When the invisible hand gets sick of the spreadneck’s bullshit, this is what happens:
United Airlines Holdings Inc. will require its 67,000 U.S. employees to be vaccinated this fall, the first major airline to take this step as the Delta variant drives a nationwide increase in Covid-19 infections.
Airlines including United have so far tried to encourage workers to be vaccinated voluntarily, with incentives such as bonus pay or extra vacation.
In a letter to employees Friday, Chief Executive Scott Kirby and President Brett Hart said they expected that some would disagree with the decision but said the move was necessary to keep workers safe.
“The facts are crystal clear: everyone is safer when everyone is vaccinated,” the executives wrote. “Over the last 16 months, Scott has sent dozens of condolences letters to the family members of United employees who have died from COVID-19. We’re determined to do everything we can to try to keep another United family from receiving that letter.”
Mr. Kirby has been vocal about wanting his entire workforce to be vaccinated but had said earlier this year that such a requirement would be hard to implement if other companies weren’t also requiring vaccines. United has since June required that only newly hired employees be vaccinated, a policy that Delta Air Lines Inc. also implemented.
As with most everything, deniers and imbeciles may not believe the numbers, but the accountants and actuaries do, and it won’t be long before most major American corporations go all “fuck your feelings” and mandate vaccines. Honestly, I’m a little bit surprised the health insurance companies aren’t already there, because spending 5 million dollars to keep some imbecile alive because they wouldn’t get a thirty cent shot is the kind of thing that motivates them.
Baud
Via LGM
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
I just read that CNN fired three employees who wouldn’t get vaccinated and was thinking that vaccination firings will be a great way to purge organizations of assholes. You have to be a pretty big jerk to come to work unvaccinated when your employer mandates it. I’ll bet a good number of their coworkers were relieved.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/06/cnn-vaccination-reopening-mandate/
The Thin Black Duke
Sooner or later, the big corporations are gonna put the brakes on the anti-vaxx bullshit because it’s costing them money. The lives saved are just incidental.
Chief Oshkosh
Yep. Mandates by private employers, mandates for social activities (dining out, etc.), federal “fuck your feelings” programs (because I like alliteration), all will save lives*. Then, when the whack jobs are really whining, announce that starting two months from now, all unused vaccines will be shipped to Mexico and Central and South America and that after that, you are personally fucked and welcome to find vaccines in the open market at open market prices. Exceptions will be for those below the currently approved age for vaccination.
*ETA: As Thin Black Dude says, possibly incidental to save Big Corps money.
Wag
I’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. Break out the sticks.
Chat Noir
I was wondering this same thing too.
Pennsylvanian
My sister and her husband are hosting what I predict will be a super spreader event tonight for my niece’s birthday. None of their 5 family members are vaccinated and they are having an additional 20 people come to the party.
I asked what their COVID protocol was going to be and she said, “um, nothing.” That was all I needed to know.
I hope they have their wills up to date, and that I don’t lose my nieces and nephew.
The time for carrots is over.
Anonymous At Work
I asked David Anderson about the health insurance part for the same reason, and it’s just too complicated to make that change quickly, cleanly and neatly. Especially if there are legitimate medical exemptions and a small handful of legitimate religious ones.
Frankly, most of the action starts with full formal FDA approval. I can imagine that the NTSA/FAA will preempt United, start in harder on cruises, etc. Hell, set up COVID testing stations at truck weigh stations and make unvaxxed truckers wait for a negative test before weighing-in.
States have some ability to hold-out on federal all-but-mandates, for example like setting the drinking age at 21, certain federal education requirements, etc. (South Dakota v. Dole line of cases) But in the realm of public health, there are clear-as-day exemptions and exceptions for the federal government to really squeeze states harder.
Anonymous At Work
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Military vaccination orders. I am hoping a ton of MAGAts and other Nazi-wannabes decide to quit. Win-win.
MattF
Biggest non-profit long-term care company will require vaccination.
ETA: Oops. ‘One of the largest…’.
raven
@Anonymous At Work: They can’t “quit”.
zhena gogolia
Reposting from below.
Is capitalism going to save us all? (Very “neoliberal” of me, I know.)
Mary G
A+, Must be in rotation, I nominated.
Anonymous At Work
@raven: You are correct, that was my shortcut wording. They will be given a direct order. They will refuse the direct order. They will receive counseling that will counsel them to obey the direct order. They will refuse again. They will be subject to disciplinary discharge for refusing to obey a direct order.
Either way, “I hope you had the time of your life,” as Green Day put it.
narya
My organization is requiring vaccinations as well. People have until September to vax up. There’s a little wiggle room–not canning people who are in the process but haven’t met the completion deadline just yet, and ability to request exemption on religious grounds, etc.–but they’re willing to fire folks who don’t do it.
Mary G
@Anonymous At Work: Cops, too. Let ’em quit and replace with social assistance in mental health, jobs, housing, and other more useful programs.
wvng
@Pennsylvanian: I am deeply sorry about this. Utterly foolish, utterly unnecessary, and if one of them gets really ill will we have to endure yet another “guess I should have been vaccinated” spots on teevee. I hope your niece and nephew do fine.
UncleEbeneezer
My wife works for Viacom. Yesterday one of the big wigs announced on a Facebook live session that employees will be required to be vaccinated to come to the office during the current Yellow phase of getting back to the office (which won’t effect my wife as she can work from home). And predictably, all the anti-vax employees started throwing a fit and threatening to sue etc., in the chat.
Fair Economist
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
I suspect in some cases this is the *primary* intent. An antivaxxer has to be pretty gullible or deranged and they’re not nice to be around.
Although, TBF, with something like an airline making sure sane customers aren’t afraid to use your services is really important. Not so much with CNN, of course.
JPEG
I read somewhere, can’t recall where, and the person was talking about how health insurance agencies can’t really require shots as a prerequisite for having health insurance because of the ACA rule against restrictions due to preexisting conditions. I wasn’t sold, but if it’s actually true, we should start crowdfunding commercials about how the ACA is saving them from having to get the vaccine. That should make some heads explode.
ET
Someone had to be first- wonder if Delta will follow. I suspect that we are at the beginning of businesses big/small making vaccines mandatory.
In DC several restaurants are making proof of vaccine a requirement for staff and patrons and the theaters like Shakespeare united and they went as one to do it.
The Moar You Know
My workplace will be implementing this the day Pfizer (s/b a couple of weeks) goes off EUA. We are probably going to end up having to fire about 10% of the workforce, which in a 100-person small business is going to be very hard to deal with. But there is no other way; we did our part. The unvaxxed are not only not doing theirs, they’re killing others in the process. Won’t stand for that.
Kelly
@Wag: Carrot sticks?
UncleEbeneezer
@The Thin Black Duke: Just lay off all unvaccinated employees (unless medically exempt) and call it a “Reorganization.”
Gin & Tonic
I worked most of my life around actuaries, and for a time thought of taking that path as well. They have less than zero sense of humor, but they are almost invariably right, and the C-level decision makers listen to them.
UncleEbeneezer
@ET: We want our employees to have Delta in their spirit, not their lungs.
dww44
@Pennsylvanian: I take it that you aren’t invited?
superdestroyer
To show the odd intersection of politics and pandemic, Healthcare Corporation of America (HCA) the largest hospital chain in the U.S. still does not require immunizations of care providers. There are probably two reasons: First, the corporate headquarters is in Tennessee and Tennessee has been a hot bed of Covid-19 trutherism. Second, HCA owns multiple hospitals in Florida and Texas and probably does not want the political fight and future retaliation from the Republican controlled state governments.
