, since it’s been falsifying its records for (checks indictment) 15 years or more.
Of course, it ceased to be a ‘normal’ business entity a long, long time ago. But still, great news here.
Baud
This just proves that taxes are too damn high!
germy
Jeffro
Huge opportunity here for Dems, btw: “This is how people like Donald trumpov and others get rich and stay rich – they do everything they can to avoid paying the taxes that they owe, sometimes to the point of breaking the law with these wacky, criminal schemes. Unlike the rest of us!”
Wouldn’t hurt to have a pitchfork handy, although it’s too dry for a torch.
WaterGirl
@Jeffro: Thanks. I just linked to the thread reader app for Eichenwald’s twitter thread. (up top in the post)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@germy: So Trump basically expects his staff to commit fraud so he has something to hold over them. Makes you wander what else this guy was up too,
WaterGirl
@germy:
PPCLI
@JPL: Rumour is that it is the guy who was the Trump Org. comptroller for 30 years.
germy
@WaterGirl:
New York state and federal income taxes…
Jeffro
btw I just saw a Lincoln Project clip featuring Qevin McCarthy raising all kinds of “questions” about what happened on January 6th and saying that the lack of National Guard deployment at the Capitol “caused” insurrection (much like having a single security guard at a bank “causes” it to be robbed, I guess?) and whew I am maaaaaaaaad.
If he has “questions”…maybe a bipartisan investigation of 1/6 could have gotten him some “answers”??!!?
JPL
@Jeffro: According to the link
If that’s true, trump is done.
germy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Maybe insisting on “posture photos” like Yale used to? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
A Ghost to Most
The indictments reference a co-conspirator #1, and Tom Winter was informed it wasn’t OA. Could be Jeff McConney, who apparently knew almost as much as AW. Is he the first to flip?
Eta corrected McConney’s first name
Baud
I’m glad to see them all in masks.
hells littlest angel
Covid’s silver lining: criminals no longer need to cover their faces with newspapers when being perp-walked.
Jeffro
@WaterGirl: very cool – thank you!
Roger Moore
@Doug R:
I remember when Michael Cohen was indicted, there was video of him going down and meeting other mob members, who were very friendly. Getting indicted and spending some time in prison is a known risk of the job. Facing it well is an important way to prove to the rest of the gang that you’re able to keep your mouth shut when under pressure. I don’t think they really trust someone who hasn’t done some time; I’m not sure I would if I were in their position.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jeffro: I hope he’s right. Reminds me of the scene in the Wolf Hall trilogy when More says to the Earl of Derby (IIRC), it’s one thing to fuck with the king, you’ve fucked with the bankers…
also an undeveloped theme in Game of Thrones, at least the TV version
Ken
@JPL: Done as in prosecutions will proceed, and he might be convicted of something in a few years?
Or done as in has become a liability to various powerful people, and might have an accident where he falls backward onto the spire of Norwich Cathedral?
Jeffro
@JPL: yup
No more “we have all the financing we need out of Russia”
flee, donnie, flee you fucking scumbag
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
I am less certain this spells the end of the Trump Organization as a business entity. Yes, it would be really bad if the Trump Organization were a regular business with loans from regular banks. But AFAIK, Trump hasn’t been in that kind of business for a while. He’s dealing only with the kinds of banks who know he’s doing shady shit, and the loans to him are probably part of complex money laundering systems. They aren’t going to pull their loans just because he’s been falsifying business records, because his business records aren’t what they really care about.
Baud
I like that the charges are fairly simple to understand. It’s not hard to grasp keeping two sets of books.
germy
That’s business as usual when the lights are out, but with a spotlight pointed at the org, wouldn’t the cockroaches scatter?
