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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Too Shy on Masking

Too Shy on Masking

by $8 blue check mistermix|  August 9, 202112:05 pm| 154 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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There’s an ugly but thorough article on Delta in the Washington Post. Key points are that Delta’s “R-naught” is estimated by the CDC to be 5, compared to the estimated 2.5 of the original virus that emerged in Wuhan. This means that each case could infect 5 other unprotected people. Also important: clinicians are anecdotally reporting that people with Delta get sicker, quicker. These anecdotes need to be tempered with other anecdotes like those posted in Anne Laurie’s morning roundup, where one nurse reported that his patients tend to wait until they’re quite sick before coming to the hospital. Finally, there’s a report from Mesa County, CO, deep in Lauren Boebert’s district, where their 36% vaccination rate led to 900 Delta cases in a county with a population of 154,000, as well as the first pediatric death from COVID. (In contrast, if you peg the start of Delta in my home county around mid-July, we’re 5 times bigger than Mesa County and have barely hit 900 Delta cases, though God knows some of us are trying.)

What’s missing from the Post story is the context I added above — the size of Mesa County, how their COVID rate stacks up against areas with better vaccination rates, etc. Just machine-gunning context-free numbers doesn’t help anyone, especially this far into the COVID outbreak. The article does mention that Delta seems to burn out pretty quickly as it runs through the vulnerable population in an area, which may give school-aged kids some hope as they are rounded up and sent to school.

Still, what’s really bothering me about our current response is soft-pedaling masking, as well as the reluctance to move on from cloth masks. At the local grocery stores in the last couple of days, I’m seeing ~75% masking. This is pure voluntary compliance, which means that the masked are almost certainly vaccinated and symptom-free. In other words, lack of a mask is a pretty reliable asshole indicator. When masks were mandated, compliance was 98%+.

I know I’ve posted a couple of times on high quality masks — almost as much as I’ve posted on Andrew Cuomo — but it’s ridiculous that high quality masks (N-95, KN-95 and KF-94) are not being distributed and recommended instead of surgical or cloth masks. Scott Gottlieb, Trump’s former FDA director, recently recommended KN-95 masks or equivalent for adults (and I saw on Twitter somewhere, children). Yeah, he was Trump’s asshole, but even a stopped asshole is right once in a while.

We need mask mandates, now, and widespread distribution of higher-quality masks to school children, soon. We also need more vaccine mandates and more use of vaccine passports to enter places, but that’s not going to fight Delta today or in the next few weeks.

Also, a note on masks. If you are looking for a mask recommendation and find the KN-95 uncomfortable, try the KF-94, which is the Korean high-quality mask. They fold and refold flat, they’re shaped differently than KF-95’s, and they generally come in individual packages. I buy my KF-94s through Amazon, and this particular listing is the one I used, though I have no affiliation with the company. And, yeah, they’re expensive.

Edit: Cleek commented that there were some comments on that Amazon link saying the masks are toxic, etc. It looks like the seller (or some other seller) substituted some other mask for the KF-94 that I purchased via that link earlier. I’ll leave the link up because the pictured mask is the one I got – no smell, high quality. Just beware.

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Reader Interactions

154Comments

  1. 1.

    w_seattle

    August 9, 2021 at 12:17 pm

    Indeed, getting out of the pandemic relies on limiting spread and variants everywhere, which means vaccination + masks/distancing. Another mask alternative comes from this Seattle company (https://www.purakamasks.com, no affiliation), which makes rated cloth masks and inserts that approach KF95-type performance. Moreover, I think actually achieving the fully rated performance with a KF95 is hard to do and would lead to a noticeable constraint on breathing.

  2. 2.

    eclare

    August 9, 2021 at 12:19 pm

    I started using N95, and wow they are snug!

  3. 3.

    Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix

    August 9, 2021 at 12:21 pm

    @w_seattle: I’ve used a mask with inserts made by Outdoor Research.  The inserts are made of material that appeared to me to be similar to a vacuum cleaner filter.  In this particular mask, keeping the insert in place was a chore.  Also, the KF-94, KN-95 and N-95 masks are all stiff enough to leave some space between your mouth/nose and the filtration material.  The insert mask was softer and the filtration material was closer to the nose/mouth.   Therefore, it was more likely to get damp from breathing than the KN-95/N-95/KF-94 masks that I’ve worn.  So that’s my experience, for what it’s worth.

  4. 4.

    The Moar You Know

    August 9, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    Two things:

    1:

    Scott Gottlieb, Trump’s former FDA director, recently recommended KN-95 masks or equivalent for adults (and I saw on Twitter somewhere, children). Yeah, he was Trump’s asshole, but even a stopped asshole is right once in a while.

    I see shit on the news from this asshole every day  How the fuck is he getting oxygen?  I don’t even know who the current FDA director is, much less see them getting into the media, although frankly with their inexcusable dropping of masking recommendations a few months back maybe that’s for the best.

    2. (related to blockquote) kids – not young teens but kids – can’t wear N95/KN95s effectively.  Their faces are just too small.  The whole point of the N/KN/P series of masks is that they seal ALL THE WAY around your face, from your nose down to your jaw.  It’s been an unholy bitch trying to find some that fit my wife properly, and I’m one of the (relatively) few people in this country who’s had to work in a respirator for a living, so I know both where to find a selection and how to fit them to people.  Trying to fit kids with them is going to be a waste of money and a false sense of safety.

    A N/KN/P series mask that doesn’t fit your face 100% is literally no better than one of those surgical masks and a lot more expensive

    ETA:  don’t get me wrong, mask the fuck up with whatever you’ve got.  I never stopped and I do it if I step out the front door.  There are no “safe zones” in my world save for my house.

  5. 5.

    Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix

    August 9, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    @eclare: Yes, that’s what makes them effective.  A real N-95 is really snug because the bands are high-quality elastic, fit over your head, and pull back hard.

    A good compromise for longer-term wear is a KN-95 with earloops or a KF-94 (which I believe only comes with earloops).  One of the virtues of the KF-94 that I linked is that the earloops are adjustable. The earloop masks just can’t pull as tightly as the ones where the bands go over the head.

  6. 6.

    Scout211

    August 9, 2021 at 12:25 pm

    We use these two types of N95 and KN95 masks:

    3M Aura N95

    The 3M Aura masks are also sold at Home Depot, but there is limited supply.

    Powecom KN95

    The Powecom masks are also sold through https://bonafidemasks.com/

  7. 7.

    Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix

    August 9, 2021 at 12:26 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    It’s been an unholy bitch trying to find some that fit my wife properly, and I’m one of the (relatively) few people in this country who’s had to work in a respirator for a living, so I know both where to find a selection and how to fit them to people.  Trying to fit kids with them is going to be a waste of money and a false sense of safety.

    My wife has a small face and has to be fitted for N-95s at work, and the small size works for her.  I wasn’t aware that they didn’t make them smaller for kids, good to know.  Serves me right for listening to Gottlieb.

  8. 8.

    Cacti

    August 9, 2021 at 12:28 pm

    Every Dem needs to start referring to Delta as the DeSantis variant.

    When a new one pops up, name it after another Republican governor.  Rinse and repeat.

    Dems need to get better at going after the low hanging messaging fruit.

  9. 9.

    The Moar You Know

    August 9, 2021 at 12:29 pm

    My wife has a small face and has to be fitted for N-95s at work, and the small size works for her.  I wasn’t aware that they didn’t make them smaller for kids, good to know.

    @Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: It’s been hard to even find the small ones; I hope that production on those is increasing.

  10. 10.

    w_seattle

    August 9, 2021 at 12:35 pm

    @Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: I haven’t used the Outdoor Research version, but I think Puraka likely makes a better and different mask and filter. It’s their specialty and I think this is reflected by the technical details on their website. I haven’t had much issue with wearing their masks except with exercise.

  11. 11.

    Tim C.

    August 9, 2021 at 12:36 pm

    Me, How fast can we get a vaccine for kids under 12?   Under 5?      It matters a lot as Elementary Schools are going to have the highest concentration of victims from families of people not being fucking insane about things.

  12. 12.