Sure Lurkalot
My 30 year old nephew reports that many people in his cohort will not get vaxxed. The usual gamut of reasons…not approved, my body, can’t trust, etc. Carrots will not work. Withholding the privilege of mingling with the rest of society is the choice they have left themselves and us.
Hoodie
The regular FDA approval thing has been a red herring for a while now. The issue for vaccine mandates boils down to whether it would be accepted industry practice to require vaccination and there is reasonable evidence that the vaccines are safe and effective. Yes, regular FDA approval is one way to meet that burden, but there are all different kinds of ways to skin that particular cat. There is already a mountain of evidence that the vaccines are safe and that they are very effective given the huge disparity in hospitalizations and death between vaccinated and unvacinnated. The other thing is that employers could begin to face liability from vaccinated employees for failing to ensure a safe work environment by allowing unvaccinated workers in the workplace with the presence of a small, but not insignificant numbers of breakthrough infections (testing is insufficient to halt delta from what I’ve seen). What started out as a trickle will become a flood in short order.
Elizabelle
@UncleEbeneezer:
Brilliant!
A Ghost to Most
This is what happens when you coddle and enable God Botherers.
Fake Irishman
@Chat Noir:
that would be the ACA.
Kent
My wife is a physician for a large HMO here on the west coast. This week they finally announced a vaccine mandate for all employees with no exceptions other than medical.
Predictably she is getting a flood of bullshit requests for medical exemption letters from nurses and other employees who also happen to be her patients. She is denying them gleefully. Her administration even gave them the boilerplate denial language so they don’t have to waste time writing it themselves. Probably vetted by lawyers to make it more bulletproof. Staff who don’t comply will be laid off.
Yes, here in a blue state there are still a shitload of nurses who should fucking know better. She says it is mostly nurses who live in bumfuck rural parts of the county and are married to MAGA assholes. Apparently there are a lot of them. Here in Clark County (suburban Vancouver WA) we have rural fringes of the county where vaccination rates are in the 20s and where MAGA support is in the high 70s, as red as deepest Alabama frankly.
Patrianakos
@superdestroyer: Third, they’re probably already understaffed and sure don’t want to get into a bidding war to replace the refusers.
zhena gogolia
@A Ghost to Most:
So God botherers are to blame for what Sure Lurkalot is talking about in #29? Or is it just your obsession?
catclub
30 cents a shot….
I was wondering how much those vaccines actually cost per shot. anybody know if the contracts are relatively public?
The Dangerman
The ignorance on this issue is mind numbing. Some things aren’t about freedom, assholes. I don’t get to come to work bare ass without pants. Some things will be required. Too bad for the holes.
smith
It was inevitable that the MOTU would eventually figure out that pandemics are bad for business (and prolonged pandemics much worse for business than temporary shutdowns or masking mandates). I was hoping that after 1/6 they’d realize that civil war is also very bad for business, but it seems like they’re not quite there yet.
Ken
@Chief Oshkosh: Anne Laurie’s morning roundup included this report that the administration will be offering vaccinations to migrants at the border, so we may see some exploding heads soon.
The best part is that if any GQPers object, it can be framed as a response to their previous claims that the surge in cases is due to immigrants at the border.
Elizabelle
Anne’s morning COVID update today, and the Filipinos flocking by the thousands to vaccination sites because of fake news they would lose some government aid money and be confined to their homes. I was thinking: mandates. They would work. Enough with the carrots; bring the big stick. We’ve coddled the willfully stupid and delusional long enough.
Here’s the AP story. I wonder which vaccines the Philippines is using; not stated in this article.
Thousands jam Philippine vaccination sites over false news
Anonymous At Work
@Mary G: Cops probably have a union contract. Unclear about civil service unions vs. DHSS jackbooted groups like ICE, CBP, etc. that enabled Trump. Any and all that get an order, refuse it, and get washed out, the better.
The Moar You Know
@catclub: Cost to the government or cost to produce? The first is public info. About $20/shot Pfizer, $15/shot for Moderna.
The second is something none of us are ever going to find out, not for years anyway, if ever.
Elizabelle
@Kent: Potentially losing their livelihoods might wake some of those nurses up. It’s appalling there are so many anti-vaxx healthcare professionals. I have met one of these nurses (retired) myself. Told me I should check out RFK Jr’s site for the best information. Right.
LOL re the refusal language being supplied to physicians. Good on them. Enough.
I wonder if states/hospital systems should mandate continuing education for nurses, etc. to combat the anti-vaxx nonsense. How to spot fake news; here is the science behind vaccines and your ass is going to be tested on it.
burnspbesq
Wanna see Dell do this. It’s the biggest company headquartered in Texas. Let’s see Abbott and Paxton whine.
catclub
@Anonymous At Work:
So I was wondering how you determine that the covid vaccine is forbidden by your religion, but some other vaccines are acceptable.
I would be looking up the vaccination records of these families.
As to medical reasons: Immune compromised persons claim an exemption, but the CDC is now recommending that immune compromised persons get EXTRA doses to add to their covid immunity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@The Thin Black Duke:
as Cole said, I can’t believe Blue Cross et al haven’t done so already. That guy in LA who damn near died and still said he won’t get the vaccine? Let him pay out of pocket for three weeks in the hospital, then Bill First can come and take his F150, his fishing boat and his ski-doos (or whatever the hell they call those aquatic dirt bikes).
catclub
@The Moar You Know:
Thanks!
Elizabelle
@Ken: We need to administer vaccines to the migrants, especially those who will be turned away. It would do a lot of good. LOL that it’s also aimed at GQP false messaging — take that!
I hope this is a good way to use up the vaccines that would otherwise be wasted/expired.
Pennsylvanian
@dww44: We are invited, and vaccinated, but will not be attending.
One of the guests has MS, for crying out loud; another is a vulnerable and severely obese senior citizen; another a respiratory therapist. I can’t imagine what she has seen this year. All Trumpers, so no use trying to warn anybody or try strewin’ our learnin’ all over them.
I really fear for my nieces and nephew. My BIL smokes three packs a day, and if he gets the Delta variant, his chances seem rather grim. Sad and infuriating, even if I don’t like him all that much.
ET
@UncleEbeneezer: If Delta (the airline) doesn’t want the internet to come up with catchy phrases making a play on the company name and the current variant, it will mandate vaccines for employees.
catclub
@Elizabelle:
Something good from Duterte, but typical of his ‘kill em all’ style.
Elizabelle
I see this as a win-win for all of us. Protect our population, and fire the anti-vaxxer’s asses. No sympathy.
Kent
One thing I learned working in a Federal bureaucracy is that you never turn down an opportunity to fire dipshits who need to be fired. Some 20 years ago I had a useless co-worker at NOAA who was something of a alcoholic and asshole. He came to work one day after a bender ranting and raving about how he was going to quit. My boss being savvy had our secretary pull up boilerplate resignation forms and print them ASAP and they got his drunk ass to sign them before having security show him the door. Then they called in the custodians and maintenance people to clear out his office, box everything up, take the name off the door, wipe his computers, etc. etc. and turned his office into a temporary file storage room. When he walked in the next morning like nothing had happened he realized that he no longer existed within the organization and the bosses showed him his resignation paperwork signed by him.
Vaccine mandates are the *perfect* way to get rid of a lot of useless dead wood in many organizations. Were I still a supervisor I’d be taking good advantage of the chance. The fact that they self-identify is better yet. Better to be short-staffed for a spell than continue to deal with toxic assholes who make things worse.
smith
@Elizabelle: Currently, Mexico has an infection rate of 12.7/100K. In Texas it’s 40.2. The only humanitarian choice is to protect those poor refugees against the Texas plague rats.
