President Biden addresses the nation at 3:45 pm Eastern time today.
In the meantime…
BREAKING: The Republican Party has deleted a page from their website that pointed out that Trump wanted to pull out of Afghanistan.
— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) August 15, 2021
This seems like important information!
In 2018, Trump got Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar released from prison.
In 2020, Trump’s Secretary of State met with Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar.
In 2021, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar is set to become the President of Afghanistan under Taliban rule. pic.twitter.com/pbdus8aeZx
— No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen (@NoLieWithBTC) August 15, 2021
Will the mainstream media make that clear, or even mention it? My guess is ‘no’.
Hasn’t started yet.
I had to turn C-Span off. They had some (alleged) US veteran haranguing Biden for being a coward. Enough, dude.
I wish we could just have music while awaiting a major speech. I don’t need to hear from Earl in Indiana that Armageddon is underway, or the hate dripping from that vet’s voice. Some of our fellow Americans are ugly, ugly people.
I guess like Adam, I’m astounded that all these people care so much about Afghanistan all of a sudden!
ugh, started the video and had to see the talking face of GWBush — god, what a horrifying awful man. Had a disgusted, rage-inducing reaction to his evil face, a gorge-rising flashback to the post-9/11 era.
fuck the GOP and its enablers right to hell
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: Did you just add the media feed? Because I didn’t see it before and put up a dedicated feed in a separate post. Which I’ll pull as we don’t need to of them.
@zhena gogolia: A vehicle for hate and derision. Piggybacking onto those poor Afghanis’ tragedy.
@M31: I changed it to the white house version that won’t have the talking heads.
Biden’s addresses nearly always start way late, so there’s no need to listen to blah-blah-blah.
@WaterGirl: fyi Adam had this post down below
Watergirl’s post got hung up in the scheduler. And I’ve manually gone in and published it. I also just put up a separate post with an embedded live feed from The White House’s YouTube page for the address.
@WaterGirl: Thank you. I despise talking heads filling airtime.
Let us know once Biden arrives.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: I emailed her directly about it so she knew I went in and did this.
our elite media is such an astounding failure (if you think their job is providing reliable accurate information)
CNN website heading: “The President will address the crisis in Afghanistan as he faces mounting questions about his administration’s apparent failures.”
Ugh. I’m done with that site for a while.
I just put on local news to see how they were going to cover Fred, and Biden. I saw the same gd helicopter that I’ve seen dozens of times before. I switched channels.
it’s been great seeing reprint tweets from all kinds of GOP officials lambasting Biden a few months ago when he wasn’t leaving Afghanistan as fast as Trump’s timeline wanted
and the new President of Afghanistan being sprung from a Pakistani jail by special Trump request is really a *chef’s-kiss* detail
Liking Biden’s stern tone. It’s a good speech, and informative.
All the place names — guy does not seem to have dementia!
“Lurching. Into the third decade of conflict.”
This is a lecture to the slaphappy media circus as much as to citizens and the world.
Biden definitely should be (privately) giving our intelligence services the riot act for giving him bad info on the state of the Afghan military.
This is a breathtakingly quick collapse of the government we gave hundreds of billions of dollars to.
“American forces should not be fighting in a war, and dying in a war, that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves.”
@Elizabelle: Now laying out that if the Afghans won’t fight for themselves, after the billions we poured in in material/training, us staying there longer wouldn’t matter.
Now talking about he spoke with the former Afghan president, on how his administration needed to clean up the corruption in his government, and it didn’t happen. Like, idk wtf else to say at this point. Rescue as many as we can.
I want a large-scale humanitarian effort, if possible. Can we airlift more people out?
It’s a good speech.
So far he sounds very confident and sure of himself. Not apologizing and not equivocating.
@Elizabelle: “How many more generations of Americans need to die? How many more headstones do we need in Arlington cemetery?”
Every single worthless talking head, both print/visual media, need to fucking answer that. Honestly, they don’t. Fuck them. Fuck’em forever.
@Leto: Yes. Ghani’s ears, at a minimum, are burning.
“How many endless rows of headstones at Arlington National Cemetery?”
I am liking The Biden Doctrine (TM).
@Leto: Agreed. They’re news desk and keyboard commandos. Controversy and tragedy merchants. Nothing more.
I am thinking this failed president is making a hell of a lot of sense.
@Suzanne: Maybe we could do that effort in Haiti?
@Suzanne: If the Taliban lets us. One heat seeker up the tailpipe of a plane and that shit will be done.
@Immanentize: Yes, agreed. That is pretty much all I want to use the military for at this point.
Can I just say it? I must have compassion fatigue because in the pre-speech talking heads, I got tired of hearing ‘heart-broken’. If the Afghan people are ‘horrified’ that the Taliban is taking over, well, they live in a nation awash with guns. So why not just shoot them?
@Suzanne: Honestly? Probably not. Part of what helped in Vietnam was the fact they had open water access, so we had the Navy stationed off the coast with access to scores of helicopters. Afghanistan is landlocked and requires heavy transport to come in to evacuate. Biden is laying out now how we’ve secured the airfield and taken over air traffic control. We’ll get out as many as we can, but it’ll never be enough. Same as Vietnam.
biden just addressed your desired point.
@Immanentize: Agree. I hope he mentions Haiti, because they have suffered so much.
@Immanentize: Yeah. We need to do a few threads about Haiti.
Didn’t read, but saw some article today about the country being uninhabitable longterm, with all the cataclysms.