    Benw

    August 9, 2021 at 12:38 pm

    Two things: 1. require a vaccine for in-person school this fall for 12+ kids, same as any of the other vaccines that are required, and 2. require proof of vaccination to buy alcohol. Fuck their feelings

  13. 13.

    VeniceRiley

    August 9, 2021 at 12:39 pm

    @Tim C.: End of the year, I heard. Trials are happening now to determine safety, dosage and efficacy, and one shot or 2, etc.

  14. 14.

    eclare

    August 9, 2021 at 12:40 pm

    @Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:  I don’t see me wearing a mask for longer than about thirty minutes because my world has shrunk so much, so I’ll go with snug over a more comfortable mask.  Thanks for the info!

    ETA>  Thirty minutes at a time.

  15. 15.

    Tim C.

    August 9, 2021 at 12:42 pm

    @VeniceRiley:  I know I should be more patient… but the local wackjobs are going to infect my kid at school, I know it.

  16. 16.

    eclare

    August 9, 2021 at 12:43 pm

    @Benw:  Proof of vaccination to buy booze…I like that idea!

  17. 17.

    cmorenc

    August 9, 2021 at 12:45 pm

    there’s a report from Mesa County, CO, deep in Lauren Boebert’s district, where their 36% vaccination rate led to 900 Delta cases in a county with a population of 154,000, as well as the first pediatric death from COVID.

    My daughter lives in Grand Junction, Co (county seat of Mesa Co) – and while visiting her just a week ago, she remarked that even pre-COVID, Mesa County had a disproportionate concentration of anti-vaxxers.  BTW, she is a physician who’s lived there several years, and so her familiarity with vaxxing attitudes there is more than just casually anecdotal.  On my recent visit, I also noticed that masking was practically nonexistent = whereas back here in Raleigh, NC the trend has dramatically changed back to >50% people masking in grocery stores over the week or so while I was gone.  I will be returning to Grand Junction for another visit mid-September, and it will be interesting to see whether the recent news about the substantially higher transmissibility of delta-COVID has motivated any notable change in masking practices in Grand Junction.

  18. 18.

    Old School

    August 9, 2021 at 12:46 pm

    @VeniceRiley:

    @Tim C.:

    I had seen a mid-winter estimate for under-12 vaccinations, so I’ve assumed this school year is mostly shot.

    If my kids are able to get shots by mid-January, that translates into the end of March for being fully vaccinated.  I doubt all of their classmates will be in as much of a rush.

  19. 19.

    laura

    August 9, 2021 at 12:48 pm

    Recommending the AirQueen nano mask- the fit is really, really good. It’s very easy breathing, doesn’t fog my glasses, great filtration, can be sanitized by a spritz of alcohol and doesn’t touch your mouth or nose per the design.

    Here in Sacramento the delta variant is raging. A married couple in our friends group are convalescing with breakthrough Covid and describe it as “really fucking sick and awful” they were sick and symptomatic within 48 hours of notice of exposure, but initially negative via home test kits. He tested positive at urgent care that night and she did too. I spent the day with her just before they were exposed and am fortunate and grateful to have dodged a bullet. I’m masked in every public setting for the foreseeable future.

  20. 20.

    Tim C.

    August 9, 2021 at 12:51 pm

    @Old School: I got an eleven year old, so he gets the first shot as soon as the HMO says he can in December.  I’m hoping they relent a little before his calendar birthday.

    My almost 10 year old is the most in need.

  21. 21.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    August 9, 2021 at 12:55 pm

    Rand Paul has ascended to the upper atmosphere of all-out batshit craziness:

    It’s time for us to resist. They can’t arrest all of us. They can’t keep all of your kids home from school. … We don’t have to accept the mandates, lockdowns and harmful policies of the petty tyrants and bureaucrats. We can simply say no. Not again.

    Nancy Pelosi, you will not arrest, or stop me or anyone on my staff from doing our jobs. We have either had Covid, had the vaccine, or been offered the vaccine. We will make our own health choices. We will not show you a passport. We will not wear a mask. We will not be forced into random screenings so you can continue your drunk with power reign over the Capitol. President Biden, we will not accept your agencies’ mandates or your reported moves towards a lockdown.

    h/t https://www.mediaite.com/news/they-cant-arrest-all-of-us-rand-paul-implores-defiance-of-covid-mandates-from-petty-tyrants-in-wild-rant/

  22. 22.

    Mart

    August 9, 2021 at 12:56 pm

    I have a big nose. I use a 3M N95 vented (non-surgical) mask. Has a heavy duty “M” shaped nose clamp that over the years I found was the only one that sealed over my nose. So I started to collect them under my hard hat. Since the masks are vented I wear a heavy cloth mask over it to protect others. I have worn them for over eight hours in nasty ass dusty conditions in 100 degree heat. Sometimes on 15 flights of stairs have to collect my breath, but that happens without a mask.  Really don’t get the restricted breathing complaints. Was able to buy them at cov.care who have a large selection of high quality masks. Ordered some during the last peak and thought they were scammers since order never came. They informed me were filling orders for first responders first and my order did eventually arrive.

  23. 23.

    DB11

    August 9, 2021 at 1:00 pm

    I posted this on the tail end of the morning thread, but it seems more relevant here:

    Respokare makes an 5-layer, antiviral N95 mask (using copper and zinc in the middle layer to inactivate viral particles) that could provide some additional protection — a good option for when you have to be out-and-about amongst the great unwashed.

    I’m considering a cross-country flight next month for a family memorial, and if I decide to go I’m planning on getting some of these to use on the plane:

    https://n95maskco.com/collections/n95-masks/products/respokare-n95-face-mask-5-pack

    It has a soft internal rubber gasket for the nose bridge (as well as the standard metal bridge) to really seal well at that most-difficult-to-fit juncture. I haven’t got these yet, but I have used a valved N95 mask with such a gasket, and it makes a huge difference in the effectiveness of the seal.

  24. 24.

    Benw

    August 9, 2021 at 1:00 pm

    @eclare: MAGAs will have to hang around outside liquor stores and offer vaccinated people $20 to buy them some beers!

  25. 25.

    swiftfox

    August 9, 2021 at 1:06 pm

    While Gottlieb was appointed by Trump, he did leave in August 2019, probably for the money (he is on the board of directors for Pfizer). The percentage of his correct statements matches Fauci. The only problem I have is when the idiot Kramer acts as his cheerleader (“Dr. Fauci should listen to Scott Gottlieb”).

  26. 26.

    SFAW

    August 9, 2021 at 1:13 pm

    @Cacti:

    Every Dem needs to start referring to Delta as the DeSantis variant.

    When a new one pops up, name it after another Republican governor.  Rinse and repeat.

    Driving around this AM, listening to NPR discuss today’s IPCC report, I was ruminating about the ills directly and indirectly traceable to Fox News (et al.) and Rupert Murdoch. They, and he, have been very successful at turning the stupid in this country (and others, vis-a-vis Murdoch) up to 11. This has led to myriad problems, including roadblocking global warming mitigation, encouraging sedition and insurrection, and helping push the country into war (Iraq, for example), the response to COVID. The insanity and treason* of the Rethuglican Partei is no small part of that.

    It got me to thinking that maybe Rupert (and Lachlan, I guess) should be tried for Crimes Against Humanity. They’d (probably) never be convicted, but I’d like to see someone put the fear of god into them.

    * Various lawyers here have said (or indicated) Treason only applies when there is an active war with a declared enemy. I expect it makes me a Bad Person for responding “Do it anyway.”

  27. 27.

    Ruckus

    August 9, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    I use Well Before masks. Buy them online, N95, they meet Federal standards for the N95, use the same material for the surgical masks and have around the ear and around the neck. Price is good. I am happy with the quality, price and delivery. I believe they have a US plant, they are a Chinese company.

  28. 28.

    Starfish

    August 9, 2021 at 1:18 pm

    @Tim C.: They have said not until midwinter.

    With the trials for younger kids, they are trying to collect 4 months of data rather than the two they used for older ones.

  29. 29.

    Ruckus

    August 9, 2021 at 1:19 pm

    @SFAW:

    Two bad humans then.