Frank Wilhoit
@smith: …because they are not the masters of anything, but just scrapping for seats on the back of the tiger. I have always said that if it ever came to a straight fight between business and the church, business would lose, hard, and with a quickness. The proof is the effort that has been made, over the many years, to prevent that straight fight.
There are other missing pieces, but the final result will be that business will back down.
The Moar You Know
@zhena gogolia: They are now, but that demographic is not where the original anti-vax movement in the US came from.
It came, no nice way to say this, from the hippies. And then got a MASSIVE boost from a guy named Dr. Wakefield, British physician (they finally pulled his medical license a few years back). By the early 00s, there were parts of NorCal, especially in Marin and San Francisco, that had pediatric vaccination rates well under 40%. By that time, the mental disease had spread well out from the old longhairs and the fringe anti-government folks, and started making significant inroads into the more extreme churches.
The late 90s/early 00s was when we started seeing measles showing up at Disneyland. Very shortly afterwards, all over the US. We had been measles-free for almost 40 years at that point. Now we are “endemic”, just as I suspect we will end up with COVID.
The “god-botherers” are now the main vectors because of their virulent anti-government stances and their cult-like insistence that EVERYONE show up to church and take off their masks inside. But they weren’t the prime movers. That ship sailed back in the late 1980s, like so many other things that have gone to shit in out society.
Elizabelle
@Kent: Agree with you completely.
Good way to get the extreme rightwing out of the military and law enforcement, too. Enough of training them with firearms. Out of there.
geg6
@Baud:
Yes, I am looking forward to this because it will affect federal financial aid and research grants. And, since my employer is not requiring vaccinations yet, this will push them to do it. I can’t wait.
Kent
@catclub: There aren’t any legitimate religious exemptions.
Sure if you dive into the fundie fever swamp you can find all kinds of bullshit lies like how the vaccines are made from the flesh of aborted babies and that kind of thing. But they are lies couched in religious terminology.
Hell, if your religion forbids you from working as a flight attendant or surgical nurse so be it. Fine with me. Go live with the Amish.
Frank Wilhoit
@The Moar You Know: The fact that the hippies were right about Vietnam has blinded a lot of people to the fact that they were (and are) otherwise merely paranoid.
Sure Lurkalot
@zhena gogolia: My nephew did say that his non-vaxxed buddies are captured by right wing websites, conspiracy theories, Fox. But it does seem undeniable that many evangelicals are also aboard the anti-vax train. From there are baby parts in them to my faith will protect me. I have acquaintance with some of these people.
mrmoshpotato
@Wag:
Damn right. And it’s extra maddening that we’re awash in vaccines! Hell, we have three highly effective vaccines available here in the US! And one of those is a single dose!
And sometimes they get thrown out by the thousands because Dump-humping slapdicks won’t take them because FREEDUMB!
frosty
@Kent: I saw the same thing happen in a County government. A Division Chief provoked an argument with an asshole he wanted to get rid of and goaded him into hollering “I quit!” He had the paperwork through HR that afternoon, announced it on the PA, organized a going-away party and the guy was gone.
My boss had a different approach, but through hiring. I saw him go through the whole months long hiring process four times for one position. He wasn’t going to hire someone marginal that he could never be able to fire.
narya
@catclub: My mom is immunocompromised because of an organ transplant. The most recent advice she got was that she likely has lower immunity/antibodies, BUT they’re worried that a third shot might compromise her transplant, so she’s holding off for now. She has continued to mask, and even though she adores my nephews, she refuses to visit my bro’s house over the holidays because older nephew won’t vax.
RSA
@Kent: What a great story! Thanks for the chuckle.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: I’ve got lots of nurses and a few docs in my family, and all are pro-vax. But they also say there’s a fairly sizeable contingent of anti-COVID vax healthcare professionals, which is surprising and disappointing to me, but did NOT seem to surprise them. They anticipate those folks will either have to get with the program or get fired. Good. I’m fed up with the freeloaders.
Barbara
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: My daughter is working remotely, so not at risk, but one of her co-workers died within the last few weeks and no one has been able to determine whether her “rapid illness” was Covid. It’s driving the non-remote co-workers crazy because, even if vaccinated, many have children under the age of 12, and they were working side by side with the deceased worker, who was not vaccinated. Employers have to exert control over a situation where employees are basically asserting a right to kill co-workers and their unvaccinated family members. So good for CNN for standing up to the entitled sociopaths among their workforce.
schrodingers_cat
Biden has a good comms team
Looking good in a tan suit.
Old School
@schrodingers_cat: A tan suit?!?!? Will the Biden scandals never end?
Ken
That can happen, unless you hire people because they’re your golf pro, or once tweeted something nice about you, or look like your daughter.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: Yep. Enough with the freeloaders.
Steve in the ATL
@Anonymous At Work: can anyone think of a religious objection to wearing a mask? I haven’t heard one yet, but some of my unions can be quite creative and I’d like to get ahead of the curve.
schrodingers_cat
@Steve in the ATL: God wants to see your face so its a sin to cover it.
Brachiator
@Chief Oshkosh:
You still need to make it free and easy for the unvaccinated to get the shot. Otherwise you increase the risk of more snake oil and fake vaccines. Also vaccines meant for kids will be stolen and sold on illegal markets.
RSA
.
Sorry, wrong topic.
Steve in the ATL
@schrodingers_cat: so no objections from Muslim women then. At least they’ll be safe!
lowtechcyclist
@schrodingers_cat:
If God can see my innermost thoughts, a mask isn’t gonna keep him from seeing my face.
ETA: I know you’re quoting certain religious bozos, so this response is aimed at them, not you.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: An all-powerful being that exists outside of space and time cannot see in the infrared??
Good to know!!
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Steve in the ATL
@RSA: we should have snakes available for the Pentecostals who don’t want to get vaccinated
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott: semi-omniscience is still pretty impressive
Another Scott
@Pennsylvanian: Some neighbors a couple of blocks over held a graduation party a week or so ago. About 2 dozen SUVs parked on the street, lots of loud, joyful yelling coming from the backyard…
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
Guys I totally made up this objection on the fly to parody god-botherers. I have no idea if someone is actually using this as a reason
If there was a God, she would smite these annoying groupies, just because they make God look bad.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Some of the ingredients in a vaccine might be prohibited on religious principles. I’ve heard a fair number of Hindus are worried about the mRNA vaccines using cow-derived lipids in their lipid nanoparticles. There are also some Christian groups who are worried because the research behind the mRNA vaccines used embryonic stem cells. I think both these objections can be sidestepped by recommending the J&J vaccine.
Ksmiami
@Elizabelle: “Sick, broke and stupid is no way to go through life son…” – Dean Wormer
Hoodie
@schrodingers_cat: I think their god is Mr. Magoo.
Mike in NC
Went to the post office and supermarket today. People are re-masking on account of all the morons who refuse to get vaccinated (i.e., 55% of white evangelicals).
Ruckus
@catclub:
I’d bet it’s more than $.30/shot. To me, likely the bottle and cap is in the volume about $.50-.60 so that’s nearly $.10/shot, then there is the needle/syringe , which in this volume is likely $.15-.25 and the cost of refrigeration/transport. Add in waste and manufacture of the vaccine itself and I’d bet that you are looking at a minimum of $1-2 each.
Here is a paragraph from a Reuters article:
The U.S. government will pay Pfizer Inc nearly $2 billion for 100 million additional doses of its COVID-19 vaccine to bolster its supply as the country grapples with a nationwide spike in infections.