I don’t understand why Haiti always gets hit, and the Dom Rep seems to come through fine. Same island. Is there some horrible factor of placement and geography? Or just carrying too much of a population, that is poverty-stricken, in insufficiently safe buildings?
@Immanentize: @Suzanne: We’re already doing that. And we’ve done that for decades now.
It’s like the past 20 years never happened! What fucking asshats!
The buck stops here!
@raven: I wonder if it might be in the Taliban’s interest to let as many “dissidents” and disaffected out as want out. Stick with the population that remains, that might be more malleable or, actually, vulnerable.
@mrmoshpotato: CNN. Cilizza Narrative Network.
Controversy. Conventional Wisdom. …
Anyway, that chyron is many levels of suckitude.
I am going to watch this speech again. Puts steel in one’s spine, and it’s intelligent and compassionate, albeit realistic.
this is a forceful speech
Adam, What did you think?
@raven: No; I know that they commandeered ships, packed’em full, and set out into the open where the Navy picked them up and helped get them to the Philippines. Vietnam had advantages that Afghanistan doesn’t.
And with that, his speech is over.
can’t wait for the ‘why didn’t he thank Trump’ whining
oh gd nbc showing the same plane again. ugh
He finishes and the press is screaming questions at him. Audio off.
I saw that too. I’m sure we just needed 6 more months and everything would be fine.
Seriously, reading through all the critiques, no one seems surprised the Taliban are winning, they only thought it should take a few months. The implication seems to be that pundits wanted the Afghans to put up a fight before losing.
I wish he had added “the Afghani people” to the list of those we ask God to protect.
Twitter is still letting me copy tweets!
@Elizabelle: Best part about it was: “The buck stops with me.” He actually means it, and it’s a fucking rare thing to hear. As we know, night and day difference.
@zhena gogolia: I love David Rothkopf’s tweets.
Wish he was not an outlier WRT intelligent content. And critical thinking, knowledge of history, etc.
@M31: Who cares. Seriously.
A very good speech.
This is a courageous man – not in the sense of facing imminent physical danger, but in the sense that he knows he is going to catch endless shit for it, from deeply dishonest actors, and has decided he doesn’t give a damn. He is going to do what he knows is right, and which should have been done a decade or more ago.
I once again give thanks that he is our President.
Local CBS is covering the governing. Our hospitals are stretched thin, because people are having procedures they didn’t have before.
I had to switch from the local NBC, because they were covering what the president didn’t say.
ha I guess the governor started speaking at the same time as President Biden, knowing that the local networks wouldn’t cover him. haha I hope Stacey is our next governor.
Sorry to be ignorant, but who is Fred?
@JPL: I wonder if that says we don’t have journalists and film crews in place for current footage.
Maybe it’s laziness. Maybe it’s the press not able to broadcast as easily.
It’s 12:55 am in Afghanistan. Dead of night.
Joe Biden is the President we voted for.
@SiubhanDuinne: Tropical storm. We’re suppose to have between four and six inches of rain overnight. I do hope that the thunderstorms are not severe though. Slight chance of tornados, so that’s good news.
Good day to stay home.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Looks like I picked the wrong week to buy that vacation home in Kabul
I adored and still adore Obama, and Biden was not my first choice for the Dem nomination, but… is it just me? I’m starting to think that Biden might be a better president.
@SiubhanDuinne: The tropical storm.
@Elizabelle: IMO they are showing the same clips over and over is because if it bleeds, it leads.
Good speech, I’m really glad he’s the one in the office right now because it sure sounded like he doesn’t give a fuck what the media thinks about this.
God, 20 fucking years.
Ben Rhodes, on MSNBC, laying out clearly that the Biden we just saw was the same Biden from 2009. He recognized diminishing returns and is drawing the distinct line saying no more. This is the same Biden I remember from Obama’s memoir.
Mike in NC
The media will deny that they ever heard of this guy George W. Bush, who along with Cheney and Rumsfeld decided to give the Middle East a nice case of Trumpian ‘chaos’ which we’re still dealing with 20 years later. Republican hypocrites will piss and moan for a few days, and the Sunday TV talking heads will try to have as many of them as possible lined up for an interview. A week from now it’ll be “Afghanistan, what is that?”
And he didn’t give them a chance to ask stupid questions this time.
@JoyceH: We are lucky to have had both Obama and Biden. They face different challenges.
Biden is way more effective for having observed Obama’s attempting to work with Republicans. No illusions. Faster learning curve.
@JoyceH: same. Biden doesn’t care what the journalists, the white nationalists, and the republicans in Congress think. That alone gives him extra powers.
@Jinchi: I have yet to see pundits acknowledge that the Taliban will have the same problem the national government had. They are not strong enough to dominate all the tribes of Afghanistan.
It might actually be a good thing that few Afghani troops died to salvage a national identity that does not exist. In the coming war civil war against Taliban excesses, perhaps their tribal loyalties will prove stronger than an artificial national one.
@topclimber: That’s a really interesting take.
Yep. The most effective way to deal with the media is to refuse to play their game.
@zhena gogolia: A response to that tweet:
I’m just disgruntled because I know the Afghan story is not going to turn out the way I WANT it to turn out – with a home-grown all-woman insurgency against the Taliban.
I listened to NPR’s coverage of this for a couple minutes and immediately thought “our media has learned NOTHING”.