  30. 30.

    gene108

    August 9, 2021 at 1:20 pm

    I’ve been using three layer cloth masks and four layer disposable surgical masks.

    At this point, I’ll go with double masking.

  31. 31.

    CaseyL

    August 9, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    Got my 10-pack of NIOSH N95 masks from Home Depot, which are also 5-layer masks but don’t have the metallic filters.  I also still have a lot of surgical masks left from the early days of the pandemic, as well as cloth ones that apparently aren’t of much use so I shouldn’t keep using them, or double them up with a surgical mask.

    I’m fully-vaxxed, and live/work in an area that takes the pandemic seriously, so feel reasonably safe for day to day life.  But my autumn trip to Maine (assuming I still take it) I’ll definitely want the N95s while at the airport and on the plane, there and back.

  32. 32.

    raven

    August 9, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    @CaseyL:

    cloth ones that apparently aren’t of much use

     

    Is this true or what?

  33. 33.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    Meanwhile….

     

    Glenn Greenwald

    @ggreenwald

    There’s a lot to say about the gloating, borderline-celebratory media stories on those dying of COVID while unvaccinated. I wonder if the same reaction would be provoked with headlines like: “OBESE MAN, 51, WHO REFUSED TO DIET OR EXERCISE, IN ICU AFTER MASSIVE HEART ATTACK.”

    Quote Tweet

    Laurie Garrett

    @Laurie_Garrett

    · 1h

    The internet is blowing up with stories like these: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/dick-farrell-anti-vaccine-radio-host-dies-covid.html?via=rss_socialflow_twitter… and https://cnn.com/2021/08/08/us/florida-church-covid-deaths-vaccination-clinic-trnd/index.html… Liberals respond with snide, superior comments — a “serves ’em right” attitude. But we won’t stop #COVID19 unless we express compassion. Why were they misled? How can we help?

    11:42 AM · Aug 9, 2021·Twitter Web App

    529
    Retweets

    39
    Quote Tweets

    2,742
    Likes

  34. 34.

    dmsilev

    August 9, 2021 at 1:33 pm

    @Ruckus: That’s where I got my disposable masks from as well. Some of my colleagues did droplet permeability measurements on a bunch of different mask brands, and WellBefore tested out as quite effective.

  35. 35.

    Uncle Omar

    August 9, 2021 at 1:33 pm

    @cmorenc: I’m familiar with Grand Junction and Mesa County.  Early this year the Republican County Commissioners issued a statement essentially dumping all requirements regarding masking and social distancing.  There are enough howling mad anti-vax and anti-mask loons that the school board is afraid to require masks as school starts today.  The only places in town requiring masks are medical facilities and even they get pushback from the crazies.

    There are a lot of people who “wear” a mask by putting on but over their respective chins and occasional pull it up over their mouths if they’re trying to look compliant.  (While they are “mouth-breathers” in the colloquial, they might not be in the literal.)  These are the same people who in states requiring that motorcyclists wear helmets strap the helmets to their knees to own the cops.

  36. 36.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 1:34 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    However, I’m willing to try….

  37. 37.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 1:35 pm

    “Killin’ Memaw to own them libruls….”

  38. 38.

    Cacti

    August 9, 2021 at 1:35 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Greenwald parroting the Republican party line?

    Shocked, I tell you.

  39. 39.

    cain

    August 9, 2021 at 1:36 pm

    @Cacti: ​
     
    They are too busy trying to actually do the business of governing – most of these people aren’t marketing type people. We need to find someone who can balance both so that we can go after them exactly as you say.

  40. 40.

    VeniceRiley

    August 9, 2021 at 1:36 pm

    @Ruckus:  Nice website there. Lots of discounts and large variety of types and kids sizes!

    https://wellbefore.com/collections/masks

  41. 41.

    Starfish

    August 9, 2021 at 1:37 pm

    @Uncle Omar: The Douglas County school board meeting was such a mess. It seemed like my spouse’s parents were surprised at the number of people not wearing masks. We were mostly outdoors if anywhere at all; and in general, people here have stopped masking outdoors.

  42. 42.

    cain

    August 9, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    @laura: ​
     
    I assume this is despite being vaccinated?

  43. 43.

    cmorenc

    August 9, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    @Uncle Omar: @cmorenc: I’m familiar with Grand Junction and Mesa County.  Early this year the Republican County Commissioners issued a statement essentially dumping all requirements regarding masking and social distancing.  There are enough howling mad anti-vax and anti-mask loons that the school board is afraid to require masks as school starts today.  The only places in town requiring masks are medical facilities and even they get pushback from the crazies.

    On another previous trip to Grand Junction in fall of 2020 at the height of COVID and masking everywhere else (even in GJ a clear majority were then-compliant in stores), nonetheless at e.g. Home Depot, which had plainly posted at its doors that masks were required for entry, I noticed a substantial minority of folks striding in maskless  with defiant body language against anyone who dare challenge them (which store staff didn’t).

  44. 44.

    hueyplong

    August 9, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    Greenwald’s just pissed because he thinks he has intellectual property rights on smugness and superiority and he senses infringement everywhere.

  45. 45.

    Percysowner

    August 9, 2021 at 1:45 pm

    Lucky me. I live in Ohio. Our Governor, Mike DeWine, a man I disagree with on almost everything, was smart and proactive when COVID hit. He locked down the state. He ordered mask wearing. The head of the Department of Health went on TV every day to warn people of the dangers of COVID.

    Then the backlash hit. The head of the DoH was Jewish and ended up with people on her front lawn, yelling racial slurs and threatening her and her children. She eventually resigned.

    Next the state legislature passed a law forbidding the Governor or the Department of Health to order shutdown, masking or requiring vaccination. They also forbade municipalities, townships, counties, etc. from implementing mask requirements or proof vaccinations. They are planning to come back and pass legislation preventing businesses from requiring masks for employees or customers and again, preventing businesses from requiring employees be vaccinated. The Governor vetoed everything, but the legislature overrode the veto. Ohio, soon to be the next Florida!

    I wear my KN95 masks everywhere, even though I’m vaccinated. I have a 3 year old granddaughter and until she is vaccinated, I’ll stay masked as as far from crowded places as I can. Other than that, I’m stuck watching my state Slouching Towards, if not Bethlehem, then at least plague.

  46. 46.

    frosty

    August 9, 2021 at 1:54 pm

    @Scout211: My local Home Depot had at least 15 boxes of 3M Aura N95 masks. I bought 2 boxes a week or so ago. It’s worth checking your local store.

    Lowes didn’t have anything comparable.

  47. 47.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 1:56 pm

    Goddammit, completely ON topic, I just stopped into my favorite street diner for lunch. At the next table, I first got treated to the smug explanation by some douche about his affair to some casual business acquaintance. It was amusing. They were replaced by a pair of late 50-something men who were prattling about not going to things requiring masks, because they would be breathing their own CO2. I noisily put my mask on in their direction when I left.

  48. 48.

    cain

    August 9, 2021 at 1:57 pm

    @Percysowner:
    It’s funny how quickly they descend to fascism – while simultaneously talking about freedom.

    they are taking quite the risk though because if there is a more variants that makes it even worse – only those who wear masks and are vaccinated are going to survive.

    Never mind that this is going to keep coming at you – you can keep getting infected and if the first time you get it doesn’t spur you to get vaccinated – a new variant will come again and hammer you again.

  49. 49.

    KrackenJack

    August 9, 2021 at 1:59 pm

    This is a perfectly timed thread. Just spent 3 hours in my over the ear KN-95 mask. It was painful. Plus I have long flight in November. So I’m back on the market for one with adjustable ear loops or behind the head. Looks like Well Before is out of stock, but I have time.

  50. 50.

    Earl

    August 9, 2021 at 2:02 pm

    I’m actually wearing a mask as little as I can get away with.  I’ve been fully vaxxed since May; stayed home for 15 months and wore n95s everywhere for the last round; but I have no accepted that I’m going to be repeatedly exposed until I get delta.  Just like chicken pox, I’m ready to get it over with.

    Since nobody is serious about the mandates that get us to 90+% vaccine coverage, we’re all getting this.  Or are going to be repeatedly exposed at minimum.