JPL
@Ken: Although I was referring to the trump org, why not all of the above.
germy
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
If you are right, and it’s certainly possible because SFB never does business in any reasonable way, very likely is no where near normal business practices, like not within a million miles of them and if he is figuratively in bed with a foreign entity, because all other avenues of finance are closed to him and has been cooking the books (with oxy/acetylene torch level cooking) that will change a lot. But because he’s an idiot, he likely didn’t even do that well, so I suspect that he will be done. And after all, what was it that got Al Capone in the end?
scav
Well, as the GOP and MAGAts always trumpeted they wanted government run as a business, it’ll undoubtedly be edifying to make abundantly clear just what businesses and business practices they had in mind as ideals.
dr. bloor
@Roger Moore: I’m not expecting the organization to close it’s doors either, although it will be interesting to see how many (and which) shady overseas entities want to be seen shopping at Don’s Famous and Extremely Well-Lit Money Laundering Emporium.
germy
dr. bloor
@germy:
If AW is determined to take one for the team, I hope at sentencing time the judge decides that he’s going to make sure AW takes one for the whole team, preferably with consecutive sentences.
bbleh
@JoyceH: @Baud: I know, right? It really is as they say, cops’ best friends are the dumb crooks.
VeniceRiley
@Mike in NC: Tik Tok, Novichok!
catclub
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes
bbleh
@VeniceRiley: Lol
germy
Philbert
Maybe most of his ‘lenders’ will hang on but there may be enough of them trying to appear respectable that will balk and call their loans, leaving him like a garage after a swimming pool fell through it.
bbleh
@germy: Yeah, also Fred made money. Does this suggest a pattern?
catclub
@Jeffro:
This reminds me that Kuwait was invaded because April Glaspie took the wrong attitude into a diplomatic meeting. Saddam had nothing to do with it.
catclub
I was convinced in June 2016 that Trump could not survive the fall national campaign.
Edmund Dantes
Is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy? – Stringer Bell
https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1410676908103286785?s=21
J R in WV
@Roger Moore:
Actually, banks involved in “funny” business might be more inclined to yank all support from someone going under a microscope, like TFG ans his company.
More to fear from all the investigators examining the books, both sets!!
germy
Ruckus
@catclub:
SFB has lived outside normalcy in most every way possible for his entire life. It’s the thing he’s best at. Of course his best is………
Baud
@germy:
Yeah, it’s hard to believe that the organization engaged in this simplistic tax fraud scheme but did everything else by the book.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
Obviously, a conviction will shut the business down. But I think it’s going to take a conviction to make that happen, not just an accusation. I think it’s reasonable to assume that any bank that has been lending money to the Trump Organization is well aware of its shady dealings and went ahead anyway. It’s going to take a lot more to scare them away than an indictment.
Baud
As if on cue:
Redshift
I’m just amused at how much Weisselberg looks like Capone’s accountant in The Untouchables.
Ms. Redshift says if the endless Trump scandals were Stupid Watergate, this should be The Stupid Untouchables.
mrmoshpotato
I see you read Kurt’s thread too.
Tick tock, motherfuckers!
mrmoshpotato
@Redshift:
Hahaha, bravo!
catclub
@Edmund Dantes: yeah, that ledger of in kind items credited to Weisselbergs income by the Trump Org is taking notes on a criminal conspiracy.
Baud
No wonder Trump’s taxes have been under audit for so long!
Faithful Lurker
@Ruckus: Okay, I’m confused. Remind me, please, who is SFB?
Thanks.
Ken
@Baud: “Corporations immediately began examining the corporate laws in the other 65 nations with an eye to relocating.”
RobNYNY
@JoyceH: Any well managed company has at least three sets of books: Financial accounting governed by Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, federal tax accounting governed by the IRS Code, and managerial accounting not governed by any body of law but whatever is best for the internal use of the company. If a company is multistate or multinational it might have a separate set of tax books for each state or country. The assertion that the Trump Organization had two sets of books is not indicative of any wrongdoing. I think that there is plenty of evidence of wrongdoing in this case, but having two sets of books is not evidence of that.
zhena gogolia
@hells littlest angel: lol
Brachiator
Not an attorney, but this seems like a stupid thing to do, something that can easily be checked.
Baud
@RobNYNY:
I hear what you’re saying, but the phrase “two sets of books” usually refers to fake accounting vs real accounting, not legitimate use of different accounting methods for different legal purposes.
frosty
@Faithful Lurker: I had to figure it out. Shit For Brains is my guess.