They’re saying Republicans aren’t attacking the policy of withdrawal (they are), but they’re (literally the press) saying that Biden was incompetent. Literally using Republican words and phrases when talking to their correspondents. “What are Democrats saying here about Biden’s incompetence with the withdrawal” and “It’s notable that Biden didn’t apologize for the withdrawal or talk about how the execution should have gone differently”, like THAT was the important thing.
Sigh. Our media sucks and continues to suck.
It’s geography. This earthquake was about 30 km from Port-au-Prince. The border to the DR is about 100 km away and the population centers are much farther than that.
(https://seismo.berkeley.edu/map/index.html <– you may have to scroll the map and zoom in on Haiti).
The large quake in 2010 was even closer, pretty much in the city itself.
I caught President Biden’s speech on my way home from work, on WTOP radio (Washington DC). Biden said “I stand squarely behind my decision,” and gave a clear and comprehensive explaination of why he did so. This was twenty minutes of excellent communication.
@JoyceH: @Elizabelle: I think it also helps that Biden had Beau serving in these wars, so it resonates even more*. On his visits to Arlington, he can personally see the totality of the folly of this entire endeavor.
*absolutely not subscribing to the “unless you have a family member there” thinking, same as when R’s sudden discover they have women/LGBT members etc; just thinking about the whole of his experiences on how it might affect his views.
I switched from CNN to MSNBC when the talking heads started, and caught Nicole Wallace in the middle of saying something about how the vast majority of the American public agrees with Biden while the vast majority of the DC-based journalism class does not.
@Jinchi: Thank you. I have to learn up on Haiti. I’ll find that article and pop its URL in here.
@topclimber: I’m not sure that’s the case. The Taliban are really just the Mexican drug cartel. Selling opium to the west could give them enough money to pay off everyone, something the previous government could not afford to do.
I mean, isn’t that just the economic and ruling model of most gulf nations?
@JoyceH: There was a note in NPR’s coverage as well “Well, the press and politicians in DC are all furious but we don’t know how normal people actually feel about it.”
@JoyceH: The DC-based journalism class are so well known for sending their children into the military.
@MisterForkbeard: Call or email NPR and tell them this is why you don’t give them money.
A lot of their commentary absolutely sucks. I don’t even like their voices any more.
The hourly recap is OK, if I’m in the car.
I’m proud of the president. He did the stand-up thing and all of these media whores should not only know it, but should acknowledge it.
@JoyceH: Biden got a front row seat for everything Obama had to deal with and that the Republicans threw at Obama, and he learned from it. Also, he is an old, genial white guy, so he can get away with a lot more. As a black man, Obama would have been crucified by the media and Republicans for withdrawing from Afghanistan, and they would not have let it go. This will likely blow over for Biden in a few weeks, if not sooner, and will have no impact on 2022 or 2024 (except that maybe some people will be grateful for Biden ending our involvement.)
But to your larger point, while the political landscape has changed a lot since 2009, I think that Biden’s thirty-six years in the Senate, and on the Foreign Relations Committee, gave him experience that Obama simply lacked and could not draw on, and I think that is an advantage for Biden.
Also, Obama was often the smartest guy in the room, but he had a lot of not-so-smart advisors (e.g., Rahm Emmanuel) that he relied on, while Biden knows that he is not the smartest guy in the room, but has surrounded himself with people who seem to be very capable. I think that is also an advantage.
To paraphrase Nicole Wallace:
A large majority of Americans will agree with Biden.
A large majority of the Beltway courtier press will disagree.
The press is part of the war industry in this country.
@Elizabelle: Seconded. I also think we responded Obama’s audacity of hope back then. We are now a meaner nation. We need a no-nonsense grandpa who loves us despite our glaring flaws but still won’t put up with our malarkey. And we got one.
There’s a strong possibility outside countries paid off top military leaders and politicians to turn things over to the Taliban.
There are stories of the local Afghan National Army units wanting to fight, but stand down orders were issued.
Reason they couldn’t do it was because they were stealing all that US cash for themselves. Idk, maybe the Taliban are just better administrators… /sad sigh
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
So, gather up your jackets, move it to the exits
I hope you have found a friend
Closing time, every new beginning
Comes from some other beginning’s end, yeah
Without bad endings, shit would never end, and this shit had to end. Even if you accept the neocons geopolitical and strategic assessments, beating our heads against the wall for twenty years wasn’t achieving those goals.
@WaterGirl: Had to turn off Richard Engel ranting that Biden was in a fantasy and no relief was happening.
Nicolle Wallace, who has been holding back tears, and seething with anger asks “Is there a centralized office where people can call for help?”
How about giving Mr. Biden a chance to do what he says he is going to do?
Trae Crowder has some thoughts: https://twitter.com/traecrowder/status/1427349499710623768?s=20
Biden has not said a word so far about what the US is doing to help the people who came to the US aid who are now trapped in Afghanistan.”
Tweeted out while he was still talking.
@Jinchi: That’s an important part of it – no Dominican cities are as exposed to quakes as Port au Prince which sits right on the fault. Part of it too is that Haiti went down a terrible political path which has had all manner of consequences for public health, infrastructure, and the like.
Earthquakes that level cities in other parts of the world get mostly shaken off here in CA because of this. Dominican Republic has much better infrastructure, because they aren’t trapped in the cycle of poverty and violence that Haiti is.
Richard Engel is pissed, and that’s understandable. It’s a horrible situation, and it’s personal to him because he’s reported from there for ages and has friends and colleagues there. He’s focusing on that.