  51. 51.

    Soprano2

    August 9, 2021 at 2:03 pm

    @Percysowner: Whatever happened to letting the free market decide? I thought businesses were supposed to be able to do what they want. I guess that only applies to things Republicans agree with them doing, huh? ???

  52. 52.

    piratedan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:05 pm

    @frosty: that could be that its percolated down into my awareness that Home Depot is run by a wingnut and Lowes (to my understanding) is not.

    Hence life saving masks go unpurchased at HD as a statement to “own the Libs”, whereas the location that is not staffed by people who work for loons can’t keep common sense items on the shelf.

    Not saying that is THE explanation, but just a best guess.

  53. 53.

    Betty Cracker

    August 9, 2021 at 2:06 pm

    @Earl: I am still actively trying to avoid getting COVID by limiting exposure to others and wearing a mask when I grocery shop, etc. But the governor seems determined to ensure that every Floridian is exposed repeatedly, and I’m starting to feel like getting infected is inevitable too. So goddamn infuriating.

  54. 54.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 9, 2021 at 2:10 pm

    @SFAW:

    * Various lawyers here have said (or indicated) Treason only applies when there is an active war with a declared enemy. I expect it makes me a Bad Person for responding “Do it anyway.”

    I’ll join you in being a Bad Person.  The January 6 insurrection was an attempt to overthrow the legal government of the United States through violent means.  I can’t see why it matters whether anything was ‘declared.’  They were Americans who made war on the United States.  Seems to fit the definition of treason in the first clause of Article III, Section 3 like a glove.

    And re Covid, Congress could (and IMHO should) pass a resolution stating that we’re in a state of war with the SARS-Cov-2 virus.  That would take care of the ‘declared’ part, and the politicians and ‘news’ channels that continued to be purveyors of vaccine, mask, and other Covid misinformation, leading to American deaths at the hands of the viral enemy, would be aiding the enemy, fitting the next clause of Article III, Section 3.  Treason again.

  55. 55.

    Peale

    August 9, 2021 at 2:10 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: If your own CO2 is deadly, imagine what my CO2 is like? Actually, he probably thinks he breathes out C204, because he’s just better than others.

  56. 56.

    Kelly

    August 9, 2021 at 2:13 pm

    @piratedan:that could be that its percolated down into my awareness that Home Depot is run by a wingnut and Lowes (to my understanding) is not.

    Home Depot founder Ken Langone is a prominent wingnut and RW money contributor. He’s retired and Home Depot is just another soulless corporation no different than Lowes.

  57. 57.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    August 9, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    @piratedan:

    Hence life saving masks go unpurchased at HD as a statement to “own the Libs”, whereas the location that is not staffed by people who work for loons can’t keep common sense items on the shelf.

    The only way that would make any sense is if they didn’t stock masks at all, purchasing is not made at the lowly staff level.

    Full disclosure: I’m one of the lowly staff.

  58. 58.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 9, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    You’re braver than I am.  My wife and I still aren’t ready to dine at indoor restaurants, and I doubt we will be anytime soon – no way to mask while eating, so we’d be unmasked in a room full of unmasked strangers.  The very thought of it gives me the willies.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    August 9, 2021 at 2:15 pm

    Apparently there was a plan early in the pandemic – April 2020 – for the USPS to deliver 5 masks to every household. (The story came out in September 2020.) TFG’s White House killed it, of course. I wouldn’t be surprised if DeJoy was involved – he took office May 6, 2020.

    DeJoy gotta go too, also too.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    Gvg

    August 9, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    @piratedan: unfortunately, Lowe’s ownership is also wingnut from my understanding. Home Depot’s masks get purchased, just not sold out. Earlier in the pandemic they would only sell them to healthcare workers, now supplies caught up.

    I tried the N 95s, but they were too big for my face. I am told their are 2 sizes, but I don’t know how to find the smalls. The Kn95s were recommended. I just bought some and they seem better. The cloth masks I have don’t seal tight enough for real protection.

    My sister the doctor, just unregistered my nephew. School starts tomorrow. He will be home schooled by grandparents for at least 9 weeks. She was so unhappy and was saying it was inevitable he would catch it. She didn’t want to ask grandparents to do this again after a year and a half. The facts are she has imposed on them for less important reasons and was trying to be better. Our mother was trying not to interfere so she didn’t say anything to offer. When I realized, I had to tell them why she hadn’t asked. So they offered again. My sister lost a doctor friend about 2 weeks ago to Covid. She was pretty depressed. Lots of nurses out sick.

  61. 61.

    JPL

    August 9, 2021 at 2:21 pm

    @Kelly: That one is, but Arthur Blank is supporting Rock the Vote

    Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank is wading into the elections process, helping launch a nonprofit called Democracy Class Atlanta that seeks to educate Georgia students on the civic system.  The program will offer lessons on the history of voting and local government to Atlanta Public Schools students, culminating in an event at Mercedes-Benz Stadium.  Students will be encouraged to register to vote and even sign up as poll workers.

  62. 62.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:21 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    One wonders who “we” is in Rand Paul’s little noggin. “I contain multitudes! Hey multitudes, gather ’round. Multitudes?”

  63. 63.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:23 pm

    @JPL: Good, that’s good. Especially given what’s happening in Georgia.

  64. 64.

    Scout211

    August 9, 2021 at 2:23 pm

    @frosty:

    I ordered two boxes from Amazon and they have shipped. I found one 10 pack at our local Home Depot but the 10 pack is not available at any Home Depot stores within 100 miles of my location now. A few have the 3 pack on the shelf, though.

    I actually ordered the ones from Amazon weeks ago because of the fires and smoke around here in NorCal. Regular masks do not filter the particulates in the air from smoke. Little did I know that I might need them again for COVID.  But now I have enough for both.

  65. 65.

    frosty

    August 9, 2021 at 2:25 pm

    @piratedan: HD is no longer owned by the wingnut. I did a little internet research and they both have PACs that contribute to Republicans. So I’ve made my peace, I’ll shop at whichever carries what I’m looking for.

  66. 66.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 2:27 pm

    @Peale:

    Fact is, the only potential danger is if someone is already in a state of respiratory distress, and even that requires some other extreme factors.

    FULL DISCLOSURE – when we were on our Vietnam trip, there was a wicked little respiratory thing kicking around the first week or so. When we got to Saigon, air quality was really bad by way of particulates, so those who still suffered suffered hard. One lady had been particularly hammered, and was nearly collapsed while we were in a crowded tarmac shuttle to getting a flight to Phnom Penh. I muscled my way back to her shouting “xin loi” (excuse me) to all the Vietnamese in the way, and took her mask off when I realized it was filthy and affecting airflow – leaving her a lot of excess CO2. Plus, she was in her 80s.

    But like I said, that’s at the extreme of things.

  67. 67.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:28 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Right? That dude obviously caught his obesity from some dude standing next to him at the bar, a week ago Thursday.

  68. 68.

    JPL

    August 9, 2021 at 2:30 pm

    Apparently grand imp has to wear a mask to his school which starts on Wednesday.   Their policy had been over two, but since Delta is so prevalent in GA, the age was lowered to include two.   He’s still having difficulties with the over the nose part though.

    BTW  Someone I know, was promoted while on maternity leave from HD, and just recently received another promotion a few weeks away from her second maternity leave.   If you are a nursing mom who has to travel for work, they use a service called Milk stork.    The original owners of HD are not involved in day to day operations.

  69. 69.

    Another Scott

    August 9, 2021 at 2:30 pm

    @cain: I caught a snippet of something on one of the NPR radio shows on the weekend.

    “Why did the Germans keep fighting past 1943-1944 when it was clear that they were going to lose?  They did it for their comrades, not because of ideology, etc., …”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same with the most of the insanity these days.  It’s tribal, at a very personal, very local level.  If they can’t reinforce each other via personal interactions, the insanity weakens.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  70. 70.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:31 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    In the situation you describe (filtering airborne particulates) masks with one-way exhaust valves are called for. Not what we need for covid but I see them used for that anyway.

    Not that that would “fix” a clogged mask, though. I’m glad to have a mask supply handy now for wildfire smoke season. A new summer-fall tradition!