I’m only off by a factor of almost 20. That cost = $19.50/shot
Roger Moore
@Sure Lurkalot:
There’s a big overlap between God botherers and right wing conspiracy nuts. It’s not 100%, but it’s substantial. Even if your nephew’s buddies aren’t evangelicals, they are probably getting a bunch of their misinformation from them.
superdestroyer
@Patrianakos:
But many of their competitors are going to mandatory immunizations and those compeititors compete in the same space for nurses.
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: Who are these Hindus? Most are probably trolls and bots created by the ruling charlatans. BTW, this is the first time I have heard of this objection and I know many Hindus, online and off.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: Whether their intention was to become freeloaders I don’t know, but they are not nearly as harmless. They are vectors of the disease for those who cannot get vaccinated or for whom vaccination does not work. They are asserting a right to show up and engage in activities that put other people at risk. That is way, way beyond freeloading.
jeffreyw
@Steve in the ATL: Gene engineering a snake to produce vaccines in it’s venom sacs would be cool and someone should write a story using using that as a plot device.
JCJ
@Steve in the ATL:
There is a local loon here who has gone to the school board ranting about this. Her claim is something about being created in god’s image so therefore no mask to cover. I don’t know why no one asks in follow up about other things which cover other body areas or cosmetics.
Major Major Major Major
I love how the GOP, having already lost academia, pop culture, and journalism, has now lost big business and basically the entire field of economics. All they have left is whining—a powerful and destructive electoral force, to be sure, but still very funny.
scav
@schrodingers_cat: Ooo-ooooh! Be sure to ask them what other beauty tips will their God be mandating now! Hemlines up or down? Corduroy or Chenille. And which shade of blusher.
(Of course they’d have a god that told them to smile more, they’re pretty when they smile.)
Brantl
@Frank Wilhoit: I was one, and we were right about a hell of a lot more than Viet Nam; we saw the likelihood of Trump 50 years ago. “Only right about Viet Nam”, what a SOS.
Ruckus
@smith:
This requires repeating:
Martin
@The Thin Black Duke:
The work from home backlash is a lot harder for employers to rein in if some of your coworkers refuse to get vaccinated.
I don’t think it’ll matter much in the end, but they’re going to do whatever they can, and I think they’ll risk losing 5% of the workforce to get 95% back in offices.
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: Yeah, but kinda lame too.
Adam was able to hide from him in the Garden of Eden?? Maybe He should have created an optometrist and eyeglasses early on…
Cheers,
Scott.
lurker dean
@Mary G: yes! i wish i could do whatever the hell i want at work and ignore any rules i don’t like.
"Denver police union saying cops will not abide by the mayor's order for city workers to get vaccinated. 57% of officers are unvaccinated. Says union : "Officers should be trusted to make their own choices."https://twitter.com/jimbcbs4/status/1423435328782745600?s=20
Baud
PSA: If God tell you he wants to a body part other than your face, ask to see a photo ID.
dmsilev
@Ruckus: The mRNA vaccines are the pricier approach; I think J&J and AstraZeneca both run less than half as much per dose.
Not that it really makes a difference. An extra $10 is, what, about 5 milliseconds of ICU time?
Martin
@lurker dean: Show up to work every day with a gun, and for a spell you probably can.
Old School
@Steve in the ATL:
Here’s one from last August:
Martin
@dmsilev: It’s more than that – it’s a factor of 10. Like $20 for mRNA and $2 for J&J.
But yeah, rounding errors relative to economic harm.
Fake Irishman
@Roger Moore:
happens with religious fatwahs issued from Muslim clerics too sometimes. In Indonesia a few years back a council of clerics said that a measles vaccine was forbidden because one of its stabilizing ingredients was derived from pigs. Vaccination rates took a hit and outbreaks ensued.
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
My aunt asked me about this issue for a Hindu friend. I looked into it a bit, and I believe the claim about the lipids in the nanoparticles being derived from cows is correct. I don’t know how many Hindus that is going to bother, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Hindus who are looking for an excuse not to be vaccinated would seize on it, even if it otherwise wouldn’t trigger their religious scruples.
ETA: Shorter: it’s likely an excuse, not a reason.
Another Scott
@Hoodie: rofl.
GMTA. :-)
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
Religious exemption nonsense from the Louisiana attorney general.
Also, phony medical exemptions
So much bullshit.
Baud
@lurker dean:
So many problems are solving themselves.
Betty Cracker
@Martin: From what I’m seeing, the drive to get office workers back in offices is very strong in some industries (financial, for one) but not so strong in others (tech, for example). Lots of CEOs are looking at their corporate real estate portfolios and thinking about other uses for that money, and there’s a ton of talk about hybrid arrangements. It’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Roger Moore
@JCJ:
I don’t know my Bible back to front, but I’m sure an industrious reader could find something there about not covering your face. And there’s definitely stuff about covering other parts of your body!
Robert Sneddon
@jeffreyw:
“Of Mist, and Grass, and Sand” by Vonda McIntyre. Cracking good story, very skiffy.
Gvg
@JPEG: a correctable pre existing condition. So if it takes 5 or 6 weeks to be fully vaxed you can give them 7, then it’s a choice. It’s nothing like smokers, who are addicted.
i don’t think it really qualifies as a pre existing condition.
dnfree
@Frank Wilhoit: speak for yourself about hippies and paranoia. The Venn diagram of “young people who opposed the Vietnam war in the 1960s and 1970s” and “young people who took drugs and lived in communes” would certainly show an overlap, but neither group contains the other. Paranoid young people might be a third circle somewhat overlapping each of the others.
Ruviana
@schrodingers_cat: There really was a guy in some state office (I think) somewhere who said his face was “made in God’s image” so it would be insulting to cover it up. No link cuz I’m on my phone
ETA it might be the guy Brachiator wrote about that I’m thinking of.
WhatsMyNym
@schrodingers_cat:
No one looks good in a tan suit.
scav
@lurker dean: Still more concrete evidence that cops feel personally licensed to kill whoever they want, god-be-danmed what the rules, laws or orders are. Sun rises in east. Gravity still functional.
Baud
Criminals should have a right not to get arrested by plague cops.
sab
@Major Major Major Major: They still have the biker crowd (motorcycles, not bicycles.)
Baud
@Brachiator:
The Louisianaban.
Eljai
@Steve in the ATL: As a lawyer (I mean you’re a lawyer — IANAL, but I do have a paralegal certificate from an accredited university) I’m sure you already know that the ADA HIPAA, 4th and 5th Amendments and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 can not be used to fight mask mandates. Just thought I’d give you a heads up.
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
Adam tried to hide from God in the Garden of Eden, but it’s not clear from the story that he was successful.
Chief Oshkosh
@Kent:
Nursing (and other allied healthcare) is one of the few highly-paid jobs in many rural areas. It’s why so many MAGAts marry them. They sure as shit can’t hold down a job with bennies.
Suzanne
@superdestroyer: Due to weird legacy legal issues, a lot of America’s for-profit healthcare systems are headquartered and incorporated in Tennessee. I wonder if we will start to see different behavior between the nonprofits and the for-profits.
cwmoss
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: bring back exclusions for preexisting conditions and medical history! (Is that what you’re arguing for?)
Spanky
@schrodingers_cat:
Maybe we’re seeing that in real time.
scav
And this whole God as the fussy fashion police has lead to the image of St Peter as the admittance bouncer at a trendy nightclub. Oh, I wish I could paint: I don’t know if I’d go for a Sistine Chapel knockoff first or debut with black velvet.
Martin
@Steve in the ATL: So, you’re reading it too closely.