@Martin: And something stops the tribal groups from doing the same? Do you think it stopped the national government?
More broadly, your point just reinforces the notion that the Taliban cannot do it alone. They will have to deal.
With the possible exception of Iraq, the Gulf nations ARE nations, not tribal amalgamations.
I think the media whores are out over their skis on this one. I really do.
I just wish we could cut the rope on some of them.
@topclimber: Reports are coming out that the Mujadeen is protecting/recruiting vulnerable Afghans to their cause… as a bulwark against the Taliban.
I believe the procedure is “intubation”, and it’s generally not considered elective. Did your governor mention that?
@Kay: Maybe Maggs can ask Judith Miller about that one.
@Leto: There was that, but if we want Afghanistan to be independent, there needs to be more than words there. On what foundation are they building that independence when they have almost no economic foundation other than things the west sees as illicit – hosting terrorist and selling drugs.
This seems little different than throwing cops at a city with no economic opportunities and then wondering why things don’t get better, and oh, look, now all the cops are corrupt as well.
I’m not saying ‘teach them all to code’ but whether it’s stealing from Americans or selling opium, they need to have *something*.
@Kay: Everyone at the Neocon York Times can GF themselves.
@Kay: That’s pretty much it right there.
The press wants a Biden scandal and they can make it happen here. They can get eyeballs by screaming about it and it lets them pretend to be bipartisan, so there they go.
@gene108: I don’t know if you’ve read this, but here’s some of your answers: (WaPo) UNGUARDED NATION Afghan security forces, despite years of training, were dogged by incompetence and corruption
@JoyceH: A “home grown all-woman insurgency against the Taliban” could still happen. It may not start right away. This insurgency might not be armed either, but it may be all the more effective for that. After all, for the past few decades women have been fighting a similar insurgency in the United States, and they are winning.
I’m sympathetic to the Americans who were over there and have been trying to get these people out for years, but all these bandwagon-jumpers get on my nerves.
Couldn’t she at least let him finish before promoting the narrative? They make themselves the story- they’re out in front when they’re supposed to be behind. It seems like a fundamental problem, like they need to think about what it is they do. What doing that job entails.
One of the things I learned over many years of working is I periodically have to remind myself what my job is- what it is I do, who do I work for. The biggest mistakes I have made is when I’ve gotten away from the basic definitions. Everyone should do it. You veer off course.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@L85NJGT: Looking for wisdom in a Semisonic song lyric. The only reason I know that is Semisonic is that on a recent road trip I downloaded a Spotify playlist titled ’90s Pop Rock Essentials. I was in my 20s in the ’90s but was pretty much completely divorced from the pop charts – I was into Tom Waits and mid-century jazz and a little world beat at the time.
But, I knew all the big hit song and the names of all the bands. They were just in the atmosphere. What I couldn’t do was put them together – couldn’t have told you whether it was Better Than Ezra, or Third Eye Blind, or Semisonic, or one of a dozen other bands that were big back then who sang that Closing Time. So I decided the playlist was good for a road trip because a) lots of those songs are pretty catchy, b) it filled in some pop culture knowledge I was lacking, and c) it goes on for more than 6 hours so I wouldn’t have to fiddle with my phone to pull up more music while I was driving, which is a dumb thing to do because it can literally get you killed in an instant. Yeah I know, it’s hard not pick up that phone and pull up that song that would sound absolutely perfect right now, but being dead keeps you from listening to that song forevermore.
@Elizabelle: Wikipedia has Judith Miller listed as “discredited American journalist and commentator.”
Haha, good on them!
@JoyceH: Hard to say. Obama saved GM and a lot of other damage from the financial crisis, plus Obamacare. Biden saved 100,000 lives and counting via the vax drive, cut child hunger in half, got us out of Afghanistan, and will almost certainly get a great infrastructure program. Both have been superb, and of course what they could do is limited and enabled by the situation.
Ah, thanks! I knew we were in for a soaking, but hadn’t heard a word about a named TS.
Trump drastically reduced refugee resettlement right off the bat, eventually eliminating it all together.
That’s four years none of the people, who helped us there could resettle here.
And in seven months Biden is supposed to fix four years of neglect from Trump?
I think some journalists have the attention span of goldfish
It was a good speech and I’m proud of him. Not easy.
Rather than watch the post-game analysis, I put on NPR. Soon as the coverage veered into “do you see any partisan divide in criticism, any difference in the way Democrats are criticizing him versus how Republicans are criticizing him?” I flipped that shit off and listened to world outside my speeding car in the beautiful countryside.
Also, it’s nice to come to a place where many thoughtful people leave their thoughts.
@Kay: Yes, you’ve made that point before, about sticking to one’s job.
And Maggs has landed on a real issue. The Brits are wrestling with that one too.
Biden is big on not overpromising. You know they are working on this.
Maybe Maggs should ask why we admitted so few of our translators and other Iraqis and Afghanis during TFG’s administration. TFG was on a veritable jihad against refugees, quite honestly.
Gosh Maggs, maybe you could ask about that.
@gene108: They know all that. It just all boils down to:
So even if Republicans (Bush, et al.) are largely responsible for the fuck-up that was the US occupation of Afghanistan, for the press, ending that fuck-up has to be a bad thing and fortunately there is a Democrat in the White House that they can blame for it.
@topclimber: But my point is that money is what holds them together. The tribal groups are protecting their self interest, but does the formal government offer them something there? Okay, protection, but physiological needs – food, water, etc. get prioritized over security needs.