  71. 71.

    dmsilev

    August 9, 2021 at 2:36 pm

    The U.S. military will mandate Covid-19 vaccine for troops.

    Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III will seek to order mandatory coronavirus vaccines for 1.3 million active duty American troops, even if the Food and Drug Administration has not issued full approval for the inoculation, administration officials said Monday.

  72. 72.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    We’re trying to live out such normality as is possible. Wife’s now thinking that it will take her at least five years to rebuild her career after summer 2022, and we’ve taken a massive income and lifestyle hit.

    We have a Greek trip planned for September (our only one this year), and that’s because our flights are free and stays are cheap. I figure most on the planes will be vaccinated and masked, safer than filthy courthouses and groceries.

    Those who say “businesses can be ‘rebuilt’ (whatever that means) and we just have to shut everything down in order to save every life possible” have zero understanding of the wreckage their particular advocacy is wreaking to hope and aspirations. My answer to them is “prepare to start writing checks, big ones”.  I always note that the policymakers and advocates who talk about “tough choices” never have to bear the consequences of those choices. We’ve literally done everything we’re supposed to, and are getting crushed.

  73. 73.

    germy

    August 9, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Heads up for some extremely hot takes from the Chairborne Rangers https://t.co/50WTADXBvE— Roy Edroso (@edroso) August 9, 2021

  74. 74.

    louc

    August 9, 2021 at 2:40 pm

    NBC News has an article about the best KN-95 masks. I was going to pick one of these until seeing your excellent suggestions.

  75. 75.

    RaflW

    August 9, 2021 at 2:40 pm

    I’ve been pretty happy with some FFP2s I got last winter. I can’t say if Guangzhou Powecom Labor Insurance Supplies Co., LTD is a reliable manufacturer, but I like the fit, it folds easily for a pocket time when I’m outdoors, and I cannot stand ear loops so the behind the head straps are a must (my glasses fall off my face if I wear an ear loop mask any tighter than a lax surgical design – I guess I have floppy ears).

    I’ve worn the mask up to 5 hours at a time (traveling) and while the bridge of my nose eventually gets a little annoyed, I’ll gladly do this. I could be wrong, but I’m of the belief that this type of masking helps protect me as well as you. I’m selfish like that.

  76. 76.

    lowtechcyclist

    August 9, 2021 at 2:40 pm

    @frosty:

    HD is no longer owned by the wingnut. I did a little internet research and they both have PACs that contribute to Republicans. So I’ve made my peace, I’ll shop at whichever carries what I’m looking for.

    I’m lucky, I’ve got an Ace Hardware about five minutes from my house.  I don’t buy anything at HD unless the local Ace doesn’t carry it.  (The nearest Lowe’s is 45+ minutes away, so they’re right out.)

    If I’m in the middle of a weekend project and discover there’s yet one more thing I need, I can run and get it, and be back to work on my project, in under 20 minutes.

  77. 77.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 2:42 pm

    @germy:

    Well, you know, he’s one of them…

  78. 78.

    Jim Appleton

    August 9, 2021 at 2:44 pm

    If you’d told me two years ago that today we’d be comparing notes on protective face masks on an almost top ten thousand blog …

  79. 79.

    germy

    August 9, 2021 at 2:44 pm

    Upstate NY is not doing well.

    Four more local counties join Saratoga and the Berkshires in the “high” transmission category on the CDC’s COVID tracker map.

    Those counties include Warren, Schenectady, Albany, and Rensselaer.

  80. 80.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    August 9, 2021 at 2:46 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    We cleaned the garage this weekend. Discovered a lot of things that I picked up here and there to finish projects. Paint rollers, rolling trays, wrenches, sockets, scrapers exist at my house in such abundance that 8 could have a nice little flea market stall.

    There might have been some scolding of some guy for not bothering to find things he already had before buying new ones.

  81. 81.

    BretH

    August 9, 2021 at 2:49 pm

    We have a number of masks from DNA Masks – they’re $20 each but we decided that having quality masks always available was worth a lot. So we have maybe 12 of them so there’s always a few freshly washed.

    They’re comfortable, have a head strap and ear loops and when well fitted will pull towards your face when inhaling.

    https://dnahealthcarestore.com/collections/all-facemasks

    Sad though, to put on the halloween decorated masks we bought last October thinking here we are almost a year later.

  82. 82.

    evodevo

    August 9, 2021 at 2:52 pm

    @Percysowner: ​  Yep.. Mr. Evodevo and I run an antique store in northern KY on the border with OH. We implemented a mask mandate 4 Saturdays ago, when the positive test levels started rising. All the defiant anti-maskers we’ve had to throw out of the store are from OH so far….one woman went back to her car, came back in wearing her mask, and bitched about DeWine and our gov Beshear the entire time (with us occasionally interjecting anti-nonsense comments), but still had her mask on when she left LOL. So far, we’re doing more business this year than in the past several (not counting 2020), and I am wondering if it is because our insistence on masks makes the other customers feel comfortable shopping in a sanity zone LOL​

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    August 9, 2021 at 2:53 pm

    If you haven’t seen XKCD today, click on over.

    It’s almost like scientists are able to make accurate predictions about the future of Anthropogenic Global Warming…

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    Nicole

    August 9, 2021 at 2:55 pm

    @Starfish:

    @Tim C.:

    It might (MIGHT) be a little sooner for ages 5-11; Pfizer anticipates releasing results of trials for that age group in September and will apply for EUA then.  I don’t know how long EUA approval takes, though.

    Here’s hoping, as that would cover most school-aged children.

  85. 85.

    cleek

    August 9, 2021 at 2:55 pm

    be sure to read the comments on those Amazon masks!

    Toxic

    Mask was comfortable and efficient. Subsequent allergic react has resulted in two dermatologist visits, high dose steroids and possible permanent scarring. Get this product out of circulation.

  86. 86.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:56 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Private Godbody: “I quit, you can’t make me get that vaccine!”

    Sergeant Givesafuck: “You mean go AWOL? I’ll start the paperwork.”

  87. 87.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 2:59 pm

    @Another Scott:

    The IPCC report is full-bore hair-on-fire. I’m sure Exxon will take note and begin acting responsibly.

  88. 88.

    bnateAZ

    August 9, 2021 at 2:59 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca: Rand’s neighbor needed to finish the job. Such a garbage being. I can’t even call him human any more that’s how angry I am.

  89. 89.

    dmsilev

    August 9, 2021 at 3:00 pm

    This chart is something else. (via @TheBrowser) pic.twitter.com/3FUl2X1KuO— Jodi Ettenberg (@legalnomads) August 9, 2021

    Takeaways: 9 percent of American adults are Florida Man. There is, apparently, a substantial trans-Atlantic Goose Gap.

  90. 90.

    CaseyL

    August 9, 2021 at 3:03 pm

    @raven:  It’s what I’ve been hearing, because cloth masks tend to fit much more loosely, particularly after washing/re-use.

    Delta particles are smaller than Alpha, which means (I think) they float on air longer and further, enabling Delta to be more transmissible.   Also your mask needs to fit more tightly to keep them out.

    It sounds weird when I write it out like that, but that seems to be the consensus.

  91. 91.

    Ken

    August 9, 2021 at 3:05 pm

    @BretH: We have a number of masks from DNA Masks

    “Remember, that’s DNA Masks, because we aren’t a supervillain front!”

  92. 92.

    Scout211

    August 9, 2021 at 3:13 pm

    A good explanation of the dangers of breathing wildfire smoke and why many of us are stocking up on the N95 particulate masks. I also purchased a home air purifier with a HEPA filter and an additional replacement filter for toxins.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wildfire-smoke-exposure-health_l_610aa964e4b0552883e823f4

    If you can afford an air purifier — they can be pricey! — get one with a HEPA filter. Keep your doors and windows closed. Older homes and rental properties tend to be leakier and allow more air pollution in. You can also purchase a MERV-13 filter and put it in a box fan or your AC unit. Make sure you’re regularly cleaning your car filters as they can collect a lot of particles over time. (You can find a list of filtering products certified by the Asthma & Allergy Foundation of America here.)