WaterGirl
@Baud: That seems like a big Joe Biden deal to me. To you, also?
catclub
@RobNYNY: But all three sets of those books still agree on totals, just format them differently. The point of criminal double books is that they don’t match.
Elizabelle
@Faithful Lurker: Shit for Brains. As in, TFG or TFFG.
trumpCameron
@Faithful Lurker: I’m guessing Shit For Brains, but I don’t know.
WaterGirl
@Faithful Lurker: I get so frustrated with acronyms.
I believe Ruckus is using that as shorthand for the name he likes to call Trump.
zhena gogolia
@Faithful Lurker:
Yeah, I have no idea. These acronyms are annoying.
mrmoshpotato
@germy:
But we’re talking about a Soviet shitpile mobster conman here.
Kids, if you too are a Soviet shitpile mobster conman, 1. Go fuck yourself! 2. Don’t be a dumbshit and run for high-ranking public office.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
It’s a step. Still a long way to go.
mrmoshpotato
@JPL:
Time for a fire-all-this-traitorous-orange-mobster-shit-into-the-Sun sale.
Feathers
@Roger Moore: The Eichenwald thread says why not. Count 12 is that the Trump Org falsified business records.
There are enough banks who Trvmp Org does owe money to and they have shareholders. Even if they don’t, it will look very suspicious if they don’t demand the Trvmp Org books. Basically a confession that they were in on the fraud. If they want to claim they were duped, they have to underbus TFG.
https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1410681545724252168?s=20
ETA: fix wording.
RobNYNY
@catclub: Not at all. Generally speaking: Financial accounting seeks to maximize revenue and minimize deductions [to increase income].Tax accounting seeks to minimize revenue and maximize deductions [to reduce income]. Managerial accounting doesn’t have either goal. [Edits in brackets.]
Feathers
@RobNYNY: Count 12 in the charges is falsifying business records.https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1410682651489546242?s=20
This is beyond normal reporting the same information in different ways to different entities.
mrmoshpotato
@scav:
These mobster shitstains so badly wanted to turn the US into Russia.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
There’s a reason criminal enterprises still keep careful books even though they can be used against them if they get caught. Unlike an ordinary business, where the owner might hope to hire honest people to run things, the owner of a criminal enterprise knows he’s hired a bunch of crooks. If he doesn’t keep a very close eye on them, they’ll rob him blind. Avoiding the present problem of employees stealing everything they can is more important than the future problem of providing evidence for the authorities if you’re indicted.
zhena gogolia
@mrmoshpotato:
Everything they do has that goal.
All this “critical race theory” stuff is just like the laws against promoting homosexuality to young people in Russia. They’re so vague and all-inclusive that you can’t say anything without running afoul of it.
Faithful Lurker
Now I see. Shit for brains, it is. I’ll remember that. Thanks.
zhena gogolia
RobNYNY
@Feathers: That is different from accusing the TO of having two sets of books. Falsification is not the same as the difference between GAAP and the IRS Code.
zhena gogolia
Twitter failure.
O. Felix Culpa
@germy: Daniel Shaviro is a classmate of mine. A verrry smart guy who knows his tax law. He also has a cat, so clearly a good guy too.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
I think the Democrats should focus carefully on issues of tax fraud and criminal tax evasion. But even here, a lot of people don’t get fired up about this.
There is nothing wrong or illegal about legal tax avoidance. No one is obligated to pay more than they have to.
But there are some conservatives who hate the federal government and who like to drone on about how the gummint wastes taxpayers’ money. So they will stupidly excuse tax fraud.
And then there are dopes who envy the rich and actually applaud it when they pull these schemes. These people would do the same thing if they magically became billionaires.
hilts
A song to accompany this beautiful perp walk photo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dur0s9SMxFE
Enjoy your stay in prison asshole!
Omnes Omnibus
@RobNYNY: Yes, but when people talk about having two sets of books that’s not what they mean. One set of books would constitute the accurate financial, tax, and managerial books and the other the ones for show.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: Avoidance is what everyone legitimately tries to do. Evasion is another thing entirely (and illegal).
debbie
@germy:
She’s definitely not closing up shop anytime soon.