It falls in the broader category of role of god vs state. Think instead of the Jehovas Witnesses winning a court battle that compels them to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
The case hinged on the state’s interest vs the personal interest, and the court ruled that the state had an insufficient interest in mandating the pledge.
The problem here is that if you think of masks as protecting you, then you probably have a winning case, but if the state is saying ‘no, the mask is to protect others’ then you don’t. And of course, the religious folks are only thinking of themselves, so yeah, all of the religious exemptions are going to fail quite badly.
Betty
@catclub: Some very anti-abortion folks claim fetal tissue was used in developing some of the vaccines and therefore violates their religion.
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: Some upper caste Hindus in the diaspora can be quite wingnutty.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: In Virginia there is a law on the books making it a felony to cover one’s face. But note all the caveats, etc.
I have no doubt that any religious or other prohibition has similar exceptions.
Cheers,
Scott.
sab
@JCJ: Speaking of school board nonsense, I unfortunately googled Andrew Sullivan this morning and discovered his “explanation” of CRT. Talk about an astonishing level of projection (I accuse you of doing this because this is what I am actually doing right now). I am embarrassed to think I ever thought he was intelligent although in disagreement with me. He is just a cynical slime ball.
ETA: correction. Cynical, virulently racist slime ball.
Baud
Whatever happened to all those militant atheists that were popular in the media when Muslims were the bad guys?
schrodingers_cat
@sab: He went from pro-immigration to anti-immigration the moment he got his fucking Green Card.
Central Planning
@Roger Moore: I’m not religious, but I like to think that if I could get some God particles injected into me, I would take it.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Haha. The calls to mind the anti-hoodie craze from a few years ago.
Ken
@Robert Sneddon: Thank you! I was trying to remember the name for jeffreyw.
sab
@schrodingers_cat: The moment. He didn’t pause long enough to take another breath.
Baud
@Central Planning:
I’d offer you Baud particles but I fear it would be taken the wrong way.
Roger Moore
@Fake Irishman:
I think the Jewish attitude toward these things is a bit more reasonable. It’s a well accepted principle that protecting life and health takes priority over obeying dietary laws. If it’s a choice between eating forbidden food and starving, you’re supposed to eat the forbidden food. The same thing with vaccines that contain things that would otherwise be forbidden; protecting your health is the higher principle.
beth
We’ve got a local right winger on our neighborhood Facebook page – this week she’s offering forms to give to school for K-12 aged kids to opt out of mask mandates (which we don’t have) and also opt of “SexEd, 1619, CRT and SEL per the Hatch Amendment” (whatever that is). I feel sorry for the poor school office workers and teachers who are going to have to deal with all this nonsense for things that aren’t even being done in the schools. Unfortunately she’s getting a lot of takers for the forms.
dr. luba
@Betty Cracker: I’m a doc myself. All the docs I know have been vaccinated. The nurses I work with are another story. Many have not been: in fact many of them, despite hospital regulations, don’t wear their masks in common areas at the hospital. They’re smarter than Dr. Fauci because they’ve done their online research.
I’ve just gotten COVID from (idiot unvaxxed) neighbors; they had a graduation party, outdoors, and I popped by for a few minutes. We talked a bit. Apparently that is all it took. Delta is hella contagious.
Luckily for the antivax/antimask nurses at work, I am a strict masker and they are probably safe. It’s up to the hospital whether they need testing and/or quarantine.
I’ve got fairly mild symptoms, like a bad cold. Slept much of the day yesterday, got the PCR results this morning (rapid test was negative), and have been on the phone all morning trying to figure out who of my contacts is at risk and what they should do. (Only two with actual potential infection from me, but both low risk.). Being a relative COVID hermit means I didn’t expose many others.
The worst thing is that my neighbors, who’ve infected at least 10 people so far, never warned me; they knew Monday. Oops! I found out from a mutual friend….got tested due to symptoms, not due to knowledge of exposure.
So I’m in quarantine/isolation until the 14th. I’ve missed meeting my nephew’s wife, and am missing a family getaway this weekend. I guess I’ll garden…..
Ken
@Another Scott: Just the “with the intent to conceal his identity” clause would exempt wearing a mask for medical reasons, I would think. And it looks to this non-lawyer as if the entire rest of the law depends on that clause.
sab
@Ruviana: I can’t remember his name, but I am pretty sure he was in the Ohio state legislature.
Baud
@beth:
Child: “Dear teacher, I hereby decline to take
SexEd, SEL, 1619, CRT and SEL per the Hatch Amendmentalgebra.”Central Planning
@Baud: So many possible jokes…
ETA: I tell my kids I am God because I have created life.
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: Reply god can see into your soul, he doesn’t need to see your face, which he made anyway.
Kay
@Brachiator:
They love to feel persecuted. There is no issue or policy, big or small, that they will accept without claims someone is persecuting them.
I think they prefer Democratic governance. More opportunities to claim persecution. It’s like a weird kind of exlcusivity, right? “We’re special“.
It’ll be sad when they’re on a ventilator with all the heathens.
Baud
Cermet
@Anonymous At Work: Military enlist can’t just quite, regardless of the reason; and officer can always resign their commission but then are enlisted (usually NCO rank) and its up to the command what to do with them.
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
Section iv (b) appears to have been written with a situation like the current one directly in mind.
Baud
@Kay:
Why can’t we feed them to the lions? Win-win.
Central Planning
@Gvg: Or maybe “So if I want to do some sinning, I should just wear a mask?”
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: I had already heard it. It actually is being used, although I don’t think widely. I think it is certain preachers.
Ruckus
@frosty:
I liked owning a much smaller business for the reason that, if necessary, firing was a one person decision and that person was me.
I believe that in 20+ yrs I fired only 3 people. One who would not take any direction and whatever/however I wanted him to accomplish a task, he would do it a different and damaging way, one who interviewed well and had zero idea how to do the job, and one who applied for a supervisor role and couldn’t find the on/off switch for the most popular machine in our line of work – it said on/off on the switch. All of this was back at a time when no one including me would give a bad review in CA because you could be sued, and often were, by an ex employee. So it ended up no one gave any kind of review, you had to ask, “Would you hire this person back to work for you?” and the tone of the No was your only clue. No? NO. NO!
Another Scott
@Ken: Exactly. One has to take the text in its entirety.
I’m reminded of the recent freakout about Israeli results that the mRNA vaccines were “only 31% effective against Delta!!11”. It was a lie because they were taking the words out of context. (It was 31% effective against the virus for people who were not 2-weeks past fully vaccinated. It was 85+% effective for those were were 2-weeks past fully vaccinated. As expected.)
Twitter and FB are killing a lot of people. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@Chat Noir: As was I. I would have figured insurance companies would be offering their clients breaks on their pricing for enforcing vaccination policies. Y’know, like they do for fucking DRUG TESTING.
Ghost of Joe Liebling*s Dog
@jeffreyw:
Yep. Not sure whether you’re in-joking or didn’t know, but if it’s the latter, you might like the book. I remember it as being well-told, though I haven’t read it in a long, long time and could be remembering more than actually was there.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: Yup.
See my #158.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cermet
@Brachiator: I’m still wondering what religion say’s vaccines aren’t allowed? Its not Protestant (all major sect’s that I’m aware), nor Catholic, nor Islamic, or Hindu, or Mormon or even Jehovah Witnesses. So, what religion demands an exception – I’d really like to know – anyone?
Feathers
Yeah, corporate America is sick of this bullshit. Will it be enough for them to cut off the Republicans? Maybe.