If the Taliban are better able to provide those needs – money to get food, etc. then they can use that money to hold the tribes together. This is why places like Saudi Arabia are mostly make-work jobs, so the government can take money from selling oil to the west and mostly just pay off the population. They are nations because they *succeeded* at this, but Afghanistan it’s still mostly aspirational.
You’re right that the Taliban may not get enough out of this to pay people off sufficiently, which will produce the same result of the tribes turning on them. Or they might, and we get a narco state. I mean, if not for hosting al Qaeda, it looks like they were in pretty good shape to succeeding 20 years ago.
My point is that the US never provided a different path, other than indefinite subsidies by the US, which they happily took so long as we offered it. But it was never enough to build a self-sustaining alternative to what the Taliban offer.
I watched on MSNBC, and the second it was over Brian Williams was approvingly calling it “a consequential speech.” Hate to say it, but BriWi doesn’t seem to suck quite as much or as often as he used to.
QFT. Maybe there should be an annual “What Is Your Job Day” — a paid holiday to think about what your actual job is, reconnect with who your actual customers are, etc. There needn’t be any shame in it; most of us lose sight of the fundamentals from time to time! :)
@SiubhanDuinne: Might be being in the MSNBC orbit.
NBC parent: often gagworthy.
@JoyceH: Biden is more responsive to the electorate. He’s faster to move left when the electorate has moved left. At the same time, he’s faster to move right when the electorate moves right.
We’re getting him at a time when the electorate is moving quite strongly to the left. I mean, the same year that Obama got elected, CA (a very blue state) voted to ban gay marriage. The electorate was in a very different place.
@SiubhanDuinne: Brian Williams has been humbled, and he may have learned from this. Not everybody does.
WaPost’s ombudsman, Margaret Sullivan: The Afghan debacle lasted two decades. The media spent two hours deciding whom to blame.
@Geminid: Williams appeared to have a Road to Damascus moment on Jan 6. His commentary that day was genuinely pissed and he’s been pretty inoffensive to “our side” since.
It’s good in a LOT of situations. It’s called job to be done theory, and its useful in all sorts of situations.
@SiubhanDuinne: Nicole Wallace, Rachel Maddow, and Joy Reid have done a very effective recalibration of ole BriWi.
Nope not just you.
If the Taliban behave as they have in the past, this is very unlikely to happen. Worse case scenario, the Taliban will prohibit any woman from participating in public life. Women must stay home and be supervised by a male relative.
In the past, there have already been targeted killings of women who worked for TV stations.
We are about to see how women react to the rulings of our near-Taliban, the right wing Supreme Court.
But before that, imagine if a president said that all female (and declared non-heterosexual) members of Congress, and all who worked for the federal government had to resign by the end of the business day.
@SiubhanDuinne: I do not sleep well and I have had his late night show on as background. I was surprised to find he is very intelligent with a great sense of humor. I was glad he was the one respond first.
@Elizabelle: very good article. Unfortunately the people who need to see it, won’t. Still needed to be said though.
@zhena gogolia: David Brooks has a kid in the IDF.
Also, Haiti has spent its meager resources on protection from hurricanes, the more common threat.
So funny that it’s a theory. I could have saved ten years where every time I was in some big knotted up mess at work it never ocurred to me that none of it was my job and that was the problem :)
Who do you work for? That guy. Why did he hire you? Fix his problem. Anything that isn’t that isn’t the job.
Good speech – I heard most of it while out getting some groceries.
I like that he specifically said that the only agreement in place was to get out by May 1. That trying to stay beyond that risked an escalation of the conflict and a choice of ramping up a lot or getting out while being under attack (or leaving that implication).
I’m sure the warmongers are not wanting to talk about that particular sticky wicket. But I’m also sure that I have no interest in hearing them bloviate about how Biden is Doing it wrong™.
Now to read the comments…
@Brachiator: Nothing ever changes, until it does.
Brian Williams recently had a softer than softball interview with Andrew “Bell Curve” Sullivan, so news of his total rehabilitation may be premature.
Very proud of President Biden today. He is a real leader and did the hard thing and took responsibility..
I think they are both good in their own ways. President Obama had a different situation at home to work through that was very necessary to answer and massive resistance because he is who he is. No one will ever be a perfect president, other than one may be very good for their time. They can never be perfect because they are pulled in way, way too many directions and for way, way too many reasons, many of which are ridiculous. They, like all of us are human. OK the last guy really doesn’t fit in that last sentence… They will make mistakes, they will make decisions that we don’t agree with, they will make decisions that we can’t understand because we don’t have the info they have. What we hope they do is look at situations and make the best long term decisions possible. (Once again, that’s an impossible level for the last guy.) No one will ever get them all right, no one will make all the same decisions that anyone else will make. President Biden has experience in high places, with and under some great guidance and ideals, and seems to be doing one of the better jobs, because he is making hard decisions that have logical, realistic ends. I think he saw that work when he was VP and recognizes that at the end of the day, doing his best for the country is the most important thing. This job is the end of his career, he’s done far more for our country than most presidents do and that seems to be his overriding goal.
@Sure Lurkalot: MSNBC seems to be recruiting Sullivan. Joe and Mika also had him on.
@Brachiator: Haiti has no building code that is enforced. So buildings collapse on people with every earthquake, hurricane, mudslide….