RobNYNY
@Omnes Omnibus: Then that is not clearly expressed by someone who should know better. He should have said that the books were falsified. Otherwise, to professionals it just looks like he doesn’t understand accounting. It doesn’t express anything useful to non-professionals. And it is objectively wrong. [There is much evidence of wrongdoing without mischacterization]. [Edit in brackets.]
James E Powell
@Jeffro:
No disrespect, but I no longer believe that revelations of Trump’s or any Republican’s corruption or criminal conduct presents an opportunity for Democrats to make electoral gains.
Wyatt Salamanca
Deeply discouraging to hear Daniel Goldman earlier today on MSNBC saying it’s highly unlikely that Trump himself will face any charges. I hope to God he’s dead wrong. Trump is pure, unadulterated scum with absolutely no redeeming qualities and deserves to die in the slammer.
Gin & Tonic
@Wyatt Salamanca: I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: DJT will never see the inside of a prison cell. You can take that to the bank.
dr. bloor
@mrmoshpotato:
It’s not clear yet that they haven’t succeeded.
Omnes Omnibus
@RobNYNY: See Baud’s comment at 72.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
I should have said “not an attorney, but I am a tax guy.” Recording an amount as compensation on financial statements and tax returns, but not reconciling this with actual compensation paid is like bonehead stupid. It’s like asking to be caught.
But I take your other points. Criminal enterprises are businesses and the “best” ones use good accounting practices. Historically some accounting practices used by legitimate businesses can be traced to first or parallel use by criminals.
And of course for any business it’s not just enough to hire honest people, even honest crooks. Sloppy record keeping and poor internal controls are invitations to theft and embezzling.
debbie
@Baud:
Almost a weekly occurrence in the Law and Order series.
O. Felix Culpa
@RobNYNY: CPA and CFO (retired) here. While you are technically correct about the various sets of legitimate books–GAAP, tax, managerial–the phrase “two sets of books” is clearly and commonly understood to mean a criminal effort to hide the truth. Maybe let it go?
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia: Ummm….oops?
Dump: That was Don Jr!!!
Gin & Tonic
@RobNYNY:
I’m lost. Who is this “someone who should know better”? Because the only place I see the phrase “two sets of books” is on blog comments upthread.
Gin & Tonic
@O. Felix Culpa: This is why accountants and actuaries are well-known for being the life of the party.
RobNYNY
@Omnes Omnibus: i have.
lgerard
Expect Hannity to be discussing the dangers of the radical far left Marxist Critical Accounting Theory tonight.
O. Felix Culpa
@Gin & Tonic: LOL. That must be why my social calendar is so…not full.
debbie
@Baud:
Does this mean that corporations will be forced to relocate to shithole countries? //
mrmoshpotato
@dr. bloor: True with all of the state-level fuckery. I should’ve used the present tense.
RaflW
@Baud: Yup. Finance folks understand that what’s GAAP and what management push out via PR channels are different, but both are in a sense public.
The Trump Org had a secret set of books that tracked the real costs (and who pocketed the gains).
Omnes Omnibus
@RobNYNY: I also work in a field where terms have definitions that are not the same as those used by laypeople. Over time I have come to accept that in conversations with laypeople, I cannot expect the same precision of terminology ithat I find among fellow professionals. It decreases aggro.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Maybe I’m the one misunderstanding. I thought the Trump Org paid for various things and kept track of them as compensation in their internal records but didn’t report them as income to the IRS. It sounds as if in many cases they tried to cover this up by paying from a different legal entity that might hope to disguise the payments as some kind of legitimate expense. I don’t know taxes as well as you do, but that seems like the kind of thing it would take some actual digging to find, and my strong impression is that the IRS has not had the resources to dig for a good long time. So maybe this could have been caught relatively easily, but they had reason to think nobody would be trying to catch it.
Brachiator
@Gin & Tonic:
In the history of pop culture, has there ever been a radio show or tv series about a CPA?
Parry Mesin, CPA, “The Case of the Curious Debit.”