Right now, isn’t the government paying for COVID treatment? Could we say that after X date, you need to be vaccinated or have one of a list of reasons not to be vaccinated to have this continue to be the fact? I do get a sense that the Biden administration is really not trying to kick the hornet’s nest, but it may be time. Also, announcing that we won’t be holding onto our extra vaccines into 2022 would be a smart move. Maybe not smart, but hugely popular.
This is from 2016 and I think it sums up the bougie anti-vaxxers: https://aeon.co/essays/anti-vaccination-might-be-rational-but-is-it-reasonable Basic premise, anti-vaxxers know the vaccines are safe, they just refuse to accept any risk to their child is acceptable. Works well with this Atlantic Monthly article on why customers are going crazy across America: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/pandemic-american-shoppers-nightmare/619650/ This one is very interesting. Points out how the notion of sucking up to customers began in the early 20th century as a way of drawing shoppers in and helped these new customers to see themselves as part of the middle class. Essentially, middle class status in America defined by having “service workers” instead of the servants of the upper class. The pandemic has disrupted this and people are flipping out because of status threat.
The US really does need to stop treating everyone so horribly.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
Of course they love to feel persecuted. It’s right there in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:10-12):
Jesus said it’s good to be persecuted for being a Christian, so they want to feel persecuted in order to be properly righteous. If they aren’t being properly persecuted, they’ll make up imaginary persecution.
Kay
@Baud:
I just wait for it. Whatever it is- they’ll be some insanely convoluted reason why it is offensive.
All of Alito’s speeches are “why are these heathens attacking me?”
Oh, please. Like anyone even cares about you. We were trying to put a speed limit in. Apologies if it offends you.
RSA
@dr. luba: I don’t know how you and your colleagues manage to keep doing what you do, but thanks.
Anoniminous
@Another Scott:
Which is why one should never, never, never trust the Infotainment Mediums when it comes to STEM. They are in the advertising business, with the firm dedication to accuracy that implies.
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: That’s what my grandmother who was pretty religious BTW did. For example she would relax self imposed dietary restrictions when she traveled.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Scott: Guess his eyes still have a “hot mirror”.
Fake Irishman
@Roger Moore:
Yeah, most schools of Jewish thought seem pretty reasonable on this sort of stuff. I think that’s true in Islam too, most clerics and their affiliated organization are quite pragmatic on these sorts of things. In this particular case it was one particular group that wasn’t representative, but enough to do some damage.
Cermet
@Kent: We have a rather difficult issue in our Fed branch – two literal world class genius’s that do incredible work refuse to be vaxxed because it is giving in to big gov (you don’t want to know what they do and consider ok.) I am far more concerned they’ll get sick and die because they are unreplaceable and have no equal in their two fields. I consider it tragic and just hope they don’t get sick. Both are, of course, over 65 with health issues. One is the nicest person you’d ever meet.
Major Major Major Major
@sab:
90% overlap with whiny petit bourgeoisie small business owner tax revolt types.
Kay
Do people really hate summer suits? I like them. People are, as usual, wrong.
dman
@Eljai:
Just wondering why anyone who believes in workers rights would
want to help a company lawyer in his fight against unions.
Dont get me wrong, I am full mask up and fully vaccinated, but I would never give the other side (company/union) any ammo
* sorry for odd format on phone
Cermet
@Roger Moore: So far, that’s what they all do now.
Spanky
@Elizabelle: @Betty Cracker:
“Moocher” rolls off the tongue more easily than “freeloader”. Added bonus is that it’s throwing their own codeword back at them.
dr. luba
@RSA: I’m an obstetrician, so my risk is relatively low through work.
I do not know how my medicine/ER /ICU colleagues keep going. My niece is a nurse, worked the COVID units (all the floor were COVID units at one point) at NW in Chicago. She had to comfort patients dying alone (pre-vaccine period). She seems to be doing well, but she’s young and healthy. And vaccinated, of course.
Cermet
@Roger Moore: I recall that the head (top there of) and buttocks must be covered. Outside of the Eden story, not aware of genital’s being explicitly mentioned.
StringOnAStick
@Roger Moore: All those animal sources of vaccine components are making some vegans decide not to get vaccinated. I have yet to meet a vegan who isn’t evangelical about their one true path, but I am curious if this will get more traction in that subculture.
chopper
now we just need to make sure that when these companies shitcan employees for not getting the shot, it’s considered misconduct so they can’t get unemployment. fuck them.
Miss Bianca
@JCJ: “So you’re going to stop wearing pants because God wants to see your fine white ass? Is that it?”
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
Wouldn’t god know what you look like, as he created you and sees all?
Ken
Except for the foreskin. That’s mentioned frequently enough to look unhealthily obsessive.
scav
@Spanky: Need to work in “lifestyle choice” if at all possible on similar grounds.
Betty Cracker
@dr. luba: Stupid asshole neighbors! Hope you recover fully and quickly.
Ruckus
@dmsilev:
It’s cheap at ten times the price….
Brachiator
This may have been noted already, but it is still appalling to learn how easy it is to spread disinformation. From an NPR program on the Disinformation Dozen.
But of course you also need a bunch of chumps who want to believe.
mrmoshpotato
@dr. luba: I second BC’s ‘stupid asshole neighbors’. Sorry you’re missing getting away for the weekend. Hoping for a quick and full recovery.
sab
OT : My dad was a pathologist. My husband was just watching a Quincy rerun when he came out of the morgue wearing yellow playtex dishwashing gloves instead of surgical gloves. Thank God his patients were already dead. How could he use a scalpel? Costuming failure. I wonder what his mask would have looked like.
John Revolta
Mark Twain called the insurance underwriters “the power behind the throne that is greater than the throne itself”. It was they who mandated that all Mississippi riverboat pilots must belong to the Pilots’ Association, after they noticed that boats steered by those pilots had few or no accidents or mishaps.
Ruckus
@dnfree:
I was strongly against the Vietnam war and I enlisted in the navy. I know others who emigrated to Canada, I know some who burned their draft cards and I know of one who ate ground glass to flunk his draft physical. Said physical was of course a sham, at mine, in Los Angeles, the blood and urine samples were not identified in any way. So I knew when they put them in the racks that they were just going to be thrown away. You showed up, you were between so tall to so tall, weighed less than 300 lbs and could stand up for 2 hrs, and didn’t piss blood, you were draft material – IA.
sab
@dr. luba: My niece worked pediatric ICU so she burned out before Covid. She teaches nursing now. Less pay, less pain.
Chief Oshkosh
@Kay:
Well then, let’s got on with the program! I wouldn’t want them to feel persecuted without actually being persecuted. Let’s persecute them. Hard.
hw3
Is stupidity a covered pre-existing condition under ACA?
Uncle Cosmo
@Gin & Tonic: Hmm. Apparently I need to revise one of my favorite sayings:
:^D
( NB I worked for economists as a statistical programmer/analyst for almost 5 years.)
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
With all that big business and high paying jobs that exist in those relatively low population rural areas, of course they can……
mrmoshpotato
Via Popehat
Gotta laugh, because otherwise you’d end up in the ER – from repeatedly slamming your head against the wall.
Brachiator
@Cermet:
From a recent news story.
The Pale Scot
@Pennsylvanian:
When I was a yout there were people my friends and I would speculate about that it couldn’t hurt to buy one of those no check up life insurance policies for. They were the blow and JD crowd we were sure wouldn’t make it to 40.
They didn’t, not even close. Neither did we. Was figured it would be taunting the Mórrígan(s), they’re better left to themselves.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
FB is up to no good? Say it isn’t so, it would break my heart that I closed my account many years ago and have never gone back even to look.
Uncle Cosmo
@Frank Wilhoit: This is the second time you’ve tried peddling that superficial bullshit.