@Elizabelle: Haiti is right on the fault line, as stated previously. And it’s a poverty stricken nation because it’s one of the only former colonies that had to pay reparations under onerous conditions to the country they defeated for their independence, a debt finally repaid in 1947, 122 years after it was imposed. Debt to foreign governments and banks was immediately reinstated by the corrupt Pappa Doc and his family. As long as they had to service those debt payments, that money wasn’t available for education, infrastructure, public safety, etc. In the absence of reliable government, NGOs of all types basically provide the services, and with little to no oversight. It’s a country in a bad geographic location that’s been abused by more powerful countries, including our own, it’s entire existance.
@MisterForkbeard: I long ago stopped listening to anything news-related on NPR besides Morning Edition and ATC (and even those two shows are pretty lame). The rest of it—One-A, On Point, On the Media, the other show that sounds like One-A, that other show that sounds like On Point—are just wretched.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I missed Williams, but I’ve been running errands all day and as I’m in and out of the car and flipping through the dial, MSNBC has been mostly Woe Is Us all day. NPR actually brought a bit more objectivity from what I’ve heard, including some bracing cold water on the entire Afghan project going back the Bonn Agreement— which if I’d ever heard of it, I’d forgotten about– of December 2001.
@CaseyL: I’m not sure that he’s going to get endless crap (from people who matter) about this speech. Talking heads will try to make something of it, but they’ve tried to make something of him going home on the weekends.
The talking heads look for weakness. They didn’t find it with Biden today.
He did the right thing, for the right reasons, and told us about it. He will be helped by this, and the country will be helped by this.
FasterLonger learning curve.
FIXITFY. See my comment at #143
Thank you. We, the electorate, have changed and we have been in crisis which gives Biden the ability to push for changes he never could have without the pandemic.
I realize this is my pet peeve and it goes against the progressive conventional wisdom, but I am soooo tired of hearing about Biden learning from Obama’s failed attempts to work with Republicans. Jesus Christ Biden was co-crafter of Obama’s legislative strategy. And I feel like I’m taking crazy pills because everyone seems to have forgotten all the fucking blue dog Senators we had to deal with who were to the right of Republican Senators Snowe and Specter. Obama was negotiating with Democrats as much as Republicans, but he gave cover for the Dems by using conciliatory language. Also anyone who did any phone calling or door knocking then knows that even Democrats wanted the parties to work together.
If we hadn’t lost the Massachusetts Senate seat we would have passed good climate change legislation. it tells you something about the electorate that we couldn’t follow liberal lion of the Senate Kennedy with a Democrat in Massachusetts.
Agreed. I can’t remember the last time I had regular NBC on for anything. I’m thinking those numerous post-debate things he did with Joy, Nicolle, and Rachel must have had a beneficial effect on him.
I had a performance review at the post office once and the reviewer wanted to give me a good review. She was telling me why I was getting a good one. Okay, so I feel I have to tell her that this review is overly optimistic. So funny- she said “I’m doing the review”, like, you fucking idiot did you think YOU were doing it? I’m gonna tell her what’s wrong with me BEFORE she tells me, because that’s how far ahead I am :)
Ha! Wrote my #152 response to Elizabelle before I saw your very similar comment!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MomSense: Yup. Most of the time people talk about “Obama spent too much time trying to work with Republicans!” they’re talking about Joe Lieberman, Byron Dorgan, Kent Conrad and Bla,nche Lincoln. I could go on. A lot. I have. Several times. The Zombie Legend won’t die. Even here at the relatively Obama-friendly Balloon Juice.
And what you and Martin said about the electorate. The electorate gave Obama Joe Lieberman et al, then Speaker Boehner, just as they gave Biden Sinema and Manchin, and we’ll see what they do in 2022. To paraphrase (IIRC?) Mo Udall, the People will speak. The bastards.
Who owns the majority of the media?
Because they are always going to be beholding to the money that buys the ink or bytes, who pay for the content that they want, that provide the money/control/direction. News is what is written/broadcast as faux has shown for decades. Truth has almost nothing to do with it.
What’s the date that we officially got out of Iraq?
I don’t recall.
(Trick question – Biden has said combat missions will finally end in Iraq by the end of 2021.)
This day will be similar, soon.
People’s lives are too hectic, especially during the pandemic, to waste time thinking about stuff halfway around the world that doesn’t affect them.
@Suzanne: and doesn’t deforestation and desertification make flooding/mudslides worse, so there are environmental reasons why the DR does better as well? Seems like there are endless circles of problems in Haiti that stem from decade upon decade of poor policy, not just unlucky geography. Haiti threads would be great to help understand the interconnected levels of suck, because I always end up getting so overwhelmed when I try to understand the place that I just end up at “bless their hearts”.
ETA and that policy has definitely been written by rich nations a lot of the time, as satby says.
@Geminid: I made a point on Twitter that a lot of the Taliban are illiterate save for Quran indoctrination. They will have forced spouses that will have more and better education than their “spouses”. I can’t see all that education going to waste. I do foresee a resistance, however subtle, forming in the women of Afghanistan. That’s my hope anyway.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m already trying to beat back the narrative from the youngs in my world who are disgusted with Democrats. It’s two fucking Democrats. I’m ready to tell them that if they want change maybe they should move to WV or one of the other Red states and create an artisanal colonies or some bullshit and build up a Democratic voting bloc.
My son tried to tell friends that half joking and they told him he was a colonizer. Fuckem.