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus: thank you
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
Well of course. Big banks have a clue. Especially when they loan a lot of money to someone/some company. So I agree with you that it will likely take a conviction, not just an accusation. Taking a plea might do it as well, but betting money on that happening is a fools errand.
So if we are correct, there needs to be a conviction. What do you suppose the odds are of that? I’d say pretty good. Except, who is going to be on the jury?
Baud
@Brachiator:
There was an Ben Affleck movie called The Accountant.
Jeffro
@James E Powell: ok – opinions differ ;)
There’s a multitude of ways trumpov and the TO collapsing could impact GQP turnout, especially from those infrequent R voters who turned out so strongly in 2020. Who do they rally behind? What happens to the party when half can’t let go of dear donald, and half are sprinting away from him? Etc etc.
Not all of the GQP is on board with ‘trumpov over party’…and those percentages have been shifting for the past half year. Let’s see where we are this time next year.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: But he had an interesting sideline.
dr. bloor
@Brachiator: We’ll always have Rick Moranis’s star turn in “Ghostbusters.”
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa: Am I crazy or did you just have an appendectomy? If so, I am thrilled for you that you are well enough to be engaged and commenting again. Or are you still waiting?
WaterGirl
@Wyatt Salamanca: Goldman, who I really like was, on Tuesday, predicting that the charges were most likely not going to be a big deal, and that the CFO might get off with no prison time, or possibly a year.
That doesn’t sound like what is happening here, so maybe he’s not as clued in as I expected he would-be.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Wha?!
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
It’s a movie, but Andy Dufresne from The Shawshank Redemption was an accountant, and it was central to the story.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: He was a banker.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I experienced the same thing as you, but in a completely different field. You really do kind of need to learn to let it go, because it will always be thus.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Surely I did not make this up?
edit: Just confirmed that I did not make this up.
NotMax
@Brachiator
Lots.
For starters, The Producers, Moonstruck and Midnight Run.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
I am lazy and have not been following the Trump case carefully. I thought that these charges were the result of state investigations, not the IRS.
But yeah, the IRS budget has been starved by the GOP for decades, and so they have not had sufficient resources to do the best job possible in pursuing tax evasion and tax fraud.
They have also been losing a lot of institutional expertise because of retirements.
O. Felix Culpa
@WaterGirl: You are not crazy, at least not on that score. I’m home recuperating. Balloon Juice helps reduce boredom, so keep commenting, folks! ?
burnspbesq
@Ken:
I think it’s a virtual certainty that if the case goes to trial, Trump will be subpoenaed to testify. I don’t think he’s capable of not committing perjury. I also don’t rule out some sort of half-assed attempt at jury tampering.
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa: I’m so glad you are home and on the mend. The whole experience must have been quite distressing.
Cmorenc
The corporate indictment will have the effect of making it more difficult and expensive for trump,inc to obtain legit financing (most particularly the apx 400 million coming due within the next 1 – 2 years) – which was kind of drying up anyways, and will make trump even more deeply dependent on shady russian mobsters and money laundering schemes to keep afloat.
Miss Bianca
@Ruckus: What does SFB mean – Oh, wait. I think I’ve got it. Neb’ mind.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Exactly. This wasn’t turned up because of an IRS audit or any normal way this kind of thing would get investigated. It turned up because Trump decided to paint a bullseye on his back. If he had stayed in his old line of business, it’s very unlikely it ever would have been looked at.
Brachiator
@NotMax:
I think that Cher is a bookkeeper in Moonstruck. But one of the guys on Elliott Ness’ team in The Untouchables is a shotgun wielding accountant.
O. Felix Culpa
@WaterGirl: It was definitely a surprise. The hospital care was very good though, for which I’m grateful.
zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa:
How are you
Sorry, should have read the whole thread!
JoyceH
@mrmoshpotato:
It’s occurred to me recently that Putin is probably looking across the pond and Thinking Thoughtful Thoughts, along the lines of – Trump was a very useful asset for a long time, but he’s already provided all the value that Putin can expect to gain from him, and he’s now a rapidly deteriorating blabbermouth whose ballooning legal troubles might cause problems for some of Putin’s favorite oligarchs. The Secret Service detail will probably protect Trump from “falling out a window”, but a sudden and mysterious illness might be in the works.
burnspbesq
@RobNYNY:
Technically correct, but both U.S. GAAP and the tax rules require that compensation be accounted for as such. The implicit matching principle is also in play here: if the payor is claiming a deduction, then the payee had damn well better be including it in income.