The hippies weren’t “paranoid.” They were (and are, in their 70s and beyond) self-absorbed navel-gazers. They give not a frying flock** about anything except what confirms their status as the Crowns of Creation and/or makes them feel good. With the added frisson of watching their contemporaries drop dead around them with mounting terror of what comes next for them (especially terrified that “what comes next” might be the simple, if in more prominent cases gradual, erasure of their ever having existed).
Many of us geezers have learned better. Many have not.
** As Frank (not Sonny) Perdue would’ve put it.
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
Yeah, the people who want to misinterpret studies will misinterpret them. I remember one where they tracked healthcare workers at UC hospitals to look at vaccine effectiveness. Someone looked at the data and said that 1% of the people got sick after being vaccinated. I looked at the study, and that’s not what it said at all. 1% of the people in the study got COVID after receiving their first shot. A big chunk got sick in the 2 weeks after their first shot, some more in the time remaining before their second shot, a few in the 2 weeks after their second shot, and a tiny fraction after being fully vaccinated. The numbers really meant the vaccine was very effective, but they had been twisted to serve an anti-vax agenda.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Context is important. Early Christians were being persecuted. And most new upstart religions need to give their followers a reason to carry on when opposition is fierce.
Ruckus
@Cermet:
I imagine it’s the ones that sell tickets at the door and have leaders with with their own private jets and whose baskets are overflowing.
Ella in New Mexico
The problem is thanks to ACA they can’t deny care for pre-existing conditions, and in the end that’s a good thing. But as far as insurance companies go, don’t worry your pretty little heads they aren’t making up the financial difference.
Here in the world of primary care, I’m finding they’ve been trying to claw back the money they have and continue to spend on high cost hospitalizations and post-COVID care by denying/Prior-Authorizing everything they can with my patients, which is NOT fair. They can’t deny coverage for prior illness, but they can make you and your healthcare providers lives miserable by forcing you to jump through hoop after hoop that neither of you has time or patience for, mostly in hopes you’ll just give up.
I’ve had patients denied medications they’ve taken for years for diabetes, COPD, heart disease, depression, ADHD, hypertension, etc., told they must go back and fail 3-5 older, less effective medications before they’ll refill their current medication. They’re nickel and diming them on imaging where the best initial exam for the diagnosis would be a CT or MRI and they’re denying those forcing people to get plain x-rays or ultrasounds first, delaying care. They’re playing “coding games” where they dump the cost of an office visit that should have been an annual by nitpicking the different ways you bill different diseases. They’re dictating to prescribing providers what pain and other medications they can and cannot prescribe without us consulting with a specialty provider such as Pain Management or Psychiatry, when to be honest front line Primary Care Providers jobs ARE to pick up the slack for the lack of those specialty providers and we get excellent preparation on how to appropriately care for those patients.
If we can ever stop arguing about infrastructure and voting rights, we need to fix all the secret back-door loopholes of ACA Republicans eroded over the past few years.
Better yet, time to shit-can insurance companies completely.
Eljai
@dman: In this case, the question was about enforcing mask mandates. Mask mandates protect both union and non-union employees and help to create a safer workspace. If Steve in the ATL asked for advice about union busting, then no, I would not help him.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
These people don’t do context, their religion is basically a random collection of quotes from the Bible. Context would be dangerous interpretation in their eyes.
Robert Sneddon
@sab:
The wife of a married couple I used to rent a room from was a nurse in a pediatric oncology ward at the local hospital. We knew they had lost a “season ticket holder” when she came home and hit the stash of 90% cocoa butter chocolate bars they kept in the hall cupboard.
Eventually she was promoted to ward sister but not long after that happened they made the decision to up sticks and move to Australia, in part because she couldn’t bring herself to leave the PO ward and work elsewhere in the hospital whereas if she put 12,000 miles between the ward and her she could convince herself to stop.
Ruckus
@hw3:
No, because you’d have to prove the stupidity and that leads to more stupidity and that becomes a vicious circle jerk of stupidity and no one wants that…..
Ruckus
@mrmoshpotato:
I laugh at that because I think it’s funny watching people prove their stupidity over and over and over and….. then demanding that you give them credit for proving what everybody already knows.
Just Chuck
@StringOnAStick:
I know plenty. Hung out with rooms full of non-preachy vegans in fact. Tho with a dozen or more around, there was always one of those. There’s my anecdata.
Another Scott
@dr. luba: I’m so sorry to read this. :-(
Here’s hoping that your symptoms don’t get worse and that you’re 100% very soon.
Thanks for all you do, here in the US and for those kids in Ukraine. I hope you’ll let us know when the summer camps start up again.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Ella in New Mexico:
It seems that nickel and diming everyone involved does not improve the product, and possibly costs more in the long run than it helps the current quarter. But the money people must be the smartest because Money!
The Pale Scot
@Steve in the ATL:
There’s a snake named Adolph I know does excellent work
http://www.californiaherps.com/films/snakefilms/WereNoAngels.html
burnspbesq
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t doubt that, but given how much money commercial real estate contributes to state judicial election campaigns, I’d be surprised to see courts giving them an easy out. And declaring bankruptcy if you’re not insolvent is not looked on kindly by DOJ. So they may be stuck in the short term.
JaneE
@schrodingers_cat: Some 50 years ago I met a Hindu who would be one of those guys. We were at a dinner party hosted by a Hindu woman, with an all vegetarian menu which she personally prepared. She was much annoyed when this guy went through her kitchen trash so he could read the ingredient lists on everything she used that came in a package. He had been a normal vegetarian, but had taken some religious vow and was going to be extremely vegan for a year. He was extreme, but in his case it was only temporary.
Roger Moore
@Cermet:
“Explicitly” is doing a lot of work, there. The use a lot of euphemisms for genitals.
sab
@Just Chuck: I used to be a non-preachy vegan. Most people I knew didn’t know I was. i finally quit when Obamacare gave me health insurance that couldn’t be cancelled, and I found out that white lips on adults aren’t normal, and B12 not iron is why I had been flunking my red cross blood donor tests all those years.
mrmoshpotato
@Ruckus: Fair enough.
Roger Moore
@StringOnAStick:
It should be possible to get the lipids for mRNA vaccines from vegetable sources, and it would probably be good to do it just to remove one more excuse not to get vaccinated. If anything the mRNA vaccines are better for vegans in general because they’re synthetic and can be made without any kind of animal stuff. Almost all other vaccines have to be grown in some kind of animal derived tissue.
JeanneT
@jeffreyw:
Dreamsnake by Vonda McIntyre (published in 1978) had a post-apocalyptic world where snakes were used to produce theraputic treatments for infection, or to provide painfree euthanasia. Not the same as creating vaccines, but close.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore:
PlantBasedNews.org:
True? Wouldn’t surprise me, but I dunno. Critics might be incorrectly parsing something they read; they might be making crap up. Dunno.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
OGLiberal
@Betty Cracker: I’m in financial services and have been working from home for the better part of the last 5-years but while my company isn’t in “everybody back now!” mode they are really pushing back in the office. Which doesn’t make a lot of sense because we didn’t really miss a beat during the rapid transit, have all the necessary tech/infrastructure and actually did and continue to do quite well. (by contrast, in 2008-2009 we did terrible when everybody was in the office) I think part of it is that they are stuck in relatively long-term leases with high rents, are heavily invested in industries that take a hit when people work from home and senior managers spend their entire days in meetings – which they like to do in person – and can’t conceive of people being able to successfully do their jobs remotely, even though a year plus of evidence that they can is right there in front of them.