Fault lines; it’s sandwiched between two. Port-au-Prince is right on top of the one that runs along the south coast.
except it does.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Cenk and a bunch of other idiots primaried Blanche Lincoln!! They actually thought a true progressive could win – in Arkansas! WTF They bloodied her up so we could end up with Boozman? #bunchafuckinbullshit
I think there are more negatives then positives with electing an elderly person President of the United States but Biden having that old man “zero fucks to give” vibe to him is refreshing.
@Argiope: Information at the link in my previous comment about the “decades of poor policy”. Corruption flourishes in the absence of a functional society, and the USA is in no position after having TFG in office to give Haitian voters the stank eye for their choices. The problems in that country started at it’s inception, and were partially the fault of Thomas Jefferson.
Anyway, I guess this is where we lose all of the never-Trumper Republicans, since those people were mostly neocons. Bye bye.
I’ll ask the same question of you, who owns the major news media?
Which means of course that I am not arguing with you in the least.
Anyone else’s phone demanding you sign up for Twitter to read someone’s retweet?
In the Before Time, when I was still working, one of our govt customers had a screen saver. The heads of two guys filling the screen, looking out, and asking “What exactly is it that you do here?” Maybe everyone should put that on their machines.
@ MomSense. Ah right. The Blue Dogs. Joe Lieberman. How soon
weI forget. I was sorry to see Blanche Lincoln lose.
Re Haiti: I would love if we raised some money for Doctors Without Borders or another good NGO. Was one Partners in Health or something like that?
Also a thread or two on Haiti.
I wish we treated Haitians as favorably as we do Cubans. They are, in many ways, a more deserving set of refugees.
@catclub: In the everything – is – connected – to – everything – else sense, sure.
In the, “I’ve got to get Johnny and Janie off to school, don’t forget their masks, and remember to sign the permission slip. Then off to my part time job at the hospital. Then pick the kids up and get them to afternoon daycare. Then off to my part time job at Chipotle. Then call Mom and see how she’s doing with her physical therapy. Then pick the kids up, make dinner, then study for my exam the next day in my on-line course…” world, not so much.
As Mayhew says, people only have so much bandwidth.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MomSense: People ask “Why don’t we fight like Republicans!” Republicans spent fifty years focusing on the long game, and the broad one, every office from the municipal and county level up to the White House, every branch at the federal level and in every state. I always think of Charlie Pierce’s report of the (IIRC) county agriculture commissioner race in Iowa where the candidates all took care to state they were “pro-life”. We supercharge the Cult of the Presidency, then give our Presidents six months, then we ask “Why did we bother voting?”
It does, but not in the same way or timeframe, given it’s a pandemic and not a relatively small combat zone halfway around the world that has little to no economic effect upon their lives, especially now that we are leaving. It’s a country with limited world power, limited natural resources or business to depend upon which is the reason it’s such a mess in the first place.
@mrmoshpotato: My browser was doing that, as was zhena’s. Open the tweet in a private/incognito tab and it should work. (You might need to do a refresh.)
Fight the Jack!!1
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
For anyone who cares what Jeff Toobin has to say about anything:
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Yes, something has changed today.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mrmoshpotato: not just the phone, I look at twitter through Safari on my laptop and I’m getting that message. Sometimes I can just close it, sometimes not. I can’t seem to follow link to other accounts.
Good reminder about Doctors Without Borders. Thanks.
Unfortunately, I don’t know about the other organization.
@mrmoshpotato: zhena gogolia has been
complainingasking about that all day.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Weird they didn’t have him do an on-camera op-ed.
As a wise man once said, Fuck ’em!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I could read this tweet, though, which contains more insight what happening in AFG than anything I heard on MSNBC today, including one guest who actually used the phrase “cut and run”
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That’s hilarious. What a jerk off.
Yes. I thought it was just me screwing something up, because I always think that.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Glad it know I’m not going crazi(er).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MomSense: They knew a progressive couldn’t win. I didn’t know he had been engaged in active sabotage for that long.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: guessing an audit is likely out of the question..
and if you think about it, its the perfect time to steal… we have a new election that concluded; so coming into the process there are new people who are getting acquainted with how things work, meanwhile a raging pandemic ensues. If anyone is reporting on this kind of wholesale corruption, who has time to read it much less effect any change, much less any consequences.
for all we know, we did everything right on our side and this is an instance of the Afghans stealing from each other.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That is so true.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Totally off topic for this thread but I was very late to thread yesterday when you asked for singer songwriters. I suggest John Stewart.
@Elizabelle: We used to, after the earthquake there was a special program for Haitians to stay in the US. TFG ended that status and sent them back. MSF were our emergency clinic if one of our volunteers got injured while we were in Haiti. Save the Children had a huge presence.
Editing to add the incredible World Central Kitchen (Chef Andre)
Medicines Sans Frontiers
@SiubhanDuinne: LOL! I do the same thing! I always think “it’s my fault” or “I did something wrong”. I blame my Irish Catholic school upbringing in the 50’s and 60’s. And Joe Biden.
One night, driving home from a photoshoot, as I was driving over Kanan Road from the coast to the Conejo Valley, Gold came up on my playlist.
Sorry, today, Joe can only be fully, and completely to blame for Afghanistan…
And COVID-19, and Dump humpers not taking the vaccine, and it being hot in summer and cold in winter, and couscous not being able to decide if it’s a pasta or grain.
@mrmoshpotato: ha! Actually, dropping trou during a live stream with non-consenting folks is a crime. A federal crime. So Garland should prosecute Toobin?