Not to mention that “two sets of books” has enormous jury appeal.
burnspbesq
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Trump is still in a metric fuckton of criminal jeopardy in Georgia over the Famous Phone Call.
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: No worries, I appreciate you asking. I’m better than I was before the surgery and I trust that I’ll be feeling normal again soon (using a broad definition of normal).
Miss Bianca
@WaterGirl:
@O. Felix Culpa:
I too am glad to note you are on the mend, O. Felix!
James E Powell
@O. Felix Culpa:
So much so that it is a common trope in TV & movies. See, e.g., Twin Peaks, Season 1.
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa: Glad to hear that.
Dan B
@O. Felix Culpa: Good to hear that you are home after good care. And good to read that BJ reduces boredom!
catclub
I pretty much agree. But if he did, would his Secret Service detail, too, also?
O. Felix Culpa
@WaterGirl: Thanks! I appreciate the concern and good wishes from you and the rest of the tenderhearted jackals.
Brachiator
@catclub:
DJT will never see the inside of a prison cell. You can take that to the bank.
Wow. Can you imagine?
The idea of Trump or really any former president doing prison time is mind boggling.
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa: Well, we appreciate you. :-)
Kristine
Shirtsleeves to orange jumpsuits in three generations.
RaflW
@JoyceH: My sense is that Putin’s main goal is chaos in the West. TFG is still useful for sowing discord.
Anonymous At Work
@Feathers: Coming in late but Trump’s success with banks has been to threaten [yet another] bankruptcy, which would cause the bank to take a MASSIVE haircut on the loan repayment, in order to get a refinancing of the loan, which is a minor haircut instead.
The idea of shareholders suing the bank over failing to request books at the first allegation of fraud are interesting but the Orvitz case in Delaware law declared that massive stupidity and judgement objectively worse than 99.9% of sane persons is not “bad faith” and therefore the Delaware corporation wins.
However, because this case does deal with criminal charges and it appears that the Trump Organization is chartered under New York, rather than Delaware, things might be different.
Just One More Canuck
@O. Felix Culpa: but ‘technically correct’ is the best kind of correct
Uncle Omar
@JoyceH: Especially if they can pin it on The Princess, Uday and Qusay. Then bring Agent Melania home to a nice dacha in the woods outside of Sochi.
Bill Arnold
@JoyceH:
A lot of entities would prefer that the mofo be out of the picture, not just Putin. “Natural causes”, yes. (The Iranians must be tempted, but would probably prefer stoking fear and paranoia.)
Frankensteinbeck
@JoyceH:
When has Putin ever killed a no longer useful pawn, especially one in another country? Putin kills Russians who damage his reputation in Russia. I don’t see why Putin would bother ever killing Trump. If Trump spilled every bean about everything he’s done with and for Putin, Putin will laugh because it’s another nail in the coffin of the American public’s trust in the system, and another way to tell his fractious citizens that Democracy sucks and they don’t want it.
Just Chuck
He’s looking at 15 years in prison, but I’m sure TFG’s elite legal team can get him 25.
Barry
@JoyceH: “It’s occurred to me recently that Putin is probably looking across the pond and Thinking Thoughtful Thoughts, along the lines of – Trump was a very useful asset for a long time, but he’s already provided all the value that Putin can expect to gain from him, and he’s now a rapidly deteriorating blabbermouth whose ballooning legal troubles might cause problems for some of Putin’s favorite oligarchs. The Secret Service detail will probably protect Trump from “falling out a window”, but a sudden and mysterious illness might be in the works”
He is still causing a lot of trouble, and is very useful to Putin. If Putin could award him the current version of Hero of the Soviet Union, he would.
tokyokie
So can the charges in the indictment be used to have Trump Org declared an ongoing interstate criminal enterprise per the federal RICO statute?