    If you do venture outside when the PM 2.5 levels are high, bring a mask. N95 masks are the gold standard because they filter all of the air that you breathe in. Though surgical masks are less effective, they’re ultimately better than having no barrier between you and the harmful particles in wildfire smoke.

     

  93. 93.

    Ken

    August 9, 2021 at 3:13 pm

    @dmsilev: It reminds me of the old joke about the Chihuahua killing the Doberman — by getting caught in its throat.

  94. 94.

    CaseyL

    August 9, 2021 at 3:13 pm

    @raven: PS – I think double masking, a cloth and a surgical, might be OK.

    I’ve been pretty lax: wearing cloth masks, often times just grabbing them up where I left them in the car.  I need to be more diligent.

    I’m also enrolled in a post-vaccination study at UW, to see how protected people are long-term.  This week I go in for a Covid test, the first since I tested negative way back in the early months of the pandemic.  I was sniffly-sneezy a few days ago (and I mean: sneezing a LOT) plus headache and sore throat (both gone now) so I’m a little concerned.

  95. 95.

    piratedan

    August 9, 2021 at 3:18 pm

    @frosty: cool, thanks to everyone for the informational update on ownership.

  96. 96.

    sempronia

    August 9, 2021 at 3:25 pm

    Posted earlier on a thoroughly dead thread that the California Department of Public Health has given all health care workers a vaccine mandate – you have to get your second shot of mRNA or first J+J shot by Sept 30. They still leave a religious and medical exemption, which is a big loophole, but I’m surprised that there’s been so little reaction to this news so far.

  97. 97.

    sab

    August 9, 2021 at 3:36 pm

    @CaseyL: My tie-behind-the-head two layer cotton knit cloth masks have a pocket to insert a filter between the two cloth layers. I think I’ll insert coffee filters in the pocket and use those for now.

  98. 98.

    sab

    August 9, 2021 at 3:39 pm

    @Ken: My pitbull let chihuahuas ride around the yard hanging from her ear, and now one ear is a bit damaged.

  99. 99.

    JPL

    August 9, 2021 at 3:42 pm

    @raven: OT   Congrats on the new addition to your household.

    Although I have filters to insert, I haven’t felt the need to use them.   Any shopping I do is finished before nine, when the stores are less crowded.   I do wear a mask though.    Just be careful.

  100. 100.

    sdhays

    August 9, 2021 at 3:48 pm

    @Nicole: There was also something in the last couple of weeks about the FDA wanting an even larger test pool, so those results released in September might not be enough for the FDA to go ahead. At least that was my take-away when they made that announcement.

  101. 101.

    WhatsMyNym

    August 9, 2021 at 3:49 pm

    @cleek:

    be sure to read the comments on those Amazon masks!

    Yes read the reviews, but take some with a big grain of salt (there may be no link to that person’s health issues)

    ETA:  make sure you got the real product, not some cheap knockoff from another country.

  102. 102.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 3:50 pm

    PG&E: “Nope, nothing to see here. Let’s move on to the recovery.”

    PG&E Corp. inspectors had found no problems with power lines, power poles or the tree linked to the Dixie Fire raging in Northern California, according to a summary of inspection records the utility released Monday.

    Under investigation in connection with the fire, which has become the second largest in California history, PG&E said its crews conducted routine inspections May 13 of the two power poles located where the fire started and found nothing wrong. The last previous inspection was in December 2016.

    “These inspections did not result in any findings that required corrective action at or between poles 908 and 909,” the utility said.

    Similarly, PG&E said a Jan. 14 inspection of the tree that may have sparked the fire found no problems. The utility also released a picture from 2019 of one of the power poles “and the tree that PG&E believes to be the tree of interest.”

    The tree was due to be inspected again Sept. 21.
     https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article253374053.html#storylink=cpy

  103. 103.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 9, 2021 at 3:54 pm

    I’ve also been getting KF-94’s through Amazon. Hard to sort through the dizzying array of options. I went through a couple of 10-packs of black ones for first re-entering society post-vax. Anticipating that I might be out and about more in coming months, I just ordered a larger pack of “3D masks”. The flat ones I have tend to get sucked in slightly on the inhale sometimes, so I’m going to see if the 3D’s are a little more comfortable.

    I belong to a chorus which disbanded rehearsals in March 2020. The director has been surveying how people feel about resuming this fall. I tentatively said yes, but I’ll wait to see how they do with requiring vaccination, distancing, masking, etc, and how bad Delta is in PA by then.

    It’s a largely over-60 crowd, so they’re pretty cautious. And spooked about the chorus in Seattle who was decimated by Covid early in the pandemic.

  104. 104.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 9, 2021 at 3:57 pm

    @WhatsMyNym: If you want to be depressed about the state of humanity, check out “crocheted masks” on Etsy. Like this one.

    They get lots of comments on how breathable and comfy they are.

  105. 105.

    geg6

    August 9, 2021 at 3:58 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
     
    The term you and SFAW are looking for is sedition. Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government. However, because of the broad protection of free speech under the FIRST AMENDMENT, prosecutions for sedition are rare. Nevertheless, sedition remains a crime in the United States under 18 U.S.C.A. when the speech indicates an imminent threat.

  106. 106.

    Mary G

    August 9, 2021 at 3:59 pm

    I ordered some N95s for when I have to go out, which will be seldom.

  107. 107.

    Ken

    August 9, 2021 at 4:00 pm

    @trollhattan: “And you can trust PG&E, because it confessed to killing those 84 people in 2018, and would a dishonest company do that?”

  108. 108.

    karen marie

    August 9, 2021 at 4:02 pm

    If you’re Amazon averse, I bought KN-95 masks directly from United Medical several months ago.  Unfortunately, right now they’re sold out but you could check for backordering.

  109. 109.

    Bex

    August 9, 2021 at 4:07 pm

    @cain: Heard the other day that a person I know had had the lambda variant and spent 19 days in hospital.  He’s not young and has underlying conditions, but I’d be surprised if he had not been vaccinated.

  110. 110.

    WhatsMyNym

    August 9, 2021 at 4:08 pm

    @trollhattan:
    Left out a bit…

    He also observed a fire on the ground near the base of the tree. The troubleman manually removed the third fuse and reported the fire, his supervisor called 9-1-1, and the 9-1-1 operator replied they were aware of the fire and responding. CAL FIRE air support arrived on scene by approximately 1730 hours and began dropping fire retardant and water. In response to a CAL FIRE request, PG&E de-energized another section of the Bucks Creek 1101 12 kV line. In a 2045 hours status report, the CAL FIRE website stated the fire was approximately 1-2 acres; later that evening CAL FIRE reported the fire had grown to 10-15 acres and ground resources had problems accessing the area.

  111. 111.

    Falling Diphthong

    August 9, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    In March, lack of a mask was an asshole indicator.

    But over June and July we reset the norms. I’d argue that a number of those unmasked people have been fully vaccinated since around the end of June, and are not concerned about the Delta (or Lambda) variant enough to have returned to voluntary masking at the store.

  112. 112.

    James E Powell

    August 9, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    Just now on CNN, the anchorperson – IDK her name, sub for Tapper – interviewing Dr. Ashish Jha of Brown University about anti-vaxxers. She pointed out that the whole medical world is saying get the vaccine, but “politicians” and “lawmakers” are spreading disinformation.

    She would not say Republicans, she would not say FOX, she used deliberately vague words. Why do you suppose she did that?

    Until the press/media say Republicans are causing this, Republicans will not get blamed by the massive, low information public. Until Republicans are blamed, they will not change their behavior. This chaos is going to get spread by the “both sides” press/media until most people just assume it’s the fault of whoever they didn’t vote for last time.

  113. 113.

    Ksmiami

    August 9, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca: we’ll May he get it again and drop dead for all I care

  114. 114.

    IdahoGoatGirl

    August 9, 2021 at 4:18 pm

    I recently purchased masks from Amazon, they are N95’s made by Kimberly-Clark.  They are very comfortable and have the head straps.  There are 50 masks for $55.48, I am having trouble figuring out how to provide a link.   I chose the Kimberly-Clark brand as it is a name I know from their other products.