Yes, I’m lucky to have a job that I can perform 100% remotely. I will say that I am much more productive working from home but hard to convince senior folks of that.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Another Scott: In my corner of the universe (SE Ontario, Canada) we’re at 74% fully vaccinated with 82% with at least one dose. Bars are open, and I’m playing shows again (at last; that’s the longest I’ve gone without performing since 2008 when I got back into playing in bands); all shows must be out of doors, though; indoor shows are still verboten.
People are still masking up when they go inside here, and it’s mandated inside places of public accommodation, so for example we’re not masking in my office where literally everyone here is fully vaccinated, but we have to in the common areas of the office building. Most of Canada’s driving pretty hard to get us to that magic 90% vaccination rate so we can really move to opening things up again.
MomSense
Spreadnecks – perfect!
Suzanne
I just — like five minutes ago — found out that one of my high school classmates died of Covid last night. We’re 41. He leaves two elementary school-age kids behind.
Roger Moore
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It’s a collection of quotes from the Bible, but it’s absolutely not random. They’re carefully curated to justify their preexisting beliefs.
The Pale Scot
@Feathers:
What is so wrong about this
I’ve read articles about the swells berating their servants in front of guests. WFT could be more stupid? You’re going to denigrate people who have keys to your place? Those people and their family get Xmas presents etc period. All your shit they have to put up with.
If I was wealthy enough to have “staff”. The idea kinda freaks me out. The dogs wake me up enough with their shuffling around
The Pale Scot
@Cermet:
Irreplaceable economists? That’s an oxymoron
prostratedragon
@sab: Even though it’s way late if I weren’t on this phone I’d offer some proposals.
Gravenstone
@sab: What I most loved about Quincy was how they could get instrumental test results in literal seconds after injection. A real world lab would love if that were possible, instead of test sequences (blank 2X, sample 2X, markers, blank 2X) that take 6-8 hours to complete.
dr. luba
@Another Scott: Thanks! I’m actually a bit better today than yesterday. Still with a cough and a bit tired.
I’m looking forward to being able to travel again someday, and to hold camps safely again. My friends and relatives over in Ukraine are slowly getting vaccinated; did lose my goddaughter’s grandfather to COVID last winter.
Another Scott
@polyorchnid octopunch:
Ontario seems to be doing very well (< 1/100,000 cases and falling since early August).
My part of the world, Fairfax County, VA is going the wrong way with R > 1.3 and 8.8/100,000 infection numbers (64.5% at least one dose vaccinated). We’re not seeing any sign of a slowdown yet.
:-(
My step-mom’s county in Mississippi is on fire with 52.4/100,000 infections and barely 44% vaccinated….
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
ellenr
@Frank Wilhoit: bullshit
dopey-o
My good friend, Pope Francis, has stated that the Catholic Church has no objections to the J&J vaccine, which 50 years ago was fetal cells. He reasons that given such a long time frame, J&J recipients are not participating in the “evil of abortion.”
Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have no fetal-derived components. People who object to them should just ESAD.
sab
@Gravenstone: My dad used to tell me stories about surgeons with open patients shrieking at him for results. He actually admired surgeons a lot.
sab
@sab: Surgeons shrieking, not the patients.
dnfree
@Roger Moore: in Robert Alter’s translation of the Old Testament, he mentions that all those oaths sworn by putting a hand on someone’s thigh…might not really be the thigh.
dnfree
@Uncle Cosmo: so you think your version of hippies is more accurate than Frank Wilhoit’s? I’d say you’re just overgeneralizing in a different direction.
Another Scott
@sab: I was gonna say…
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
@Martin:
I worked for a state agency in WV, and a few years into that gig we (the IT dept) had a meeting with the HR people. They wanted to get everyone to sign a form that we acknowledged that we couldn’t have firearms at work. We were the first group they met with, probably thinking that the nerds would be easy.
NOT so. No one signed their forms.
Inspectors all carried locked briefcases with them in their Jeeps. We were on the top floor, and the inspectors were on the first floor, many of them retired Marines with years of combat esperience. Quiet guys, serious eyes.
When you get death threats routinely on the job, you become inclined to be prepared to defend yourself.
On the other hand, regarding Covid vaccinations. I’m all OK with religious exemptions. You just have to work at your church, not from any facility not owned by your church. God will provide, you work for HIM now. Check with your pastor to see how much your church is willing to pay your family!
And your kids, just Nope. They get vaccinated at school on their first day, line up in the cafeteria and the Board of Edcucation or Dept of Health nurses will shoot up all of them, Measles. Mumps, Covid, Flu, all of them.
Fuck that neglect syndrome, all the kids need and MUST HAVE ALL the vaccines. Otherwise is neglect and abandonment! After the government takes the kids, arrest the parents for neglect, and bill them for the cost of Foster care administration.
I’m done with these holy roller retards ~!~ Thanks goodness we’re retired and I can wear a respirator to town as needed!
tokyokie
@burnspbesq: I think that honor goes to ExxonMobil.
J R in WV
@Roger Moore:
Matthew 5:11
Now, see, we’re not saying all manner of evil against these people “falsely” at all. They are refusing a safe common medical treatment to save their lives and the lives of the co-workers and neighbors.
Being suicidal is not a good thing in the Good Book! That falsely word does some heavy lifting, and most all of these “Christians” are deliberately overlooking that word to take advantage of the rest of the verses.
Screw them!
It’s a sin to misconstrue the scriptures to take advantage of them… if you believe in the scriptures, which I don’t particularly. Lots of old style wisdom in there, also lots of mythology held by the goat herds.
sab
@J R in WV: I have a niece whose husband does electrical repair. That means he is one of those guys who goes out into the boondocks to restore power whenever a big storm blows out a large part of the eastern USA electrical grid. He always goes armed. They worry about guys wanting to steal their wallets, their tools and their trucks. In areas so remote no one would miss them for days.
ETA I dom’t know about him, but she is quite the Lefty.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Fair Economist: an antivaxxxer employee at cnn is just a human bomb from cesar sayoc, jr’s, laboratory
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Kent: patriots pride — ride n’ die
joey gibson is the antichrist
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Brantl: altamont music n arts festival did nothing wrong
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Another Scott: we might at least rid the world of moby
J R in WV
@sab:
I have a carry permit, and used to carry pretty often. I let go of that a couple of years ago, but maintain the permit. There are many places all over this country where no one would know what happened for months or years if you disappeared.
So I’m not a bit surprised that someone working in very rural areas they aren’t familiar with go armed. I would. I got my permit after Wife got death threats from her reporting on a dirty cop.
When I got my carry permit, a friend and neighbor noticed that my permit was in the legal ad in the weekly newspaper in the county seat. He gave me a look and, not exactly a wink, but close, and said something about noticing my new permit. That was close on to 20 years ago now.
It also makes it easier to travel with target pistols to shoot with friends in other places. Lots of other states recognize permits from other states, so having a case with pistols in the car isn’t an issue. You do have to be careful about the local regulations, though.
J R in WV
@MontyTheClipArtMongoose:
Thank WaterGirl and Cleek for the PIe Filter!
Glidwrith
@jeffreyw: way, way late to the thread, but such a novel exists: Dreamsnake by Vonda McIntyre
Frank Wilhoit
@Uncle Cosmo: This is far too late, but I am truly sorry I touched a nerve. That is not (as it often is in other fora) the game.
Paranoia, narcissism, and credulity are all manifestations of the same psychological disorder. “Paranoia” is my preferred shorthand for the whole ball of sh1t — except sometimes it is credulity. Perhaps narcissism is yours. It comes to the same thing.
Concision != superficiality. Today everything is tl;dr.
The Lodger
@dnfree: It’s called testimony for a reason.