Includes a photo of them all sitting on the floor in the hold.
Amen to that.
There should be people being escorted to their respective parking lots in several Virginia & Maryland locations this afternoon. Probably many people.
Some of the ones that are left should be working for the swift transfer of former president Ghani & his cohorts to a location on the coast of Cuba for a thoro debriefing.
@Kathleen: They teach Jewish guilt at Catholic school?
This is true. But I know volunteers who helped build housing with hurricanes, not earthquakes in mind.
Could Garland bring charges, or would it have to be one of the parties that got an unwelcome look at his trouser snake?
I would bet not, but perhaps they see an advantage in getting rid of them that way & not having to waste time & bullets on them, which is what they probably have planned.
On the other hand, a huge expatriate community in rich countries is a guaranteed long term source of instability. Since they were one themselves, they understand this.
They can also slip in a lot of spies and counterparties in the departing mass. People have mixed loyalties, they will have vulnerable family left behind in country, numerous possibilities.
How the fuck is it a failure when you’ve only been involved for 6 months? It’s not like they got into it or did anything. It’s all carry over from the previous administrations.
But the press has been waiting for some kind of scandal so they can drive reads. They need ad money.
@Matt McIrvin: eh Tom Nichols and Jennifer are pretty balanced on this…
@Nora Lenderbee: Jewish guilt is actually shame, in front of your parents, family and community. Catholic guilt is guilt, btween you and God.
Yup. At least he’s not around to bitch and moan about a catastrophuck that he caused.
@mrmoshpotato: Well, the Taliban transition seems to have been smoother and less violent than the American presidential transition.
@mrmoshpotato: Seems like a pretty clear public (dis)interest case.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t know that I agree with you. Yeah, they get some cash, but by acceding to the Taliban, they’ll have to live with the risk of getting some body part chopped off at any moment.
I don’t believe cash was their primary motivation.
@satby: Thank you. All good organizations. And the newest one, Chef Jose Andres.
@Nora Lenderbee: It’s like I put it regarding alcotourism: the Germans invented it, the Brits perfected it.**
In the current instance, the Jews invented guilt, the
Friday-fish-fressing altar-boy-diddlers“One Holy Catholic And Apostolic Church” weaponized it.
(Bonus round: The most significant difference between a Jewish mother and an Italian mother is the difference between Ess ess, mein Kindt! and Mangia, mangia!)
** When the then-West Germans discovered that Czech beer was as good as anything they brewed at 20% of the price, hordes of them would pour over the border on Friday afternoon to be poured back over by the Czech border guards on Sunday night. Later (pre-pandemic) the stein was passed to the Brits, who’d book dirt-cheap flights to Prague on LyinAir or QueasyJet and a week later stumble out of the plane home utterly unaware of where they’d been in the interim...
@mrmoshpotato: Small mercies. Do not miss him one bit.
He evaded earthly consequences. Alas. But at least, no microphone for him.
McMaster was on Snooze Hour blaming Biden.
Damn good day not to turn on the TV.
I have some conflicting thoughts on all this. On the one hand, my son’s best friend from high school is West Point and a major in Special Forces with two Bronze Stars from his two tours in Afghanistan. He’s obviously being fast tracked by the Army to be a general eventually, as his next assignment once he gets back from the secret mission in Iraq that can’t be too secret since I know about it is one of the military attaches to the State Dept. He’s a better than good soldier, something any country needs. On the other hand, the performance of actual US generals and former generals in the last two decades has been disgraceful. Lincoln fired a lot of generals, and is about the last US President to do so (FDR promoted the ones he liked over the heads of the ones he didn’t. Truman fired MacArthur and never heard the end of it). Worth noting Lincoln won his war.
@mrmoshpotato: On my laptop I lost the ability to follow retweets today I think. My ad blocker is probably keeping twitter from telling me what they’d like me to do, which is fine with me.
This makes it rather less distracting since I now have just four bookmarks for them and no opportunity to go down rabbit holes. Could be seen as an improvement
P.S. Well I see this has been rather thoroughly covered now.
@glc: Thanks for another confirmation nonetheless. :)
@sab: No, Catholic guilt is between you, your family, the rest of the world, and God.
I have also been having Twitter issues. I don’t belong but do check around a dozen Twitter feeds regularly.
I was assuming Twitter is extorting me to join.
@JoyceH: I honestly have waited most if my adult life for Joe Biden to be President! Glad we’re both here to see it. A good man, full of knowledge, compassion, tragedy and joy in life! Who else should be President in this time?
Barack Obama is also a good man, smart, compassionate and full of the joy of Life! He was and remains the President we needed when we voted for him. Joe Biden is doing the job we need him to do now. Neither is definitively better…. it’s not a zero-sym game.
James E Powell
Same here. I blame the Sisters of St Joseph generally and Sister Mary Laurentine in particular.
Wouldn’t that generate some Nomad action in the GQP??
@Bluegirlfromwyo: That is perfectly said!
Joe has zero fucks to give the assholes who want it to go on forever! I am so here for it!
@SiubhanDuinne: No, you’re right! I think he learned a lesson he won’t soon forget. And his garden where he grows his fucks has been empty lately!
@Cacti: who would have thought that one-half of the training wheels for vp nominee sarah palin woild be the most pres. biden friendly person in the lamestream media?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That’s my though, I voted for Biden because one of the things was he said he would get us out of that mess, and he did. It wasn’t perfect, so fucking what? It’s done.