    I made about 400 cloth masks to give away at the beginning of all this and the lastest version I made had a pocket to add a filter.  What I liked to use for the filter is the non-woven polypropylene material which you can purchase at Amazon as well.   It is the same material used in the reuseable grocery bags, so you can cut one of those up if you just need a couple.   I made double layer cotton with a double layer of polypropylene material.   You can wash the polypropylene a few times, but avoid the dryer.   That being said, I have a pile of my cloth masks with inserts around here and we are using the N95’s on the rare occasions we leave home.

  115. 115.

    Soprano2

    August 9, 2021 at 4:24 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: We had choir last year, with masks and spaced on the stage. It was a weird experience, to say the least, but as far as they know there were no infections from being in choir. We know a lot more now than we did when that choir in Seattle was infected.

  116. 116.

    JPL

    August 9, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    @James E Powell: Truth be known, she didn’t have to say Republicans when talking about anti-vaxxers , or anti-maskers.

  117. 117.

    Another Scott

    August 9, 2021 at 4:38 pm

    ObOpenThread. So, I’m doing some reading and see:

    Thus, none of these defects are expected when ScN, YN, or LaN are at thermodynamic equilibrium with N2 gas at 0 K. This is a purely academic statement since (a) N2 is not in the vapor phase at 0 K, and (b) more importantly, kinetic barriers at low temperature inhibit the equilibrium to be reached. Nevertheless, the zero temperature energetics represents the starting point for discussing finite temperature effects.

    Yes!! It’s important to keep reality in mind when doing calculations!!1 They are an important tool, but reality has the last word.

    :-)

    That is all.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  118. 118.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    August 9, 2021 at 4:40 pm

    @Another Scott: “I reject your reality and substitute my own!”

  119. 119.

    Citizen Alan

    August 9, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    @Bex: How can we be up to Lambda?!? What the hell happened to Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, Iota, and Kappa?!?

    On a related note, how weird is it that can remember the Greek Alphabet from being a fraternity pledge in 1987 but not half my current passwords?

  120. 120.

    MomSense

    August 9, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    I’m just really angry at the unvaccinated.  We all need to be able to get on with our lives and that requires people to be responsible and considerate – seemingly impossible for too many Republicans.   I’m also processing the IPCC report which is devastating.

  121. 121.

    Ksmiami

    August 9, 2021 at 4:50 pm

    @MomSense: I didn’t want to get out of bed after reading it.. oh well Crows will take over next I guess

  122. 122.

    MomSense

    August 9, 2021 at 4:53 pm

    @Ksmiami:

    Same.  ?

  123. 123.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    August 9, 2021 at 4:56 pm

    @Ksmiami:

    Crows will take over next I guess

    Cole’s already on that.

  124. 124.

    James E Powell

    August 9, 2021 at 4:57 pm

    @JPL:

    I guess we disagree – courteously. The message is “Republicans are making this pandemic worse and making it last longer because they want chaos.

    We have to say Republicans and we have to use their electeds’ names.

  125. 125.

    Mallard Filmore

    August 9, 2021 at 4:59 pm

    @Percysowner:

     

    They are planning to come back and pass legislation preventing businesses from requiring masks for employees or customers and again, preventing businesses from requiring employees be vaccinated. The Governor vetoed everything, but the legislature overrode the veto. Ohio, soon to be the next Florida!

    Oh, what I could do with this …
    “Nudity required! Clothes forbidden! Anyone properly masked up is exempt.”

  126. 126.

    JPL

    August 9, 2021 at 5:03 pm

    @James E Powell: I didn’t hear that segment, but I have seen her interviewing conservatives before, and she is prepared and tough.   I hope that I’m right, and most people can understand the bullshit that the republicans are spreading

    Maybe I’m just naive.

  127. 127.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 9, 2021 at 5:07 pm

    @Percysowner:

    Next the state legislature passed a law forbidding the Governor or the Department of Health to order shutdown, masking or requiring vaccination. They also forbade municipalities, townships, counties, etc. from implementing mask requirements or proof vaccinations. They are planning to come back and pass legislation preventing businesses from requiring masks for employees or customers and again, preventing businesses from requiring employees be vaccinated. The Governor vetoed everything, but the legislature overrode the veto. Ohio, soon to be the next Florida! 

    Oh hooray!  These murderous motherfuckers!

  128. 128.

    James E Powell

    August 9, 2021 at 5:08 pm

    @JPL:

    I hope that I’m right, and most people can understand the bullshit that the republicans are spreading.

    It’s possible I am overreacting because I almost never watch news, but I want them to say Republicans, not politicians or lawmakers or congress or the other terms that allow for a “both sides” interpretation.

    I fervently  hope you’re right, but Republicans have been spreading their bullshit without being held accountable for it most of my life.

  129. 129.

    Spanky

    August 9, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    Oh look! Another idiot sucking up msm bandwidth:

    (CNN)Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson has now had Covid-19 twice, but when asked by reporters Monday whether the Ravens have spoken to him about getting vaccinated, he was noncommittal on vaccines.

    “I just got off the Covid list, so I’ve got to talk to my team about this and try to see how they feel about it,” he said. “I’m going to keep grinding as much as I can about it, and go from there.”

  130. 130.

    raven

    August 9, 2021 at 5:12 pm

    My bride had a scare and the test came back negative. . .not the rapid one.

  131. 131.

    O. Felix Culpa

    August 9, 2021 at 5:20 pm

    @raven: Congrats on the negative test and positive doggie results!

  132. 132.

    NotMax

    August 9, 2021 at 5:26 pm

    Mentioned again for those (such as your truly) who do not care for ear loops. While there are specifically created loop extenders which turn those type of masks into the strap behind the head type, and while they might not appeal to everyone, have found these, repurposed, to be useful (as well as for all intents and purposes infinitely adjustable), and cost next to nothing. No need to unVelcro them when removing the mask, just set ’em and forget ’em.

  133. 133.

    debbie

    August 9, 2021 at 5:28 pm

    @raven:

    They were and then they weren’t.

    My doctor requires paper masks. If you walk in with only cloth, they’ll give you a paper mask to use with.

  134. 134.

    debbie

    August 9, 2021 at 5:31 pm

    I get my masks from United Medical Supply. Unfortunately, they seem to be out of stock on everything except Level 1 masks.

  135. 135.

    gene108

    August 9, 2021 at 5:31 pm

    @MomSense:

    There’s not much to process in the IPCC report. We squandered the last 30 years to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and the bill’s coming due.

    On the bright side, with global birth rates declining, we should see a decrease in human population in 50 to 100 years, which should put less pressure on the environment.

    Africa is the only continent that’s experiencing high birth rates still. Invest vigorously in family planning there and population growth will reverse faster.

  136. 136.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 9, 2021 at 5:34 pm

    @Soprano2: What was your rehearsal space like? Also masked and spread out I presume?

  137. 137.

    Bishop Bag

    August 9, 2021 at 5:38 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Hey Bill, haven’t been following the site much, but about a week ago you mentioned coming up to the Alabama Hills to photograph the Persiad? Meteor showers…

    The Owens Valley is completely full of smoke now from the Dixie Fire. I would not recommend coming up here if you are planning on doing any star or meteor photography for the time being. We are currently unable to see either the Sierra or the White Mountains from Bishop.

  138. 138.

    Ksmiami

    August 9, 2021 at 5:46 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: hmm I guess the term “murder of crows” is apt.

  139. 139.

    trollhattan

    August 9, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    More dipshittery.

    The union representing California state correctional officers plans to fight vaccination requirements for its members, according to a Friday memo.

    The California Correctional Peace Officers Association said in the emailed note to members that it would use “all the tools at its disposal,” including legal appeals and labor negotiations, to fight two recent efforts to mandate vaccinations.

    The union is not contesting a July 26 order from Gov. Gavin Newsom that said most state workers must get vaccinated. That order gave workers an alternative to vaccination by allowing them to get tested regularly and to wear a mask at work.

    A federal overseer of medical care inside California prisons asked a judge on Thursday to require vaccines for everyone coming and going from the prisons, including employees, without the exceptions in Newsom’s prior order.

    On Friday, the state Department of Public Health ordered all employees working at health care facilities to be fully vaccinated by Sept. 30.

    The union memo, which CCPOA’s executive council sent in an email to members, said that since most prisons have health care facilities, the requirement would apply to its members. The memo says the union received no advance notice of Friday’s requirement from the state.

    “CCPOA believes both of these orders exceed what is medically necessary to slow and prevent the spread of COVID inside the institutions,” the memo states.

    The union plans to ask for the state to halt the Department of Public Health’s order on the grounds it violates the employees’ contract. The union will seek a temporary pause to the order until it can meet and confer with the state over the issue, according to the memo.

    Public Health Officer Tomás J. Aragón said in last week’s order California needed to take more aggressive action to slow the spread of the delta variant of the coronavirus.

    The state is in the midst of the “fastest increase in COVID-19 cases during the entire pandemic with 18.3 new cases per 100,000 people per day, with case rates increasing ninefold within two months,” Aragón said in the order.
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article253378123.html#storylink=cpy

    Perhaps goes without saying that Covid galloped through the state prisons. Mom of one of my kid’s friends is a nurse at Folsom Prison (no idea if she plays guitar) and dreaded going there before there was a vaccine, because covid patients were all she dealt with.

  140. 140.

    StringOnAStick

    August 9, 2021 at 6:53 pm

    I’m from Mess County (Grand Jct) and never plan on returning.  It was red neck when I was a kid and worse now.  I have two wonderful friends who still live there, last spring he tried to buy parts at an irrigation supplier and they refused to serve him because he was wearing a mask.

    my RW Bircher dad still lives there, marinating in FOX all day at age 89.  It’s pretty clear that he lied about getting vaccinated and thinks his better than N95 cartridge mask will save him.  My evangelical wing nut sister the retired nurse keeps an eye on him, and I’ll get she’s not vaccinated either thanks to FOX and church.  I can’t even talk to him anymore because his FOX intake means he’s always on an anger hair trigger (more than usual, which was always bad).

    He’s planning on flying to CA to help a nephew convince his very senile older brother to agree to a home, but he hates his brother because he’s a lifelong liberal and these trips focus incredible abuse on the older brother.  I figure delta is going to sort this out and at this point and after decades of his being a narcissistic bully to everyone, I just don’t care anymore.

  141. 141.

    James E Powell

    August 9, 2021 at 6:57 pm

    @JPL:

    Following up. I watched Wolf Blitzer and he & the reporter doing the story made it plain: Republicans are making things worse in order to pander to Trump’s base.

    Thank you Wolf & the other guy. I unclenched my fist.

  142. 142.

    JPL

    August 9, 2021 at 7:03 pm

    @James E Powell:?

  143. 143.

    Brachiator

    August 9, 2021 at 7:21 pm

    Coming late to another great thread.

    We need mask mandates, now, and widespread distribution of higher-quality masks to school children, soon. We also need more vaccine mandates and more use of vaccine passports to enter places, but that’s not going to fight Delta today or in the next few weeks.

    I am not certain that “higher quality “masks” are that big a deal.

    I was looking at some old, pre-pandemic stories about how about a quarter of the population refused to get flu vaccines, typically for stupid reasons.  And so with Covid, health officials may need to deal with the reality that a certain fraction of the population will be unreasonable vaccine resisters and no amount of coercion or persuasion will work for them.

  144. 144.

    StringOnAStick

    August 9, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    @Brachiator: That’s likely true.  That means that sooner or later all of us will get it because these refusers means it’s never not going to be out there simmering somewhere.

    I’m going to try to put catching it off for as long as possible, in the hopes of better post-exposure treatments being developed.

  145. 145.

    Brachiator

    August 9, 2021 at 7:46 pm

    @trollhattan:

    “CCPOA believes both of these orders exceed what is medically necessary to slow and prevent the spread of COVID inside the institutions,” the memo states.

    Based on what medical evidence?

  146. 146.

    Scout211

    August 9, 2021 at 7:56 pm

    @Brachiator: What medical evidence you ask?

    Apparently everyone is entitled to their own medical evidence. //

    Like DeSantis:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/09/us/florida-desantis-school-mask-mandates/index.html

    DeSantis’ executive order says school mask guidance from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention “lacks a well-grounded scientific justification.”

  147. 147.

    Another Scott

    August 9, 2021 at 8:00 pm

    ObOpenThread – AlJazeera:

    [ link to YouTube video]

    English football clubs can be bought by criminals to launder the proceeds of their crimes, an Al Jazeera undercover investigation has revealed.

    The investigation delves into the murky world of club ownership in English football and exposes how rules are being abused.

    […]

    The Men Who Sell Football, by Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit), shows middlemen telling undercover reporters how they can hide a criminal’s money and identity behind offshore trusts and submit fraudulent due-diligence reports to English football authorities.

    It also shows how the same middlemen use “dirty tricks” and can obtain new passports for the criminals – with new names – to deceive football authorities.

    […]

    This is my shocked, shocked face. I would assume that similar things are going on with UK real estate.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  148. 148.

    Seanly

    August 9, 2021 at 8:10 pm

    In a spot of good news RE: masking, my Fortune 500 employer just sent out an email that only fully vaccinated employees may return to offices or travel for work (though that’s greatly reduced from pre-pandemic levels anyway).

    They have fully embraced work from home, ditching lots of corporate rentals. My own office went from a floor & 2/3 to just the full floor. The floor they kept was only about 1/3 for cubicles – the rest is meeting spaces, quiet rooms, lunch & public areas. Other engineering firms in the Boise area are back at 100% capacity.

    I do miss collaborating – especially with my junior staff. I used to do little sketches of this or that for the bridge and just can’t do that in Teams or Bluebeam very well. However, I more prefer not to catch Covid even if I am vaccinated.

  149. 149.

    Felanius Kootea

    August 9, 2021 at 8:25 pm

    @gene108: 

    Makes no sense. Africa’s birth rate has declined over the last few years to 32 births per 1000 people in 2021. Africa’s death rate in 2019 was 274 per 1000 people. We’re not talking replacement levels.

    European Union/OECD birth rate per 1000 in 2019 was 9.3 and death rate per 1000 people was 10.4.

  150. 150.

    Brachiator

    August 9, 2021 at 8:32 pm

    @Scout211:

    What medical evidence you ask?

    Apparently everyone is entitled to their own medical evidence. //

    Yeah. When I asked that question, it was with a ton of anger, bitterness, frustration and snark.

    I hate the stupidity of the anti vaxx crowd.

  151. 151.

    Citizen Alan

    August 9, 2021 at 9:09 pm

    @gene108: 

    On the bright side, with global birth rates declining, we should see a decrease in human population in 50 to 100 years, which should put less pressure on the environment.

    Just wait until the Supremes get done with Roe v Wade and Griswald, and we’ll see what happens to the US birthrate.

  152. 152.

    Percysowner

    August 9, 2021 at 9:48 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Yep. I’m keeping a fair amount in my bank account so that when my granddaughter hits adolescence I can take her to 1) a state that still allows birth control or 2) another country i.e. Canada,etc that will give her a long term implant, assuming Alito, Thomas, Kavannaugh, Gorsuch and ACB wil declare that a) abortion is unconstitutional for the entire country and b) birth control is really abortion and against the Constitution, which is really not that far a reach.

    I HATE them so much. My one hope is that we box Trump in enough that he will give up the evidence that he took money for each and every appointment he made. because why else would he give someone a lifetime appointment so they can “shape” i.e. ruin the country. My second biggest dream is that he kept evidence that McConnell and other Repubs were in on the grift, because why not make money when money is there to be made.

    I know, I’m waiting for my properly fitted tin foil hat to be delivered.

  153. 153.

    rikyrah

    August 10, 2021 at 1:59 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I feel you

  154. 154.

    206inKY

    August 10, 2021 at 3:31 am

    Amen! I remain convinced that I owe my life to the unknown jackel who alerted us to the existence of N95 masks in the comments way back in January 2020, a good two months before any hint of a mask shortage. I bought two boxes and survived on it for a year when very few folks in Kentucky were masking.

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